EV Digest 5779
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV digest 5777
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) re: a great photo
by Dylan Pfeifer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Low Voltage DC EVs (was: RE: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning)
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Bigger ETECs was Re: Low Voltage DC EVs
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: I need a dc-dc converter
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Well that didn't work
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EBEAA Meeting/Rally - this Saturday August 26, 2006 10-4 @ Chabot College,
Haryward
by "Ed Thorpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Well that didn't work
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Low Voltage DC EVs (was: RE: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Driving habbits
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: I don't need a dc-dc converter
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: 72 Volt conversion idea
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Article in Electronic Design about Tesla
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Driving habbits
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) What I Learned This Weekend
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Driving habbits
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) eCobra won't be @ NEDRA Late Night this weekend, but I will be...
by "Michael T Kadie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Well that didn't work
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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I get that! With my truck I expect a certain range and it's further
now. It's a sweet payback for the work.
1) LRR tires at 50 psi, rate at 44psi.
2) 1300 lbs lighter. (This was labor intensive.)
Experimenting with regen is next. Finding how much it helps under what
specific driving conditions. Then trying yet another chemistry. Also I
think having a belly pan made from Cloroplast from what I've seen is
useful.
So I hope to have a list like yours to help others see what is possible.
Mike
>
> It's kind of wierd, since putting the wheels on I'm having to kind
of re-learn the car. The places I regularly drive too would usually
use a fairly predictable amount of power, it's less now.
>
> Rick
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips"
> To: "Ricky Suiter"
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 5:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Making it more efficient
>
>
> > Awesome story!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Hi Mike an' All;
>
> Here we have the List at it's Finist!A real "It works for me"and how to
> do it . Shared with anybody that wants. Thanks Ricky, to ,for the cool
> links! In EV's it is ofter the relentless persuit of perfection,
that makes
> a converson a winner.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ricky Suiter wrote:
> > >
> > > Some observations on picking up efficiency with my Saturn SC
conversion.
> > >
> > > It's a 144 volt pack of Trojan 30XHS batteries, not that much
> > energy on board
> > > Zilla 1K controller (limited to 500 pack murdering battery amps)
> > > 9" ADC motor
> > > Stock "performance" manual transmission... performance version has
> > higher gear ratios which is more ideal for electric motors
> > >
> > > When I first got the car converted it has some no name tires on
> > it. I don't do a whole lot of highway cruising with it so my baseline
> > is amps at 40mph steady on flat ground int he city. It took about 70
> > amps to hold 40mph initially.
> > >
> > > First modification was to get the old horrible rubber off of it
> > and put some decent tires with lower rolling resistance
> > characteristics on it, and the old tires were in bad shape too. Going
> > to Goodyear Integrity tires in 185/60R15's dropped 10 amps now
> > requiring 60 amps to hold 40mph.
> > >
> > > Second and third mod's happened at about the same time, I had it
> > alligned for 0 toe in and removed the stock wing from the car. I
> > noticed a little more from the wing being gone on the highway, but
> > overall these dropped the car down to 50 amps.
> > >
> > > Fourth and fifth mod occured both pretty recently, but close
> > enough together to notice a difference with each. Fourth was playing
> > with the brakes. The flexible brake lines looked to be original. These
> > rubber hoses will tend to expand with age and not let all the brake
> > fluid go back in to the resivor, I replaced all of them and at the
> > same time got the caliper rebuild kits for the front disk brakes. This
> > consisted basically of new rubber O-rings which help retract the
> > piston from the pads. I only drove it some before making modification
> > number 5, but this in itself made another good 5 amp difference.
> > >
> > > Modification number five happened today, which was installing
> > light weight wheels. I found some 15X7" wheels weighing in at only
> > 12.6 lbs! And even better they didn't totally break the bank. They are
> > Kosei K1's, tire rack sells them and they are about $150 a piece,
> > which included all necessary hardware, and they look really good to
> > boot. While at discount tire getting them installed I observed three
> > people crouched around the box the wheels came in writing the
> > information down. I chatted with one of the guys and they said the
> > shop manager had never felt a wheel so light weight and wanted to know
> > what they were and where I got them because he wanted a set. I should
> > also mention that the 14" version of these wheels weights in at 9.5
> > lbs for those of you with smaller wheels and tires. I requested 40psi,
> > which didn't happen. As I drove home the amps had actually increased a
> > tad, but upon checking the tire pressure it was less than 30lbs so I
> > pumped them back up and about an
> > > hour later left for work. I'm now down to about 40 amps to hold
> > 40mph. Acceleration uses way less power. 150 amps accelerates quicker
> > than 200 amps used to! And the car already had alloy wheels, which
> > upon lifting them by theirselves it was apparent I had saved a lot of
> > rotational mass (I need to weigh the old wheels to see just how big of
> > a difference I made, but it feels like about half!).
> > >
> > > So in short over the last year I've taken the car from 70 amps to
> > hold 40mph down to 40 amps to hold the same speed. This is a HUGE
> > improvement! At this point my pack is already on it's way out, however
> > the range when I get a new pack (probably in another year) will be far
> > greater than what it was before. This is nearing almost a 50%
> > improvement over how it was when the car first moved under it's own
> > power as an electric conversion! Ok so granted that 3/8" overall toe
> > out wasn't helping any, but there are things you can to to gain
> > efficiency and therefore range.
> > >
> > > I'm not 100% sure where I can go from here now. I'm thinking other
> > aerodynamic modificaitons are about all I can do. I suppose making a
> > belly pan is about all there if left. Anyone else have any other
ideas?
> > >
> > > Here are the wheels:
> > >
> >
>
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/DisplayWheel.jsp?wheelMake=Kosei&wheelModel=K1+TS&wheelFinish=Silver+Painted
> > >
> > > Here's the manufacturers page for the wheels:
> > > http://www.koseijp.co.jp/engfl/n_p5_k1.htm
> > > Weight performance
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > The only wheels ligher I've ever found are Volk TE37's at abotu
> > $300-$400 a piece! And they aren't $300 a piece lighter either.
> > >
> > > It's a totally different car with those wheels, highly recommended.
> > >
> > >
> > > Later,
> > > Ricky
> > > 02 Insight
> > > 92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
> > > Glendale, AZ USA
> > >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and
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Hey List:
Sort of a newbie post here. I've never seen this photo before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ed_d22m.jpg
It's almost as if he's looking straight at you and saying... "see? ..."
:)
Dylan Pfeifer
Austin, TX
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Yep well said Dave!
I have noticed with my EV @ 72 volts on weak batteries. i am actually
driving the speed limit and i have always someone close to my arse. If i do
that in my regular gasoline car when i had it before, i would have got
horned!
However, with the novelty of my EV some people actually take the time to
have a closer look before they speed off usually 20km/hr over the speed
limit. Sometimes i feel that people are always overtaking me and that my EV
is slow, but in fact, i am going the speed limit!
I reackon, if you want to go fast, do it, enjoy it like what david said, but
don't endanger everyone's life around you.
Cheers
On 21/08/06, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 20 Aug 2006 at 15:19, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> While I agree a lot of it is cultural, educating everyone to my right to
> my slower viewpoint every time I pull away from a stoplight is hazardous
> in Fresno.
With all due respect, I hear this over and over. Everybody seems to know
(or live in) some city where traffic is fiendishly fast. In such a place
you may as well replace your controller with a contactor, or expect to be
"run over." All the other drivers floor their accelerators when the light
turns green, and woe to you if you hold them up!
To put it as gently as possible, I find this less than persuasive. I have
yet to drive in an area where I felt that I had to drive "pedal to the
metal." I drive the way I drive no matter where I am, and that means I
accelerate smoothly, drive the speed limit, and brake gently to a stop
when
I have to (I'd rather coast up to a light that turns green just as I get
there).
Yes, I'm sometimes tailgated, but the same drivers will tailgate people
who
drive fast, too. And I don't feel very threatened by tailgaters
anyway. If
they hit my car, they'll be the ones cited.
You may say that everyone around you is driving as fast as you are - but I
guarantee that you're still passing people. If you slow down you'll find
that suddenly you're surrounded by a contingent of people doing the speed
limit. Surprise! Even in busy cities, I can almost always find a lane
with
a cadre of drivers doing the speed I want to drive.
To each his own. I mean no criticism, but I like saving energy, whether
it's electricity or gasoline. Beyond the principle of it, that keeps
money
in my pocket, not just from using less energy but also from being able to
use less expensive, simpler vehicles and drive systems.
But others have different priorities. There's no shame in enjoying speed
if
you do it safely. Just do it and have fun. You don't need an excuse like
"I'll get run over if I don't." ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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> > Rich offered:
> > But there's no reason why a scaled up version of an ETEK
> > couldn't be produced which delivered 18kw steady at 48v,
> > allowing a single-motor, efficient, permag low voltage
> > DC solution.
Scaled up ETEK seen here:
http://www.lynxmotiontechnology.com/e813.htm
32" and 650lbs
850vDC cont.
130kW cont.
peak torque 664 lbf-ft
(or better if you upgrade from their stock/lame inverter)
good efficiency at claimed >98%
yeah, yeah, not low volts, but in a pinch can do
weapons turrets also
:)
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid
ps... Motor has a baby bro also, 155vDC, 6k rpm, only 6.2kW
8.9" 18.5lbs same cute face but only 95% efficient
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--- Begin Message ---
Jeff
The Swiftech pumps looks pretty good. Did you find the mcp650 for $39 or was it
the mcp350? I
haven't seen a price better than double that for the 650. Also, what brand
dc-dc are you looking
at, and what is your pack voltage?
Thanks
Dave Cover
"Resistance is Utile"
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks victor, I saw the 600W unit and while it is a much better fit on
> the 14V end, it won't work with my pack voltage. :-( I think I had
> mentioned that requierment much earlier in this thread.
>
> I DO understand the difference between "built for EV Automotive use" and
> "makeing something work"
> I see the Value Brusa has in that area but just can't afford it or sell
> it. I want to develop a list of worthy products before I open an EV shop
> or store here in Fresno.
>
> I am going with about 750W unit ("1000W max continuous") for about $240.
> Though not waterproof or actually intended for road use, we will see how
> long it lasts.
>
> I like trying some of these lower cost options to see which ones
> actually have merit. I have been using a MCP350 water pump to cool the
> zilla. This is a continous duty magnetically driven water pump used for
> colling PC's. Though known as the swiftech mcp350, It originally was
> built by delphi(still has delphi logo and packaging when you get it) to
> cool electronics in cars. But it appears to be borderline, Without the
> dc-dc when the 12V drops, it can't keep the zilla cool. Its bigger
> brother the 650 arrives monday.
>
>
> I tried an RV sink water pump, the smallest one, but the continous duty
> for the EV resulted in a short , noisy life. These CPU water pumps are
> quiet and because they have no shaft seals, they use very little power
> for their output. I will let the list know how they perform. They
> currently run $39.
>
>
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Ah, getting out a broken tap. Something I am unfortunantly experianced in.
4-40 is a toughy, just cause it is so small. Sometimes, since the 4-40
is so small and usually a 2 flute tap you can take a .156 pin and a
dremel with a cut off wheel and make a tap extractor. put a slot in the
top of the pin and flatten off the tap, slip it over and turn back and
forth. But the 4/40 is so small this is tough and a one sided tool may
be needed.
If it broke during removal of the tap go forward first, use some
lubricant, rock it back and forth and if you got it blast out the wedged
chips that caused the problem.
What I usually do with such a small thread (if a similar location is not
available) is to throw it up on the EDM with a copper tube and burn out
the center. This would be overkill for most of us, but I was working on
thousands or 10's of thousands of tooling.
Perhaps if we are talking a steel tap in aluminum, heating the alum
allows the hole to expand (alum expands more than steel) then a shot of
air blast cools the steel shrinking it and loosening it.
I have had the same issue with drills and taps from orchards and such
and now just go to the local industrial supplier for my taps and drills.
alternatives:
Did I understand correct, you have good working 6/32 holes? Buy a pair
of doorman studs that are 6/32 on one side and 4/40 on the other and use
a nut?
or
drill those out to 1/4 20, screw in with lock-tite an aluminum all
thread, cut flush and file smooth and then drill and tap 4/40.
access to a press? drill ream and then press a plug of alum in, machine
flat and re--tap.
At leaset the part is small enough and usually accessable to take off
the motor and go visit some machine shops around your town, Before I
worked at a machine shop, I got more done on a friday night with a
sixpack of beer than any amount of money could of.
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*********START OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***********
Topic: "EVs are Alive" Display and Ride-along Rally
Date: Saturday, August 26, 2006 , 10 am to 4 pm.
Location: Chabot College, Hayward, CA
Visitors welcome, open to the public.
Our Fall Rally.has arrived, with the start of the
academic school year. The Chabot Automotive Technology
Department is once again hosting us for our display
and ride-along Rally, with the autoshop, college
students and families shopping at Southland Mall on
back-to-school weekend as our audience.
Come join us to display your NEVs, Production EVs,
conversion, electric bicycles and scooters and let the
public know that EVs are around, alive and providing
clean transportation in the Bay Area.
Charging is available at the College, with 110vac in
the autoshop for pre-Rally charging. Contact Ed for
arrangement.
Upcoming meeting topics:
* Sept 23, EVs for Dummies: The CityEL - presented by
Peter Senkowsky (and possibly others) and also some
perspective on other EVs developed and running in
Germany.
* Sept 30, SVEAA Rally in Palo Alto!
* Oct 28, EVs for Dunnies: The Toyota RAV4 EV -
presented by EBEAA member StEVe Greenberg (and others)
with focus on how this flagship EV has been enduring
the post-ZEV mandate years.
* Nov 18, EVs for Dummies: The Electrathon vehicle -
presented by EBEAA member Bob Cooley, with focus on
how students are getting exposed to EVs in the SF Bay
Area. Also we will be having our Chapter officers'
election.
http://www.ebeaa.org
**********END OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT************
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HI-
I always buy "Hanson & Whitney spiral point " taps when they are available.
When it starts to get dull throw it away and buy a new one.
F.T.
> [Original Message]
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 8/20/2006 9:03:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Well that didn't work
>
> As far as getting the bolt hole usable @ 4/40 I would suggest a thread
repair
> product called a "helicoil". These are available in a kit that has the
correct
> oversize drill, special tap and thread inserts that looks like a spring,
you
> basically just drill the hole oversize, tap it with the special helicoil
tap
> then install the thread insert with the provided tool. Should be
available
> from most better nut and bolt or machine tool suppliers. Good luck, David
> Chapman.
>
> Quoting Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > Note for the record: Home Depot does not sell tools, they sell problems.
> >
> > The POS 4/40 thread taps that HD sells basically break off in the
holes.
> > Which of course renders the hole worthless. Same with their garbage
> > quality bolts that twist off in holes.
> >
> > On the other hand, sears Craftsman drills will drill through a
> > "hardened" (ie butter) tap from Home Depot. Live and learn.
> >
> > While trying to center the mounting plate I made the mistake of
drilling
> > out the holes that were used for the old sensor on the motor. I now
> > can't use them with a 4/40 bolt anymore. Anyone have any ideas on how
to
> > make them work again without going to 6/32 size?
> >
> > Anyway I mounted the plate, then tried it out. Big grinding, turns out
> > my wonderful motor has a bearing end that is sticking out into the
> > encoder space. So when you mount the encoder with the ears, it bends
and
> > makes a mess. Pulled it, put washers under bolt, put it back together.
> > Truck acts as if there is no sensor.
> >
> > AAARRRGGGH!!!!!!
> >
> > Broke the sender taking it off the truck. I don't know if it was
> > defective, wired wrong or what. But it's *REALLY* annoying to blow yet
> > another 8 hours on this damn truck.
> >
> > Any ideas? Anyone in MD have a whole motor with an encoder on the end;
> > I'm ready to rip this whole motor out.
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> FastQ Communications
> Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
>
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I think we are on the same page, there are 3 speeds here we are talking
about and they do vary per town/state. slow,fast, and dangerously slow
(and I guess there is a dangerously fast too)
But There may be one more thing we EV'rs need to watch out for,
psychological speed. The EV only uses two gears to cover what I used
to do with 4 gears and a lot more rev's, clutch and repeat action; with
associated engine noise and exhaust noise. The EV can accelerated
quieter and smoother and may be accelerating faster than I think.
Sometimes I look in my rear-view mirror and wonder if the guy behind me
is haveing problems, other times I have trouble keeping up with the car
in front and not getting a push from the car behind.
I have noticed that man does this thing coast! It is a new learning
experiance to let off earlier and save the brakes and coast up to the
light. I do this when traffic is light and it saves a lot of energy,
cool. In the ICE, the compression braking (even on the automatic) forces
you to keep your foot on the gas until you get close, then brake later.
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Hey all
There's been a lot of discussion about driving speeds of late, so I thought
I'd chime in here. First off I live in what I call the 45 MPH State where if
it isn't icy in the winter there are far to many motorhomes and camp trailers
being hauled, all going 45. I'm a point "A" to point "B" driver and rarely if
EVer drive just to drive. My car is just another tool I use to make life
easier and quicker. Regardless of whether you admit it or not, time "is" money
so to speak and I wonder if any of you slow guys consider this into your
equations?
As I read a lot of these type of posts I think to myself, Haven't these
people ever heard of grid-lock?
Just the other day there was a guy in the front at a red light with 20 cars
behind him, he took off so slow that a guy had time to turn left in front of
him, thats just not right! Yep you guessed it like 4 cars made the light!
That's out of about 20 to 30 that are waiting their turn. Now I live in a town
of only about 20K people and the green light to car ratio is a joke!
Oregon is also the state where drivers don't care what's behind them, and
after they've pulled out in front of you going below the speed limit, you are
now behind them, lmao! As far as speeds and driving are concerned if I drive
fast I do not impede you, but a slow driver does effect everyone behind them
that wants to drive faster. Before the hate mail comes first I have a perfect
driving record and second I'm not talking about doing 100MPH either!
Having built 15,000 electric motors in 25 years I've done more than most to
reduce gas usage and emmissions maybe more than this whole group put together
so I've done my bit for King and Counrty! So if you see the Hi-Torque truck
riding your arse all I ask is you get the heck out of my way! My question to
you all is while you are saving those watts has anyone calculated the wasted
energy being used by the 20 or so people left standing at the light as you egg
peddle on through, not just in gas but in time? There should be a happy medium
for when traffic is thick.
Let the hate mail begin, hehe.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
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Hello to Jack and All,
This thread of whether to use a DC-DC or not has come up often over the
years.
Jack Murray wrote:
I'm a little puzzled why the need for a dc-dc converter.
It's all about having a quality driving experience, not a miserable one.
Having a good DC-DC keeps the headlights crisp and bright, wipers
running swiftly, etc., just as they were when the vehicle was gas
powered and had an alternator that kept things at 14+ volts fairly
consistently. I say 'fairly' because with conventional gas cars, each
time you come to a stop and the engine slows down to idle speeds, the
system voltage sags to less than 14 volts, usually down to 13.5 or
so...coming down from 14.3-14.5, that's a 1 volt drop that's noticeable
as headlights dim down, wipers slow down, and air flow from the
ventilation/heater/AC system slows. An EV without a DC-DC has dimming
headlights, slow chattering windshield wipers, and in general, a
miserable 12V system. Why suffer with this, when a DC-DC instantly
changes it from miserable to outstanding? In an EV with a good DC-DC,
unlike the gas car, when stopped, everything is still rock'n at 14+
volts, so in the area of the 12V system, suddenly the EV has the edge
and is the one with the best, most stable 12V system.
why not use a pack battery to provide the accessory power?
1. Isolation. why is it important to isolate the acc power from the
traction pack? Well, then perhaps just use an accessory battery, and
recharge it when the pack recharges by adding it to the string during
charging.
12 volt system isolation is important for shock hazard safety and for
safety from accidental shorts to the car's metal body frame that could
result in spectacular welding incidents! Lean over the fender of your
car, or be wearing shorts and have your shin against the chrome bumper
and touch the positive of a 12V accessory battery isolated from the pack
and you get nothing (12V below the shock potential). Do the same with a
grounded HV pack, and you might be on the way to a hospital or worse.
Accidentally short the 12V battery to ground and you get high current
that can do damage....but man oh man, if you short a good portion of a
high current, high voltage EV pack, you'll likely blow a hole through a
fender, or possibly start a full blown plasma affair!
You seem to answer your own question with the 'solution' of simply using
an accessory battery, then recharging it at the same time you recharge
the HV pack. Using an unassisted 12V battery (12.8V actual) means the
light circuit's 15-17 amp draw will sag it down to around 12.5
immediately, then lower and lower as the miles go by. This means your
nighttime driving experience is one with dull headlights from the outset
(running at 12.5V instead of 14.5V), then duller and yellower as the
miles go by. At the end of say, a half hour cruise, your 12V battery
might be into the 11.5V range...a good 3 volts less than where it should
be for bright headlights.
2. Voltage. a cars 12v accessories actually run on 14.7v from the
alternator, rather than battery power. Is this really a big deal? If
so, add another 2v cell for the acc power.
First, 14.7 is high and not the norm. It's closer to 14.2-14.4 for most
vehicles. I like to run my 12V system at 14.5 volts. Yes, it 'is' a big
deal, for the already stated reasons. Yes, you could add another 2 volt
cell, but that's only practical if you don't use an off-the-shelf
12V battery and are already using individual 2V cells...most folks
don't. The cost of a custom 14V accessory battery based on individual
cells ganged together, might just cost more than a small 12V AGM style
lead acid battery backed by a DC-DC. Your proposed 14V battery would
still sag under varying loads. Turn on the headlights and they're
already down to 13.6V, but then turn on the heater fan or AC and the
headlights flicker and dim lower to 13.2V...drive a ways at night, and
soon your headlights are yellowing to the tune of 12.5V, a good 2 volts
less than they should be at.
3. Unequal Pack Draw. The battery used for acc runs down faster and
gets unequal. Is this really a big deal, don't the batteries equalize
upon charging anyway?
Yes, you would have unequal pack draw, and yes, you could rely on either
over-charging and excessive gassing of the rest of the pack's batteries
if using flooded cell batteries, or with sealed type batteries an
over-worked and heated up battery management system's regulators. You'd
still have the HV pack grounded to the chassis though, a very bad idea.
Perhaps the worse reason though, is that each time your EV's traction
motor and controller combo pulls hundreds of amps from the pack, your
entire 12V system would pulse, dim, and flicker for more of the
aforementioned miserable driving experience.
Driving an EV at night with an unassisted 12V battery sucks. Squinting
behind yellowing headlights is not fun....in a rain storm the wipers
that move s-l-o-w-l-y wipe and do a poor job are not cool....a defroster
fan that doesn't keep the windshield free of fog is funky. Driving at
night with a DC-DC keeping the system at 14+ volts however, is one of my
favorite times to be in my EV. In Blue Meanie, the Euro style Cibie' 7
inch round bulb and reflector headlights fitted with hi pro H4 bulbs and
backed by heavy gauge wire and relays, flood the road with crisp white
light on low beam, and on hi beam, send pencil beams far down the road.
The dash illuminates brightly, and the tunes are amped up accordingly.
At stoplights, everything stays bright and alert.
Thanks to help from Chris Brune, I recently updated White Zombie with a
40 amp DC-DC converter. Yes, the first version failed, but the unit is
back in operation again. We're hoping it was just a fluke with the first
Vicor module that blew, as it failed under a moderate load and it had
not yet even seen a high voltage charging potential, so it was well
within its SOA. With a DC-DC that can handle this car's wildly swinging
pack (low of 180V at 1000 amps draws, an average of 370-380V under
cruise, to a high of 445V at the end of charge), we went from hoping we
made it home from the track before we lost 12V power, to worry free
nighttime driving. The Bosch headlight inserts are now making white
light that really light up the road. Chris has changed the settings on
this replacement unit to my preference of a 13.2V float output and a
stout 14.55V key-switch-on mode. Thanks Chris, for the support and help.
See Ya.......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Randy at www.canev.com has specially-made boxes for Geo Metros that put 7
Group-31 batteries under the rear seat and 5 under the hood. Rear seat
remains usable.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jmygann
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 1:08 PM
To: Mike Chancey
Subject: Re: 72 Volt conversion idea
Great idea ...
I am looking for a 4 door - 95 or newer Geo metro , 5 speed
Where to put the batteries and 4 people ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> This recent discussion of lower voltage EVs got me thinking. I
have
> seen a lot of conversions where the approach seemed to be, load it
> will all the batteries it will hold, then add a few more, then put
in
> a big enough motor and controller to make it still keep up with
> traffic. The lead sled approach if you will. Having owned a
couple
> of Solectria Forces, I really appreciated their overall
> approach. The key to it I feel may not be so much the AC drive
> system, but the light weight and balance of the overall
> conversion. So, what if one made a lower voltage EV in the image
of
> a Force, with roughly the same weight in batteries and the same
power
> output from the controller. Shouldn't the overall weight and
> performance be similar?
>
> The Force has 13 8G27 gell-cell batteries, 63 pounds each, total
819
> pounds. If we used 12 Trojan T-105 flooded-batteries at 62 pounds
> each the total would be 744 pounds. Close enough for general
> purposes, and an inexpensive decent forgiving battery.
>
> The Force uses an AC drive capable of a max of 250 Amps. In
theory
> that is 250 Amps * 156 Volts = 39 KW, though they rate it at only
20KW.
>
> If we used an Alltrax 72 Volt 450 amp controller, then your
looking
> at 450 Amps * 72 Volts = 32.4 KW. This probably would be capable
of
> more power than the Force system, though you could turn it down if
you wished.
>
> For a drive motor, how about a 6.7" ADV to save some weight and
some
> dollars? When you add the flexibility permitted by keeping the
donor
> transmission, this should be sufficient
>
> Maybe a Geo donor to really match up with the Force, or something
> similar and I would suspect you should end up with an EV capable
of
> covering most folks commuting needs without spending a lot of
money
> and still get good serviceability.
>
> Not a pavement shredding monster by any means, just a decent
simple
> beginner EV. So, what do you think?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tesla is getting some more press....
http://www.electronicdesign.com/Articles/ArticleID/13201/13201.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW, I've noticed that my current draw as I corner is
much higher than on a straight. The point is that I
coast around curves, and accelerate on the straight,
hence (hopefully) saving a little bit of kWh.
peace,
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey all
>
> There's been a lot of discussion about driving
> speeds of late, so I thought I'd chime in here.
> First off I live in what I call the 45 MPH State
> where if it isn't icy in the winter there are far to
> many motorhomes and camp trailers being hauled, all
> going 45. I'm a point "A" to point "B" driver and
> rarely if EVer drive just to drive. My car is just
> another tool I use to make life easier and quicker.
> Regardless of whether you admit it or not, time "is"
> money so to speak and I wonder if any of you slow
> guys consider this into your equations?
>
> As I read a lot of these type of posts I think to
> myself, Haven't these people ever heard of
> grid-lock?
> Just the other day there was a guy in the front at
> a red light with 20 cars behind him, he took off so
> slow that a guy had time to turn left in front of
> him, thats just not right! Yep you guessed it like
> 4 cars made the light! That's out of about 20 to 30
> that are waiting their turn. Now I live in a town
> of only about 20K people and the green light to car
> ratio is a joke!
>
> Oregon is also the state where drivers don't care
> what's behind them, and after they've pulled out in
> front of you going below the speed limit, you are
> now behind them, lmao! As far as speeds and driving
> are concerned if I drive fast I do not impede you,
> but a slow driver does effect everyone behind them
> that wants to drive faster. Before the hate mail
> comes first I have a perfect driving record and
> second I'm not talking about doing 100MPH either!
>
> Having built 15,000 electric motors in 25 years
> I've done more than most to reduce gas usage and
> emmissions maybe more than this whole group put
> together so I've done my bit for King and Counrty!
> So if you see the Hi-Torque truck riding your arse
> all I ask is you get the heck out of my way! My
> question to you all is while you are saving those
> watts has anyone calculated the wasted energy being
> used by the 20 or so people left standing at the
> light as you egg peddle on through, not just in gas
> but in time? There should be a happy medium for
> when traffic is thick.
> Let the hate mail begin, hehe.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make
> PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got the PFC-30 installed Friday night (woo-hoo!) and did the first charge
on my ThunderSky cells this weekend. This was just a balancing charge to
get all the cells to an even 4.25V. Most of the 35 cells already clocked in
at around 4.05V, but I had 2 cells that started out at 3.83V. What I
learned was that it takes a long, long--can we say LONG!--time to get from
3.83V to 4.25V when you're traveling there at 2A.
I charged the pack at 6A until the first regulator turned on, indicating
that that cell was at 4.25V. I then turned the current down to 5A, and
waited for the regulator to come on again, repeat, repeat, repeat, until I
got down to 2A with the regulator on. Then I let the current stay at 2A and
watched over the course of two days as one after another, the regulators on
various cells turned on, holding their voltages to 4.25V.
Unfortunately, after 20 hours of charging, the lowest two cells had come up
to only 3.98V. At this rate, it's going to take me another week of evening
and weekend charges to get those two low cells to catch up.
Can anyone out there recommend a 1-cell isolated lithium charger that can
charge at 6A or better to help me speed up the process?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, I'll add to the fray. I live in CT now but have also lived in Denver and
the Boston area. CT
is a little hectic, but there's always room on the right to go at your own
pace. And I freely
support the notion that everyone should go at their own pace (just not in front
of me.) Drive the
way you are safe and comfortable and don't worry about the extreemists. And I
emphasize the word
"safe." Hey, Bob Rice is still alive, and the only time he shreds tires is in a
parking lot with
lot's of witnesses.
But I must add that there are times where you just won't survive with subpar
(below average ICE?)
performance. When I lived in Medford, MA, getting through the backroads to the
highway was an
experience. Most of the roads date back to the horse and buggy days (or
earlier) and they have a
lot of rotaries sprinkled liberally across the landscape. Four or five roads
converging with no
stop lights, yield signs, or even an island in the middle. These rotaries
epitomize the
expression "He who hestiates is lost." People move through them so fast they
create their own
little weather vortex. Nothing worse than being stuck behind a "cautious"
driver trying to find an
open slot. There are no on ramps, no time to get up to speed. It's all or
nothing. If you can't
handle it, stay off the road during the daily commute. It's not just a matter
of people honking at
you, sooner or later you'll end up with a car up your butt and you'll be
looking for your next
vehicle. It's been a few years since I lived there, so maybe the congestion and
gridlock have
slowed things down to a safer pace, but...
Dave Cover
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey all
>
> There's been a lot of discussion about driving speeds of late, so I thought
> I'd chime in here.
> First off I live in what I call the 45 MPH State where if it isn't icy in
> the winter there are
> far to many motorhomes and camp trailers being hauled, all going 45. I'm a
> point "A" to point
> "B" driver and rarely if EVer drive just to drive. My car is just another
> tool I use to make
> life easier and quicker. Regardless of whether you admit it or not, time
> "is" money so to speak
> and I wonder if any of you slow guys consider this into your equations?
>
> As I read a lot of these type of posts I think to myself, Haven't these
> people ever heard of
> grid-lock?
> Just the other day there was a guy in the front at a red light with 20 cars
> behind him, he
> took off so slow that a guy had time to turn left in front of him, thats just
> not right! Yep
> you guessed it like 4 cars made the light! That's out of about 20 to 30 that
> are waiting their
> turn. Now I live in a town of only about 20K people and the green light to
> car ratio is a joke!
>
> Oregon is also the state where drivers don't care what's behind them, and
> after they've pulled
> out in front of you going below the speed limit, you are now behind them,
> lmao! As far as
> speeds and driving are concerned if I drive fast I do not impede you, but a
> slow driver does
> effect everyone behind them that wants to drive faster. Before the hate mail
> comes first I have
> a perfect driving record and second I'm not talking about doing 100MPH
> either!
>
> Having built 15,000 electric motors in 25 years I've done more than most to
> reduce gas usage
> and emmissions maybe more than this whole group put together so I've done my
> bit for King and
> Counrty! So if you see the Hi-Torque truck riding your arse all I ask is you
> get the heck out
> of my way! My question to you all is while you are saving those watts has
> anyone calculated the
> wasted energy being used by the 20 or so people left standing at the light as
> you egg peddle on
> through, not just in gas but in time? There should be a happy medium for
> when traffic is thick.
> Let the hate mail begin, hehe.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
> starting at 1¢/min.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
eCobra won't be @ NEDRA Late Night this weekend, but I will be.
Still waiting for backordered parts, arg!!! Anyway I hope to meet a lot of
you guys there. I'll be wearing the "I'm the guy building the electric
Cobra" t-shirts. Email me if you'd like to get together.
KD
<http://ssinc.us/kitcar/index.htm> http://ssinc.us/kitcar/index.htm
Building an electric replica of Shelby's 65 Daytona Coupe (TM's)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Taps from any hardware store are carbon. They are soft. Especially if
you do them by hand in an awkward position like you have to do, they
will break. Most of the problem you hare having is not having the tap
handle supported. That's assuming you are using a tap handle and not a
wrench to turn the tap.
When I use to regularly power tap .290" thick titanium for my bot, I
used gun taps from McMaster. $5 -7$ each. They have still never worn
out. I can look at them and get you a part number if you want. You
will need a bottoming tap I suspect.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Note for the record: Home Depot does not sell tools, they sell problems.
>
> The POS 4/40 thread taps that HD sells basically break off in the
holes.
> Which of course renders the hole worthless. Same with their garbage
> quality bolts that twist off in holes.
>
> On the other hand, sears Craftsman drills will drill through a
> "hardened" (ie butter) tap from Home Depot. Live and learn.
>
> While trying to center the mounting plate I made the mistake of
drilling
> out the holes that were used for the old sensor on the motor. I now
> can't use them with a 4/40 bolt anymore. Anyone have any ideas on
how to
> make them work again without going to 6/32 size?
>
> Anyway I mounted the plate, then tried it out. Big grinding, turns out
> my wonderful motor has a bearing end that is sticking out into the
> encoder space. So when you mount the encoder with the ears, it bends
and
> makes a mess. Pulled it, put washers under bolt, put it back together.
> Truck acts as if there is no sensor.
>
> AAARRRGGGH!!!!!!
>
> Broke the sender taking it off the truck. I don't know if it was
> defective, wired wrong or what. But it's *REALLY* annoying to blow yet
> another 8 hours on this damn truck.
>
> Any ideas? Anyone in MD have a whole motor with an encoder on the end;
> I'm ready to rip this whole motor out.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
