EV Digest 5746
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: "WKTEC?" Showing in Washington DC and Gaithersburg, Maryland
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: My ICE Costs
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Licensing EV's in Illinois
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
4) WKtEC - postponed in Triangle until Sat, Aug 19
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV1: 12 mile range?
by Patrick Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV1: 12 mile range?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: You know you're a list member when...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: You know you're a list member when...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: You know you're a list member when...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) "WKTEC?" Box Office Numbers
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) MIT creates energy manhattan project
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: You know you're a list member when...
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EV's in Pasadena
by "Robert Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: You know you're a list member when...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: EV1: 12 mile range?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) backyard blower builds
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: WKtEC - postponed in Triangle until Sat, Aug 19
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: WKtEC - postponed in Triangle until Sat, Aug 19
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Hey Chip Can't make that one (hehe) but I believe it also opens in Bend today. I plan on seeing it this weekend and can't wait. No big hoopla planned that I know of, but I'll wear my Power of DC shirt, maybe see if the wife fits into my BBB shirt also, although it might look more like BbB, LMAO! Cya Jim Husted Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The movie is still playing here in DC at the E-Street Theater and next week it opens at the RIO in Gaithersburg, Maryland. Due to popular demand I have printed another batch of WKTEC shirts. Email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for details or check out the EVA/DC site at http://www.evadc.org. Chris Paine has one and picked one up for his producer. Chelsea Sexton helped with the design on the back. So its been a group effort. Chip Gribben EVA/DC Webmaster http://www.evadc.org --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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--- Begin Message ---Hello Ryan, The first set of batteries were 90 each 300 amp hour cobalt 2 volt cells that was over 18 inches long at a cost of about $100.00 each in proto type EV call Transformer I. The controller was a modified Cableform 900 amp SCR unit, that also have six large open frame 600 amp contactors, which one was the main, two was the regen, one was the by pass, two was the safety. These package was close to $10,000.00. The on-board battery charger was a SCR type, which the input AC voltage can be anything from 100 volts to 480 volts with a variable current control of 0 to 60 amp continuous. It also could charge the 12 volt accessory battery at the same time it charge the battery pack. The off-board battery charger was also a SCR type with large 3 phase bridge with three 300 amp scr's per phase. No built in power transformer, uses the power line transformer, that is 250 volts delta connected up either in a close delta using three 25 kva transformers or open wye using two 50 kva transformers. This battery charger package is over $10,000.00. The accessory drive units was a Honeywell motor-generator unit, that power A 145 amp @ 12-16 volt DC unit, a power steering unit, a A/C unit, vacuum pump, and water pump for the hot water heating system. I know that the Honeywell motor generator unit was about $1000.00 and the Delco alternator-inverter unit was another $1000.00. The GE motor is something else. This motor was design in house to how the windings are to be done, type, commentator poles, commentator micro mirror, etc. and contract out to GE for building. These motors are way over $10,000.00. Then there is the vehicle modifications and customizing. This was done by Creative Industrial in Detroit. This mod includes extending the car length another foot, a new nose section, reinforced frame sections, heavy duty suspension system rated for 3500 lbs at each wheel. The wheels load rating are rated also at 3500 lbs and the Goodyear Poly tires were rated for 50 psi at a load rating of 2500 lbs. The total new package back in 1976 was $52,500.00. My was a little cheaper, because they did a test run of 1046 miles in 24 hours to show that a EV can run over 1000 miles in 24 hours. I ran with these batteries for about 10 years, and replace them with a shorter battery of 220 AH in a shorter insulated fiberglass battery box that did not run below the body of the car. It was hard to keep the batteries warm even with 1 inch of foam and heater at 35 below zero. So I perform a lot of mod to do this. I ran the standard 6 volt Exide batteries, because I was only driving 2 miles to work and back and it was not cost effected to run a high power batteries that have driven one of these cars to 152 miles driving Chicago city streets. I then drove with this battery pack another 10 years and then do a extreme modification of the whole car. I wanted to keep this proto type EV in existing condition, So I bought a sister car which matches the front and driver compartment of the Transformer I but the rear is a customize trunk hatch back that for a El Camino. It took about 5 years to complete this projected which I still using the same GE motor, but a using a Zilla and a PFC-50B charger and Trojan T-145 batteries all mounted in the center of the car. Another mod I did was to have the pilot shaft of the GE motor drive the accessory units, just like a engine drives this units threw a pulley and belt system by using a Dodge Power coupler and electrical clutch disconnect unit. The suspension system is by PST Performance Suspension Technology and Air Ride Technologies. The axles and differential are Mark Williams Enterprises. When I am going down a steep icy hill, I can connected the motor pilot shaft to the accessory drive to give me a mechanical REGEN, which will slow or maintain the down hill speed. Otherwise, it would be disconnected and the Honeywell motor-generator would drive these units. The driver compartment is modified, using a fold down dash plates that holds seperated indications, instruments and cross connecting terminal boards and Power Anderson 15 to 30 amps terminal strips disconnect units. A large wire way is install down the middle of the car under the center console, that holds all the control and power circuits, that are in seperated shielded conduits. I need to replace this Honeywell unit, with another motor drive unit. So you see, the mods and changes is always a on going project. Roland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Plut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: Re: My ICE Costs > Roland, > I HAD a nice table done in excel that I pasted into mail and it got all > screwed up. Next time I'll try running it thru MSWord first. > I get that your EV costs are 2/3 of the ICE costs, but jeez, $100,000 - > that > better be the cumulative costs since 1975? I hope it is. You coulda had a > Tesla for that! I see you believe in empirical testing. :) > Were the battery packs the same or did you upgrade each time you changed? > Did you do lead acid-to-whatever-to-Li-Ion? What's the story about having > to > change the electrical system? You must have started out DC and you went to > AC? AC is the way I'm leaning. I'm no electrical engineer, but it just > seems to make sense. > > Once I get my (future) EV going it will become my daily driver, and I will > sell my ICE car. > Ryan G. Plut > "Common sense is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it" - > G. > Bernard Shaw > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 5:07 AM > Subject: Re: My ICE Costs > > > > Hello Ryan, > > > > I have a comparison cost of my ICE which is a sister car (same model) as > > the EV that goes way back to 1975. > > > > I use the ICE to test out the driving conditions and distances that I > > will > > then drive the EV on the same course. A onboard Holly computer, told me > > what the best course to take with the EV. > > > > I still have both cars today, which are in better than factory new > > conditions. To attain this like new condition, the ICE maintenance and > > lots of replacements of everything four times, the cost is now over > > $150,000.00 for the ICE, while the EV is now approaching $100,000.00 > > with > > only one time replacement of the electrical system and three > > replacements > > of the battery pack. > > > > Roland > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ryan Plut" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:37 PM > > Subject: My ICE Costs > > > > > >> I wanted to see how much I'm spending on my ICE car. Here's a > >> spreadsheet > >> that totals it up. I've driven 60k so far in my Chrysler Concorde. I'm > >> starting my mileage count from 2007 instaed of adding the 60,000 miles > >> to > >> it up front. Also the maintenance column is based on what I've actually > >> spent on the car, carried forward, but doesn't include the $1,200 I > >> just > >> dropped on A/C and tranny work. Of course, the $/gal could (will) go up > >> faster than inflation. > >> I haven't totalled up the initial and ongoing costs of an EV yet. That > >> comes later. But I like to think how much I WILL NOT be spending on gas > >> and oil as I build my EV :-D > >> > >> 60000 > >> miles total > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> 9523.8 > >> Miles per year > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> 22.7 > >> MPG > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Year > >> Cost of Gas per Gallon* > >> Miles per year > >> Cum. MPY > >> Cost of Gas per Year > >> Cost of Maintenence* > >> Cum. Cost per Year > >> > >> 2007 > >> $ 3.00 > >> 9523.81 > >> 9523.81 > >> $ 1,258.65 > >> $ 400.00 > >> $ 1,658.65 > >> > >> 2008 > >> $ 3.12 > >> 9523.81 > >> 19047.62 > >> $ 1,309.00 > >> $ 416.00 > >> $ 3,383.65 > >> > >> 2009 > >> $ 3.24 > >> 9523.81 > >> 28571.43 > >> $ 1,361.36 > >> $ 432.64 > >> $ 5,177.65 > >> > >> 2010 > >> $ 3.37 > >> 9523.81 > >> 38095.24 > >> $ 1,415.81 > >> $ 449.95 > >> $ 7,043.41 > >> > >> 2011 > >> $ 3.51 > >> 9523.81 > >> 47619.05 > >> $ 1,472.45 > >> $ 467.94 > >> $ 8,983.80 > >> > >> 2012 > >> $ 3.65 > >> 9523.81 > >> 57142.86 > >> $ 1,531.34 > >> $ 486.66 > >> $ 11,001.81 > >> > >> 2013 > >> $ 3.80 > >> 9523.81 > >> 66666.67 > >> $ 1,592.60 > >> $ 506.13 > >> $ 13,100.53 > >> > >> 2014 > >> $ 3.95 > >> 9523.81 > >> 76190.48 > >> $ 1,656.30 > >> $ 526.37 > >> $ 15,283.21 > >> > >> 2015 > >> $ 4.11 > >> 9523.81 > >> 85714.29 > >> $ 1,722.55 > >> $ 547.43 > >> $ 17,553.19 > >> > >> 2016 > >> $ 4.27 > >> 9523.81 > >> 95238.10 > >> $ 1,791.46 > >> $ 569.32 > >> $ 19,913.97 > >> > >> 2017 > >> $ 4.44 > >> 9523.81 > >> 104761.90 > >> $ 1,863.11 > >> $ 592.10 > >> $ 22,369.18 > >> > >> 2018 > >> $ 4.62 > >> 9523.81 > >> 114285.71 > >> $ 1,937.64 > >> $ 615.78 > >> $ 24,922.60 > >> > >> 2019 > >> $ 4.80 > >> 9523.81 > >> 123809.52 > >> $ 2,015.14 > >> $ 640.41 > >> $ 27,578.16 > >> > >> 2020 > >> $ 5.00 > >> 9523.81 > >> 133333.33 > >> $ 2,095.75 > >> $ 666.03 > >> $ 30,339.94 > >> > >> 2021 > >> $ 5.20 > >> 9523.81 > >> 142857.14 > >> $ 2,179.58 > >> $ 692.67 > >> $ 33,212.19 > >> > >> 2022 > >> $ 5.40 > >> 9523.81 > >> 152380.95 > >> $ 2,266.76 > >> $ 720.38 > >> $ 36,199.33 > >> > >> 2023 > >> $ 5.62 > >> 9523.81 > >> 161904.76 > >> $ 2,357.43 > >> $ 749.19 > >> $ 39,305.96 > >> > >> 2024 > >> $ 5.84 > >> 9523.81 > >> 171428.57 > >> $ 2,451.73 > >> $ 779.16 > >> $ 42,536.85 > >> > >> 2025 > >> $ 6.08 > >> 9523.81 > >> 180952.38 > >> $ 2,549.80 > >> $ 810.33 > >> $ 45,896.97 > >> > >> 2026 > >> $ 6.32 > >> 9523.81 > >> 190476.19 > >> $ 2,651.79 > >> $ 842.74 > >> $ 49,391.51 > >> > >> 2027 > >> $ 6.57 > >> 9523.81 > >> 200000.00 > >> $ 2,757.86 > >> $ 876.45 > >> $ 53,025.82 > >> > >> 2028 > >> $ 6.84 > >> 9523.81 > >> 209523.81 > >> $ 2,868.18 > >> $ 911.51 > >> $ 56,805.51 > >> > >> 2029 > >> $ 7.11 > >> 9523.81 > >> 219047.62 > >> $ 2,982.91 > >> $ 947.97 > >> $ 60,736.38 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> * Increase of 4%/Yr for inflation shown > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Ryan G. Plut > >> "Common sense is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got > >> it" - > >> G. Bernard Shaw > >> > >> > > > >
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--- Begin Message ---Hi all, I saw a couple posts on licensing EV's in Illinois but didn't get a chance to comment until now. I licensed a 1998 vehicle with the title transferred to me as a gas vehicle and was just trying to get EV plates for it. I went to the Lombard Facility and just told them, "Yes you do this and please do it for me". It turns out there was one employee that was familiar with the process and he wrote a code on the license application. Thought I was home free. Not so. Whole application was sent back 3 months later with a check for the amount I had paid them. Included was an affidavit that I had to sign and they requested pictures of the car - front, back and side. I called, just to make sure about the pictures. Front, back and side shots don't exactly establish the fact that it's an EV. I suggested that I send a picture of the batteries and motor - they thought that might be a good idea. Seems one gentleman reviews all of these special applications in Springfield. Anyway, about six months later I received my plates. To be fair, there is a lot less staff now and many are new because of recent retirements and a new administration coming in. Next I have to follow-up on Emission Testing before they suspend my license. They are supposed to send me another test date. I think I better check on that. Good Luck. Dana
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--- Begin Message ---For people in the Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill area of North Carolina:Due to scheduling complications, Who Killed the Electric Car has been rescheduled to Saturday, August 19th.
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--- Begin Message ---Hey guys - thanks again for the info. I'm withdrawing from the debate Ireferred to, largely for the reasons mentioned by the good and wise list admin.:-P However, one cite was thrown out regarding NiMH batteries that bugs me, and I wanted to ask for one more opinion for any of you not too busy:Whatever the camera contributions, cold NiMH batteries clearly have a hard time. As the tables below show, NiMH rechargeables lose at least 20% of their deliverable capacity at freezing (32°F, 0°C) without significant loss of voltage; at -20°C, they've lost 80%. Fortunately, the trapped capacity becomes available again on return to room temperature.http://dpfwiw.com/batteries.htm#coldI do wonder how applicable tests of camera batteries would be to an EV pack. Without knowing any better, I'd guess that losing 20% capacity by the time the batteries reach freezing temperatures isn't really that big a deal in practice. We're talking the *batteries* reaching 32F, not the ambient temperature, right? How long would it *take* an in-use pack of NiMH batteries to actually reach 32F? *sigh* Thanks, guys. - Patrick
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--- Begin Message ---The EV1 actually used the air conditioner to cool the Nimh battery pack at times, so I'd guess they warm up pretty easily. --- Patrick Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ... > I do wonder how applicable tests of camera batteries would be to an > EV > pack. Without knowing any better, I'd guess that losing 20% > capacity by > the time the batteries reach freezing temperatures isn't really > that big > a deal in practice. We're talking the *batteries* reaching 32F, not > the > ambient temperature, right? How long would it *take* an in-use pack > of > NiMH batteries to actually reach 32F? ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---Or in Kwhr... not miles Madman ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:41 PM Subject: RE: You know you're a list member when... > You know you're a list member when... > > "Someone asks you haw far to work and you state the distance to the tenth > of a mile." > > > Jim > '93 Dodge TEVan > '88 Fiero ESE > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > >
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--- Begin Message -------- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:15 PM Subject: You know you're a list member when... Hey all I had some time on my hands as I drove back from Portland after lunch with Wayland and the usual motor run. I added some to those I had thought up earlier. These are in no particular order and I hope you enjoy, sorry if I missed anyone. Cya Jim Husted Everytime you see a Prius you picture Rich in the back with a set of jumper cable. A few other items I might have on a Plug in Hybrid test drive. 2 sets of jumper cables 4 kinds of AC plug adapters. All with inter connectable Andersons, danger Danger DANGER Will Robinson! 2 or more PFC chargers ....Umm I dunno but big and not for sale... With a LOT more logic control wires Leaking out of the Blue controller panel. A metal rated Class D fire extinguisher... copper powder... Lithium rated ..Mill spec stuff... $300 to refill... Yellow. A Halon 1211 Class C fire extinguisher... Less mess.. not good for Lithium. Good for general breaker and wire problems. Preflight and post flight check list to keep above equipment from being needed... 2 lap tops. A log of what ELSE Shoulda been in that check list.... What ever kind of battery my current BMS customer is having me evaluate Lets See.. B&B Lead acid Hawker Aero lead Acid... Horizon Lead Acid... funky... Battery for sure!! A123 LiON Valence...LiON Exide lead Acid Optima lead Acid.. Of course Sanyo NiMH from Ford and Panasonic NiMH from Toyota. Have the back windows open for more cooling Hoping that AC rated breaker.. can take one more 240 volt DC Amp... Trying not to get driven over by the Gas guys... and still stay in EV mode Where's Goldie..??? I'll show that SOB to respect EVs!! Wishing Ford and Toyota would publish the CAN packet addresses and what they really do. Trying not to hack up a wire harness on a $30K Hybrid so much that the warrantee is not ridiculously violated.. And live to tell about it. Wishing Ryan was back to help me wire up the Virtual Prius HMD and CANview to the Ford... Wondering if I will actually get paid to pull off another product miracle... Madman Rich Rudman Ok Wise guy.. I will run Spell check.. does that invalidate any of my brains??? Or just put What's left in side the Green boxes in the trunck??
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--- Begin Message ---Any Time Boys anytime... I have about 10 years of Auto crossing.... Fiestas.. in the 80s and 90s. Goldie would Kill. Madman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jude Anthony" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:49 AM Subject: Re: You know you're a list member when... > ProEV wrote: > > We will be happy to race any of you boys but you need to learn how to > > turn. > LMAO. Acceleration is exciting. Dragsters do it once. Autocrossers do > it over and over. And in more than one direction! > > Jude Anthony >
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--- Begin Message --- This site not only has the numbers but also a blog and a great list of reviews: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/who_killed_the_electric_car/numbers.phpRoderick Wilde EV Parts, Inc.www.evparts.com-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.9/416 - Release Date: 8/10/2006
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--- Begin Message ---Some good news for renewable energy research from MIT: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71574-0.html?tw=rss.index Matt
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--- Begin Message ---...errr, with a 401 foot climb half the time (other half of time it's a decline <grin> Lock Toronto --- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Or in Kwhr... not miles > Madman > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:41 PM > Subject: RE: You know you're a list member when... > > > > You know you're a list member when... > > > > "Someone asks you haw far to work and you state the distance to the > tenth > > of a mile." > > > > > > Jim > > '93 Dodge TEVan > > '88 Fiero ESE > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---The big automakers still seem determined to shred every last electric they can. Check out this article found on the Plug In America site (a group dedicated to promoting plug in hybrids.) If you want to help keep these Nissan Hypermini electrics on the road, call Nissan and ask them not to shred them 1-800-647-7261:PASADENA - Quick maneuvering by City Hall and two Pasadena Water and Power vehicles thwarted automaker Nissan from reclaiming its electric cars Tuesday from city yards.
Under a high-noon sun, two flatbed trucks sent to remove the zero-emission Hyperminis were met with little cooperation from the city, which said the unannounced move created logistical difficulties.
"We have a process for everything, and there is a process for this," city spokesowman Ann Erdman said.
It didn't make it any easier on the contracted haulers that two PWP vehicles, including an all-electric RAV4, had blocked the road.
"I don't think they're going anywhere today," Jeff Lawrence, a Nissan-contracted hauler, said of the small, mint- and silver-colored cars. City officials played down any appearances of conflict or resistance, saying a procedural hold-up prevented them from releasing the vehicles.
As long as Deputy City Attorney Nicholas Rodriguez was reviewing the lease agreements, Erdman said, Pasadena could not release the vehicles.
As to the impromptu blockade, she said it was nothing more dramatic than a poor parking job, officials said.
"I think it was an employee coming to the back part of the yards and parking their car," Erdman said.
Erdman said the city had neither contacted Nissan before the automaker's drivers left nor asked them to leave.
Before their departure, Lawrence said Nissan was not directly responsible for the fate of the electric car.
"It's the oil companies that won't leave them on the road," he said.
Nissan declined to renew the leases after they expired in December and subsequently asked they be returned.
A spokesman for the Japanese manufacturer said he had yet to hear about Tuesday's incident in Pasadena.
"I'm finding out more and more as to why we really do have to take these things back and send them back to Japan or recycle them," said Tony Pearson, manager of technology and motorsports for Nissan North America. "It's going to be a tough issue, but there's things we have no control of."
Pearson said the manufacturer of the car's battery would no longer be making them, and Nissan's relocation from Gardena to Nashville, Tenn., would preclude its ability to maintain the cars.
"It's not just what you see on the surface: `Bad Nissan, they're just taking these cars back,"' he said.
Pearson declined to name the battery-maker
and could not specify what maintenance was required.
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John Hoffner, PWP's public benefits manager, said the city's mechanics are able to maintain the cars and have required little support from Nissan.
Lawrence said the cars would be taken to an Anaheim facility where a large "paddle-wheel" device would grind them down to component pieces for recycling.
"We won this round, now we go to round two," said Paul Scott, co-founder of Plug In America, which has campaigned for automakers to leave their electric cars on the road.
Driving a near-extinct GM EV1, it was Scott's second trip from Santa Monica to Pasadena in 24 hours - he addressed the City Council at Tuesday evening's meeting.
He said his worst fear was getting to Pasadena and finding the cars already loaded.
"As long as they are still on the ground and in the possession of the city of Pasadena, we have a chance," Scott said. "When I got here and saw the truck leaving empty, I got a big smile on my face."
He got wind of Tuesday's action from Bill Provence, a Pasadena resident and green-power proponent.
"It's a good sign that they left and have not taken them today, but Nissan could be back tomorrow," said Provence, who also appealed to the city at Monday's meeting.
Nissan did not show up for two previously scheduled pick-ups, Erdman said.
At Monday evening's council meeting, Provence said he expected Nissan to try to end the matter by picking up the cars soon.
Tuesday morning, PWP employee Irma Cid-Lujan was at the city yard when she discovered the two haulers inspecting the vehicles.
She informed her surprised superiors at the municipal energy company and then, she said, did her best to stall them while the city evaluated its options.
Although Pasadena denies taking an activist role, Scott said he was "proud" of the city's efforts to protect the vehicles. "We're very proud - Pasadena is the first municipality to stand up and take this on," he said.
(626) 578-6300, Ext. 4444
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--- Begin Message ---Or you change your route, not to shorten the distance or the time, but to lower the kWh used. My commute is now 12.4 miles ... err, wait - that was the first one... Cor van de Water Systems Architect Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925 Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743 Take your network further http://www.proxim.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rich Rudman Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 10:41 AM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: You know you're a list member when... Or in Kwhr... not miles Madman ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:41 PM Subject: RE: You know you're a list member when... > You know you're a list member when... > > "Someone asks you haw far to work and you state the distance to the tenth > of a mile." > > > Jim > '93 Dodge TEVan > '88 Fiero ESE > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > >
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--- Begin Message ---I called Nissan USA to tell them that I would be very interested in buying a second hand HyperMini and that I probably can find many others interested as well. (I get about one question every two weeks to my private email address how to buy a electric car) I suggest you also call Nissan USA to tell them about your interest: Nissan Consumer Affairs P.O. Box 685003 Franklin TN 37068-5003 (800) NISSAN-1 (or 800-647-7261) Cor van de Water Systems Architect Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925 Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743 Take your network further http://www.proxim.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Kenigson Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:10 PM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now http://lang.pasadenastarnews.com/socal/gallery2/?folder=news/080906_electric BTW, since they're so concerned about being far from them due to their move to Nashville, I extended an offer to keep some for them here. :) They need to stay where they are, but if they absolutely MUST be moved somewhere, my garage is a great spot, since I work blocks from the new headquarters... :) Matt On 8/11/06, peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > any pics of the ev's in pasadena, santa monica ? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Marc Geller" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:40 PM > Subject: RE: Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now > > > > Hi Marc, > > > > LONG time lister (more "lurker" in recent years), but I wanted to let > > you know my wife & I will be in the Huntington beach area for the > > weekend (wedding anniversary) starting this Friday and we want to get > > involved with this. Can you let me know current activities (sit-in, lay- > > in, whatever) or link me up with others who are involved? I can't think > > of better way to spend our anniversary than being arrested for trying > > to halt this stupid senseless and on-going assault on our moral > > responsibilities. > > > > [My last visit to Pasadena was for a sales call at JPL ~2004. I damn > > near fell out of my rental car when I saw all the EV's in town! I was > > actually staying in Santa Monica and had met with a couple of folks in > > the city EV fleet there, so it was a VERY refreshing EV weekend!] > > > > MANY thanks in advance & best regards, > > Jim Waite > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://austinev.org/evalbum/021.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: > 02/08/2006 > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! > Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html > > >
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--- Begin Message ---Patrick, I think it was hinted at before: it depends where you park, as the chance will take hours, up to days if the pack is isolated. Roland and many others have this setup where they have an isolated pack (usually with air blowing through for cooling to avoid overheating when the temperature is sensed to be over a threshold) and the isolated pack does not significantly change temp during the drive or even during the hours that the car is sitting outside of the garage. Some have heated packs (because their garage or parking place is not heated) and they operate usually only during charging, but it even makes sense to heat the batteries using the battery power, the increase of capacity is more than the heaters use during the trip if you design it well. I live in California. Water lines are above ground here. I do not care for pack heating. Pack cooling could be an issue, but I never draw high currents, so I expect that my batteries (lead acid) will be fine in the hot days while most cold days mean that we are in the low 50's. Occasionally temperatures dip below freezing at night but my truck is in the garage, so it should be good until I have an onboard charger and start parking it outside. By that time I also hope to have battery regulators and may add a few temp sensors on batteries to keep a tab on the effect of the temperature. Incidentally my battery box is modified with openings to draw air through the box - this is done because this truck is equipped with an extremely powerful charger that can send 20 kW (theoretically even more, but the 3-phase plug limits the current) into the batteries (and reverse, but that is another story). The company doing this had a nasty experience with a box containing sealed batteries blowing up because at high currents even 'sealed' batteries vent. That was the reason to add vents to the box, so it could get rid of the hydrogen using a simple fan. My charge current now is always below 10A so I send a max of 3.5 kW into the pack and I do not need the ventilation, because I try to stay out of the area where the AGMs vent. Regards, Cor van de Water Systems Architect Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925 Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743 Take your network further http://www.proxim.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Patrick Clarke Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 9:12 AM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: EV1: 12 mile range? Hey guys - thanks again for the info. I'm withdrawing from the debate I referred to, largely for the reasons mentioned by the good and wise list admin. :-P However, one cite was thrown out regarding NiMH batteries that bugs me, and I wanted to ask for one more opinion for any of you not too busy: > Whatever the camera contributions, cold NiMH batteries clearly have a > hard time. As the tables below show, NiMH rechargeables lose at least > 20% of their deliverable capacity at freezing (32°F, 0°C) without > significant loss of voltage; at -20°C, they've lost 80%. Fortunately, > the trapped capacity becomes available again on return to room temperature. > http://dpfwiw.com/batteries.htm#cold I do wonder how applicable tests of camera batteries would be to an EV pack. Without knowing any better, I'd guess that losing 20% capacity by the time the batteries reach freezing temperatures isn't really that big a deal in practice. We're talking the *batteries* reaching 32F, not the ambient temperature, right? How long would it *take* an in-use pack of NiMH batteries to actually reach 32F? *sigh* Thanks, guys. - Patrick
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--- Begin Message ---In conversation with an unlisted EV'er, it was mentioned that garden-variety leaf blowers have a universal motor that could be quite happily hooked between the 170 Vmax motor terminals, and depending on the model, only steal 7 to 12 amps from the Zilla. Of course, the idea of a screaming leaf blower cooling my EV was very unappealing, until I considered the cool 'turbine spoolup' sound that would accompany an increasing throttle. Add in a DPDT contactor, and the blower can loaf along quietly at 12v for gentle loads, then get switched to motor volts for big-time cooling. (But never see pack voltage on my 240 Vnom setup.) Have any of you old-skoolers already tried this one? Cheers, Jay Donnaway www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
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--- Begin Message ---Is there a web site which gives full information on revised release dates in other areas? > For people in the Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill area of North Carolina: > > Due to scheduling complications, Who Killed the Electric Car has been > rescheduled to Saturday, August 19th. >
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--- Begin Message ---I'm not sure. I checked around to the two or three places I knew had release dates and none of them were ever updated, including the WKtEC site (which I found to be annoying as it didn't have a way to contact the maintainers to let them know about the update). Matt On 8/11/06, Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Is there a web site which gives full information on revised release dates in other areas? > For people in the Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill area of North Carolina: > > Due to scheduling complications, Who Killed the Electric Car has been > rescheduled to Saturday, August 19th. >
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--- Begin Message ---To navigate the IVR press: Option 7 (any other questions) Option 4 (other questions or concerns) Then hold for a while... My hold time was about 14 minutes. I don't know how effective this is going to be as an advocacy action, though. The representative I spoke with said she has gotten several calls about the Hyperminis (although she had to ask me to repeat it three times, so was left with a feeling she wasn't being completely truthful) and that "The marketing department for this hasn't been set up yet so we have been advised to direct consumers to our website and have them contact us through the website". Given my experience with the management of large call-centers, I would guess the report that there was a spike in calls about the Hyperminis won't get into any influential person's hands for at least a week. My guess is that either the CSR (who was almost confrontational about my inquiry even though I took pains to be as friendly and cheerful as possible) made up her story on the spot or the instructions she received regarding Hypermini calls came from a supervisor or floor-level manager, not from corporate. Matt On 8/11/06, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I called Nissan USA to tell them that I would be very interested in buying a second hand HyperMini and that I probably can find many others interested as well. (I get about one question every two weeks to my private email address how to buy a electric car) I suggest you also call Nissan USA to tell them about your interest: Nissan Consumer Affairs P.O. Box 685003 Franklin TN 37068-5003 (800) NISSAN-1 (or 800-647-7261) Cor van de Water Systems Architect Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925 Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743 Take your network further http://www.proxim.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Kenigson Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:10 PM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now http://lang.pasadenastarnews.com/socal/gallery2/?folder=news/080906_electric BTW, since they're so concerned about being far from them due to their move to Nashville, I extended an offer to keep some for them here. :) They need to stay where they are, but if they absolutely MUST be moved somewhere, my garage is a great spot, since I work blocks from the new headquarters... :) Matt On 8/11/06, peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > any pics of the ev's in pasadena, santa monica ? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Marc Geller" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu > > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:40 PM > Subject: RE: Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now > > > > Hi Marc, > > > > LONG time lister (more "lurker" in recent years), but I wanted to let > > you know my wife & I will be in the Huntington beach area for the > > weekend (wedding anniversary) starting this Friday and we want to get > > involved with this. Can you let me know current activities (sit-in, lay- > > in, whatever) or link me up with others who are involved? I can't think > > of better way to spend our anniversary than being arrested for trying > > to halt this stupid senseless and on-going assault on our moral > > responsibilities. > > > > [My last visit to Pasadena was for a sales call at JPL ~2004. I damn > > near fell out of my rental car when I saw all the EV's in town! I was > > actually staying in Santa Monica and had met with a couple of folks in > > the city EV fleet there, so it was a VERY refreshing EV weekend!] > > > > MANY thanks in advance & best regards, > > Jim Waite > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://austinev.org/evalbum/021.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: > 02/08/2006 > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! > Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html > > >
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