EV Digest 5891
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Xebra EV is coming to the SV EAA Rally, Sept. 30th Palo Alto HS
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: source for drive pulleys and belts
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Etiquette Question about the EV Discussion List
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Local Chapter List Serve
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Local Chapter List Serve
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Local Chapter List Serve
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Battery Balancing (was: Etiquette Question)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica NY
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Sparrow efficiency, was Re: Powercheq
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: So my GE motor arrived
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery Balancing (was: Etiquette Question)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) RE: Strange EV on Ebay
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: So my GE motor arrived
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: So my GE motor arrived
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: article: Electric Harley
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Advancing a Prestolite MTA 4001 48V compound motor
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: source for drive pulleys and belts
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Connectors - Power Wheels type
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Sparrow efficiency, was Re: Powercheq
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Help with Raptor 600 - trying to fix for Renewable Energy show this
weekend
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: gears in or out?
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Calif. sues carmakers over global warming
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Calif. sues carmakers over global warming
by "Dr. Polsinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Help with Raptor 600 - trying to fix for Renewable Energy show
this weekend
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Connectors - Power Wheels type
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Pole
by "EV2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Help with Raptor 600 - trying to fix for Renewable Energy show
this weekend
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
My thanks to all of those that contacted ZAP asking them to bring
the Xebra EV to the Silicon Valley EAA Rally, Sept. 30th 10a-4p at
Palo Alto High School http://eaasv.org
Because I just heard that ZAP is coming and the SV EAA Chapter is
reserving a booth for ZAP and an adjoining parking space that will
accommodate one Xebra EV for display purposes.
ZAP will not be participating in the Rally route, only displaying
the Xebra. So actually riding in the Xebra will not be at the
show, but I am sure a ride can be arranged at the any of the
Xebra dealers.
I hope to get some under the hood Xebra images so the EV community
can see what EV components the Xebra is using. This will help
determine a real-life performance/range that can planned on, the
cost, capacity, and cycle life of the battery pack, and recharging
times and types of power the charger will run off of.
See you there :-)
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hadn't heard of these -- have you used them?
Philippe Borges wrote:
just to let you know contitech synchropower belts are promisive Gates
"killer"
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mick Abraham wrote:
May I ask the List members' opinions on the active battery equalizer
from Smart Spark Energy Systems called BattEQ? Let me know if you
think this Post would be OK, as I think this contribution to the
discussion would be helpful to your List members.
This is right on-topic for this list. The only issue is that you're a
dealer for this product; and you dealt with it by identifying yourself
as such.
The BattEQ devices are capacitive charge balancers, which have been
extensively discussed on this list. They've been around a very long
time; longer than the patents (the patent office checking of "prior art"
has been poor in recent years, so almost anything can be patented if the
language is obscure enough).
They work, but not very well. The main problem with capacitive balancers
is that they move a negligible number of amphours. The peak current can
indeed be high; but it only flows for a VERY brief time. They can
advertise a high current ("up to 6 amps"), but if you put an ammeter in
series, you'll find that this is the peak for less than one second; the
continuous average current is far less than one amp.
A second and minor problem is that the efficiency claims of capacitive
balancers are considerably exaggerated. Their theoretical efficiency is
high; but the actual efficiency is low. This happens because they use an
RC network to transfer charge. C is the flying capacitor. R is the
equivalent resistance of the capacitor, switches, and all the wiring and
related components. When you measure the efficiency, it turns out to be
low; most of the power being transferred is dissipated in R (no matter
what the value of R).
Background
The fundamental balancing problem is that real batteries do not all have
the same amphour capacity or charge/discharge efficiency. After one
charge/discharge cycle, the state of charge of new high-quality
well-balanced batteries will differ by 1-2%. This is worse if the
batteries are poorly made, or from different production batches, It also
gets worse as the batteries age, or are at different temperatures, etc.
If the charger doesn't equalize (deliberately overcharge), then each
successive charge/discharge cycle increases this difference. Eventually,
the imbalance will be so large that one battery runs dead early and is
damaged. Undercharging can kill the weakest battery in less than 100 cycles.
So, battery chargers deliberately overcharge. This depends on the best
batteries not being damaged (much) by the overcharging, so that the
weaker ones will have time to reach "full". It results in "pounding
down" the best batteries to match the weaker ones, so the pack as a
whole lasts longer. Normal overcharging is assumed to get the
manufacturer's specified BCI battery life.
Overcharging works adequately with simpler flooded batteries. But newer
higher-capacity batteries are more sensitive to overcharging.
Overcharging them causes a significant reduction in life. Sealed
lead-acids suffer from water loss and grid corrosion. Nimh will overheat
and sit at high pressure, also causing water loss. Lithiums will
decompose, and even burn or explode! The key to long life with *these*
batteries is not to overcharge any more than absolutely necessary.
So, balancing boils down to a) knowing how many amphours apart the
various batteries have drifted, and b) adding or removing amphours from
each battery individually, to bring them all back to the same level.
Almost all balancers blindly use voltage as the only indicator of state
of charge. This is a poor method, but cheap and easy.
There are many methods to transfer charge. Some put a resistor across
the higher battery, to bring its SOC down to match the rest. Some charge
the low battery, to bring its SOC up to match the rest. Some do both;
move charge from the higher to the lower batteries.
Ultimately, all that matters is how many amphours you need to move, and
whether you have enough time to move them at whatever current the
balancer can provide.
Resistive regulators (Rudman, BatPro, or my Zener-Lamp regulators) do
nothing most of the time, and move (remove) 0.5-2 amps from the highest
battery for 1-2 hours at the end of a charge cycle. They typically
handle 1-2 amphours of imbalance per charge cycle.
DC/DC converter based balancers (Badicheq, PowerCheq, or my Battery
Balancer) are typically active most of the time. They move 2-30 amps
peak, and can average 2-10 amphours per day.
Capacitive balancers work all the time, but at very low average current.
They are typically under 0.1 amps, but that can move up to 2.4 amphours
per day. So, they fall somewhere in between resistive regulators and
DC/DC converter-based balancers.
On your comments on the PowerCheq vs. BattEQ websites: I find that
battery related product claims are 99.94% pure marketing hype. It's
mostly technobabble, unverifiable tests, unsupported testimonials, wild
exaggerations, drastic oversimplifications, and often outright lies.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
Shunt field is connected straight from one terminal to the other, series
field connects from one terminal to one brush pair, the other brush pair
to the other terminal. However, there are two series fields, and two
shunt fields (each pair opposite each other).
So the four field poles are alternately series-shunt-series-shunt?
That's cheap but not good. In effect, it will run like two motors (one
shunt, one series) on a common shaft. It will be fine when the
ampere-turns of the two fields are equal. At other speeds, it will
behave like half the motor is dead weight.
I'll bet someone did a quick-and-dirty repair on this motor at some point.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Nikki,
I have followed plenty of Yahooo groups and it really is cumbersome, not sure I
want to have to keep track of one. There are a couple other simple list serves
I'm on. I'll try to figure out where to set one of those up.
Not so many block heaters in Anchorage as I would like, however one of our
members just got his truck on the road for the first time yesterday in
Fairbanks and they have block heaters (I mean charging stations :-) lining the
parking lots.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:16 am
Subject: Re: Local Chapter List Serve
To: [email protected]
> Hi Mike,
>
> I use Yahoo Groups for the BEVOB group. It's fine as long as the
> people involved are comfortable with using web-based content as
> well
> as just email based content.
>
> BEVOB now has 40 members and it's all seemed quite easy at the
> moment. Google Groups are growing still and are in the Beta
> phase.
> Perhaps it's an idea to keep an eye on them for a while to see
> what
> the finished product looks like?
>
> So you're doing an AK group? Cewl! I guess you can all use block
> heater points to charge eh?
>
> Good luck
> Nikki.
>
>
>
> www.multiphonikks.com
>
>
> On 20 Sep 2006, at 09:36, Mike Willmon wrote:
>
> > Whats the best method to set up a local chapter list serve. Are
> > there free ones that are acceptable? Any reason not to run a Yahoo
> > Group for a small group of 100 people? How well do different
> > services handle growth?
> > Thanks for any input. I have been, so far, maintaining the
> privacy
> > of the e-mail list I've generated from peoples interest. We are
> > getting to the point where EVeryone on the list wants to talk to
>
> > each other and I don't know wether to make the list public and
> > stop Bcc: everyone, or set up a Yahoo Group. What say?
> > Mike,
> > Anchorage, Ak.
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yahoo groups are easy to start with but their are limitations
as was already POSTed. They do have some nice web based
features, but there is the constant and continuous spammer
attacks of public groups that eat up your time to kept the
group clean and focused.
I have several yahoo groups I maintain. One of the groups I
started rav4_ev , the members were used to the formal mail
list the EV1 club had and not happy at all with Yahoo group's
issues and limitations.
They set up, and moved themselves to
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/rav4-ev
You may want to take a look at
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/
for examples of other lists that host offeres.
For your Chapter discussion purposes:
Perhaps you should poll your potential users to find out what
they will be technically comfortable with and what they need as
far as a discussion list/group goes.
Some newbies find Yahoo groups fairly easy to use, and others
find a formal listserv a bit too difficult for them to know what
to do or how to make a listserv work for them. If you have strong
need to get a group up and running quickly, you may want to
consider starting with a Yahoo group for now.
Good Luck :-)
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not familiar with the host that Bruce is advocating, but I'll put
in my two watts in favor of mailman in general. I admin dozens of
mailman lists (mostly on my own servers and my employer's servers) and
I can vouch for what a great list management tool mailman is. It has
a few drawbacks but honestly it's about as easy as it gets while
having all of the functionality most list owners and subscribers need.
Matt
On 9/20/06, bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yahoo groups are easy to start with but their are limitations
as was already POSTed. They do have some nice web based
features, but there is the constant and continuous spammer
attacks of public groups that eat up your time to kept the
group clean and focused.
I have several yahoo groups I maintain. One of the groups I
started rav4_ev , the members were used to the formal mail
list the EV1 club had and not happy at all with Yahoo group's
issues and limitations.
They set up, and moved themselves to
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/rav4-ev
You may want to take a look at
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/
for examples of other lists that host offeres.
For your Chapter discussion purposes:
Perhaps you should poll your potential users to find out what
they will be technically comfortable with and what they need as
far as a discussion list/group goes.
Some newbies find Yahoo groups fairly easy to use, and others
find a formal listserv a bit too difficult for them to know what
to do or how to make a listserv work for them. If you have strong
need to get a group up and running quickly, you may want to
consider starting with a Yahoo group for now.
Good Luck :-)
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 20 Sep 2006 at 10:01, Lee Hart wrote:
> The fundamental balancing problem is that real batteries do not all have the
> same amphour capacity or charge/discharge efficiency.
Indeed, not all CELLS have the same capacity or efficiency! Balancing a
pack at the module (battery) level is better than nothing, but you'll always
need some equalization to balance the individual cells within each module.
Despite this, in real world use, balancing devices have indeed demonstrated
some utility. I think the reason is that most conversion EVs don't maintain a
consistent temperature for all the modules - often they're scattered under the
hood, under the back seat, in the trunk, etc. If the battery were one big tray
under the car with good thermal management, I suspect that module-level
balancing would be less significant, at least for lead batteries.
But then I'm not an engineer ...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"How to buy one?"
I have been working on a community project to answer that question. If there is
a local chapter of the EAA in your area, get together with the chapter and its
webmeister. What you want to do is create a page of *local* resources- people
who have done conversions, local garages that will do the work, where to get
conversion kits, and where to get actual finished EVs- that sort of thing.
I imagine eventually what is a community effort will in time have the ability
to be a money-making venture- for example a cooperative or other business
structure that offers conversions or dealership services to the buying public.
If a company that does conversions, a copperative structure is a good idea as
the buyer would then join the co-op. Others who have joined earlier could then
be resources also.
-Ralph
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:38:50 -0400
"Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike Young brought his Solectria EV to Utica, NY Munson Williams Proctor Art
> Institute where they showed the film "Who Killed the Electric Car" Both Mike
> & I stayed after the performance and handed out literature and answered
> questions. In fact, last Wednesday afternoon, September 13 Mike Young was
> interviewed by the local NBC television station, WKTV and this story was
> aired during the 5 PM news that afternoon.
>
> Link to the interview I put up at youtube:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKPepScT8vM<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKPepScT8vM>
>
> I have one frustration I was not sure how to handle properly while answering
> questions and promoting EV's: When I was asked, "So where can I buy one" I
> had difficulty answering that question satisfactorily as there are few if any
> manufacturers of EV's available to the general public.
>
> Suffice to say, there was a modest turn out at these showings of WKTEC
>
> Don B. Davidson III
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Rome, NY 13440
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:36 PM 9/19/2006, Death to All Spammers wrote:
What is the watt-hrs/mi for a Sparrow? If you went by Bill Dube's
formula that 600lb of lead-acid = 1 gallon of gas, and knowing the
Sparrow pack is just under 600lb, whatever range you get to full
discharge would be nearly the mpg as an ICE.
About 150 I think.
Though I'm having trouble trying to figure out your point.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/247926026/
Interesting that there are a pair of little wires coming out of each
brush in addition to the main pigtail. My first thought was that
someone had embedded thermocouples in the brushes to monitor
temperature, but in that case each pair of leads would enter a single
hole in the brush, and they certainly would not be terminated in a
0.250" faston.
Anybody know if these extra leads are typical for GE brushes, and what
they might be for?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Both the Factory S-10 and Ranger packs are under the vehicle in one tray.
Keeping the batteries in balance is still a big problem. Enough that if you
don't keep them plugged in most of the time they will not keep the batteries
in
balance.
Don
In a message dated 9/20/2006 10:19:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Despite this, in real world use, balancing devices have indeed demonstrated
some utility. I think the reason is that most conversion EVs don't maintain
a
consistent temperature for all the modules - often they're scattered under
the
hood, under the back seat, in the trunk, etc. If the battery were one big
tray
under the car with good thermal management, I suspect that module-level
balancing would be less significant, at least for lead batteries.
But then I'm not an engineer ...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you read the description, it appears to have been generated by a
translation program, as some of the verbiage just doesn't come together
right. I would say it's a scam. Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought I saw an answer to your question. Looks like a BWI, brush wear
indicator.
Jeff
Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/247926026/
Interesting that there are a pair of little wires coming out of each
brush in addition to the main pigtail. My first thought was that
someone had embedded thermocouples in the brushes to monitor
temperature, but in that case each pair of leads would enter a single
hole in the brush, and they certainly would not be terminated in a
0.250" faston.
Anybody know if these extra leads are typical for GE brushes, and what
they might be for?
Cheers,
Roger.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Major wrote:
> I thought I saw an answer to your question. Looks like a
> BWI, brush wear indicator.
Right you are; I just hadn't waded through all of the new mail yet to
see that someone else had the same question and Jim had posted an
answer.
Thanks!
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Harley actually built an electric cycle back in the 70s. I saw one (the same
one) at the Farmington, MN antique motorbike rally and then later the same year
at the Davenport antique rally- about 8 years ago or so.
-Ralph
On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 21:38:18 -0400
Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Harley as lead sled?
>
> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/09/electric_harley.php
>
> or manufacturer's site:
>
> http://www.vogelbilt.com/
>
> --
> Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Major wrote:
**********
All of this is unnecessary with the Prestolite 7 inch motors. One can easily
tell by looking at the die cast aluminum comm end bell. There are recesses for
the bolt heads that attach it to the frame. Provision there for a neutral
position (in the middle) or 4.5 degrees one way or the other. Most Prestolite
7 inch motors made for unidirectional applications incorporated this 4.5 degree
shift.
**********
My MTA (48V compound) is currently in the shop, but I'm pretty sure
the positions of the end bell attachment bolts in those recesses are
different from the MTC (96V series) in my garage.
**************
Remember that with these 4 pole motors, a 4.5 degree mechanical shift is a 9
degree electrical shift.
***********
Oh great, another layer of confusion. ;^) Actually, I believe
everything I've read here on motor advance seems to have referenced
mechanical shift. (That is, angles have been discussed in terms of
mounting bolt locations.) I believe the typical ADC motor (about
which these conversations generally revolve) are also 4 pole motors,
so I'm going to proceed with the assumption that "degrees" means
"end-bell-to-frame degrees" unless corrected by someone.
***********
Optimum shift angle depends on load current and field strength. The armature
field is in quadrature with the main field. This tends to strengthen one pole
tip and weaken the other. This distorts the main field asymetrically and moves
the zero crossover point between north and south poles effectively inducing
voltage on the armature conductor being commutated.
**********
So running at near triple the rated voltage distorts the field
commensurately. But my guess is this isn't a linear or even a
reasonably predictable relationship.
***********
The 4.5 degree Prestolite shift was found to be a reasonable compromise for the
various applications for these
motors. Most were 72 volts or lower. Running these at higher voltages may
risk brush arcing with the 4.5 degree shift. But some of the angles being
tossed about sound excessive. Another thing to realize is that by shifting
brush position, you are field weakening the motor which reduces torque per amp.
***********
What I'm getting from this is that even though I'm severely
over-volting this motor, I shouldn't go overboard with advancing it.
Maybe 7 - 8 degrees total?
Oh, and in the
"it's-so-embarrassing-to-ask-stupid-questions-but-maybe-much-worse-not-to-ask"
department, am I correct in assuming that to advance the motor I
rotate the end bell in the direction opposite the motor rotation? :-)
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using synchroforce CXP III in my electric scooter
(60V400A Lynch motor 48V500A Alltrax 36V100Ah NIMH actually)
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ItalvelEVolutionA%20008.jpg
but polychain killer is synchrochain model from contitech
http://www.contitech.de/ct/contitech/themen/produkte/antriebsriemen/industrie/industrie_e.html
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: source for drive pulleys and belts
> I hadn't heard of these -- have you used them?
>
> Philippe Borges wrote:
> > just to let you know contitech synchropower belts are promisive Gates
> > "killer"
> >
> > cordialement,
> > Philippe
> >
> > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> > Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Did anyone on the list find a source to buy these Power Wheels
> type connectors? I need a total of 18 to finish my project.
I believe these are (similar to) Anderson PowerPole connectors:
<http://www.andersonpower.com/products/pp/pp.html>
In particular, the PP15 (15A version).
You can buy them direct from Anderson for $7.10/10 housings, e.g.:
<http://store.andersonpower.com/detail.aspx?ID=28> (black)
<http://store.andersonpower.com/detail.aspx?ID=27> (red)
Of course you would need 36 of each colour to assemble 18 2-pole
connectors.
They are also available here, though for a bit higher price:
<http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?catid=159>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> About 150 I think.
> Though I'm having trouble trying to figure out your point.
>
>
That just seems low for a single-seat vehicle - shouldn't it do much
better than a converted Karmann Ghia?
--- End Message ---
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Erik Bigelow wrote:
> I'm not a EE, but I only found a couple of spots that didn't
> look as they should:
Any chance you can provide larger images, and/or view of the other side
of the PCB? Those aren't really detailed enough to see much.
> It looks like the traces have corroded in each picture, the
> left outer trace on the first one and the right outer trace
> on the second.
IIRC, one or the other of these traces brings the pack voltage over to
the precharge circuitry and DC/DC converter that provides house power to
the controller logic. If the trace is bad enough, perhaps the precharge
circuitry is unable to complete its task properly; this would explain
the main contactor not pulling in.
> The copper around the Big Red Thing (rated in KJ? no idea
> what this is) in the first picture also doesn't look great.
This appears to be a film capacitor.
> The board is conformally coated as best I can tell.
> I was thinking of soldering a wire around these two corroded spots and
> seeing if the problems go away. Sound reasonable?
Yep.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Jeff Major wrote:
Compound motors have series field coils and shunt field coils.
For all practical purposes, there is no difference in the
magnetics whether the shunt and series are on each pole
(together) or on separate poles.
You're correct that the flux from the two coils is in series. However,
there *is* a difference.
With the shunt and series fields each on their own poles, you only have
50% winding space for each. This leads to a 50% series field, and 50%
shunt field. You can't have a "strong" series field, where 90% of the
field strength is set by the series field because you only have half the
space for the series winding. This forces you to use half the wire size
to crowd in the requisite number of turn (so it overheats much quicker),
or to use a wire size that can carry the needed current, but accept half
the number of turns.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeremy Rutman
> Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 10:04 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: gears in or out?
>
> Anyway are other Li ion batteries better?
Yep - Kokam.
http://www.kokam.com/english/product/battery_main.html
Cliff over at http://www.proev.com has shown that Kokam's batts really
can handle 8-10C discharges at useful voltages. (See
http://www.proev.com/BatLog/Kkm0002.htm)
Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
James Massey wrote:
Shunt field is connected straight from one terminal to the other, series
field connects from one terminal to one brush pair, the other brush pair
to the other terminal. However, there are two series fields, and two
shunt fields (each pair opposite each other).
So the four field poles are alternately series-shunt-series-shunt? That's
cheap but not good. In effect, it will run like two motors (one shunt, one
series) on a common shaft. It will be fine when the ampere-turns of the
two fields are equal. At other speeds, it will behave like half the motor
is dead weight.
I'll bet someone did a quick-and-dirty repair on this motor at some point.
I have to disagree, Lee. There's nothing wrong with alternately series and
shunt coils. Such a motor will run just fine. I've seen motors like this;
they are a bit unusual but not rare.
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--- Begin Message ---
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060920/bs_nm/environment_autos_dc_13
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Lee,
If you read further in my comments, I address that of which you speak. "But
some compound motor designs require more or less of the shunt versus series, so
the coil size difference becomes problematic and they are wound together to go
on the same pole. " The compound motors such as the one in question were
designed to be about 50/50 shunt/series, so the separate coil method is in
order. The "classic" compound motor was mostly a shunt motor with only a few
series turns to give it a speed regulation, ie. slow it down a little when the
load increased. These motors had the few series turns wound outside the shunt
coil for each pole. But the term compound motor encompases all, mostly shunt,
mostly series and everything inbetween. The motor designer determines best
where to put the coils.
Jeff
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jeff Major wrote:
> Compound motors have series field coils and shunt field coils.
> For all practical purposes, there is no difference in the
> magnetics whether the shunt and series are on each pole
> (together) or on separate poles.
You're correct that the flux from the two coils is in series. However,
there *is* a difference.
With the shunt and series fields each on their own poles, you only have
50% winding space for each. This leads to a 50% series field, and 50%
shunt field. You can't have a "strong" series field, where 90% of the
field strength is set by the series field because you only have half the
space for the series winding. This forces you to use half the wire size
to crowd in the requisite number of turn (so it overheats much quicker),
or to use a wire size that can carry the needed current, but accept half
the number of turns.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
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It's probably off topic, but thanks for sharing.
jmygann wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060920/bs_nm/environment_autos_dc_13
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On Wed, September 20, 2006 2:05 pm, Roger Stockton said:
> Any chance you can provide larger images, and/or view of the other side
> of the PCB? Those aren't really detailed enough to see much.
Please pardon me for butting in here, but I've been helping Erik with
basic wrenching and metalwork on the car during the conversion, and I've
posted his original full-resolution images here:
http://ohmbre.org/temp_upload
> IIRC, one or the other of these traces brings the pack voltage over to
> the precharge circuitry and DC/DC converter that provides house power to
> the controller logic. If the trace is bad enough, perhaps the precharge
> circuitry is unable to complete its task properly; this would explain
> the main contactor not pulling in.
I don't know if it's helpful, but we did end up repairing the wires to the
Raptor's remote display, and as we figured, the red light was the broken
wire. So, the moment you turn the key, you hear the fan spin up, and all
three LEDs on the display light up solid red, green and yellow.
--chris
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--- Begin Message ---
Mike Bachand wrote
<snip>
"Did anyone on the list
find a source to buy these Power Wheels type connectors? I need a total of 18
to finish my project."
Yes, www.mendingshed.com has PW parts.
David Brandt
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What exactly is a "Pole" in a series or compound wound motor?
I am clear on "Fields", "Armatures" and "Brushes and Brush Rings", but not
"Poles".
John.
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--- Begin Message ---
Erik Bigelow wrote:
I
I opened the Raptor last night and took some pictures inside the
controller.
I'm not a EE, but I only found a couple of spots that didn't look as they
should:
http://picasaweb.google.com/electricbasset/Raptor
Can you take a ohmmeter and probe a solder joint on either side of the
corrosion? It would be uncommon for corrosion to cause a break, but
high resistance is possible. The problem does not look too bad to me.
From my experience, examine the headers/connectors between the power
stage and the control board. The pins and connector are tin plated and
corrosion/breakage were the cause of both of the non-working Raptors
I've seen. Careful cleanup may restore it to working.
If you can bring the unit to my house tonight Sean and I can look at
it. Call me.
Mark Farver
It looks like the traces have corroded in each picture, the left outer
trace
on the first one and the right outer trace on the second. The copper
around
the Big Red Thing (rated in KJ? no idea what this is) in the first
picture
also doesn't look great. The board is conformally coated as best I can
tell.
I was thinking of soldering a wire around these two corroded spots and
seeing if the problems go away. Sound reasonable?
Aside from that I can't see anything wrong and it's looking like an
expensive paper weight.
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: Help with Raptor 600
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:53:05 -0600
Message-ID: <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I seem to recall something about jumpering two of the pins together on
certain models of the Raptor 600... I think Rich Rudman may have details
on that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Bath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Help with Raptor 600
Hi Erik,
I hope you're using the schematic for it. If
nobody else gives it to you, get me a fax number, and
I'll do so.
Pin 1 and 2 throttle.
Pin 3 tac
Pin 4 contactor
Pin 5 Ingition +
Pin 6 Ignition -
Pin 7 Shift blanking (unused for me)
Pin 8 Tac 1
Pin 9 LBI (unused for me)
Pin 10 5A, 250 V fuse, then to the HV traction pack.
Hope this "Gits 'er dun!"
TTYL,
--- Erik Bigelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been really working at getting my EV working
> for the Renewable Energy
> Roundup in Fredericksburg, TX this coming weekend.
> I'm working with a used
> Raptor 600, and it isn't pulling the contactor in.
> I'm holding out the hope
> that there might be someone who knows these well.
> Here's the details as far
> as I can tell:
>
> The pack is connected correctly, as I measure ~128V
> (16*8V) at the pack side
> of the contactor
> The controller fan comes on
> Without the Green/Yellow/Red LED gizmo plugged in,
> there is a yellow light
> on the controller right above the spot where the GYR
> LED gizmo goes into the
> controller.
> With the GYR LED gizmo plugged in, the green and
> yellow lights light up, and
> one wire is cut in the bundle, so I assume so far
> this is the wire for the
> red LED, which is not lit.
>
> Also, does anyone have a pinout diagram for the
> green connector on the
> front? Some of the lettering on mine is rubbed off,
> which might be making
> this hard.
>
> Any other general info about them would be much
> appreciated! I'm ready for
> the EV grin!
>
> Thanks
>
> Erik
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
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