--- Begin Message ---
Since we're discussing 1000 mile range EV's, I would like to throw out
some more things for out if the box ideas.
In my opinion I still feel the way to go on an electric vehicle is with
direct drive.
We have already seen the performance advantages with John and Matt's
cars.
The EV1 was also designed as direct drive.
Eliminates more components that require maintenance; transmission,
clutch, etc.
Jim Husted or others;
What kind of crazy motor designs would be applicable to a direct drive
vehicle.
Are Siamese setup's the way to go?
Does 3 smaller motors coupled together offer any advantages?
Any easy way to have a motor at each wheel and eliminate the rear end?
Any others?
Thanks;
Dennis
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C6B7BE.DAEC1F2B"
Subject: More Direct Drive Discussion
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 07:09:37 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thread-Topic: More Direct Drive Discussion
Thread-Index: Aca3vtuTVeXRpBcrRBqXKtfSZJbeZQ==
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion Group--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: The math for a 1000 mile pack
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 13:54:03 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
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RC models folks charge them 15 minutes not less.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: The math for a 1000 mile pack
> Has anyone actually seen the A123 batteries being charged in the five
minutes ?
> Is the five-minute charge even really possible ? From what i gather,
> their chargers in deWalt powertools are using one-hour charger.
>
> For a EV-sized pack you will obviously hit serious amp limits.
>
> BTW, wasnt it reported that Tesla pack is built as sort of "RAID array
> of batteries" so you can slide out individual sheets and replace them
> one by one ? With some sweat, you could theoretically change the
> entire pack in a few minutes, if its true.
>
> -kert
>
> On 8/4/06, Adrian DeLeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Let's just do a quick "proof of concept" on paper just to show it can
> > > be done(for the fun of it!).
> >
> > Assuming:
> >
> > 1) 500WH/mile
> > 2) A 6000 pound, 500KWHr pack of Kokams...
> >
> > The first 1000 miles is easy, but then you need a week to recharge. A 12
> > hour recharge would require a 220V, 190A charger! Can you say
neighborhood
> > brown-out? A PFC-20 could get you going again in just over 4 days.
> >
> > Portable nukes anyone?
> >
> > Let's look at replacing the 1600 pound lead-acid pack in a small pickup
> > with Li batteries:
> >
> > 1) 300wh/mile
> > 2) 5KW charger (23A at 220V - slightly better than a PFC20)
> > 3) 12 hour recharge time
> >
> > That means a 740 pound, 60KWH battery pack with a 200 mile range.
Upgrade
> > to a PFC-50 charger and you can top off a 1600 pound, 130KWH pack in the
> > same 12 hours for a 430 mile range.
> >
> > It looks like charging is the main obstacle here. A 5KW charger gives
just
> > under 17 miles/hour (of charging). At 10KW (think PFC-50!) it's 34
> > miles/hour. Compare that to a 5 minute ICE fillup that nets 300 miles
> > (3600 miles/hour of fueling), the equivalent of a 1MW charger.
> >
> > If you can afford the 1MW charger you can probably affort the 130KWH Li
> > pack, but I don't think it would be happy charging for 5 minutes at
4000A.
> > A 1 hour quick charge would still be over 400A with a 300V pack. I can
> > hear it now: "Your EV only goes 400 miles and you have to wait an HOUR
to
> > recharge?!?!"
> >
> > Swapping packs at the "charge station" would be much easier, but you'd
> > have to have standardized packs, quality control (don't want that pack
> > Wayland used on the track last year!), etc...
> >
> >
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 16:00:44 +0300
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: The math for a 1000 mile pack
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Indeed, i found that they are actually marketing the 15-min system
over here for RC folks
http://www.a123racing.com/html/soniccharge.html
-kert
On 8/4/06, Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> RC models folks charge them 15 minutes not less.
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 8:31 AM
> Subject: Re: The math for a 1000 mile pack
>
>
> > Has anyone actually seen the A123 batteries being charged in the five
> minutes ?
> > Is the five-minute charge even really possible ? From what i gather,
> > their chargers in deWalt powertools are using one-hour charger.
> >
> > For a EV-sized pack you will obviously hit serious amp limits.
> >
> > BTW, wasnt it reported that Tesla pack is built as sort of "RAID array
> > of batteries" so you can slide out individual sheets and replace them
> > one by one ? With some sweat, you could theoretically change the
> > entire pack in a few minutes, if its true.
> >
> > -kert
> >
> > On 8/4/06, Adrian DeLeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Let's just do a quick "proof of concept" on paper just to show it can
> > > > be done(for the fun of it!).
> > >
> > > Assuming:
> > >
> > > 1) 500WH/mile
> > > 2) A 6000 pound, 500KWHr pack of Kokams...
> > >
> > > The first 1000 miles is easy, but then you need a week to recharge. A 12
> > > hour recharge would require a 220V, 190A charger! Can you say
> neighborhood
> > > brown-out? A PFC-20 could get you going again in just over 4 days.
> > >
> > > Portable nukes anyone?
> > >
> > > Let's look at replacing the 1600 pound lead-acid pack in a small pickup
> > > with Li batteries:
> > >
> > > 1) 300wh/mile
> > > 2) 5KW charger (23A at 220V - slightly better than a PFC20)
> > > 3) 12 hour recharge time
> > >
> > > That means a 740 pound, 60KWH battery pack with a 200 mile range.
> Upgrade
> > > to a PFC-50 charger and you can top off a 1600 pound, 130KWH pack in the
> > > same 12 hours for a 430 mile range.
> > >
> > > It looks like charging is the main obstacle here. A 5KW charger gives
> just
> > > under 17 miles/hour (of charging). At 10KW (think PFC-50!) it's 34
> > > miles/hour. Compare that to a 5 minute ICE fillup that nets 300 miles
> > > (3600 miles/hour of fueling), the equivalent of a 1MW charger.
> > >
> > > If you can afford the 1MW charger you can probably affort the 130KWH Li
> > > pack, but I don't think it would be happy charging for 5 minutes at
> 4000A.
> > > A 1 hour quick charge would still be over 400A with a 300V pack. I can
> > > hear it now: "Your EV only goes 400 miles and you have to wait an HOUR
> to
> > > recharge?!?!"
> > >
> > > Swapping packs at the "charge station" would be much easier, but you'd
> > > have to have standardized packs, quality control (don't want that pack
> > > Wayland used on the track last year!), etc...
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:16:28 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Converting 2wd to 4wd (was RE: Drag on an electric motor)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I'm not sure if David has mentioned this on the list yet or not, but he is
also looking to convert his 2wd Avalanche to 4wd for this conversion.
Can someone more familiar with this vehicle comment on the parts needed
for this conversion?
I'm thinking he will need to replace most of the front end of the vehicle
(suspension, hubs, brakes, etc.) and possibly have to do some modification
to the frame.
> Thank you for the reply and I am not sure the drag on the existing drive
> train would be a problem. True one should not tow the Avalanche but it is
> because of lubrication in the transmission. I was planning to idle the
> motor to power the brakes, steering and AC. The idling motor would also
> spin the transmission so it should be lubricated.
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
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legalistic signature is void.
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 10:02:37 -0400
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Zillas not available?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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I have never ordered anything from Cloud Electric, so I don't know much about
them.
If you can, could you elaborate on the "integrity and performance" that Cloud
Electric lacked?
Just curious...
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Zillas not available?
At 11:09 AM -0700 8/3/06, Roy LeMeur wrote:
>The following is a quote from this page-
>http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/category_s/75.htm
>
>"Electric Vehicles does not carry the "Zilla" controllers. The >company that
>claims to build these is run by a person that does not >work with his Dealers
>and dose not supply product as advertized.
My opinion is that they are just sore since back when they were Cloud Electric
they did not meet our standards for integrity and performance in order to
become a dealer. From what I've heard, the name change has not changed their
approach to doing business.
And yes, Ryan is right. Our backorder list is long. Lacking affordable help the
progress to filling it has been slow. I am working on a couple large batches
now and hopefully in a few months we'll be doing somewhat better.
Thank you to all of you waiting for controllers for your patience.
-- -Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
________________________________________________________________________
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:52:28 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: More Direct Drive Discussion
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Since we're discussing 1000 mile range EV's, I would like to throw out
> some more things for out if the box ideas.
>
> In my opinion I still feel the way to go on an electric vehicle is with
> direct drive.
> We have already seen the performance advantages with John and Matt's
> cars.
> The EV1 was also designed as direct drive.
> Eliminates more components that require maintenance; transmission,
> clutch, etc.
Umm, actually the EV1 has a transmission, a single speed transmission.
Technically, so do John and Matt's cars, the single speed reduction is
part of the differential.
A drirect drive motor (one that spins at the same RPMs as the wheels)
would need to be fairly massive in order to generate enough torque.
I know of a few recent vehicles that have used multiple motors connected
directly to the wheels (or even wheel motors), but they were all VERY
expensive.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
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From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 07:18:57 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
If you want to do an EV conversion to save money, forget it. Payback period
is too long.
But money is only a personal issue.
But what about the other considerations? What about reducing your personal
pollution and your personal impact on the environment? How about helping
your country to become less dependant on oil and foreign suppliers?
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Wayne
Sent: August 1, 2006 11:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
Sorry, I guess people are getting hung up on the range statement.
Some claim good range, but then make a qualifier of 45 mph, etc. I don't
know about you all, but if I hop on the freeway (required for most traveling
in my area) I need to hit a speed of at least 55 mph. Heck, when I tow a
trailer I feel down right unsafe on the highway at only 55 MPH.
I'm not sure a true EV will be in my future any time soon. The cost and
performance is horrible. I'm fine cruising along with less power, no issues
there, but the range and economy have to be there. Part of the economy is
the cost of the conversion.
-Wayne
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:04:23 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Auto-Locking Hubs (was: Re: Drag on an electric motor)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
If you are using a FWD setup with the Electric motor connected to the
front hubs and they are Auto Locking hubs, won't they unlock when the
wheels spin faster than the motor?
If so then you could short the motor (to lock it) and the hubs will unlock
and you won't have to worry about over spinning the motor or the drag from
it.
That is, assuming that the front hubs unlock the way I think they do.
> Motors have a range of redlines but something between 4500 rpm and 7000
> rpm is about EV size stock ones can handle. So you would want a motor
> that won't blow when using the ICE at freeway+ speeds and at the same
> time have enough torque and cooling to power the vehicle around town.
> The simple answer is you need a motor that is larger than required,
> both so it can operate with taller gearing needed to keep the max rpm
> down and so that it can drive around town without a low gear and not
> overheat. Now, if your EV range is less then your battery back is
> lighter and run time shorter and you need less of the over-sizing to
> make it work. If you can disconnect the electric motor from the wheels
> you can gear lower and have city only EV mode and use a smaller motor
> too.
--
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:12:33 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Drag on an electric motor
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> I think I was not clear enough, and I beg forgivness. If you have the
> engine
> running, and tow or otherwise move the vehicle with external force, the
> transmission will have SOME of the engaging devices within it activate, as
> opposed to free wheeling. The engine would, instead of simply ideling
> while
> being towed, instead be forced to higher speed.
I don't believe this is true.
I don't normally drive an automatic, but as I recall, if you are driving
down the highway at 60 mph, and take your foot off the gas, the engine
speed will drop down to an idle while the car keeps moving at approx 60
mph.
Of course I may be wrong. As I said, I don't drive automatics all that
often.
--
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Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 10:08:37 -0400
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Stats to Ponder!
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So, will the Australian "Dateline" show be available here?
Also, digital camera video is good enough for me! Hey, I'll be happy with just
some pics!
I just love this stuff!!! More!, More!, More!!...
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: Stats to Ponder!
Hello to All,
I had written:
> ...after a nearly out-of-control crowd-roaring monstrous sideways > burnout,
> Tim Brehm powered White Zombie off the line with both front > wheels up, the
> car twisting and getting crazy mid-air...he blew up a > battery right after
> passing through the 1/8th mile marker....coasting > nearly an 1/8th mile to
> cross the 1/4 mile finish line...still managed > a 12.9!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] responded:
>Hey John!
> >I just love it!!! I assume there is going to be video! We need video
> > >
Sorry to say....no :-( We 'did' get the first race covered professionally by
world renown cinematographer David Brill from the Australian television show
'Dateline', where Tim absolutely wasted a V8 Mustang in front of 800+ people in
the stands :-) The second and third races were only caught with digital
cameras. White Zombie once again turned 12's on all its runs...even when
coasting!
One of the highlights was retrieving White Zombie more than a 1/4 mile away
with the Heavy Metal Garden Tractor in the nighttime darkness. With the
tractor's DC-DC cranking out 14+ volts keeping the twin headlights bright, and
with the CD sound system's 8 inch sub pumping the bass, I came back towing the
Zombie while Nickelback's heavy hitting 'Never Again' was playing LOUD! On the
return lane that runs past the timing slip shack then immediately behind the
grandstands, the race fans above me looked down to see the glow of the
tractor's dash fitted with its Emeter's red & green digital display, the blue
LED 'forward' direction indicator, the subwoofer power amp's LED indicator, and
the vacuum fluorescent display of the Sony CD head unit. At least 20 folks at
the top rung of the stands were dancing to the tunes, simultaneously amused at
the towing power of the electric garden tractor 'and' its outrageous sound
system...great fun!
I've been accused of grandstanding before...
See Ya....John Wayland
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: The math for a 1000 mile pack
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 11:01:22 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----- Original Message -----
From: "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: The math for a 1000 mile pack
> I too would like to know why the acceleration "SUCKS" using a 9 inch
motor.
> I hope all will respond to this email...
> Rich in Va
Ok heres's one; He needs a Zilla to get all the power he paid for.
Curti and 9 inch motors don't play well together, anyhow.
Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Curtis Hollingshead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 11:31 PM
> Subject: RE: The math for a 1000 mile pack
>
>
> > Hello.
> >
> > My EV ('93 Toyota p/u) uses 24 Trojan T-145s (144V), and has a range of
> > 50mi.
> >
> > I would love to reduce the weight as the batteries alone weigh 1700+lbs.
> >
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for a maintenance-free, light weight
> > battery solution with reasonable cost?
> >
> > I'd like to eliminate watering the batteries, and not have to worry
about
> > hydrogen offgassing, and if able to reduce the weight of my vehicle I
> > could
> > increase my range significantly.
> >
> > Also my acceleration sucks. I'm usually passed by at least 6 or 7
> > vehicles
> > before I can get up to speed in traffic.
> >
> > Is it better to hammer the pedal, draw more amps at first to get up to
> > speed, or take 'er easy and baby it up to speed taking much longer?
> >
> > I'm running a Curtis controller, and ADC 9" motor, that I thought should
> > be
> > able to have my EV screaming down the road....? So either something is
> > off,
> > or the weight in the bed of the truck is holding me back.
> >
> > Not sure how the big boys are able to achieve the tire smoking power
they
> > do.
> >
> > Suggestions/thoughts?
> >
> > Many thanks.
> >
> > Curtis.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:30 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: The math for a 1000 mile pack
> >
> > No need. Make standardized swappable packs as cordless tools.
> > You drill all day long but you don't wait for it it to recharge.
> > You stick in fresh battery and depleted one can charge slowly.
> >
> > An EV is a big cordless tool. The second pack (and the first one
> > for that matter) doesn't have to be yours, it can be leased
> > and swapped at any "gas" station quicker than it takes to refuel
> > ICE. It's only a matter of establishing infrastructure.
> > There are no technical/engineering issues.
> >
> > BTW, 500Wh/mile is about twice power consumption as average "normal".
> >
> > To cover 1000 miles you'd need "only" 250kWh pack, but it is
> > drop dead 100%DOD at the end. Just 5% bigger pack would
> > give you extra 50 miles to get to the nearest swap station.
> >
> > This has been discussed before. No one is interested to
> > implement it, people only understand dollars. No one will
> > do it even chocked to death from smog while gas is cheap
> > and available. Sometimes it's good when a govt can mandate
> > something [like this, or like ZEV], but it's dreaming.
> >
> > We do what we can.
> >
> > Victor
> >
> >
> > Ryan Stotts wrote:
> >> cowtown wrote:
> >>
> >>> I agree! But how many people have an ICE that can go 1000mi between
> >>> fill-ups?
> >>
> >>
> >> I agree, but the ice refuel time is not that big of a deal compared to
> >> a pack recharge.
> >>
> >>
> >>> EVers say "we can give you a car that goes 40mi, which is more than
> >>> most people go in a day", and the public says "maybe if it could go
> >>> 100mi";
> >>
> >>
> >> This is the resistance I constantly run into when vying for EV
> >> acceptance. A high 90 something percentage of the time, a 40 mile
> >> range EV would fit nearly every ones needs. The problem stems from
> >> the ice owners current vehicle that has the capability to and has gone
> >> on longer trips. They feel "threatened" and scared by the thought of
> >> someone taking away their gas powered car and replacing it with a car
> >> that can only go so far between the hours it has to be on a charger
> >> before it can go again. Everyone I have spoken to about EV's is
> >> terrified at the thought of "only" 40 miles of range.
> >>
> >> But the idea of a 1000 mile range Lion pack in the back of an F150..
> >> It's totally possible though right? If I had the money, I'd build one
> >> just to show the OEM's that look, yes it is possible and yes, it can
> >> be done(have done it).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/2006
> >
> >
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:00:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The math for a 1000 mile pack
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
If you go to this link:
http://www.a123systems.com/html/tech/power.html
on the right there is a graph (click on it to make it
bigger). I'll re-type the caption:
"A123 batteries can safely charge to very high
capacity in less than 5 minutes with low temperature
rise and no cell damage. This chart shows the
temperature (orange curve) of a cell as it charges at
different rates between 2C (30 minutes) and 20C (3
minutes) and discharges at 10C (6 minutes) after each
charge."
The graph show temperature ranging between 25 deg. C
and 40 deg. C. There is a voltage plot, I roughly
estimate it shows it between about 2.8V and 3.8ish V.
I don't know the details of the test involved (was
there any cooling? Ambient air temperature? Where and
how did they measure temperature?) but the curves seem
to back up the claim.
- Steven Ciciora
--- Kaido Kert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone actually seen the A123 batteries being
> charged in the five minutes ?
> Is the five-minute charge even really possible ?
> From what i gather,
> their chargers in deWalt powertools are using
> one-hour charger.
>
> For a EV-sized pack you will obviously hit serious
> amp limits.
>
> BTW, wasnt it reported that Tesla pack is built as
> sort of "RAID array
> of batteries" so you can slide out individual sheets
> and replace them
> one by one ? With some sweat, you could
> theoretically change the
> entire pack in a few minutes, if its true.
>
> -kert
(snip)
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: EV's make it to the comics , Prices on Tecky Stuff.
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 11:11:52 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 2:08 AM
Subject: Re: EV's make it to the comics
> I take you havent read Elon Musk's business plan on this yet
> http://www.teslamotors.com/blog1/index.php?p=8&js_enabled=1
>
> They ARE going for 30K, eventually, but you have to start from
> somewhere. And the math on acceptable batteries currently strongly
> suggests starting at the high end.
>
> -kert
>
> On 8/4/06, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I am not laughing. Negative message
> >
> > "you have to sell your house to get an EV"
> >
> > Actually maybe it will do some good, if tesla,tango,AC propulsion listen
> > and go for 0-60 in 8 for 30K, maybe they won't be the butt of the
> > comic's jokes.
> >
> > We have short memories:
Remember the Selecta Vision? Or whatEVer it was called. Home VCR,
top loader, that was the sise of a suitcase and weighed as much as a small
locomotive? And cost 1200 bux! Now they almost give them to you at Wal*Mart
when ya walk in.I'm running a Radio Crap DVD player that, with rebate cost
20 bux! It, unlike my #$%^& CD players, still works! I can live with the
miniture remote with a zillion buttons that really don't DO anything.
Back to the point; sorta, the new stuff is pricy, I guess we could
consider the EV an "Electronic" gadget?Like a BIG HDWhatever screen TV, EVen
they are coming down in price, as pix size grows.60 an' 70 dollar VHS and
DVD tapes are only a few bux, now. With todays "Music" they should PAY you
to take them!
Seeya at Woodburn(PIR)
Bob
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
