EV Digest 5717
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) OT - Battery powered device running since 1840
by "Harry Houck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) 007 GE motor
by "Clif Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Zivan NG3 charger output voltage flexibility
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 007 GE motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 007 GE motor
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Advancing CW was Rattling noise, lurching motion
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Drag on an electric motor
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re:Article on the Tesla.
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: A123 Specs (was: Rich Rudman's PHEV project (?))
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Drag on an electric motor
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: More on SepEx
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Voltage Measurement Circuit for Basic Stamp2
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of car.)
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Put another one on the road
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Drag on an electric motor
by "David J. Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) heater wiring question
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Drag on an electric motor
by "David J. Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Drag on an electric motor
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Drag on an electric motor
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) WKTEC on The Daily Show
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Drag on an electric motor
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by Jim Walls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: EV AC
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Put another one on the road
by "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Zivan NG3 charger output voltage flexibility
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Put another one on the road
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Matt Graham's 'Joule Injected' Featured Dragtimes.com Car of the
Month!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) RE: Drag on an electric motor
by "David J. Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Let me clarify that it has to be able to REACH 60MPH (2) and get there
in a reasonable amount of time (1).
-Mike
On 8/2/06, Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Aren't 1 and 2 mutually exclusive?
>
...
> > 1) Keeps up with traffic
> > 2) Top speed 60MPH
> > 3) Range approaching 100miles
> > 4) Was new and warrantied
> > 5) Had the luxury, options, and trim levels of a car that would
sell new
> for
> > $25k
Mutually *inclusive*, unless you consider "keeps up with traffic" to
be quick, while "top speed 60MPH" could mean glacial acceleration!
I'd consider a $40K EV a reasonable initial price, even if I can't
afford it, but the list would have to include:
6) Has a roof, whether hard or soft
7) Average to above average safety (air bags nice but not neccessary)
8) Seats > 2 (or at least has the carrying capacity of an EV1)
9) Variety of charging inputs, Avcon optional
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
> > spending $8,000 or more on a conversion and only having 20 miles
> > of range is not a solution, just a hobby.
>
> That depends on what your needs are. If you drive less than
> 20 miles a day, then it's a solution.
> (I didn't say >the< solution. ;-)
Absolutely! For instance, I specifically designed my EV with a short
range to keep it light and peppy. Its specific mission is to get me to
and from work, which is about 8mi each way.
One of the big costs associated with having a second vehicle is the cost
of insuring it; if my EV saves me 1-1.5 tanks of gas in the primary
vehicle (wife's minivan) per month, then insuring it is free. Driving
it costs about CAD$0.37 per day in electricity, but since I charge at
work as well as at home, my costs are half that. With gasoline hovering
around CAD$1.20/litre (= CAD$4.54/US gal) this makes operating the EV
cheaper even than commuting with my ICE motorcycle!
Even EVs that don't push the envelope of what is presently possible
either range or performance-wise can still be perfectly acceptable
solutions to the needs of some (probably many) of us, though it is quite
true that they won't necessarily work for everyone.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some electrifying trivia.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oxford_Electric_Bell
and the PDF with illustrations,
http://ppp.unipv.it/Collana/Pages/Libri/Saggi/Nuova%20Voltiana3_PDF/cap5/5new.pdf
"The Oxford Electric Bell or Clarendon Dry Pile is located in the foyer
of the Clarendon Laboratory (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarendon_Laboratory ) at the University
of Oxford ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Oxford ). It was
set up in 1840 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1840 ) and rang almost
continually after that. As of 2001 (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_of_2001 ), it was still ringing,
though nearly inaudibly."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just took the front battery box and the ev-1 controller out of the 007. The
battery box is still solid. I want to hook a 12 volt battery directly to the
GE motor to see if it operates. There are four terminals marked A1, A2, S1,
and S2. A1 and S1 are connected by a metal plate. A1, A2, and S2 all have
heavy cables connected to them. My question is which cable do I hook to the
positive battery terminal, which to the negative, and what is the other cable?
Thanks,
Clif
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have a fellow EV'er who is trying to get his orphan conversion
set up. He has found a used (low usage) Zivan NG3 charger for
$500 that he says is for a 120V battery pack with output current
of 22A. My friend is planning for a 96V pack, but may decide to
go with a 120V pack instead, for a number of reasons. So looking
at http://www.zivanusa.com/NG3BatteryCharger.htm in the table, I
see that the above charger matches up with what's mentioned in
the WUla column, model code F7 PH. I'm not certain what the W
means, but the rest looks like constant voltage ramp-down at
end-of-charge, and then hold constant current for some time, and
the `a' probably means go to float mode, if I recall. The
question is whether this charger could be set up for a 96V pack.
Considering all the model codes for this charger, each with their
own nominal battery voltage, I would say the answer is no. I
know I bulk charged someone else's 108V pack with my 96V K2, but
don't know if the 96V K2 could handle the finish charge phase for
a 108V pack, or if it would be out-of-range for adjusting the set
screws (it was a long time ago).
Thanks for any info,
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Clif
No idea how it's hooked up now but I'd seperate the other cables before doing
the 12 volt test. Leave the metal jumper between A1 and S1 or make a new
jumper for it. Attach neg - to A2 and Poss + to S2 and she should spin up if
in working order. Reverse the two "A" terminal wires for reverse direction.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Clif Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I just took the front battery box and the ev-1 controller out of the 007. The
battery box is still solid. I want to hook a 12 volt battery directly to the GE
motor to see if it operates. There are four terminals marked A1, A2, S1, and
S2. A1 and S1 are connected by a metal plate. A1, A2, and S2 all have heavy
cables connected to them. My question is which cable do I hook to the positive
battery terminal, which to the negative, and what is the other cable?
Thanks,
Clif
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can connect A2 and S2 to + and - or S2 and A2.
Since you are reversing the Armature and field at the
same time (A1 is the armature connected to S1 the
field - the motor will only run in one direction with
this bus bar connected, most likely the brushes are
advanced for this rotation). You could connect A2
directly to the negative ring terminal and then
connect a temporary short cable to S2. Connect
positive to this cable to avoid sparking on the motor
terminal (assuming you don't have a big switch to
break the connection to the battery).
So,
A2 to negative
S2 to short cable then to positive (it will arc when
you touch them together)
or
S2 to switch (high current switch, 50A or more), then
switch to positive.
--- Clif Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just took the front battery box and the ev-1
> controller out of the 007. The battery box is still
> solid. I want to hook a 12 volt battery directly to
> the GE motor to see if it operates. There are four
> terminals marked A1, A2, S1, and S2. A1 and S1 are
> connected by a metal plate. A1, A2, and S2 all have
> heavy cables connected to them. My question is
> which cable do I hook to the positive battery
> terminal, which to the negative, and what is the
> other cable?
>
> Thanks,
> Clif
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
I'm not sure if I browsed far enough through Judebert's webpage,
but the comm/brush pics I saw were, I think, taken *before* the motor
was installed in his EV and began exhibiting the rattling/lurching
behaviour under power.
That is true, Roger, and an excellent observation. I'll see if I can
open it up and have a look.
The lurch is extremely minor, not like the head-snapping lurch of an ICE
when you lug the engine, but I was expecting glass-smooth.
Thanks,
Jude
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 1, 2006, at 4:01 PM, David J. Hrivnak wrote:
Has anyone tried this?
I don't know, but I know I 4wd Subaru Justy was converted to electric
power in the back and ICE up front.
Do I need to have a neutral in the FWD? Can an EV
motor spin without applicable drag or will it exhibit significant drag
unless it is physically disconnected from the wheels?
A typical DC motor will not have any significant drag. Permanent magnet
motors will have more but EV size ones are not that common. The need to
disconnect will be more of an issue of motor rpm.
Motors have a range of redlines but something between 4500 rpm and 7000
rpm is about EV size stock ones can handle. So you would want a motor
that won't blow when using the ICE at freeway+ speeds and at the same
time have enough torque and cooling to power the vehicle around town.
The simple answer is you need a motor that is larger than required,
both so it can operate with taller gearing needed to keep the max rpm
down and so that it can drive around town without a low gear and not
overheat. Now, if your EV range is less then your battery back is
lighter and run time shorter and you need less of the over-sizing to
make it work. If you can disconnect the electric motor from the wheels
you can gear lower and have city only EV mode and use a smaller motor
too.
Any thoughts and
advice would be appreciated. Thank you
The home built hybrid is an idea that is popping up on the list more
often now. I would think that starting with a 4wd vehicle and
converting one end to electric is the most practical way to go. You
will also need to consider the power steering and power brakes in EV
mode if your vehicle is equipped with them.
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Boy the author is very left of center. He would be very happy in
Joseph Stalin's world, no corporations, and you could do anything you
want for the environment and the people, a real utopia. : )
On Aug 2, 2006, at 2:10 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: August 2, 2006 10:24:25 AM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Another take on the Tesla
Hi Folks
Be aware that this author is definitely left of center.
Here-
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/
2006/08/02/notes080206.DTL
Mike Swift
Two things only the people anxiously desire—bread and circuses.
Decimus Junius Juvenalls
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See, we've already got a range of opinion. These are closest to my
requirements for a $40K EV:
> > 3) Range approaching 100miles
> > 4) Was new and warrantied
6) Has a roof, whether hard or soft
7) Average to above average safety (air bags nice but not neccessary)
8) Seats > 2 (or at least has the carrying capacity of an EV1)
9) Variety of charging inputs, Avcon optional
The nice thing about "new" is that I could get a car loan for it,
instead of a second mortgage, like I had to do for my conversion.
That's important enough to bear repeating: nobody will give you a car
loan to convert an EV. You'll have to put something more valuable on
the line, like your house. It's one of the scariest things I've ever done.
I'm carrying a family, so I need seating for two adults and three kids.
I need to be able to charge anywhere, especially home and work. And a
range of 100 miles would make me comfortable enough to go anywhere I
normally go, even to visit the parents in Deland or Daytona. (If I have
to travel more than an hour with the whole family, it's an exception.)
Jude Anthony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The only advantage i see to welding directly to the battery itself is its
relatively cleaner and can handle higher heat environments without coming
disconnected. I think some people forget that welding is based on resistance,
so by adding tabs your using resistance to make a connection. Where solding
you are using heat to make a connection and not basing the materials used to
connect batteries on resistance. After all, you can't weld copper, so you wont
be using any copper battery bars with a welder, the only way you can do this is
with a soldering iron.
Maybe doing a test to see which method is better should be put into motion.
Connect up 6 cells with the welding method and 6 cells with the soldering
method and through some trial tests see where you attain better results. I
think the results would speak better for themselves than arguing one way or
another. later
Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
After extensive research, imho, tab welding is most of the time INFERIOR !
-welding contact are not numerous (2 to 4)
-welding contacts are small (spot is 0,5 mm diam circle)
-welding contacts are WELD.... ok it's seem strange to write that but what i
mean is that a welded contact is by definition a poor contact as the
resistance welding process use this poor contact resistance to make the hot
spot...
I find on some detailed messages than failures from soldered pack (R/C) are
not from the soldered part but from the tab welded to the cell which became
to hot under high curent > failure.
The tab is the weakest link, let's take an exemple:
+ contact of the cell have a surface area about 22mm2 (7mm circle)
connecting a tab with 4 welded spot give a contact surface of ~ 4 X 1.5mm =
6mm2 which is near 1/4 of the total contact area available !
Heating the cell with internal damage don't happen if the soldering technic
is well and quickly done (1 second is not enough to harm the cell)
Now i understand why R/C competitors are soldering directly cell to cell
using silver/tin based solder.
this said a 7000 cells soldered pack is going to be a pain...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: A123 Specs (was: Rich Rudman's PHEV project (?))
> > So *why* is welding superior?
> >
> > The Dell battery pack I took apart had four weld spots on each battery
> > terminal. I built a simple welder but couldn't seem to reproduce the
> > results. I was at first under the impression that soldering would get
> > the batteries dangerously hot, and an explosion would be possible. But
> > if not, I don't see why one wouldn't solder instead. We don't weld
> > resistor leads together...what's different about batteries?
>
> Don't know for sure, but depending on what material the cell ends are made
> out of, solder might not stick.
> I've had this problem in the past (long past) with NiCads.
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reference to the homemade hybrid Suburu Justy seems to keep popping up. Is
there any other information on-line somewhere describing it?
The same could be done with a Jeep 4X4, which nowadays is more available.
Steve
"Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Aug 1, 2006, at 4:01 PM, David J. Hrivnak wrote:
> Has anyone tried this?
I don't know, but I know I 4wd Subaru Justy was converted to electric
power in the back and ICE up front.
> Do I need to have a neutral in the FWD? Can an EV
> motor spin without applicable drag or will it exhibit significant drag
> unless it is physically disconnected from the wheels?
A typical DC motor will not have any significant drag. Permanent magnet
motors will have more but EV size ones are not that common. The need to
disconnect will be more of an issue of motor rpm.
Motors have a range of redlines but something between 4500 rpm and 7000
rpm is about EV size stock ones can handle. So you would want a motor
that won't blow when using the ICE at freeway+ speeds and at the same
time have enough torque and cooling to power the vehicle around town.
The simple answer is you need a motor that is larger than required,
both so it can operate with taller gearing needed to keep the max rpm
down and so that it can drive around town without a low gear and not
overheat. Now, if your EV range is less then your battery back is
lighter and run time shorter and you need less of the over-sizing to
make it work. If you can disconnect the electric motor from the wheels
you can gear lower and have city only EV mode and use a smaller motor
too.
> Any thoughts and
> advice would be appreciated. Thank you
The home built hybrid is an idea that is popping up on the list more
often now. I would think that starting with a 4wd vehicle and
converting one end to electric is the most practical way to go. You
will also need to consider the power steering and power brakes in EV
mode if your vehicle is equipped with them.
Paul G.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Powers wrote:
SepEx can be great. It can
give you good performance over a wide range of RPM's. You can build
a single speed (shiftless) vehicle. I'd say (although I've never
compared them directly) that it can give performance similar to an AC
system - assuming they have the same power rating.
I'm afraid, this is not the case. Sepex or series or shunt or
compound DC motor - they all share the same "feature" -
commutator and brushes. That automatically limits their top RPM
(compared to AC, e.g. brushless) motors.
You sure can build single speed vehicle with SepEx or series
would motor for that matter as well. Size it (and controller)
large enough and on a tall gear it will cover your speed range.
In practice though, the torque is so giant in this case, that
in a normal tranny not meant to take such abuse, something
will likely break. Clutch slip, or if you don't have one,
strip a few teeth off the gear, not to mention wear of the
tranny shaft bearings due to abnormal side load.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While optoisolation of analog signals where drifts due to
the supply, temp and aging effects are compensated for,
are not trivial, actually quite easy to do.
For starter, download spec sheet for HCNR-200 opto coupler (from Digikey
web site) and look for the circuit on the page 10. This is
the most versatile way, and 'course not the only way to do it.
Victor
Danny Miller wrote:
Optos are not very good for isolating analog signals. The gain changes
quite a bit with temperature, mfg variations, and age/usage. I believe
a much more appropriate solution is to use an electrically isolated PIC
and a bunch of instrumentation amps to read the batt voltages and use
the opto to digitally talk to another PIC completely isolated from this
one.
Still promoting dropping the BASIC Stamp in favor of just using the PIC
BTW. $100 will get you the top-of-the-line programmer and ICD which
allows you to read everything that is going on with the chip's registers
as the actual circuit runs. Lots of forums will readily help you with
ANY project based on a PIC.
Danny
Michaela Merz wrote:
Hello Everybody:
I sort of designed a circuit to measure pack voltage with a Basic Stamp 2
. Would somebody please take at look at the design
http://www.littleriverranch.com/evbs.html
if it is feasible, if it is going to work and if it is safe. Maybe I
completely missed the idea, maybe it is going to blow up something.
Please
excuse my ignorance, but I am approaching this problem from the software
side and I don't have that much experience with a soldering iron.
Thanks for your help.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I imagine that after the X1 has had a couple years to mature like your
drag race vehicle and Johns as well that it will without a doubt be the
EV to beat.
Mike
--- Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks Mike for sharing the video. It is great to see another high
> performance EV out there busting the myths of slow EVs. I do however
> believe
> the claim was quicker than any DC powered car. That is almost a whole
> second
> slower than the quickest street bodied car. A second is an incredible
> amount
> of time in drag racing. Ask any drag racer.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 8:12 AM
> Subject: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a
> different
> class of car.)
>
>
> > Here is video of the X1 doing an 11.948 ET at 105 mph. If you
> believe
> > the trap monitor ;) Isn't that faster than 12.something? Must only
> have
> > a range of 100 miles left after a run like that....
> >
> > You may have to pause the video at the end to read the times as
> YouTube
> > truncated the video a bit. The ET is clearly visable.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvjH4QUtZFo
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/405 - Release Date:
> 8/1/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/405 - Release Date:
> 8/1/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
You can put another EV down as being on the road. I took my 58 Servicar
conversion out this evening for just over 2.5 mi. Rode smooth and quiet.
Got up to 30 mph and I think the current was down about 50 amps when I was
there. It didn't feel like I was at the top end yet and after a few more
short runs I'll try to get to a higher speed road to open it up. Its back
in the shop charging now and I plan on trying another short run in the
morning. Its running 48 volts and can peg the 400 amp meter when starting.
I put the amp meter in the motor circuit so I can watch the motor current as
I go rather than the battery circuit. I don't expect a problem with the
battery draws since they are T145s and the battery fuel gauge doesn't even
flinch when I start to move.
It's not "completed" as has been mentioned in a few recent posts, but it is
licensed, insured, and has been on the public roads. I still need to get
the bodywork finished and a paint job before I ask the EValbum to move it
out of the in progress area. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/751
John
58 Harley Servicar conversion in progress
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you for the reply and I am not sure the drag on the existing drive
train would be a problem. True one should not tow the Avalanche but it is
because of lubrication in the transmission. I was planning to idle the
motor to power the brakes, steering and AC. The idling motor would also
spin the transmission so it should be lubricated.
Granted it would not be a pure electric vehicle but should do better than
35mpg which would not be bad for a full size pickup.
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Drag on an electric motor
The hazard I see in this configuration is quite the opposite. That is if
your truck has an automatic transmission. It is generally not a good idea
to tow
an automatic. Being pulled along with the electric motor with the engine
off
would be the same as towing, as far at the transmission is concerned. I
would recommend checking the towing section of your trucks owners manual.
Ken
In a message dated 8/1/2006 7:24:33 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hello I am new to the group and have enjoyed reading all the knowledgeable
responses over the past few days. I was hoping to convert a 4WD truck to an
EV hybrid where I would drive the front wheels from electric and the rear
with gas. For in town driving I was planning to put it in neutral and thus
have a FWD EV. When I take a trip then I would shift into drive,
disconnecting the electric and have the range of my ICE.
Has anyone tried this? Do I need to have a neutral in the FWD? Can an EV
motor spin without applicable drag or will it exhibit significant drag
unless it is physically disconnected from the wheels? Any thoughts and
advice would be appreciated. Thank you
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It seems odd to be thinking about heat given the temperatures outside,
but I've got a heater wiring question. My EV will be 144 volts and I
have one of the 1500 watt heaters from EV Parts. Rods spec sheet
indicates the wiring should include a 20 amp fuse. My question is about
my options for switching the heater. At 144 volts and 1500 watts by my
simple calculations the heater will be drawing a little over 10 amps at
nominal voltage and even a bit higher when the pack sags.
I have heard that others are using a 10 amp relay with these heaters.
Is it ok to run a bit over he rated current on a relay?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you for your reply and if I am successful I will definitely share my
information with all. A centrifugal clutch is an interesting idea. I was
thinking about using two Perm PMB132 motors that look like they will fit in
the area the front transfer case would go.
For batteries I was planning to use 12 Trojan T105 batteries, they would fit
into two boxes 12"x8"x5.25' that would fit on each side of the bed. I would
loose some space in the bed but I am hoping it would be a reasonable trade
off for 35+ mpg in town.
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jude Anthony
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 11:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Drag on an electric motor
I was considering this, but eventually decided against it. Just a bit
too complicated for my first conversion. I was only considering the
common series-wound motor.
On the first, simple question, no: the motor creates negligible drag if
you apply no power to it. In fact, this is known as a "road-coupled
hybrid".
On the rest of the complication, you've got two choices: leave it
connected directly to the wheels, geared for in-town speeds; or connect
it to the tranny.
If you leave it connected to the wheels, then it'll fly apart when you
push the car to high speeds with the gas engine. If you gear it lower,
you'll need a lot more amps -- and heat -- to start from zero, so you'll
be replacing your batteries and motor more often. (Not impossible, just
tough and/or expensive.)
If you connect it to the tranny, then you have to rig some way to
disconnect the engine and motor separately, otherwise the motor will be
fighting the engine's compression when the engine is off. You could let
them both run together, and that's what my brother is planning on doing
to his Suzuki Samurai. The problem there is matching the speeds, and
the lack of an electric-only option.
And of course, the Advanced DC motors we usually talk about will happily
rev up until they fly to pieces if you apply full power with no load.
I imagine a centrifugal clutch to disengage the motor at high wheel
speeds, with a twist-throttle on the stick to control the motor speed,
and a switch to ensure that it only works in neutral. I suppose you
could rig something to send the throttle "by wire" to either the engine
or the motor, depending on the stick or clutch pedal position.
Even if you manage to get all that, and you don't mind the separate
motor controls, where would you put the batteries?
I would really love to see someone do this, though. Especially if you
provide details of how you solve the speed-matching or control problems.
Good luck and best wishes,
Jude Anthony
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Hello I am new to the group and have enjoyed reading all the knowledgeable
> responses over the past few days. I was hoping to convert a 4WD truck to
an
> EV hybrid where I would drive the front wheels from electric and the rear
> with gas. For in town driving I was planning to put it in neutral and
thus
> have a FWD EV. When I take a trip then I would shift into drive,
> disconnecting the electric and have the range of my ICE.
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm not sure a Jeep would carry enough batteries to be worth the conversion.
They are heavy and roll hard, compared to other vehicles. For a Justy...
isn't that the same car as the Geo Metro?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: Drag on an electric motor
> The reference to the homemade hybrid Suburu Justy seems to keep popping
up. Is there any other information on-line somewhere describing it?
>
> The same could be done with a Jeep 4X4, which nowadays is more
available.
>
> Steve
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--- Begin Message ---
> Thank you for the reply and I am not sure the drag on the existing drive
> train would be a problem. True one should not tow the Avalanche but
it is
> because of lubrication in the transmission. I was planning to idle the
> motor to power the brakes, steering and AC. The idling motor would also
> spin the transmission so it should be lubricated.
>
> Granted it would not be a pure electric vehicle but should do better
than
> 35mpg which would not be bad for a full size pickup.
>
> David J. Hrivnak
> www.hrivnak.com
> Personal Account WWJD?
>
What kind of mileage does an Avalanche supply stock? Seems 35mpg is a
tremendous gain, especially for a home brew - it doesn't hurt to aim
high, but what is a realistic expectation?
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm watching it now - don't know how you can see it any other way.
John Stewart and Steven Colbert, both on Comedy Central, are my main
sources of news.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I'm not sure a Jeep would carry enough batteries to be worth the
conversion.
> They are heavy and roll hard, compared to other vehicles. For a Justy...
> isn't that the same car as the Geo Metro?
>
A Jeep Compass 4x2 is rated 30mpg, the 4x4 probably a little less, and
get Kokam's very thin batteries to make a pack that mounts underneath
and doubles as the belly pan.
No, the Justy was Subaru's own little invention, look at the shape vs
the Metro and you won't see any similarity.
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--- Begin Message ---
Mike Ellis listed (among a few other things):
1) Keeps up with traffic
2) Top speed 60MPH
Then Hump wrote:
Aren't 1 and 2 mutually exclusive?
At least around here, yes. #1 requires at least 70 - minimum. 75 or so
would be better.
--
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ofc: 818-548-4804
http://home.earthlink.net/~k6ccc
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep... and that's a hassle for people who really need protection from the
sun. There are several diseases where sunlight can kill a person. Most
tinting is done for it's "kewel" factor, however.
I think that's how these companies can get by with illegal tinting on their
windows. No Gangsta is gonna drive a pizza wagon. Once folks start painting
their windows w/ matching colors, the advertising vehicles may have to find
another way to advertise. (You can see out, just not in.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: EV AC
> Another issue is that for the police officer it's an objective call.
> They don't carry transmisity meters in their patrol cars. A coworker's
> wife here in Manitoba was cited for having too dark a tinting even
> though it was within the legal limit.
>
> Of course my coworker had to go through with all the trouble of
> proving that it was legal.
>
> Police like to be able to see into cars and try to discourage tinting.
> It can be more trouble than it's worth.
>
> -Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Without the weight of the motor and all the weight further back, do you find
the front end too light.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 9:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Put another one on the road
Hi All,
You can put another EV down as being on the road. I took my 58 Servicar
conversion out this evening for just over 2.5 mi. Rode smooth and quiet.
Got up to 30 mph and I think the current was down about 50 amps when I was
there. It didn't feel like I was at the top end yet and after a few more
short runs I'll try to get to a higher speed road to open it up. Its back
in the shop charging now and I plan on trying another short run in the
morning. Its running 48 volts and can peg the 400 amp meter when starting.
I put the amp meter in the motor circuit so I can watch the motor current as
I go rather than the battery circuit. I don't expect a problem with the
battery draws since they are T145s and the battery fuel gauge doesn't even
flinch when I start to move.
It's not "completed" as has been mentioned in a few recent posts, but it is
licensed, insured, and has been on the public roads. I still need to get
the bodywork finished and a paint job before I ask the EValbum to move it
out of the in progress area. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/751
John
58 Harley Servicar conversion in progress
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck Hursch wrote:
> I
> see that the above charger matches up with what's mentioned in
> the WUla column, model code F7 PH. I'm not certain what the W
> means,
The 'W' means constant power, or taper operation during the bulk phase,
such that the charge current decreases as the battery voltage rises.
The 'U' describes a constant voltage phase (during which the current
will taper off)
The 'I' describes a constant current finish phase.
I suspect that if the NG3 can be reconfigured for a 96V pack, it would,
at a minimum, require a new EPROM.
Good luck,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
That was discussed when I began with a few local engineer friends. What
doesn't really show is that the batteries are balanced in front of and
behind the rear axel. The front end doesn't seem at all light as I drive
and I have never gotten a hint that it wanted to be a "wheelie" machine.
Also my weight is a lot of ballast to the front. Being a vintage Harley, it
is made of heavy iron. I was even surprised at how heavy the curb weight is
at 1310 lbs. without me.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: Put another one on the road
Without the weight of the motor and all the weight further back, do you
find
the front end too light.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 9:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Put another one on the road
Hi All,
You can put another EV down as being on the road. I took my 58 Servicar
conversion out this evening for just over 2.5 mi. Rode smooth and quiet.
Got up to 30 mph and I think the current was down about 50 amps when I was
there. It didn't feel like I was at the top end yet and after a few more
short runs I'll try to get to a higher speed road to open it up. Its back
in the shop charging now and I plan on trying another short run in the
morning. Its running 48 volts and can peg the 400 amp meter when
starting.
I put the amp meter in the motor circuit so I can watch the motor current
as
I go rather than the battery circuit. I don't expect a problem with the
battery draws since they are T145s and the battery fuel gauge doesn't even
flinch when I start to move.
It's not "completed" as has been mentioned in a few recent posts, but it
is
licensed, insured, and has been on the public roads. I still need to get
the bodywork finished and a paint job before I ask the EValbum to move it
out of the in progress area. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/751
John
58 Harley Servicar conversion in progress
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Congrats to Matt. His electric car now graces the opening page as
Dragtimes.com 'Car of the Month'.
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stock I get about 15 in town with my Avalanche. Most town trips are short
and a 20 mile range would cover 70% of them. We also use it as our travel
car when going out of town so rage 600 miles is very important to me.
The AV has an instantaneous fuel calculator and if I am driving and put it
in neutral, it registers anywhere between 40 and 99MPG. So if the electric
motors are driving it why would I not get that mileage around town??? I
know I will loose a lot with stop lights but am hoping I could pull at least
35mpg. The computer says it should be higher, actually.
I may loose some from the drag of the CV joints, electric motor and battery
but I hope not.
If I get good at this maybe I can tie into engine vacuum on the highway and
when vacuum drops the electrics could kick in for a boost on the hills
allowing the gas engine to run more efficiently. So may be I can even eak
out an extra 1mpg on the highway but I am not banking on that.
In an ideal situation the generator while I am running could even trickle
charge the batteries giving a little more range. But again I do not know if
that is feasible.
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Drag on an electric motor
> Thank you for the reply and I am not sure the drag on the existing drive
> train would be a problem. True one should not tow the Avalanche but
it is
> because of lubrication in the transmission. I was planning to idle the
> motor to power the brakes, steering and AC. The idling motor would also
> spin the transmission so it should be lubricated.
>
> Granted it would not be a pure electric vehicle but should do better
than
> 35mpg which would not be bad for a full size pickup.
>
> David J. Hrivnak
> www.hrivnak.com
> Personal Account WWJD?
>
What kind of mileage does an Avalanche supply stock? Seems 35mpg is a
tremendous gain, especially for a home brew - it doesn't hurt to aim
high, but what is a realistic expectation?
--- End Message ---
