EV Digest 5737
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV digest 5720
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) You know you're a list member when...
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NEDRA Late Night Nationals Flyer
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: You know you're a list member when...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Found the truck problem
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: GM's excellent plan...
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Still Shaky on Non-Isolation
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Checking out the mid '80s Toyota Van as a conversion candidate
by "Ryan Plut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Discharge load?
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: [uselectricar] Found the truck problem
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Still Shaky on Non-Isolation
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Saturn parts
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) JET Electrica A/C
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: You know you're a list member when...
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Ecycle Motor Question
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Motor cooling, suck or blow
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: GM's excellent plan...
by "ROBERT GOUDREAU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Discharge load?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Doug: Ecycle Motor Question
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Seppo wrote:
>> What about having the armature and field not coordinated but
>> controlling them separately? You would have the accelerator
>> pedal controlling the Zilla as usual, and then a separate
>> potentiometer for the field, connected to a lever in the cabin
>> ('gear selector').
Yes, that's pretty much how it would feel. Changing the field current
while holding the throttle constant would be a lot like shifting the
transmission. Moving it slowly changes speed like a continuously
variable transmission; moving it in jerks or steps would be like
power-shifting gears.
Steve Gaarder wrote:
> Now that's simplicity, and appeals to my geek side. I'd hate to
> have to teach a spouse or friend how to use it, tho.
It's odd, but figure-out-able. My first EV worked a lot like this.
> A more sophisticated version would be to have the "normal" position
> of the lever let the field vary according to the armature current
Yes. The precise relationship between field and armture current is the
"programming" that one does to any sepex or AC motor drive. A standard
series motor is just a special case where field current = armature
current.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Martin K wrote:
As far as your Elec-trak goes, I hope you're not going to try to run
your low voltage DC motor on 120 AC? It would hopefully just blow a
breaker. I can't imagine how it would do anything useful. A DC motor
with a commutator is different than a synchronous motor with slip-rings.
The commutator chops up the incoming DC to convert it to AC - all motors
are AC on the inside, you know (as far as we're concerned) .. the slip
rings just transfer the fixed frequency AC to the wound rotor. This is
why you can't just flip the switch on a synchronous motor - it will draw
insane currents while the mass of the rotor attempts to come up to speed.
Induction motors are completely different, intriguing machines.
What the Elec-trak has is a 36 volt DC motor that spins a 110 volt AC
generator. Field power is provided on the DC side; I think that's what
locks the frequency at around 60hz anyway despite voltage (I guess it's
a compound-shunt type of "motor" on the DC side.
The thought is to use this rotary inverter to sell back power from my
shed's solar system to the grid. Actually it's more a proof of concept;
what I would really do is probably take a 1/2 hp AC motor and link it to
a 1/2 HP DC motor that runs on 24 volts at 3700ish RPM. This would allow
me to "sell down" the shed's solar batteries to the grid without having
to buy a string of 100 watt grid tie inverters.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
I had some time on my hands as I drove back from Portland after lunch with
Wayland and the usual motor run. I added some to those I had thought up
earlier. These are in no particular order and I hope you enjoy, sorry if I
missed anyone.
Cya
Jim Husted
You know you're a list member when...
You think of the Geico lizard as a baby Zilla.
You want to know what wh/hr the Everready bunny gets.
You have a power outage and you hope Rudman's OK.
You think of Bob Rice when you get stopped by a train.
You wonder where the hell Wayland was "after" you blew something up.
You realize that info by those who know how to spell, or do spell check, is
worthless.
You ponder whether anyone reads your posts after no responce to a well
thought out and typed posting, see above!
You drive by a Hooters and wonder if Wayland's giving rides.
You know AC / DC is a war and not a band, hehe.
You Know Gone Postal is a racer and not another mailman fit.
You know that Lawless Ind. makes parade floats and dragsters and not bad guys.
The Mormans avoid your house as you'll talk for 3 hours about EV's.
You find yourself at the Mormans house convinced you can convert them, LMAO!
You find that after a vacation you have 1400 emails to go through.
You find 1400 more by the time you went through the first batch.
You think of wierd ideas like making your bumper an electro-magnet and being
able
to hook onto that semi-truck, and would that be considered a hibred.
Your moto is: I used to have a life, now I have a list, hehehe.
You wonder if anyone from Florida will EVer build a fast EV.
You vote for them at Drag Times even though they don't, LMAO!
You consider yourself an EV'er even if you just have the donor body!
You learn G'day is Australian for Hey.
Death to all spammers is not just your feelings but another listee.
Everytime you see a Prius you picture Rich in the back with a set of jumper
cable.
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1ยข/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Chip
I totally dig the artwork, I see you even did the Siamese motor setup on WZ
to funny. I tweaked the CE plate on GP's front motor though so you might have
to do some editing, lmao, sorry for the late notice, hehehe. Seriously, it
totally rocks, can't wait to get me a T-shirt. I saw Wayland had it as a
screensaver today on his laptop even.
Cya
Jim Husted
Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Folks
Here are two versions, a GIF and PDF.
http://www.retro-electro.org/Late_Night_Nats_Flyer.pdf
http://www.retro-electro.org/late_night_flyer.gif
The t-shirts will be similar.
Enjoy
Roy
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Race Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: You know you're a list member when...
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 19:15:05 -0700 (PDT)
Hey all
I had some time on my hands as I drove back from Portland after lunch
with Wayland and the usual motor run. I added some to those I had thought
up earlier. These are in no particular order and I hope you enjoy, sorry
if I missed anyone.
Cya
Jim Husted
You know you're a list member when...
You have a power outage and you hope Rudman's OK.
Thanks Jim, this one especially killed me :-)
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Took the truck out this evening, sure enough after a mile it died again
at the side of the road. Massive shudder, and so forth.
This time I popped the hood, and disconnected the encoder. Truck moves
with no problems at 2mph. Creep creep. Plug in, shudder. Unplug, creep.
Shut down, wait a min, wiggle the encoder wire, truck runs fine. Drove home.
So it's either the encoder or a loose wire on the encoder cable. I'll
take it apart tomorrow, but at least now I am 100% positive it is *NOT*
a driveline problem.
Thank God.
CZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm sorry to say I don't understand what this post has to do with EVs.
David Roden
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = =
Mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
reply offlist, please use my email address from this page :
http://www.evdl.org/help
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The thing is, Jim, that I'm just trying to idiot-proof my EV as much as
possible, because I'm all too well acquainted with the idiot that will be
driving it.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 6:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Still Shaky on Non-Isolation
Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Now what if I touch a battery terminal and stand in a puddle of water
instead of touching the car chassis. Is there an electrical path back to
the GFI breaker that will trip it in this instance?
Hey Bill, all
Two questions here, first, why would anyone want to do this??
Second is, you don't have some hidden death fetish now do you?? Force us
into a list intervention, hehe. I guess I have 3 questions, would this
qualify for a Hall of Flames pic if te GFI didn't open??
I know I'm sick!
Cya
Jim Husted
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I'd like to put my two cents in here, for what it's worth. I don't believe you
can modify a unibody design without *serious* modifications. Are you a welder?
Toyota Vans are not very aerodynamic to start with, and that cannot be
improved. Then, swapping from 4wd to 2wd will be *way* more trouble than it's
worth.
I'm a newbie, and a lurker on this site, watching and planning my own EV. My
choice of an ideal platform would be a Jaguar XJ S-Type, a two seater with a
V-12 (that's right, a V-12) that had a miniscule back seat that allowed them to
claim "fastest (or whatever)...in it's class". That could be removed. The
suspension system is made to handle the weight, so no mods needed there. I
also expect the components removed and added will be about the same weight (I'd
do an Excel spreadsheet of course). Everything should be visible and
accessible without having to remove something else to get at it. Loading
batteries, controllers, and motor into an ICE car that's been stripped of its
engine shouldn't unbalance the EV, so ideally everything should fit where
everything was taken out. That's true of the Jaguar. Wiring runs would be as
short as possible, because everything is right there in the front. Well, except
for the ultracaps that would have to go on the floor of the trunk. Ot!
herwise, air cooling will be easy.
(As a long-time Mercedes Benz owner, I initially considered the late 1980's
early 1990's Mercedes 190 on the W124 chassis, which tips the scales at 1,080
kg (2,376 lbs). It's one of the lighter Benzes. But then I feared the car would
be unbalanced, or with batteries split between the trunk and under the hood
there would be no room for luggage. And the base car, even a junker, would be
ex$pen$ive.)
I found the XJ S-Type is cheaper than a MB. I found a 1988 XJS V12,
automatic, that has a curb weight of an astonishing 3,706 lbs! BUT I also
found that the V-12 ICE is about 1/3 the weight, so removing that and the ICE
support systems and the "back seat" would leave me with a stripped vehicle of
around 2,000 lbs. I think that's reasonable. Anybody in the UK back me up?
Typically, ratty 1980's Jaguars seem to be going for about $4,000 on E-Bay, and
the parts could be resold there. Your "doner" costs would ultimately be maybe
$3,000. (Jaguar purists will hate you, but so what? You're being the ultimate
recycler.).
As an alternative, there's the Volvo 1800 ("the Saint's car"), a car similar in
layout to the Jag but smaller.
Just my opinion. Ryan Plut
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Checking out the mid '80s Toyota Van as a conversion candidate
> You know, you're right! I've been trying to figure
> out what to do for a decent batt. van.
> Chrysler 80's: light, available in stick, but no
> headrests!
> Ford Aerostar: mostly automatics. Mechanical issues.
> GM: Heavy. Sticks?
>
> That mid-engine design would have some sweet handling
> with Pb-acid in it! Seats come up and forward for
> access. Would be nice if the potbox, DCDC, controller
> et.al were easy access. On the flip side, not too
> much air going to the controller...
> Should be interesting!
>
> --- Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I've been looking at these little Toyota vans for a
>> while. They seem to
>> me to be a reasonable candidate for conversion. I
>> found one in a
>> parking lot one day so I got out my tape measure and
>> poked around under
>> neath it. I think I could get 24 batteries under
>> the floor if I can get
>> enough ground clearance for an 11" tall battery box.
>> The vans came in a
>> 4wd configuration that has a lot more ground
>> clearance than the 2wd
>> version. The GVWR is about 5000 lbs, while the curb
>> weight of the 2wd
>> version is about 3200lbs. This is starting to look
>> promising. They use
>> a 3Y-EC or 4Y-EC engine and came with either a
>> 3speed automatic or 5
>> speed standard transmission. They are rear wheel
>> drive and have either
>> leaf springs in the rear or 4 link. The front is
>> torsion bars.
>>
>> I'm thinking that if I could find a 4wd, I'd swap
>> out the transmission
>> for a 2wd standard type and take out all the fwd
>> equipment. I'd also
>> get one with leaf springs so that I can add helper
>> springs. I'd be
>> looking for a lift kit to get the loaded ground
>> clearance from the floor
>> pan to be in the 20" range.
>>
>> The 2wd version has about an 15" ground clearance
>> unloaded. I haven't
>> found a 4wd version sitting still that I can measure
>> yet. Does anyone
>> have access to one that they could get me this
>> measurement?
>>
>> Then comes the problem of attaching the battery
>> boxes under the floor of
>> a unibody design. I'd need some serious mechanical
>> consulting to get
>> this right so that the batteries are easy to drop.
>>
>> Paul Wallace
>> '91 chevy s10 full of saft nicads
>>
>>
>
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like it!
Home Power used to have a section about 'Guerilla' connectors - people who
illegally connected to the grid to put energy back into it from PV panels, Wind
energy.
Highly illegal, but hey, who cares?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Joe Smalley" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Discharge load?
> How do I connect 3 phase to my single phase outle to push power back
> into the grid?
>
> Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations!
That should make things a lot simpler.
Start with the easy and cheap part:
check the resistance of the wiring, move it
to see if there is an internal breakage from
moving around.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
<http://www.cvandewater.com/>
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:08 PM
To: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [uselectricar] Found the truck problem
Took the truck out this evening, sure enough after a mile it died again
at the side of the road. Massive shudder, and so forth.
This time I popped the hood, and disconnected the encoder. Truck moves
with no problems at 2mph. Creep creep. Plug in, shudder. Unplug, creep.
Shut down, wait a min, wiggle the encoder wire, truck runs fine. Drove home.
So it's either the encoder or a loose wire on the encoder cable. I'll
take it apart tomorrow, but at least now I am 100% positive it is *NOT*
a driveline problem.
Thank God.
CZ
__._,_.___
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bill,
I ask a doctor one time, when I raise my arm, it hurts. The doctor said,
well don't raise it.
In all electrical systems, we have every live component with dead front
covers. It became too normal for having one bare battery expose, so some
EV'ers install a lot of expose batteries and take the same precautions as it
was only one battery.
There is a Federal inspection label on my door, that states that all
electrical systems meet the all the safety standards.
There shall be no expose live parts. All components shall be cover with a
approved enclosure.
The motor terminals shall have covers on the wire connection.
The motor controller, if has bare bus bars exposed shall be cover. I have
my Zilla install inside a approve electrical enclosure, that is also
fan-blower cool.
The battery charger is also install inside a electrical plastic enclosure
which also has blower fan input and exhaust output which makes it isolated
from the frame of the vehicle.
The batteries are install inside a electrical proof fiberglass enclosure,
that is exhaust fan blowers and completely seal.
The battery pack is electrical disconnected from the main contactor and
controller by two safety contactors while charge.
The battery charger is electrical disconnected from the batteries while not
charging.
The input AC plug is a totally enclose isolated type, that does not self
ground to the vehicle chassic. Only the battery charger chassic is
grounded.
We work as electrical workers only work on live components with approved
safety equipment. When I want to measure the voltage and do a current shunt
test of the battery links while the battery charger is on, I used a
electrical rubber blanket drap over the car body and over the top of the
batteries, except for the one I'm working on.
All tools I used are made by the Kline, which are insulated and approved for
electrical work.
For maximum safety, wear electrical approved lineman boats and stand on a
insulation board that sets on four high voltage pin insulations that we use
in overhead line installation.
In electrical and electronic shops, we install a approved non-conducting
plastic vinyl flooring, which you now can get for placing your EV on.
If you are standing on wet ground, and if the resistance is less than 100
ohms though the earth, it may or may not trip a GFI breaker. Normally home
owners do not test out the grounding resistance to earth. Electrical
workers test the grounding resistance every 90 days in very critical areas
and every year on single point grounding, as a ground rod. These must read
less than 5 ohms through 100 feet of earth.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: Still Shaky on Non-Isolation
> In preparation for running my PFC-30 charger from 240V service, I've
> installed a 240V GFI breaker in my electrical box. First, I want to make
> sure that I've done everything correctly, and second to ask a question.
>
> If I understand correctly:
>
> 1) The X & Y tines of the PFC-30's NEMA 14-30 plug get connected to the
> two
> poles of my 240V service.
> 2) The W tine of the PFC-30's NEMA 14-30 plug is not connected to
> anything
> inside the PFC-30.
> 3) The G tine of the PFC-30's NEMA 14-30 connector is attached to the
> PFC-30 chassis for mechanical ground.
> 4) There is no internal connection between any of the PFC-30's innards and
> the chassis; neither terminal of the traction pack is in any way connected
> to the car chassis.
> 5) On the wall socket, I've attached both the W and G connections to
> neutral in the electrical box--even though the W wire isn't actually
> connected to anything in the PFC-30.
>
> Okay, so if I've got all that right, then the only time the car's chassis
> is
> connected to earth ground is then the PFC-30 is plugged into the AC wall
> socket.
>
> So if, while charging, I touch any battery terminal and the car chassis,
> some of the current will go back through me then the chassis and then to
> the
> GFI breaker, which will detect unbalanced currents on its load/line earth
> ground lines, and trip. Is that correct?
>
> Now what if I touch a battery terminal and stand in a puddle of water
> instead of touching the car chassis. Is there an electrical path back to
> the GFI breaker that will trip it in this instance?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have a use for a 95 Saturn as a parts car?
It may be joining it's cousins in Mesa Proving Grounds.
Shopping for a Ranger glider.
BTW, through the Solectria sale,
I didn't get a car, but I found a buddy
who wants to build a Ranger EV...
gee, the kind of thing a Kostov would power :?)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well - I finally fired up the 81 Jet Electrica I have been restoring. I
have a refurbished GE EVT15 controller, it seems to do well with the
Advance DC motor. I am having a little trouble getting the A/C switch to
work on the dash so I temporarily powered the solenoid to fire up the A/C
compressor. Yikes!!!! you would think I had a cement mixer in the back
seat!
My problem is that I also have a solectria with AC, it is whisper quiet
compared to the JET set up.
Does anyone else have a JET Industries A/C set up that is working? If so,
is it noisy? I am feeding it 132v, it is rated for 96, but man does it
get cold!. I will try a lower voltage and see if it gets quieter but
would like to know if it is futile to try and make it quiet.
Thanks,
The whole 9 yards
Jimmy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>You know you're a list member when...
> > You have a power outage and you hope Rudman's OK.
>
> Thanks Jim, this one especially killed me :-)
>
> damon
Funny...me too! :-)
- Arthur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
12:40 P.M.
Mike,
The CMG series is relatively new and intended for OEMs to build product in
volume. Some potential customers have ordered small quantities for testing
and making ptototype equipment thus far, but I am not aware of any mass
produced, properly engineered applications that would give meaningful
stastistics. My personal applications and most sales of the MG and CMG
series have been for generators (range extenders and 24V backup power) and
have generally worked well. (exception being a shaft problem on an MG unit
from early 2002)
Applications as motors have been quite varied, such as driving hydraulic
pumps, air conditioning compressors, outboard motors(Yamaha 9.9 bottom end
used) etc.
I would offer these cautions for now: The CMG is presently supplied with
the commutator electronics uncovered, to be integrated/protected by the OEM.
eCycle is working on an air-cooled fan cover and a remote mounted liquid
cooled commutator version, and both would be less work at the customer end
for finishing. The commutator can be damaged by excessive voltage,
excessive current or a stopping of cooling under heavy load, and customers
doing experimenting and making prototypes have managed to do these things.
Does its performance seem to match the marketing info? Is it really 95%
efficient (does motor stay cool)?
To my knowledge, yes for torque, and power, resistance, voltage generated
per 1000 RPM, etc. Efficiency depends on conditions and is not fixed at 95%
no matter what. For example, when used as a generator, if you turn it at
only 500 rpm and draw relatively high current, the voltage generated will
not be much higher than the IR losses, so "efficiency" will look terrible.
Operated at 5000 RPM and more moderate loading and the efficiency will be
very good. If it is operating at 95% efficiency at 5KW, that is still 250W
of heat from a relatively small device, so it will not "stay cool". The
liquid cooling option is usually required at high power levels. The
permanent magnet BLDC design with the stator windings around the outside
case, is typically better at transferring heat out than motors with most
heating in the rotor.
One of the few messages I found about the ecycle claimed that the earlier
versions had problems with loose components on the circuit board causing
"shorts". Has this been solved?
I hadn't heard of this case but I know of a CMG unit that had an apparently
defective picofuse on the board that opened and had to be replaced.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 11:54 AM
Subject: Doug: Ecycle Motor Question
Doug,
Thanks for your reply.
My research on the internet has not found much, other than marketing info,
about the ecycle motor.
Can you tell me about users' experiences with the motor either in a
manufactured product (outboard, etc) or in a "homegrown" project?
I'd like to know how long some of your customers have been using the
motor.
Does its performance seem to match the marketing info? Is it really 95%
efficient (does motor stay cool)?
One of the few messages I found about the ecycle claimed that the earlier
versions had problems with loose components on the circuit board causing
"shorts". Has this been solved? Any other problems to be aware of? What is
your return rate?
Thanks.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: Hello. Ecycle Motor Question
Hi Mike,
This is a brushless DC motor, with permanent magnet rotor and the 3-phase
windings on the stator. The circuit board is the electronic commutator,
that does the function of brushes with MOSFET switches. (So it is quite
different construction than the E-tek brush type motors.) Because of the
electronic commutator, the CMG motors can be speed controlled using
conventional DC motor controllers, such as the Alltrax series, or
operated
without a controller, with the built-in ramp-up/soft start, for constant
full speed applications.
The choice of model depends mainly on the RPM required, power/current
level
and battery pack voltage. Contact me direct if interested - I am a
distributor for eCycle.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 12:58 PM
Subject: Hello. Ecycle Motor Question
> I'm new to this list. I have a sailboat with an electric motor. I'm
> looking
> to upgrade the motor.
>
> I am considering an Ecycle motor - CMG 13-24. The pertinent specs are:
>
> Pancake motor similar to Etek
>
> At 24 volts,
>
> 1800 RPM
> 400 AMP Max
> .0855 ft lb / amp
> rated 12 HP
>
> 15 lbs
> high temperature cutoff
> Forward/Reverse on attached circuit board
>
> Does anyone have knowledge or experience with this motor? Is it
> dependable,
> rugged, etc?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike Kaplan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I took the Servi out last night and went about 11 miles. It still read
50.0 volts after sitting 20 minutes. The battery fuel gauge showed just
under half way to its setpoint of 80% DOD. The motor however was very warm.
My experience is that if it is uncomfortable to leave your bare hand on a
motor for more than a couple of seconds then it is about 180 deg. F. That
is where the motor seems to be so I expect I will need to add some
additional air flow on the motor.
So the question becomes, do I blow into the brush end of the motor, the
opposite end (where the fan is) or suck from one end or the other. The fan
on the motor is a standard straight radial blade fan so I expect it is
blowing out and trying to draw the air in at the brush end. Is that
correct? I located a small centrifugal fan at Graingers that can run on the
12 volt system that has 148 CFM at .5" static pressure. Should this be
enough assistance to help cool the motor?
Other info gathered from the ride is top speed right at 38 MPH and the amp
draw about 100. The meter is a little small to read accurately when
running.
I am thinking of changing my ratio from 7.93:1 to 8.54:1 overall. I know
this should lower the heating problem in the motor could it also actually
raise the top end by letting the motor spin faster against the load? Or am
I trying to get something for nothing and really the bike is going to take X
amount of power to move at 38 MPH and the ratio doesn't really have so much
effect on speed as it does on motor load?
respectfully,
John
58 Harley Servi-car conversion still in pprogress
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It means that GM still don't get it,Maybe bringing back the EV1 would save
them,i think
On 8/8/06, David Roden (Akron OH USA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm sorry to say I don't understand what this post has to do with EVs.
David Roden
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = =
Mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
reply offlist, please use my email address from this page :
http://www.evdl.org/help
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rush,
Check the back issues of Homepower for WHY they used the
guerilla tactic and what Homepower endorsed: it was always
stressed that it was guerilla because the red tape was so
massive that it could take years before a perfect system
could even be turned 'on' and sometimes it was made impossible
simply because a bureaucrat did not like it.
Often it was even to conquer the *illegal* refusal to allow
the grid connection, therefore the attitude of "we will
connect it anyway, because we know it is perfectly safe"
and the hoopla from the power company is only to cover up
that they should allow this, but they don't like it....
The 'highly illegal' part is highly debatable.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rush
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Discharge load?
I like it!
Home Power used to have a section about 'Guerilla' connectors - people who
illegally connected to the grid to put energy back into it from PV panels,
Wind energy.
Highly illegal, but hey, who cares?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Joe Smalley" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Discharge load?
> How do I connect 3 phase to my single phase outle to push power back
> into the grid?
>
> Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes.
When the freq changes, it's a sign of disconnect, so it is
a sure indication to stop.
That is why it is in the "anti-islanding" requirements for
grid-connected inverters. When they are suddenly an 'island'
(disconnected from the grid) they may either detect a
voltage out of range condition or a frequency out of range
condition, both are specified with tight tolerances in the
mandatory safety features, that is why power companies are
not too scared about inverters from solar installations.
Now an AC motor feeding back is another story....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Martin K
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
I don't believe that back-feeding the grid will increase the frequency
at any point. It may change the phase a bit but it should certainly not
be able to increase the frequency any amount.
There are many large synchronous motors around any industrial area that
can momentarily backfeed the grid - they don't (can't) change the
frequency, they'd blow fuses...
Inverters in solar and small wind systems can back-feed at any power
level, they don't have a problem.
I'm sure I must be missing something as I haven't been following this
thread closely.
--
Martin K
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Correct - all equipment feeding the grid needs to have a
> separate (I think it needs to be lockable) disconnect switch
> and it needs to have a way to detect phase and/or voltage level
> errors and cease operation within milliseconds from detecting
> such a situation.
> In SW these systems are attempting to speed up or increase the
> grid AC voltage and when they actually succeed in doing that, it
> means that they are no longer connected to the grid, so they
> stop.
> For example, the inverter generates a waveform which is always
> a tiny bit ahead of the sinus it is actually seeing and it can
> increase the frequency up to 61 Hz from its normal 60 and it
> can go down to 59 Hz.
> However, when it finds the frequency outside the 59.5 - 60.5 Hz
> range, it will disconnect automatically and try to re-sync.
> Even when you have such an inverter and a motor connected to
> the grid when it is disconnected, the motor will either slow
> down or speed up and the inverter will stop powering it.
>
> Now try to do that with a DC motor driving an AC motor that
> is connected to the grid...
> I doubt that the few bucks that you will save on your
> electricity bill will be any match for the effort and the
> liability involved.
>
> One full prius pack: 273V 6.5 Ah gives max 1.8 kWh.
> With several conversion losses you'd probably get a max
> 1 kWh into the wall outlet.
> On a normal metering scheme this means you saved a dime.
>
> Grid electricity is still extremely cheap.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Doug Weathers
> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 12:01 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
>
>
>
> I'm starting to get nervous about this talk of feeding power back into
> the grid.
>
> Are there rules governing this behavior? I have heard that solar PV
> systems that are grid-tied can't be used during a power outage, for
> fear of electrocuting some poor lineman who thinks the power is out.
>
> I know it's possible to do this and make your meter run backwards. I
> have always assumed that you need specific safety equipment and the
> agreement of the electric company.
>
> Am I off base here?
>
> --
> Doug Weathers
> Las Cruces, NM, USA
> http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Hacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
> Where do you live? Not in California, I assume?
>
> > Grid electricity is still extremely cheap.
>
Not in Corrupticut, or Massa two shits!, ether. Since deregulation we went
from 9 Sense , a KWH to 16 in one fell swoop!And most of our power ISN'T
from Petro, Hydro, a few nukes and gas fired plants.EVen at 16 an hour I was
glad to let the genny run out of gas last weak, when the lights just
stopped. A 15 minute hold for a real person, instead of " Your Call is
Inportent to Us(Like Hell!) please stay on the line"I guess if you don't
TELL them, they don't know?
My higher KWH's worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> My research on the internet has not found much, other than marketing
info,
> about the ecycle motor.
It would have been nice if they had kept working on their diesel
hybrid motorcycle, or got the mockup of a pure electric cycle on the
road...but just as well they stuck to their motors.
> Can you tell me about users' experiences with the motor either in a
> manufactured product (outboard, etc) or in a "homegrown" project?
What's with the across-the-board 95% rating for their CMG line? I'm
used to seeing output curves for PMG and Etek, but these are PM
motors, so maybe BLDC motors don't have the same data.
--- End Message ---
