EV Digest 5798
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Potbox alternative
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Inrush current limiting the IOTA DLS-55
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: kids EV
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: A note on potentiometers
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV List Moderation (was : A123 pack configuration in KillaCycle)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) VW Electric Beetle
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Heater Core Replacement
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: VW Electric Beetle
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: WANTED: Adapter for 87 Chevy S10 w/ warp 9
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Gel-Cell batteries in a DC Drive EV?
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Car and Driver Runs 12.3 @ 103 mph in White Zombie!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Gel-Cell batteries in a DC Drive EV?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: The next evolution of hobbyist EVs - there is money to be made
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: What's faster? 2, 9's, 11's, or 13's?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Converting a bug
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: What's faster? 2, 9's, 11's, or 13's?
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) reg weirdness
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Time for a reminder on fuel-door detection
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Heater Core Replacement
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Link to Battery Electrolyte Acid (Specific gravity 1.268)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Gel-Cell batteries in a DC Drive EV?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Balancing highly discharged batteries with Rudman regulators.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) EV grin is back!
by Seppo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Selling Vetter/Rifle fairings again.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) More high efficiency fairings
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) More Recumbent designs.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: EV grin is back!
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Time for a reminder on fuel-door detection
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Paul Compton wrote:
> If you've got a controller with a 0-5K, or 5-0K, or a potentiometer
> input, then take a look at
> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=4246718
> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=7006457
>
> Automotive rated conductive plastic pots with 'D' shaft activation
> and built in return springs. 5 million full cycles, 10 million
> 'dither' cycles.
Looks perfect, Paul! I hadn't seen these listed anywhere before. Thanks!
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Martin K wrote:
>
> What's a good inrush limiter? A resistor and shunting relay contact?
Yes, that works well. Even an NTC inrush limiter is fine if you short it
out with a relay or switch contact.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 23 Aug 2006 at 13:43, David Brandt wrote:
> An aside here - I've had a lot of fun jump-starting things from that little
> hawker while it was in the powerwheels. Talk about an EV grin! Just imagine
> the face of anyone watching!
When I had my Comuta-car, I used to go round the neighborhood starring dead
ICEs on subzero mornings. It was easy to get to the battery, and two of
those grunty golf car batteries and the 2/0 jumper cables did the trick
nicely.
It was a lot of fun. But yours sounds WAY better. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 23 Aug 2006 at 12:13, Eric Poulsen wrote:
> Often a shot of what used to be called "Color TV Tuner Cleaner"
> ... from Radio Shack would do the trick. It's essentially
> Dichloroflouroethane, mineral oil, and silicone lube.
I'm no expert, but my experience with this stuff has been mixed. Pots I
treated with Radio Shack sprays usually got noisy again rather quickly; I
think the oil attracts more dirt. Some of the sprays can even be
destructive. Many years ago, I even had one cheap plastic pot partly
dissolve from the solvent in one of these sprays (I think it was a GC brand
tuner cleaner spray).
The safest and most effective contact and pot cleaner I've found is Cramolin
Red. I believe this is now made by Caig, and is called Deoxit. You use
only a tiny amount, so a small bottle lasts for years (mine is 16 years
old). It doesn't seem to leave any kind of oily residue.
Of course there's still no substitute for starting with a good-quality pot.
A cheap one will be noisy almost from the start.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
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--- Begin Message ---
On 23 Aug 2006 at 12:33, MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> This happens often to me. If my post doesn't show up the next day I usually
> send it again. After the 2nd one shows up, the 1st one usually follows
> shortly.
Mike, thanks for posting this. If others have noted this phenomenon, please
contact me and point out the offending messages, if possible. I'll relay
the info to the SJSU support crew.
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don, you've got a nice webpage on the new beetle conversion.
I'm curious if you've had serious interest from those who've seen it
about purchasing or having one built for them?
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> Patrick Maston says he used a high temp RTV good to 400*F. Would
> this be sufficient an insulator to fill gaps around the ceramic
> element and to keep debris off the gap between the ends of each
> sub-element?
I don't know. I've never seen RTV used for physical mounting of
electrical parts that get hot. I see the special high temperature red
type of RTV used for sealing furnace pipes, but not as electrical
insulation, or to mechanically secure things.
> Certainly a 20 Amp fuse would prevent an arc over from becoming a
> fire producing short.
No, it wouldn't. Arcs do not necessarily draw high current! It is quite
easy to develop a continuous arc that draws low current as it is madly
burns away everything in the area!
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, Bill as I recall you have suggested doing 60 foot times.
This would be the easiest way to do the records. They could kick but
off the line but don't have to worry too much about going over the
max speed of 85 mph or ET. I would still break it down by age group
since kids from 8 to 18 can race and it gives more kids opportunities
to have a record.
I actually have Brent Singleton's time slips here from 2004 and he
has had some pretty impressive 60 foot times. He beat his gas
competitor in each of these races.
Race 1
RT .603
60 ft 1.957
1/8 8.233
mph 83.68
Race 2
RT .166
60 ft 2.115
1/8 8.318
mph 86.58
Race 3
RT .307
60 ft 1.969
1/8 8.260
mph 84.50
I also need to mention that Brian Humphries has been hard at work
with his Jr Dragster. Hopefully he will be able to get it to some
NEDRA events and we can get him to start filling out the blank space
in the records.
Chip
On Aug 26, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: August 26, 2006 2:48:04 PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
Several times in the past I have suggested that NEDRA should keep
records for best 60 foot times for Electric Jr Dragsters.
1) There is no NHRA restriction on 60 ft times for Jr Dragsters.
2) A low 60 ft time is difficult to get and requires a very good
set-up on the machine.
3) It is one of the more difficult parts of the race to do well, at
least technically.
4) EVs typically kick butt in 60 ft compared to ICEs, so the
numbers should be impressive.
5) A hard launch is the most fun part of the race.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jack, I have had a couple of offers to purchase and maybe one or two
offers to convert other vehicles, however I don't think any of them were
serious.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: August 26, 2006 1:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: VW Electric Beetle
Don, you've got a nice webpage on the new beetle conversion.
I'm curious if you've had serious interest from those who've seen it about
purchasing or having one built for them?
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It gives the kids a record to shoot for that has real meaning in drag
racing, but does not encourage them to break the NHRA rules.
Breaking it down by age group (lust like they do in Jr Dragster
racing) sounds like an excellent idea.
Perhaps, later on after the overall records have been set, you could
track the "Best of the Racing Season" so there would be something for
all the kids to shoot for (and get their turn for) each season.
Bill Dube'
At 03:02 PM 8/26/2006, you wrote:
Yes, Bill as I recall you have suggested doing 60 foot times.
This would be the easiest way to do the records. They could kick but
off the line but don't have to worry too much about going over the
max speed of 85 mph or ET. I would still break it down by age group
since kids from 8 to 18 can race and it gives more kids opportunities
to have a record.
I actually have Brent Singleton's time slips here from 2004 and he
has had some pretty impressive 60 foot times. He beat his gas
competitor in each of these races.
Race 1
RT .603
60 ft 1.957
1/8 8.233
mph 83.68
Race 2
RT .166
60 ft 2.115
1/8 8.318
mph 86.58
Race 3
RT .307
60 ft 1.969
1/8 8.260
mph 84.50
I also need to mention that Brian Humphries has been hard at work
with his Jr Dragster. Hopefully he will be able to get it to some
NEDRA events and we can get him to start filling out the blank space
in the records.
Chip
On Aug 26, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: August 26, 2006 2:48:04 PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
Several times in the past I have suggested that NEDRA should keep
records for best 60 foot times for Electric Jr Dragsters.
1) There is no NHRA restriction on 60 ft times for Jr Dragsters.
2) A low 60 ft time is difficult to get and requires a very good
set-up on the machine.
3) It is one of the more difficult parts of the race to do well, at
least technically.
4) EVs typically kick butt in 60 ft compared to ICEs, so the
numbers should be impressive.
5) A hard launch is the most fun part of the race.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a friend who has one, I'll ask him if he wants to get rid of it.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 3:36 PM
Subject: WANTED: Adapter for 87 Chevy S10 w/ warp 9
> My first conversion, which I am labeling "experimental" - 1987 Chevy S10 w/
> 2.5 liter 4 cyl engine and 4 spd transmission. Looking for adapter between
> clutch/tranny and Warp 9. Used would be great. Only spent $225 on the
> truck, so a used adapter would be perfect.....if none available, where is
> the best place to get a new one at a reasonable price. Also waiting on my
> Zilla controller, but then again, who isn't???.....
>
> Mike
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
I know the standard wisdom seems to be not to use gel-cell batteries
in most EVs, but seeing the success Solectria has with them, I have
to wonder if that is valid. In my case I had Deka 8G27 gels in both
my Forces, and they were quite effective. So what are the hazards of
running them in a DC drive car like my Civic? Both the Force and the
Civic are 156 Volts nominal and should pull about the same currents
on average. Max current on the Force was only 250 Amps, but while
the Auburn in the Civic is capable of 680 motor Amps in theory, I
have never seen more than about 300 Amps battery current on the
E-meter, and even then that was only for a few seconds. In addition,
I normally run the Auburn in Economy mode which limits motor current
to 340 Amps
Basically, I have had little success with my previous battery setups
on the Civic, and I was considering the implications of switching to
a group 31 size version of the Deka gel-cells. I really want at
least 40-50 Amp-hours of useable capacity, and at least 4 calendar
years or about 1500 cycles at about 30% discharge. Does this sound
like something they should be able to deliver?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Yes, it's crazy time here at the Wayland EV Juice bar... a hot 90+
degrees, people and EVs everywhere! A more detailed report will follow
after this weekend's behind me, but for now this update.
Tim warmed-up the Zombie with two 12 second runs, then it was Car and
Driver's Ted West's turn. The nervous journalist received last minute
instructions from Tim and I on the best launching techniques and what to
expect before he was strapped into the electric Datsun from Hell and
sent out to the track. First run...12.6 even after letting off the
throttle too early with the finish line still ahead of him. With his
head hanging in shame, he vowed not to repeat the error and delivered
smack-down 12.3 @ 103 mph second run. Third run 12.3 @ 102 mph. This
last run Ted lifted both front tires about 4 inches off the ground
immediately, so the front wheels were stationary and not rotating for
about 40 feet...a very cool looking power-launch!
Earlier this year, Car and Driver road tested a new 500+ hp V10 Dodge
Viper that turned a 12.5 ET, so it's now fairly official from the
magazine's perspective, that an electric street sedan runs a quicker 1/4
mile!
One additional stat...White Zombie ran 12's on all runs defeating every
gasser challenge of the night!
Gotta go...time to head to the track.
See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike, when I purchased my Deka gels, I spoke with the East Penn tech rep and
he said that the more often you pull large current (for a gel) such as
250-300 amps the shorter the life becomes. I do have an advantage that my
commuter has higher voltage, so I rarely, if ever pull over 200 amps.
Personally I really like the gel cells for a commuter application. It has
been about a year and a half without any problems or signs of reduced range.
On average over this period of time I use the car about 4 times a week,
about 40km per trip.
I do not have an active balancer, however I do check every couple of months,
they have been within 0.15 volts, so I do a little supplemental charging
here and there.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Chancey
Sent: August 26, 2006 5:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Gel-Cell batteries in a DC Drive EV?
Hi folks,
I know the standard wisdom seems to be not to use gel-cell batteries in most
EVs, but seeing the success Solectria has with them, I have to wonder if
that is valid. In my case I had Deka 8G27 gels in both my Forces, and they
were quite effective. So what are the hazards of running them in a DC drive
car like my Civic? Both the Force and the Civic are 156 Volts nominal and
should pull about the same currents on average. Max current on the Force
was only 250 Amps, but while the Auburn in the Civic is capable of 680 motor
Amps in theory, I have never seen more than about 300 Amps battery current
on the E-meter, and even then that was only for a few seconds. In addition,
I normally run the Auburn in Economy mode which limits motor current to 340
Amps
Basically, I have had little success with my previous battery setups on the
Civic, and I was considering the implications of switching to a group 31
size version of the Deka gel-cells. I really want at least 40-50 Amp-hours
of useable capacity, and at least 4 calendar years or about 1500 cycles at
about 30% discharge. Does this sound like something they should be able to
deliver?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org Join the EV List at:
http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme position.
(Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What I think placed after Don's questions. LR
> Granted these are not easy products, but I would like to point out a few
> things that do put this within the grasp of the entrepreneurial hobbyist:
>
> 1) Otmar is doing well with his DC Controllers - is an AC controller that
> much more complicated? (remember, I am naive about the internals of
> controllers)
AC is much more expensive for the power. Look at AC propulsion, Solectria
and Victors AC drives. Victors I think are the most thrifty but still
expensive.
> 2) For sure, there are no hobbyists building AC motors (or even DC ones),
> but I am sure Jim's chomping at the bit to give it a try. Can a quantity
> (say 30 per year) be made for $2000-$3000 each? Maybe the idea would be
to
> adapt, modify and or rewind existing motors for EV purpose.
Motors are cheap. In hobby class the ac aren't much cheaper than DC motors.
A good motor for a medium sized EV is 1500 dollars Why would I want to pay
more. BTW I find used motors from forks lifts. I got a bunch for free.
>
> 3) The idea behind the lithium battery module is to take advantage of the
> 18650 lithium cell and leverage existing BMS for a more convenient, ready
to
> use large EV purpose cell (maybe an 80Ah 12V battery). Is it that complex
> that money cannot be made from enthusiasts market similar to what Otmar
and
> Rich are doing?
I'd love to get my hands on some lithium and a spot welder
>
> 4) I know of several hobbyists who have designed and built BMSs that work
> well for lead acid, one of those is the "Lee Hart Battery Balancer". I
know
> a lot of work went into this and I am not trying to minimize the effort.
> Victor and John are working on something like this. Cannot one be designed
> and built for a larger scale system required by lithium?
In my opinion the BMS is a big problem with lithium. If something
offordable comes up that won't burn the house down I'm in.
> One advantage the hobbyist has is that generally they build something
> without keeping track of their time invested. There is also an
expectation
> that they would never be paid for all their R&D work, most likely only
> manufacturing costs and profit from there. I am sure if Otmar or Rich
added
> up all the time they put into their products, they would probably average
> out to 25 cents an hour. Maybe if they new this at the beginning, they
> would have never started.
I'm sure Otmar and Rich are paying the bills with their creations. I'm glad
they did what they did. I hope they are glad and not killing themselves. I
had a talk with Otmar a couple of years ago about the 18650. I have a
sneeking suspiction he's been thinking about it. I at least hope he has.
Otmar is a very savvy guy concerning electronics. He is in a small group of
talented designers that understand the need & might be able to make that
happen. Lawrnece Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Two Zillas are called a Quadzilla. Makes sense. If you double your voltage
you quadruple your horsepower. Lawrence Rhodes.....At least that's what
I've been told.........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Should be obtainable with a 96v system.& a minimum of an 8 inch ADC.
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/ Check out the EV tradin post for
components. You could also ask Jim H for recommendations on what will work
with the least modification from old fork lifts. I just BCCed him.
Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 5:54 AM
Subject: Converting a bug
> I'd like to convert a 65-79 bug and achieve the following:
>
> top speed - 50 MPH (even on slight incline which means on the flat more
like 65 MPH)
> acceleration - 0-40 MPH in 20 sec. Not super fast, but not dangerously
slow
> range - 21 miles to 80% DOD, average speed 35 MPH, some stop and go,
speeds up to 50 MPH, very slight grades in areas.
>
> Does anyone have a used motor / coupler / adapter ready to go for a bug
conversion that they are willing to part with. I'd be interested in:
> 8" ADC
> 9" ADC
> 36 - 48 V series or compound wound lift motor properly adapted
> 2CM77 or 2CM88 with adapter
> Why? That thing can put out 93 ft lb and is rated 24 kW for 5 min.
Not very good
> at all on efficiency, but it will move the car, and no one else
wants it.
> Used kaylor kit, series or compound wound motor (7 or 15 HP).
>
> I AM NOT interested in anything with a 400 A aircraft generator (shunt
wound only) because of the poor acceleration.
>
> Reply off line if you have some parts stashed away that you are willing
to part with.
>
> I want something complete - motor / coupler / adapter. I don't want to
make a 200 hour project out of putting the thing together. I want to be
able to bolt up the motor to the transaxle in less than 12 hours and be
ready to start the wiring abd battery installation.
>
> I already have the controller / pot box ... But, I'd be interested in
some used / surplus / excess battery interconnect cables if they are 2/0.
>
> Steve Powers
> Atlanta, GA
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking that dual Z2K's would = Quadzilla, as in 4K amps. Or four Z1K's
in a 1972 Datsun 1200 would give new meaning to
the term "four banger" :-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 5:29 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: What's faster? 2, 9's, 11's, or 13's?
>
>
> Two Zillas are called a Quadzilla. Makes sense. If you double your voltage
> you quadruple your horsepower. Lawrence Rhodes.....At least that's what
> I've been told.........
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Holy cascade reaction, batman!
I've got a few batteries in, with regs attached and adjusted. Today while
trying to fit yet another panel in (does this construction process ever end?!?)
I saw one of the regs turn on (green LED lit up). This was odd, as that
battery wasn't under charge. It wasn't just the setting, either. I tried
adjusting VR1, and it didn't shut off. I caught it early, as it was just
starting to get warm, so it really was on, and functioning. I disconnected
that reg. Now whenever I connect the battery, it turns on (green LED on,
heatsink warms up).
As far as I know, nothing fell on it - there wasn't anything in the vicinity,
and there is no obvious damage. I also checked it for moisture, and there was
none.
Any ideas what is going on? Recommendations?
David Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
I keep getting reminded that it was a good idea to install a sensor on
the fuel door to detect when it is open. I'd say at least a few times a
month, I hop in the EV and try to drive off with the charging plug still
connected. But it doesn't start thanks to the AC input option on the
Zilla Hairball and the Hall-effect sensor I installed on the fuel door.
For those of you working on conversions, don't skip this minor but
important detail. I've got the schematics and some pictures here:
http://www.evsource.com/conversion/electronics/fuel_door/fuel_door.php
The schematic images aren't that great. Let me know if you want part
numbers.
-Ryan
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Includes Zillas, WarP and Impulse Motors, and PFC Chargers
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
Certainly a 20 Amp fuse would prevent an arc over from becoming a
fire producing short.
No, it wouldn't. Arcs do not necessarily draw high current! It is quite
easy to develop a continuous arc that draws low current as it is madly
burns away everything in the area!
Case-in-point - my mothers vehicle had a damaged headlight connector.
The damage didn't altogether short the pins together, but it was enough
to slowly melt the connector into a ball of melted plastic. Eventually,
the metal terminals made contact and shorted out.
I've also heard of Anderson connectors getting road salt and grime in
them and causing a low current short between high-voltage lines.
Eventually, this can cause a fire.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Summer Special - Free or reduced shipping on all orders over $500!
Includes Zillas, WarP and Impulse Motors, and PFC Chargers
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 25 Aug 2006 at 3:46, Bob Rice wrote:
> Gotta do it outside and FLUSH acid
> and crud away, with a garden hose. You don't want to make a habit of doing
> this, for sure!Nor would the Environmental Pollution folks would want you,
> ether.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Not only do you not "want to make a
habit of doing this," you'll want to think twice, or thrice, about ever
doing it at all.
Heaven help the person who rinses out an old battery with a garden hose, and
later some family buys his house and builds their kid's sandbox right where
he dumped his battery waste! I'm not an attorney, but I think they can sue
you for carelessly contaminating your property, if it later harms someone
else. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that.
I don't mean to preach, just to provide some information; but this is a
matter which may be of some interest, even if you are just recycling your
used batteries and not trying to rejuvenate them yourself.
It doesn't seem to get much press these days, but I read about a dozen years
ago that there are entire neighborhoods and even cities in some developing
nations where lead levels in ground water and soil are several times the US
EPA limits, because of unregulated lead battery recycling operations. Some
batteries - surely not all, but apparently some - are sent to countries
where environmental and worker protection laws don't exist or aren't
enforced. Workers cut apart the old batteries with hand tools and their
bare hands, often dumping the electrolyte on the ground and/or rinsing the
reclaimed bits in the river. Then they take the lead home to their kids on
their clothes every evening.
I realize the organization responsible for this report is somewhat
controversial, but here's one report on this phenomenon :
http://www.things.org/~jym/greenpeace/myth-of-battery-recycling.html
I would be interested in more documentation that either supports or refutes
these contentions.
When choosing batteries certainly many people place a high priority on
price; but for some of us, how recycling is handled, and where recycled
components are purchased for new batteries, may be matters to consider
prioritizing when choosing a battery supplier.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Second run update:
Have gone through some sanding, smoothing a few edges of the boat, and
another coat of paint. Still have the super-slippery high gloss
clearcoat left to put on - should net me another knot or 2. Spent about
6 hours on the lake Friday, ran a good 5-6 miles from one end of this
2.5 mile lake and back on the 3 inch motor making 34lbs at the prop. The
110Ah flooded lead was predictable if heavy to load from the dock ;-)
One thing I noticed was that in the morning, the boat was very
responsive and peppy. It was priceless pulling along even to deep vee
fiberglass and metal boats with 10-20HP gas motors running at 1/3-1/2
throttle, buzzing and humming and chugging along at 5-7 knots. All the
while me and the Mrs waving from our dead silent boat with zero wake and
barely a ripple. A downside to this hull is that when it's moored along
side the dock, or just drifting with the motor off and anchor up, the
slightest bump or a decent breeze sends it off on it's way in a hurry -
LOL. There *are* a series of "runners" along the outside bottom spaced
6" apart that keep the boat nice and steady and pointed where you want
it when under power though.
Anyways, when the battery is fully charged, I can get 5-7 knots easy out
of the boat. But on the way back to the dock at the end of the day, the
motor was much less grunty and all I could get out of it was around 3
knots or less. It felt like the throttle was only at 50-60% or so, even
when "floored". I'm assuming this is from the lowered voltage since at
the time I had pulled around 35-40Ah out of the battery at a 22-26A rate
(it's rated for 75Ah at 25A, so that would be about 55% DOD). Combine
that with a bit of sag under load, and I guess you get to take a nap on
the way home...
Well this isn't cool, because the peak efficiency of that hull is at 4-8
knots. It would take only a little lees power at 3knots as 5knots. Kinda
a speed/power "shoulder" if you will. How do I keep the voltage at over
11? I was thinking perhaps swapping the group 27 110Ah (180 minutes @
25A) bat for two group 24 75Ah (120 minutes @ 25A) bats of the same make
in parallel. I would only be gaining 20 lbs of weight, but getting quite
a bit more Ah due to only pulling 12.5A out of each one. The main
thought is that I would have a higher voltage at the end of the day, so
no nap needed on the way back to the dock.
Would I truly be seeing only half the sag since the motor would be
seeing only half the battery resistance? Is sag under load only a
minuscule issue at these Amps? Would running the two bats in series
(24V) and using a 350W DC/DC converter give me plenty of pep at the end
of the day without too much of an efficiency penalty? And where would I
find a 350W 24V -> 12V DC converter for less then a bigger motor (3.5"
is ~$250) Or should I just get a bigger motor and run it at partial
power until the end of the day, since I don't need the 54lbs it would
spit out?
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--- Begin Message ---
The East Penn 8G range gel batteries are a high quality, close tolerance
battery. That helps.
Your drive is missing one feature which I suspect helps the Solectrias, and
that's regen. I think it really helps to charge the battery a little now
and then while driving. But you might try them. The group 31s should be OK
with a max of 300 amps.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Rudman regulator Regulator Mark I rev D isn't blinking but I only needed
one for my new Bladez scooter. I got it for a steal but the batteries read
5 & 3 volts. During charge one battery was up to 15v & the other 13.5 so
that won't do. I found an old reg at 12 v and hooked it up to the high
battery and now they are both at 14.48vdc. I've seen the Rudman do this
before but on big batteries it usually won't work and needs to be fixed. In
this case the led just dims and brightens and does the job. I'll check
later to see if it is overheating but I'm hoping to revive these batteries
because this scooter is almost new. Just another neglected EV battery pack
& another EV gotten for peanuts because a newbie gave up on electrics..
Anybody have a Bladez Seat for sale? Lawrence Rhodes.......
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--- Begin Message ---
I got this problem with the commutator of my Peugeot Partner Electric
in the spring, and the car has been standing still waiting for the
new motor and its installation. Last weekend I completed the motor
change and the car is on the road again.
Special thanks to Marc Boden for arranging the spare motor, and to
Jukka "'Lithium Boy" Järvinen for a parking place and valuable support!
Seppo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470MPG/high%20mileage%20fairing.html Looks
like Craig Vetter is selling his High mileage fairings again. He shows how
one is fitted over a Honda Heliz. I just sold my fairing and Lectra for
about what Craig is charging for just the Fairing. Using a gas bike the
mileage was at best 477mpg. I'm sure that would be a lot of range on an
electric. Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.suzukicycles.org/high_milage_suzuki.shtml
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--- Begin Message ---
http://members.core.com/~flyboy/bikes.html Now I know where my favorite
recumbent design comes from.
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--- Begin Message ---
Its good thatyou have the "grin " back Seppo. My own Citroen Berlingo (same
as partner) is also off the road for a couple of months now since the
controller board went bang. I am still trying to get a replacement at a
sensible cost.
It would be interesting to hear the process you went through to change the
motor. Me and another Berlingo owner in the UK are writing up various
procedures for changing out parts in these ev's so that we can post a guide
on the web for other owners. We have already done, battery packs, controller
and heater instructions and it would be nice to add some help for motor
removal.
John
www.bedfordev.flyer.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seppo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 9:18 AM
Subject: EV grin is back!
I got this problem with the commutator of my Peugeot Partner Electric in
the spring, and the car has been standing still waiting for the new motor
and its installation. Last weekend I completed the motor change and the
car is on the road again.
Special thanks to Marc Boden for arranging the spare motor, and to Jukka
"'Lithium Boy" Järvinen for a parking place and valuable support!
Seppo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 12:53 AM
Subject: Time for a reminder on fuel-door detection
> Hi everyone,
>
> I keep getting reminded that it was a good idea to install a sensor on
> the fuel door to detect when it is open. I'd say at least a few times a
> month, I hop in the EV and try to drive off with the charging plug still
> connected. But it doesn't start thanks to the AC input option on the
> Zilla Hairball and the Hall-effect sensor I installed on the fuel door.
> Hi Ryan an' EVerybody;
I had a setup like that on my first edition of the Rabbit, with a
contacter controller. It was easy to have a small AC relay to open the line
switch, so the car couldn't be driven. As it was a multicontact relay it
ALSO pulled the controller contacter relays into full series(Wide Open) to
charge it, the batterys, I mean. Of course with out the isolation feature,
the car, if left in gear would/could launch! Enbarrising in confined spaces.
BTW the early Lectric Leopards DID do this IF you didn't Switch things
MANUALLY Before plugging it in! I found THIS out plugging in at the RR shop,
where it wouldn't have done much damage? Like knocking over an EMD
F-40<g>!Fortunately I was in the drivers' seat when one of the guyz plugged
it in, still!
Swore THAT wouldn't happen on MY car! But ya gotta do a preflite
walk-around before launching! Wake up the sleeping(isn't that what they do
best?)Cats around the car, check for ANYthing else. Because an AC interlock
won't do squat if the OTHER end isn't plugged in! So ya need something on
the charge door, as Ryan sez! Be really safe!
My two watts worth
Bob
> For those of you working on conversions, don't skip this minor but
> important detail. I've got the schematics and some pictures here:
>
> http://www.evsource.com/conversion/electronics/fuel_door/fuel_door.php
>
> The schematic images aren't that great. Let me know if you want part
> numbers.
>
> -Ryan
> --
>
> - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
> Summer Special - Free or reduced shipping on all orders over $500!
> Includes Zillas, WarP and Impulse Motors, and PFC Chargers
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/06
>
>
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