EV Digest 5792
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: I don't need a dc-dc converter
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV List Moderation (was : A123 pack configuration in KillaCycle)
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NEDRA News: Late Night Nationals, NEDRA Awards and RPM Tradeshow
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) FYI: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) 18650 specs question...
by "Joe Plumer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: 18650 specs question...
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Optical encoders for "throttle" (was RE: A note on potentiometers)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Freedom EV update
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Heater Core Replacement
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: NEDRA News: Late Night Nationals
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: NEDRA News: Late Night Nationals
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 23, 2006, at 9:51 PM, Mike Willmon wrote:
So whats the loss in range of draggin' around the original alternator
off the motor tail shaft? Can't you also get one with an
electric clutch (like on A/C compressors) that you could switch in IF
your SLI battery went low? This might fit more on the lower
cost, easy, but less efficient model.
This will work. Your 12v system will drop to whatever the battery can
provide when you stop. The range hit would be worse than using a DC>DC
converter as ICE alternators are not generally designed for good
efficiency (mostly for cheap to build.) Its not a great answer but when
I went looking for a suitable motor for my EV Buggy I was planning to
do that if I ended up with a tailshaft.
It turns out Roderick pointed toward a Prestolite motor with a really
nice end bell (radial fins and blocks - and never drilled for attaching
to something.) So I went the "best" route (IMHO) and used an older Todd
AC>DC converter (as a DC>DC) and completely tossed the 12v system
battery. (Note: you can only do this if your DC>DC can handle your
total 12v system load and if you can get away a complete shutdown if it
fails.)
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm... Two thoughts:
1) I *never* see anything after the warning block. I use gmail. Operator
error?
2) If there is EVer any interest or need to move to another list, I'd be
happy to host it. I can set up mailman or any of a number of other list
server types on one of my servers....
Matt
On 8/23/06, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
BTW : If you see the little warning block stateing that the "message was
truncated" and you are in digest mode, Although it refers only to the
offending email, Some email clients don't display anything after it or
some arbitrary chunk after it. I had to view source to see the rest once
or twice. This has either gone away or I changed something in my setup
and for me it is a non-issue, but you may want to "view source"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I admire all your efforts and GREAT posts John.I have never seen a ice Datsun
as fast as your ev Datsun is on the drag strip.You seem to be the quickest car
on the track most nights,I have never heard you losing a race.As you know I
am building a 1987 S10 pickup with a welding bed and on board welder.It will be
a daily street driven service truck having a single series motor (less mass
than your twin)It will be much heavier than your quick Datsun,with much less
areo dynamics a smaller less powerful hawker genis 26ah battery pack and a
single Z2khv.It also will be NHRA certified to run 10.0,but I am sure it wont
come
close.Do you think we could run each other soonnnnnn HEADS UP? Dennis
Berube meet you half way by the end of the year!!!
Hey Dennis, all
I don't know about the rest of Team Plasmaboy but I'd be willing to haul WZ
down for a little dual in the desert so to speak, as long as workload permits
my time off. Maybe I can get Rod to throw me his Mazda maniacs motors for a
threesome, hehehe. Hell I'll even spot you a no motor peeking promise if you
needed it 8^ o
Anyway I'm there, say when! 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Chip
WOW the banner and fliers look great! I wanted to give you some recognition
for all the effort you did to make this a reality for NEDRA. Just to bad you
can't be here to see the fruits of that effort. Anyway I just had to give you
a shout out for a job well done. I'm sure that as we're playing, you'll be
getting caught up with stuff you put off to get this done 8^P Anyway thanks
for the kind words, I'll be sure to grab as many pics as I can to post at the
site!
I'm outta here first this in the morning 8^ )
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My local track officials have stated (unofficially) that I can run my jr
against the ice jr's. IF, I ever get it finished. too many pokers.....
--
joe >>
The only problem Joe Ev juniors cannot compete against the ice juniors nedra
set it up that way. D BERUBE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As Dennis Berube says: "the proof is in the time slips". This saves a great
deal of gasoline or diesel transporting a vehicle. You can get a time slip
even when bracket racing.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
I admire all your efforts and GREAT posts John.I have never seen a ice
Datsun
as fast as your ev Datsun is on the dragstrip.You seem to be the quickest
car
on the track most nights,I have never heard you losing a race.As you know
I
am building a 1987 S10 pickup with a welding bed and on board welder.It
will be
a daily street drIven service truck having a single series motor (less
mass
than your twin)It will be much heavier than your quick Datsun,with much
less
areo dynamics a smaller less powerful hawker genis 26ah battery pack and a
single Z2khv.It also will be NHRA certified to run 10.0,but I am sure it
wont come
close.Do you think we could run each other soonnnnnn HEADS UP? Dennis
Berube meet you half way by the end of the year!!!
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone cut the top off of dead batteries, removed the plates,
dumped out the sludge, and then reassembled, resealed, and refilled
the battery? Seems floodeds could last a long time if the plates are
still good?
http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/electrolyte.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a question about the specs for the 18650's. The specs say:
Size: 18650 (Cylindrical)
Capacity: 2400 mAh
Chemistry: Lithium Ion (Li-Ion)
Max Charging current: 1C (2.4A)
Max Discharging current: 2.5C (5A)
Charge Current: 1150 mA Voltage: 4.2v End Current: 50 mA
Discharge Current: 460 mA End Voltage: 3.0V
Voltage: 3.6V
Peak Voltage: 4.2V
I take it that the capacity is the C1 rate and not the C20 rate. Is that
right?
Thanks.
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Spaces is here! ItÂ’s easy to create your own personal Web site.
http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't imagine you holding your tongue at all John. You're right
though, it's better to stay out of bracket racing, it's too complicated :)
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello to All,
>
> I usually hold my tongue when Dennis beats this drum, this time, I
cannot.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >Its too bad that other EVs up there in the
> >Northwest and around the country do not take advantage of racing
the ice cars(test
> >lane is NOT racing).
> >
>
> Actually, it's too bad Dennis can't just congratulate us on our
years of
> hard work at changing the public's perception that EVs are slow, dull,
> and boring and stop with his dissing our 'heads up' racing style.
>
> Trust me Dennis, when folks see White Zombie line up next to a new
> Vette, see us both get the same exact light (not the staggered light of
> 'bracket racing' that tries to level the playing field) then see the
> electric car run off from the Vette and beat it fair and square,
> everyone in the stands, everyone behind the burnout pits, and everyone
> behind the fence clinching the rail, calls this racing! They never
> forget what they witnessed...nor does the guy in the Vette! Heads up
> style drag racing at the track is the closest thing to the real deal of
> illegal street racing as one can get! The whole reason the NHRA came
> into being, was to make a place where drag racers could safely duke it
> out with 'the guy in the other lane'. Most racing fans aren't like
> Dennis, where showing off how good 'you' are is the goal...they want to
> see how good the 'cars' are. Bracket racing focuses on the driver, not
> the car. Heads up racing focuses on the car, not the driver.
>
> >NHRA and Summit racing offer great programs in all classes
> >to as slow as 21 seconds in the qt.mile.
> >
>
> Yes, in bracket racing even a slug of a car like a 20 second automatic
> VW van can actually win against hot Mustangs and powerful Vipers.
> Bracket racing is for the 'driver', and if he or she is skilled enough,
> cagey enough, and gutsy enough, with the staggered launch tree giving a
> head start to the slow vehicle, they can actually beat the quicker more
> powerful car over the finish line. In the real world of heads up
racing,
> that would never happen and the quickest car wins, as it should be. If
> you're trying to promote EVs by demonstrating that they can not only
> keep up with, but beat gas cars in a side by side drag race, heads
up is
> what it's all about. If you're trying to promote yourself, then bracket
> racing is where you should be. I have done my share of it, but bracket
> racing is more about the 'driver's' reaction time, the 'driver's'
> techniques, the 'driver's' choices....perfect for a guy like Dennis
> where winning is everything and where being considered the best at what
> he does, is important. I (and my fellow NEDRA racers) prefer to advance
> the cause of the electric car, not to advance the notion that I'm the
> world's greatest racer.
>
> Dennis proclaims that that heads up style is not racing, and he
suggests
> that we only hang out in the test lanes. Funny then, all 8 lanes at PIR
> must be test lanes I guess. Each Friday and Saturday night they're jam
> packed with hot vehicles going head to head with each other.
> Everyone watching isn't screaming and cheering for their favorite
racing
> personality, they're screaming and cheering-on their favorite 'car'.
You
> hear comments like 'Watch this little electric car blow off that Road
> Runner.' That's what NEDRA racers want, folks noticing, commenting
> about, and ultimately being fans of the electric car.
>
> Where I do agree that having electrics do well in any venue of
racing is
> a good thing (including bracket racing), I feel that when it comes to
> convincing non-believers that an electric car can be quick and
powerful,
> there's nothing better than heads up style racing where you race what
> pulls up next to you...no timing tree computer evening the playing
> field, no tricks used like stomping the brake pedal at the end of the
> run (so you don't run too fast and break out), no tricks like
disguising
> body parts (so the racer next to you at the end thinks you're still
> behind them by a nose), none of this....just pure car vs car...pedal to
> the metal...which one outperforms the other....no BS!
>
> >Nedra worked hard to get their rules adopted by NHRA and I seem to
be the only one taking advantage of them(even though I am no longer a
nedra member).
> >
>
> We worked extremely hard to make it so that anyone with an EV can
run on
> an NHRA track, guys like Dennis!
>
> >There are thousands of dollars to be won in bracket racing every
weekend around the country.
> >
>
> Dennis, we don't do it for money, we do it to advance the electric car.
>
> >Bracket racers are 97% of the drag racers in the country.
> >
>
> Well of course this is the case! When 97% of the cars on the road are
> the same old thing, same Mustang, same Cuda, same Vette, same Camaro,
> same WRX....the only way to make the racing inviting to all these folks
> (stuck in using the same old technology) is to showcase the driver, not
> the car. I'd also like to advance the thought, that this same 97% of
all
> racers, don't care one bit about advancing a cause (what kind of cause
> is promoting the use of gas?), all they want, is to have fun and look
> good at winning. That's OK, but it's not what NEDRA racers are about. I
> guess NEDRA racers fall into that other 3%, the 3% that want to change
> the world.
>
> Dennis is to be congratulated on his incredible skills and his current
> points standing. His routine bracket racing against gas cars is good
for
> showing folks that an EV can be consistent. I do think though, that it
> was MUCH better for the EV cause when Dennis was into heads up style
> racing, trying to go as quickly as he could pushing his EV to that
world
> record of 8.8 seconds. Somehow, seeing the vehicle run 12 seconds these
> days isn't the same as when it scorched down the track in the 8s. I'll
> never forget that heads up drag race I witnessed between an alcohol
> injected V8 rail dragster and Dennis' electric rail...no staggered
tree,
> no handicaps, just two similar machines out on the strip, but with the
> controversial contrast of one being a conventional a gas powered
rail vs
> an electric powered one....the electric powered Current Eliminator won,
> the crowd went nuts, and the world still remembers!
>
> See Ya.......John Wayland
>
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 8/24/06 5:00:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
Date: 8/24/06 5:00:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Husted)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I admire all your efforts and GREAT posts John.I have never seen a ice
Datsun
as fast as your ev Datsun is on the drag strip.You seem to be the quickest
car
on the track most nights,I have never heard you losing a race.As you know I
am building a 1987 S10 pickup with a welding bed and on board welder.It will
be
a daily street driven service truck having a single series motor (less mass
than your twin)It will be much heavier than your quick Datsun,with much less
areo dynamics a smaller less powerful hawker genis 26ah battery pack and a
single Z2khv.It also will be NHRA certified to run 10.0,but I am sure it
wont come
close.Do you think we could run each other soonnnnnn HEADS UP? Dennis
Berube meet you half way by the end of the year!!!
Hey Dennis, all
I don't know about the rest of Team Plasmaboy but I'd be willing to haul
WZ down for a little dual in the desert so to speak, as long as workload
permits my time off. Maybe I can get Rod to throw me his Mazda maniacs motors
for a
threesome, hehehe. Hell I'll even spot you a no motor peeking promise if you
needed it 8^ o
Anyway I'm there, say when! 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric >>
Jim,I only have 1 small seies motor in a lot heavier truck he he so talk John
into it and maybe get the ac boys intrested too.A good old Match race
cooking!! I wont even have a delay
box
hooked up to help even the field. DB
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 8/24/06 5:21:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
Date: 8/24/06 5:21:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roderick Wilde)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
As Dennis Berube says: "the proof is in the time slips". This saves a great
deal of gasoline or diesel transporting a vehicle. You can get a time slip
even when bracket racing.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com >>
Rod as in PRO NHRA racing the reaction time does count Its 1st to the finish
line!!! DB
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I have a question about the specs for the 18650's. The specs say:
>
> Size: 18650 (Cylindrical)
> Capacity: 2400 mAh
> Chemistry: Lithium Ion (Li-Ion)
> Max Charging current: 1C (2.4A)
> Max Discharging current: 2.5C (5A)
> Charge Current: 1150 mA Voltage: 4.2v End Current: 50 mA
> Discharge Current: 460 mA End Voltage: 3.0V
> Voltage: 3.6V
> Peak Voltage: 4.2V
>
> I take it that the capacity is the C1 rate and not the C20 rate. Is
that
> right?
>
I don't think lithiums have a Peukert's factor, which varies the
capacity based on discharge rate.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
> You can do it with a disk that's variably tinted around
> its circumference, paired with a CDS cell, but getting the
> resistance right (especially the low resistance) is difficult.
This isn't all that difficult. You can buy an opto-interrupter module
for less than $1. It consists of an LED and a phototransistor, with
about a 1/8" wide air gap between them.
Get two pieces of polarized plastic, such as the lenses from a cheap
pair of polarized sunglasses. Glue a piece of one in the gap. Mount the
other piece on a shaft (such as the shaft of a bad pot from a Curtis
potbox :-)
Now, as the movable lens rotates, the pair of plastic lenses goes from
transparent to opaque. Power the LED (thru a resistor). You will get a
nice, smooth change in the resistance of the phototransistor, without it
being bothered by dust or scratches on the lenses.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fifty or so years ago auto batteries could be disassembled and
reassembled. The cells were held in place and sealed with tar.
The tar could be melted and scooped out and the cells lifted out
of the case. After repairs were made, melted tar could be poured
to close and reseal the battery. There were battery shops where
one could take a dead or failing battery for repair or exchange it
for a repaired one.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: FYI: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
Has anyone cut the top off of dead batteries, removed the plates,
dumped out the sludge, and then reassembled, resealed, and refilled
the battery? Seems floodeds could last a long time if the plates are
still good?
http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/electrolyte.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom wrote:
Fifty or so years ago
I was just thinking that if someone invested in a really nice set of
Trojan batteries for example; it would be nice to be able to maintain
them(and make them last for virtually ever). Or do the plates degrade
too bad? If one could buy or make new plates... Maybe a market for
rebuild-able batteries?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would not suggest doing it with out alot of research. EPA , Federal, and
State Enviroment agencies might jump on you for Safety, Hazzardous waste,
ETC.
When I was young I remember just digging a hole and dumping the oil-battery-old
radiator fluid. Now a days I had an EPA inspector knocking on my neighbors
house because some one reported a radiator leak. Another neighbor just got
tagged for a pretty big oil leak. Think his oil collection pan split when he
moved it from under the car. Anyway this is just a warning check it out
throughly before doing it.
Tom Shay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Fifty or so years ago auto batteries could
be disassembled and
reassembled. The cells were held in place and sealed with tar.
The tar could be melted and scooped out and the cells lifted out
of the case. After repairs were made, melted tar could be poured
to close and reseal the battery. There were battery shops where
one could take a dead or failing battery for repair or exchange it
for a repaired one.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts"
To: "EVDL"
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: FYI: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
> Has anyone cut the top off of dead batteries, removed the plates,
> dumped out the sludge, and then reassembled, resealed, and refilled
> the battery? Seems floodeds could last a long time if the plates are
> still good?
>
> http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/electrolyte.php
>
>
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small
Business.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a common practice in single two volt cells that have a removable
top. The tops are seal with a butyl cauking compound.
To remove the top from the post, a plug cutter, about the same type is use
for making wood plugs, but the cutting blades are shape a little different.
You can make this type of cutter from a wood plug cutter.
These cells are normally link together with a lead buss bar which you have
to drill the center of the battery post, which removes the links but leaves
the battery post in tack except it has a pilot drill hole in the center of
the post. Something like a hole saw does.
Before you begin, you should leave the battery at rest for at least 24 hours
after it is charge of used.
Next, have a room with a ceiling ventilation of at least 1500 CFM 18 inch
fan at a speed of 1750 RPM.
Have the floor and tables cover with rubber mats.
Have those large glass containers in at least 5 gallon sizes, better to be
larger.
Have a set of acid proof rubber aprion, rubber gloves and face shield.
One container is fill with distill water, another with distill water in a
solution of baking soda and another with baking soda which is use diluting
the working surfaces that you laid the battery grids on.
Then a enamel sink with running water. You could use a stainless steel
sinks, but the fittings will be eaten away very quickly.
A acid proof cleaning tank, that can re-circulate and filter the cleaning
solution which is also distill water.
Next, measure the battery voltage and record it. Also record the the
specific gravity of the electrolyte you take out.
Lets say the electrolyte reading is 1.200 sg or the battery is about half
discharge, meaning the negative plates are sulfated ( the SO4 from the H2O +
H2S04 electrolyte)
If you install 1.300 sg in this cell that had 1.200 sg which is 50% DOD and
you charge it, you will raise the 1.300 to about 1.375 instead of 1.275 for
a full charge.
ALWAYS INSTALL THE SAME SPECIFIC GRAVITY OF THE ELECTROLYTE THAT YOU REMOVE.
If you want to put in new electrolyte into the cell, then charge that cell
to the same reading of the new electrolyte.
Next, find out what size and type of battery separators are used, have new
separators ready to used.
After you hole saw the post with the plug cutter, then you then cut the
butyl rubber compound with a hot knife, sometimes a high performance heat
gun with a narrow tip will work.
Now you pull the cell out of it case and place the cell into the distill
water container. Some containers have a viabrator unit on them for better
cleaning or containers can be place on a viabrator table.
Next, remove the cell from the cleaning tank and place it vertical in the
circulation cleaning tank, that has a overhead water flow right on the cell
grids. The cell is held in place with a plastic holding jig.
You will note that battery separators are made from porous plastic. Take a
new separators and insert it in the same place that the old separators is,
but only about 1/4 inch. Now pull the old separators out and push in the new
separators, while the water is flowing over this cell.
Pulling out the old separators and install a new one in this manner,
prevents the positive and negative grids from touching each other.
You may note that there is a lot of lost grid material (paste) that came out
when you pull the old separators out. This is where the overhead flow spray
on the grid is use to flush out this material that the first washing did not
get.
Lets say the cell had a short across two of the adjacent cells which made a
hole in the separators, and it discharge this cell down to a specific
gravity reading of 1.100 sg. Then you cannot put in new 1.275 electrolyte
in.
You then either save the old electrolyte and filter it. Paint filter work
good for this. Place this cell into a open glass container, normally call
battery jars, and charge it to 1.275 sg. Then remove it from the battery
jar and clean the cell again.
DO NOT LET THE BATTERY GRIDS EXPOSE TO THE AIR FOR OVER A MINUTE AS IT WILL
START TO SULFATED.
If the pasted material in the grids are half gone, normally the top portion
will go first, because it is closer to the top tie bars in a standard
battery, than discard that cell.
In a industrial cell, the bottoms are also tie together and have a platform
for the grids to rest on, instead of just hanging from the top tie bars.
This type of grid connection provides a more even current flow through out
the whole area of the battery grid.
Next- reinstall the cell back into a clean cell container and fill with new
1.275 sg electrolyte. Install the cell butyl caulking sealant to about 1/8
inch from the top of the case. Finish the last 1/8 inch with a neoprene
type of caulking or even clear Lexon will work. This covers the stick butyl
which is hard to clean if not cover.
You will note that the cell post comes up through the holes in the top and
there is a lead ring in-bedded into the plastic top. You then use a long
lead pencil torch to seal the post to this ring.
Now you are ready to melt in a new battery post into this cell. Place
layers of wet paper towels over the cells tops leaving only the cell post
showing. Place on a battery post mold ( can get in different sizes
according to ampere rating) over the old cell post.
This lead welding is normally done on a steel welding table, where a holding
jig has a magnet base and a arm providing down ward pressure on the post
mold, so the molten lead does not leak out and burn a hole in the battery
top.
Using the same long lead pencil flame, you direct the flame into the post
mold down to the base of the old post, working it into a circular pattern
around the post. As soon as it begins to melt, then add battery lead, that
comes either in sticks or in a roll. I have used pure lead that comes in
1/8, 3/16, or 1/4 inch diameter rolls that I got from a sporting goods store
in the fishing section or in the gun section for lead making bullets.
Keep adding the lead to fill to the top of the post mold and than melt the
center of the post to a nice button top and than you are done.
Now you have over 100 more to do.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 6:25 PM
Subject: FYI: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
> Has anyone cut the top off of dead batteries, removed the plates,
> dumped out the sludge, and then reassembled, resealed, and refilled
> the battery? Seems floodeds could last a long time if the plates are
> still good?
>
> http://aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/electrolyte.php
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland wrote:
Now you have over 100 more to do.
Imagine if US Battery or Trojans had removable tops. Possible?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee and All,
Thanks for the kind words. It hasn't been easy
but it's slowly coming together.
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Freedom EV update
>jerryd wrote:
>> The Freedom all composite chassis has been completed, and
>> [am] now mating it to the body with Lee Hart's excellent
>help.
>
>Thanks, Jerry! It was great to see the Freedom at last, as
>well as all the other neat stuff at your place. Jerry is
>really "into" 3-wheelers -- there are *dozen* of them
>there. 3-wheel bikes, 3-wheel personal mobility scooters,
>3-wheel Honda "leaning" motorcycles, three versions of his
>3-wheel "Woody", and of course the Freedom itself.
I figured if I tried every type of 3wheeler, it was
the best way to learn about them. And at one time or
another, I commuted 12 miles 1 way to Tampa in most of them
for yrs . All electric except the tilting Honda Gyros, about
the best handling, braking bike around. Too bad they only go
37mph.
>
>The Freedom is what I came to see. The body looks very
>good. Streamlined, but all simple curves like the R.Q.
>Riley vehicles. It's bigger than I thought; about 5 feet
>wide, 5 feet high, and 11 feet long. The door and window
>openings haven't been cut out yet, so it is very rigid. It
>is two layers of fiberglass with a foam core. Feels like it
>weighs around 150 lbs.
125 lbs for the body and 190 for the chassis though
next time I'll use a different, much lighter core, cutting
25 or so lbs. So the next one should be about 290lbs for the
composite part.
It's now at the correct ground height with
windows/doors, ect, marked or cut out and it looks hot!! I
didn't realize how wide it looks until when it was down low.
About 4'7" high once at it's correct ride height.
Still taller than many cars as I believe to see and be seen
is a big safety factor.
>
>I helped him finish up the chassis. It too is all
>fiberglass, with a 3/4" foam core. Basically, it consists
>of two big boxes; the interior and the battery box. The
>battery box is about 32" x 30", right between the two front
>wheels, and big enough for twelve golf cart batteries. The
>interior is about 4' x 5', very roomy, and with a large
>shelf above the rear wheel for storage. It weighted about
>190 lbs. I'm eyeballing these dimensions; Jerry can provide
>the actual numbers.
You are very close, 33x32 for the one battery
compartment and 15x33+ for the other. Lots of battery
space!! I'm using a special, heavy core to increase crash
protection which should be about as good as a compact car.
The main reason for the special suspension system was
to give room for batteries.
>
>When I left, Jerry was trimming and fitting the body and
>chassis together. It should be an amazingly rigid structure
>when finished.
Especially for the weight, built aircraft style. But
that's the only way to get 60% battery weight for very long
range at a modest cost.
It was a bear to mate them, lifting it up,
cutting/sanding again and again until they finally fit. Now
I have some adjustments for the next one!! Hopefully this
weekend my help and I will epoxy them together.
So much work!!! I lost 10 lbs during the 10 days
around Lee's visit!! Best diet I've had in yrs. ;^D It took
me several days to recover afterward but did much better
than I could last yr.
Boy I'll be glad when all I have to do is pick up the
telephone, say build another one. I'll have 3 or 4
subcontractors being paid piece work to build them once the
first 2 are done to figure out how to do it ;^D
>
>I don't know what he's going to use for the front and rear
>suspension. The light weight, good streamlining, and huge
>battery box gives it the potential for very good range.
>Speed is going to depend on the motor and controller
>chosen.
Finally decided on copying the VW bug suspension style
but at 1/3 it's weight. Less weight, more range. The rear, a
simple single trailing arm.
According to Bryant's book, using slightly used T125's,
could go 3 hrs and 20 minutes at 50 mph. Much less in real
life but probably 100 mile working range on T105's.
Lee has talked me into just using one motor so give an
L91/D+D ES31 a try with an Alltrax 7245 controller. One A89
size motor worked in the Ewoody but it was 2/3's the weight
but was worked hard. Top speed on the flat with no wind
should be 80mph and meant to be driven at 70mph. 2 A89 size
motors will give me that as an option. I'll give each a try
and go from there. D+D are very good to work with, building,
winding whatever I need.
>
>> then it's on to the doors, probably the hardest thing in
>> it. But I think I have a good plan for them.
>
>Most homebuilt and kit cars have lousy doors that work
>poorly, leak and rattle. I'd suggest using doors off some
>existing car, with a new outer skin to conform to the body.
>This would provide all the hardware for the hinges, latches
>, locks, rolldown windows in one fully debugged package.
But finding one the right size isn't easy. You need
to start with a door and build a body to it. We are beyound
that stage now.
I think mine will be good doors as I know some
composite tricks to make them very strong. They use to make
them from chopper gun glass vs my aircraft tech!!!
>
>> Then move on to the windshield, dash, inside coverings,
>> brakes, etc. Then the electrical starts with the finish
>> finally in sight! Sounds so easy doesn't it!!
>
>He's come a long ways, but there's still a lot to do. The
>potential is there for the Freedom to be a Sparrow done
>right. But the outcome will depend on the details and
>tradeoffs. Do it cheap, or do it good? Spartan or luxury?
>Speed vs. range?
I'm using almost all new materials and a few rebuilt
ones. Looks are very important and will have a custom hotrod
interior person do it nicely. No reason not to as it's not
that expensive. I've got boat interior experince to so can
do that too. I'll probably do a clear coated wood dash,
other parts to add some class.
It will have nice, adjustable racing style seats and
A/C, Generator options. Anything electronic there is plenty
of space for the owner to have installed of their choice and
save money.
80 mph is good enough top speed for an Electric
though it can go much faster with more power. I'd encourage
them to gear it slower for more starting power if they don't
need 80mph, increasing range too.
It's what I think the Sparrow should have been and
what the EV-1 was in performance at least but at a
reasonable price by using standard, reliable parts and
racing boat, aircraft composite tech.
>
>> We should have AC'ed space in the next week or two which
>> will allow a much longer work day and night, out of the
>> Fla bugs, rain, humidity, speeding things up.
>
>That's for sure! The Florida summer climate was murder on a
>Minnesota boy like me! I don't see how Jerry gets
>*anything* done in that climate! An indoor air-conditioned
>shop looks mandatory to me. --
Looks like I'll have to build a shop but have a good
design to build in a few hrs cheaply as 1/2' ply has dropped
to $10/sheet so it won't cost much to do, about $300 which
is less than 1 months rent here. And I have 800+ feet of
2x4's, 2x6's. Then later move it to the factory space as a
production building and add on to it.
Best way for a business to succeed is keep expenses
low and that I do well. It looks like I was right that I
could get started producing EV's for about $14k, with most
everything costed out!!
It doesn't cost that much to go into production so why
don't more of you try? There are plenty here to help you get
it right!! If it wasn't for them, I would have never got
near this far. And would be glad to help others start EV
companies up. We are the only ones, EVer's who will make
EV's.
One way would be make a deal with a kitcar manufacture
for say 10, then convert them to EV at a nice profit done
right.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful,
>committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the
>only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead
>--
>Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Years ago it was somewhat common for EVers to drain the electrolyte from
tired batteries, rinse them thoroughly with clean water, and refill with new
electrolyte. This kept them going a while longer.
There were, and are, a couple of problems with this.
First, you're not replacing the lost active material, but you're usually
refilling
with electrolyte at 1.28 to 1.3 specific gravity. The result is that when the
battery is returned to service, the grids are overdischarged on each cycle.
Their depreciation is accelerated, so the battery fails again that much sooner.
Second, disposing of used electrolyte and rinse water, both contaminated
with lead sulfate and heavy metals, is a real problem. If you can find a
battery dealer who has a way to deal with this for you (perhaps for a fee) that
helps the situation. Just dumping it into the sewer is at least irresponsible,
and could subject you to criminal liability.
There's also a certain amount of personal risk when you perform this
operation. You want to be sure you have appropriate protective clothing and
lots of sodium bicarbonate on hand to neutralize the electrolyte in case of
any spills. Have adequate ventilation. Don't smoke or eat anything, and
when finished, shower and wash your clothes thoroughly.
With all the hassles and potential hazards, I really don't think it's worth it.
But if you try it, let us know how it works out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
> Roland wrote:
> > Now you have over 100 more to do.
>
> Imagine if US Battery or Trojans had removable tops. Possible?
>
> Yes, anything is possible. Many years ago they used to remove the battery
> tops by in-immersing them up to the top cover line in a solvent that
> dissolves the glue. In this type of battery, they do not remove the grids
> because the links are fused to the cell plastic dividers.
All they did was clean out the cells, filter the electrolyte and clean out
the cell and put new tops on them. Sold them for $10.00 and some people can
get another two years out of them.
Cannot do this method with the some of the new batteries, because they are
heat fused together.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well the sun is starting to go down here in Land of the Midnight Sun and I'm
getting ready to fit the ceramic heater elements into
the old heater core plenum. Does anyone have recommendations on what material
to use to house the ceramic elements. I don't
recall what past posters have said about the max temp the housing has to
withstand. I'm running a 192V pack and planned on
switching half the elements separately for medium and hi settings. It looks as
if using aluminum and shorting across the aluminum
fins wouldn't be a good idea.
I'll be putting .33mF and 39 ohm 5W resistors across the relay contacts for
snubbers per Ryan Bohm's nice writeup.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Echoing Jim Husted, John Wayland's and Roy LeMeur's enthusiasm for
the Late Night Nationals, I hope everyone can make it out. Jim will
have at least 3 of his new motors in vehicles racing and others on
hand for people to see up close.
Hey Chip,
Great job on the graphics! Very nice.
I've just finished bench testing a couple Z2K-EHV's so I'll be
bringing one of them (in the 914 of course) to the races Friday and
Saturday for the Late Night Nationals. This way some lucky customer
will get a truly "race tested" controller. ;)
I'm sure looking forward to it, it promises to be a fantastic weekend!
See you all there.
--
-Otmar-
914 EV, California Poppy,
http://evcl.com/914/
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Somebody puhleeeze get some video for those of us stuck at home waiting for the
posts to filter through the list. I'm sure it'll
be an EVentful showing. Of course I don't have to tell you to have fun. I sent
some family of some of my co-workers to watch you
guys waste your tires. They were amazed by the antics caught on tape of Zombie
v. Portland's finest. I wonder if some of those
cops will be around. They probably traded leave to pull duty there. I'd do
the same if I had some to trade.
Enjoy
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Otmar
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:15 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: NEDRA News: Late Night Nationals
>
>
> >Echoing Jim Husted, John Wayland's and Roy LeMeur's enthusiasm for
> >the Late Night Nationals, I hope everyone can make it out. Jim will
> >have at least 3 of his new motors in vehicles racing and others on
> >hand for people to see up close.
>
>
> Hey Chip,
> Great job on the graphics! Very nice.
>
> I've just finished bench testing a couple Z2K-EHV's so I'll be
> bringing one of them (in the 914 of course) to the races Friday and
> Saturday for the Late Night Nationals. This way some lucky customer
> will get a truly "race tested" controller. ;)
>
> I'm sure looking forward to it, it promises to be a fantastic weekend!
> See you all there.
> --
> -Otmar-
> 914 EV, California Poppy,
> http://evcl.com/914/
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/
> The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
> Now accepting resumes. Please see:
> http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
