--- Begin Message ---
So what happens when several houses in a neighbourhood have grid-tied power
generation?
(Solar, wind, DC motor to AC generator, etc)
I'm thinking of the situation where there is a blackout, but the houses in the
neighbourhood are still connected to each other.
Do they see each other as "the grid" and continue to (attempt to) feed power?
Also, how do typical grid-tie systems behave during blackouts?
Do they continue to provide power to your house, but drop the grid tie, or do
they simply drop all power output?
Mark
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Cor van de Water
Sent: Wed 8/9/2006 3:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
Yes.
When the freq changes, it's a sign of disconnect, so it is
a sure indication to stop.
That is why it is in the "anti-islanding" requirements for
grid-connected inverters. When they are suddenly an 'island'
(disconnected from the grid) they may either detect a
voltage out of range condition or a frequency out of range
condition, both are specified with tight tolerances in the
mandatory safety features, that is why power companies are
not too scared about inverters from solar installations.
Now an AC motor feeding back is another story....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
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Thread-Topic: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
Thread-Index: Aca7c+hKiMYyUSyjQsqpFI1PVu1eNQBZA/jL
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Mark Fowler--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:36:09 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mark,
Normally grid-tie systems go down because they are
"pushing" the grid, comparable to you bare-handedly pushing
a RR locomotive.
When it "moves" (and gets out of the specified range)
the connectionn with the "loc" is gone and you should stop
pushing.
Multiple houses together will usually have the same effect,
either their loads are too light and the voltage rises too
high, or the load is too heavy and the voltage drops or,
in seldom cases, the load is equal to the power supplied
and the safety mechanism is the built-in tendency of the
inverter to speed up the frequency, causing it to drop out
of the allowed range and shut down the inverters.
There are variants of grid-tie systems that have a backup
capability, they resemble the ususal off-grid system in that
they have a bank of batteries, but they have gotten smarter
by adding a grid-tie and "sell-back" option, plus they have
different mechanisms of recharging the batteries from the
incoming Renewable source or from the grid, to make sure they
have enough backup capacity and perform battery maintenance
(equalization).
Heart of the system is still the battery bank, charger and
inverter, but the automated transfer switch and the capability
of the inverter to sync to the grid were added.
I think Xantrex (formerly Trace Engineering) was the first with
these hybrid systems in their SW series, but I am sure they
are available from other sources now too.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark Fowler
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 5:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
So what happens when several houses in a neighbourhood have grid-tied power
generation?
(Solar, wind, DC motor to AC generator, etc)
I'm thinking of the situation where there is a blackout, but the houses in
the neighbourhood are still connected to each other.
Do they see each other as "the grid" and continue to (attempt to) feed
power?
Also, how do typical grid-tie systems behave during blackouts?
Do they continue to provide power to your house, but drop the grid tie, or
do they simply drop all power output?
Mark
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Cor van de Water
Sent: Wed 8/9/2006 3:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
Yes.
When the freq changes, it's a sign of disconnect, so it is
a sure indication to stop.
That is why it is in the "anti-islanding" requirements for
grid-connected inverters. When they are suddenly an 'island'
(disconnected from the grid) they may either detect a
voltage out of range condition or a frequency out of range
condition, both are specified with tight tolerances in the
mandatory safety features, that is why power companies are
not too scared about inverters from solar installations.
Now an AC motor feeding back is another story....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Corvette with 1.3L Hybrid
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:38:14 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Martin,
>> Then I could claim 50mph or better..
Did you mean 50 mpG?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Corvette with 1.3L Hybrid
Martin K wrote:
> I like the idea, but I know many people on the list wouldn't agree :)
Consider this, would you pay $20K for a '95 Aspire that gets 50mph and
run 13's in the quarter mile, or a '91 Vette that does the same?
The cost to build is about the same.
Jack
>
>> I have this Aspire was going to play with, but I think I've decided to
>> build something real instead,
>> and the latest idea is to convert a '91 Corvette into an electric
>> hybrid. Take the 1.3L motor from the aspire and put it into the
>> corvette, along with a couple 8" motors and a lot of batteries. Make
>> it scream on the electric, but run on the highway with the itty 1.3L.
>> Then I could claim 50mph or better and yet be super fast in the 1/4
>> mile and high top-speed.
>> Am I insane? Would you buy it for $20K?
>> Jack
>>
>
>
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Subject: RE: Stats on Sagging (was RE: 93 Toyota p/u Acceleration)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:46:33 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Steve Lacy wrote:
> Is there a good "rule of thumb" about voltage sagging?
Not really. How much a battery sags depends on its internal resistance
(which also depends on its SOC, temperature, and health, etc.), and so
varies from battery type to type and from one size battery to another.
Have a look at the battery tests on the Mazanita Micro site for some
idea of the sort of sag you might expect at these sorts of draws:
<http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm>
For instance, the Optima tests show this well-respected 12V AGM sagging
to below 8V @ 1000A. Floodeds tend to sag worse than AGMs, but even if
they maintained this level of performance, they would still be down to
4V per 6V block.
> Is there a standard measure of "Can draw X amps for Y
> seconds with Z% voltage sag" where Y and Z may be
> "industry standard constants". I assume "CCA" and "CA"
> are instantaneous peak amps, but there's never any
> mention of how much sag, or how long the CA numbers can
> be sustained for.
The CCA and CA ratings are almost exactly what you've asked for. They
are industry standard (BCI) tests that indicate how much current the
battery can supply for X seconds without falling below Z volts. The
difference between CCA and CA is the temperature the test is performed
at; notice that the CA rating is higher than the CCA rating because it
is performed with the battery warmer.
Cor van de Water wrote:
> There is enough documentation:
> - the spec of the battery should show internal resistance,
> so the sag is simply a matter of multiplying
This is sufficient for a single battery, but not necessarily for an
entire string. For a long string, the interconnect resistance can have
a relatively significant impact on the total pack voltage available at
the input of the controller vs what you might expect based on the sum of
the drops of the individual batteries.
> - the CCA is specified as the current for 30 seconds where
> the voltage stays over 8V (on a 12V battery) at 0F temp.
I thought it was 9V, but I'll trust your memory instead ;^>
An important point is that it is an industry standard test, whose
methodology is specified by BCI.
> However, if yo umonitor batteries and their behavior, you will
> see that there always is a secondary effect to the internal
> resistance: the voltage continues to change for several seconds
> after you applied a current change. It seems there is a
> stratification-effect, maybe this is the Peukert-effect, that
> makes the battery voltage difference always a little bit larger
> than the initial effect which follows the internal resistance
> pretty good.
You appear to be describing exactly the opposite effect to what I
regularly observe in my battery testing. In my experience, the voltage
sag is greatest immediately upon application of the load, and then
fairly quickly *recovers* slightly before following the expected gradual
decrease towards 1.75V/cell.
Cheers,
Roger.
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From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Science Channel Shows NEDRA Power of DC Race
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:57:08 -0400
To: [email protected]
Mike,
You're actually doing better then me. I need to get the plug-in for
the video to work. Oh well.
I just heard from the Discovery Channel today that Episode 319 of
"Discoveries This Week" which featured the Power of DC race had run
all last week. Apparently 5 times. George saw the last showing. They
are running Episode 321 now so that's it for the foreseeable future.
Bummer.
Oh well . . . again.
I am glad to see they are getting some mileage out of it.
Chip
On Aug 10, 2006, at 7:55 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: August 10, 2006 6:38:04 PM EDT
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Science Channel Shows NEDRA Power of DC Race
>
>
> Hey Chris and all,
>
> I am only getting audio on this link, are other's getting full video?
>
> -Mike
>
> On 8/10/06, Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.exn.ca/dailyplanet/view.asp?date=9/19/2005
>>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Joe Plumer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Two questions....
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:13:53 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
First question: What is a good EV DC motor that produces at least 50 hp and
75 ft lb torque?
Second: I've been thinking about getting the Optima Yellow Top batteries.
Are these
thought of as good batteries? Is there a better battery available with
similar specs (12v, C/10 55ah)?
Thanks for the thoughts.
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:21:14 -0700
To: [email protected]
From: Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Are Lithium-Ion Electric Cars Safe?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>Perhaps I wanted to insert this message to normal list-flow to keep
>some hope to our cause too. FEVT is still up and kicking hard. At
>the moment working mostly in healthcare energy solutions but as long
>it gets Zillas to my test beds we're moving.
>
>www.fevt.com/videos/IVO_burnout.MPG
>
>-Jukka
Hey Jukka,
I never realized that people would use Zillas to make EV's go fast...
Who would want to do that? :-)
Looks like you are having fun.
I love the graphics on the car, very nice!
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 18:23:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: EV Music
To: EVDLposts <[email protected]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
What with Bob mentioning "Check your batteries out" it reminded me of these
others...
Don't forget about "Gas Hog Lincoln"
http://www.davesevs.com/lincoln.htm
"EV Monster Mash"
http://www.davesevs.com/evmash.htm
Christmas EV (to the tune of the 12 days of Christmas)
http://www.davesevs.com/days.htm
and "The man who never recharged"
http://www.davesevs.com/charge.htm
All by our own Lee Hart.
David Brandt
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:12:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Two questions....
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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--- Joe Plumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> First question: What is a good EV DC motor that
> produces at least 50 hp and
> 75 ft lb torque?
An 8" ADC will give you 19 hp continuous, and 65 hp
peak.
>
> Second: I've been thinking about getting the Optima
> Yellow Top batteries.
> Are these
> thought of as good batteries?
Yes, especially for drag racing. But they require
careful regulation during charging, so purchase a
battery regulator for each of them. Due to added cost
of the battery right off the bat, plus the added cost
of the regulator, lots of us use flooded instead. So
it depends on your application.
Is there a better
> battery available with
> similar specs (12v, C/10 55ah)?
>
> Thanks for the thoughts.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger!
> Download today - it's FREE!
>
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>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:52:46 EDT
Subject: Netgain KUDOS
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Guys & Girls,
I had a nice surprise from Netgain. I recently Zorched a brush spring in
my WARP 8" motor and made a plea for a couple springs on the net. Rod (EV
supply) was kind enough to sell me a couple and I had them the next day, what
service!!! Then George Hamstra of Netgain Technologies sent be a full set of
springs no charge. Man that's what I call a dedicated supplier of EV parts.
Thanks George.
A happy customer
Pat Sweeney
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Ryan Plut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: My ICE Costs
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:54:09 -0700
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Roland,
I HAD a nice table done in excel that I pasted into mail and it got all
screwed up. Next time I'll try running it thru MSWord first.
I get that your EV costs are 2/3 of the ICE costs, but jeez, $100,000 - that
better be the cumulative costs since 1975? I hope it is. You coulda had a
Tesla for that! I see you believe in empirical testing. :)
Were the battery packs the same or did you upgrade each time you changed?
Did you do lead acid-to-whatever-to-Li-Ion? What's the story about having to
change the electrical system? You must have started out DC and you went to
AC? AC is the way I'm leaning. I'm no electrical engineer, but it just
seems to make sense.
Once I get my (future) EV going it will become my daily driver, and I will
sell my ICE car.
Ryan G. Plut
"Common sense is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it" - G.
Bernard Shaw
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: My ICE Costs
> Hello Ryan,
>
> I have a comparison cost of my ICE which is a sister car (same model) as
> the EV that goes way back to 1975.
>
> I use the ICE to test out the driving conditions and distances that I will
> then drive the EV on the same course. A onboard Holly computer, told me
> what the best course to take with the EV.
>
> I still have both cars today, which are in better than factory new
> conditions. To attain this like new condition, the ICE maintenance and
> lots of replacements of everything four times, the cost is now over
> $150,000.00 for the ICE, while the EV is now approaching $100,000.00 with
> only one time replacement of the electrical system and three replacements
> of the battery pack.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Plut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:37 PM
> Subject: My ICE Costs
>
>
>> I wanted to see how much I'm spending on my ICE car. Here's a spreadsheet
>> that totals it up. I've driven 60k so far in my Chrysler Concorde. I'm
>> starting my mileage count from 2007 instaed of adding the 60,000 miles to
>> it up front. Also the maintenance column is based on what I've actually
>> spent on the car, carried forward, but doesn't include the $1,200 I just
>> dropped on A/C and tranny work. Of course, the $/gal could (will) go up
>> faster than inflation.
>> I haven't totalled up the initial and ongoing costs of an EV yet. That
>> comes later. But I like to think how much I WILL NOT be spending on gas
>> and oil as I build my EV :-D
>>
>> 60000
>> miles total
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 9523.8
>> Miles per year
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 22.7
>> MPG
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Year
>> Cost of Gas per Gallon*
>> Miles per year
>> Cum. MPY
>> Cost of Gas per Year
>> Cost of Maintenence*
>> Cum. Cost per Year
>>
>> 2007
>> $ 3.00
>> 9523.81
>> 9523.81
>> $ 1,258.65
>> $ 400.00
>> $ 1,658.65
>>
>> 2008
>> $ 3.12
>> 9523.81
>> 19047.62
>> $ 1,309.00
>> $ 416.00
>> $ 3,383.65
>>
>> 2009
>> $ 3.24
>> 9523.81
>> 28571.43
>> $ 1,361.36
>> $ 432.64
>> $ 5,177.65
>>
>> 2010
>> $ 3.37
>> 9523.81
>> 38095.24
>> $ 1,415.81
>> $ 449.95
>> $ 7,043.41
>>
>> 2011
>> $ 3.51
>> 9523.81
>> 47619.05
>> $ 1,472.45
>> $ 467.94
>> $ 8,983.80
>>
>> 2012
>> $ 3.65
>> 9523.81
>> 57142.86
>> $ 1,531.34
>> $ 486.66
>> $ 11,001.81
>>
>> 2013
>> $ 3.80
>> 9523.81
>> 66666.67
>> $ 1,592.60
>> $ 506.13
>> $ 13,100.53
>>
>> 2014
>> $ 3.95
>> 9523.81
>> 76190.48
>> $ 1,656.30
>> $ 526.37
>> $ 15,283.21
>>
>> 2015
>> $ 4.11
>> 9523.81
>> 85714.29
>> $ 1,722.55
>> $ 547.43
>> $ 17,553.19
>>
>> 2016
>> $ 4.27
>> 9523.81
>> 95238.10
>> $ 1,791.46
>> $ 569.32
>> $ 19,913.97
>>
>> 2017
>> $ 4.44
>> 9523.81
>> 104761.90
>> $ 1,863.11
>> $ 592.10
>> $ 22,369.18
>>
>> 2018
>> $ 4.62
>> 9523.81
>> 114285.71
>> $ 1,937.64
>> $ 615.78
>> $ 24,922.60
>>
>> 2019
>> $ 4.80
>> 9523.81
>> 123809.52
>> $ 2,015.14
>> $ 640.41
>> $ 27,578.16
>>
>> 2020
>> $ 5.00
>> 9523.81
>> 133333.33
>> $ 2,095.75
>> $ 666.03
>> $ 30,339.94
>>
>> 2021
>> $ 5.20
>> 9523.81
>> 142857.14
>> $ 2,179.58
>> $ 692.67
>> $ 33,212.19
>>
>> 2022
>> $ 5.40
>> 9523.81
>> 152380.95
>> $ 2,266.76
>> $ 720.38
>> $ 36,199.33
>>
>> 2023
>> $ 5.62
>> 9523.81
>> 161904.76
>> $ 2,357.43
>> $ 749.19
>> $ 39,305.96
>>
>> 2024
>> $ 5.84
>> 9523.81
>> 171428.57
>> $ 2,451.73
>> $ 779.16
>> $ 42,536.85
>>
>> 2025
>> $ 6.08
>> 9523.81
>> 180952.38
>> $ 2,549.80
>> $ 810.33
>> $ 45,896.97
>>
>> 2026
>> $ 6.32
>> 9523.81
>> 190476.19
>> $ 2,651.79
>> $ 842.74
>> $ 49,391.51
>>
>> 2027
>> $ 6.57
>> 9523.81
>> 200000.00
>> $ 2,757.86
>> $ 876.45
>> $ 53,025.82
>>
>> 2028
>> $ 6.84
>> 9523.81
>> 209523.81
>> $ 2,868.18
>> $ 911.51
>> $ 56,805.51
>>
>> 2029
>> $ 7.11
>> 9523.81
>> 219047.62
>> $ 2,982.91
>> $ 947.97
>> $ 60,736.38
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Increase of 4%/Yr for inflation shown
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ryan G. Plut
>> "Common sense is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it" -
>> G. Bernard Shaw
>>
>>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Ryan Plut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:11:26 -0700
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>
> BTW, how do you measure an incline? I was thinking of "charting" my daily
> commute, but haven't the foggiest how to do this.
>
> Matt
>
Are you a hiker? Do you know someone who is?
I bought a Garmin "eTrex" Legend GPS at an REI close-out sale for $69
I already had National Geographics TOPO! on my laptop.
When I get back, I plug the GPS into the laptop with a USB cable, download
the data, and ask for a trip plan and profile. It works walking or driving!
All this for about $120 total.
Ryan G. Plut
"Common sense is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it" - G.
Bernard Shaw
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:39:06 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Batteries are asleep
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks Roland, but my concern is the fact that I am getting about 5kwh
out of the pack and it is lower in voltage than before when I would use
7.2kwh. Now even at 36ah 288V pack would be 10kwh and 80% of that is at
least 8kwh. Will this come back?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:59:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: More utube videos: G-Wiz in London, Solar powered,etc
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
G-Wiz in London UK (ABC News clip):
"Electric Cars, The Technology Exists to Revolutionize Transp"
http://tinyurl.com/f5cbo
Power your electric Car with Solar or Wind:
http://tinyurl.com/ebxll
Electric Delivery Truck:
http://tinyurl.com/looyt
Electric Bike - RUZU Bike:
http://tinyurl.com/epgby
EV Convertors Needed -- Do you qualify?:
http://tinyurl.com/mftej
Do you want to buy an Electric Vehicle?:
http://tinyurl.com/zm2xp
Servicing an electric car:
http://tinyurl.com/norj6
0-62mph:
(...errrr, sort of. In a REVA)
http://tinyurl.com/lm7a7
Electric car:
(more Wrightspeed X1 vid)
http://tinyurl.com/ha53x
REV2006
(Vancouver BC EV show, Global TV footage)
http://tinyurl.com/nu2jp
VEP: Electric Vehicle
http://tinyurl.com/hwvb8
Worlds Fastest Electric Vehicle Designed in SolidWorks:
(Buckeye Bullet)
http://tinyurl.com/m3hbe
hoverboard electric skateboard:
http://tinyurl.com/ng3ru
electric skateboard test:
http://tinyurl.com/qp5gr
electric-vehicle electric-scooter:
http://tinyurl.com/mmtpy
(Caution! Luyuan are just down the road from Yongkang!)
Interesting web site though:
http://www.luyuan-ebike.com/mysite/about.htm
Raging Grannies and Electric Cars (re WKTEC):
http://tinyurl.com/l2zga
M&M 6x4 In Action:
http://tinyurl.com/zgp44
Electric Jedi Knights:
http://tinyurl.com/ltbcq
Méthode Rudelle:
http://tinyurl.com/p8jc3
Internal Combustion Trailer (OT This is the trailer for Edwin Black's
new book, Internal Combustion, to be released on September 10th, 2006.
)
http://tinyurl.com/gyvd6
Enjoy. Looks like there's more EV content on utube as well.
Tks
Lock
Toronto
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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:19:43 -0400
From: "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Two questions....
To: <[email protected]>
Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
What is the amp draw at 19 hp and 65 hp?
Rich in virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: Two questions....
>
>
> --- Joe Plumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> First question: What is a good EV DC motor that
>> produces at least 50 hp and
>> 75 ft lb torque?
> An 8" ADC will give you 19 hp continuous, and 65 hp
> peak.
>>
>> Second: I've been thinking about getting the Optima
>> Yellow Top batteries.
>> Are these
>> thought of as good batteries?
> Yes, especially for drag racing. But they require
> careful regulation during charging, so purchase a
> battery regulator for each of them. Due to added cost
> of the battery right off the bat, plus the added cost
> of the regulator, lots of us use flooded instead. So
> it depends on your application.
> Is there a better
>> battery available with
>> similar specs (12v, C/10 55ah)?
>>
>> Thanks for the thoughts.
>>
>>
> _________________________________________________________________
>> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger!
>> Download today - it's FREE!
>>
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>>
>>
>
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
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> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.8/415 - Release Date: 8/9/2006
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Batteries are asleep
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:36:50 +1000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hi All,
I am wondering the same. Will that capacity come back??
At one point i had not driven my EV for about 3-4 weeks. Kept the batts
charged. However, my effective range was halved and the voltage sagged so
much. they are getting better. I am getting around 15 k's instead of 10 k's.
the more i drive, the better they are. I feel that the batts aborb the
re-charging better when they are constantly being used.
I used to get around 23 km's before. I wish i could get this range back
again.
Anyway, gotta keep driving the beast.
Cheers
>From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: Batteries are asleep
>Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:39:06 -0700
>
>Thanks Roland, but my concern is the fact that I am getting about 5kwh
>out of the pack and it is lower in voltage than before when I would use
>7.2kwh. Now even at 36ah 288V pack would be 10kwh and 80% of that is at
>least 8kwh. Will this come back?
>
_________________________________________________________________
Win petrol with drive.com.au 3 times each weekday!
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B42319378%3B13690542%3Bk&_t=757220195&_m=EXT
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:41:43 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: RE: You know you're a list member when...
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
You know you're a list member when...
"Someone asks you haw far to work and you state the distance to the tenth
of a mile."
Jim
'93 Dodge TEVan
'88 Fiero ESE
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: NiFe Batteries
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:53:49 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Jeff,
Interested, yes!
How much?
Where?
When?
Jim
'93 Dodge TEVan
'88 Fiero ESE
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:06:19 -0700
From: Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Electric Sea Doo PWC
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I've decided to build one of these, the vette will wait :)
Bought the Sea Doo today.
I wanna build one that kicks butt, fastest one on the water, but not
break the bank.
Maybe it won't run a long time, but it's gonna be fast.
The newest fastest Sea Doo is 1.5L supercharged with over 215HP!
Wholly smackeral, that is a bigger motor than my Aspire.
Can an 8" ADC motor get this done?
Am I correct in thinking I don't want to use high voltage because of the
water environment? Max at 48v?
It seems to me for batteries I see three approaches
1. max batteries on board, when the batteries run out, time to go home.
2. swappable batteries, a second set recharges while you play.
3. permanent batteries that you can fast recharge at the lake
Max on board would be easiest, but may not have much fun if they don't last.
I think swappable would be good, but then you probably can't really have
expensive bats if you need two sets.
I'm thinking best is a fast-recharge setup.
Maybe use a big lead-acid battery(s) to dump charge the onboard NiMH
batteries?
As always, appreciate your feedback.
Jack
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:33:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Electric Sea Doo PWC
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Kicking really small butt here:
http://www.eletricjet.blogspot.com/
:)
Lock
Toronto
--- Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've decided to build one of these, the vette will wait :)
> Bought the Sea Doo today.
> I wanna build one that kicks butt, fastest one on the water, but not
> break the bank.
> Maybe it won't run a long time, but it's gonna be fast.
> The newest fastest Sea Doo is 1.5L supercharged with over 215HP!
> Wholly smackeral, that is a bigger motor than my Aspire.
> Can an 8" ADC motor get this done?
> Am I correct in thinking I don't want to use high voltage because of
> the
> water environment? Max at 48v?
>
> It seems to me for batteries I see three approaches
> 1. max batteries on board, when the batteries run out, time to go
> home.
> 2. swappable batteries, a second set recharges while you play.
> 3. permanent batteries that you can fast recharge at the lake
>
> Max on board would be easiest, but may not have much fun if they
> don't last.
> I think swappable would be good, but then you probably can't really
> have
> expensive bats if you need two sets.
> I'm thinking best is a fast-recharge setup.
> Maybe use a big lead-acid battery(s) to dump charge the onboard NiMH
> batteries?
>
> As always, appreciate your feedback.
>
> Jack
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:00:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Electric Sea Doo PWC
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Hawker AGM batteries and a golf cart charger. Full charge in 20 minutes. Fast
enough?
Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Kicking really small butt here:
http://www.eletricjet.blogspot.com/
:)
Lock
Toronto
--- Jack Murray wrote:
> I've decided to build one of these, the vette will wait :)
> Bought the Sea Doo today.
> I wanna build one that kicks butt, fastest one on the water, but not
> break the bank.
> Maybe it won't run a long time, but it's gonna be fast.
> The newest fastest Sea Doo is 1.5L supercharged with over 215HP!
> Wholly smackeral, that is a bigger motor than my Aspire.
> Can an 8" ADC motor get this done?
> Am I correct in thinking I don't want to use high voltage because of
> the
> water environment? Max at 48v?
>
> It seems to me for batteries I see three approaches
> 1. max batteries on board, when the batteries run out, time to go
> home.
> 2. swappable batteries, a second set recharges while you play.
> 3. permanent batteries that you can fast recharge at the lake
>
> Max on board would be easiest, but may not have much fun if they
> don't last.
> I think swappable would be good, but then you probably can't really
> have
> expensive bats if you need two sets.
> I'm thinking best is a fast-recharge setup.
> Maybe use a big lead-acid battery(s) to dump charge the onboard NiMH
> batteries?
>
> As always, appreciate your feedback.
>
> Jack
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 11:34:48 +0530
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
any pics of the ev's in pasadena, santa monica ?
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Marc Geller" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:40 PM
Subject: RE: Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now
> Hi Marc,
>
> LONG time lister (more "lurker" in recent years), but I wanted to let
> you know my wife & I will be in the Huntington beach area for the
> weekend (wedding anniversary) starting this Friday and we want to get
> involved with this. Can you let me know current activities (sit-in, lay-
> in, whatever) or link me up with others who are involved? I can't think
> of better way to spend our anniversary than being arrested for trying
> to halt this stupid senseless and on-going assault on our moral
> responsibilities.
>
> [My last visit to Pasadena was for a sales call at JPL ~2004. I damn
> near fell out of my rental car when I saw all the EV's in town! I was
> actually staying in Santa Monica and had met with a couple of folks in
> the city EV fleet there, so it was a VERY refreshing EV weekend!]
>
> MANY thanks in advance & best regards,
> Jim Waite
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http://austinev.org/evalbum/021.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 02/08/2006
>
>
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:09:35 -0500
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
http://lang.pasadenastarnews.com/socal/gallery2/?folder=news/080906_electric
BTW, since they're so concerned about being far from them due to their move
to Nashville, I extended an offer to keep some for them here. :)
They need to stay where they are, but if they absolutely MUST be moved
somewhere, my garage is a great spot, since I work blocks from the new
headquarters... :)
Matt
On 8/11/06, peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> any pics of the ev's in pasadena, santa monica ?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Marc Geller" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:40 PM
> Subject: RE: Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now
>
>
> > Hi Marc,
> >
> > LONG time lister (more "lurker" in recent years), but I wanted to let
> > you know my wife & I will be in the Huntington beach area for the
> > weekend (wedding anniversary) starting this Friday and we want to get
> > involved with this. Can you let me know current activities (sit-in, lay-
> > in, whatever) or link me up with others who are involved? I can't think
> > of better way to spend our anniversary than being arrested for trying
> > to halt this stupid senseless and on-going assault on our moral
> > responsibilities.
> >
> > [My last visit to Pasadena was for a sales call at JPL ~2004. I damn
> > near fell out of my rental car when I saw all the EV's in town! I was
> > actually staying in Santa Monica and had met with a couple of folks in
> > the city EV fleet there, so it was a VERY refreshing EV weekend!]
> >
> > MANY thanks in advance & best regards,
> > Jim Waite
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > http://austinev.org/evalbum/021.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date:
> 02/08/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo!
> Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>
>
>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
To: EV Discussion List <[email protected]>
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: "WKTEC?" Showing in Washington DC and Gaithersburg, Maryland
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 02:10:53 -0400
The movie is still playing here in DC at the E-Street Theater and
next week it opens at the RIO in Gaithersburg, Maryland.
Due to popular demand I have printed another batch of WKTEC shirts.
Email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for details or check out the EVA/DC
site at http://www.evadc.org.
Chris Paine has one and picked one up for his producer. Chelsea
Sexton helped with the design on the back. So its been a group effort.
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC Webmaster
http://www.evadc.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Electric Sea Doo PWC
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:22:26 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
So you want:
fastest one on the water
215 hp
8" ADC motor
48 volts
Sorry, this combination is impossible. The ADC motor at 48 volts would
be hard pressed to develop 25 hp and would run much too slow to drive the
pump. The 8-inch ADC motor might make a fun jet ski if you don't need
to be the fastest one on the water and can run higher voltage to get more
horsepower and rpm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lock Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Sea Doo PWC
> Kicking really small butt here:
> http://www.eletricjet.blogspot.com/
> :)
> Lock
> Toronto
>
>
> --- Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I've decided to build one of these, the vette will wait :)
>> Bought the Sea Doo today.
>> I wanna build one that kicks butt, fastest one on the water, but not
>> break the bank.
>> Maybe it won't run a long time, but it's gonna be fast.
>> The newest fastest Sea Doo is 1.5L supercharged with over 215HP!
>> Wholly smackeral, that is a bigger motor than my Aspire.
>> Can an 8" ADC motor get this done?
>> Am I correct in thinking I don't want to use high voltage because of
>> the
>> water environment? Max at 48v?
>>
>> It seems to me for batteries I see three approaches
>> 1. max batteries on board, when the batteries run out, time to go
>> home.
>> 2. swappable batteries, a second set recharges while you play.
>> 3. permanent batteries that you can fast recharge at the lake
>>
>> Max on board would be easiest, but may not have much fun if they
>> don't last.
>> I think swappable would be good, but then you probably can't really
>> have
>> expensive bats if you need two sets.
>> I'm thinking best is a fast-recharge setup.
>> Maybe use a big lead-acid battery(s) to dump charge the onboard NiMH
>> batteries?
>>
>> As always, appreciate your feedback.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 06:41:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Electric Sea Doo PWC
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Hey Jack
215 HP is a lot closer to Waylands dual 8, 360 volt set up than a single 8 at
48 volts as was stated earlier. Lower voltage is going to limit your ability
to make this the fastest one on the water. On that note, you could make one
that was at least sporty, I'd go with a 12 to 24 volt OEM rated motor. A
Prestolite MGR motor is 71/4" dia. X 15" 24 volt motor weighing around 75-80
lbs. that I believe 48 volts would push pretty well. I have no idea where the
amps would run but I would guess the range would be short at best. It would be
a lot faster than the video I saw of the little electric one posted earlier
though, hehe.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I've decided to build one of these, the vette will wait :)
Bought the Sea Doo today.
I wanna build one that kicks butt, fastest one on the water, but not
break the bank.
Maybe it won't run a long time, but it's gonna be fast.
The newest fastest Sea Doo is 1.5L supercharged with over 215HP!
Wholly smackeral, that is a bigger motor than my Aspire.
Can an 8" ADC motor get this done?
Am I correct in thinking I don't want to use high voltage because of the
water environment? Max at 48v?
It seems to me for batteries I see three approaches
1. max batteries on board, when the batteries run out, time to go home.
2. swappable batteries, a second set recharges while you play.
3. permanent batteries that you can fast recharge at the lake
Max on board would be easiest, but may not have much fun if they don't last.
I think swappable would be good, but then you probably can't really have
expensive bats if you need two sets.
I'm thinking best is a fast-recharge setup.
Maybe use a big lead-acid battery(s) to dump charge the onboard NiMH
batteries?
As always, appreciate your feedback.
Jack
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