EV Digest 5739
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Urgent request for 240V charging in Melbourne or Cocoa Beach, FL for
8/11 Winter Park movie premiere
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now
by Jim Waite <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: S10 Truck, 2V1 postal? van
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: You know you're a list member when...
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: vehicle modifications
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Urgent request for 240V charging in Melbourne or Cocoa Beach, FL for
8/11 Winter Park movie premiere
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Discharge load?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Wacky law of the day: "Minimum markup" law keeps E-85 expensive in
Wisconsin
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) EV1: 12 mile range?
by Patrick Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: S10 Truck, 2V1 postal? van
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV1: 12 mile range?
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Discharge load?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) stereo
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Wacky law of the day: "Minimum markup" law keeps E-85 expensive in
Wisconsin
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) tesla talk, palo alto
by elaine chiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 12 mile range?
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: You know you're a list member when...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) WKtEC premiere in Winter Park, FL
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 12 mile range?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 12 mile range?
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV1: 12 mile range?
by Matthew Younkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) H2U Student Design Contest
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Freedom EV update
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: You know you're a list member when...
by Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Update:
I contacted the theater manager in Winter Park, who gave his full permission
for us to do this. The only missing piece of the puzzle now is a 240V
charging location in either Melbourne or Cocoa Beach. I haven't yet heard
back from Frank Leslie at FIT, Bill Young at FSEC, nor from anyone in
the Melbourne/Cocoa Beach area with an offer of assistance on this. I
realize this is a bad time of year with school out of session and many folks
away on summer vacation. Bad timing, I guess. Unfortunately, unless I hear
from someone by this evening with an offer of a 240V outlet in the
Melbourne/Cocoa Beach area, I will not be able to make this trip up to
Winter Park for the opening of the movie in Central Florida.
Thanks for any help.
Charles Whalen
Florida EAA
Delray Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Florida EAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "EV Discussion List"
<[email protected]>; "RAV4-EV list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Frank Leslie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Bill Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:36 AM
Subject: Urgent request for 240V charging in Melbourne or Cocoa Beach, FL
for 8/11 Winter Park movie premiere
Hugh Webber has tentatively secured permission from the theater manager in
Winter Park for me to park and display my RAV4-EV on a 20-foot deep section
of sidewalk directly in front of the theater entrance for this weekend's
premiere of "Who Killed the Electric Car?".
I need to confirm this permission with the theater manager tomorrow. If
it's a go, then I'm willing to make the long road trip up to Winter Park;
another ~500-mile weekend adventure in long-distance EV driving.
In order to make this trip, I will need to make an intermediate charging
stop in either Melbourne or Cocoa Beach for about 5 hours in both
directions, on the way up to Winter Park on either Thursday or Friday, and
on the return trip back south on Sunday. I have a 50-foot 10/3 electrical
cable with 10-30, 14-50, and 6-50 plug adapters (such that I can plug into
any of those three types of outlets). I could also make up an adapter for
any additional type of plug tomorrow if I know early enough what type of
outlet(s) is/are available. I need to plug into either a 30A, 40A, or 50A
240V outlet. The RAV can't charge from 120V.
Is there anyone in either Melbourne or Cocoa Beach who could assist me in
trying to find a suitable charging location that would allow me to make this
trip in both directions? e.g. Prof. Frank Leslie at FIT in Melbourne? Bill
Young at FSEC in Cocoa Beach? Anyone else?
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
Florida EAA
Delray Beach, FL
tel: 561-638-6881
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With apolgies to The List, this was intended to be a personal reply to Marc.
(so much for remote EVDL access:-(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The USE S10's are longbed and regular cab with a manual trans. But they
were originally automatic trucks that they swaped the transmissions
into. The trucks are fixed into second gear so a clutch was not a
requirement. Rear ends are 4.11.
Mike
--- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> All -
>
> I have tried in vain to locate a chevy s10, regular cab, long bed
> (has
> longer wheel base by about 8 inches), manual tranny truck to convert
> - I'm
> about convinced they do not exist, as the only ones I have seen (reg
> cab,
> long bed) have automatic transmissions. Thinking I will stick to reg
> cab,
> short bed, as they are fairly plentiful.
>
> ** Curious if anyone on the list has seen or owns a reg cab, long
> bed,
> manual transmission S10.
>
> ** Also, a friend of a friend owns a "2V1" (postal?) van...anyone
> heard of
> this animal? Is it, or the guts of it worth anything???
>
> Thx, Mike
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are a handful of us... Myself (a convert in the process of
conversion), Bill Dennis, Tom and his electric car team at BYU, the
Singletons, Wilderness EV and their customers, and a couple more
people at a Utah EAA meeting (I forget their names). What we lack is
having everyone congregate (and having everyone on the EVDL).
Ryan, here's an idea. Announce when your electric is going to be at a
car show or something, maybe that can serve as a seed for some
electrical gathering (I'm planning to do that once my car is done.).
If nothing else I'd like to give your car a close look.
--- Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> I was converted :) Now I just have to work on everyone else here
> in Utah - not many EVers......yet! ...
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With regards to welding, you can take a welding course at a local
Community College, and they'll teach you the basics in oxy/fuel, MIG,
TIG, and Stick. Personally, I settled on a oxy/acetylene welding
setup. I bought the tanks from Ebay, and a welding cart and torch from
Harbor Freight. Total out-of-pocket cost for equipment, training was
about $600 - $700. I have 75CF Acetylene and 125CF of oxygen, and it
costs me about $35 to fill these up. Lasts quite some time. Torch kits
typically include a cutting head with which you can cut steel up to 1"
thick.
Might want to compare this with how much $$$ you'll be throwing at a
welding guy.
MIG welding is "relatively easy" to learn compared to the other types,
and a small MIG welder can be had pretty cheap, especially used.
You might also want to consider brazing instead and skip welding
altogether. Brazing rods and torches are available cheap at nearly any
hardware/home improvement. Brazing usually has comparable tensile
strength to the steel you'd be welding, while the shear strength and
other factors are a bit lower. Vehicular frames have been brazed
together before. Keep your design well triangulated and you shouldn't
have a problem.
Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE wrote:
Having spent many months lurking about, listening on lots of things I never
thought about, and learning things, I have a few questions that I haven't
seen brought up regarding the building of the EV.
First, I have seen some custom built battery boxes in the car somewhere,
usually welded in. If I want to do a similar thing, I will be modifying my
car, meaning cutting stuff out and welding things in. I don't know much
about welding, and don't know much about how car frames work, and what will
happen if I make a significant change to the body. The car is a '74 VW
super beetle, and I am thinking of removing the front tire, and building a
square box there, and putting the spare somewhere else. (Or removing it, as
I won't be traveling real long distances.) The question is, can I go to a
local welding company, which is within a half mile of my home to have this
done? Or should it be done by an auto body shop, that knows about the frame
of a car, and how changing it will affect it?
A second question being similar, it has been mentioned here that you should
make sure that the weight added isn't over some special number (something
like GVWR). How is this number decided? Does it have to due with
suspension, the frame, all, none, etc? Is there a way to increase this
special number, so you can carry more weight?
I appreciate any thoughts, opinions, concerns, etc that anyone will have.
Thanks,
Brian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Charles,
Just contact shops, like a muffler shop or a welding shop to see if they
will let you charge a proto electric vehicle for a showing.
Find out if the receptacle they have is either a 3 pole standard receptacle
(without a neutral) or it may be a 4 wire receptacle (with a ground an
neutral) in either 30 or 50 amp rating.
Sometime service stations will have this type of receptacles.
So far for me, I was be able to accomplish using a receptacle 100 percent of
the time, because they want to see the EV.
I carry a bunch of adapters that I can use from 120 VAC 3 wire to 250 VAC 4
wire.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Florida EAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "EV Discussion List"
<[email protected]>; "RAV4-EV list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Frank Leslie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Bill Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"Hugh Webber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Jude Anthony"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Shawn M. Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Matt
Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Urgent request for 240V charging in Melbourne or Cocoa Beach,
FL for 8/11 Winter Park movie premiere
> Update:
>
> I contacted the theater manager in Winter Park, who gave his full
> permission
> for us to do this. The only missing piece of the puzzle now is a 240V
> charging location in either Melbourne or Cocoa Beach. I haven't yet heard
> back from Frank Leslie at FIT, Bill Young at FSEC, nor from anyone in
> the Melbourne/Cocoa Beach area with an offer of assistance on this. I
> realize this is a bad time of year with school out of session and many
> folks
> away on summer vacation. Bad timing, I guess. Unfortunately, unless I
> hear
> from someone by this evening with an offer of a 240V outlet in the
> Melbourne/Cocoa Beach area, I will not be able to make this trip up to
> Winter Park for the opening of the movie in Central Florida.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Charles Whalen
> Florida EAA
> Delray Beach, FL
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Florida EAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "EV Discussion List"
> <[email protected]>; "RAV4-EV list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "Frank Leslie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Bill Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:36 AM
> Subject: Urgent request for 240V charging in Melbourne or Cocoa Beach, FL
> for 8/11 Winter Park movie premiere
>
> Hugh Webber has tentatively secured permission from the theater manager in
> Winter Park for me to park and display my RAV4-EV on a 20-foot deep
> section
> of sidewalk directly in front of the theater entrance for this weekend's
> premiere of "Who Killed the Electric Car?".
>
> I need to confirm this permission with the theater manager tomorrow. If
> it's a go, then I'm willing to make the long road trip up to Winter Park;
> another ~500-mile weekend adventure in long-distance EV driving.
>
> In order to make this trip, I will need to make an intermediate charging
> stop in either Melbourne or Cocoa Beach for about 5 hours in both
> directions, on the way up to Winter Park on either Thursday or Friday, and
> on the return trip back south on Sunday. I have a 50-foot 10/3 electrical
> cable with 10-30, 14-50, and 6-50 plug adapters (such that I can plug into
> any of those three types of outlets). I could also make up an adapter for
> any additional type of plug tomorrow if I know early enough what type of
> outlet(s) is/are available. I need to plug into either a 30A, 40A, or 50A
> 240V outlet. The RAV can't charge from 120V.
>
> Is there anyone in either Melbourne or Cocoa Beach who could assist me in
> trying to find a suitable charging location that would allow me to make
> this
> trip in both directions? e.g. Prof. Frank Leslie at FIT in Melbourne?
> Bill
> Young at FSEC in Cocoa Beach? Anyone else?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charles Whalen
> Florida EAA
> Delray Beach, FL
> tel: 561-638-6881
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
how to control how much current you're delivering...
You can't speed up or slow down the motor much or it'll be completely
out of sync with the power line... what happens if the power lines go
down and you're powering the neighborhood...
You may want to study up on induction motors a little more. They are
fascinating devices! These aren't problems with induction generators. An
induction generator:
1. Produces zero voltage into an open circuit.
(Won't start by itself).
2. Produces zero current into a short circuit.
(Isn't harmed by overloads; it just stops generating).
3. Can only generate a voltage and frequency directly proportional
to rpm. (Wrong speed means no generation).
4. Can only generate a leading current.
(Requires a capacitive load).
When you connect the induction motor to the AC line, it will *draw*
current, and run as a motor. It keeps drawing current any time it is
spinning at synchronous speed or less (3600 rpm or less for a 3450 rpm
rated motor, etc.)
To make it generate, you have to spin it *faster* than synchronous speed
(about 3750 rpm for a 3450 rpm rated motor). Its voltage will rise
slightly due to the increased speed, and current flows back into the AC
line.
If you try to overload it, the motor slows down. Even a tiny speed
decrease *reduces* the generated voltage and current. With any normal
load, this automatically reduces the load so the induction generator
won't burn up. If you try to load it too much, it abruptly stops
generating as it hits synchronous speed.
If you try to spin it too fast, this *reduces* the current it generates.
Again, it abruptly stops generating if you go much more than 10% or so
above synchronous speed.
So, it makes a pretty save generator. It won't "island" (i.e. keep
generating if the grid goes down), and automatically shuts down if
overloaded.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-cheap09.html :
MONROE, Wis. -- An ethanol-pump owner says he wants to lower his
prices but the state won't let him.
Badger Ethanol in Monroe charges around $2.22 for a gallon of E-85, an
alcohol-fuel mixture that is 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent
gasoline, by volume.
Badger's owners wanted to cut the price to $2 but said they had to
artificially hike prices after some competitors complained Badger
wasn't meeting the state's minimum markup laws.
The markup law is "antiquated" and the governor and Legislature should
eliminate it, said Gary Kramer, head of Badger State Ethanol.
Wisconsin Consumer Protection investigators launched a probe into
Badger's fuel prices and found E-85 selling for just over $2 a gallon.
Based on a complicated formula, the investigators said the price
should have been $1 more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings all -
I am engaged in conversation with an individual who claims that the EV1s
range was reduced to only 12 miles in cold weather with heater and
lights on.
This isn't true, is it? If not, can anyone point me at any resources to
definitively refute this claim?
Of course, this individual also considers WKtEC to be a wild conspiracy
theory movie and that GM tried everything in their power to create a
successful EV and simply failed, producing only a below-average car held
in low regard.
While it may not be possible to convince him, others listening in might
be more educable if I can produce good sources with i's dotted and t's
crossed.
Thanks in advance,
- Patrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike:
I do own a regular cab long bed S-10 with manual transmission. See at
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/693.html
So - they do exist :)
Michaela
> All -
>
> I have tried in vain to locate a chevy s10, regular cab, long bed (has
> longer wheel base by about 8 inches), manual tranny truck to convert - I'm
> about convinced they do not exist, as the only ones I have seen (reg cab,
> long bed) have automatic transmissions. Thinking I will stick to reg cab,
> short bed, as they are fairly plentiful.
>
> ** Curious if anyone on the list has seen or owns a reg cab, long bed,
> manual transmission S10.
>
> ** Also, a friend of a friend owns a "2V1" (postal?) van...anyone heard of
> this animal? Is it, or the guts of it worth anything???
>
> Thx, Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Aug 09, 2006 at 10:47:41AM -0700, Patrick Clarke wrote:
> Greetings all -
>
> I am engaged in conversation with an individual who claims that the EV1s
> range was reduced to only 12 miles in cold weather with heater and
> lights on.
1997 EV1 PbA Urban Range Test, Max Payload, A/C on High, Headlights on Low,
Radio On is 72.6 miles.
1997 EV1 PbA Freeway Range Test, Max Payload, A/C on High, Headlights on Low,
Radio On is 91.8 miles.
Seems like it would be hard to get the EV1 range all the way down to 12 miles.
You can read the report here:
http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/sce_sum/2000panpbaev1sum.pdf
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes but modern grid "counters" can't go backward.
For this reason in France we need a second special one installed by grid
company to see amps flowing backward...
no solar gerilla possible here :^(
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rush" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: Discharge load?
> Moving electrons across conductors doesn't leave much of a paper
> trail. They would have a hard time proving you ever were connected to
> their grid. So a lawsuit is unlikely.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Cor,
> >
> > My elec co here in Tucson is Trico (www.trico.coop ), and while they
> may never say it is 'illegal' to connect to their system without their
> 'permission', it sure is implied many many times. Here is just one
> instance from their "Sun Watts" Program.
> (http://trico.coop/documents/sunwatts_handbook.pdf)
> >
> > "All ON-GRID customer solar electric generating systems must meet
> the following system and installation requirements (e.g., systems to
> be connected to Trico's electric distribution system)."
> >
> > So in my opinion, it is highly illegal, but I also have to say, I
> know of no one that has been prosecuted for 'connecting' without
> 'permissison'.
> >
> > In any case, I don't think it makes any sense to debate the 'merits'
> of various elec co practices here... especially when they buy back at
> the avoided cost and not at what we, the public, pay per KWH.
> >
> > Rush
> > Tucson AZ
> > www.ironandwood.org
> >
> > PS chek out my article in Homepower,
> http://www.ironandwood.org/graphics/RV_PV.pdf
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:18 PM
> > Subject: RE: Discharge load?
> >
> >
> > > Hi Rush,
> > >
> > > Check the back issues of Homepower for WHY they used the
> > > guerilla tactic and what Homepower endorsed: it was always
> > > stressed that it was guerilla because the red tape was so
> > > massive that it could take years before a perfect system
> > > could even be turned 'on' and sometimes it was made impossible
> > > simply because a bureaucrat did not like it.
> > > Often it was even to conquer the *illegal* refusal to allow
> > > the grid connection, therefore the attitude of "we will
> > > connect it anyway, because we know it is perfectly safe"
> > > and the hoopla from the power company is only to cover up
> > > that they should allow this, but they don't like it....
> > >
> > > The 'highly illegal' part is highly debatable.
> > >
> > > Cor van de Water
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am unable to continue with the controller side of my car for
several months. I can't come up with 2 grand but I can come up with
200. Lets talk stereos. With several hundred volts available and a
very quiet car, a good boom box is suggested.
When done I will have a 120 or 144 volt DC car. I have a Curtis
DC-DC converter, so battery drain should not be a problem. I doubt
even a high powered system would pull enough power to affect range.
Will there be any problems with line noise while driving? If so how
to correct for it. Any options/thoughts before I go out and buy a CD
player?
R. Matt Milliron
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
1981 Jet Electrica.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jorg,
Look up the law to see if this minimum price is for gasoline. If gasoline
is $3.00 a gallon, then $3.00 x 15 percent is $0.45 cents of gasoline, so he
is legal!!!
I can buy 55 gallons of ethanol from a farmer friend of my for $1.00 a
gallon. Add $0.45 for gas to that which becomes my cost at $1.45. Selling
it for $2.00 would be 27.5 percent mark up.
Check the law to see what the minimum mark up is. In Montana we had at one
time a 10 percent minimum mark up over the wholesale cost. A lot of the
stations don't make this markup now, because the state drop the minimum
charge.
Roland
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:31 PM
Subject: Wacky law of the day: "Minimum markup" law keeps E-85 expensive in
Wisconsin
> >From http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-cheap09.html :
>
> MONROE, Wis. -- An ethanol-pump owner says he wants to lower his
> prices but the state won't let him.
>
> Badger Ethanol in Monroe charges around $2.22 for a gallon of E-85, an
> alcohol-fuel mixture that is 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent
> gasoline, by volume.
>
> Badger's owners wanted to cut the price to $2 but said they had to
> artificially hike prices after some competitors complained Badger
> wasn't meeting the state's minimum markup laws.
>
> The markup law is "antiquated" and the governor and Legislature should
> eliminate it, said Gary Kramer, head of Badger State Ethanol.
>
> Wisconsin Consumer Protection investigators launched a probe into
> Badger's fuel prices and found E-85 selling for just over $2 a gallon.
>
> Based on a complicated formula, the investigators said the price
> should have been $1 more.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi guys.
I posted some video from JB Straubel's talk at the silicon valley EV
meeting.
the video's about 30 min total, but most of it is the talk by JB
about the car and Tesla motors at the beginning.
we got to see and touch the actual car. very, very cool.
hope lithium comes down for us home EVer's. I just got a 26K quote
for 13 x 12v from valence, so I told them I would have to wait a few
years.
if you're on low speed internet, it's probably too slow. on hi-speed
cable, it loaded for me in less than a minute.
http://web.mac.com/erdoc/iWeb/Site/tesla%208_06.html
login: citicar
password: citicar
elaine C.
berkeley, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I doubt that anyone knows how the EV-1 would have performed in
cold weather. They were probably never operated anywhere much
cooler than San Francisco. Who knows how they would perform
in the sort of cold that occurs in winter in places like Fairbanks or
Prudhoe Bay? Maybe they wouldn't move at all at -50 degrees.
You shouldn't feel obliged to refute his claim. He should be obliged
to explain where, when and how EV-1s were tested and got 12 miles
range.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Clarke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:47 AM
Subject: EV1: 12 mile range?
Greetings all -
I am engaged in conversation with an individual who claims that the EV1s
range was reduced to only 12 miles in cold weather with heater and
lights on.
This isn't true, is it? If not, can anyone point me at any resources to
definitively refute this claim?
Of course, this individual also considers WKtEC to be a wild conspiracy
theory movie and that GM tried everything in their power to create a
successful EV and simply failed, producing only a below-average car held
in low regard.
While it may not be possible to convince him, others listening in might
be more educable if I can produce good sources with i's dotted and t's
crossed.
Thanks in advance,
- Patrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1. You are incapable of not buying all the broken scooters at the swap meet
2. Your garden wagon is recharged by a PFC20
3. Your golf cart needs wheelie bars
4. Your kids power wheels run faster than you can
5. The local battery shop sends christmas cards
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: You know you're a list member when...
Hey all
I had some time on my hands as I drove back from Portland after lunch with
Wayland and the usual motor run. I added some to those I had thought up
earlier. These are in no particular order and I hope you enjoy, sorry if I
missed anyone.
Cya
Jim Husted
You know you're a list member when...
You think of the Geico lizard as a baby Zilla.
You want to know what wh/hr the Everready bunny gets.
You have a power outage and you hope Rudman's OK.
You think of Bob Rice when you get stopped by a train.
You wonder where the hell Wayland was "after" you blew something up.
You realize that info by those who know how to spell, or do spell check, is
worthless.
You ponder whether anyone reads your posts after no responce to a well
thought out and typed posting, see above!
You drive by a Hooters and wonder if Wayland's giving rides.
You know AC / DC is a war and not a band, hehe.
You Know Gone Postal is a racer and not another mailman fit.
You know that Lawless Ind. makes parade floats and dragsters and not bad guys.
The Mormans avoid your house as you'll talk for 3 hours about EV's.
You find yourself at the Mormans house convinced you can convert them, LMAO!
You find that after a vacation you have 1400 emails to go through.
You find 1400 more by the time you went through the first batch.
You think of wierd ideas like making your bumper an electro-magnet and being
able
to hook onto that semi-truck, and would that be considered a hibred.
Your moto is: I used to have a life, now I have a list, hehehe.
You wonder if anyone from Florida will EVer build a fast EV.
You vote for them at Drag Times even though they don't, LMAO!
You consider yourself an EV'er even if you just have the donor body!
You learn G'day is Australian for Hey.
Death to all spammers is not just your feelings but another listee.
Everytime you see a Prius you picture Rich in the back with a set of jumper
cable.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Thanks for all the suggestions and assistance! I received an offer from a
gentleman in Cocoa to charge the RAV from the dryer outlet at his house, so
that is now the plan which will make the road trip possible. Many thanks,
Joe, for your kind offer!
It looks like we're going to have a least a couple of EVs at the theater in
Winter Park, especially on Saturday evening. The more the merrier! Bring
'em on! (... as our fearless leader says). :-)
Many thanks to Hugh Webber for all of the great organizing he has done and
is doing!
Look forward to seeing you all there Friday and Saturday evenings!
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
Florida EAA
Delray Beach, FL
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Florida EAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "EV Discussion List"
<[email protected]>; "RAV4-EV list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Frank Leslie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Bill Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"Hugh Webber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Jude Anthony"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Shawn M. Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Matt
Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Urgent request for 240V charging in Melbourne or Cocoa Beach,
FL for 8/11 Winter Park movie premiere
Update:
I contacted the theater manager in Winter Park, who gave his full permission
for us to do this. The only missing piece of the puzzle now is a 240V
charging location in either Melbourne or Cocoa Beach. I haven't yet heard
back from Frank Leslie at FIT, Bill Young at FSEC, nor from anyone in
the Melbourne/Cocoa Beach area with an offer of assistance on this. I
realize this is a bad time of year with school out of session and many folks
away on summer vacation. Bad timing, I guess. Unfortunately, unless I hear
from someone by this evening with an offer of a 240V outlet in the
Melbourne/Cocoa Beach area, I will not be able to make this trip up to
Winter Park for the opening of the movie in Central Florida.
Thanks for any help.
Charles Whalen
Florida EAA
Delray Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Florida EAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "EV Discussion List"
<[email protected]>; "RAV4-EV list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Frank Leslie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Bill Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:36 AM
Subject: Urgent request for 240V charging in Melbourne or Cocoa Beach, FL
for 8/11 Winter Park movie premiere
Hugh Webber has tentatively secured permission from the theater manager in
Winter Park for me to park and display my RAV4-EV on a 20-foot deep section
of sidewalk directly in front of the theater entrance for this weekend's
premiere of "Who Killed the Electric Car?".
I need to confirm this permission with the theater manager tomorrow. If
it's a go, then I'm willing to make the long road trip up to Winter Park;
another ~500-mile weekend adventure in long-distance EV driving.
In order to make this trip, I will need to make an intermediate charging
stop in either Melbourne or Cocoa Beach for about 5 hours in both
directions, on the way up to Winter Park on either Thursday or Friday, and
on the return trip back south on Sunday. I have a 50-foot 10/3 electrical
cable with 10-30, 14-50, and 6-50 plug adapters (such that I can plug into
any of those three types of outlets). I could also make up an adapter for
any additional type of plug tomorrow if I know early enough what type of
outlet(s) is/are available. I need to plug into either a 30A, 40A, or 50A
240V outlet. The RAV can't charge from 120V.
Is there anyone in either Melbourne or Cocoa Beach who could assist me in
trying to find a suitable charging location that would allow me to make this
trip in both directions? e.g. Prof. Frank Leslie at FIT in Melbourne? Bill
Young at FSEC in Cocoa Beach? Anyone else?
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
Florida EAA
Delray Beach, FL
tel: 561-638-6881
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Patrick,
I just got done doing a test with all my accessories going at the same time.
The maximum I can draw at 12 vdc is about 96 amps from a DC-DC-DC-AC
alternator-inverter that is driven off the pilot shaft of the motor from a
180 volt battery pack.
This is only (12 x 96)/180 = 6.4 amps off the battery pack. This is what
the E-meter shows if I just idle the motor at 600 rpm in neutral.
The HP would be (6.4 x 180)/746 = is about 1.54 HP to drive all the
accessories at the same time running at constant speed.
If I accelerated the motor very fast while the EV is in neutral, than yes, I
can get a peak 180 volt ampere at about 30 ampere.
This is about the same ampere it takes to run the EV at 25 mph. If a person
is stop and going many times it could reduce the range by 1/2.
Therefore if the range of a EV is 100 miles with not accessories on,
depleting the batteries to 10% or about 50 miles to 50%, than the
accessories could reduce this range to 25 miles, if the person drives the EV
like some people do a ICE. Accelerating from one stop light too fast and
have to stop for the next, because they did not time there speed to the stop
lights.
If I drive my ICE this way it would get only 5 mpg instead of 22 mpg if I go
steady all the way.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Clarke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:47 AM
Subject: EV1: 12 mile range?
> Greetings all -
>
> I am engaged in conversation with an individual who claims that the EV1s
> range was reduced to only 12 miles in cold weather with heater and
> lights on.
>
> This isn't true, is it? If not, can anyone point me at any resources to
> definitively refute this claim?
>
> Of course, this individual also considers WKtEC to be a wild conspiracy
> theory movie and that GM tried everything in their power to create a
> successful EV and simply failed, producing only a below-average car held
> in low regard.
>
> While it may not be possible to convince him, others listening in might
> be more educable if I can produce good sources with i's dotted and t's
> crossed.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> - Patrick
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are EV1s that certainly operated in Michigan in the winter.
I'll look for a post a GM employee put up about his experience with
the car.
And there are cars in Rochester right now. Or at least they were
until recently.
On Aug 9, 2006, at 1:16 PM, Tom Shay wrote:
I doubt that anyone knows how the EV-1 would have performed in
cold weather. They were probably never operated anywhere much
cooler than San Francisco. Who knows how they would perform in the
sort of cold that occurs in winter in places like Fairbanks or
Prudhoe Bay? Maybe they wouldn't move at all at -50 degrees.
You shouldn't feel obliged to refute his claim. He should be obliged
to explain where, when and how EV-1s were tested and got 12 miles
range. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Clarke" <EVlist.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:47 AM
Subject: EV1: 12 mile range?
Greetings all -
I am engaged in conversation with an individual who claims that
the EV1s range was reduced to only 12 miles in cold weather with
heater and lights on.
This isn't true, is it? If not, can anyone point me at any
resources to definitively refute this claim?
Of course, this individual also considers WKtEC to be a wild
conspiracy theory movie and that GM tried everything in their
power to create a successful EV and simply failed, producing only
a below-average car held in low regard.
While it may not be possible to convince him, others listening in
might be more educable if I can produce good sources with i's
dotted and t's crossed.
Thanks in advance,
- Patrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This wouldn't happen to be Patrick Bedard, would it?
--- Patrick Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Greetings all -
>
> I am engaged in conversation with an individual who
> claims that the EV1s
> range was reduced to only 12 miles in cold weather
> with heater and
> lights on.
>
> This isn't true, is it? If not, can anyone point me
> at any resources to
> definitively refute this claim?
>
> Of course, this individual also considers WKtEC to
> be a wild conspiracy
> theory movie and that GM tried everything in their
> power to create a
> successful EV and simply failed, producing only a
> below-average car held
> in low regard.
>
> While it may not be possible to convince him, others
> listening in might
> be more educable if I can produce good sources with
> i's dotted and t's
> crossed.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> - Patrick
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Things are looking up with the chassis layup
finally underway.
It was a bear as I couldn't get the help,
weather together so redesigned the layup so I could do it
alone and nearly didn't have what it takes to finish but I
did luckily. It was a debate which would stop me first, my
back or heatstroke!!
I'll either get free or build a shed that can
be AC'ed and out of the bugs, rain in the next week so I can
work longer in the cool!!
And sales are starting too with several in the
process, just got to get that first one finished!! But with
the money coming in now, that won't be hard.
Those who are serious about getting a glider
or finished one should let me know as slots are being filled
with 3 spoken for already, delivery in Nov.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
10011 Echo Mtn Dr
Riverview, Fla, 33569
813-671-3059
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am trying to have mine finished by the next Cache Valley Cruise-In during
the 4th of July celebration. Ryan has talked about that as well to me, in
the past. Maybe we could have a section of ev's. I was thinking of sending
out an invitation to all next year. Anyway, it is something to start think
about for next year.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: You know you're a list member when...
There are a handful of us... Myself (a convert in the process of
conversion), Bill Dennis, Tom and his electric car team at BYU, the
Singletons, Wilderness EV and their customers, and a couple more
people at a Utah EAA meeting (I forget their names). What we lack is
having everyone congregate (and having everyone on the EVDL).
Ryan, here's an idea. Announce when your electric is going to be at a
car show or something, maybe that can serve as a seed for some
electrical gathering (I'm planning to do that once my car is done.).
If nothing else I'd like to give your car a close look.
--- Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> I was converted :) Now I just have to work on everyone else here
> in Utah - not many EVers......yet! ...
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