EV Digest 5897
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: powertrain as a structural component
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: powertrain as a structural component
by ZillaVIlla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) EEStor
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Battery Balancing
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Dateline EV Episode direct download
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by Rocky Lear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: AlaskaEVA Yahoo Group
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: vacuum reservoir assembly
by "Robyn Lundstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: source for drive pulleys and belts
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: powertrain as a structural component
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: New GM electric car
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery Balancing
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: New GM electric car
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Tesla on radio 4
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: New GM electric car
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: New GM electric car
by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: powertrain as a structural component
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video, GOD FORBID!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Contactors holding shut after strong current
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
The only efficiency hit I can see at the moment would be a longer than
needed magnetic path. I am thinking it would be more of a power density
problem then an efficiency problem.
Suppose you have a 4-pole motor, and want to operate it with 100% of its
field coming from just 2 coils (instead of coils on all 4 poles). The
magnetic path is unchanged -- you still have 2 north and 2 south poles.
The two powered field coils provide the 2 north poles. The outside case
provides the return path for the magnetic flux, bringing the outside
south poles of the two powered field coils around, and back in via the
iron in the 2 unpowered poles. You still have north-south-north-south
around the periphery of the armature, and the motor runs fine.
The problem is that you've taken an efficiency hit. The two field coils
have half the winding space of four coils. To get the same number of
turns, you need to use half the wire size. This doubles its resistance
and voltage drop. This means twice the power loss in the field.
The field normally accounts for about 2% of the power of a DC motor. You
have doubled this to 4%. So, you have about a 2% loss of efficiency by
using the motor this way.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Using "many small batteries" instead of fewer large batteries has numerous
dissadvantages; (generally) lower energy density, more interconnects,
higher complexity, higher costs, etc.
What would be the advantage(s) to your idea?
> Motorcycles are also designed now that hold fuel in their frame rails.
>
> I was thinking you could pack many small batteries in many shapes and
> end up with a lot of battery power spread over alarger area.
>
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 6:31 pm, Chris Tromley wrote:
>> Otmar wrote:
>>
>>> I've long been kicking around an idea of making frame rails into
>>> batteries
>>> to save weight in an EV. (like killing two birds with one stone) and I
>>> was
>>> wondering if anyone here knew of any examples of the powertrain being
>>> used
>>> as a structural component?
>>> Like a battery as a frame member type of thing? or composite body
>>> panels
>>> that generate a current like a battery? I don't know how powerful of a
>>> battery could be made in this manner but the potential weight savings
>>> might
>>> make it workable.
>>>
>>> anyone ever heard of such a beast?
>>
>> Hi Otmar,
>>
>> In the ICE world, using the engine as a structural member is very
>> common. Many current motorcycles use the engine as a partially
>> stressed member. Tony Foale made several customs using a standard big
>> Japanese engine and attaching little sub frames to the head and
>> gearbox for the fork and swingarm - a fully stressed engine. Many F1
>> cars use a fully stressed engine too.
>>
>> The common thread here is using the cast aluminum engine block and
>> trans case to carry chassis loads in addition to
>> combustion/reciprocating/rotating loads. Easy to do when designing
>> from scratch, even doable as a retrofit.
>>
>> You're talking about something a bit different. Castings are great at
>> carrying loads. Batteries are a bit more of a challenge. They are
>> usually made of of many layers of different materials, not unlike
>> composites. The problem is that what works really well as an
>> electrolyte is gonna really suck as a binding agent for a composite.
>> The mechanical requirements of a battery electrode with likely
>> conflict with the requirements of a reinforcing matrix. The battery's
>> electrical structure doesn't lend itself to being a load-bearing
>> structure.
>>
>> There's still a lot of merit to your idea though. There is a need for
>> structural strength in the case of the battery. There's no reason you
>> couldn't design the case to take an additional load, just like an
>> engine casting. I can envision a frame rail that could be filled with
>> a stack of fairly flimsy cells - basically a very long battery that
>> also supports the car. The backbone frame of the Sundancer, stuffed
>> with golf cart batteries, is nothing but a fully stressed battery box.
>>
>> I can also see a stressed-skin composite vehicle where the entire skin
>> has cellular recesses, each loaded with a thin, flexible, replaceable
>> battery. (Anyone who thinks that would be a lot of wires in the skin
>> of the vehicle has never seen a modern airplane without its interior.)
>>
>> I'd be interested in hearing more about your ideas.
>>
>> Chris
>
> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
> globalwarming and the melting poles.
>
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did not receive a response to my message to the seller.
IMHO:
After reading all the POSTs on this, it is clear that this EV is
of nEV capability (the 72 VDC battery pack capacity would be of
nEV speed and range).
For a nEV, the ebay ad's 'item cost + shipping + whatever' price
is about the same as what nEVs are sold for in the U.S.
Why buy a pig-in-a-poke when a nEV can be bought here in the U.S.
from a nEV dealer that gives some support for about the same cost?
I think the ebay ad is just short of a scam (you will get a nEV
at a nEV price), but it is still not worth pursuing (where would
you get parts or support from a Smart Car looking nEV?
My 2mW.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/21/06, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Using "many small batteries" instead of fewer large batteries has numerous
dissadvantages; (generally) lower energy density, more interconnects,
higher complexity, higher costs, etc.
What would be the advantage(s) to your idea?
I see more of a battery that say was 10' long and stiff enough to bolt
everything else onto like a backbone type chassis and in theory, the weight
of the battery gets double use 1. as power storage, 2. as the frame.
almost like being able to throw out the frame on a car to save weight.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Heads up Mike Chancey. My ? to seller was - What is the pick up city so I
could ? shipping cost ?
The replay that I got was - kansas what city are you in.
Joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:09 AM 9/21/2006, you wrote:
Suppose you have a 4-pole motor, and want to operate it with 100% of its
field coming from just 2 coils (instead of coils on all 4 poles). The
magnetic path is unchanged -- you still have 2 north and 2 south poles.
The two powered field coils provide the 2 north poles. The outside case
provides the return path for the magnetic flux, bringing the outside south
poles of the two powered field coils around, and back in via the iron in
the 2 unpowered poles. You still have north-south-north-south around the
periphery of the armature, and the motor runs fine.
The problem is that you've taken an efficiency hit. The two field coils
have half the winding space of four coils. To get the same number of
turns, you need to use half the wire size. This doubles its resistance and
voltage drop. This means twice the power loss in the field.
The field normally accounts for about 2% of the power of a DC motor. You
have doubled this to 4%. So, you have about a 2% loss of efficiency by
using the motor this way.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Or you could put that armature in a larger diameter housing and use longer
pole pieces so that you can get the same number of turns with any size wire
you want. You just have a longer magnetic path and its resulting
resistance to the magnetic field (I am blanking on the word for that) and a
heavier more expensive motor. Alternately you could put the armature off
center giving more room to the pole pieces with the larger windings. But
that makes the pole pieces a lot more complicated to make.
To an engineer everything is a variable until the accounting department
gets in the way.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I received the same message from the user as the others who have sent ..
72 volt Smart car will work ok, acceleration will be unreasonable in 3rd, ok in
2nd, and fine in 1st (stock fortwo gearbox). However, unless the motor can rev
to 8k+, it can't hit 55 in 2nd. The biggest problem is that at the weight of 12
V 200 Amp batteries (appx 150 lbs), the car is overweight. Yes, at 55 mph, the
range cannot approach 70 miles using lead batteries in the Smart.
There is a set of SmartEV studies in UK. But, they are using Zytek motors and
the Zebra Battery
http://www.zytekgroup.co.uk/news/zyteknew.php?nid=132 (July 14th article).
Zytek has been experimenting with the Smart since the days of Emotion Mobility.
The UK study is costing the users appx $25,000 over the life of the lease, and
they have to give it back, so I seriously doubt this could be one of those cars.
If people are interested in the Smart Car as an electric, we can help. We have
done all of the adapter plate work and battery box mounting. This is to use the
original gearbox. We have been to different options on getting a US converted
gas donor. Email if you want more info.
The SmartEV is a great little car. Using lead it is a bit heavy, but the car is
really well made and lots of fun to drive around.
Peter
www.smartev.us
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone heard of them?
http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/15/technology/disruptors_eestor.biz2/index.htm
Looks interesting.
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:53 AM 9/21/2006, Mick Abraham wrote:
Interested EVDL List members could easily test to confirm what I say...or to
refute it with measurements using genuine BattEQ product. A member with a
golf cart or other low voltage rig could do useful testing with fairly low
dollars in one day. Your low voltage test results would help other List
Well, $450 to handle 4 6V batteries seems a bit expensive to me.
What about 12V batteries?
How do you deal with longer strings? Shouldn't the units be
configured to overlap so they can pass the charge all the way down the string?
Also, since "If connected wrong (or disconnected wrong), BattEQ will
fail", doesn't this mean that you can't have a mid-pack furse, as
that is likely to be an incorrect disconnect?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was able to view the mp4 using Mozilla. Quicktime played it, but the
video wasn't very good. Firefox and IE as well as Windows media player
didn't work either.
Bill
Jude Anthony wrote:
I'm still working on a way to transcode it to MPEG. It's MP4 right now;
you may need to download a codec.
Jude
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I just got the apple question mark & no video. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw one just like it at a state highway auction here in KY a couple of
days ago. The guy who owns it doesn't live too far away. He said he'd take
$4000 for his (it's used). It might be OK for town but the top speed he
claims is somewhere around 30mph with a range of around 30 miles. I think
the name is Bombadier.
Rocky
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Strange EV on Ebay
On 20 Sep 2006 at 9:51, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So how does the seller on ebay explain how
they got it imported and licensed?
Note that in the listing photos, the car does not have license tags
(unless
they've been Photoshopped out).
This is a VERY suspicious situation.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Man it was too early in the morning I forgot to include the link to the group:
Group name: AlaskaEVA
Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlaskaEVA
Group email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:29 am
Subject: AlaskaEVA Yahoo Group
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> FYI I just started a Yahoo Group for the AlaskaEVA chapter of the
> Electric Auto Association. Feel free to chime in. We are
> looking forward to lively discussions. While this group will
> focus mainly on local activities I will urge all the members to also
> join this EVlist. It is no doubt full of great insight and knowledge.
>
> Thanks
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The vacuum switch is also tap into the main tank, as to keep the vacuum
between 15 and 22 in.hg. which at one time control a HoneyWell motor that
ran off the battery pack.
Hi Roland,
Do you have a link (or just a brand/model number) to the vacuum switch(es)
you refer to here?
Thanks,
Robyn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not on this pack, my lithium BMS is 100% analog strong component no
microcontroller or computer freezing risk ;^)
The notebook is for alltrax
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Artur Kubik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: source for drive pulleys and belts
> What about notebook at picture? Have you any kind of software working as
> BMS during charging?
> regards
> Artur
>
> Philippe Borges napisał(a):
>
> >I'm using synchroforce CXP III in my electric scooter
> >(60V400A Lynch motor 48V500A Alltrax 36V100Ah NIMH actually)
> >
> >http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ItalvelEVolutionA%20008.jpg
> >
> >but polychain killer is synchrochain model from contitech
> >
>
>http://www.contitech.de/ct/contitech/themen/produkte/antriebsriemen/industr
ie/industrie_e.html
> >
> >cordialement,
> >Philippe
> >
> >Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> >quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> >Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> >http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:09 PM
> >Subject: Re: source for drive pulleys and belts
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>I hadn't heard of these -- have you used them?
> >>
> >>Philippe Borges wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>just to let you know contitech synchropower belts are promisive Gates
> >>>"killer"
> >>>
> >>>cordialement,
> >>>Philippe
> >>>
> >>>Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> >>>quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> >>> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> >>>Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> >>>http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> ============================================================
> Uniwersytet Jagielloński
> Centrum Innowacji, Transferu Technologii i Rozwoju Uniwersytetu (CITTRU)
> ul.Czapskich 4,p.107; 31-110 Kraków
> tel.: +126633837,
> faks: +126633831
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http: www.cittru.uj.edu.pl, www.akcent.malopolska.pl
> =============================================================
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think that making the battery part of the structure in an EV is a bad
idea.
Batteries tend to be full of squishy, sloppy, wet stuff. This is the
stuff that contributes the majority of the weight. The case itself would
have to strengthened (made heavier) to be the structural part.
Batteries don't work well when they leak. Cases have a hard enough time
keeping the goo on the inside without putting the extra stresses of load
bearing on them.
Battery guts make a mess of all the surrounding stuff. Whether it is
acid or alkaline, it will eat unprotected metal.
And perhaps the biggest reason of all...
Batteries need to be replaced reasonably regularly, at about the same
order of magnitude as tyres.
(As in, they need to be replaced when they wear out after x distance,
and they occasionally fail individually.)
Imagine if you had to perform major structural disassembly and
reassembly every time you changed a tyre.
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ZillaVIlla
> Subject: Re: powertrain as a structural component
>
> I see more of a battery that say was 10' long and stiff enough to bolt
> everything else onto like a backbone type chassis and in
> theory, the weight
> of the battery gets double use 1. as power storage, 2. as the frame.
> almost like being able to throw out the frame on a car to save weight.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 09/20/06 at 22:33 Death to All Spammers wrote:
Here's a hypothetical: this car has a small lithium pack (I suppose
for load balancing), so why not a full-sized pack and high current
charger? The volume of the hydrogen tanks alone is more than enough
room (yes, I have visited the GM site and perused the Sequel's specs).
Seems that with the demand for PHEV that this would be a possibility.
Though the guidelines for the project team were:
"Make the new car an effortless transition for any driver - in other
words, you shouldn't be challenged by the technology in some off-putting
way."
Waiting several hours for recharge or requiring the upgrade/installation
of electrical infrastructure at your house are challenges to keeping the
experience similar.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mick Abraham wrote:
I wish to thank Lee Hart for his informative post. I respectfully
suggest that BattEQ(TM) performs much better than Lee's report
about earlier "flying capacitor" type balancers.
Good to hear form you, Mick. The flying capacitor balancers I've tested
were indeed earlier implementations. I have not tested the BattEQ. But
let me address your comments in the hope that we can learn from each other.
Lee said: "They advertise high current... but this is peak current...
the continuous average current is far less than one amp."
Mick says: I measured more than 13 amps of current on two of the five
cables for over 90 minutes as BattEQ worked... I read the amps with
my Extech clamp style digital ammeter which I have found to be accurate.
It is important to know *exactly* how you are measuring the current.
Pulse circuits are notorious for fooling inexpensive meters. Capacitors
can deliver enormously high peak currents; therefore, your hall-effect
type clamp-on meter may be giving you false readings.
You really need to insert an actual DC ammeter (either analog or
digital) that measures current via the voltage it produces across a
shunt. Can you do that, and record the currents you see?
I also find "13 amps for 90 minutes" inexplicable. If the BattEQ is
truly a flying capacitor circuit (as outlined in the patents they
cited), then it is virtually impossible to have a large enough capacitor
in their package to deliver this much current. To get 13 amps DC into a
battery, the capacitor current has to carry +26 amps charging, -26 amps
discharging, at a 50% duty cycle. This requires a 26 amp AC ripple
current rating. It would take, for example, three Panasonic TS-series
68000uF 16vdc capacitors, each 1.375"dia. x 2"long capacitors (rated
9.05 amps RMS each).
Lee said: "actual efficiency is low..."
Mick's reply: The 13 amps... was on 6 volt [batteries]... at least
90 watts of total energy being pumped... If even 15 watts of DC had
been dissipating as heat for 1.5 hours, the BattEQ case would have
heated up noticeably. In my experience, however, the units have
never even felt warm to the touch... consistent with Smart Spark's
claim of only 1% to 4% dissipation loss.
This should strike you as suspicious. The maximum practical efficiency
of a DC/DC converter is about 90%, and it takes extreme measures and
special cases to get even that high.
The BattEQ has no apparent heatsinking; not even a metal case. So it is
unlikely to be able to dissipate more than a few watts without a
noticeable temperature rise. If it doesn't run warm, then it can't be
transferring 90 watts. So, something is wrong with your numbers.
Question for Lee: could your efficiency remarks have assumed the
charging of an UNCHARGED capacitor through a resistor?
The efficiency is certainly related to the voltage difference between
the two batteries. But as a class, capacitive converters have lower
efficiencies than inductive converters. Capacitive converters are only
efficient at low currents, and when the input and output voltages are
the SAME (or some perfect multiple).
You basically have five resistances in a flying capacitor circuit; four
MOSFET transistors and the capacitor. A 50a 50v MOSFET has an
on-resitance of 0.05 ohms (IRFZ30 for example). The capacitors mentioned
above are 0.018 ohms. That's a total of (4 x 0.05) + 0.018 = 0.218 ohms.
To transfer 13 amps, these parts will dissipate P = I^2 x R = 37 watts.
The power being transferred is 6v x 13a = 78w. So efficiency is 78w /
(78w +37w) = 68%.
Mick says: There's obviously a difference between what Lee had seen
before and what I am reporting today. BattEQ deserves a fair trial
before it is dismissed out of hand.
Yes, it certainly does! All that I've said is based on assumptions,
using the limited data supplied, and past experiences with other flying
capacitor circuits. Given the huge number of miracle battery devices
that make impossible claims, it is natural to maintain a healthy skepticism.
Interested EVDL List members could easily test to confirm what I say
... I do offer a 30 day return privilege. I would be happy to discuss
testing methodology and appropriate test bed batteries as you like.
That is an excellent idea. I would be happy to help, by writing a test
plan, or purchasing and testing a device if it is returnable.
Basically, the test should use a shunt and recording meter (such as an
E-meter with data logging). Start with two batteries at an identical
state of charge. Take a known number of amphours out of one battery.
Enable the BattEQ, and record the volts, amps, and amphours that flow
between the batteries.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is this the old paris one from the 60's or a new one?
On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 7:42 am, Mike Ellis wrote:
While that was an amazing video and an amazing piece of driving. I'm
surprised they didn't use the film as evidence to convict him of
what's called here as driving with "intent to kill."
I've never seen something so irresponsible on the road.
-Mike
On 9/21/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How about we make a advertising video for the Tesla like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEJF687VS0M ? This short film is famous
amoung
sportscar aficionados
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
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> I saw one just like it at a state highway auction here in KY a
couple of
> days ago. The guy who owns it doesn't live too far away. He said
he'd take
> $4000 for his (it's used). It might be OK for town but the top speed he
> claims is somewhere around 30mph with a range of around 30 miles. I
think
> the name is Bombadier.
>
That's a totally different beast - one picture is all it takes to see
that the eBay EV is a Smart knock-off. Also, the Bombadier didn't have
solid doors.
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Andre' Blanchard wrote:
Or you could put that armature in a larger diameter housing and use
longer pole pieces so that you can get the same number of turns with any
any size wire you want.
Sure; that works fine if you don't mind the extra size and weight. It
may also add cost (which was the whole point for not wanting to split
the windings equally in the first place).
resistance to the magnetic field (I am blanking on the word for that)
Reluctance.
Alternately you could put the armature off center giving more room
to the pole pieces with the larger windings.
Yes. There are lots of cheap consumer motors that have a single stator
winding, all wound on a single pole. The other pole is shrunken way
down, and the rotor is mounted far off-center. It seems that every trick
in the book has been tried somewhere by someone!
To an engineer everything is a variable until the accounting department
gets in the way.
Good answer! :-)
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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> Removing the engine, exhaust, gas tank and radiator, I got the
weight down
> to 4200 lbs.
>
This is your conversion weight *before* anything was added? My only
reference point is my Ranger's *total* weight of 4750 lbs, so that
seems like a lot - why not switch to something lighter now?
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On 09/21/06 at 05:58 Lee Hart wrote:
>...they succeeded with flying colors. The Sequel... is a 4,700 lbs
>crossover that meets all current vehicle safety standards...
>while featuring GM's latest iteration of its most advanced
>technological systems, including its highly regarded hydrogen
>fuel-cell technology... 0-60 mph acceleration time of 10 seconds...
>300 miles between "fill-ups" of hydrogen... What is it like to drive?
>It's a non-event, and that's exactly the point.
So, they have developed a car that's slower than the EV1, twice
the weight (so probably half the fuel economy), and no doubt
vastly more complicated and expensive. The Solectria Sunrise has
already shown a range of well over 300 miles is possible with
GM's own nimh batteries.
You are comparing apples to oranges, plums, coconuts, and spinach.
Camaros are faster than Tahoes (sticking within the Chevrolet range) -
yet Camaros are no longer produced and Tahoes still sell very well.
Sure, a 2 dr 2 seater is faster. And sure, a prototype made of carbon
fiber was able to go just as far - but there are prototype cars capable
of all sorts of things, speed, efficiency, etc., but they are prototypes
for a reason. The point of the Sequel exercise was to provide a
no-compromise vehicle - the vast majority of passenger vehicles in the
US have 4 doors and carry 5 or more passengers. The Sequel provides
similar performance to a similar sized/capacity gasoline vehicle, and it
goes a similar distance without refill, and is capable of refill in a
similar amount of time.
Do *all* of that with a currently driving battery powered vehicle. Any
one vehicle, not 3 or 4 different ones.
All this hype for a vehicle that even the reviewer says is
completely lackluster and a "non-event"?
I think you are misreading - perhaps deliberately - the review. The
author says it is a non-event - and that is the great part of it. HE
does not say it is completely lackluster, in fact, he writes:
"In a matter of moments, you're going down the road as if you're in any
car - **a highly agile and nicely responsive one at that.**"
That isn't "completely lackluster" by any stretch.
But "all this hype?" I dunno that it is all this hype. I am surprised
that on a list where the mention of an EV in passing in a movie review
will generate a flurry of swooning emails, that a highly capable
electric vehicle just gets pooh poohed.
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On 21 Sep 2006 at 12:20, Rocky Lear wrote:
> I think the name is Bombadier.
If so, it's a model I've never seen. Also, I think Bombardier has been out of
the road EV business for some years, and this one claims to be a 2006
model.
Here's what the Bombardiers I'm familiar with look like :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/humanoide/20420107/
>From most angles it looks almost exactly like a Smart. The most plausible
argument so far is that it's a Chinese knockoff of a Smart.
I wonder where the photos were taken. It's a long shot, but does anyone
recognize the area?
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Good programme aboout EVs, specifically Tesla.
listen here if you missed it on FM ->
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/news/inbusiness/inbusiness.shtml
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On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:50:58 -0400
John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> But "all this hype?" I dunno that it is all this hype. I am surprised
> that on a list where the mention of an EV in passing in a movie review
> will generate a flurry of swooning emails, that a highly capable
> electric vehicle just gets pooh poohed.
That's because it is not intended as an electric but as a hydrogen powered
vehicle. There is no hydrogen infrastructure and the car itself costs about
$1,000,000.00 (a *million* dollars :) -due to its hydrogen fuel cell.
IOW it is not realistic, won't get built and is merely a smoke screen to keep
consumers on the hook for their addiction to oil: blatently inauthentic.
-Ralph
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On 9/21/06, David Roden (Akron OH USA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>From most angles it looks almost exactly like a Smart. The most plausible
argument so far is that it's a Chinese knockoff of a Smart.
I wonder where the photos were taken. It's a long shot, but does anyone
recognize the area?
As I say, I think those banners are for Beijing 2008 olympics. Which
would narrow it down a bit.
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Sure might be an effortless transition.......
Till you pay the bills.
So expensive hydrogen fuel, expensive car, and no / expensive hydrogen
infrastructure is Not off-putting?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Norton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: New GM electric car
"Make the new car an effortless transition for any driver - in other
words, you shouldn't be challenged by the technology in some off-putting
way."
Waiting several hours for recharge or requiring the upgrade/installation
of electrical infrastructure at your house are challenges to keeping the
experience similar.
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Mark Fowler wrote:
I think that making the battery part of the structure in an EV is a bad
idea. Batteries tend to be full of squishy, sloppy, wet stuff.
True enough, for most batteries. I suppose you could say that's the
standard paradigm.
But it's interesting to fantasize about what a battery might look like
if it was *intended* to be structural.
For instance, nickel-iron batteries use two very strong materials for
their plates. You might be able to fashion very long tubular cells that
essentially work as pipes for a space frame, simultaneously containing
the electrolyte in the process.
Or, you might have a vehicle in which a large volume of relatively weak
material provides the structure. My BEST kids have made cars out of
cardboard and styrafoam. With enough of it, shaped the right ways, it is
surprisingly strong. Batteries certainly can be as strong as cardboard
or styrafoam.
Not practical yet... but you never know!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Joe wrote:
Heads up Mike Chancey. My ? to seller was - What is the pick up city so I
could ? shipping cost ?
The replay that I got was - kansas what city are you in.
Sorry, I haven't been following this thread too closely. Yes, I am
in Kansas City, but I am somewhat dubious that the car is. :^) If
it is and if the seller is willing to let me drive by and take a
look, I would be happy to look it over and report what I find. We
also have a couple local chapter members who have seen a real Smart
in person, so maybe they could add their opinion as well. I have
sent the seller an email via Ebay asking if I can get a look at
it. I will let you know what I find out.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
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----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
> Is this the old paris one from the 60's or a new one?
>
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 7:42 am, Mike Ellis wrote:
> > While that was an amazing video and an amazing piece of driving. I'm
> > surprised they didn't use the film as evidence to convict him of
> > what's called here as driving with "intent to kill."
> >
> > I've never seen something so irresponsible on the road.
> >
> > -Mike
> > I second that! He sure ran alot of red lights! I was waiting for a
train, bus, coal truck or large streetcar to appear, and not caring to get
out of the way. THAT woulda been the apros rondiview. Fireball, end of clip!
I certainly wopuld hope Tesla WOULDN'T try a stunt like that. Howbout a
new Pikes Peek record, Instead?
Still stop for Stoplites
Bob
> > On 9/21/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> How about we make a advertising video for the Tesla like this:
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEJF687VS0M ? This short film is famous
> >> amoung
> >> sportscar aficionados
>
> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
> globalwarming and the melting poles.
>
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/06
>
>
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From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Contactors holding shut after strong current
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:04:27 -0700
What's the continuous amp rating for your contactors?
You don't _have_ to have a diode. It's there mostly to protect other
electronics from the back-emf kick that will occur when the coil is
de-energized. If you're using a mechanical switch, you may have some
arcing at that switch when de-energizing.
It's a really bad idea to use a diode across a contactor coil. It slows
down the opening action of the contactor, so that the arc can do much more
damage to the contacts while opening. The contactor life can be drastically
reduced.
A much better choice is to use a regular diode and a zener diode ( 24 V
zener, for example) in series back-to-back, and put this series pair across
the contactor coil. This will prevent the coil "kick" from exceeding 24
volts, so it will save your upstream switches and components from excessive
voltage, but the contactor will open ALMOST as quickly as with no coil
suppressor at all.
Phil
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