EV Digest 5890
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Building A Performace EV
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: gears in or out?
by Jeremy Rutman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Local Chapter List Serve
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: So my GE motor arrived
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Strange EV on Ebay
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: So my GE motor arrived
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Connectors - Power Wheels type
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) RE: Building A Performace EV
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Keeping batteries warm during the winter
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Help with Raptor 600 - trying to fix for Renewable Energy show this
weekend
by "Erik Bigelow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Strange EV on Ebay
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Advancing a Prestolite MTA 4001 48V compound motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Building A Performace EV
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by "Dr. Polsinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Advancing a Prestolite MTA 4001 48V compound motor
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Advancing a Prestolite MTA 4001 48V compound motor
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: More pics of the Mathis (not Johnny)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Curtis Controllers
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Curtis Controllers
by "Dr. Polsinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Waylands and Otmars siamese motor config is all over the archives of this
site. Also check out nedra web site and john waylands web site. Just
google them.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of GWMobile
Sent: September 19, 2006 9:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Building A Performace EV
Siamese dc motors?
Two motor rigged to work together?
Got alink?
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 5:38 pm, Don Cameron wrote:
> Don, if you go the Wayland route with siamese DC motors you can exceed
> their performance.
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: September 19, 2006 4:50 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Building A Performace EV
>
>
> I do not expect to have the same performance as either the Fetish or
> the
> Tesla. I am starting with about as much weight as either of the above
> without batteries. Rolling body will weighs 1500 pounds with one motor
> 1700
> with two motors.
>
> Don
>
> In a message dated 9/19/2006 2:16:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Argh! Yes, I was.
>
> Sorry all.
>
> -Mike
>
> On 9/15/06, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Mike Ellis wrote:
>>
>> > At $664,000? Isn't that the price for six Fetishes (Feti?)?
>>
>> No:
>>
>> <http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/venturi_fetish.asp>
>>
>> Lists the Fetish at US$664,000 (540,000 euro)
>>
>> Venturi's own site lists the Fetish at a slightly more economic price
>> of 450,000 euro (US$570,000):
>>
>> <http://www.venturi.fr/us/fetish/posseder/posseder.php3>
>>
>> I suspect you are confusing the Fetish with the US$100k Tesla
>> Roadster.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Roger.
>>
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jeremy,
Do you have a web link for the 20C output from TS batts?
its just the claim on their specs page -
'max discharge current , 100A-600A' for the 30Ah single cell
(2.5V-4.3V) battery,
which should be at
http://www.thunder-sky.com/detal/TS-LMP30AHA.pdf
but isnt currently opening (for me).
they claim 'general discharge' of 15A , 2.8V.
The voltage on TS batts sag like grandma's boobs when delivering high
current.
from what your saying
about grandma's boobs it looks like the internal resistance is tens
of milliohms?
The powerstream PGB120-15 claims 20mOhm, wait actually from
thundersky discharge chart it
looks like you lose .5Volts on increasing from 0.3C to 1C on this
30Ah battery,
which gives .024mOhms. If thats right then 100amps would kill off
2.4volts on internal
resistance, dropping one from something like
3.5Volts at low discharges to 1.5Volts at 100amps...so i wonder what the max
power is if the current falls so drastically with current.
Anyway are other Li ion batteries better? I have been toying with the
idea of lots of
small cells and some 'quality time' with the puntzweiss spotwelder,
so I ordered a test sample of 500Wh worth of the 1.8Ah HLP103463 for
a friend's ebike from huanyu battery.
Watch out for these guys!!! They kindly took my dough after a lengthy
wrangle about shipping costs,
where we had finally settled on sea freight for 30$....then after
getting my dough they changed
their tune, asking for $200 air shipping on a $170 order since they
suddenly discovered that
li ion is dangerous cargo and cant be sea-shipped...like air shipping
is better for dangerous cargo?!?!?!?
I asked for the money back and now dont get replies from
them...anyone know any lawyers in shenzen province?
I know this because I have a set of TS 100Ah batts powering my Clubman.
TS batts are the lithium equivalent of golf cart batteries - high energy
storage but low power output.
ok thats good to know
I still suggest you leave the gearbox in.
Once you know how the car performs you can decide whether you still need
the gears or not.
yeh that seems like a prudent idear
Some people use a standard gearbox and lock it in a particular gear,
removing the gear stick.
(AC Propulsion's Tzero uses a Honda gearbox locked in 2nd.)
yeh the ac42 has a fixed 10:1 gearbox that they (used to) sell separately
i guess solectria is now out of business or bought up or in-cubation
waiting for oil to hit $100 or something. in any case it seems
like if i just get the solectria ac1200 gearbox or otherwise arrange for 10:1
fixed total reduction i'll be okay with no further gears.
Mark
jeremy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yahoo groups is beginning to be problematic.
They are shutting down some lists for political reasons and starting to
do things like filtering emails etc. they are extremely hard to search
through the archives as well.
They are after all a corporation and sometimes corporations do things
for reasons other than the good of their customers especially if they
are bought out. If you trust the list to them your access to it in the
future may be compromized.
I would use a independent true listserve.
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 2:07 am, Mike Willmon wrote:
Whats the best method to set up a local chapter list serve. Are there
free ones that are acceptable? Any reason not to run a Yahoo
Group for a small group of 100 people? How well do different services
handle growth?
Thanks for any input. I have been, so far, maintaining the privacy of
the e-mail list I've generated from peoples interest. We are
getting to the point where EVeryone on the list wants to talk to each
other and I don't know wether to make the list public and
stop Bcc: everyone, or set up a Yahoo Group. What say?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are those temp leads going into the brushes?
--- Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The insides of the motor has a layer of grime on it as can be expected
> but there doesn't appear to be any rust.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/247926026/
>
> That's all for now.
>
> -Peter
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is not an NEV. This is a Mercedes Smart Car. They sell them in Canada
with diesel engines. Quite capable of 60mph, and allowed on all roads,
highways and freeways.
Now whether it is an ebay scam or not...
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: September 19, 2006 8:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Strange EV on Ebay
It is a NEV neighborhood electric vehicle. It does not look like a scam but
nothing to get excited about either. A street legal golf cart lights wipers
horn turnsignals. It cannot go over 25 miles an hour and not on roads with
posted speed limits of 35 mph.
Don
In a message dated 9/19/2006 7:10:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I've decided that this is a scam. The seller has two available, only
wants cashiers check or money order, and the same person with zero
feedback is bidding on both.
Dr. Polsinelli wrote:
> Number 270030658247
>
> Anyone have any information on this? Think it's street legal?
>
> *http://tinyurl.com/rkbk9*
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mountain Motors in Loveland Colorado has 8 of these Smart Cars on their lot.
I have seen several of these vehicles running on the street/highway (flowing
with traffic well at 65 MPH)and at least one is owned by one of the local
independent electric utilities. You may want to call this vendor to get an
idea
of the street price.
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council (DEVC)
1994 Kawasaki Ninja EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Dave, All
Those wires are just brush wear indicators. It's a wire run into the brush
where when the brush wears down and makes contact with the comm it scraps the
insulation off the wire and makes contact with the comm and makes a light
lightup to tell you to replace the brushes
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Are those temp leads going into the brushes?
--- Peter Gabrielsson
wrote:
>
> The insides of the motor has a layer of grime on it as can be expected
> but there doesn't appear to be any rust.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/247926026/
>
> That's all for now.
>
> -Peter
>
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2ยข/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am implementing parallel charging using 3 amp CC Soniel chargers. After a
trip to my local battery wholesale house to ask about suitable connectors they
gave me a couple of ones that had been cut off of the Power Wheel EVs that
children ride on the sidewalk. These connectors are about the right size,
were designed to handle up to 15 amps, and the connectors snap together nicely
for my module needs.
I searched the archives and found a number of related discussions, however
didn't find if there is a source for these connectors. Did anyone on the list
find a source to buy these Power Wheels type connectors? I need a total of 18
to finish my project.
Thanks,
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council (DEVC)
1994 Kawasaki Ninja EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Smart dealer that I spoke with indicated that no electric versions have
been sold in the US only in Europe. So how does the seller on ebay explain how
they got it imported and licensed?
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council (DEVC)
1994 Kawasaki Ninja EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mike, all
Thanks Mike,
There is a lot of difference between a dual or tandom motor setup and whats
been dubbed the Siamese motor. Like 7" and 28 lbs. in fact 8^)
There was talk last year when it first ran as to whether it's now one or two
motors still, I believe it is now a single dual comm'ed motor(yes they make
dual comm'ed motors). Although it took a lot to create it, I in fact could
seperate it back to two motors in about 2 hours. Don't know why one would want
to but press the arms off and install the OEM shafts and put the second drive
plate back on. Heck I still have the other plate laying around somewhere in
the shop. I have used the old shafts as spoils of war and have installed them
into daily driver motors and they still live as EV shaft for others 8^P
Anyway I just had to chime in here to say making it was hard, pasting it back
into two would be cake work!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not just rigged to work together as in a mechanical coupling, married on the
shaft (kinda like some of us). In fact same shaft
and minus one endplate in between them. As John Wayland points out Siamese
motors can't easily be separated if one day you want
to put them in two different cars. Much like the delicate surgery they do on
real siamese twins. See John's photo album. Jim
Husted did some excellent artwork.
http://photos.plasmaboyracing.com/buildsequence
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> GWMobile wrote:
>
> Siamese dc motors?
> Two motor rigged to work together?
>
> Got alink?
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small
Business.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The coldest my batteries that have even been, was at 60 degrees F. when it
was 35 degrees below 0.
They are in a non-conductive double insulated box with dead air space around
the sides and passive solar gain air space above the battery covers.
My 1977 El Camino bed is insulated with Dow Corning foam blue board that is
rated at 25 lbs per square inch and 10 R-factor.
The sides of the bed has 2 inches of foam and the bottom is 1 inch. This is
then cover with a dark blue marine rug.
The battery box, made out of epoxy coated 1/4 fiberglass is all insulated
with 2 inches of foam on the sides and 1 inch on the bottom and also cover
with the marine rug.
The battery box has 6 inch air space on the sides, 2 inch air space in the
front and 1/2 inch air space to a equipment compartment that is place in the
rear next to the tail gate.
The hinge covers are just cover with the marine rug and has a 6 to 18 inch
air space below a glass panel that is made into a custom hinge hatch.
You can see this installation at:
http.//www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html
Normally it gets that cold, it is a clear day, that there is no clouds to
hold in the heat. So at 35 below, I park the EV with the glass hatch facing
the sun. The air space above the battery box will be between 80 and 90
degrees.
If its cloudy, the temperature is normally at 0 degrees, and I was able to
maintain a 60 degrees temperature after the EV has been park outside for 8
hours.
Another thing that keeps temperature up inside the battery box, is that I
keep it park in a heated super insulated garage. The wall R-factor is 78.
The ceiling R-Factor is 136. And the garage door is a R-Factor of 19 which
is triple seal.
A 5 kw electric ceiling mounted heater and 2.5 kw radient ceiling is used.
I keep it a constant 70 degrees temperature and if its 30 degrees or below,
these heating units go to 80 degrees and there is battery box fans that
bring in this warm air.
The whole inside of the cab is at 80 degrees or more with the assisted of
2500 watt heating units in the EV that preheat the EV before 15 minutes of
departure.
Here is a formula to determine how much insulation you need to maintain a
certain temperature.
BTUR's = SF x u x TD
SF = is the square foot area on all the surfaces
that is between the inside area you want to
heat and the outside ambient air.
u = 1/R or 1 divided by the R factor.
TD = Temperature Difference between the outside
ambient air and the inside space you want to
maintain a certain temperature.
Example:
Lets say we want to maintain a 100 degrees Temperature Difference for 70
degrees above to 30 degrees above, so TD=100
The R-Factor of foam is 5 R's per inch, in this case I will use 4 inches or
20 R-Factor.
The U-Factor is 1/20 = 0.05
The SF of the material that is between the outside and inside areas. I will
use 70 SF for my battery box.
Therefore:
Btur's = SF x u x TD
= 70 x 0.05 x 100
= 350
You will then loss 350 btu's per hour and in 8-hours I would loss about 8 x
350 = 2800 btus.
I fine this to be about 2.5 degrees per hour.
A electric heater provides 3412 btus per 1000 watt heater, so if I want to
maintain 70 degrees inside my battery box, I would need a 3412/8 = 426.5
btur heater or 1000 wt/8 = 125 watt heater.
At one time, I use KAT's battery blankets, that I wrap the outside of the
battery back, that is inserted in a 1/2 inch space between the battery pack
and the battery box.
This type of battery blanket works good when I did not have the insulation
as I do now.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Polsinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:12 PM
Subject: Keeping batteries warm during the winter
> I live in Cleveland and am finally getting my converted mazda this
> week. I understand that if the batteries are kept warm that the range
> is kept during the winter. For those of you in colder climates, what
> are you doing to keep the batteries warm and range up?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I
I opened the Raptor last night and took some pictures inside the controller.
I'm not a EE, but I only found a couple of spots that didn't look as they
should:
http://picasaweb.google.com/electricbasset/Raptor
It looks like the traces have corroded in each picture, the left outer trace
on the first one and the right outer trace on the second. The copper around
the Big Red Thing (rated in KJ? no idea what this is) in the first picture
also doesn't look great. The board is conformally coated as best I can tell.
I was thinking of soldering a wire around these two corroded spots and
seeing if the problems go away. Sound reasonable?
Aside from that I can't see anything wrong and it's looking like an
expensive paper weight.
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Help with Raptor 600
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:53:05 -0600
Message-ID: <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I seem to recall something about jumpering two of the pins together on
certain models of the Raptor 600... I think Rich Rudman may have details
on that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Bath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Help with Raptor 600
Hi Erik,
I hope you're using the schematic for it. If
nobody else gives it to you, get me a fax number, and
I'll do so.
Pin 1 and 2 throttle.
Pin 3 tac
Pin 4 contactor
Pin 5 Ingition +
Pin 6 Ignition -
Pin 7 Shift blanking (unused for me)
Pin 8 Tac 1
Pin 9 LBI (unused for me)
Pin 10 5A, 250 V fuse, then to the HV traction pack.
Hope this "Gits 'er dun!"
TTYL,
--- Erik Bigelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been really working at getting my EV working
> for the Renewable Energy
> Roundup in Fredericksburg, TX this coming weekend.
> I'm working with a used
> Raptor 600, and it isn't pulling the contactor in.
> I'm holding out the hope
> that there might be someone who knows these well.
> Here's the details as far
> as I can tell:
>
> The pack is connected correctly, as I measure ~128V
> (16*8V) at the pack side
> of the contactor
> The controller fan comes on
> Without the Green/Yellow/Red LED gizmo plugged in,
> there is a yellow light
> on the controller right above the spot where the GYR
> LED gizmo goes into the
> controller.
> With the GYR LED gizmo plugged in, the green and
> yellow lights light up, and
> one wire is cut in the bundle, so I assume so far
> this is the wire for the
> red LED, which is not lit.
>
> Also, does anyone have a pinout diagram for the
> green connector on the
> front? Some of the lettering on mine is rubbed off,
> which might be making
> this hard.
>
> Any other general info about them would be much
> appreciated! I'm ready for
> the EV grin!
>
> Thanks
>
> Erik
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It could have been imported as an ICE then converted to electric.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: September 20, 2006 6:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Strange EV on Ebay
The Smart dealer that I spoke with indicated that no electric versions have
been sold in the US only in Europe. So how does the seller on ebay explain
how they got it imported and licensed?
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council (DEVC)
1994 Kawasaki Ninja EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Alternatively (and much easier) the brushes contact the commutator exactly
in line with the centerline of the field pole bolts at neutral position,
but that may be hard to judge.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
Hey James
There are probably lots of technical ways to find abulute neutral but for
most here this is mute. The best easiest way to tell if the motor is set to
neutral or has been advanced is to compare them to the pole shoe mounting bolts
located on the side of the motor housing. The pole shoes bolts are located on
the side of the housing with just the bolt head exposed. If you look down
lengthwise at the motor, those bolt heads should line up in-line with where the
brushes hit the comm. Some brushes are angled so look where they hit the comm
and not where they sit higher up. Anyway just thought I'd describe what James
was talking about here.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It does appear like an "electric" smart of sorts. There is no exhaust pipes in
the normal areas. Depending on the conversion, everything can be hidden below
the tail and under the car.
Several issues: 75 mile range would be lithium solution. It <* could *> be for
real. There is a company in UK working on a few. The description on the car is
wrong. No automatic transmission, 55 mph top speed doesn't match any of the
conversions being done. Most are either 63 mph or 75 mph top speed (gearing or
electronic limited). Maintenance free battery listed - but not described, it
may be the propulsion or the house battery. I zoomed, but couldn't view the
insignia on the back.
However:
1) The car is not located in the US according to the pictures
2) The car has not been converted for US Specifications
3) An electric Smart are not currently allowed under Smart import
specifications.
Anyone in US and Canada should be very concerned about it.
Concerning #3, the importer cannot get EPA clearance on a SmartEV because EPA
needs it for testing. NHTSA may require additional crashing based on batteries.
(These requirements are different than those vehicles built in the US). Since
no one has stepped up to provide these vehicles to EPA/NHTSA, they cannot be
imported as EVs.
Pictures were stages on side of road without plates.
(Of course, you can get gas one and convert without a problem)
I did send messages to the user.
Peter
www.smartev.us
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Don Cameron wrote:
Waylands and Otmars siamese motor config is all over the archives of this
site.
Small correction...Oat's car does not use a siamesed 8 motor, rather, it
uses two separate 8 inch motors mounted onto an aluminum plate that are
coupled with a special high performance belt. The setup has the motors
mounted vertically one over the other that keeps the length short and
work out perfectly for the confines of their midship location in this car.
Siamese dc motors?
Two motor rigged to work together?
No, what was originally two separate motors is now one motor with the
best qualities of two motors. The Siamese 8 has an extra-long stainless
steel shaft (thanks to Dutchman Motorsports machine shop) with two
armatures and a center fan and bearing pressed onto it. The armatures
are mounted head-to-head with their coms and brushes at each end of the
motor. The heavy duty splined shaft end comes out one of the brush end
bells through a machined bearing receiver plate. The two frames of each
motor with their respective field coils were modified and machined two
mate together with a center aluminum section. This special motor is 7
inches shorter than the two 8's were when they were mounted on a custom
bracket with their shafts end-to-end with a center (and problematic)
shaft coupler. Minus the weight of the external bracket that the dual
motors were secured to and minus the shaft coupler, the Siamese 8 is
about 24 lbs. lighter...shorter and lighter were both goals for the new
motor for my car. Lots of special interior motor details like the
routing and positioning of high current cables and conductors, the
thickness of the cables and conductors, the number of conductors,
reshaping of parts and special insulation techniques to combat high
voltage high rpm flash-over, plus hand-timed armatures that were
specially wrapped, glued, baked, and set up for high rpm integrity, were
all details learned from years of blowing up motors during racing, that
Jim, Tim, The Dutchman, and I employed in the creation of this powerful
and robust electric drag motor.
Credit is due to all who were involved, with the master motor builder
title certainly going to Jim Husted...the man's work is artistry!
See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey James
Well see, now you have your first taste as to a shunted coil (which is what I
call your type) as compared to a compound wound coil. I too would like to know
what if any difference there would be between this setup compared to spliting
all the windings into all four poles compared to two seperate shunt and series
coils. I believe it's the same and in fact like the shunt version better as
it's easier to work on compared to a coil with both wire types wound all
together. You to should find it easier to seperate the wire into seperate
terminals.
I believe slotting the CE plate with 30 degree slots would weaken the plate a
lot, but may not weaken it enough to prevent it from being done. Just don't
mount the plate to the frame anywhere. If the DE plate has a locked in bearing
then there would be no front thrust and you'd have no worries mate. More on
this later cause I got to get moving.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
G'day All
Well, I got the motor stripped down, and all is not as I expected. As it
is, the motor has two terminals, 4 brushes, 4 field poles. The fields are
as follows:
Shunt field is connected straight from one terminal to the other, series
field connects from one terminal to one brush pair, the other brush pair to
the other terminal. However, there are two series fields, and two shunt
fields (each pair opposite each other).
I hadn't considered that it would be made this way, although it makes
economic sense for the manufacturer to have a single wire type on each
pole. I had anticipated that the shunt field would be wound on top of or
underneath the series field. Would the motor be more efficient with the
fields wound with half the turns of shunt wire, and half the turns of
series wire?
It's come to pieces easily, now to bead blast all the bits and make up the
adjustable brush gear (hopefully +15 to -15 degrees, but that'd be 4 slots
30 degrees long, possibly weakening the CE plate too much) and brush
connections, fit the extra terminals, paint it and put it back together. I
like yellow, so it'll probably be golden yellow along the tube and clear
lacquer on the aluminium bits.
Jim Husted has sent me off-list some pics of an alternative way of making
up the cross-bars between the brush holders (thanks, Jim), although
adjustable brush gear may make it so as I can't do it that way.
I'm thinking of fitting a blower by putting an aluminium plate between the
motor tube and the CE plate, machined both sides to pick up the locating
step. Blower off to one side, a back plate off the end of the motor and a
side cover all the way around to make the air go into the motor. If I do
this I can bring flexible cables out through the brush windows and have
more depth behind the brush ring to mount the adjuster plate.
As always, all comments apreciated.
regards
[Technik] James
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I first saw them (there are two for sale by seller), he had a 10k
buy it now. That seemed low even for a converted smart.
~Michael
Don Cameron wrote:
It could have been imported as an ICE then converted to electric.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: September 20, 2006 6:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Strange EV on Ebay
The Smart dealer that I spoke with indicated that no electric versions have
been sold in the US only in Europe. So how does the seller on ebay explain
how they got it imported and licensed?
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council (DEVC)
1994 Kawasaki Ninja EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is the contact point considered the leading edge of the brush? Centerline?
Trailing edge?
Does this apply to ADC motors also?
Dave Cover
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alternatively (and much easier) the brushes contact the commutator exactly
> in line with the centerline of the field pole bolts at neutral position,
> but that may be hard to judge.
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you look
> down lengthwise at the motor, those bolt heads should line up in-line with
> where the brushes hit
> the comm. Some brushes are angled so look where they hit the comm and not
> where they sit higher
> up.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eyeballing brush neutral with these Prestolite motors is difficult due to the
angle brush holders. Brushes were angled to reduce chatter, give longer brush
and larger contact area. Direction of rotation is not affected by angle, does
well either way.
Proper way to find neutral brush allignment is a method called kick neutral
where armature only is engerized. A slight twist of the shaft will induce
rotation which will be self substained due to the armature field itself. The
neutral point is found when CW and CCW efforts and rotation are equal. When
brushes are off neutral, this kick or twist will favor one direction or other.
Of course this applies to motors with well seated brushes and symetrical pole
shoes(which most of the motors of concern use).
All of this is unnecessary with the Prestolite 7 inch motors. One can easily
tell by looking at the die cast aluminum comm end bell. There are recesses for
the bolt heads that attach it to the frame. Provision there for a neutral
position (in the middle) or 4.5 degrees one way or the other. Most Prestolite
7 inch motors made for unidirectional applications incorporated this 4.5 degree
shift. Remember that with these 4 pole motors, a 4.5 degree mechanical shift
is a 9 degree electrical shift. Optimum shift angle depends on load current
and field strength. The armature field is in quadrature with the main field.
This tends to strengthen one pole tip and weaken the other. This distorts the
main field asymetrically and moves the zero crossover point between north and
south poles effectively inducing voltage on the armature conductor being
commutated. The 4.5 degree Prestolite shift was found to be a reasonable
compromise for the various applications for these
motors. Most were 72 volts or lower. Running these at higher voltages may
risk brush arcing with the 4.5 degree shift. But some of the angles being
tossed about sound excessive. Another thing to realize is that by shifting
brush position, you are field weakening the motor which reduces torque per amp.
Good luck to you guys,
Jeff
Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
James Massey wrote:
Alternatively (and much easier) the brushes contact the commutator exactly
in line with the centerline of the field pole bolts at neutral position,
but that may be hard to judge.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
Hey James
There are probably lots of technical ways to find abulute neutral but for most
here this is mute. The best easiest way to tell if the motor is set to neutral
or has been advanced is to compare them to the pole shoe mounting bolts located
on the side of the motor housing. The pole shoes bolts are located on the side
of the housing with just the bolt head exposed. If you look down lengthwise at
the motor, those bolt heads should line up in-line with where the brushes hit
the comm. Some brushes are angled so look where they hit the comm and not where
they sit higher up. Anyway just thought I'd describe what James was talking
about here.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: More pics of the Mathis (not Johnny)
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > http://www.3wheelers.com/mathis.html
> >
http://automobile.nouvelobs.com/mag/retromobile_2005/galerie5/galerie.asp
>
> My, what a pretty little car! Too bad the Sparrow didn't turn out this
nice!
> -- You Bet! THAT's a nice ahead of it's time car! Gees! You COULD round
off the back of the Freedom, to look like that and make it a hatchback, so
ya STILL could bring home the groceries!I'll bet Mathis has a decent CD,
too??Jerry? Did ya look at this one?
My 3 wheels worth?
Bob
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 9/19/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
Yup, it's dead. Sigh! WHO fixes them, I mean other than exchanging it for a
new one at New One prices. I didn't just tear it apart, as I wouldn't know WHAT
to fix, if I DID take it apart.It died without a wimper, not in the traditional
ball of fire and fun run at full throttle.Golf tek? Yeah? wait a few years for
a fix. Noooo, If some shop would/could FIX what is the matter, for less than
several mortgage payments? I hate to use up my Rapture on as low performance
car.Wanna put that in the Jetta I'm doing.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was just reading the Ev America catalog. In it they say that they
sometimes have rebuilt ones sometimes for sale. You may want to contact
them: http://www.ev-america.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi EVerybody;
Yup, it's dead. Sigh! WHO fixes them, I mean other than exchanging it for a
new one at New One prices. I didn't just tear it apart, as I wouldn't know WHAT
to fix, if I DID take it apart.It died without a wimper, not in the traditional
ball of fire and fun run at full throttle.Golf tek? Yeah? wait a few years for
a fix. Noooo, If some shop would/could FIX what is the matter, for less than
several mortgage payments? I hate to use up my Rapture on as low performance
car.Wanna put that in the Jetta I'm doing.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Compound motors have series field coils and shunt field coils. For all
practical purposes, there is no difference in the magnetics wheather the shunt
and series are on each pole (together) or on separate poles. The coils,
magnetically speaking, are in series so the mmf's (or amp-turns) add, either
way. The separate coils are obviously easier build, less cost. But some
compound motor designs require more or less of the shunt versus series, so the
coil size difference becomes problematic and they are wound together to go on
the same pole. Other design considerations for the choice is thermal
management. Some motors only use a field coil on one pole and none on the
other (of the pole pair). The pole without the coil is called a consequent
pole. This is the way some slpit series motors operate.
Jeff
Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey James
Well see, now you have your first taste as to a shunted coil (which is what I
call your type) as compared to a compound wound coil. I too would like to know
what if any difference there would be between this setup compared to spliting
all the windings into all four poles compared to two seperate shunt and series
coils. I believe it's the same and in fact like the shunt version better as
it's easier to work on compared to a coil with both wire types wound all
together. You to should find it easier to seperate the wire into seperate
terminals.
I believe slotting the CE plate with 30 degree slots would weaken the plate a
lot, but may not weaken it enough to prevent it from being done. Just don't
mount the plate to the frame anywhere. If the DE plate has a locked in bearing
then there would be no front thrust and you'd have no worries mate. More on
this later cause I got to get moving.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
James Massey wrote:
G'day All
Well, I got the motor stripped down, and all is not as I expected. As it
is, the motor has two terminals, 4 brushes, 4 field poles. The fields are
as follows:
Shunt field is connected straight from one terminal to the other, series
field connects from one terminal to one brush pair, the other brush pair to
the other terminal. However, there are two series fields, and two shunt
fields (each pair opposite each other).
I hadn't considered that it would be made this way, although it makes
economic sense for the manufacturer to have a single wire type on each
pole. I had anticipated that the shunt field would be wound on top of or
underneath the series field. Would the motor be more efficient with the
fields wound with half the turns of shunt wire, and half the turns of
series wire?
It's come to pieces easily, now to bead blast all the bits and make up the
adjustable brush gear (hopefully +15 to -15 degrees, but that'd be 4 slots
30 degrees long, possibly weakening the CE plate too much) and brush
connections, fit the extra terminals, paint it and put it back together. I
like yellow, so it'll probably be golden yellow along the tube and clear
lacquer on the aluminium bits.
Jim Husted has sent me off-list some pics of an alternative way of making
up the cross-bars between the brush holders (thanks, Jim), although
adjustable brush gear may make it so as I can't do it that way.
I'm thinking of fitting a blower by putting an aluminium plate between the
motor tube and the CE plate, machined both sides to pick up the locating
step. Blower off to one side, a back plate off the end of the motor and a
side cover all the way around to make the air go into the motor. If I do
this I can bring flexible cables out through the brush windows and have
more depth behind the brush ring to mount the adjuster plate.
As always, all comments apreciated.
regards
[Technik] James
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small
Business.
--- End Message ---
