EV Digest 5852
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 2 8"s vs 2 9"s
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: LEM Module use for current monitoring
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: subaru adapter plate help.
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Truck thoughts, charging
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Motor + adapter already mounted to transmission + charger still available
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: subaru adapter plate help.
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Building A Performace EV
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Motor + adapter already mounted to transmission + charger still
available
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Motor + adapter already mounted to transmission + charger still
available
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Motor + adapter already mounted to transmission + charger still
available
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Building A Performace EV
by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Diode for Curtis/Albright contactor
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Cheap EV motor
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) I'm not that sceptical Was: Re: i'm Very skeptical
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Building A Performace EV
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Permanent Interconnections needed
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: battery costs/pricing
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Cheap EV motor
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Zap Zebra gets Zapped
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: gears in or out?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) AC Controller with Regen
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Building A Performace EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Ford Ranger Battery lift on Ebay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: Building A Performace EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
Bill Dube' had a pack of "SVR" batteries in the bike at Woodburn in '02. As
I recall, one, or was it two, blew up at 850 amps. Bill?
BB
>From: "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 11:58:24 -0400
>
<snip>
> EV parts has a small 14ah battery that puts out 900 amps
>http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=92&product_id=1907
>and weights 12 lbs that looks good . The other battery I've been thinking
>about is the hawker odyssey , 24ah , 1510 I believe the number is . I could
>get some distance with that , but more weight , I'm planning on 348v pack.
>Thanks for your input ( said the motor to the controller)
>Steve Clunn
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd take +12v and gnd, use a charge pump IC like the 7662 to make +24v,
put an ammeter (or voltmeter across a resistor) between M and +12v.
Now the 7662 is limited to 20mA out, and thus the output current through
the M terminal can't exceed 20mA (a 20 amp reading). However if you
arrange the cable and meter the other way, the high current discharges
will make an output current which shunts current to gnd instead of using
the +24v terminal and thus won't have a supply current prob. Or
multiple 7662's can be used in parallel to increase the rating.
Danny
Death to All Spammers wrote:
It can do a fine job of replacing a shunt on a 96V system. What
feature
is worrying you?
Mainly, how to wire it up!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael, you may want to contact some of the RX-7 owners (check evalbum.com)
and see what they have done.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of mike golub
Sent: September 9, 2006 12:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: subaru adapter plate help.
Michael Brown wrote
"Subarus and rotary Mazdas have a design that recesses the flywheel into the
back of the engine. This requires a very thick and expensive adapter plate
for the electric motor. For that reason I don't recommend them."--Page 31,
CONVERT IT
Isn't that because he mills them out of piece of aluminum? I mean he does
great work, but perhaps there's an easier method.
Could I make a stell plate and then add brackets on the sides?
Here's a top view of the car minus ICE.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikeak/238592966/
I was thinking the sides of the bell house could be enlarged somewhat?
Seems to be many subaru's in my town, and it would be pretty cool if I could
figure this out.
Thanks,
Michael
Fairbanks, AK
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been driving the truck a bit more now that it's legal. Last night I
took it on a 22ah drive, was sinking to 250 volts (1.0vpc) under a 180a
load at the end. As compared to 275ish at the start. So I think it still
had some power.
Charging though is odd. The Dolphin charges at 2a rate, then cycles back
to .5a at 387 volts (1.53vpc). I've noticed though that with the E-meter
set to a 90% CEF, the end charge rate is at around on a 20ah run is 3ah
down at 387 volts.
Should I have the CEF set a bit higher? Is it possible that the 110% put
back in rule relates to watt-hours and not amp-hours? Or do new flooded
NiCDs have a higher CEF like AGMs do?
Or should I not be using the E-meter's CEF system?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You may remember a week and a half ago, someone tipped us off to an EV motor +
adapter already mounted on the transmission (also included) + a charger on
e-bay. I said, don't bid, because I will and I plan to get it.
Well, I never could work out a way to ship the parts, so they are still
available:
9" GE motor
adapter plate for vintage VW
coupler (retains clutch)
+ spare VW transaxle
+ Lester 120 V / 30 A charger (runs off 208 V outlet)
All parts were removed from a Bradley EV.
Still available for only $600 (package deal) and he said for me he was even
willing to throw in the old controller (not sure if it even works though). One
small (for me huge) problem. The parts are in Chico, CA, and he has no way to
ship them to me. Not willing to crate them up. Only one shipping company in
town and the cost is prohibitive. The parts seem like the find of the year to
me, if you plan to make a VW EV. I just can't get them no matter how much I
want them ... unless one of you close to Chico is willing to go pick them up,
disassemble them, and ship them UPS in seperate packages. I asked him to do
that. Initially he said OK. Then he came back and said it was all one unit and
he couldn't (not sure why) get them apart.
Anyone willing to pick up my find of the year? Didn't think so, but it never
hurts to ask? Or, want to get them yourself? If I was anywhere near there
(within 350 miles, I'd do it, but no way from where I am). Oh well, another
great find has passed me by.
If you seriously want the parts, contact me off list, and I'll give you his
number. No tire kickers, or in our case motor spinners please.
Steve
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks all three of the rx7 conversions replaced the
tranny with something else.
Good Idea though.
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael, you may want to contact some of the RX-7
> owners (check evalbum.com)
> and see what they have done.
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: September 9, 2006 12:33 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: subaru adapter plate help.
>
> Michael Brown wrote
>
> "Subarus and rotary Mazdas have a design that
> recesses the flywheel into the
> back of the engine. This requires a very thick and
> expensive adapter plate
> for the electric motor. For that reason I don't
> recommend them."--Page 31,
> CONVERT IT
>
> Isn't that because he mills them out of piece of
> aluminum? I mean he does
> great work, but perhaps there's an easier method.
>
> Could I make a stell plate and then add brackets on
> the sides?
>
> Here's a top view of the car minus ICE.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikeak/238592966/
>
> I was thinking the sides of the bell house could be
> enlarged somewhat?
>
> Seems to be many subaru's in my town, and it would
> be pretty cool if I could
> figure this out.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael
> Fairbanks, AK
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking to build a very fast EV
What about a stack of Brusa's?
http://www.metricmind.com/motor.htm
Or talk to Jim about your options of going as fast as possible using DC:
http://hitorqueelectric.com/
2, 9's or 11's on the same shaft? A 13"? Maybe a 15" is on order here....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Anyone willing to pick up my find of the year? Didn't think so,
but it never hurts to ask? Or, want to get them yourself? If I was
anywhere near there (within 350 miles, I'd do it, but no way from
where I am). Oh well, another great find has passed me by.
>
Chico is about 100 miles from me - I'd pick it up for the cost of gas.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
and pack/ship?
hehe
though, I'm too big to do a VW conversion (think clowns and a clown car)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: Motor + adapter already mounted to transmission + charger still
available
Anyone willing to pick up my find of the year? Didn't think so,
but it never hurts to ask? Or, want to get them yourself? If I was
anywhere near there (within 350 miles, I'd do it, but no way from
where I am). Oh well, another great find has passed me by.
Chico is about 100 miles from me - I'd pick it up for the cost of gas.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> and pack/ship?
> hehe
> though, I'm too big to do a VW conversion (think clowns and a clown car)
>
No, I wouldn't pack, but can ship out of Sacramento for most gas
money. (please use a smiley instead "hehe", it makes me think of Dubya
as done by Jon Stewart - creepy).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Um, I would think 1 motor would be pretty fast! How fast you need it?? And
if you want to do duals (400 HP?), very few batteries will supply it. You'd
need like A123Systems batteries for that (www.a123systems.com) Valence or
most EV NIMHs won't do it. I'm even having doubts Valence or NIMH will
supply even a single motor, unless you have a lot of them loaded in the car
like ACPropulsion loaded 1000 pounds of 18650 li-ion cells. Your best bet
would be A123 cells. Don't know which NIMH cells you have, high discharge or
not.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: Building A Performace EV
I just missed buying a used AC Propulsion system a couple of months ago
new
they are 25 thousand the last time I checked.
The AC Propulsion vehicle is lighter than what I am building I would
guess
by 800 to a 1000 pounds. I don't think one motor would do it. Using two
of
their motors would be a large expense.
Running two motors is an option if they can drive one single drive shaft.
Don Blazer
In a message dated 9/9/2006 9:37:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
How much money you got?
http://www.acpropulsion.com/ AC-150 Gen2 System is what you
want...........
If you can afford it.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 3:54 AM
Subject: Building A Performace EV
I am looking to build a very fast EV with a minimum range of 40 or 50
mile
under normal conditions.
The vehicles I have bought weigh 1550 to 2000 pounds with the ICE still
in
them. Datsun 1200, Opel Kadet, Opel Manta. I looked at all the newer
cars
and
they all started at about 2800 pounds.
I picked these cars because they were the light vehicles and rear wheel
drive that would not be too difficult to change over. As far as the
visual
looks
of them they will be modified.
The plan is to use a very heavy duty rear end and couple an AC motor
directly to it with a drive line. I have NiMH batteries but am also
considering the
Valence batteries if the weight is still unacceptable.
I do not have an AC motor yet and am concerned that it might not
perform
as
I hope. I am going to be using a lot of regeneration with the hills in
the
area. I had a Solectria and one hill took 3 Ah to climb and I regained 1
Ah on
the way back.
Any recommendations on the motor?
Thanks
Don Blazer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Diode for Curtis/Albright contactor
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2006 21:14:43 -0700
>> What diode would be a good match to the coil on a 12
>> Volt Curtis/Albright contactor?
Bob Bath wrote:
> I'm thinking it's like a 1N4004 or so. It needs a voltage rating
> higher than the pack? Paging Lee A. Hart on this one...
Just got home from a week's vacation. 1200+ emails to wade thru...
The diode is there to protect whatever is switching the contactor coil.
The contactor itself would be quite happy with no diode; in fact, it
would drop out faster and its contacts would last longer.
If you just put a diode across the coil, it needs to be rated for
whatever current the coil draws when on, and whatever voltage is
powering the coil. A 1N4001 is on the puny side; 50v, 1amp. A 1N5400 is
better; 50v, 3amps. These are right for a coil powered from a 12v
battery; for higher voltage coils, use a correspondingly higher voltage
diode (1N4001-1N4007 for 50-1000v at 1amp, 1N5400-1N5408 for 50-1000v
3amps, etc.)
Personally, I prefer an MOV, ZNR, or AC transient absorber, rated for
2-4 times the coil voltage. They are not polarity sensitive, are built
to withstand high peak loads, and let the coil voltage rise higher so
the contactor drops out quicker.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
There's a good treatment of this by TYCO ( the relay people) at:
relays.tycoelectronics.com/appnotes/app_pdfs/13c3311.pdf
Here, they show, as Lee explained, the problem with just using a diode.
They list, and evaluate, several ways to do this.
One setup they recommend ( that I chose to use) is to use a zener ( for
example, a 24v zener for a 12V coil) and a regular diode back-tp-back across
the coil. This results in a pretty fast dropout, and also limits the back
EMF to about the zener voltage.
It's also cheap, and easy to do.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Search from any web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live
Toolbar Today! http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
uploaded some AVIs, click on the Download File on each page
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006082923234358&item=10-2120&catname=electric
this is the motor I got, it's HEAVY when you're trying to pick it up.
took it apart and videoded the pieces and even got a couple of it running on
jumper cables from my truck's 12v battery (don't have any 6Vers yet)
http://upload.ohshare.com/v/4261214/Movie_00_bearing_.avi.html
http://upload.ohshare.com/v/8393157/Movie_01_bushingholder_.avi.html
held by 4 screws, can be taken out and the holes elongated to provide
advancing if needed
bearing on end of rotor sets in center, if you look at the bearing video,
you'll see that it's got a threaded hold in it, should be able to drill out
the end of the bearing depression (small hole) and maybe add a small stub on
it for driving something small (tachometer?)?
http://upload.ohshare.com/v/1092664/Movie_02_bushings2_.avi.html
http://upload.ohshare.com/v/2781878/Movie_03_bushings_.avi.html
http://upload.ohshare.com/v/1971060/Movie_04_commutator1_.avi.html
http://upload.ohshare.com/v/4791985/Movie_05_commutatordetailed_.avi.html
http://upload.ohshare.com/v/5095889/Movie_06_rotor_.avi.html
http://upload.ohshare.com/v/1205031/Movie_07_run12v_better_.avi.html
http://upload.ohshare.com/v/8427740/Movie_08_run12v_oops_.avi.html
sounds loud on the video because the microphone is close to it, actually
very quiet in person
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
I need to see some internal pictures with measurements to compare but this
motor looks like it can take a LOT of voltage
The specs for the motor being discussed (Surplus Center item# 10-2120,
compound wound, 24v, 72a, 149 lbs.) are clearly well under its actual
ratings. 72 amps is nowhere near its saturation current. Therefore, the
torque = current squared approximation is better than torque = current.
Yes, at high currents, saturation does reduce the torque-per-amp
relationship. However, motors have air gaps, so saturation occurs
gradually.
Here is the torque-vs-amps relationship for a similar motor, a GE
5BT1346B50, which weighs 170 lbs:
torque current
ft.lbs amps
5 110
10 135
20 185
40 295
60 400
80 500
100 590
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Basicly so, but there is a back door in it. Not only volume but the
whole effiency of the vehicle counts. People seem to be very picky about
the gas prices nowadays.
ICE operating cost against new EV technology.
Gov support on high effiency low pollution.
EV reliability against ICEs. (At least my fault count is higher on diesel)
4 litres per 100 km diesel car consumes at least 3 times more energy
compared to same sized Lithium battery EV.
So during first 150 000 km (93 000 miles) diesel car consumes say 6000
eur ($7620) diesel and EV 2250 eur ($2860) electricity. One Lithium
battery pack survives that out nicely.
When more and more people can verify these results we are getting on it.
I could quote one japanese car manufacturer whos R&D director stated
"Hybrids are just a way to get pure EVs accepted and on the roads"
I could not agree more on that.
Also I love EVs because you can actually choose which terrorist group
you want to support. Just select corresponding energy source. That's it.
-Jukka
fevt.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti:
In a message dated 9/9/2006 2:25:38 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Something just occurred to me...EV's have fewer parts than it's ICE
counterpart. That's one of the major selling points of EV's. So why are
mass produced EV's potentially more expensive than an ICE? Why can't EV's
be manufactured inexpensively?
VOLUME!
ICE manufactures buy their parts in staggeringly large volumes. That makes
the end product much cheeper. EV's are more expensive because EV manufactures
can't buy the parts in large volume because they can't sell in large volume
because people won't pay the price of low volume. So, it's a catch 22 thing.
If the general public can, somehow, be swayed into buying EV's, the cost will
come down as the sales go up. But, people have to buy them first!
Ken
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The ACP motor won't have a problem driving a 2000lb vehicle. It is the
powerplant at the heart of the Venture Fetish.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: September 9, 2006 2:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Building A Performace EV
I just missed buying a used AC Propulsion system a couple of months ago new
they are 25 thousand the last time I checked.
The AC Propulsion vehicle is lighter than what I am building I would guess
by 800 to a 1000 pounds. I don't think one motor would do it. Using two of
their motors would be a large expense.
Running two motors is an option if they can drive one single drive shaft.
Don Blazer
In a message dated 9/9/2006 9:37:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
How much money you got?
http://www.acpropulsion.com/ AC-150 Gen2 System is what you want...........
If you can afford it.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 3:54 AM
Subject: Building A Performace EV
>I am looking to build a very fast EV with a minimum range of 40 or 50
mile
> under normal conditions.
>
> The vehicles I have bought weigh 1550 to 2000 pounds with the ICE still
in
> them. Datsun 1200, Opel Kadet, Opel Manta. I looked at all the newer cars
> and
> they all started at about 2800 pounds.
>
> I picked these cars because they were the light vehicles and rear wheel
> drive that would not be too difficult to change over. As far as the
visual
> looks
> of them they will be modified.
>
> The plan is to use a very heavy duty rear end and couple an AC motor
> directly to it with a drive line. I have NiMH batteries but am also
> considering the
> Valence batteries if the weight is still unacceptable.
>
> I do not have an AC motor yet and am concerned that it might not perform
> as
> I hope. I am going to be using a lot of regeneration with the hills in
> the
> area. I had a Solectria and one hill took 3 Ah to climb and I regained 1
> Ah on
> the way back.
>
> Any recommendations on the motor?
>
> Thanks
> Don Blazer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton writes:
>
> Tinning them is a waste of time; tin is very similar in potential to
> copper and so will be corroded just as quickly when in contact with the
> Ni battery terminals in the presence of KOH electrolyte.
That's not my experience. I used copper bus bars for interconnects
on my NiCads. I first put them on raw, and within a month there was
a thick layer of blue fluff near the terminals. I removed them and
cleaned the bus bars with mild acid, then had them tin plated. They
were on the car for over a year and there was just a slight white
discoloration on a few terminals.
Tin may not be the perfect plating for use with NiCads, but it's much
better than raw copper.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ralph Merwin wrote:
> That's not my experience.
> Tin may not be the perfect plating for use with NiCads, but it's much
> better than raw copper.
Well, I'll certainly concede to real-world experience. ;^>
I certainly don't see any good reason why tin should be an less reactive
than copper in this application. Are you sure your bars were tin
plated, or that there was *only* a layer of tin applied (for instance,
if you take something to be chrome plated, it actually receives at least
one or two layers of plating underneath the shiny surface plating)?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's a lot of different types of solder to tin with too. There's
lead-free and then a wide variety of electrical, jewelry, and structural
solders. Lots of silver solders. But the all contain some degree of
tin, though it's a much smaller percentage than electrical solder in
some types.
Danny
Ralph Merwin wrote:
Roger Stockton writes:
Tinning them is a waste of time; tin is very similar in potential to
copper and so will be corroded just as quickly when in contact with the
Ni battery terminals in the presence of KOH electrolyte.
That's not my experience. I used copper bus bars for interconnects
on my NiCads. I first put them on raw, and within a month there was
a thick layer of blue fluff near the terminals. I removed them and
cleaned the bus bars with mild acid, then had them tin plated. They
were on the car for over a year and there was just a slight white
discoloration on a few terminals.
Tin may not be the perfect plating for use with NiCads, but it's much
better than raw copper.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg wrote:
> I doubt I'll go over 400 amps much. This Curtis 1231 has
> a 500 amp limit.
And as a practical matter, you'll never actually get there. The Curtis
cuts back its current as it warms up, and since it *always* warms up,
you almost never get its rated current.
> If auto posts are chosen, how would permanent connections be done,
> same as described below for flag terminals?
Pretty much. For auto posts, I'd use copper terminals, crimped onto #0
or #00 wire, then fluxed and lead-dipped. This will cover any exposed
copper with lead, and is also a backup in case of a weak crimp. Put this
terminal on the battery, and use a torch to weld the post to the
terminal. That should be the last time you have to worry about that
connection until you replace the batteries!
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sep 9, 2006, at 10:28 AM, David Roden wrote:
On 9 Sep 2006 at 9:37, Matt Kenigson wrote:
Okay. Here's another example of a post that I don't see due to its
being
sent in a non-text format.
There are two problems here.
1. Calvin King did not send a plain text post. His mail program (Apple
mail) sent a multipart MIME message in two formats, plain text and
HTML. The
list's html filter whacked off the html and replaced it with the
warning
message, but left the plain text.
2. Your mail reader (Gmail) assumed that since this was a multipart
message
with html, that you'd want to see the html version. It had no idea
that the
the html had been blasted.
Interesting as I use Apple "Mail." With these messages I only see the
warning unless I open the message and select View > Message > Raw
Source. I pretty sure I don't send this way from Mail because I have
set "Mail" preferences to plain text (Mail > Preferences > Composing >
Format > Plain Text.)
Sigh... options are so limited - I should switch back to Eudora.
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
I'd be interested in seeing the photos. Don't worry about the size, my
email size limit is about 100Mb.
-- Eric
Mark McCurdy wrote:
I need to see some internal pictures with measurements to compare but
this motor looks like it can take a LOT of voltage
commutator is 4.25 inches in diameter (3 inch wide bushing area)and is
made up of (1/8 inch thick?) plates of copper running the length of
the rotor, not wires flattened and pressed to the shaft, no weakness
there
bushings come in 4 pairs, 90 degrees apart around the commutator, each
pair is made up of 2 almost black bushings with 1/2 by 1 inch contact
area to run on the commutator (total of 1/2 by 2 inches)
camera is being a pain so I made a small jpg
fear my leet photoshop skilz :op
drop me an email if you want to see it, I'll get my camera up in a
couple days and post some actual pictures, hehe
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
Jeff Major wrote:
I agree my ball park calculation is probably conseravtive for
several reasons, but not the one you mention. Series motor torque
is only proprotional to square of armature current below knee of
saturation curve. High loads, approaching stall, will certianly
take mmf higher than knee and no longer provide proprotional
increase in flux, so the squared rule will not apply.
The specs for the motor being discussed (Surplus Center item# 10-2120,
compound wound, 24v, 72a, 149 lbs.) are clearly well under its actual
ratings. 72 amps is nowhere near its saturation current. Therefore, the
torque = current squared approximation is better than torque = current.
Yes, at high currents, saturation does reduce the torque-per-amp
relationship. However, motors have air gaps, so saturation occurs
gradually.
Here is the torque-vs-amps relationship for a similar motor, a GE
5BT1346B50, which weighs 170 lbs:
torque current
ft.lbs amps
5 110
10 135
20 185
40 295
60 400
80 500
100 590
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
:op
check my later post, I've got VIDEOS up now, :oD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
Mark,
I'd be interested in seeing the photos. Don't worry about the size, my
email size limit is about 100Mb.
-- Eric
Mark McCurdy wrote:
I need to see some internal pictures with measurements to compare but
this motor looks like it can take a LOT of voltage
commutator is 4.25 inches in diameter (3 inch wide bushing area)and is
made up of (1/8 inch thick?) plates of copper running the length of
the rotor, not wires flattened and pressed to the shaft, no weakness
there
bushings come in 4 pairs, 90 degrees apart around the commutator, each
pair is made up of 2 almost black bushings with 1/2 by 1 inch contact
area to run on the commutator (total of 1/2 by 2 inches)
camera is being a pain so I made a small jpg
fear my leet photoshop skilz :op
drop me an email if you want to see it, I'll get my camera up in a
couple days and post some actual pictures, hehe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
People test driving the Zebra are not overjoyed by the performance. See
Article in the San Francisco Chronicle Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info.
For your 4000lb ev at 50mph you put out nearly twice the power
at 2000rpm as you do at 4000rpm. So in that case I guess it makes sense
to have a gear.
But if you take a look at my case - I put up a graph of efficiency
vs. power at different rpms,
http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/car/ac42%20efficiency%20vs%20power.jpg
it looks like from 3000rpm to 9000rpm theres barely any difference in eff.,
esp at low powers where i hope to be most of the time
(anyone have any data on this, e.g. histogram of power used or current?)
even 1500rpm gets the same efficiency at low power.
if the gear fuurthermore knocks down the total eff. by lets say 5%
(anyone know about this?) then overall I should leave the gears
out, wouldnt you say?
anyone else have anything to say about this? it seems like a pretty big
decision, I dont want to screw it up.
Incidentally what kind of vehicle is the 4000pounder?
I was calculating something like a third the 23kW power output you see
for 50mph on a level....for a putative 2000lb vehicle of 2m^2 frontal area, and
conservative aero factor of Cp=.37
>Hello Jeremy,
>Here is some data from my notes:
>For a 4000 lb EV at 50 mph using 144 volt battery pack at 225 ah
>Ratio Motor Amps Battery Amps RPM
>6:1 122 82 4000
>5:1 140 84 3300
>4:1 160 85 2500
>3:1 200 90 2000
>For my 7100 lb EV at 25 to 50 mph using a 3-speed transmission where the 1st
>gear is 3.5:1 2nd gear is 2.5:1 3rd gear is 1.0:1
>Differential gear is 5.57:1
>Maximum motor rpm of 6000 rpm.
>180 volt battery pack at 260 AH
>Gear Ratio Motor Amps Battery Amps RPM MPH
>1st 19.495 85 65 6000 25
>2nd 13.925 110 85 6000 35
>3rd 5.57 250 180 3500 50
>It takes about 600 watts to move 100 lbs of weight at 50 mph using a 4:1
>gear ratio.
>Therefore 4000 lbs of weight takes (4000/100)x600 = 24000 watts of energy.
>At 746 watts per HP, then:
>24000/746= 32 Hp
>Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:18 PM
Subject: gearbox in or out?
>> Hi
>> For my ev conversion I was thinking to just
>> eliminate the original gearbox, leaving in the differential
>> of 4:1 and by so doing kill off some extra weight. But I see that
>> plenty of people leave in the gearbox. I have the torque/
>> efficiency curves of my solectria ac42 up at
>> http://physics.technion.ac.il/~rutman/ac42%20efficiency-torque.jpg
>> It seems maybe the point of leaving the gears in
>> is to keep the rpms at a point of high efficiency .
>> But from the curves I see that to get high efficiency you
>> need higher rpms for lower torques - so it seems the
>> motor is efficient at a certain power and less eff.
>> at other powers. If my driving doesnt need the power
>> that the motor likes to give, my efficiency suffers no
>> matter what I do.
>> Thus I still dont see why I should keep in the gearbox?
>
>> Looking at the peak efficiency vs power for various rpms
>> it looks like to hit 90% efficiency I need to pull at
>> least 17kW...so it appears I oversized my motor;
>> do people have any info on average power they use in
>> a daily drive?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are 2 BRUSA AC 325 controllers with regen on E-Bay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=140027824685&ih=004&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=140027825578&ih=004&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT
jimmy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I tried contacting A123 and they will not reply.
The NiMH batteries I have are the 95 Ah @ C3 rate. This would be a 360 volt
system 26 batteries weighing just over 1000 pounds
Don
In a message dated 9/9/2006 4:00:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Um, I would think 1 motor would be pretty fast! How fast you need it?? And
if you want to do duals (400 HP?), very few batteries will supply it. You'd
need like A123Systems batteries for that (www.a123systems.com) Valence or
most EV NIMHs won't do it. I'm even having doubts Valence or NIMH will
supply even a single motor, unless you have a lot of them loaded in the car
like ACPropulsion loaded 1000 pounds of 18650 li-ion cells. Your best bet
would be A123 cells. Don't know which NIMH cells you have, high discharge or
not.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: Building A Performace EV
>
> I just missed buying a used AC Propulsion system a couple of months ago
> new
> they are 25 thousand the last time I checked.
>
> The AC Propulsion vehicle is lighter than what I am building I would
> guess
> by 800 to a 1000 pounds. I don't think one motor would do it. Using two
> of
> their motors would be a large expense.
>
> Running two motors is an option if they can drive one single drive shaft.
>
> Don Blazer
>
> In a message dated 9/9/2006 9:37:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> How much money you got?
>
> http://www.acpropulsion.com/ AC-150 Gen2 System is what you
> want...........
>
> If you can afford it.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 3:54 AM
> Subject: Building A Performace EV
>
>
>>I am looking to build a very fast EV with a minimum range of 40 or 50
>>mile
>> under normal conditions.
>>
>> The vehicles I have bought weigh 1550 to 2000 pounds with the ICE still
>> in
>> them. Datsun 1200, Opel Kadet, Opel Manta. I looked at all the newer
>> cars
>> and
>> they all started at about 2800 pounds.
>>
>> I picked these cars because they were the light vehicles and rear wheel
>> drive that would not be too difficult to change over. As far as the
>> visual
>> looks
>> of them they will be modified.
>>
>> The plan is to use a very heavy duty rear end and couple an AC motor
>> directly to it with a drive line. I have NiMH batteries but am also
>> considering the
>> Valence batteries if the weight is still unacceptable.
>>
>> I do not have an AC motor yet and am concerned that it might not
>> perform
>> as
>> I hope. I am going to be using a lot of regeneration with the hills in
>> the
>> area. I had a Solectria and one hill took 3 Ah to climb and I regained 1
>> Ah on
>> the way back.
>>
>> Any recommendations on the motor?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Don Blazer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Item #150030410630
No connection to the sale, and I usually avoid spoiling others' luck and leave
searching to the buyers, but this tool is too specialized to let it leave the
hobby!
-Jay
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free
AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Don
That is what I am concerned with is weight. I might be closer to 3000 than
2000 pounds. What would it do with 600 or 800 more pounds than the Venture
Fetish?
Don I think you sold me the heater a couple of months ago?
Don Blazer
In a message dated 9/9/2006 4:36:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The ACP motor won't have a problem driving a 2000lb vehicle. It is the
powerplant at the heart of the Venture Fetish.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: September 9, 2006 2:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Building A Performace EV
I just missed buying a used AC Propulsion system a couple of months ago new
they are 25 thousand the last time I checked.
The AC Propulsion vehicle is lighter than what I am building I would guess
by 800 to a 1000 pounds. I don't think one motor would do it. Using two of
their motors would be a large expense.
Running two motors is an option if they can drive one single drive shaft.
Don Blazer
In a message dated 9/9/2006 9:37:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
How much money you got?
http://www.acpropulsion.com/ AC-150 Gen2 System is what you want...........
If you can afford it.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 3:54 AM
Subject: Building A Performace EV
>I am looking to build a very fast EV with a minimum range of 40 or 50
mile
> under normal conditions.
>
> The vehicles I have bought weigh 1550 to 2000 pounds with the ICE still
in
> them. Datsun 1200, Opel Kadet, Opel Manta. I looked at all the newer cars
> and
> they all started at about 2800 pounds.
>
> I picked these cars because they were the light vehicles and rear wheel
> drive that would not be too difficult to change over. As far as the
visual
> looks
> of them they will be modified.
>
> The plan is to use a very heavy duty rear end and couple an AC motor
> directly to it with a drive line. I have NiMH batteries but am also
> considering the
> Valence batteries if the weight is still unacceptable.
>
> I do not have an AC motor yet and am concerned that it might not perform
> as
> I hope. I am going to be using a lot of regeneration with the hills in
> the
> area. I had a Solectria and one hill took 3 Ah to climb and I regained 1
> Ah on
> the way back.
>
> Any recommendations on the motor?
>
> Thanks
> Don Blazer
--- End Message ---
