EV Digest 5730
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EV Album Updates
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Looking
by "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Transmissionless daze
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: A Look at the Wayland Invitational II 7/29/06 [part two]
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Transmissionless daze
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Burned Sparrow motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cap Based Battery Balancer (Thanks Lee)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: AC vs DC AGAIN?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV comments and Comparisons
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Truck repairs and status
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Motorbike trying to get 100km
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: AC vs DC AGAIN?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Discharge load?
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) #17
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Ideas for building a custom electric "mutant vehicle"
by Darren David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: A Look at the Wayland Invitational II 7/29/06 [part two]
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Siemens AC motor
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: #17
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Ideas for building a custom electric "mutant vehicle"
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Ideas for building a custom electric "mutant vehicle"
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Motorbike trying to get 100km
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Transmissionless daze
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Siemens AC motor
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Discharge load?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Discharge load?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Transmissionless daze
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Diode for Curtis/Albright contactor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Tesla motor and controller [OT]
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Discharge load?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Ideas for building a custom electric "mutant vehicle"
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Inverter question
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
We have had some recent requests for statistics about Album entries,
and in attempting to do them I have found we still have hundreds of
entries with major gaps in the data. While we have had LOTs of
updates, over 2300, we still have a lot really stale entries. If you
haven't updated yours, please do so. If there is one you know is
wrong, drop me a note off-list.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Webmaster
EV Photo Album
http://evalbum.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking for a 15 to 20 horse D C motor with Permanent Magnets New and
or used..
Who sells them???
Thanks Zed
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can't help but wonder about running my S10 without the transmission.
If "normal" running, in town, up to 40mph is usually done in second gear, and
third gear
is for interstate driving, why can't we install the motor to the differential
with a chain or belt to the same ratio as second gear?
Then, would it be practical to use field weakening to make the jump to highway
speeds?
Wonder if I am missing something here, or someone would've already done this.
I am happy to try it with my 1231/9"ADC, but wonder if the resistor in parallel
with the field coil is going to do something nasty to the Curtis?
Tom in Maine
www.hotandcold.tv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 16:19:29 -0700, you wrote:
>A good thing that happened was that a new NEDRA record was set. Using an
>unusual setup
>including 10 motors, those being 8 Eteks and 2 Advanced DCs.
>
>Here are the details-
>
>
>Class & Voltage Division - MC/F
>
>Vehicle, Driver, Owner - 1999 Geo Metro 120V, Driver: Steve Nash, Owner:
>Dave Cloud
>
>Time (sec) - 14.55
>
>Speed (mph) - 97.33
Inquiring minds want to know more. And I thought Siamese motors
were rad.
R. Matt Milliron
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
1981 Jet Electrica.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Gocze wrote:
Can't help but wonder about running my S10 without the transmission.
If "normal" running, in town, up to 40mph is usually done in second gear, and
third gear
is for interstate driving, why can't we install the motor to the differential
with a chain or belt to the same ratio as second gear?
Then, would it be practical to use field weakening to make the jump to highway
speeds?
Wonder if I am missing something here, or someone would've already done this.
I am happy to try it with my 1231/9"ADC, but wonder if the resistor in parallel
with the field coil is going to do something nasty to the Curtis?
A shunt motor (or even a series) might not hold up. At 70mph my S10
truck is turning 8,000 RPM on my AC motor, and that's about it for
speed. AC motors can rev higher than mot DC ones, so unless your motor
can run at 8k, you need 3rd gear.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Gods, what a heartbreaking mess! All that's left are the memories.
If it's any consolation, antique car afficionados sometimes start with
cars as bad as this, and lovingly restore them to better-than-showroom
condition. They replace almost everything, and the hours it takes are
incredible. You can tell how much a person loved that car by the time
they put into it.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> People naively think that a flying capacitor balancer is "100%
>> efficient" because ideal capacitors have no resistance, and so
>> have no resistive losses.
Lewis, Brian K wrote:
> I am not quite that naïve but I did think they would be more
> efficient than a light bulb. :)
That's certainly true! My little zener-lamp regulators aren't efficient;
but they are cheap.
> At any rate this has convinced me not to peruse this path. I will
> rebuild the Lee's with better heat dissipation and replace one of
> the 6.8 diodes with a 6.2 because I have AGM batteries. This is
> something else that has come up since I built them initially.
The zener-lamp regulators are just one step up from nothing. If you have
nothing else on you AGMS, at *least* use these. The cost is tiny
compared to the added battery life.
A flying capacitor balancer is another step up; it does a little better
job, and is perhaps 50% efficient (instead of 0%). The downside of
course is the extra cost and complexity.
As mentioned, you can also improve the capacitor balancer to include
inductors and/or transformers; then they become a little DC/DC converter
per battery. This is another step up; higher efficiency, faster
balancing -- but more cost and complexity.
Or, you can use a "proper" DC/DC, and share it between batteries with
relays or other switches, like my Battery Balancer, the Zivan Smoother,
or Badicheq. Still higher efficiency and faster balancing, but more cost
and complexity.
The trick is to figure out how much you're willing to spend per battery.
What's the tradeoff between battery replacement cost and balancer cost?
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Lacy wrote:
> as a noob who's interested in building an AC-powered daily driver,
> the real issue isn't "AC vs. DC", its "drag vs. daily driver".
> There is so much "drag talk" on this list that I find it virtually
> impossible to find any useful info for building a "daily driver,"
Don't be discouraged, Steve. This list is a "cocktail party" with a
dozen different conversations going on at once. You don't have to listen
to every conversation -- just wander about, listening here and there
until you find the ones that cover your interests.
And if you don't find one, START one! Ask questions! You'll get answers
-- probably more than you bargained for. After a while, you will figure
out who to listen to, and who is just blowing smoke. Some people always
steer the conversation in "their" direction. Others are great on certain
subjects, but completely ignorant on others.
Certain topics (like AC vs. DC) are likely to incite "holy wars". They
are two solutions to the same problem. Both can be built so the average
driver can't tell the difference. Unless your requirements are extreme
(DC for extreme performance, AC for extreme sophistication), they both
work just fine.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Ellis wrote:
> Who figures they have the best Range/$ ratio here?
My old ComutaVan was the most economical of my EVs. I bought it for
$1000, put another $1000 into batteries and other repairs, and drove it
about 20,000 miles in 7 years. Then I sold it for $1000 :-)
Thus, my cost of ownership was about 5 cents per mile (exclusive of
insurance and registration, which would be about the same for any
vehicle).
Fuel-wise, it got about 0.3 KWH/mile, as measured from the AC outlet. I
paid 6.5 cents/KWH for electricity, which is about 2 cents per mile.
Range-wise, it could go about 50 miles on a charge when new, and 20
miles/charge with its 7-year-old batteries. The pack consisted of twelve
6v golf cart batteries, which cost about $40 each when I bought them.
Thus about $500 for a 50-mile range.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok. I took the NiCD powered truck on a 20 mile torture drive this
evening. Potholes, speed bumps at speed, that sort of thing. Even some
highway driving at around 70mph. This thing moves.
Truck did not go into it's "snit" mode, so to speak. I was watching it
with DOL7, and while the RPMs looked reasonable, I was not going 1,000
miles per hour. Gotta fix that. Speaking of which, is the speedometer
driven by a cable or a signal pulse? It seems to be reading high by
about 10 mph.
The fixes consisted of cleaning up the encoder area with air, and tying
off the motor power cable to something so it's not flopping around. The
motor power cable got somewhat warm, but not really hot to the touch.
Then again I was pulling up to 240a from the pack for extended periods
of time. Maybe the problem was the motor cable causing phase faults.
The BB600's seem to be working fine. They sit around at 345-350 volts on
charge (252 cells) then pop up to 380 in the last ah or two from zero Ah
(measured with an E-meter, no perk factor, 90% CEF statically set). When
fresh they drop to 300 volts at 200a, and at 20ah down they seem to drop
to about 275 volts (1.1 per cell avg) at around 140-150a draw. 20ah is
nothing it seems.
The truck hauls a lot of power, even more than the Prizm. I think this
is due to the aerodynamics, as the weight right now is about 1,000
pounds less due to the nicad weight instead of lead acid. Definitely
very peppy, more so than the S10 I drove in CA with a fresh Hawker pack.
Charging takes forever though at a pokey 2 amp rate. I think I'm going
to save up for a PFC-30 and boost the charge rate a tad. I can also use
the second contactor to connect the pack to the new charger, which could
allow me to run 50 more volts of batteries. A 350 volt base pack would
be really nice to be honest, and I can limit the regen voltage to keep
it below the 400 volt limit on the Dolphin with room to spare. Should
also bring the range up to around 40 miles or so at 30ah down. Which is
plenty for me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You want to go a reasonable speed and 60 or so miles on a motorcycle. It'll
take my Lectra(which I have for sale) 6 Ni MH from EV bones. A full
fairing like the Vetter-Rifle streamliner(have one for sale also) This
should do it. That's what it'll take. (Shameless plug mode off) Lawrence
Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: Motorbike trying to get 100km
> HI Mark,
>
> hehe, I meant the 200 Ahr pack for my Yellow Beast. For the motorbike, i
> need something a lot smaller, prob in the 80 Ahr range. But still going to
> cost me an Arm and possibly a leg.
>
> I am in the process of tracking down parts for my clubman on the side
while
> i build my motorbike. I am looking for the etek motors, but no one seems
to
> have them, if they do , they'll be friggin expensive.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> >From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Subject: RE: Motorbike trying to get 100km
> >Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 05:36:55 +1000
> >
> >Hi Robert,
> >
> >That is a huge pack (72v, 200Ah) for a motorbike!
> >(My clubman pack is the same Wh - 144v, 100Ah)
> >Where would you fit it all on a bike?
> >It's the size of a large aquarium, and it weighs 120kg plus mounts and
> >cabling.
> >
> >As for the price (I assume AU$), 12K is about right.
> >You might get them cheaper as part of a bulk (> 500 batts) purchase.
> >
> >There have been some bad stories about TS batts.
> >They are certainly not racing batteries.
> >More like the equivalent of golf cart batts.
> >High capacity, but not very high current output (3C max).
> >
> >Kokams are more appropriate for a fast EV (7-10C max current) with
> >similar volume and weight to TS.
> >(They cost about 2x the TS price last time I looked)
> >
> >A123s are for drag racers with their max 100C current.
> >(According to the graphs from the RC site posted recently, they stay
> >above 2.2v with a 40C discharge - that's 2.2v x 60A = 132W out of
> >something smaller than a D cell - if only they made EV sized batts that
> >didn't need a whole bunch of fancy welding to connect them all together)
> >(I think you'd be looking at about US$60K for a similar sized pack)
> >
> >Mark
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Chew
> > > Sent: Sunday, 6 August 2006 10:58 PM
> > > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > Subject: RE: Motorbike trying to get 100km
> > >
> > >
> > > HI Mark,
> > >
> > > I enquired about thundersky batts directly through their
> > > sales email. And i
> > > was quoted aroun 12K for the pack i am after, 72 volt @200Ah. Wow!
> > >
> > > the reason for building my motorbike is because i want
> > > another project!
> > >
> > > My dad said a firm "No" to my clubman idea runnin a hybrid
> > > setup. Cause its
> > > not my house and i should move out real soon cause my
> > > projects are starting
> > > to take over the house!
> > >
> > > So i said, if its not a car i gotta build the motorbike. Its
> > > sad to see a
> > > good frame go to waste.
> > >
> > > I was checking out the EL Chopper and E Ninja. They have
> > > reported good
> > > ranges but i really doubt it that they get them. Scott Hogan
> > > gets around 26
> > > K's from his 96 volt of Hawkers @ 26 Ahr. And i plan to
> > > upgrade the voltage
> > > of my yellow beast so i will need a new controller so
> > > therfore i can recycle
> > > the 72 volt alltrax to some good use along with the gauges,
> > > except the
> > > ammeter from my yellow car.
> > >
> > > I have just heard some terrible stories of thundersky batts
> > > and i am not
> > > sure if i want to go that route. But then, prove me wrong.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Search for local singles online @ Lavalife
>
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D23198&_t=751140432&_r=emailtaglines_search_aug06&_m=EXT
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can bet your ass I don't diss AC systems. I'm heavily invested in
making them work.
The one bummer about this list is we don't have anywhere to store
data, just archiving the threads.
This list is only one source of info. Like all investments, spread
your research around.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Chancey wrote:
>
> > This proves what? Nothing really, just a data point to ponder.
>
> From my perspective, as a noob who's interested in building an
> AC-powered daily driver, is that the real issue isn't "AC vs. DC", its
> "drag vs. daily driver". There is so much "drag talk" on this list
that
> I find it virtually impossible to find any useful info for building a
> "daily driver," especially when it comes to information about a
> (possibly) AC powered daily driver. As I see it, people here are
mostly
> dissing AC drive systems because they can't tinker with them, and they
> can't pump 1000A through them, and they can't get sub-12 or sub-10
> quarter miles. I want none of these things, and I think I represent a
> lot of people interested in EV conversions.
>
> Its sad really, because this thread will probably drive me (and others,
> I presume) to unsubscribe from the list, primarily because of the sheer
> absurdity of the whole thing. There's so much bickering and
fighting on
> this list, instead of coming together as a community around all types
> EVs. Its exactly the opposite of what I expected when I joined. (See
> the thread where people bash the Tesla for being too expensive for a
> great example).
>
> Support AC, support DC, support dragging, support daily drivers, and
> support everything inbetween. Support commercial ventures, support
> budget homebrew conversions, and support infinite budget custom
> conversions. These are all the things the EV community here should be
> doing.
>
> Steve
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What can I use to discharge a 6.5 ah 273 volt module with? I need to
individually test these guys so I can try and recapture the glory of my
first nimh pack.
Mike
PS Miami Vice the movie was pretty good.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi ,just to let every one know, were just about done with EV #17. 98 S-10. 2
more on the way from Arkansaw, next week ..Wayne @ Sharon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all-
New to the list, but I'm getting really interested in EV building. I
want to eventually convert an ICE, but I want to cut my teeth on a
custom made "mutant vehicle" (basically a totally unorthodox go-cart, if
you will) for next year's Burning Man event. My needs are very simple --
I'll be custom welding a frame (either from scratch or by cannibalizing
several bicycles), and I need to be able to drive 1-2 people around at
5-10 mph on a dry, flat, dusty, 100+ degree dry lakebed for a week.
Average trip will be 1-2 miles, likely several of those between recharge.
Some inspiration:
http://tinyurl.com/ra3sp
http://tinyurl.com/ng9ev
http://tinyurl.com/lv7dl
I certainly don't need a super motor - perhaps even a beefy
scooter/e-bike motor would do the trick. But I'd love to throw it out to
the group and see how /you/ would do it. I basically need a parts list,
and I'd love to do it as cheaply as possible while still ending up with
a machine that will last for many years on the playa. How powerful a
motor? What kind of controller? Batteries? Gearing? What am i missing?
Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Best,
Darren David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 6, 2006, at 5:48 PM, Matthew Milliron wrote:
Class & Voltage Division - MC/F
Vehicle, Driver, Owner - 1999 Geo Metro 120V, Driver: Steve Nash,
Owner:
Dave Cloud
Time (sec) - 14.55
Speed (mph) - 97.33
Inquiring minds want to know more. And I thought Siamese motors
were rad.
This sounds like the vehicle that debuted at Woodburn 2005. He was
calling it a "Geo Stratus" (Stratus, Cloud, get it?).
There are a couple of pictures of the vehicle here:
http://www.dodrill.us/woodburn2005/index.html
I'm sure there are others, but I couldn't turn them up before - hey,
what's that shiny thing over there? <wanders off>
I got a look at it at Woodburn 2005. My pictures of the drivetrain
didn't turn out, but it was essentially an open box frame in between
the rear wheels, with four E-teks chained to each half shaft.
Here's a description of the vehicle:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/47951
If we're talking about the same vehicle, it's added 24 volts, two more
motors, and a bit more speed. Just like he said he was going to do in
the above message.
This is a really cool vehicle. I think it was built to prove a point -
that high voltage isn't necessary to win records. With eight E-teks,
it might not have proven the point very economically, though.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a Siemens AC motor on ebay, but it is missing the gear box,
output flanges.
Are the gear.flanges available? The output shaft looks like it's unusual.
This looks like a good motor otherwise.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
where are you located in AR?
--- Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi ,just to let every one know, were just about done
> with EV #17. 98 S-10. 2 more on the way from
> Arkansaw, next week ..Wayne @ Sharon
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 6, 2006, at 7:35 PM, Darren David wrote:
Hi all-
New to the list, but I'm getting really interested in EV building. I
want to eventually convert an ICE, but I want to cut my teeth on a
custom made "mutant vehicle" (basically a totally unorthodox go-cart,
if you will) for next year's Burning Man event. My needs are very
simple -- I'll be custom welding a frame (either from scratch or by
cannibalizing several bicycles), and I need to be able to drive 1-2
people around at 5-10 mph on a dry, flat, dusty, 100+ degree dry
lakebed for a week. Average trip will be 1-2 miles, likely several of
those between recharge.
Some inspiration:
http://tinyurl.com/ra3sp
http://tinyurl.com/ng9ev
http://tinyurl.com/lv7dl
Don't forget this one:
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/104.html>
Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Best,
Darren David
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Darren
For a flat, dry, lake bed at 10MPH I would use a couple 20" e-bike
hub-motors. You don't have to worry about gearing them down or about
dust getting in (for the most part)
I had a 26" hub-motor wheel but with such a large size you don't have
much torque.
--
Martin K
Darren David wrote:
Hi all-
New to the list, but I'm getting really interested in EV building. I
want to eventually convert an ICE, but I want to cut my teeth on a
custom made "mutant vehicle" (basically a totally unorthodox go-cart,
if you will) for next year's Burning Man event. My needs are very
simple -- I'll be custom welding a frame (either from scratch or by
cannibalizing several bicycles), and I need to be able to drive 1-2
people around at 5-10 mph on a dry, flat, dusty, 100+ degree dry
lakebed for a week. Average trip will be 1-2 miles, likely several of
those between recharge.
Some inspiration:
http://tinyurl.com/ra3sp
http://tinyurl.com/ng9ev
http://tinyurl.com/lv7dl
I certainly don't need a super motor - perhaps even a beefy
scooter/e-bike motor would do the trick. But I'd love to throw it out
to the group and see how /you/ would do it. I basically need a parts
list, and I'd love to do it as cheaply as possible while still ending
up with a machine that will last for many years on the playa. How
powerful a motor? What kind of controller? Batteries? Gearing? What am
i missing?
Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Best,
Darren David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds good lawrence, but i am down under. :-) Wish i could have a look at
it and possibly test out the performance as i have no idea on how they go.
Oh well, Anyone on the list that has modified their motorbike frame (make it
longer) something like the E Chopper. I like that style and if so i can fit
some big cheap leads on it.
ANy ideas?
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Motorbike trying to get 100km
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 18:17:02 -0700
You want to go a reasonable speed and 60 or so miles on a motorcycle.
It'll
take my Lectra(which I have for sale) 6 Ni MH from EV bones. A full
fairing like the Vetter-Rifle streamliner(have one for sale also) This
should do it. That's what it'll take. (Shameless plug mode off) Lawrence
Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: Motorbike trying to get 100km
> HI Mark,
>
> hehe, I meant the 200 Ahr pack for my Yellow Beast. For the motorbike, i
> need something a lot smaller, prob in the 80 Ahr range. But still going
to
> cost me an Arm and possibly a leg.
>
> I am in the process of tracking down parts for my clubman on the side
while
> i build my motorbike. I am looking for the etek motors, but no one seems
to
> have them, if they do , they'll be friggin expensive.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> >From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Subject: RE: Motorbike trying to get 100km
> >Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 05:36:55 +1000
> >
> >Hi Robert,
> >
> >That is a huge pack (72v, 200Ah) for a motorbike!
> >(My clubman pack is the same Wh - 144v, 100Ah)
> >Where would you fit it all on a bike?
> >It's the size of a large aquarium, and it weighs 120kg plus mounts and
> >cabling.
> >
> >As for the price (I assume AU$), 12K is about right.
> >You might get them cheaper as part of a bulk (> 500 batts) purchase.
> >
> >There have been some bad stories about TS batts.
> >They are certainly not racing batteries.
> >More like the equivalent of golf cart batts.
> >High capacity, but not very high current output (3C max).
> >
> >Kokams are more appropriate for a fast EV (7-10C max current) with
> >similar volume and weight to TS.
> >(They cost about 2x the TS price last time I looked)
> >
> >A123s are for drag racers with their max 100C current.
> >(According to the graphs from the RC site posted recently, they stay
> >above 2.2v with a 40C discharge - that's 2.2v x 60A = 132W out of
> >something smaller than a D cell - if only they made EV sized batts that
> >didn't need a whole bunch of fancy welding to connect them all
together)
> >(I think you'd be looking at about US$60K for a similar sized pack)
> >
> >Mark
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Chew
> > > Sent: Sunday, 6 August 2006 10:58 PM
> > > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > Subject: RE: Motorbike trying to get 100km
> > >
> > >
> > > HI Mark,
> > >
> > > I enquired about thundersky batts directly through their
> > > sales email. And i
> > > was quoted aroun 12K for the pack i am after, 72 volt @200Ah. Wow!
> > >
> > > the reason for building my motorbike is because i want
> > > another project!
> > >
> > > My dad said a firm "No" to my clubman idea runnin a hybrid
> > > setup. Cause its
> > > not my house and i should move out real soon cause my
> > > projects are starting
> > > to take over the house!
> > >
> > > So i said, if its not a car i gotta build the motorbike. Its
> > > sad to see a
> > > good frame go to waste.
> > >
> > > I was checking out the EL Chopper and E Ninja. They have
> > > reported good
> > > ranges but i really doubt it that they get them. Scott Hogan
> > > gets around 26
> > > K's from his 96 volt of Hawkers @ 26 Ahr. And i plan to
> > > upgrade the voltage
> > > of my yellow beast so i will need a new controller so
> > > therfore i can recycle
> > > the 72 volt alltrax to some good use along with the gauges,
> > > except the
> > > ammeter from my yellow car.
> > >
> > > I have just heard some terrible stories of thundersky batts
> > > and i am not
> > > sure if i want to go that route. But then, prove me wrong.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Search for local singles online @ Lavalife
>
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>
_________________________________________________________________
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At 06:43 PM 6/08/06 -0500, Tom wrote:
Can't help but wonder about running my S10 without the transmission.
If "normal" running, in town, up to 40mph is usually done in second gear,
and third gear
is for interstate driving, why can't we install the motor to the
differential with a chain or belt to the same ratio as second gear?
Then, would it be practical to use field weakening to make the jump to
highway speeds?
Wonder if I am missing something here, or someone would've already done this.
I am happy to try it with my 1231/9"ADC, but wonder if the resistor in
parallel with the field coil is going to do something nasty to the Curtis?
G'day Tom
Changing gear with belts or chains when transferring the amount of power
needed for a road-going EV is pretty expensive, and possibly less efficient
than a gearbox.
Some trucks have/had 2-speed differentials with various ratios, that may be
an option, but I don't know much about them - the only ones I have
personally experienced are in 6 ton+ size trucks.
Maybe better to series the fields for double torque at low RPMs, then
parallel the fields [as they are now, IIRC] for higher RPM (I am going to
be trying this when I get my truck on the road) and a diff ratio that
doesn't overspeed the 9" (IIRC about 5kRPM) at highway speed.
As to the Curtis, again an IIRC statement, that the inductance of the 9" is
too low for a Curtis to be happy to start with, and (I think) 90% of the
inductance of a motor comes from the fields, so parallel connecting a
resistor across the fields for weakening reduces the inductance to maybe
50-60% of what it starts as, making the even Curtis less happy.
Another thing to consider if going transmissionless, is how do you drive
your speedometer and odometer? Many places require an odometer by law for
registration. I keep looking at my two 72V GE motors and comparing them to
the length of my spare (dead) Skyline transmission, it would be a similar
size to put the two motors into the space of the transmission, and use the
back end of the transmission as the tail shaft coupling and speedometer
drive. But then I'd want to change the diff ratio to let the motors rev
higher, which would put the speedo/odo out.
Hope this helps.
Regards
[Technik] James
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What is the ebay auction number? There are a lot of "siemens motors". If
it has a spiral spline it has been on ebay many times and discussed here
many times: you cannot get a controller nor a matching adapter for any
reasonable cost. Most agree if they could purchase it for $200 it might be
worth the effort.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: August 6, 2006 7:12 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Siemens AC motor
There is a Siemens AC motor on ebay, but it is missing the gear box, output
flanges.
Are the gear.flanges available? The output shaft looks like it's unusual.
This looks like a good motor otherwise.
Jack
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Mike Phillips wrote:
What can I use to discharge a 6.5 ah 273 volt module with? I need to
individually test these guys so I can try and recapture the glory of my
first nimh pack.
240 volt water heater element in a water tank would work well. Can be
bought in various sizes, just make sure to use a real official
make/break under load contactor to cycle it.
Chris
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At 06:57 PM 6/08/06 -0700, Mike wrote:
What can I use to discharge a 6.5 ah 273 volt module with? I need to
individually test these guys so I can try and recapture the glory of my
first nimh pack.
G'day Mike, and all
240V heater, 2.4kW? two 110V ceramic heaters in series? Re-plumb the
elements in a single 110V ceramic heater to put them in series?
Have to "hack" the heaters to power the fan/s from whatever they were
designed to run from, and use a suitably rated contactor to switch the DC
on and off.
Regards
[Technik] James
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Tom Gocze wrote:
> Can't help but wonder about running my S10 without the transmission.
> If "normal" running, in town, up to 40mph is usually done in second
> gear, and third gear is for interstate driving, why can't we install
> the motor to the differential with a chain or belt to the same ratio
> as second gear?
Yes, you can do this. It will work fine if the motor and controller are
big enough to accellerate a heavy pickup fast enough to suit your needs.
> Then, would it be practical to use field weakening to make the jump
> to highway speeds?
Yes, you can use field weakening to get more torque (and higher current)
at high rpm.
> I am happy to try it with my 1231/9"ADC, but wonder if the resistor
> in parallel with the field coil is going to do something nasty to
> the Curtis?
Field weakening should ONLY be used when the controller is fully on.
Basically, this means that the motor is above some minimum rpm and the
throttle is floored. When these conditions are met, a contactor pulls in
to connect the field weakening resistor.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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>> What diode would be a good match to the coil on a 12
>> Volt Curtis/Albright contactor?
Bob Bath wrote:
> I'm thinking it's like a 1N4004 or so. It needs a voltage rating
> higher than the pack? Paging Lee A. Hart on this one...
Just got home from a week's vacation. 1200+ emails to wade thru...
The diode is there to protect whatever is switching the contactor coil.
The contactor itself would be quite happy with no diode; in fact, it
would drop out faster and its contacts would last longer.
If you just put a diode across the coil, it needs to be rated for
whatever current the coil draws when on, and whatever voltage is
powering the coil. A 1N4001 is on the puny side; 50v, 1amp. A 1N5400 is
better; 50v, 3amps. These are right for a coil powered from a 12v
battery; for higher voltage coils, use a correspondingly higher voltage
diode (1N4001-1N4007 for 50-1000v at 1amp, 1N5400-1N5408 for 50-1000v
3amps, etc.)
Personally, I prefer an MOV, ZNR, or AC transient absorber, rated for
2-4 times the coil voltage. They are not polarity sensitive, are built
to withstand high peak loads, and let the coil voltage rise higher so
the contactor drops out quicker.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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> Arthur,
>
> $688/1000 from Digikey. 75a at 25c and 45a at 100c.
More like $6197 / 1000 and none available. Makes
ready made modules look better.
>
> I wonder which IGBT's Otmar or ACP use?
>
> Have you ever machined an IGBT module open to see how it's constructed?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>> The IRGP50B60PD1PbF from International Rectifier.
>>
>> - Arthur
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We are gas heated here. But I'll keep my eye open for them.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > What can I use to discharge a 6.5 ah 273 volt module with? I need to
> > individually test these guys so I can try and recapture the glory
of my
> > first nimh pack.
>
> 240 volt water heater element in a water tank would work well. Can be
> bought in various sizes, just make sure to use a real official
> make/break under load contactor to cycle it.
>
> Chris
>
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I would build a somewhat replica of Fords first car, which is basically
four bicycle wheels, chain drive, a bench seat, and a motor, and stick
steering. The Towe Museum here in Sac has a replica of the real thing.
But I'm sure that's been done a hundred times.
I submit my idea of building an electric wheel-driven Personal Water
Craft, or perhaps that might be an expensive body to use, so maybe an
older 70's jet boat, I see many of them without motors going cheap.
Probably done a lot too.
OK, how about this for unique, take a car body, and make it so it drives
on its side, i.e. your seat is sitting on the drivers door. You climb
in and out from the passenger door on top.
That would get some attention.
And I suppose to avoid the ugly under side, take two cars, and sandwich
them together. This would also give you a wider vehicle, and let the
passenger be able to see out the other side.
Jack
Martin K wrote:
Hi Darren
For a flat, dry, lake bed at 10MPH I would use a couple 20" e-bike
hub-motors. You don't have to worry about gearing them down or about
dust getting in (for the most part)
I had a 26" hub-motor wheel but with such a large size you don't have
much torque.
--
Martin K
Darren David wrote:
Hi all-
New to the list, but I'm getting really interested in EV building. I
want to eventually convert an ICE, but I want to cut my teeth on a
custom made "mutant vehicle" (basically a totally unorthodox go-cart,
if you will) for next year's Burning Man event. My needs are very
simple -- I'll be custom welding a frame (either from scratch or by
cannibalizing several bicycles), and I need to be able to drive 1-2
people around at 5-10 mph on a dry, flat, dusty, 100+ degree dry
lakebed for a week. Average trip will be 1-2 miles, likely several of
those between recharge.
Some inspiration:
http://tinyurl.com/ra3sp
http://tinyurl.com/ng9ev
http://tinyurl.com/lv7dl
I certainly don't need a super motor - perhaps even a beefy
scooter/e-bike motor would do the trick. But I'd love to throw it out
to the group and see how /you/ would do it. I basically need a parts
list, and I'd love to do it as cheaply as possible while still ending
up with a machine that will last for many years on the playa. How
powerful a motor? What kind of controller? Batteries? Gearing? What am
i missing?
Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Best,
Darren David
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I'm looking into adding an inverter to my truck to
power some Ac accessories. I've seen posts about
people using their vehicles for back up power as well.
I've been looking at the various offerings and can't
seem to find one important number.. the input current
required. Is it a simple watts to amps conversion? a
2000 watt invert /12V equals 166A input? This seems a
bit high... I have a 45A @ Iota Dc supply, it puts out
14.2V @ 45A, that's a little over 600 watts. Is that
the biggest inverter I could safely power with this?
thanks for the input..
TiM
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