EV Digest 5832
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: SMARTcar on eBay
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Another range question
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Another range question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) USE S10 Nicad layout
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: OT- LCD display
by "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: NmG dealership in Texas!
by Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: NmG dealership in Texas!
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) 12kW generator on Ebay
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Another range question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Soccer Mom Mobile
by "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Worm and Sector Steering
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Soccer Mom Mobile charset="iso-8859-1"
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Another range question
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Worm and Sector Steering
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Worm and Sector Steering
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Trike "motorcycle"
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Elektro Transporter on eBay, Forgetaboutit!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Worm and Sector Steering
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee
by "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Streamlining
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Batteries (8 volt vs 6 volt)- again / UCaps oops
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Creation of EVCC / $15K electric car dream oops
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Trike "motorcycle"
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Another 3 wheeler project?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_USE_S10_Nicad_layout?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_NmG_dealership_in_Texas!?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The sell, in Canada, for around $16K, if I hear right. Add 50% for the US.
We are all rich SOBs, right?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: SMARTcar on eBay
> On 5 Sep 2006 at 19:02, Death to All Spammers wrote:
>
> > The auction ended with the bid at $21.7K and not up to the reserve -
> > how much *is* a SMARTcar worth?!
>
> I'd say about $21,700. ;-)
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hesitate to set voltages in the standard.
Instead standardize a method of communicating the voltage,max current.
and charge/bms communication protocol
I like the concept of RFCs, request for comment. They are used in place
and have a path to ISO. As a request for comment, there doesn't have to
be a commitee, everyone can participate.(Tough I do agree on your
nominations)
I think we can work towards
DC standards.
mechanical standards:
FWD adapter
RWD adapter
electrical standards
Controller interface plug,not the main power connection although
that would be cool, but the pot wire,dash lights, main contactor
drive and S/P and reversing contactors and tach drive.
Plugs and connectors
AC Standards
ditto
communication standards.
Controller
Digital Dash
BMS
Charger
Dataexchange
XML telemetry storage.
etc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Sep 2006 at 15:22, Patrick Clarke wrote:
> Is there typically much of a
> city/highway differential, similar to an ICE vehicle?
It works the opposite way - range and efficiency are better in the city.
Because (most) EVs don't idle and lose very little efficiency at low speeds,
they get their best range at city driving speeds. On the highway,
aerodynamics takes its toll and range drops. The only ICE I know of which
emulates this behavior is the Prius.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now why are we discussing the Everett Community College on the EV list?
Paul G.
On Sep 5, 2006, at 1:24 AM, Jay wrote:
Creation of EVCC, aka the Electric Vehicle Certification Committee:
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The information I have says: it depends.
If the "city" you live in has traffic lights every
next street and they are not synchonised (so you
find yourself in constant stop & go from 0 to 45 MPH)
and in particular if you have a heavy vehicle and/or
no regen, then the consumption can be well higher in
the city than when cruising along on the Freeway at
a relaxed 55 MPH (outside rush-hour).
Indeed, the Prius gets very good mileage in the city
but with heavy stop & go the average drops well
below the constant Freeway drive.
And when I am able to maintain a constant speed on
the Freeway, between 55 and 60 and the display
indicates 60 to 70 MPG then that is hard to beat in
the city, unless you have a slight downhill for miles
and can stay under 42 MPH so it's all electric.
As always,
YMMV.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Another range question
On 5 Sep 2006 at 15:22, Patrick Clarke wrote:
> Is there typically much of a
> city/highway differential, similar to an ICE vehicle?
It works the opposite way - range and efficiency are better in the city.
Because (most) EVs don't idle and lose very little efficiency at low speeds,
they get their best range at city driving speeds. On the highway,
aerodynamics takes its toll and range drops. The only ICE I know of which
emulates this behavior is the Prius.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a pic of the nicads before they get bussbars. The closest group
still needs the last 3 put in, but half of them are coming out so I can
put the reinforcements in for that side, and the lexan sides as well.
It looks like some of the bussbars need to get machined a bit to open
up the hole spacing for the side to side cells. So then they need to be
replated.
252!
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/Nicadssmall.jpg
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=569
On 9/5/06, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sorry for OT (and please reply off list):
Does anyone know a supplier of a small (1" to
1.5" a side) TFT LCD displays like ones used
in today's cell phones?
Thanks in advance folks,
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The current production run was scheduled to be 36 vehicles, since they
got roughly 68 chassis from the Corbin fire sale. The tools, dies,
jigs, molds etc. that Corbin used have been destroyed. So Myers would
need to reverse-engineer the entire car if they wanted to duplicate it
in large quantities. And, if I were them, I would want to make a bunch
of changes to the Sparrow design. (So did Corbin, incidentally. They
had stopped the Sparrow run and they were redesigning, planning a car
called the Sparrow II.) So Myers has a big project in front of them.
The last time I talked to Dana Myers, about three months ago, I asked
him what his business plan was going to be after he sold all of the
Sparrow chassis he has in stock. He dodged my question, asking me what
I would do if I were in his shoes.
- Jake Oshins.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Shay
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NmG dealership in Texas!
Learning that Myers Motors has a dealership in Austin, Texas that has
sold a car stimulates my appetite for more news about Myers Motors.
Does anyone have more news about the company?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IMNSHO, it is much too early in the development cycle to be setting
standards.
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I hesitate to set voltages in the standard.
Instead standardize a method of communicating the voltage,max current.
and charge/bms communication protocol
I like the concept of RFCs, request for comment. They are used in place
and have a path to ISO. As a request for comment, there doesn't have to
be a commitee, everyone can participate.(Tough I do agree on your
nominations)
I think we can work towards
DC standards.
mechanical standards:
FWD adapter
RWD adapter
electrical standards
Controller interface plug,not the main power connection although
that would be cool, but the pot wire,dash lights, main contactor
drive and S/P and reversing contactors and tach drive.
Plugs and connectors
AC Standards
ditto
communication standards.
Controller
Digital Dash
BMS
Charger
Dataexchange
XML telemetry storage.
etc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My original suggestion of standards was to encourage sharing of
discovered designs like adapters and eliminate the proprietary nature of
the few that have been forced to design from the ground up. Those few
will benefit also as they will be able to offer more models in there
conversion kits. I know this rubs a few on this list the wrong way but
in the long run....just my 2$
The other part of this perhaps we come up with something like a plug for
the hairball and then we can wire our ev's to the standard mating plug.
Now someone can build a test box for "Authorized" service centers.
Hairball replacement and installation can be speed up. Wiring harness
adapters for specific models of cars that go from the vehicle firewall
plug to the Controller plug can be made and sold. etc.etc But we have to
have that plug standard first. This also allows us to put the hairball
inside a box, mounting the plug to the box wall.
On the mechanical side, I like the Small block Chevy analogy, literally
and when I get my server back up I will once again be practicing what I
preach as my adapter design and Nissan measurements will once again be
for all to see.
Let us start small, Let us start with a controller plug.
throttle pot 2
main contactor 2
tach 1
speed 2
S/P 1
Reverse 1
Cruise 1
12V 1
Gnd 1
Gnd 1
Gnd 1
so maybe 20 connectors? I vote for those plastic or metal AMP round ones
with the 2 larger pins and the screw type mount.
ie http://www.mouser.com/catalog/627/1003.pdf the 24pin one. These don't
have to be fully populated so the expense is not that bad.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The last time I talked to Dana Myers, about three months ago, I asked
> him what his business plan was going to be after he sold all of the
> Sparrow chassis he has in stock. He dodged my question, asking me what
> I would do if I were in his shoes.
>
> - Jake Oshins.
Did you tell him that if you were him, you'd already be working on a
new design for the end of existing stock? The other option is to plan
on dissolving the company when the Corbin creations run out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
APU potential? Italian-made Mecc Alte 120/240v, 12kW, 60Hz generator.
Weighs 57kg. Item #280025145164 has starting bid $400, BIN $500.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You connect shunt in series with negative battery
cable and the counter - to it. It has nothing to do with your
existing instrumentation and works totally independently.
Victor
Death to All Spammers wrote:
I really wish the Ranger had a nice energy meter like yours ...
You can order one, no problem. The price is on the price list,
depending on the options.
Victor
I *could* order one, but I wouldn't be able to do anything with it.
The Ranger has a "rough estimate" energy useage meter - I have no
ability to change what came OEM from Ford!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm looking for a candidate to do serial conversions of a "soccer mom
mobile"/ small buisness errand vehicle.
I'm considering the Ford Escort Wagons '91-98.
Grateful for opinions.
- John
John Foster
Vancouver BC Canada
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I got a 1981 toyota hilux with a worm and sector steering box. its a diesel
running on veggie oil. Its a pain to steer even with the tyres pumped up
hard. do these boxes need lubrication, if so, where abouts can i add some?
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Sep 2006 at 21:44, John Foster wrote:
> I'm considering the Ford Escort Wagons '91-98.
>
> Grateful for opinions.
Negatives : On the heavy side. Too many fitted with automatic
transmissions.
Positives : Batteries - 16 to 18 golf car size - can go under hood and in a
box set in rear floor, keeping all the seating positions and carrying
capacity. Practical runaround car. Spare glider parts are cheap and
plentiful.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You connect shunt in series with negative battery
> cable and the counter - to it. It has nothing to do with your
> existing instrumentation and works totally independently.
>
> Victor
You are again assuming I want to play with the wires to or from a 312V
nominal pack (or even know how to access them) - this is an OEM
vehicle built to keep out Joe Sixpack and his
inquisitive-but-litigious fingers.
Are there any Ranger owners on this list that have done their own
"shade-tree mechanic" work on the orange-encased high voltage wires?
There is one fellow on the Ranger list that has replaced the 8V
Delphis with 12V SLA Trojans in 3 different trucks, but he has both
experience and proper equipment -- other than a few mounting changes
to allow for the different shape of 12Vs, he spoofs the electronics
with some extra resistors, resets the memory, and buttons everything
up. He does have pictures of the process, but includes a stern hazard
warning. It looks like he uses more than just a few floor jacks to
play with (literally) a ton of lead.
If you had exact instructions (words and pictures) on how to trace the
traction lines in a production Ranger EV and safely insert my own
shunt, I might consider it, but this is not something I would treat
like a J.C. Whitney aftermarket bolt-on! Maybe someone knows where the
OEM shunt sits and I can add my own sensor wires - *that* I might
tackle without as much fear of frying!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I got a 1981 toyota hilux with a worm and sector steering box. its a
diesel
> running on veggie oil. Its a pain to steer even with the tyres pumped up
> hard. do these boxes need lubrication, if so, where abouts can i add
some?
>
What is "worm and sector" steering? I've only heard of rack-and-pinion
and recirculating ball.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, recirculating ball.
On 06/09/06, Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I got a 1981 toyota hilux with a worm and sector steering box. its a
diesel
> running on veggie oil. Its a pain to steer even with the tyres pumped up
> hard. do these boxes need lubrication, if so, where abouts can i add
some?
>
What is "worm and sector" steering? I've only heard of rack-and-pinion
and recirculating ball.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:27 PM 5/09/06 -0400, Dennis Berube wrote:
*** Harley just annonced they will be building a trike soon. Dennis Berube
G'day Dennis
This shows how small the world is getting - four of the people up at my
local Harley dealer here in Tasmania, Australia have rushed out and bought
shares in the company that is joint-building the trikes with Harley!
(I think it'll be a while before I could afford to buy one of their trikes,
let alone get one and convert it!)
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I keep and eye on the Arcane list. These guys take worse that this example
and make it look better than anyone could imagine. This being said they can
be as or more obsessed than most EV'ers. Maybe I should notify them of this
auto. One of them might take it on. Although not for 15k. They like a
bargain too. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: Elektro Transporter on eBay, Forgetaboutit!
> One good way to arrive at the value of a vehicle in poor condition is
> to consider what it would be worth in good condition and what it would
> cost to get it in good condition. Too many vehicles are worth less than
> nothing because their worth when restored would be less than the cost
> of restoration. This VW looks like an example of a vehicle that might
> be worth less than nothing.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mr "Death to All Spammers" (still unsure if you have a regular name) If you
are ever unsure of anything, try google or wikipedia - good descriptions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering
As for the steering box, I have owned a landcruiser that I think has the
same steering box. It does have lubrication but rarely needs refilling as it
well sealed. It also has adjustment to compensate for wear, however, this
is a little complicated of a procedure. Get a repair manual.
Here is what I would try:
- does the steering box show signs of leakage or damage?
- jack the front end off the ground, see what the steering feels like - is
it stiff?
- undo the tie rods, check the movement of the wheels and of the steering
mechanism, where is there friction in the system?
- the steering mechanism is stiff, then maybe you need to have the steering
box serviced.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: September 6, 2006 12:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Worm and Sector Steering
> I got a 1981 toyota hilux with a worm and sector steering box. its a
diesel
> running on veggie oil. Its a pain to steer even with the tyres pumped
> up hard. do these boxes need lubrication, if so, where abouts can i
> add
some?
>
What is "worm and sector" steering? I've only heard of rack-and-pinion and
recirculating ball.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David and all list readers,
I apologize for my ADD moment and over-zealous
post.
Doc Kennedy
On 9/5/06, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 5 Sep 2006 at 17:31, Doc Kennedy wrote:
> One of the 'GrassRoots' organizations that have achieved enviable status
and
> success is the Home Schooling Legal Defense Association, HSLDA.org -
> http://www.hslda.org/ [etc.]
Excuse me for mentioning it, but that post was a little too long. The
post
included between 8 and 10 paragraphs from the HSLDA website. I'm sure it
was unintentional, but it read like a promo for HSLDA, which has nothing
to
do with EVs.
It's fine to offer an example of a non-EV advocacy organization after
which
an EV organization might pattern itself, but please just post >links< to
the
organization rather than quoting extensively. Then those interested can
read as much or as little as they like about the organization.
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Holy $#!+, that's a lot of cells in one place. Could you describe the battery
box. I have two
battery boxes in the back with 72 cells in each, almost 240 pounds per box. I'm
concerned about
the structures ability to handle the weight. I'm no engineer and I've been
fretting over how
strong the boxes need to be. One good bump and half the cells go out the bottom?
Dave Cover
--- Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here is a pic of the nicads before they get bussbars. The closest group
> still needs the last 3 put in, but half of them are coming out so I can
> put the reinforcements in for that side, and the lexan sides as well.
>
> It looks like some of the bussbars need to get machined a bit to open
> up the hole spacing for the side to side cells. So then they need to be
> replated.
>
> 252!
>
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/Nicadssmall.jpg
>
> Mike
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart sez:
My point in all this is that the front end is
basically a square block,
without the slightest attempt at streamlining. So, I
think it would
make
sense to take a 5' wide piece of plastic, bend it in a
half-circle
about
12" in diameter, and place it over the front bumper
assembly. It would
cover up the ugly nose, the disintegrating foam rubber
bumper, and
streamline the nose nicely.
Actually, streamlining the front has very little
effect. It is the trailing part where the big gains
are made. Get rid of the burble in the back.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yes, I've been considering a 96 volt system in a lightweight vehicle. 96
volts with 16 x 6 volt GC
batteries is reputed to give top speed of 70 mph, range of 65 miles
(http://www.electroauto.com/gallery/metro.shtml geo metro conversion)
though
I wonder if
going to 8 volt batteries, saving (16 x ~60 lbs = 960 lbs - 12 x ~60 lbs
=
720 lbs => 240 lbs.
difference might give a little peppier / less 'lead sled' ish kind of
performance (albeit at somewhat of a range hit).
I also wonder about using a layer of 15 volt ultracap packs with such
a setup to peak shave as well as give some extra oomph (have got to figure
out how to implement
such, it needs a separate dc-dc converter I think, 15 volt ucap packs are
something like $130 ($160 for 'power' vs. $130 for 'energy' ones,
I suppose either may be ok); maybe it also needs some sort of
microcontroller control for integrating separate power sources. An
interesting engineering project I suppose. (It looks like Viktor T. was
going to use them from his webpage, but haven't heard
any update on that). The ucap specs mention they can give 1500 Amps, charge
in just seconds (maybe a good case for using regen - put it all into the
UCaps, or from other UCap lit., just have the battery trickle charge the
UCaps).
I've looked at the "Regen with a DC controller" book you can get from KTA
services, though it sounds like people tend to blow up controllers when
they do that, so I'm not sure ...
Seth Myers
Akron, Ohio
(related to/invested in Myers Motors (www.myersmotors.com) , looking to do
some
conversions, maybe start an ev club out here in the square old, less
hip-than-CA (but we do have Sparrows, er, 'NmG's') midwest)
----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: Batteries- again
> >
> >
> > > On 5 Sep 2006 at 11:56, Storm Connors wrote:
> > >
> > > > It seems strange that the 8v were created since it is
> > > > my understanding that they wanted to put more voltage
> > > > in the existing 6v battery space. If this has only
> > > > negative effects, why did they do it?
> > >
> > > >From what I've heard, they did it because golf car manufacturers
wanted
> a
> > > quick and dirty way to improve top speed and acceleration. This way
> they
> > > could get it with only minimal changes to the controller and none to
the
> > > battery box.
> > >
> > > I don't think they were too concerned with the reduced lifespan.
> > >
> > > FWIW, in road EV applications, 8v golf car batteries are a little
> shorter
> > > lived than 6v, but quite a bit longer lived than 12v marine batteries
> such
> > > as group 27 type.
> > >
> > > EV performance (of all types) is so dependent on batteries that the
> right
> > > way to go is to figure out what batteries you want and need, then
design
> a
> > > drive system to use those batteries. When you decide what your motor
> and
> > > controller will be first, then decide what performance you want, then
> > figure
> > > out what batteries you need, you are designing backwards. You are
> locking
> > > yourself into a battery that may appreciably raise your operating
costs.
> > >
> > >
> > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > > EV List Assistant Administrator
> > >
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> > > To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> > > the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
> > > ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don wrote
A few things:\
I think your premise that mainstream public avoids EVs because no
standards exist, is faulty. The general public avoids EVs because there are
no
EVs easily available that suit their lifestyle, are cost competitive, and
well marketed. If Solectria built the Sunrise, had $60m marketing budget,
CARB was in place and sold it for $15k a shot, it would be successful -
regardless of standards.
I agree - in this case, I think supply would create its own demand
(unfulfilled, often uneducated, demand because there is no such supply).
Solectria's somewhat expensive
AC stuff however seems to need about a $4000 car to get the overall price to
$15K (ok, MAYBE I'm exaggerating, but maybe not by much), so maybe DC
conversions still have a viable future (just stop doing the '82 Chevettes,
more of those cool looking sports cars, convertibles, etc.). Going into
business planning on making your own vehicle is an expensive proposition,
and hard to keep the vehicle under $15k, I believe (or maybe there would
be some such out there), whereas the typical life of vehicles is something
like 18 years before they are taken off the road, means there are a *lot* of
depreciated, fairly young, still highly mechanically functioning ICEs out
there waiting to be converted ... (of course I'm preaching to the choir
here). The problem would seem to then be to convince people to value say
a 10 yr. old Del Sol or similar converted to electric, with limited range,
as worth (in whatever broad sense) a few thousand $ more than
the gas version with virtually unlimited, albeit oil-dependent, mileage.
Maybe some good old $4-$5 gal gas would help (oops, that sounds a little
sinister, but will probably happen all by itself anyway (though prices seem
down for now,
not that I expect it to last) - maybe if people could lease ev's for weeks
or months first to
get them hooked or seriously considering it ...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
do either of you know if this is going to be a two
front or two rear???
thanks
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 06:27 PM 5/09/06 -0400, Dennis Berube wrote:
>
> >*** Harley just annonced they will be building a
> trike soon. Dennis Berube
>
> G'day Dennis
>
> This shows how small the world is getting - four of
> the people up at my
> local Harley dealer here in Tasmania, Australia have
> rushed out and bought
> shares in the company that is joint-building the
> trikes with Harley!
>
> (I think it'll be a while before I could afford to
> buy one of their trikes,
> let alone get one and convert it!)
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This was posted on the Sparrow list from
don_quixote_dlm -at- sbcglobal.net
Introduction
Hello:
Let me introduce myself. I am Jacques Goyet. I am a
former employee of Gold
Chevron & Associates (GCA). For those who are
unfamiliar with GCA, we were one
of the US representatives between Bavarian Motor Works
(BMW) and Harley Davidson
(HD) in the negotiations for the purchase of the
Tri-Hawk. This purchase fell
through because HD required that as part of the
purchase agreement all research,
development and production be done exclusively in
Milwaukee. Since BMW had
excess capacity in the newly purchased Volkswagan
plant in Wolfsberg the
purchase was a bust. After that BMW through GCI went
on to talk to both Corbin
and Phoenix but this also fell through.
What BMW was interested in was a three-wheeled vehicle
for both European and US
sales. I think they were even then they were concerned
about fuel problems and
what later became the Kyoto Accords. At the time of
the HD offer, BMW divided
three wheel vehicles into four groups: Tri-Hawks, two
driving wheels up front;
Tail draggers, two wheels up front and the power on
the rear wheel like the
T-Rex; Cushmans, with two driving wheel in the rear
and a group that BMW called
"Solex" which were like the Cushmans but the drive
wheel was in front. Now of
these, what BMW was really interested was mainly the
Tri-Hawk type with two
seats. They were very interested in either gas or
electric but really wanted two
seats and the stability that a Tri-Hawk type give.
This I think was what killed
the any Corbin deal as I didn't really feel there was
any interest in two rider
vehicles.
Now, though BMW has, for the moment, pulled out, there
are still many other GCA
investors still interested in the project and Unicorn
Services Group (USG), my
current employer, is trying to represent them.
Currently I have begun some
feelers with Myers but so far not response. Also there
was some interest in the
Armec City Mobil but I really feel that will be a very
hard sell as we are back
to one seat, it is a Cushman type and no production is
scheduled. USG is
currently discussing internally a possible dealership
in the NmG but we need to
hear more on the two seat model as well as some power
plant questions.
With this in mind I have joined your group and several
others and will be
informing you of any progress that we may find. While
doing this I will be
asking about other vehicles and/or groups you may have
information on (as well
as car shows on subject) and ask that the members keep
my informed on any new
ones. Please do this through group postings to keep
everyone informed.
Thank you,
Jacques Goyet
Unicorn Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
oh my god ! i was thinking 31 cell pack is a pain...
repeat after me:
i like watering my cells, i like watering my cells, i like watering...
Philippe
---------- Initial Header -----------
>From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : [email protected]
Cc :
Date : Wed, 6 Sep 2006 05:00:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject : Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
Holy $#!+, that's a lot of cells in one place. Could you describe the battery
box. I have two
battery boxes in the back with 72 cells in each, almost 240 pounds per box. I'm
concerned about
the structures ability to handle the weight. I'm no engineer and I've been
fretting over how
strong the boxes need to be. One good bump and half the cells go out the bottom?
Dave Cover
--- Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here is a pic of the nicads before they get bussbars. The closest group
> still needs the last 3 put in, but half of them are coming out so I can
> put the reinforcements in for that side, and the lexan sides as well.
>
> It looks like some of the bussbars need to get machined a bit to open
> up the hole spacing for the side to side cells. So then they need to be
> replated.
>
> 252!
>
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/Nicadssmall.jpg
>
> Mike
>
>
--------------------- ALICE SECURITE ENFANTS ---------------------
Protégez vos enfants des dangers d'Internet en installant Sécurité Enfants, le
contrôle parental d'Alice.
http://www.aliceadsl.fr/securitepc/default_copa.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can answer to that:
on their shoes, i would get a look at FreedomEV :^)
Philippe
---------- Initial Header -----------
>From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : <[email protected]>
Cc :
Date : Tue, 5 Sep 2006 21:54:41 -0700
Subject : RE: NmG dealership in Texas!
The current production run was scheduled to be 36 vehicles, since they
got roughly 68 chassis from the Corbin fire sale. The tools, dies,
jigs, molds etc. that Corbin used have been destroyed. So Myers would
need to reverse-engineer the entire car if they wanted to duplicate it
in large quantities. And, if I were them, I would want to make a bunch
of changes to the Sparrow design. (So did Corbin, incidentally. They
had stopped the Sparrow run and they were redesigning, planning a car
called the Sparrow II.) So Myers has a big project in front of them.
The last time I talked to Dana Myers, about three months ago, I asked
him what his business plan was going to be after he sold all of the
Sparrow chassis he has in stock. He dodged my question, asking me what
I would do if I were in his shoes.
- Jake Oshins.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Shay
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NmG dealership in Texas!
Learning that Myers Motors has a dealership in Austin, Texas that has
sold a car stimulates my appetite for more news about Myers Motors.
Does anyone have more news about the company?
--------------------- ALICE SECURITE ENFANTS ---------------------
Protégez vos enfants des dangers d'Internet en installant Sécurité Enfants, le
contrôle parental d'Alice.
http://www.aliceadsl.fr/securitepc/default_copa.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
Make sure when you get your buss bars plated, you have them plate a high
conductive alloy. Nickel plating will increase the resistance.
I found this out when I install all nickel plated fasteners on my battery
links. My copper bars at one time was coated with a very thin frosted
silvery coating which is a normal coating for buss bars. I don't have the
specs on that type of alloy. This coating is normally used in electrical
connections which might be a alloy of copper and cadmium which gives it a
frosted silvery copper tone.
Nickel is too high resistance, but has good corrosion resistance. They are
good for battery fasteners, but do not use them between the buss bars and
the battery terminals.
Copper has too high corrosion factor.
Silver which is a very good conductor but is subject to corrosion.
Gold plating is a little less conductance then silver but it has a high
resistance to corrosion.
So I used gold plating fasters between my battery post and cadmium plated
links, which acts like a bi-metal connection which we used in our overhead
line electrical work. It works good.
If we have buss bar links that does not fit the bolt holes just right, we
then drill them out a little larger and apply Tinning Butter and apply a
little lead to that area, or use a re-plating kit that you can plate this
link with any alloy you want.
You can get the plating solutions in the kit, or can purchase them in large
bulk from the Fisher Laboratory Scientific Supply Companies.
I found that the contact area makes a good conduction path. After we remove
them after years of surface, the surface was still highly polish to a mirror
finish.
You can can this Tinning Butter, Lead sticks, and even Cadmium plating kits
from www.eastwoodcompany.com
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 10:31 PM
Subject: USE S10 Nicad layout
> Here is a pic of the nicads before they get bussbars. The closest group
> still needs the last 3 put in, but half of them are coming out so I can
> put the reinforcements in for that side, and the lexan sides as well.
>
> It looks like some of the bussbars need to get machined a bit to open
> up the hole spacing for the side to side cells. So then they need to be
> replated.
>
> 252!
>
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/Nicadssmall.jpg
>
> Mike
>
>
--- End Message ---
