EV Digest 5733
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Hello. Ecycle Motor Question
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Tad OT but fun!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Tad OT but fun!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Are Lithium-Ion Electric Cars Safe?
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Destroyed Motor (was Rattling noise, lurching motion)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: buddy-batteries / parallel strings: Flooded vs. AGM
by Tony Furr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Is This T R U E ?? Or a Re-Print of OLD NEWS
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Is This T R U E ?? Or a Re-Print of OLD NEWS
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Destroyed Motor (was Rattling noise, lurching motion)
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Is This T R U E ?? Or a Re-Print of OLD NEWS,...... MORE old
sNews!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: A Look at the Wayland Invitational II 7/29/06 [part two]
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Is This T R U E ?? Or a Re-Print of OLD NEWS
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Voltage Measurement Circuit for Basic Stamp2
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Who Killed the Electric Car
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Destroyed Motor (was Rattling noise, lurching motion)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: ABS was: Still having weird driveline problems
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) looking
by "Marc Michon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Discharge load?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Tesla motor and controller [OT]
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Willamette Week article on the Wayland Invitational II
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Discharge load?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Voltage Measurement Circuit for Basic Stamp2
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Is This T R U E ?? Or a Re-Print of OLD NEWS
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Looking
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Elcar
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) questions from a newbie
by "Ron Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike,
This is a brushless DC motor, with permanent magnet rotor and the 3-phase
windings on the stator. The circuit board is the electronic commutator,
that does the function of brushes with MOSFET switches. (So it is quite
different construction than the E-tek brush type motors.) Because of the
electronic commutator, the CMG motors can be speed controlled using
conventional DC motor controllers, such as the Alltrax series, or operated
without a controller, with the built-in ramp-up/soft start, for constant
full speed applications.
The choice of model depends mainly on the RPM required, power/current level
and battery pack voltage. Contact me direct if interested - I am a
distributor for eCycle.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 12:58 PM
Subject: Hello. Ecycle Motor Question
I'm new to this list. I have a sailboat with an electric motor. I'm
looking
to upgrade the motor.
I am considering an Ecycle motor - CMG 13-24. The pertinent specs are:
Pancake motor similar to Etek
At 24 volts,
1800 RPM
400 AMP Max
.0855 ft lb / amp
rated 12 HP
15 lbs
high temperature cutoff
Forward/Reverse on attached circuit board
Does anyone have knowledge or experience with this motor? Is it
dependable,
rugged, etc?
Thanks.
Mike Kaplan
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bob
WoW I haven't had that much fun in years, hehehe. I bet not as much there
huh?
I'm curious now keep trying, hehehe
Cya
Jim
Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seen here:
http://www.techreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=17250&ch=biztech&sc=&pg=1
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/q6klk
A snip:
Thursday, August 03, 2006
Are Lithium-Ion Electric Cars Safe?
The use of a type of battery with a history of overheating raises
safety concerns.
By Kevin Bullis
Laptops equipped with lithium-ion batteries occasionally overheat and
catch fire. This has some people concerned about the use of this type
of battery in new electric sports cars and kits for converting
conventional cars and hybrid vehicles into all-electric cars.
It's an exciting time for electric vehicles -- with regular
announcements of increasing storage capacities for battery materials
(see "Battery Breakthrough") and exotic, high-priced vehicles slated to
come onto the market, such as the recently announced sports car from
Tesla Motors of San Carlos, CA. But electric vehicles have failed in
the past. If they're going to succeed this time around, they'll need to
win over the general consumer, and that will mean, among other things,
demonstrating that the powerful battery packs are safe.
[end of snip]
Tks
Lock
Human/electric hybrid in Toronto
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jude an' EVerybody;
Big help here?? But looking at your carnage brought stuff out of my
dusty EV memories, with a 9 incher. I was just driving along in my Rabbit,
about 45 or so, in 3rd? I really don't remember, at 60 volts on my homemade
contacter controller when I suddonly got that feeling. Car shuddering, like
somebody threw out an anchor! Pulled off the road, thinking something was
wrong with my wiring? Maybe shunting out the field?? Nothing amiss, started
off and when I went to 60 volts, car shuddered again. Well, hell with it!
Gotta get home, car went OK at 30 volts, creeping along at 15 or so. beats
the shit out of WALKING, and I had to get to the train, anyhow. Dumped car,
went off to work in the Jetta.
At teardown, couldn't find anythinhg out of the ordenery. Schlepped the
motor off to a forklift place, THEY checked it out and founded a grounded
armature coil. Of course ThEY didn't wanna touch it" Throw it away, will
cost more to rewind it than it's worth"SHIT! That's when a net search I
found Warfield Electric. Jerry W. sed "send it out" we can fix it, for 300
bux they rewound the whole thing! We are still honeymooning, 6 years later.
So That MIGHT have been your issue with the motor BEFORE it died. Don't
throw it away!!! Jerry fixes them, no matter HOW bad they look!!Cheeper than
a new motor! I took one out last year, to Chicagoland, dropped it off for a
rebuild, picked it up on my return flite from Woodburn, saving about 250 bux
in freight!It was about like yours in the pix. Wish Amtrak still did package
express;out of FLA you could put it on the "Silly Metior" to NY and CT and I
could pick it here.Or if anybody else is driving up from FLA to NYC and CT?
Last year Jerry at Warfield fixed a DESTROYED motor for about 700 bux?!One
of the guyz in our EAA Chapter oversped going down hill in First!?
So, anybody in the east with a blown out motor? Get it to me so I
can"Ship" it for ya!What's a few hundred lbs in a Prius, anyhow?
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jude Anthony" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Destroyed Motor (was Rattling noise, lurching motion)
> Jude Anthony wrote:
> > I blew up the motor. Pictures on my website later today.
> Pictures are now on my website:
> http://judebert.com/wasted_youth/EV/Disaster.html
>
> Any comments welcome. I'm not quitting now, and I don't want this to
> happen again.
> > Anybody got a cheap 9" in Florida, near Orlando? If I bring this
> > broken motor to a shop, will they be able to say what the problem *was*?
> Still open to offers. ;-P
>
> On a more serious note, I'm soliciting motor recommendations. It's
> about a 3000lb EV with a Curtis 1231C. I need to stay with the same
> bolt pattern for the adapter, but if an 8" or Warp will have some
> advantage, I'd like to know before I plunk down another $1500.
>
> Thanks,
> Jude
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm also looking for opinions on parallel packs. I've recently
purchased an EV that was sold as a 144 volt system running 12 Hawker
SLAs. Turns out it's running 24 of them in parallel pairs. They are
bundled with a wrap and have solid copper bridges, so the previous
owner didn't realize.
Photos here show the front pack pairs: http://homepage.mac.com/
michellecohen/PhotoAlbum28.html
What kind of special considerations should be given when checking
voltage, charging, etc.? There is a BattPro (Wilde EVolution) module
at the top of each pair. Haven't found much info about these. Can
anyone shed some light for me as well?
Tony Furr
76 Lancia Scorpion
On Aug 7, 2006, at 8:15 AM, Seth Myers wrote:
TO: anyone
I'm looking at a 72 volt system on a car someone else
converted, for around town use (max speed 55 or so). They use some
deep cycle flooded (I think) 12 volt batteries, two groups of 6 in
parallel. I imagine a 72 volt system might
be better constructed with 12x 6 volt batteries, so none are in
parallel (though one pack of 6 is under the hood, other
pack is in the trunk - maybe all the connection issues are why they
split the pakc in two (?) ).
However, I'm thinking that maybe parallel batteries / buddy
batteries are more of an issue with AGM batteries than with
floodeds (??). It's bad because of unequal resistances / states of
paralleled batteries, so uneven discharging (and discharging),
right? (and floodeds would just result in some batteries needing
watered more often, whereas with agms,
the damage to the battery would commence more immediately (?) )
(I've really got to just get me one uf them that neet ev's so I
kin lurn this stuf fur maself! Until then, however, I might as well
get a little advice from the veterans ... I always enjoy the
tutorials on basic issues like these, but any individual
experiences are also very instructive to me)
Lots of questions, thanks for any tips,
Seth Myers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is FORD REALLY building EV's and we didn't hear about it till NOW ??
Read the Story off of the GOOGLE EV NEWS FEED At:
http://www.ecoworld.com/Home/Articles2.cfm?TID=277
And then some one, let us know if it is TRUE or Not.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 08:39:18PM -0700, Steven Lough wrote:
> Is FORD REALLY building EV's and we didn't hear about it till NOW ??
>
> Read the Story off of the GOOGLE EV NEWS FEED At:
> http://www.ecoworld.com/Home/Articles2.cfm?TID=277
>
> And then some one, let us know if it is TRUE or Not.
Unfortunately, this is old news :(
I think this deal was inked ~2001, and fell apart some time later.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your motor was overrevved. I blew up a 9-inch ADC in 1996 when I towed
it with the transmission in 1st gear. I estimated that my motor was turning
about 11000 rpm when the commutator exploded. It looked like your motor
only worse. The ends of the armature coils which had been connected to the
commutator jammed into the field winding on the stator and stopped the
motor.
The key in the coupling sheared and the coupling spun on the shaft.
I think I still have a bucket containing broken bits and pieces.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jude Anthony" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: Destroyed Motor (was Rattling noise, lurching motion)
Jude Anthony wrote:
I blew up the motor. Pictures on my website later today.
Pictures are now on my website:
http://judebert.com/wasted_youth/EV/Disaster.html
Any comments welcome. I'm not quitting now, and I don't want this to
happen again.
Anybody got a cheap 9" in Florida, near Orlando? If I bring this broken
motor to a shop, will they be able to say what the problem *was*?
Still open to offers. ;-P
On a more serious note, I'm soliciting motor recommendations. It's about
a 3000lb EV with a Curtis 1231C. I need to stay with the same bolt
pattern for the adapter, but if an 8" or Warp will have some advantage,
I'd like to know before I plunk down another $1500.
Thanks,
Jude
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:39 PM
Subject: Is This T R U E ?? Or a Re-Print of OLD NEWS
> Is FORD REALLY building EV's and we didn't hear about it till NOW ??
>
> Read the Story off of the GOOGLE EV NEWS FEED At:
> http://www.ecoworld.com/Home/Articles2.cfm?TID=277
>
> And then some one, let us know if it is TRUE or Not.
>
> -- Hi EVerybody;
a heartwarming story! With the P.O. it isn't technology, it's
politics! When I was with Bob Aronson, At Electric Fuel Propulsion, of
Detroit, we did a few cute little Kalmar of Sweden, mail trux. They were a
nicely built fibergl;as body on a DAF chassis setup, not unlike the Dutch "
Daffidil" sedan, which used a belt drive like a snowmobile. THAT was the
diff, too, what's a little belt slippage among friends on turns? We used a
11 inch Baker motor, direct drive. Challange was adding weight to the
flyball governer setup to replace the vacuum setup that " shifted" the belt
ratio. If ya ever had an old wind up Victrola motor apart, or seen an old
steam engine governer? You got the picture. The end result was a sweet
running mail truk! Glass smooth, belt slippage a bit. Oh yes if you floored
it it howled and slipped like hell, but if you didn't drive it hard, it
whispered along any route the PO wanted to try it on.It was a GREAT
stop-an'-goer! Your grandma coulda drove it. In the SECOND Clean Air Car
Race of 1971 we ran one from Boston to Pasadina, fairly uneventfully, except
for having GE resolder our comm coils in Buffalo, or was it Schenectedy?We
ran up to 90 m.p. charge across the desert. Of the EFP vehicles I was
involved with that one was the most promising. IMHO. Damn P.O. finked out on
us, Though. Politics again, as today, thousands of years later. Not
technology, and we didn't have Oatmar's Zillas and Riches Charging
systems!Or Warp motors. ......Youse guyz! Ya HAVE the Good Stuff on a Silver
Platter, nowadaze, you wouldn't BELIEVE the shit we had to deal with back
then! No List, Gasp! Purpose built stuff. Give me a Kalmar like we had then,
a 9 inch, a Zilla a PFC WhatEVer, NOW you have a mail truk with an aditude!
Well, not a GP, but I guess you COULD deliver mail in GP?Still.Finish your
route pretty quick. Now if you could get the truck to FOLLOW the mailman,
like thew old Horse drawn rigs, he whistled and the faithful old nag
followed along WITH the wagon.
Just a few postal thoughts
My two Stamps worth
Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Thanks Roy, for your two part story all about that fun night of electric
drag racing and EV fellowship.
Roy LeMeur wrote:
On behalf of NEDRA I would like to thank Rich Rudman in particular for
coming through with the best high-throughput, portable, EV charging
station I have ever seen, and not a generator in sight! Just a sea of
green boxes and lots of large cables. A big change from previous
EVents thanks to Rich.
Yes, a HUGE thank you to my friend Madman Rudman, not only for all his
labor and time he put into it, but also for Manzanita Micro's financial
contributions in terms of travel costs and parts used in this wonderful
power distribution box.
Not to minimize Rich's efforts though, I want to point out that Otmar
through his company Cafe Electric also put in time on this project, and
he provided those all important h-e-a-v-y 4/0 Cam Loc equipped power
cables that along with parts supplied by Rich, made the box possible.
The thank you also extends to my work co-worker Steve Starks for taking
his full sized pickup and an enclosed trailer the 160 mile round trip to
Oat's and back (how much did all that fuel cost?), not only hauling
California Poppy to and from the races (he also had fun driving it), but
bringing those bulky heavy cables up to Portland from Corvallis.
The new Manzanita Micro breaker box with four 14-50 outlets fed by
monster 4/0 input cables worked perfectly. Rich was an excellent
safety monitor and didn't need to bring out the 2x4 even once :^D As
a dress rehearsal for charging at the National EVent, it couldn't have
been done better.
Yes, it worked perfectly! No stink'n noisy generators roaring, no fumes,
no super-heated work truck shop, just silent AC power hydroelectrically
fed from Bonneville Dam on the mighty Columbia River. Perhaps it was
summed up best by the writer from one of Portland's more interesting
small newspapers 'Willamette Week' in the story 'Wired for Speed':
No one in the crowd of 800 seemed particularly keen to watch the EV
guys plug in and calmly top up their batteries. But out in the lanes,
LeMeur said, people were more excited about the electric racers.
Yeah, gone are the days of eye-tearing throat burning fumes and yelling
over the gensets....thank goodness for that!
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > Is FORD REALLY building EV's and we didn't hear about it till NOW ??
> >
> > Read the Story off of the GOOGLE EV NEWS FEED At:
> > http://www.ecoworld.com/Home/Articles2.cfm?TID=277
> >
> > And then some one, let us know if it is TRUE or Not.
>
> Unfortunately, this is old news :(
>
> I think this deal was inked ~2001, and fell apart some time later.
>
and weren't these the vehicles whose 8v batteries Blue Sky used to
recondition Ranger packs?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
> I sort of designed a circuit to measure pack voltage with a Basic
> Stamp 2. Would somebody please take at look at the design
> http://www.littleriverranch.com/evbs.html
You've had lots of good comments so far, but I can add a few.
I think your circuit will work in general, though it won't be
particularly accurate or stable. There is no noise filtering, so you'd
have to take many readings and average them together. There is no
voltage reference, and the optocoupler will drift with temperature and
time. But with some hand tweaking and careful custom software, it will
probably work well enough for your purposes.
The approach Roger Stockton referenced at
<http://www.parallax.com/dl/docs/cols/nv/vol1/col/nv5.pdf>
should work just as well, but uses fewer parts. Its accuracy and
stability are also limited by the optocoupler. It makes better use of
the Stamp's instruction set; the POT command will automatically average
out noise during the conversion. For a high-voltage battery, add a zener
diode in series with the LED and resistor to drop most of the voltage;
this will make the current change in the LED much larger and so improve
performance.
As others have noted, using optocouplers for linear signals is not
particularly accurate. An approach like Victor Tikhonov's is good
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/dc_opto.gif
but still takes a lot of parts and careful calibration.
I prefer to convert the voltage (or other parameter being measured) to a
frequency, and then coupling this frequency thru the optocoupler. A
BASIC Stamp can measure frequency directly. Variations in the
optocoupler have no effect. Frequency automatically filters out noise.
There are special V-to-F converter chips that do a good job of this
(AD537, AD7740, LM331, etc.) Or, you can use a simple cheap chip like a
555 timer -- it will be less accurate than the V-to-F chips, but better
than they analog approaches.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
> If GM had taken this on themselves, I doubt we would have seen
> anything like the EV1.
Oh, I don't know about that! :-)
Look up the specs on the Electrovairs. They were electric Corvairs that
GM built in 1964-66. The basic specs were nearly identical to the EV1!
- Both had high-tech, high-voltage battery packs
- Both used 3-phase 100kw AC inverters
- Both used 3-phase oil-cooled, 13,000 rpm AC induction motors
- Both had a single ratio drive (no transmission)
- Both had the same range, and same top speed
- Both cars weighed the same, and were about the same height, width,
and length. The Electrovair was a bit longer, as it was a 4-seater.
Pretty amazing for 1966!
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doing 20 MPH in 1st gear should not seriously over-rev a motor,
unless your troubles are caused by a failure in your gearbox
or in a slip somewhere - either in the clutch or in a coupling
between motor and gearbox, or by accidentally moving the gear
to neutral position, so the motor can make higher revs than
can be explained from the speed you were driving.
I agree that the motor looks like it did serious over 10,000 RPM
and threw the comm apart and also caused all other parts of the
comm to come off the shaft.
The only other explanation I can think of is that the commutator
was not in good shape to begin with (already cracked? not round?
causing dancing brushes and things like that that could explain
the weird sounds) and causing it to easily disintegrated when
you were running it at redline.
I think you should give Jim Husted a call.
(See also his post on this subject).
When he is done with your motor, it is better than new.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Tom Shay
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Destroyed Motor (was Rattling noise, lurching motion)
Your motor was overrevved. I blew up a 9-inch ADC in 1996 when I towed
it with the transmission in 1st gear. I estimated that my motor was turning
about 11000 rpm when the commutator exploded. It looked like your motor
only worse. The ends of the armature coils which had been connected to the
commutator jammed into the field winding on the stator and stopped the
motor.
The key in the coupling sheared and the coupling spun on the shaft.
I think I still have a bucket containing broken bits and pieces.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jude Anthony" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: Destroyed Motor (was Rattling noise, lurching motion)
> Jude Anthony wrote:
>> I blew up the motor. Pictures on my website later today.
> Pictures are now on my website:
> http://judebert.com/wasted_youth/EV/Disaster.html
>
> Any comments welcome. I'm not quitting now, and I don't want this to
> happen again.
>> Anybody got a cheap 9" in Florida, near Orlando? If I bring this broken
>> motor to a shop, will they be able to say what the problem *was*?
> Still open to offers. ;-P
>
> On a more serious note, I'm soliciting motor recommendations. It's about
> a 3000lb EV with a Curtis 1231C. I need to stay with the same bolt
> pattern for the adapter, but if an 8" or Warp will have some advantage,
> I'd like to know before I plunk down another $1500.
>
> Thanks,
> Jude
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris,
Maybe the stock S10 is lighter in the rear,
but as you can see on the EV Album:
http://evalbum.com/694
the weight rear is higher than my truck's front.
With me in the truck, the F/R weights are
approx 2400/2660 so there is 10% more weight
on the rear axle than the front.
During braking this will shift of course, but
when skidding there is almost no braking force
and the rear will be heavier than front.
Agree that even without physical brakes the
100+ Amp regen can provide significant braking.
So I will need to learn to let the brakes go
and reduce the regen to the 20 Amps of the
"motor drag simulation".
On very slippery surfaces, that may even be
too much and the only thing I could do to
cancel regen is move the shifter to N or
(very counter-intuitive) push the accelerator
to get close to 0 regen, so the wheels start
rolling and I can brake again.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ABS was: Still having weird driveline problems
Cor van de Water wrote:
> I probably can upgrade my technique for braking as well, as I
> was so dumbfonded from this unexpected skidding that I forgot
> to stop braking until I was in the intersection or I can do
> the recommended "stabbing", which essentially tries to simulate
> the operation of ABS. (Brake until wheels lock, then release
> until wheels roll again and repeat).
> (I did my Class B theory test a week ago).
Another thing to watch out for in an AC based (maybe shunt as well) car
is the regen issues. This can cause significant front-brake bias issues
and yes, it is possible to skid a wheel on regen alone (tested with full
regen on snow).
The Prizm brakes very well, but all the weight is low and centered. The
S10 is a lot lighter in the rear, I can see it chipping without ABS.
Chris
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more than very very expensive
i met western US sales rep last year
if you want to order 10,000 made to your specs you can get
if not you can not purchase
sweet motor though
Marco
Hello Don,
The difficulty in making a magnetic motor for the last 70 years, is that
they could not get the rotor to change it magnetic poles of a magnet as it
turns.
This is where brushes come in, where the magnetic poles of the commentator
changes, to keep the motor running.
But last month, the Liverpool Laboratories in England was able to have a
magnetic pole magnet change it poles every time it pass through a magnetic
field of only magnets.
The alloys in the rotating magnet is made up of three types of metals to be
able to accomplish this.
This motors will be first produce for a disk drive in laptop computers. The
batteries should last 10 to 20 times longer in these units.
This was in a newspaper article last month.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: Looking
Take a look at UQM (unique mobility). They build perm magnet motors,
small
and large. Very expensive.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Phelps
Sent: August 7, 2006 3:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Looking
Ok I have only been into this Electric car thing for a heart beat but.. I
can't belive that I am the only one that thinks a permanent magnet D C
motor is the shiss.. by way of being more efficient and not needing a 1000
dollar controler for changing the speeds.. maybe even not a Transmission..
well in any case .. I am sure that some body out there knows where I can
get
one.. Why is there not more interest in this.. Availabity?
I am looking for a 15 to 20 horse D C motor with Permanent Magnets New
and
Or used..
Who sells them???
Thanks Zed
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Either three phase or single phase will work. It needs to be rated for the
power you intend to put through it.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lee Hart" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Discharge load?
> Would it need to be a single phase induction motor?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > What a shame wasting the power as heat. Too bad it can't be put
> > > back into the grid! Then I'd get a bit of cash back too.
> >
> > Ah, but you *can*! The simplest way is to use your test pack to run a DC
> > motor. Use the motor to spin an AC induction motor. When this induction
> > motor spins slightly faster than synchronous speed, it becomes an
> > induction generator -- it pushes the power back into the grid!
> >
> > Induction generators are also pretty safe. It won't generate anything
> > unless there is already 120vac 60hz present. If the grid goes down, the
> > induction generator automatically stops generating, too.
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 2006-08-07 at 06:31 +0000, Mike Phillips wrote:
> Looks like from all of the pics that you are making headway. Have you
> looked into aircooling the igbt's at all?
For about five years, yes.
My first high-power controller, for a series-motor, used liquid cooling.
It was quite successful so I plan to repeat the design. I will strive
to eliminate leaks this time, though.
- Arthur
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Actually its a pretty well done article, coming from an outsider.
Especially the part about "hauling ass". I wish they would say that kind of
stuff on the TV news clips.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
>Roy LeMeur wrote
>
> If you decide to email this author please be gentle, she is new to EVs and
> has made a couple of mistakes and misconceptions in the article.
>
> And... she will also be attending/reporting on the Late Night Nationals.
>
> Here-
> http://www.wweek.com/editorial/3239/7828
>
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Mike,
If you have a 3-phase service then you can use a 3-phase motor,
otherwise it must be a single phase one.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 8:08 PM
To: Lee Hart
Subject: Re: Discharge load?
Would it need to be a single phase induction motor?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > What a shame wasting the power as heat. Too bad it can't be put
> > back into the grid! Then I'd get a bit of cash back too.
>
> Ah, but you *can*! The simplest way is to use your test pack to run a DC
> motor. Use the motor to spin an AC induction motor. When this induction
> motor spins slightly faster than synchronous speed, it becomes an
> induction generator -- it pushes the power back into the grid!
>
> Induction generators are also pretty safe. It won't generate anything
> unless there is already 120vac 60hz present. If the grid goes down, the
> induction generator automatically stops generating, too.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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The simplest circuit looks to me to be a bunch of HV instrumentation
amps and one PIC to collect the data, with an optically isolated bus
going from the PIC to the head unit.
This can be turned off through the PIC and will draw no leakage current
from the batteries. The current shunt's ADC can also be located with
the collection unit.
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
Michaela Merz wrote:
I sort of designed a circuit to measure pack voltage with a Basic
Stamp 2. Would somebody please take at look at the design
http://www.littleriverranch.com/evbs.html
You've had lots of good comments so far, but I can add a few.
I think your circuit will work in general, though it won't be
particularly accurate or stable. There is no noise filtering, so you'd
have to take many readings and average them together. There is no
voltage reference, and the optocoupler will drift with temperature and
time. But with some hand tweaking and careful custom software, it will
probably work well enough for your purposes.
The approach Roger Stockton referenced at
<http://www.parallax.com/dl/docs/cols/nv/vol1/col/nv5.pdf>
should work just as well, but uses fewer parts. Its accuracy and
stability are also limited by the optocoupler. It makes better use of
the Stamp's instruction set; the POT command will automatically average
out noise during the conversion. For a high-voltage battery, add a zener
diode in series with the LED and resistor to drop most of the voltage;
this will make the current change in the LED much larger and so improve
performance.
As others have noted, using optocouplers for linear signals is not
particularly accurate. An approach like Victor Tikhonov's is good
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/dc_opto.gif
but still takes a lot of parts and careful calibration.
I prefer to convert the voltage (or other parameter being measured) to a
frequency, and then coupling this frequency thru the optocoupler. A
BASIC Stamp can measure frequency directly. Variations in the
optocoupler have no effect. Frequency automatically filters out noise.
There are special V-to-F converter chips that do a good job of this
(AD537, AD7740, LM331, etc.) Or, you can use a simple cheap chip like a
555 timer -- it will be less accurate than the V-to-F chips, but better
than they analog approaches.
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Check this site:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Green_Machines/The_Big_Charge_Part_III.S196.A1104.html
Rich in Virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:39 PM
Subject: Is This T R U E ?? Or a Re-Print of OLD NEWS
Is FORD REALLY building EV's and we didn't hear about it till NOW ??
Read the Story off of the GOOGLE EV NEWS FEED At:
http://www.ecoworld.com/Home/Articles2.cfm?TID=277
And then some one, let us know if it is TRUE or Not.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: 8/5/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is in the details and the cost
Torque drops linearly with rpm and that fixed field means useable
torque is limited to lower 1/2 of the rpms. They are more efficient but
only in a narrow band of rpms. In low load situations they are not so
efficient.
You can get a lot of torque in a small package and that is why the
hybrids use them.
If you over-amp the motor you can ruin the magnets, So... Samarium
cobalt magnets are best and neobydium iron are second best. These are
costly in EV sizes. Like $17,000.
But the hybrids may give us an inroad to these motors. Perhaps we
can get 4 of the honda IMA motors from a wrecking yard soon and put them
on a single shaft. instead of three gas cylinders and 1 motor, we have a
4 rotor Eletric motor!
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Hi Rich,
Don't let the bureaucrats get you down.
When I went to register my first Gizmo, the DMV in Maine said no. They would
not recognize the fact that it was a motorcycle, even though, at that time, it
was in production and was registered in 49 other states as a motorcycle.
I was very polite and left the office.
I wrote my concise thoughts down in an email and sent it to the Seretary of
State and cc'd the governor.
Two days later a nice lady from the state capital called up and we talked
through the issues and they let me register it as a moped. I did not even need
a motorcycle license. Even though I told her I had the fastest, most expensive
moped in the state.
What was their big issue?? The Gizmo did not have handlebars!
Anyway, I have had a bunch of Elcars in my life (still have one with an
original 2km on it and the original shipping plastic on the seats, if there are
any whacko EV collectors out there--it is not cheap!).
Elcars do run pretty well with an electronic controller and something like a
Perm motor or an ADC 6.7". The transmission is a fixed ratio that is about 7:1,
so from that point of view, only a series motor will make it run about 40mph.
That is as fast as I have ever gone in one and it is somewhat unnerving. It is
much more stable than a Citicar, but was not designed for faster speeds.
The trans was the weak point. About 1/3 of the vehicles we got had broken trans
gears. I think people tried to start in 48v, rather than 24v and broke things
from the strain!
The front end is a little squirrelly with the suspension needing some beefing
up with a horizontal connector to tie the two channel iron pieces that stick
down from the chassis.
We bought our 13 vehicles from a former dealer (yeah, 13 of them) and he
included the factory issued angle iron pieces for the modification. Look at the
front end and you can figure this out pretty quickly.
Seems to make a lot more sense to register as an antique since it might be of
limited utility and this gets you around the issue of their "approving" it for
"normal" use while you decide if it is what you need.
I think benign letters to the bureaucrats, indicating the silliness of what was
thrown at you might work, it did in Maine, but then Maine sure ain't Illinois!
Tom in Maine
www.hotandcold.tv
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I am a UK based with a 45 mile daily commute which is starting to bug my
conscience and pocket.
I need a vehicle that will cover my commute at motorway speeds (60-70mph -
80 if possible). The easy route is to buy but there is no EV commercially
available in the UK that will meet my needs which leaves the kit/conversion
option.
I am a lapsed engineer so the project interests me but I need to shake the
dust off my technical training & realistically work out what this will cost
me. There are a number of books listed in the FAQ which could do the trick,
can someone give me a recommendation?
Also, my research so far appears to preclude lead acid battery technology
for the distance I need. Has lithium battery technology reached the point
that it can cost justify itself in an EV & where can I get more info?
Ron
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