EV Digest 5855
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re:Current Eliminator News/PBS
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Freeway Flyer
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re:Reverse and NHRA/Nedra
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica, NY
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) More Leopard motor questions
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re:Current Eliminator News/PBS
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Freeway Flyer
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re:Current Eliminator News/PBS
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: battery costs/pricing
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re:Reverse and NHRA/Nedra
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Removing HTML
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Reverse and NHRA/Nedra
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Reverse and NHRA/Nedra
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Curtic Controller, Help Help!
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Freeway Flyer
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Curtic Controller, Help Help!
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Reply Editing?
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV Cal was Freedom Flyer
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Need relay for E-12 M
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Reverse and NHRA/Nedra
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re:Reverse and NHRA/Nedra
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Curtic Controller, Help Help!
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: driving an A/C compressor
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) OT: Spoofed emails
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Freeway Flyer
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The Current Eliminator was filmed on friday from 4pm til 11pm.The interview
with me went well about 30 minutes.Also an interview with another EV person
that was there(Iwill let him tell his view)and then interviews with 2 of the
NHRA
summit top racers about racing against an ev.Filming was on and off track
with a few cameras set up in different places on the track to catch all the
RACING action.The 3rd run against a fuel dragster was a great shot with both of
us
crossing the finish at about the same time but with the CE winning the
round.CE did have its problems though with hooking the track.We lost in the 1st
round
of this ADRA race with on and off tire spin to the 300ft mark.After the race
#2/4/5 NHRA Summit Super Pro racers and their crews came to the line and down
track to evalute my problems in 4 more test runs.With all the moisture in the
air and on the track my tire pressure was way to hi.So we dropped it to 5lbs
from 7.5 what a remarkable difference.The 60ft.times were .34 better and the
300ft.was.46 better with the overall ET back to the 11.95 +- that I had been
geting on a dry day.So I will leave the tire pressure low for the rest of the
NHRA Summit season.The PBS crew E mailed me on sat. to tell me they got great
footage,and interviews from my competiors. Dennis Berube Really racing the
ices at their own game and making friends. A fun night!!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: EV cal, was Freeway Flyer
> I'm not sure where you got your 2400 watts per 100 lbs from, but at
This data was deride from two EV's, one which is a VW Beattle that weigh
2800 lbs and my EV which weighs 7100 lbs with a 5.57:1 ratio.
The VW has a 4:1 ratio which use 16.8 Kw at 50 mph.
2800/100 = 28
16800/28 = 600 watts
600 x 4 = 2400
Now using the 2400 constant for my EV:
2400 / 5.57 = 430.8 watts
7100/100 = 71
71 x 430.8 = 30592 battery watts
motor effeciency at 83%
30592 x 83% = 25391 motor output watts or
25391 / 746 = 34 hp.
Motor is 165V at 175A = 28875 watts
28875 x 83% = 23966 motor output watts or
23966 / 746 = 32.1 hp.
The motor is a 32 hp motor.
Emeter reads at 50 mph is 170 battery
amps or 240 motor amps
30592/180V = 169.9 amps.
So, this calculation is only 0.1 volt off by doing this type of calculation
which amaze me the first time I use it.
Years latter, I use the WWW.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html?200629
and found my calculations was in with 3.4 battery amps, so that is close
enough for me.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was talking to a nedra hi up yesterday and he informed me my reverse was
not REAL.I do have a reverse on the dragster that lets me backup over 300
feet.On the Street/Strip truck I am building I will use the same setup but with
a
few more AH battery.It should have a foward range of 25 miles and be able to
backup about 700feet.I have read both the NHRA and nedra rules both of which
require reverse but do not stipulate how far one should be able to back up.I
have
not read the Arizona motor book but I do not think they will ask me to back up
700ft to register this truck.The nedra member seems to think I bend all the
rules including this one,so Nedra how far must one be able to go in reverse?
There were many records set by nedra racers who did not have reverse at all do
these records count?
My reverse does not use the zillas reverse but just 1 small single pole
contactor and 2 #4 wires to the motor with a 13ah battery and 250 amp lkn
fuse.The NHRA tech folks are happy with my setup why not nedras?
Dennis Berube visit my updated site
at currenteliminator.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don,
It is good if you show up with a working vehicle and have some flyers for
your local EAA (especially if you are a member). Also some handouts with
EV related web sites is a great way to let people know "we" are out here.
We did it here in Phoenix/Scottsdale and it resulted in a bunch of new
interest in the EAA and EVs locally. Start early and be ready for a lot
of questions - it will be fun.
Jimmy
https://www.dm3electrics.com/
From: "Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject:
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:10:55 -0400
Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo!
Briefcase ]
Go to this link:
http://mwpai.org/performingarts/performances/filmseries/#1662
I just found out about this performance this morning. It's occurring later
this week. Wish I were
more prepared to support it with EV literature, etc. Any suggestions what
I might do to support
EV's during these shows? I don't have much time to prepare.
The shows are Wednesday Sept 13 & Friday September 15 2 PM & 7:30 PM
both days
I'm open to suggestions and any support you might offer
Thanks
Don B. Davidson III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
117 Dean St
Rome, NY 13440
315 337 2124
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks,
It seems like all real progress keeps bringing me into uncharted waters.
I had a Prestolite MTC4001 motor (96V rating) refurbished to drop into
my Lectric Leopard. My pack is 120V so I got the MTC prevent abuse of
the original Prestolite MTA4001 motor (48V rating). It turns out the
MTC would require more machining on my adapter plate, some sheet metal
work in the engine bay and a precise hole drilled in the armature
shaft to accept a custom pilot bearing for the trans input shaft.
I'm trying to finish this car before my (and my family's) patience
runs out, so the original MTA is starting to look much better. I
opened it up for a quick visual and found much to my surprise that
it's not a series motor. It's compound. (Thanks to Jeff Major for
pointing that out in a private response to my last post. I didn't
believe him at the time, but he made me more receptive to the obvious
when I saw it. ;^)
The MTA has two posts on it labeled A and S. Both the field and shunt
windings are connected to the S post. The leads coming out of the
shunt coils look to be around 18 ga. The field coils are wound with
roughly 1/2" x 1/16" copper strap. Total resistances for the shunt
and field windings are 16.1 and 0.2 ohms respectively. (Consider
these ballpark numbers - they were taken with a Radio Shack meter on a
200 ohm scale.) The other end of the shunt winding goes to the A post
and one set of armature brushes. The other end of the field winding
goes to the other set of brushes.
I'm going to assume here that all Renault LeCar-based Lectric Leopards
used this motor. Collective experience tells us they are very tough
motors that can be trusted in EVs with packs up to 120V. Typically
compound motors don't have the low-end torque of a series, but Pat
Sweeney ran one in his Leopard at 96V with a contactor controller and
had no trouble getting wheelspin, so I will assume running mine at
120V with a Zilla Z1k will certainly provide sufficient torque. But
other questions arise:
1. One of the nice things about a compound motor is that they don't
try to go to infinite speed with no load. Am I still protected if I'm
running it at close to three times its rated voltage?
2. When over-volting a series motor you can reduce arcing by advancing
the timing. Around 10 degrees is what I've read when discussing ADC
series motors. Does the same apply to a compound motor? Would anyone
venture a guess at the proper setting for my Prestolite MTA? If no
specific experience is available, would it hurt to just blindly
advance it 10 degrees?
3. I'm going to have this one freshened like I did with the MTC. In
part because I found the shunt lead wasn't retained properly and got
severed by spinning hardware. (I hope getting my shunt coils back
will improve the leisurely performance, and make some very strange
load-related noises go away.) Anyway, does anyone have any
suggestions for things to look for or take care of while the motor
guys are in there?
4. Is anyone interested in a virtually new Prestolite MTC4001? It's
sad to have it sitting here all dressed up with nowhere to go....
As always, thanks in advance for any advice.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dennis;
Cool nite at the track! Thanks for the Heads Up as to PBS Filming. Be
looking for the show. Keep us posted as to when the'll show it.
Sounded like a fun night at the trak! Any OTHER Listers make it out,
vidio cam in hand?
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 1:44 PM
Subject: Re:Current Eliminator News/PBS
> The Current Eliminator was filmed on friday from 4pm til 11pm. Snip-a-bit
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I interpret this as:
28 is "vehicle weight, in hundreds of pounds" (strange, but ok...)
600W is "watts per hundred lb". This is a nonsense figure, watts are
not used on a per-lb basis.
2400 is "motor watts before the drive ratio, per hundred lb". This is
an invalid calculation. Drive ratio does not increase or decrease the
power required at all. You will either have to deliver high torque at
low rpm or a lower torque at higher rpms. Either way the power
requirements are the same. Drive ratio is still quite important since
your motor is only capable of putting out a limited range of rpms. It's
a fairly wide range relative to an ICE, but at the limits of the useful
rpm range the motor may be less efficient, have inadequate torque, or
simply fly apart from overspeed. Anyways, used in the proper range it's
like 90%-95% or more efficient.
It's a pity. We'd love to be able to make a 10000:1 drive ratio and
power the car with a little Dremel tool. But the understand that energy
isn't created from nothing and gears never increase power was laid out
at least 100 years ago.
Danny
Roland Wiench wrote:
This data was deride from two EV's, one which is a VW Beattle that weigh
2800 lbs and my EV which weighs 7100 lbs with a 5.57:1 ratio.
The VW has a 4:1 ratio which use 16.8 Kw at 50 mph.
2800/100 = 28
16800/28 = 600 watts
600 x 4 = 2400
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good for you! It is nice to see you getting good national press for
beating the ICEs at their own game, head-to-head.
Again, congratulations.
Bill Dube'
At 01:44 PM 9/10/2006, you wrote:
The Current Eliminator was filmed on friday from 4pm til 11pm.The interview
with me went well about 30 minutes.Also an interview with another EV person
that was there(Iwill let him tell his view)and then interviews with
2 of the NHRA
summit top racers about racing against an ev.Filming was on and off track
with a few cameras set up in different places on the track to catch all the
RACING action.The 3rd run against a fuel dragster was a great shot
with both of us
crossing the finish at about the same time but with the CE winning the
round.CE did have its problems though with hooking the track.We lost
in the 1st round
of this ADRA race with on and off tire spin to the 300ft mark.After the race
#2/4/5 NHRA Summit Super Pro racers and their crews came to the line and down
track to evalute my problems in 4 more test runs.With all the moisture in the
air and on the track my tire pressure was way to hi.So we dropped it to 5lbs
from 7.5 what a remarkable difference.The 60ft.times were .34 better and the
300ft.was.46 better with the overall ET back to the 11.95 +- that I had been
geting on a dry day.So I will leave the tire pressure low for the rest of the
NHRA Summit season.The PBS crew E mailed me on sat. to tell me they got great
footage,and interviews from my competiors. Dennis Berube Really
racing the
ices at their own game and making friends. A fun night!!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
On 10 Sep 2006 at 1:40, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
Perhaps the list server could just *remove* the offending attachment
(HTML in this case) and replace it with a plain text '-- Attachment
Removed --' or something like that...
That's exactly what it does.
I wish:
--0-1177997020-1157820008=:38202
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
U.S. Battery used to offer a discount to EV hobbyists and would ship the order
to them. Don't know if they still do. IIRC, the US2200s were about $43 each.
Blue skies,
Patrick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark McCurdy
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: battery costs/pricing
gah, battery prices are inSANE in arkansas
just called interstate batteries here, they said their 6v 115ah batteries
were $73 each
I think I'd rather order some and have them shipped from me
anyone got suggestions on a good place?
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--0-1177997020-1157820008=:38202
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--0-1177997020-1157820008=:38202--
Notice how it doesn't remove the attachment, it just replaces the HTML
with it's plain text message. Which would usually be fine, except that
the email has this header:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
----
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis,
This seems odd to me. Perhaps you misunderstood the NEDRA
official (or perhaps the specific NEDRA official does not understand
the reason for the requirement.)
I am no longer a NEDRA official, so all opinions are my own.
(It seems, lately, that my opinions often conflict with NEDRA these
days.) So take this just as a comment from a fellow list member, not
anything official whatsoever.
Reverse is required by the NHRA for two reasons:
1) To prevent a delay in the competition when the car (without
reverse) accidentally overshoots the starting line.
2) To enhance safety by having the car push itself back, instead of a
crew of people running out on the track and pushing it back by hand.
If your car can reliably move itself back to the starting
line, then you fully meet the NHRA requirement. (I personally have
witnessed that your car easily and reliably moves itself back to the
starting line.)
The NEDRA requirement for reverse was invoked (it was said,)
to align the NEDRA rules more closely with the NHRA rules. Thus, one
would think, meeting the NHRA requirement, both in the letter of the
law and the intent of the law, should also meet the NEDRA requirement.
Bill Dube'
At 02:05 PM 9/10/2006, you wrote:
I was talking to a nedra hi up yesterday and he informed me my reverse was
not REAL.I do have a reverse on the dragster that lets me backup over 300
feet.On the Street/Strip truck I am building I will use the same
setup but with a
few more AH battery.It should have a foward range of 25 miles and be able to
backup about 700feet.I have read both the NHRA and nedra rules both of which
require reverse but do not stipulate how far one should be able to
back up.I have
not read the Arizona motor book but I do not think they will ask me
to back up
700ft to register this truck.The nedra member seems to think I bend all the
rules including this one,so Nedra how far must one be able to go in reverse?
There were many records set by nedra racers who did not have reverse
at all do
these records
count?
My reverse does not use the zillas reverse but just 1 small single pole
contactor and 2 #4 wires to the motor with a 13ah battery and 250 amp lkn
fuse.The NHRA tech folks are happy with my setup why not
nedras?
Dennis Berube visit my
updated site
at currenteliminator.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
On 10 Sep 2006 at 1:40, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
Perhaps the list server could just *remove* the offending attachment
(HTML in this case) and replace it with a plain text '-- Attachment
Removed --' or something like that...
That's exactly what it does.
Yes, except it's not quite done exactly. The list server removes the
HTML, but apparently leaves part of the headers indciating that the
message contains HTML. My email reader sees that and doesn't display the
text (I have it set to NOT display HTML), all I get is the box stating
that the HTML has been removed.
It *is replacing* the HTML with a plain text attachment. But because the
clients are marking the email as 'multipart/alternative' (as they
should), your email client correctly shows only the last attachment. It
appears the the attachment stripper is designed to work correctly only
for 'multipart/mixed' email (email with regular attachments)...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 9/10/2006 12:20:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Subj: Re:Reverse and NHRA/Nedra
> Date:9/10/2006 12:20:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Dennis,
>
> This seems odd to me. Perhaps you misunderstood the NEDRA
> official (or perhaps the specific NEDRA official does not understand
> the reason for the requirement.)
>
> I am no longer a NEDRA official, so all opinions are my own.
> (It seems, lately, that my opinions often conflict with NEDRA these
> days.) So take this just as a comment from a fellow list member, not
> anything official whatsoever.
>
> Reverse is required by the NHRA for two reasons:
>
> 1) To prevent a delay in the competition when the car (without
> reverse) accidentally overshoots the starting line.
>
> 2) To enhance safety by having the car push itself back, instead of a
> crew of people running out on the track and pushing it back by hand.
>
> If your car can reliably move itself back to the starting
> line, then you fully meet the NHRA requirement. (I personally have
> witnessed that your car easily and reliably moves itself back to the
> starting line.)
>
> The NEDRA requirement for reverse was invoked (it was said,)
> to align the NEDRA rules more closely with the NHRA rules. Thus, one
> would think, meeting the NHRA requirement, both in the letter of the
> law and the intent of the law, should also meet the NEDRA requirement.
>
> Bill Dube'
Thanks fellow lister for conferming my car does indeed
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 9/10/2006 12:20:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Subj: Re:Reverse and NHRA/Nedra
> Date:9/10/2006 12:20:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Dennis,
>
> This seems odd to me. Perhaps you misunderstood the NEDRA
> official (or perhaps the specific NEDRA official does not understand
> the reason for the requirement.)
>
> I am no longer a NEDRA official, so all opinions are my own.
> (It seems, lately, that my opinions often conflict with NEDRA these
> days.) So take this just as a comment from a fellow list member, not
> anything official whatsoever.
>
> Reverse is required by the NHRA for two reasons:
>
> 1) To prevent a delay in the competition when the car (without
> reverse) accidentally overshoots the starting line.
>
> 2) To enhance safety by having the car push itself back, instead of a
> crew of people running out on the track and pushing it back by hand.
>
> If your car can reliably move itself back to the starting
> line, then you fully meet the NHRA requirement. (I personally have
> witnessed that your car easily and reliably moves itself back to the
> starting line.)
>
> The NEDRA requirement for reverse was invoked (it was said,)
> to align the NEDRA rules more closely with the NHRA rules. Thus, one
> would think, meeting the NHRA requirement, both in the letter of the
> law and the intent of the law, should also meet the NEDRA requirement.
>
> Bill Dube'
Thanks fellow lister and racer for confirming that the CE does indeed have a
reverse that meets the National requirements. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
Hey! You Curtis Garu's out there?There is a good chance I can get my Sentra
to RUN this PM, IF I hook up the Curtis controller up, this is the one the car
CAME with and DID run, before I tore it all apart. OK I Have a Curtis
instruction manual for the Curtis 1209B/1221B And I have a1221C-7401 Sez this
on the plate on the end, as well as 72-120volts, well, thats good on a 90 volt
car, 400 amps, too. No fireball, but it SHOULD run the damn car, again?The case
is 11" long, a tab bigger than the one,B, in the manual.
Here's the biggie. There are 4 terminals coming out of it. on top, left to
rite is:B- and B+ Lower rite is M+ I Think? it is a bit croady, the lower
right is taped up, wasn't used before in the car. How is the C models different
than the B's?The Key switch gotta be the Operating(90) volts to turn it on, ?
Not 12volts, I'm sure?I shoulda taken notes when I took it apart LAST
year.Since there are only 3 active, or used terminals on the hy power side, not
sure where EVerything goes?As I'm using the tranny to get reverse I don't need
all the wiring shown in the manual. Maybe that's why he didn't use the lower
right lug, and taped it up? The Pot box is in place, didn't mess with that. I
need 90 volts to the key switch thing, I guess?Well, through a relay setup> I'm
going through all his wiring that the car was done with before.It's harder to
dope out somebody ELSES wiring than doing it all yourself. That's why I'm
cheating and asking<g>!!
iDEAS?
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> This data was deride from two EV's, one which is a VW Beattle that
weigh
> 2800 lbs and my EV which weighs 7100 lbs with a 5.57:1 ratio.
>
> The VW has a 4:1 ratio which use 16.8 Kw at 50 mph.
That's an intesting data point - my Ranger uses 13-14kw at 50mph,
weighs ~4900lbs with me in it, and has no tonneau cover, so aero is
not at its best - despite a Beetle's age, it is still better than a
truck when it comes to wind resistance, in both Cd and frontal area.
>
> Emeter reads at 50 mph is 170 battery
> amps or 240 motor amps
>
Your 180V system needs 170A (>30kw) to maintain 50mph? It's probably
not an issue in *your* useage, since you don't regularly run on the
freeway or go more than 10mi on any single day, but that's
600wt-hrs/mi. Is this why your EV Album entry has range at 10mph?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Here's the biggie. There are 4 terminals coming out of it. on
top, left to rite is:B- and B+ Lower rite is M+ I Think? it is a bit
croady, the lower right is taped up, wasn't used before in the car.
How is the C models different than the B's?The Key switch gotta be the
Operating(90) volts to turn it on, ? Not 12volts, I'm sure?I shoulda
taken notes when I took it apart LAST year.Since there are only 3
active, or used terminals on the hy power side, not sure where
EVerything goes?As I'm using the tranny to get reverse I don't need
all the wiring shown in the manual. Maybe that's why he didn't use the
lower right lug, and taped it up? The Pot box is in place, didn't mess
with that. I need 90 volts to the key switch thing, I guess?Well,
through a relay setup> I'm going through all his wiring that the car
was done with before.It's harder to dope out somebody ELSES wiring
than doing it all yourself. That's why I'm cheating and asking<g>!!
>
The fourth terminal should be labelled A2 - it's used for plug
braking, so leave it taped up as a reminder to NEVER USE IT! B- is
also the M- terminal, so 2 lugs on there when set up correctly.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually reply can be a useful button.
When you reply to a message, there is a bunch of info in the message
header that gets passed on in your new message. (In MS Outlook:
View-Options and look at the Internet Headers)
Anyway, smart mail reading programs (not necessarily MS Outlook :-) use
this info to organise your inbox, displaying conversations in threaded
order.
Needless to say, for something as big and busy as the EVDL, this is a
very useful thing.
On a similar note (and as has been said before) if you start a
completely new mail topic by replying to a message and then deleting the
subject and body, writing in your own, some mail software can get
confused and try to include your message in the middle of the original
thread.
This is the time for the "new email" button.
Mark
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
> Subject: Re: Reply Editing?
>
> simple, DONT USE REPLY. sorry for shouting
>
> There are two buttons in most programs, Compose or new email
> and reply,
> Get your finger off the reply button!!! :-)
>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: Freeway Flyer
I am just using watts per weight to show the energy used between different
weight EV's.
If a 2800 lb EV uses 16800 watts of energy to drive a certain speed for a
certain length of time as compare to another that:
weighs 7100 lbs that uses 42000 watts of energy to drive the same speed for
the same time with the same ratio.
If you divide the watts by the weight, in both EV's it will be about 6 watts
per lb.
Batteries are rated this way, although I never seen it use in this
discussion group. A very good battery will be rated as high as 25 watts per
lb.
If you have a 120 ah battery at 6 volts that weighs 60 lbs, then (120 x
6)/60 = 12 watts per lb.
My batteries are 260 ah at 6 volts that weighs 71 lbs, then (260 x 6)/71 =
21.9 watts per lb.
Roland
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Just had someone help me work on my Elec-traks and he told me that One
of my heavy duty contactors is bad.
Anyone know a good source for the cylindrical contactors like used on
the E-12. I'll pull the part and get the exact number, but for now it
is the top left one when looking into the elec-trak's service panel.
Thanks,
James
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Hello to All,
As one who recently went through a huge redesign of the under-hood
wiring (both high voltage-hight current circuits as well as low voltage
control and safety circuits) to comply with NHRA rules, NEDRA rules, and
to make the car much easier to use on a daily basis, I agree with Bill
that Dennis' reverse system qualifies...if it backs up, you qualify.
I 'will' say, that after trying the Berube' method of cleverly using the
flyback diodes inside the Zilla controller and a 12V battery where the
series-wound motor is turned into a crude shunt wound motor that does
indeed, spin the other direction at low voltage-high current, that for
my car's weight and the uphill driveway I have to back up and out of, it
didn't work very well. Again, in my car's instance using just the front
motor section, when the contactor closed and 550+ amps flowed from the
13.5 lb. Hawker, the 4 gauge wires began to smoke from the heat of all
that current in no time as the car barely moved itself. I tried 1/0
cables and though they didn't smoke, the little 12V battery sagged
terribly at 700+ amps...arggh...and the car still barely crawled
backwards. The added extra 30 lbs. combined weight of the battery and
mounting bracket, the heavy and longer-than-I-wanted runs of cables, and
the contactor plus unacceptable (for me) super s-l-o-w and non-variable
reverse performance sent me looking into other methods of reversing my car.
For those who may have missed it, I covered in detail how we ended up
putting reverse in the car in my 8-28-06 post 'Reversing White Zombie'.
The total weight of the added contactors and the very short bus bars and
cable runs was about 6 lbs., the track performance was unaffected
(backed up with time slip ETs), and man oh man, is reverse through the
controller smooth! I used it many times today as I was cleaning and
detailing the car, charging and equalizing the batteries, and rewiring
under the hood (tidying up things I haven't been happy with).
Dennis, I'd say the way you effectively reverse your rail qualifies.
Your rail's at least 600 lbs. lighter weight than my car's weight, and
its large diameter single motor (vs half of my dual armature motor) are
probably the reasons your reverse method works well for you.
To mirror Bill's comments...I am not a NEDRA official and all opinions
are my own. Take this also as just as a comment from a fellow list
member and fellow drag racer 'really racing the ICEs at their own game
of heads up style racing and making friends', not anything official
whatsoever.
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
If your car can reliably move itself back to the starting
line, then you fully meet the NHRA requirement....one
would think, meeting the NHRA requirement, both in the letter of the
law and the intent of the law, should also meet the NEDRA requirement.
Bill Dube'
Thanks fellow lister and racer for confirming that the CE does indeed have a
reverse that meets the National requirements. Dennis Berube
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Dennis, I totally agree with Bill on this and it seems very odd to me as
well. I would certainly like to know what NEDRA official told you this. You
can contact me off list if you would like.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA Marketing Director
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 12:12 PM
Subject: Re:Reverse and NHRA/Nedra
Dennis,
This seems odd to me. Perhaps you misunderstood the NEDRA official
(or perhaps the specific NEDRA official does not understand the reason for
the requirement.)
I am no longer a NEDRA official, so all opinions are my own. (It
seems, lately, that my opinions often conflict with NEDRA these days.) So
take this just as a comment from a fellow list member, not anything
official whatsoever.
Reverse is required by the NHRA for two reasons:
1) To prevent a delay in the competition when the car (without reverse)
accidentally overshoots the starting line.
2) To enhance safety by having the car push itself back, instead of a crew
of people running out on the track and pushing it back by hand.
If your car can reliably move itself back to the starting line,
then you fully meet the NHRA requirement. (I personally have witnessed
that your car easily and reliably moves itself back to the starting line.)
The NEDRA requirement for reverse was invoked (it was said,) to
align the NEDRA rules more closely with the NHRA rules. Thus, one would
think, meeting the NHRA requirement, both in the letter of the law and the
intent of the law, should also meet the NEDRA requirement.
Bill Dube'
At 02:05 PM 9/10/2006, you wrote:
I was talking to a nedra hi up yesterday and he informed me my reverse was
not REAL.I do have a reverse on the dragster that lets me backup over 300
feet.On the Street/Strip truck I am building I will use the same setup but
with a
few more AH battery.It should have a foward range of 25 miles and be able
to
backup about 700feet.I have read both the NHRA and nedra rules both of
which
require reverse but do not stipulate how far one should be able to back
up.I have
not read the Arizona motor book but I do not think they will ask me to
back up
700ft to register this truck.The nedra member seems to think I bend all
the
rules including this one,so Nedra how far must one be able to go in
reverse?
There were many records set by nedra racers who did not have reverse at
all do
these records count?
My reverse does not use the zillas reverse but just 1 small single
pole
contactor and 2 #4 wires to the motor with a 13ah battery and 250 amp lkn
fuse.The NHRA tech folks are happy with my setup why not nedras?
Dennis Berube visit my updated
site
at currenteliminator.net
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Bob,
If it is like my 1221R controllers (it should be), the lower left is M- as
the Controller uses the more common and cheaper N MOSFETs to switch the
negative side. The lower right (taped) is A2, not required, used for plug
braking or regen on the models applicable.
The 1221R use 12V for control signals, like key Sw and drive enable from the
pot box microswitch, and has a 10 position connector for all those 12V
signals and a regen pot. Yours may be controlled/enabled from pack
voltage - better try to check which, if you can remember how that part of it
was wired.
HTH.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 3:42 PM
Subject: Curtic Controller, Help Help!
Hi EVerybody;
Hey! You Curtis Garu's out there?There is a good chance I can get my
Sentra to RUN this PM, IF I hook up the Curtis controller up, this is the
one the car CAME with and DID run, before I tore it all apart. OK I Have a
Curtis instruction manual for the Curtis 1209B/1221B And I have
a1221C-7401 Sez this on the plate on the end, as well as 72-120volts,
well, thats good on a 90 volt car, 400 amps, too. No fireball, but it
SHOULD run the damn car, again?The case is 11" long, a tab bigger than the
one,B, in the manual.
Here's the biggie. There are 4 terminals coming out of it. on top, left
to rite is:B- and B+ Lower rite is M+ I Think? it is a bit croady, the
lower right is taped up, wasn't used before in the car. How is the C
models different than the B's?The Key switch gotta be the Operating(90)
volts to turn it on, ? Not 12volts, I'm sure?I shoulda taken notes when I
took it apart LAST year.Since there are only 3 active, or used terminals
on the hy power side, not sure where EVerything goes?As I'm using the
tranny to get reverse I don't need all the wiring shown in the manual.
Maybe that's why he didn't use the lower right lug, and taped it up? The
Pot box is in place, didn't mess with that. I need 90 volts to the key
switch thing, I guess?Well, through a relay setup> I'm going through all
his wiring that the car was done with before.It's harder to dope out
somebody ELSES wiring than doing it all yourself. That's why I'm cheating
and asking<g>!!
iDEAS?
Bob
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Jimmy
The motor I'd like to control is rated for 100 volt, 18 amps. It should be
beefy enough if I can
get a controller. In fact, I'd like to drive both the AC and power steering off
the same motor, if
possible. Finding an affordable controller to match the motor has been the
problem. I have a 24v,
500 watt motor with a built in controller, but it isn't up to either task.
Dave Cover
--- DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave,
> The best controllers I have seen for tese applications are the ones
> Solectria used on the AC and Power steering units. I think these
> controllers were pulse width modulated and also reduced the voltage output
> depending on the pack and motor voltages. These controllers were
> typically 120vdc 10 amp output continuous. This is around 1,200 watts
> which makes it around 1.6 HP. An AC compressor needes at least a 1Hp
> motor to keep it from stalling. The controllers that are under 500 watts
> will probably have problems. I may build some of these controllers but
> dont know if there would be much of a demand.
> Jimmy
> https://www.dm3electrics.com/
>
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I will always respond to these attacks with a bogus name and
password. If enough people did this these attacks would disappear do
to it being too much work for the attacker to get valid account
information. This spam can work both ways. : )
On Sep 10, 2006, at 12:35 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: September 9, 2006 8:55:44 PM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Just got a fake "Second Chance" offer on item
230023221493
A very pervasive scam is to send out emails that flawlessly spoof
eBay's emails like "message from seller". Right now I get fake
emails pretending to be comments sent through the eBay system from
an angry buyer/seller almost daily. Like I say, the framing on it
is flawless. It's a direct rip of what eBay's email notices look
like.
The scam is to trick you into clicking on their link to a fake eBay
signin page (also flawless) so you'll give them your eBay username
and password which they can use for fraudulent auction buy/sell
activity.
Actually it's difficult to tell them from real eBay traffic. If
you put your cursor over the link at the bottom of the screen it'll
show what it really links to, often a generic IP# or obviously
incorrect URL (like one with a Czechoslovakian country code). Only
safe thing to do if you see something you need to verify is type
http://www.ebay.com in your browser manually, sign in, and check
your real eBay messages through the Web interface.
Danny
Mark McCurdy wrote:
This is NOT a valid "second chance offer". It directs me to
contact the seller directly which is never done and it's not
listed under my "Not Won" items as a "Second Chance" offer either.
I've had these before, they say to go through the website to buy
it, not contact the seller directly, doubt this is even the
seller, probably someone trying to rip me off
All EVers, BEWARE
Mike Swift
Two things only the people anxiously desire—bread and circuses.
Decimus Junius Juvenalls
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: EV Cal was Re: Freeway Flyer
> That's an intesting data point - my Ranger uses 13-14kw at 50mph,
> weighs ~4900lbs with me in it, and has no tonneau cover, so aero is
> not at its best - despite a Beetle's age, it is still better than a
> truck when it comes to wind resistance, in both Cd and frontal area.
This VW was a low voltage unit drawing higher ampere than normal. Sometime
like a golf cart that barely could drive around 18 holes. To drive up town,
meaning it up grade for at least 10 miles, but have to made 22 stops going
up hill which is a killer.
Most of my driving is in a 2.5 mile radius, which is all slow residential
and shopping center driving which is a lot of stop and go driving. I can
still run four days and still be at 80% SOC.
> Your 180V system needs 170A (>30kw) to maintain 50mph?
This was with the old SCR CableForm Controller when It was driven hours at a
time at that speed with a GE 11.5 inch motor.
Today I am using a Zilla, which my battery amps is now between 30 and 75 and
the motor amps is restricted to 200 amps with a tempory Warp 9 motor that
will be replace by the GE-11.5 motor which is being remanufacture by GE.
> 600wt-hrs/mi. Is this why your EV Album entry has range at 10mph?
The 10 mph is at 90 mph not 50 mph. Today at 50 mph, it should be closer to
75 miles to 10% DOD.
I am running now at 360wt-hrs/mi.
I going to have to up date my EV Album entry when I get my GE back and new
transmission install.
Roland
>
>
>
>
>
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