EV Digest 5853
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Building A Performace EV
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Building A Performace EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Zap Zebra gets Zapped
by "ROBERT GOUDREAU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Just got a fake "Second Chance" offer on item 230023221493
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Building A Performace EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Generator Trailer
by Matt Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Building A Performace EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Building A Performace EV
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Reply Editing?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: gears in or out?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Fw: Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Just got a fake "Second Chance" offer on item 230023221493
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: i'm Very skeptical
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: i'm Very skeptical
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Generator Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Building A Performace EV
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: i'm Very skeptical
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: i'm Very skeptical
by Leo & Margaret Galcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: battery costs/pricing
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: battery costs/pricing
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Don, if you're not in a hurry, you may consider BRUSA DMC544 inverter -
160kW continuous 212kW peak. It will be ready I believe some time next
year; lower power version of it (514) is due this November.
Also, HEC comes up with similar power inverter as well, will be ready at
the end of this year.
With HEC inverter you're likely be under ACP's $25k mark.
Both are flexible enough to run any induction motor capable of handling
the volts/watts. I will update the web site, but just to let you
(and everyone) know there are quite a few new AC drive choices coming.
Victor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I just missed buying a used AC Propulsion system a couple of months ago new
they are 25 thousand the last time I checked.
The AC Propulsion vehicle is lighter than what I am building I would guess
by 800 to a 1000 pounds. I don't think one motor would do it. Using two of
their motors would be a large expense.
Running two motors is an option if they can drive one single drive shaft.
Don Blazer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Brusa's motors are very expensive and it would take two or three of
them. I talked to Victor about them they make good products but the cost if I
remember right was 15,000 per motor.
I wanted to stay with an AC drive motor. I was just informed that this motor
might be something I should look at
_http://www.uqm.com/products/specsheet.html_
(http://www.uqm.com/products/specsheet.html)
Anyone know anything about them?
Don
In a message dated 9/9/2006 3:34:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I am looking to build a very fast EV
What about a stack of Brusa's?
http://www.metricmind.com/motor.htm
Or talk to Jim about your options of going as fast as possible using DC:
http://hitorqueelectric.com/
2, 9's or 11's on the same shaft? A 13"? Maybe a 15" is on order here....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
SANTA ROSA
New electric car thinks it can, it thinks it can
Steve Rubenstein, Chronicle Staff Writer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Saturday, September 9, 2006
[image: Patrick Champeau test-drives an electric car with sales
d...]<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2006/09/09/BAG3KL2B411.DTL&o=0>
[image:
Joe Moore takes a three-wheeled electric car for a spin
a...]<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2006/09/09/BAG3KL2B411.DTL&o=1>
- Printable
Version<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/09/09/BAG3KL2B411.DTL&type=printable>
- Email This
Article<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/09/09/BAG3KL2B411.DTL&type=friend&emailcolor=%23588BDB&origin=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi%3Ff%3D%2Fc%2Fa%2F2006%2F09%2F09%2FBAG3KL2B411.DTL%26hw%3Dzap%26sn%3D001%26sc%3D1000>
*
*
The car of the future came to Santa Rosa on Friday, but the future may not
be ready to go for a spin just yet.
The future, unlike the *Zap* electric car, likes to move faster than 33 mph.
"Speed is not what we're designed for," said sales director Philip Tarazi,
more than once, as he showed to a handful of bold looker-loos the many
modest wonders of the three-wheeled *Zap* electric car in its Bay Area
premiere at a new dealership on River Road.
No, said Tarazi, the *Zap* is not ready for freeways. It's also not ready
for the Sierra, for a family road trip or for a jaunt of more than a couple
of dozen miles. And even though the *Zap* is a four-seater, Tarazi said it
might not be a good idea for four adults to ride in it, at least not at the
same time.
It only took a moment, during a test drive, to find out why.
Looker-loo Patrick Champeau, who said he had dropped by the dealership
because he was looking for "something weird," got behind the wheel and
floored the accelerator. The *Zap* thought it over, then crept out onto
eastbound River Road.
Alas, Tarazi, a reporter and a photographer were in the car, too. This the *
Zap* did not like. The poor thing did its best to stay ahead of an impatient
white Chevy, but the Chevy driver crept ever closer and, unable to pass,
glowered.
And then it was time for the *Zap* to climb a 30-foot-high overpass over
Highway 101. Immediately, its speed dropped. The car of the future was not
happy about being called upon to exert itself in front of strangers. After
thinking it over, the *Zap* chugged up the molehill like the little engine
that could.
In another few minutes, the 2-mile test drive was over. The *Zap*, Tarazi
said, had expended about 20 percent of its battery on the effort and was in
need of a pick-me-up. A black extension cord was lying nearby, and the car
eyed it hungrily.
For the record, the *Zap* is made in a motorcycle factory in China. It's
fiberglass, has six batteries, costs $9,900, plugs into the wall at night
and looks like it wants to be a bumper car at Santa Cruz Boardwalk when it
grows up. It gets "up to" 40 miles on a charge, Tarazi said, and can travel
"up to" 40 mph. Also for the record, during the first few hours that the *
Zap* dealership was open, nobody bought one.
After the test drive, Champeau spent a few interesting moments peeking under
the hood like any respectable car shopper. He did not find anything in the
way of an engine, or much of anything else except a spare tire and a
container for the windshield wiper fluid.
For $9,900, a *Zap* customer is not entitled to an engine. Instead, there is
a small electric motor in back and batteries squeezed below the seats and an
electric heater whose switch turned on and off without any appreciable
effect on temperature.
After thinking it over, Champeau decided he would probably not be buying a *
Zap*, because he needs to commute on the freeway, where Zaps fear to tread,
and because he also did not think the *Zap* would fare too well were it to
get into a dustup with another vehicle. His chances of surviving a crash,
Champeau figured, would be "up to" zero.
"If you get hit in one of these things," he said, "it's goodbye."
Tarazi said there are now a couple of dozen *Zap* dealers in the country
selling the new car and the company's other stuff, which includes electric
scooters, battery-powered bicycles and a gizmo to help scuba divers swim
faster. But the car is where the future is, he said, although it's never
easy being first with anything.
"We're trying to be pioneers," Tarazi said. "We're testing the lower limits
of what the public wants."
On 9/9/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
People test driving the Zebra are not overjoyed by the performance. See
Article in the San Francisco Chronicle Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is NOT a valid "second chance offer". It directs me to contact the
seller directly which is never done and it's not listed under my "Not Won"
items as a "Second Chance" offer either. I've had these before, they say to
go through the website to buy it, not contact the seller directly, doubt
this is even the seller, probably someone trying to rip me off
All EVers, BEWARE
eBay Second Chance Offer System sent you this eBay item.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
*** Contact the seller directly at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** eBay Second Chance
Offer * Buy The Item You Recently Bid On * In compliance with eBay's Policy,
the seller is making this Second Chance Offer to you at your last bid price
of: US $650.00 The seller has issued this Second Chance Offer because either
the winning bidder was unable to complete the transaction or the seller has
duplicate items for sale. The selling of this item through Second Chance
Offer is in compliance with eBay policy; you will be able to exchange
Feedback with the seller and will be eligible for all eBay services
associated with a transaction, such as fraud protection. To purchase this
Item just contact the seller at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Contact the seller
directly at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Item Name: Auburn scientific Kodiak PWC600-144 water cooled EV
Current bid: US $835.00 (12 bids)
Shipping: View Item to Calculate
End date: Aug-27-06 23:20:01 PDT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was hoping to be able to do 0-60 in four to five seconds. I would like to
see what it could do in a 1/4 mile but this is not why I am building it.
I am planning to drive it like you would if you had an ICE sports car. I
would like it to handle about as well as it could and still be drivable on the
street.
Don Blazer
In a message dated 9/9/2006 6:44:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Don, what kind of performance are you expecting? Best to define your 1/4 mi
acceleration, top speed and 0-60 times. That way it is easier to determine
how much power you will need. Also are you only interested in straight line
performance or corner ability as well?
I use a product called CarTest2000 to help model different motor/controller
combinations with different battery weights in different cars. This allows
testing 1/4 mile times, 0-60 times and race cars against each other on
various different race tracks. Gets you in the ball park at least.
If you want performance approaching the limit of current EV technology, you
will probably need to look at either two AC systems (like Cliff at
ProEV.com) or a Siamese DC system/dual field motor (like John Wayland, Otmar
and others). RWD will give the best acceleration with no torque steer. 4WD
will help with unstable road conditions on tracks, and also will help to
maximize regen (like Cliff's car).
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: September 9, 2006 12:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Building A Performace EV
I am looking to build a very fast EV with a minimum range of 40 or 50 mile
under normal conditions.
The vehicles I have bought weigh 1550 to 2000 pounds with the ICE still in
them. Datsun 1200, Opel Kadet, Opel Manta. I looked at all the newer cars
and they all started at about 2800 pounds.
I picked these cars because they were the light vehicles and rear wheel
drive that would not be too difficult to change over. As far as the visual
looks of them they will be modified.
The plan is to use a very heavy duty rear end and couple an AC motor
directly to it with a drive line. I have NiMH batteries but am also
considering the Valence batteries if the weight is still unacceptable.
I do not have an AC motor yet and am concerned that it might not perform as
I hope. I am going to be using a lot of regeneration with the hills in the
area. I had a Solectria and one hill took 3 Ah to climb and I regained 1 Ah
on the way back.
Any recommendations on the motor?
Thanks
Don Blazer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My thought on this would be to use a small diesel engine, say a 1.5L out
of a VW rabbit and marry it to a reasonable sized generator head. You
could burn biodiesel. Is that not the ultimate green car? Electric with
a biodiesel APU!! I think these motors are 50HP and about 80Ft/lbs That
might be enough to push and recharge.
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Yup. I'm actually considering doing something like taking a used
small car engine (with all emissions controls, and muffler!) and using
that as the generator power.
For some reason, all the "oh my god, those generators are awful
polluters" never seem to think of this variation.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Victor
I was planning to have the motor or motors to build the vehicle around it.
Could I get more information on these?
Thanks
Don
In a message dated 9/9/2006 7:14:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Don, if you're not in a hurry, you may consider BRUSA DMC544 inverter -
160kW continuous 212kW peak. It will be ready I believe some time next
year; lower power version of it (514) is due this November.
Also, HEC comes up with similar power inverter as well, will be ready at
the end of this year.
With HEC inverter you're likely be under ACP's $25k mark.
Both are flexible enough to run any induction motor capable of handling
the volts/watts. I will update the web site, but just to let you
(and everyone) know there are quite a few new AC drive choices coming.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe I am missing something here but why would someone pay $664,000 base
price for a dog slow EV that did barely over 100 mph. The looks are
unquestionably great but the performance is ten to twenty years behind state
of the art. A street legal DC powered Ford Taurus did 132.353 way, way back
in 1997 in the last century. We are talking about the old days of EV
performance here. Whoever built the Fetish needs to wake up and smell the
cappuccino. We have now entered the 21st century. 132 mph for a street legal
EV was in the last century.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: Building A Performace EV
The ACP motor won't have a problem driving a 2000lb vehicle. It is the
powerplant at the heart of the Venture Fetish.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: September 9, 2006 2:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Building A Performace EV
I just missed buying a used AC Propulsion system a couple of months ago
new
they are 25 thousand the last time I checked.
The AC Propulsion vehicle is lighter than what I am building I would
guess
by 800 to a 1000 pounds. I don't think one motor would do it. Using two
of
their motors would be a large expense.
Running two motors is an option if they can drive one single drive shaft.
Don Blazer
In a message dated 9/9/2006 9:37:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
How much money you got?
http://www.acpropulsion.com/ AC-150 Gen2 System is what you
want...........
If you can afford it.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 3:54 AM
Subject: Building A Performace EV
I am looking to build a very fast EV with a minimum range of 40 or 50
mile
under normal conditions.
The vehicles I have bought weigh 1550 to 2000 pounds with the ICE still
in
them. Datsun 1200, Opel Kadet, Opel Manta. I looked at all the newer
cars
and
they all started at about 2800 pounds.
I picked these cars because they were the light vehicles and rear wheel
drive that would not be too difficult to change over. As far as the
visual
looks
of them they will be modified.
The plan is to use a very heavy duty rear end and couple an AC motor
directly to it with a drive line. I have NiMH batteries but am also
considering the
Valence batteries if the weight is still unacceptable.
I do not have an AC motor yet and am concerned that it might not
perform
as
I hope. I am going to be using a lot of regeneration with the hills in
the
area. I had a Solectria and one hill took 3 Ah to climb and I regained 1
Ah on
the way back.
Any recommendations on the motor?
Thanks
Don Blazer
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
simple, DONT USE REPLY. sorry for shouting
There are two buttons in most programs, Compose or new email and reply,
Get your finger off the reply button!!! :-)
If you are replying expect the content to be included, it makes sense to
send it along when you are having a one on one or single threaded
conversation.
When you are talking to many people on many subjects, never use reply.
The enforcement of this is a "forum", lets not go there please.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The vehicle would be something like a Chevrolet S-10 that weighs 3000 lbs
with engine. Using 15 12 volt batteries for 180 volts, this adds 1000 lbs
and another 500 lbs for controller, charger, accessories, enclosures and
passenger which makes it 4000 lbs.
A VW Beatle EV down the street from me weighs about 2800 lbs using a 72V
floor cleaning batteries.
A 2000 lb 144 volt EV could include:
15 each Optima Deep Cycle battery pack at 540 lbs
1 each ADC 144 volt motor at 140 lbs
1 each Zilla 1000A controller at 20 lbs
1 each charger at 50 lbs
and 250 lbs for passenger, cables, etc.
The motor could be a 120 volt type with ten 12 volt batteries.
The vehicle weight then must start out at 1000 lbs in order to have a total
of 2000 lbs.
I calculated that you battery running ampere would be between 30 to 40 amps
at 50 mph using 4:1 overall ratio. The start up acceleration could be kept
at or below 100 amps if you keep the acceleration speed of 0-30 mph at not
less than 10 seconds if you did not use above type components.
Using these components, you could accelerate faster, but not over 200 amps
for a extended time. The maximum running motor amps of the above motor is
about 200 amps which can surge to 400 amps or above for a very short time.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: gears in or out?
> Thanks for the info.
> For your 4000lb ev at 50mph you put out nearly twice the power
> at 2000rpm as you do at 4000rpm. So in that case I guess it makes sense
> to have a gear.
> But if you take a look at my case - I put up a graph of efficiency
> vs. power at different rpms,
> http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/car/ac42%20efficiency%20vs%20power.jpg
> it looks like from 3000rpm to 9000rpm theres barely any difference in
> eff.,
> esp at low powers where i hope to be most of the time
> (anyone have any data on this, e.g. histogram of power used or current?)
> even 1500rpm gets the same efficiency at low power.
> if the gear fuurthermore knocks down the total eff. by lets say 5%
> (anyone know about this?) then overall I should leave the gears
> out, wouldnt you say?
>
> anyone else have anything to say about this? it seems like a pretty big
> decision, I dont want to screw it up.
>
> Incidentally what kind of vehicle is the 4000pounder?
> I was calculating something like a third the 23kW power output you see
> for 50mph on a level....for a putative 2000lb vehicle of 2m^2 frontal
> area, and
> conservative aero factor of Cp=.37
>
> >Hello Jeremy,
> >Here is some data from my notes:
> >For a 4000 lb EV at 50 mph using 144 volt battery pack at 225 ah
> >Ratio Motor Amps Battery Amps RPM
>
> >6:1 122 82 4000
> >5:1 140 84 3300
> >4:1 160 85 2500
> >3:1 200 90 2000
>
> >For my 7100 lb EV at 25 to 50 mph using a 3-speed transmission where the
> >1st
> >gear is 3.5:1 2nd gear is 2.5:1 3rd gear is 1.0:1
> >Differential gear is 5.57:1
> >Maximum motor rpm of 6000 rpm.
> >180 volt battery pack at 260 AH
>
> >Gear Ratio Motor Amps Battery Amps RPM MPH
> >1st 19.495 85 65 6000 25
> >2nd 13.925 110 85 6000 35
> >3rd 5.57 250 180 3500 50
>
> >It takes about 600 watts to move 100 lbs of weight at 50 mph using a 4:1
> >gear ratio.
> >Therefore 4000 lbs of weight takes (4000/100)x600 = 24000 watts of
> >energy.
> >At 746 watts per HP, then:
> >24000/746= 32 Hp
> >Roland
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:18 PM
> Subject: gearbox in or out?
>
> >> Hi
> >> For my ev conversion I was thinking to just
> >> eliminate the original gearbox, leaving in the differential
> >> of 4:1 and by so doing kill off some extra weight. But I see that
> >> plenty of people leave in the gearbox. I have the torque/
> >> efficiency curves of my solectria ac42 up at
> >> http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/ac42%20efficiency-torque.jpg
> >> It seems maybe the point of leaving the gears in
> >> is to keep the rpms at a point of high efficiency .
> >> But from the curves I see that to get high efficiency you
> >> need higher rpms for lower torques - so it seems the
> >> motor is efficient at a certain power and less eff.
> >> at other powers. If my driving doesnt need the power
> >> that the motor likes to give, my efficiency suffers no
> >> matter what I do.
> >> Thus I still dont see why I should keep in the gearbox?
> >
> >> Looking at the peak efficiency vs power for various rpms
> >> it looks like to hit 90% efficiency I need to pull at
> >> least 17kW...so it appears I oversized my motor;
> >> do people have any info on average power they use in
> >> a daily drive?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.Leo and Margret are getting
desperate. Could someone explain to them the how to procedures. Lawrence
Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: Leo & Margaret Galcher
To: Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 8:09 PM
Subject: Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 13:39:43 -0700
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Leo & Margaret Galcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: signoff ev
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
I PLAYED BY YOUR RULES -- AND YOU REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I WANT
OUT!
To discontinue receiving any mail from the EV discussion list, send the
following email message:
* signoff ev
*
to the list processor address
* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A very pervasive scam is to send out emails that flawlessly spoof eBay's
emails like "message from seller".
Right now I get fake emails pretending to be comments sent through the
eBay system from an angry buyer/seller almost daily. Like I say, the
framing on it is flawless. It's a direct rip of what eBay's email
notices look like.
The scam is to trick you into clicking on their link to a fake eBay
signin page (also flawless) so you'll give them your eBay username and
password which they can use for fraudulent auction buy/sell activity.
Actually it's difficult to tell them from real eBay traffic. If you put
your cursor over the link at the bottom of the screen it'll show what it
really links to, often a generic IP# or obviously incorrect URL (like
one with a Czechoslovakian country code). Only safe thing to do if you
see something you need to verify is type http://www.ebay.com in your
browser manually, sign in, and check your real eBay messages through the
Web interface.
Danny
Mark McCurdy wrote:
This is NOT a valid "second chance offer". It directs me to contact
the seller directly which is never done and it's not listed under my
"Not Won" items as a "Second Chance" offer either. I've had these
before, they say to go through the website to buy it, not contact the
seller directly, doubt this is even the seller, probably someone
trying to rip me off
All EVers, BEWARE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK,
If you want to contact them you can send an email
from their website, or you can check who registered
their domain name:
http://www.fevehicle.com/ = [ 68.142.212.91 ]
Domain Name.......... fevehicle.com
Creation Date........ 2005-04-25
Registration Date.... 2005-04-25
Expiry Date.......... 2007-04-25
Organisation Name.... Chao Tan
Organisation Address. 15 windstone ct
Organisation Address.
Organisation Address. sacramento
Organisation Address. 95831
Organisation Address. CA
Organisation Address. UNITED STATES
Admin Name........... Chao Tan
Admin Address........ 15 windstone ct
Admin Address........
Admin Address........ sacramento
Admin Address........ 95831
Admin Address........ CA
Admin Address........ UNITED STATES
Admin Email.......... [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Admin Phone.......... 1.9164297590
So apparently their US office is in Sacramento.
I agree that all the signs are that this is a Chinese
(or other Far East) company with a freshly translated
web site, including photos from their Far East showroom
or shop, with the neighbor's advertising in the background
and the bus' display in (for us) unreadable characters.
Current leakage: should this be years iso hours?
Or maybe how long the car can operate on one charge
and continuously drive?
So these are "starting from" prices. How often have
you seen a car advertisement?
EVery car is "starting from" because there are always
options that add to the profit margin.
The photos are from (prototype) cars that they have
extensively tested, I would be more worried about:
- production status
- approval for US Highway use
(safety, crash-testing, all the paperwork)
But since they seem to be based on existing vehicle
designs, they may be easy to register after all.
If you have a large property and don't want to be tied
to a NEV, this is certainly a good option.
Let's hear what the others can find out about the status
of these vehicles - they look very usable, as always
from foreign companies.....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 8:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: i'm Very skeptical
On 9 Sep 2006 at 10:35, ROBERT GOUDREAU wrote:
> they can offer EVs at that price.
> http://www.fevehicle.com/services.html
These don't appear to be new vehicles. And notice that it says "Price
(starts from)." Maybe the body is optional. ;-)
This is interesting :
"the main features: voltage =72V, DC power =4.5KW, battery=2(6x100A),
current leakage time=3.5hrs, lead acid battery, full charging time 4-6hrs."
"Current leakage time"? Say what?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Ack! Ignore my last -- Didn't see the latest email from you yet with the
videos.
Mark McCurdy wrote:
I need to see some internal pictures with measurements to compare but
this motor looks like it can take a LOT of voltage
commutator is 4.25 inches in diameter (3 inch wide bushing area)and is
made up of (1/8 inch thick?) plates of copper running the length of
the rotor, not wires flattened and pressed to the shaft, no weakness
there
bushings come in 4 pairs, 90 degrees apart around the commutator, each
pair is made up of 2 almost black bushings with 1/2 by 1 inch contact
area to run on the commutator (total of 1/2 by 2 inches)
camera is being a pain so I made a small jpg
fear my leet photoshop skilz :op
drop me an email if you want to see it, I'll get my camera up in a
couple days and post some actual pictures, hehe
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
Jeff Major wrote:
I agree my ball park calculation is probably conseravtive for
several reasons, but not the one you mention. Series motor torque
is only proprotional to square of armature current below knee of
saturation curve. High loads, approaching stall, will certianly
take mmf higher than knee and no longer provide proprotional
increase in flux, so the squared rule will not apply.
The specs for the motor being discussed (Surplus Center item# 10-2120,
compound wound, 24v, 72a, 149 lbs.) are clearly well under its actual
ratings. 72 amps is nowhere near its saturation current. Therefore, the
torque = current squared approximation is better than torque = current.
Yes, at high currents, saturation does reduce the torque-per-amp
relationship. However, motors have air gaps, so saturation occurs
gradually.
Here is the torque-vs-amps relationship for a similar motor, a GE
5BT1346B50, which weighs 170 lbs:
torque current
ft.lbs amps
5 110
10 135
20 185
40 295
60 400
80 500
100 590
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
> If you want to contact them you can send an email
> from their website, or you can check who registered
> their domain name:
> http://www.fevehicle.com/
>
They could advertise "looks like a car, drives like a moped" since
they have NEV/LSV speed limits. At least they look more solid than
that other Chinese import, ZAP's Xebra - they have 2 front wheels!
--- End Message ---
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But, if you are using a 1.5L VW diesel, why not just build a diesel pusher
trailer? It's much easier to do than retrofitting, re-engineering, and
rube-goldberging such a nasty fit.
Better yet, keep the VW intact. You'll get about 10 to 20% better
performance by driving the intact rig than using it as a pusher... and about
40% better than driving a generator. Go w/ the Turbo Rabbit and get 50+ MPG.
Tell your agent it's a "collector's car" and get it insured for $80 a year.
Of all the EV ideas, the auxiliary generator is the lamest. This makes as
much sense as the guy who wanted his donkey to win the Kentucky Derby. You
waste your time, money, and in the end, you are both jackasses. <vbg> If
your EV can't do the job for a few trips, find something that can... or ride
Greyhound, for crying out loud.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Generator Trailer
> My thought on this would be to use a small diesel engine, say a 1.5L out
> of a VW rabbit and marry it to a reasonable sized generator head. You
> could burn biodiesel. Is that not the ultimate green car? Electric with
> a biodiesel APU!! I think these motors are 50HP and about 80Ft/lbs That
> might be enough to push and recharge.
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Rod, what we are waiting for is **your** AC motor and controller (well
maybe, just me!). We know it will be powerful, plus have regen, liquid
cooled, be able to hold on hills and be able to blow the doors off
everything...
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roderick Wilde
Sent: September 9, 2006 7:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Building A Performace EV
Maybe I am missing something here but why would someone pay $664,000 base
price for a dog slow EV that did barely over 100 mph. The looks are
unquestionably great but the performance is ten to twenty years behind state
of the art. A street legal DC powered Ford Taurus did 132.353 way, way back
in 1997 in the last century. We are talking about the old days of EV
performance here. Whoever built the Fetish needs to wake up and smell the
cappuccino. We have now entered the 21st century. 132 mph for a street legal
EV was in the last century.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: Building A Performace EV
> The ACP motor won't have a problem driving a 2000lb vehicle. It is the
> powerplant at the heart of the Venture Fetish.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: September 9, 2006 2:11 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Building A Performace EV
>
>
> I just missed buying a used AC Propulsion system a couple of months ago
> new
> they are 25 thousand the last time I checked.
>
> The AC Propulsion vehicle is lighter than what I am building I would
> guess
> by 800 to a 1000 pounds. I don't think one motor would do it. Using two
> of
> their motors would be a large expense.
>
> Running two motors is an option if they can drive one single drive shaft.
>
> Don Blazer
>
> In a message dated 9/9/2006 9:37:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> How much money you got?
>
> http://www.acpropulsion.com/ AC-150 Gen2 System is what you
> want...........
>
> If you can afford it.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 3:54 AM
> Subject: Building A Performace EV
>
>
>>I am looking to build a very fast EV with a minimum range of 40 or 50
> mile
>> under normal conditions.
>>
>> The vehicles I have bought weigh 1550 to 2000 pounds with the ICE still
> in
>> them. Datsun 1200, Opel Kadet, Opel Manta. I looked at all the newer
>> cars
>
>> and
>> they all started at about 2800 pounds.
>>
>> I picked these cars because they were the light vehicles and rear wheel
>> drive that would not be too difficult to change over. As far as the
> visual
>> looks
>> of them they will be modified.
>>
>> The plan is to use a very heavy duty rear end and couple an AC motor
>> directly to it with a drive line. I have NiMH batteries but am also
>> considering the
>> Valence batteries if the weight is still unacceptable.
>>
>> I do not have an AC motor yet and am concerned that it might not
>> perform
>
>> as
>> I hope. I am going to be using a lot of regeneration with the hills in
>> the
>> area. I had a Solectria and one hill took 3 Ah to climb and I regained 1
>> Ah on
>> the way back.
>>
>> Any recommendations on the motor?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Don Blazer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Why does the 4-6 passenger mini van look identical to the 1980 Jet
> Industries ElectraVan? I find this suspicious, at best
Not necessarily. Similar vans are still in production all over Asia -
Japan, Korea, and probably China.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
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I think the simpler question is why is this list set to prohibit HTML?
HTML is very useful and I don't see what problem it can cause. However
prohibiting it is causing lots of probs.
Note disabling HTML in sent messages is problematic because it would
disable HTML for other recipients which you don't want to remove it
from, unless your mail program lets you set the settings specifically
for each recipient. Really this seems like an overly complicated
solution for a problem which may not have any need to be there.
Danny
David Roden wrote:
On 9 Sep 2006 at 9:37, Matt Kenigson wrote:
Okay. Here's another example of a post that I don't see due to its being
sent in a non-text format.
There are two problems here.
1. Calvin King did not send a plain text post. His mail program (Apple
mail) sent a multipart MIME message in two formats, plain text and HTML. The
list's html filter whacked off the html and replaced it with the warning
message, but left the plain text.
2. Your mail reader (Gmail) assumed that since this was a multipart message
with html, that you'd want to see the html version. It had no idea that the
the html had been blasted.
Calvin should set Apple Mail to send plain text ONLY, and you should tell
Gmail (if possible) to let you see the plain version, not the html version,
in multpart messages.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 10 Sep 2006 at 2:09, Danny Miller wrote:
> I think the simpler question is why is this list set to prohibit HTML?
I don't know all the reasons, but I think the main one is that it vastly
increases the bandwidth and load on the server. This is especially true for
the generated html that most email programs produce.
SJSU's listserver is plenty well-loaded already. I suspect that allowing
html in all traffic would slow it to a crawl.
> disabling HTML in sent messages is problematic because it would
> disable HTML for other recipients which you don't want to remove it
> from ...
I'd much rather receive plain text in my email. I'm probably a rare beast,
but I actually find html mail rather annoying. I read mail to get the
information, which is in the text. Most of what html adds is just
gingerbread.
I use Pegasus, which allows one to have multiple mail identities. One can
switch identities with one drop-down box setting. These can be different
email addresses, or different mail servers, or just different setups. Thus
should you adopt this client you could have one identity that sends plain
text and reads plain text (even when html is available) and use that for the
list. You could also have another identity for your friends who don't mind
receiving html messages from you.
IMO, the EV list provides a wealth of information for EV hobbyists. I
return for tapping a pretty deep reservoir of experience we ask list members
(among a few other matters) to comply with the request to not use html or
attachments. I really don't think it's that big a hardship, but perhaps I'm
atypical.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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