EV Digest 5731
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Siemens AC motor
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Inverter question
by Jim Walls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Tesla motor and controller [OT]
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Tesla motor and controller [OT]
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Tesla motor and controller [OT]
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) eCobra is had first drive. Yeah!
by "Michael T Kadie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Discharge load?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Motorbike trying to get 100km
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) S15 On E-bay at $1400
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Who Killed the Electric Car
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Destroyed Motor (was Rattling noise, lurching motion)
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE:Transmissionless daze
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Still having weird driveline problems
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Inverter question
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) buddy-batteries / parallel strings: Flooded vs. AGM
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Discharge load?
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Hello. Ecycle Motor Question
by "Mike Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Discharge load?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Discharge load?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Inverter question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: reg installations
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Discharge load?
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Still having weird driveline problems
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Splash guard
by Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Licensing help needed for EV
by Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This is a Ranger EV motor, and yes it has a spiral spline. I don't
recall seeing any discussion of it, maybe I missed it.
I will check the archives, thanks.
Jack
Don Cameron wrote:
What is the ebay auction number? There are a lot of "siemens motors". If
it has a spiral spline it has been on ebay many times and discussed here
many times: you cannot get a controller nor a matching adapter for any
reasonable cost. Most agree if they could purchase it for $200 it might be
worth the effort.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: August 6, 2006 7:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Siemens AC motor
There is a Siemens AC motor on ebay, but it is missing the gear box, output
flanges.
Are the gear.flanges available? The output shaft looks like it's unusual.
This looks like a good motor otherwise.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TiM M wrote:
I'm looking into adding an inverter to my truck to
power some Ac accessories. I've seen posts about
people using their vehicles for back up power as well.
I've been looking at the various offerings and can't
seem to find one important number.. the input current
required. Is it a simple watts to amps conversion? a
2000 watt invert /12V equals 166A input? This seems a
bit high...
That's pretty much it except you forgot to include a little
inefficiency, so instead of 166 amps it's more likely to be 175 to 200 amps.
--
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ofc: 818-548-4804
http://home.earthlink.net/~k6ccc
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How's this for a ready-made module?
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/module.jpg
Pretty self-explanatory, I guess. The black base is a Delrin plastic,
potted with epoxy on top. A non-conductive liquid flows directly under
the soldered tabs of the parts. This is just a test, of course, since
the width isn't filled up. For the actual modules, I found a 78A IGBT
for $214/100 that fits my needs better.
Four-and-a-half years ago I announced that I could build an AC inverter
for about $200 in parts, or an inverter and battery-boost power supply
for $500. Both the power rating and the price have gone up since then,
but I'm still aiming in that direction. My current power goal is 75kW
for ten seconds, or a continuous of 20kW (note that my car is small).
- Arthur
On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 21:24 -0700, Dave wrote:
> > $688/1000 from Digikey. 75a at 25c and 45a at 100c.
>
>
> More like $6197 / 1000 and none available. Makes
> ready made modules look better.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like from all of the pics that you are making headway. Have you
looked into aircooling the igbt's at all?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> How's this for a ready-made module?
>
> http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/module.jpg
>
> Pretty self-explanatory, I guess. The black base is a Delrin plastic,
> potted with epoxy on top. A non-conductive liquid flows directly under
> the soldered tabs of the parts. This is just a test, of course, since
> the width isn't filled up. For the actual modules, I found a 78A IGBT
> for $214/100 that fits my needs better.
>
> Four-and-a-half years ago I announced that I could build an AC inverter
> for about $200 in parts, or an inverter and battery-boost power supply
> for $500. Both the power rating and the price have gone up since then,
> but I'm still aiming in that direction. My current power goal is 75kW
> for ten seconds, or a continuous of 20kW (note that my car is small).
>
> - Arthur
>
>
> On Sun, 2006-08-06 at 21:24 -0700, Dave wrote:
> > > $688/1000 from Digikey. 75a at 25c and 45a at 100c.
> >
> >
> > More like $6197 / 1000 and none available. Makes
> > ready made modules look better.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One too many zeros. $688/100.
Let's see. 33 igbt's per phase at 45a each that's 1485 amps per phase
at 100c. 463kw/phase at 312v nom. 463kw seems high. Hmmm.
They should also be tested, sorted and matched.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Arthur,
> >
> > $688/1000 from Digikey. 75a at 25c and 45a at 100c.
>
>
> More like $6197 / 1000 and none available. Makes
> ready made modules look better.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > I wonder which IGBT's Otmar or ACP use?
> >
> > Have you ever machined an IGBT module open to see how it's
constructed?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Arthur W. Matteson" <ev@>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> The IRGP50B60PD1PbF from International Rectifier.
> >>
> >> - Arthur
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
She's very HP limited because we are using a golf cart motor controller
while waiting for the zilla.
But she is running and we have some video on the website.
KD
http://ssinc.us/kitcar/index.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
How fast do you need to get the power out of that Prius pack?
When I need a load of about 1/2 to 1A I use a string of bulbs
of the same wattage to make a series-divider.
3 bulbs for around 300V, 4 for 400V. Works perfectly and cheap.
I have a heap of bulbs from replacing them with CFL's.
Water heaters can be bought ask 'dunkable' add-ons though they
would normally be 110.
You may be able to find heating elements from junked driers
that do 240V 25A but you'll need to keep the blower on AC
to avoid overheating them.
Also a range has 240V high-power elements but you will need
to disable the normal thermostat as it will self-destruct on DC.
And avoid connecting the ground, expecting 110V for a clock or
control unit...
Many household items use 240V, the high-power ones are usually
the heaters...
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:43 PM
To: Christopher Zach
Subject: Re: Discharge load?
We are gas heated here. But I'll keep my eye open for them.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > What can I use to discharge a 6.5 ah 273 volt module with? I need to
> > individually test these guys so I can try and recapture the glory
of my
> > first nimh pack.
>
> 240 volt water heater element in a water tank would work well. Can be
> bought in various sizes, just make sure to use a real official
> make/break under load contactor to cycle it.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just sold the bike and the fairing. However it's not that hard to take
something like the Honda Rebel & using the El Chopper ET kit/diagrams to
make a very useable vehicle. If you weld & have access to junk motorcycles
you can do it. Lawrence.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Motorbike trying to get 100km
> Sounds good lawrence, but i am down under. :-) Wish i could have a look at
> it and possibly test out the performance as i have no idea on how they go.
>
> Oh well, Anyone on the list that has modified their motorbike frame (make
it
> longer) something like the E Chopper. I like that style and if so i can
fit
> some big cheap leads on it.
>
> ANy ideas?
>
>
> >From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: Motorbike trying to get 100km
> >Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 18:17:02 -0700
> >
> >You want to go a reasonable speed and 60 or so miles on a motorcycle.
> >It'll
> >take my Lectra(which I have for sale) 6 Ni MH from EV bones. A full
> >fairing like the Vetter-Rifle streamliner(have one for sale also) This
> >should do it. That's what it'll take. (Shameless plug mode off)
Lawrence
> >Rhodes.......
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:19 PM
> >Subject: RE: Motorbike trying to get 100km
> >
> >
> > > HI Mark,
> > >
> > > hehe, I meant the 200 Ahr pack for my Yellow Beast. For the motorbike,
i
> > > need something a lot smaller, prob in the 80 Ahr range. But still
going
> >to
> > > cost me an Arm and possibly a leg.
> > >
> > > I am in the process of tracking down parts for my clubman on the side
> >while
> > > i build my motorbike. I am looking for the etek motors, but no one
seems
> >to
> > > have them, if they do , they'll be friggin expensive.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > >To: <[email protected]>
> > > >Subject: RE: Motorbike trying to get 100km
> > > >Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 05:36:55 +1000
> > > >
> > > >Hi Robert,
> > > >
> > > >That is a huge pack (72v, 200Ah) for a motorbike!
> > > >(My clubman pack is the same Wh - 144v, 100Ah)
> > > >Where would you fit it all on a bike?
> > > >It's the size of a large aquarium, and it weighs 120kg plus mounts
and
> > > >cabling.
> > > >
> > > >As for the price (I assume AU$), 12K is about right.
> > > >You might get them cheaper as part of a bulk (> 500 batts) purchase.
> > > >
> > > >There have been some bad stories about TS batts.
> > > >They are certainly not racing batteries.
> > > >More like the equivalent of golf cart batts.
> > > >High capacity, but not very high current output (3C max).
> > > >
> > > >Kokams are more appropriate for a fast EV (7-10C max current) with
> > > >similar volume and weight to TS.
> > > >(They cost about 2x the TS price last time I looked)
> > > >
> > > >A123s are for drag racers with their max 100C current.
> > > >(According to the graphs from the RC site posted recently, they stay
> > > >above 2.2v with a 40C discharge - that's 2.2v x 60A = 132W out of
> > > >something smaller than a D cell - if only they made EV sized batts
that
> > > >didn't need a whole bunch of fancy welding to connect them all
> >together)
> > > >(I think you'd be looking at about US$60K for a similar sized pack)
> > > >
> > > >Mark
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Chew
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, 6 August 2006 10:58 PM
> > > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > > Subject: RE: Motorbike trying to get 100km
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > HI Mark,
> > > > >
> > > > > I enquired about thundersky batts directly through their
> > > > > sales email. And i
> > > > > was quoted aroun 12K for the pack i am after, 72 volt @200Ah. Wow!
> > > > >
> > > > > the reason for building my motorbike is because i want
> > > > > another project!
> > > > >
> > > > > My dad said a firm "No" to my clubman idea runnin a hybrid
> > > > > setup. Cause its
> > > > > not my house and i should move out real soon cause my
> > > > > projects are starting
> > > > > to take over the house!
> > > > >
> > > > > So i said, if its not a car i gotta build the motorbike. Its
> > > > > sad to see a
> > > > > good frame go to waste.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was checking out the EL Chopper and E Ninja. They have
> > > > > reported good
> > > > > ranges but i really doubt it that they get them. Scott Hogan
> > > > > gets around 26
> > > > > K's from his 96 volt of Hawkers @ 26 Ahr. And i plan to
> > > > > upgrade the voltage
> > > > > of my yellow beast so i will need a new controller so
> > > > > therfore i can recycle
> > > > > the 72 volt alltrax to some good use along with the gauges,
> > > > > except the
> > > > > ammeter from my yellow car.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have just heard some terrible stories of thundersky batts
> > > > > and i am not
> > > > > sure if i want to go that route. But then, prove me wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Search for local singles online @ Lavalife
> > >
>
>http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2
Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3
Den%5FAU%26a%3D23198&_t=751140432&_r=emailtaglines_search_aug06&_m=EXT
> > >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Win petrol with drive.com.au - 3 times each weekday!
>
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B42319378%3B13690542%3Bk&_t=757220195&_m=EXT
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1988 GMC S15 ELECTRIC CONVERSION TRUCK Item number: 260017313405
I don't know how I missed this one. And, it's only at $1400 right now. No
charger, no batteries. Clutchless design :( but it looks like the truck was
converted as new and only has 20k miles on it. The parts alone are worth more
than $1400.
Too bad, there is no way I can get out there within the next few weeks, or it
would be mine.
Steve
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Dave!
I saw the movie over the weekend and really enjoyed it.
This article gives people some insight on how all this got started.
Thanks;
Dennis
Elsberry, MO.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Roden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 6:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Who Killed the Electric Car
On 2 Aug 2006 at 6:14, Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
> I have a copy of a 1992 article in Discovery Magazine on the design of
> the Impact (EV1) by Paul MacCready and his company AeroVironment.
I've posted this article on evdl.org - at the moment there's no page
pointing to it (I'll fix that soon) but you can download it from either
of the links below.
http://www.evdl.org/docs/impact.pdf
http://www.evdl.org/docs/impact.zip
The zip file is an archive of monochrome jpeg scans from the original
pages.
Some were done in 1-bit so the images don't look so good, but the text
is quite legible. (Because of the text layout, OCRing the whole article
would have been extremely time-consuming.) It's slightly over 1mb.
The pdf file is easier to view or print, but it's quite large, over
13mb.
The usual disclaimer applies : this information is posted for
educational and information purposes, under the fair use principles.
However, if you are the copyright owner of this material and believe my
use to be inappropriate, please see the page
http://www.evdl.org/help/
for my contact information. Notify me and I'll remove it.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Jude Anthony wrote:
If I accelerate over 25mph in 2nd, for instance, the faint
motor whine turns into a growl and rattle, and power cuts
back at intervals. This results in a slight lurching
motion. A gentle foot can sometimes get up to 30mph, but
not easily.
There is definitely something not right! My ADC 8" has no problem at
all running up to around 40mph in 2nd in my car (and would probably be
fine above that too, but like you, I too don't have my tach hooked up
yet, so I shift to 3rd just to play it safe).
Boy, howdy. I blew up the motor. Pictures on my website later today.
I was trying to duplicate the problem on the road, so I'd be able to
duplicate it on jackstands. I had tried the jackstands before, and
everything seemed fine, so I was especially finding the max speed before
the vibration, with a gentle pedal. I was taking measurements of how
fast I could go in each gear before hestiation and before growling /
rattling / vibration.
I had completed everything from SuperLow to 3rd gear. I was coming
home, trying the SL because I figured that I didn't want to spin the
wheels like gyroscopes on the jackstands. I was getting the hesitation,
and I was trying to soft-pedal to the maximum speed. There was a loud
whack, a cloud of dust, and an abrupt stop.
I now have the remains of my commutator in a paper bag. I burned myself
trying to pick them up immediately after the incident. My brother and I
decided to continue nevertheless; we spent nine hours getting the motor
out yesterday. We're working on getting a puller to get the adaptor hub
off.
This is just heartbreaking. My EV will now not be attending WKTEC on
Friday.
Anybody got a cheap 9" in Florida, near Orlando? If I bring this
broken motor to a shop, will they be able to say what the problem *was*?
Thanks,
Jude Anthony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Thanks for the info.
I think I will try this, once I am on the road, within a week or so. Am getting
tired of driving in my business's yard.
Have a bunch of very healthy motor stopping resistors that I got for contactor
controllers
that will match up well with the motor. Thought I'd put a manual "boost" switch
for trying this when up to speed (controller max'ed out) and see where it puts
us.
Just would like to not replace the controller under duress.
Update to follow.
Tom
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Transmissionless daze
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 20:51:22 -0700
Tom Gocze wrote:
> Can't help but wonder about running my S10 without the transmission.
> If "normal" running, in town, up to 40mph is usually done in second
> gear, and third gear is for interstate driving, why can't we install
> the motor to the differential with a chain or belt to the same ratio
> as second gear?
Yes, you can do this. It will work fine if the motor and controller are
big enough to accellerate a heavy pickup fast enough to suit your needs.
> Then, would it be practical to use field weakening to make the jump
> to highway speeds?
Yes, you can use field weakening to get more torque (and higher current)
at high rpm.
> I am happy to try it with my 1231/9"ADC, but wonder if the resistor
> in parallel with the field coil is going to do something nasty to
> the Curtis?
Field weakening should ONLY be used when the controller is fully on.
Basically, this means that the motor is above some minimum rpm and the
throttle is floored. When these conditions are met, a contactor pulls in
to connect the field weakening resistor.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Chris,
I suspect one motor phase simply has intermittently bad connection.
You CAN drive on 2 remaining phases, but the symptoms will be
as you've described.
I'm beginning to think so. Review of the motor showed that the main
power line pretty much comes out of the motor and hangs there in the
air. That could bounce around and cause problems is my guess.
It's now tied off to the top of the motor bracket (zero strain) and so
far the truck seems to be happy again. I really think this was prototype
zero in the US_Electricar world, this truck has all sorts of weirdness.
However it does run, and does have a nice ABS system.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roger, as per usual, it puts it nicely into perspective. BTW I
completely agree about the cost not being the only factor - otherwise I
would have **never** started the very expensive new beetle project. (the
current payback period, minus the cost of replacing batteries is about 36
years!)
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: August 4, 2006 10:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
Don Cameron wrote:
> So for $5k I can have an electric beetle for 40km (30mi)?
> Sounds a bit low, but possible. Maybe say $6k including all the
> fabricating.
You could certainly do it more cheaply than this. My own conversion cost me
about $3k (8" ADC, GE EV-1 SCR controller, 120V pack).
> Ok, for $6k, I can also purchase a $2k 1995 Geo Metro, which gets
> 50mpg city/highway. Then I have $4k left to spend on gasoline.
>
> How long is the payback for this?
Probably never ;^> Even in my case, with an initial investment of only
about $3k, it may never break even. *IF* the Metro actaully got 50mpg on my
commute, this would cost me $1.65/day in gas (at $1.15/litre), or about
$1.50/day more than driving the EV. 5 days/week, 52 weeks/yr = $390/yr
savings on fuel. But, this means 520 cycles per year (to about 50%DOD),
which means a pack of batteries will likely wear out in about 3yrs (at
best). For my Optimas this means a battery cost of $666/yr, so the EV costs
me about $276 more to operate per year than the 50mpg Metro... As long as we
assume the Metro never needs ICE-related maintenance that the EV doesn't.
With the $1000 pack of floodeds and the same 3yr life expectancy, the
battery cost is $333, so the EV saves $57/year, and it would take only
52 years (and a bit ;^) to recover the $3k cost of my conversion. ;^>
Sometimes the payback isn't measured in $$$ ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tim,
You're better off finding an inverter that can take a higher input
voltage such as 48v. Most inverters that take 48v actually accept a
range from 48-72v input. At that voltage (say 60v) you could probably
figure out a pack-tapping arrangement that would keep the discharge uniform.
I'm sure they exist but I don't know of any higher voltage input
inverters that may be easily available. How many volts is your truck?
--
Martin K
TiM M wrote:
I'm looking into adding an inverter to my truck to
power some Ac accessories. I've seen posts about
people using their vehicles for back up power as well.
I've been looking at the various offerings and can't
seem to find one important number.. the input current
required. Is it a simple watts to amps conversion? a
2000 watt invert /12V equals 166A input? This seems a
bit high... I have a 45A @ Iota Dc supply, it puts out
14.2V @ 45A, that's a little over 600 watts. Is that
the biggest inverter I could safely power with this?
thanks for the input..
TiM
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
TO: anyone
I'm looking at a 72 volt system on a car someone else converted, for around
town use (max speed 55 or so). They use some deep cycle flooded (I think) 12
volt batteries, two groups of 6 in parallel. I imagine a 72 volt system might
be better constructed with 12x 6 volt batteries, so none are in parallel
(though one pack of 6 is under the hood, other
pack is in the trunk - maybe all the connection issues are why they split the
pakc in two (?) ).
However, I'm thinking that maybe parallel batteries / buddy batteries are
more of an issue with AGM batteries than with floodeds (??). It's bad because
of unequal resistances / states of paralleled batteries, so uneven discharging
(and discharging), right? (and floodeds would just result in some batteries
needing watered more often, whereas with agms,
the damage to the battery would commence more immediately (?) )
(I've really got to just get me one uf them that neet ev's so I kin lurn
this stuf fur maself! Until then, however, I might as well get a little advice
from the veterans ... I always enjoy the tutorials on basic issues like these,
but any individual experiences are also very instructive to me)
Lots of questions, thanks for any tips,
Seth Myers
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--- Begin Message ---
1 hour would be great. But that's a few watts. The load cannot be too
physically large as I don't have much room left in the garage due to
all of the EV activity.
Mike
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> How fast do you need to get the power out of that Prius pack?
>
> When I need a load of about 1/2 to 1A I use a string of bulbs
> of the same wattage to make a series-divider.
> 3 bulbs for around 300V, 4 for 400V. Works perfectly and cheap.
> I have a heap of bulbs from replacing them with CFL's.
>
> Water heaters can be bought ask 'dunkable' add-ons though they
> would normally be 110.
> You may be able to find heating elements from junked driers
> that do 240V 25A but you'll need to keep the blower on AC
> to avoid overheating them.
> Also a range has 240V high-power elements but you will need
> to disable the normal thermostat as it will self-destruct on DC.
> And avoid connecting the ground, expecting 110V for a clock or
> control unit...
> Many household items use 240V, the high-power ones are usually
> the heaters...
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:43 PM
> To: Christopher Zach
> Subject: Re: Discharge load?
>
>
> We are gas heated here. But I'll keep my eye open for them.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > What can I use to discharge a 6.5 ah 273 volt module with? I need
> to
> > > individually test these guys so I can try and recapture the glory
> of my
> > > first nimh pack.
> >
> > 240 volt water heater element in a water tank would work well. Can
> be
> > bought in various sizes, just make sure to use a real official
> > make/break under load contactor to cycle it.
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm new to this list. I have a sailboat with an electric motor. I'm looking
to upgrade the motor.
I am considering an Ecycle motor - CMG 13-24. The pertinent specs are:
Pancake motor similar to Etek
At 24 volts,
1800 RPM
400 AMP Max
.0855 ft lb / amp
rated 12 HP
15 lbs
high temperature cutoff
Forward/Reverse on attached circuit board
Does anyone have knowledge or experience with this motor? Is it dependable,
rugged, etc?
Thanks.
Mike Kaplan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
1 hour would be great. But that's a few watts. The load cannot be too
physically large as I don't have much room left in the garage due to
all of the EV activity.
How about a pair of oil filled space heaters, wired in series?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Use a staged electric furnas element set.
It works pretty good.
240 VAC is close enough for 273 volts.
I use a Windloader... a PFC50 charger set to contstant voltage loading. As a
programmable battery..
I can dial it up from 6 volts to 450 volts. It can boost or buck into 9 old
Cadet 240 V wall heaters. Stuffing 400 volts into a 240 VAC element can
get you a LOT more than rated wattage.
All the fans are tied to a 120 VAC transformer.
This is great for the colder weather times.. Abit toasty in the middle of
Summer.
The Nichorme on the 75Kw charger.. has dust on it right now.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 6:57 PM
Subject: Discharge load?
> What can I use to discharge a 6.5 ah 273 volt module with? I need to
> individually test these guys so I can try and recapture the glory of my
> first nimh pack.
>
> Mike
>
> PS Miami Vice the movie was pretty good.
>
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--- Begin Message ---
One of my future plans (in the works) is to have a real
charger for my truck, so I can dismantle the stack of
48V supplies that I use for charging my truck now,
then I can check if the 240V AC input of the 48V supply
will run on both my EV's 312V as well as on my Prius' 273V
battery.
If it does, then I'll use that 48V supply (jacked up to
52V or 54V if possible) to convert from the pack to the
48V batteries in my UPS so that I can keep the fridge/
freezer and hopefully the Internet as well as some lights
and fans running when the neigborhood gets dark as happened
to a friend two weeks ago - his side of the street was
4 days without power in the midst of the heatwave.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Martin K
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Inverter question
Hi Tim,
You're better off finding an inverter that can take a higher input
voltage such as 48v. Most inverters that take 48v actually accept a
range from 48-72v input. At that voltage (say 60v) you could probably
figure out a pack-tapping arrangement that would keep the discharge uniform.
I'm sure they exist but I don't know of any higher voltage input
inverters that may be easily available. How many volts is your truck?
--
Martin K
TiM M wrote:
> I'm looking into adding an inverter to my truck to
> power some Ac accessories. I've seen posts about
> people using their vehicles for back up power as well.
> I've been looking at the various offerings and can't
> seem to find one important number.. the input current
> required. Is it a simple watts to amps conversion? a
> 2000 watt invert /12V equals 166A input? This seems a
> bit high... I have a 45A @ Iota Dc supply, it puts out
> 14.2V @ 45A, that's a little over 600 watts. Is that
> the biggest inverter I could safely power with this?
>
> thanks for the input..
>
> TiM
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
NOT on the Mk2B there is no data there.
The MK3 Digi regs are doing that now, But they are getting closer to
shipping.
So you won't find any data on the Regbuss.. until you get Digi Regs.
We spent Saturday doing Reg testing and code adjustments. We have 30 Digi
regs living on one string. The max is supposed to be 32. So we are getting
closer.
Thei funny part is we have the Fiero as 1 to 15 and the PHEV pack as 16 to
30. We had to drop back to Rev 2.11C to get realiable functioning. We are at
2.20 but Er.. They sleep too well!
This Rev has to have the PC scanning the regs to wake up.. This is the draw
back right now. The charger or the PC are both supposed to wake up the regs.
But.. I have run the regs with the charger, and they charger gets to voltage
cutoff.. then the Regs kick on with the first scan of the software, The Regs
trap 16+ volts on the batteries.. meaning they we recording, But not Regging
or pulling back the charger. NOT Good. But..if so warned.. you can work
around this by lighting off the PC Scanner code before firing up the
charger.
So I am going to ship a batch... and see what develops.
The Regs are just too cool, even with bugs and issues, sitting and watching
your whole pack charge and adjusting the setpoints and hacking the scanner
code for better display screens it kinda fun !
We will be buying better Optos.. so we can get a more reliable batch of regs
next time.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: reg installations
> Question on regs:
>
> Is it possible to connect a laptop to the "daisy chain" of reg
> interlinks and read the individual batteries voltage?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I owned a PFC charger I could just use it to give people free
charges while I was load testing. What a shame wasting the power as
heat. Too bad it can't be put back into the grid! Then I'd get a bit of
cash back too.
Mike
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Use a staged electric furnas element set.
> It works pretty good.
> 240 VAC is close enough for 273 volts.
>
> I use a Windloader... a PFC50 charger set to contstant voltage
> loading. As a
> programmable battery..
> I can dial it up from 6 volts to 450 volts. It can boost or buck into
> 9 old
> Cadet 240 V wall heaters. Stuffing 400 volts into a 240 VAC element
> can
> get you a LOT more than rated wattage.
> All the fans are tied to a 120 VAC transformer.
> This is great for the colder weather times.. Abit toasty in the
> middle of
> Summer.
>
> The Nichorme on the 75Kw charger.. has dust on it right now.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 6:57 PM
> Subject: Discharge load?
>
>
> > What can I use to discharge a 6.5 ah 273 volt module with? I need
> to
> > individually test these guys so I can try and recapture the glory
> of my
> > first nimh pack.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > PS Miami Vice the movie was pretty good.
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris wrote:
> However it does run, and does have a nice ABS system.
Wow, I can use that!
This spring I was driving in town when the road was wet from
some fresh rain. I did 35 when the light turned yellow in
front of me. I thought that I was far enough away to stop, so
I braked and all that happened was that I locked up all
wheels and I was sliding into the intersection where the
light turned red, so I just released the brakes that I was
hardly touching any more at this time and rolled out of
the intersection, frustrated with the lack of ABS that can
bring me in a bad crash if this situation would have happened
with an ABS-equipped car in front of me.
Is ABS standard on some version of the S10 and can it be
deployed on our EVs with the vacuum pump?
This sounds like a good (safety) investment to me.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 5:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Still having weird driveline problems
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I suspect one motor phase simply has intermittently bad connection.
> You CAN drive on 2 remaining phases, but the symptoms will be
> as you've described.
I'm beginning to think so. Review of the motor showed that the main
power line pretty much comes out of the motor and hangs there in the
air. That could bounce around and cause problems is my guess.
It's now tied off to the top of the motor bracket (zero strain) and so
far the truck seems to be happy again. I really think this was prototype
zero in the US_Electricar world, this truck has all sorts of weirdness.
However it does run, and does have a nice ABS system.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How important is a splash guard under the vehicle to protect the motor?
Assuming I need one, what is a good, easily available material? I have
plexiglass, coroplast, and plywood, but none of those seem to be just right.
What is recommended?
Thanks
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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--- Begin Message ---
I have been a lurker on this list for several months, trying to make
the best decision about how an EV would fit into my life. I don't
need real long range, don't currently see the need for expressway
speeds, and just wanted something to get around town. After lots of
thought, and select queries of some list members, I did note an Elcar
for sale on the Denver EV list. A short conversation with the owner,
and I purchased it and trailered it home. I would like a car to be
able to have a top speed of 45 or 48 so I wouldn't worry about using
a short stretch of US highway in our town. Quick research showed the
Elcar (a thinly disguised Zagato Zele) had a Fiat 500 chassis which
was certainly safe at such speeds. The Zele uses complete Fiat
mechanicals from axles to brakes and suspension, even the Fiat
steering column and light switches. This looked ideal, and might
easily benefit from an upgrade in batteries, a more capable motor
(stock is a 1 HP Marelli) and perhaps an upgrade from the contactors
to an electronic controller.
The car came with a clear Texas title from the original Elcar dealer
to the current owner, and lots of paperwork. I went over to the
State of Illinois Secretary of State Office this morning to license
it. They refused to license it as an electric car, saying they
wanted to get a legal opinion as to what a car was. They asked me if
it could do 45 MPH, and I said it could not right now as it only has
4 batteries in it's eight battery compartment, but I planned to
purchase 8 new 12 v batteries. They said they wouldn't license until
I could prove to Springfield (3-1/2 hours away) that the car was
roadworthy. I would also have to test the car to prove this, but
they would not give me any kind of a license to test it.
I then tried to license it as an Antique Vehicle, which limits how
you can use the car in Illinois. It has to be over 25 years old, and
only driven to events and for testing and demonstrations. This
license would allow me to test what was needed to get to 45
MPH. They denied that, saying their decision was that only gasoline
cars could be licensed as antiques. I pointed out that other Elcars
are registered in Illinois, to no avail. I know two Baker Electrics
from 90 years ago are registered, but they would simply state that
they were not going to license any electrics as Antique Vehicles,
even if they were 25 years old. I pointed out that many antiques,
like my 1913 car, can't manage to do 30 MPH, much less 45. That
argument didn't win. They became quite hostile, telling me they
didn't reallly like "my kind of people." They made me pay a transfer
fee up front, giving me hope, but then denied the licensing
altogether and kept my transfer fee, saying it was only a
contribution to the state, and people like me could afford it.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to license this in
Illinois? One employee who obviously overheard the conversation took
me aside as I exited 3 hours and $25 lighter, and asked me to use
some connections, as that is how business is done. Does anyone have
any connections?
I could not have found a less responsive state
organization. Obviously they do not want to help the EV community
and are intent in setting up significant roadblocks.
Surely someone else has overcome this. How?
Rich Carroll
Palos Park, Illinois
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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