EV Digest 5896
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Electric Beetle at UK's Santa Pod this summer?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: vacuum reservoir assembly
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Sploded BB600
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Dr Polsineli: Keeping batteries warm during the winter
by "Dr. Michael Polsinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electric Beetle at UK's Santa Pod this summer?
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Plug in Hybrids... people just don't get it?
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Contactors holding shut after strong current
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Videos of EV car builds
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Sploded BB600
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Strange EV on Ebay
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Sploded BB600
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: vacuum reservoir assembly
by "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Phoenix AZ and Li-Ion
by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Sploded BB600
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Sploded BB600
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) 20kWatt outrunner from RS
by "Ron van Sommeren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Battery Balancing
by "Mick Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
New or Old Beetle? If an Old beetle, there is lots of info on the web. If
it is a New Beetle, you can always take a look at my site for tech details.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: September 21, 2006 6:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Electric Beetle at UK's Santa Pod this summer?
The Portland article about the drag racers was picked up by www.hugg.com
(digg for ecogeeks). One of the comments about the article was this one:
"I was at a car show at Santa Pod (UK) earlyer this summer and there was an
electric beetle. I'll try to find a link to more info about it."
I thought I'd try to help dig up some info. Does this belong to one of you?
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are showing up in the UK now.
Danny's Contentment video blog has a video of them on display at a
show. (July 31, second latest article)
http://www.dannyscontentment.net/
-Mike
PS- I'm going to win a Smart in a raffle this December. Things are
going to change, I can feel it. ;)
On 9/19/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have read somewhere that it was originally designed to be an EV, but
I have never seen one.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
>1/3 of curb weight. The _total_ should not exceed
GVWR.
I know I am in for it but here it goes! I have a problem with this
"rule". What if you start out with the curb weight and GVW the same and
you have 30% of the wt in batteries. Next you tactfully reduce the weight
of the car by 300 lbs(not including the batteries), are you saying you now
have to jettison 100lbs of batteries? If you test both scenarios
described what is your guess as to which car will have the longest range?
>From my experience if you do not beef up the suspension or other structure
you target the GVW and put in as many batteries as you can up to that
weight. The best car I had set up was the voltbuggy at aroud 52% power wt
ratio (yes 52% batteries).
We use to hear this rule back during the races in the 90s and it is
correct for and electrothon type racer in a controlled endurance race
environment, for an everyday vehicle that gets driven "less than
efficient" The more batteries you have the longer the range. Ask the
people with 25+ T125s in there vehicles how their car/truck would perform
with 30% curb wt in batteries. This is where the theoretical analysis
does not simulate the human condition (lead foot).
I dont think it is right to tell these newbies to put in just enough
battery boxes for 30% batt wt and find out later they need to add battery
boxes.....I Know I would be peeved.
Ok ..... now I am ready to get ripped a new one, have at it.
Jimmy
https://www.dm3electrics.com/
--- Joe Plumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've read that the battery weight should be about
> 1/3 of the car weight.
> However is that 1/3 of Gross weight or Curb Weight?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While that was an amazing video and an amazing piece of driving. I'm
surprised they didn't use the film as evidence to convict him of
what's called here as driving with "intent to kill."
I've never seen something so irresponsible on the road.
-Mike
On 9/21/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How about we make a advertising video for the Tesla like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEJF687VS0M ? This short film is famous amoung
sportscar aficionados
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Coming out of my vacuum reservoir, I used the same type of plug in check
valve that is used on the brake booster, that is plug into the reservoir
using the same type of rubber o-ring that the reservoir is design for.
I use a GMC diesel vacuum reservoir.
I than come straight out of that with a 3/8 vacuum hose to my brake booster.
In this same 3/8 inch vacuum line, I tee off to the existing vacuum
reservoir, that is use for vacuum control motors for my heating system and
A/C system.
Between the tee and the second reservoir, I have another vacuum check valve,
the same one as the other ones.
I than tap right off the main reservoir tank with a 1/8 brass pipe fitting
that a electric vacuum sender goes to a vacuum gage.
The vacuum switch is also tap into the main tank, as to keep the vacuum
between 15 and 22 in.hg. which at one time control a HoneyWell motor that
ran off the battery pack.
I first install the vacuum system with out these check valves except for the
existing one in the brake booster, the vacuum in the reservoir would keep
dropping through the accessory vacuum motors and drop to below 10 in.hg.
when pressing the brake two times.
With the check valves, I do not drop below 15 in.hg. I replace the vacuum
pump with a GMC diesel unit, that is belted with a accessory drive that also
drives all the other accessories that are normally on a engine.
It does not need any switch, as where the vacuum pump has a built in cutout
and does not have that pop pop noise.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:53 AM
Subject: vacuum reservoir assembly
> I'm assembling my vacuum reservoir with some guidance from Victor.
>
> A 2" sch 40 PVC pipe about 12-16" long
>
> I plan to assemble as such
>
> Vac Pump----hose----tee to vac swtich--hose----barb to ----2"PVC
> reservoir-----reduce to 1/2" npt---tee to vac gauge----barb to hose to
> existing brake system
>
> My 2 questions please are:
>
> 1. Should my switch be on the end I have it, or the end closer to the
> brake
> system (in place of the gauge)
> 2. Is Sch 40 going to withstand the vac pressure
> 3. glued or threaded (of course I have to thread the brass barb fittings
> in
> to the PVC F-NPT converting piece)
>
> Re1: I realize ideally the vac switch would be at the center of the
> manifold, but that would require a 2" tee and reducers which gets
> cumbersome
>
> BTW - for those who just want to buy one, they're available online at
> $55 after shipping w. gauge whereas home built will cost approx $21 with
> gauge
> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2DG1464&N=700+115&autoview=sku
>
> Thanks, Ben
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The sounds guys were rookies. There were several times around the 2-5
minute marks when the tire squeel was way out of sync with the
handling of the vehicle.
But I must say it, had me seriously captivated. That was pretty much a
suicide run.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> For more info on the film
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%27%C3%A9tait_un_rendez-vous
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0169173/maindetails
>
> In summary, the film was made with a steady-cam attached to the front
> bumper of a Mercedes.
> The Ferrari sounds were dubbed in later.
>
> I guess it wouldn't take much to dub in EV sounds to the footage :-)
> (See http://www.proev.com/ for some examples of EV in-car filming)
>
> Mark
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
> >
> >
> > How about we make a advertising video for the Tesla like this:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEJF687VS0M ? This short film
> > is famous amoung
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are links to the pics of the cracked cell and it's location. Found
it hunting for a ground fault. Any guesses?
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200402.JPG
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200403.JPG
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200404.JPG
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200405.JPG
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200406.JPG
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200407.JPG
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200409.JPG
Mike
PS My first ground fault!
PSS I also found that the vacuum pump for the brakes was running 100%
duty cycle. So I guess the vacuum switch shorted. I've heard about
that.
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Scary. I don't know. I don't have the car yet, it is in route.
Death to All Spammers wrote:
I didn't convert it and am not very technical. I just bought an 1972
Mazda RX2. I don't think that what I have will be much use for you.
Here is a link to pictures:
http://www.davisengineering.net/Mazda/Mazda.html
The seller put in a new charger, heater, and emeter for me.
But who installed the motor's cooling fan? It looks like a computer
fan in half a 2-quart milk jug! I thought you needed blowers for this
so you get both cfm and air pressure.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 20 Sep 2006 at 9:51, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> So how does the seller on ebay explain how
>
> they got it imported and licensed?
Note that in the listing photos, the car does not have license tags (unless
they've been Photoshopped out).
This is a VERY suspicious situation.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
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([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dunno, I'm just working from that comment.
I was wondering if anyone knew who it belonged to, though. Not really
for details on beetles in general.
Thanks,
-Mike
On 9/21/06, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
New or Old Beetle? If an Old beetle, there is lots of info on the web. If
it is a New Beetle, you can always take a look at my site for tech details.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: September 21, 2006 6:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Electric Beetle at UK's Santa Pod this summer?
The Portland article about the drag racers was picked up by www.hugg.com
(digg for ecogeeks). One of the comments about the article was this one:
"I was at a car show at Santa Pod (UK) earlyer this summer and there was an
electric beetle. I'll try to find a link to more info about it."
I thought I'd try to help dig up some info. Does this belong to one of you?
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:12 AM 9/21/2006, you wrote:
Tom Shay wrote:
I have to disagree, Lee. There's nothing wrong with alternately series and
shunt coils. Such a motor will run just fine. I've seen motors like this;
they are a bit unusual but not rare.
For the special case where you want both shunt and series fields to be the
same strength, it works fine. But, I think this is a small minority of
actual applications.
It's much more likely that you want a strong series motor with a weak
shunt field to limit the maximum rpm or to get a little regen.
Or, you want a strong shunt field to use as a generator or constant-speed
motor, with a weak series field to compensate it for load current variations.
In either of these cases, using only half the winding space for your main
field means a less efficient motor that runs hotter and overheats sooner.
It works... but as I said, it is cheap, not good.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
The only efficiency hit I can see at the moment would be a longer then
needed magnetic path. Which can be helped by adding more iron and
steel. And the open space in the field could mean its easier to get some
cooling air in there.
I am thinking it would be more of a power density problem then an
efficiency problem.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yesterday I was talking with some coworkers about electrics, and how
PHEVs would pave the way. I explained a little bit about how they
work.
"They're hybrids with bigger battery packs so that they can run on
electric only for longer. You plug them in at night and depending on
your driving habits and your route to work you could get the
equivalent of 100-200 mpg."
And then one coworker asks, "But what happens when you run out of
electricity on the way? You're stuck there?"
To which I replied, without talking down at all, "Well, then you
switch to gas, like a regular hybrid."
"Of course," he said.
Then another coworker said, "Yeah, but what happens when your
batteries run dry, you just sit there?"
I repeated what I had said and I think the second coworker gets it
now. But I was amazed that this was asked even once.
Are the rest of you finding that the public just isn't getting the
idea of PHEVs?
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have this persons phone number- I will call them today and let you
know what info I get...
Mark Dutko
On Sep 21, 2006, at 7:49 AM, David Roden wrote:
On 20 Sep 2006 at 9:51, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So how does the seller on ebay explain how
they got it imported and licensed?
Note that in the listing photos, the car does not have license tags
(unless
they've been Photoshopped out).
This is a VERY suspicious situation.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What's the continuous amp rating for your contactors?
Are you certain the contactors are actually energized, or simply welded
a little bit? If you're continuously powering with 12V, and then
grounding the other coil lead, then disconnect the 12V and see if they
open. If they don't, then it's welded. If they do, then you have a short.
You don't _have_ to have a diode. It's there mostly to protect other
electronics from the back-emf kick that will occur when the coil is
de-energized. If you're using a mechanical switch, you may have some
arcing at that switch when de-energizing.
EV2 wrote:
What could make a contactor hold shut after a large current pass?
I have had this happen not once, but twice recently.
The first time, I was on my 5th test run pulling about 1000 amps when
one of the two large contactors welded shut and the other just stayed
energized with no ground applied. Had to use emergency disconnect. I
have battery continuously applied with a ground for control. I have
two large contactors in series for a higher voltage.
The second time, on a different contactor, I blew a 800 amp fuse
because I forgot to take off a strap I had put in for load testing the
batteries. I put a load of 1200 amps on the batteries for a few
seconds. So when I was testing my contactor controller after the
battery load test and forgot to remove the strap across the
contactors, the batteries shorted out and the 800 amp fuse blew, but
the contactor remained energized. Again with no ground applied.
What might be keeping these contactors energized?
I have to pull up on the contacts to release them and then they remain
off.
They have no diodes across the coil, just a factory suppressor of some
sort.
I have no circuitry I need to protect, just mechanical means to
control the contactors.
I suspect the suppressor across the coils and am going to remove them.
Any downside to having nothing across the coils of large contactors?
John.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Fuelish Decisions" (1st video) Sheesh.
Rush wrote:
I followed Ron Archers message to the San Diego EAA website and went thru some of their links, good info about Ball park approximations, costs, EV design, EV simulation, chek them out at
http://home.att.net/~NCSDCA/EVAoSD/
But what was really amazing was that they have had workshops where they converted VW's in EV's. Just fantastic. First was a kit by ElectroAutomotive, 2nd was components only. Here is a link
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5148280482272042028.
What a great idea. Let's have more of them, think of all the questions that we could answer during an installation.
Now while you are there chek out the other EV videos, the Telsa stuff if you
want to, but look at the 'Gas Free Car', (does that red porsche, or engine
config look familiar...)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3909632706885280284
the 'Catablade Electrick Concept Car'
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3109497682377423143
"FutureCrusH' if you haven't already seen it (long, 32 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3974264721033016884
'Smart Diablo and Ferrari'.... guess who wins...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5292341112610385808
Then for the sheer fun of it look at
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1647492853543566084,
a 747 landing in EXTREME cross wind.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One of those vehicles would be perfect for where I live. I hope they
get exported tothe US some day.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> They are showing up in the UK now.
>
> Danny's Contentment video blog has a video of them on display at a
> show. (July 31, second latest article)
>
> http://www.dannyscontentment.net/
>
> -Mike
>
> PS- I'm going to win a Smart in a raffle this December. Things are
> going to change, I can feel it. ;)
>
>
> On 9/19/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have read somewhere that it was originally designed to be an EV, but
> > I have never seen one.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I dropped one of my cells and it cracked the white case. The crack looks a lot
like the one on
yours. Maybe someone dropped a cell before assembling the pack.
--- Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here are links to the pics of the cracked cell and it's location. Found
> it hunting for a ground fault. Any guesses?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My total gross weight of my 1977 El Camino is 5500 lbs with 500 lbs of
cargo.
Removing the engine, exhaust, gas tank and radiator, I got the weight down
to 4200 lbs.
Add a 200 lbs motor, 50 lb charger, 20 lbs controller, accessories drive
system of 80 lbs, battery box of 100 lbs and a hatch cover of about 100 lbs,
this comes to 4750 lbs.
I than take 1/2 the weight of 4750 lbs or 2375 lbs which I will use for the
batteries. I use 30 each T-145's that weigh 72 lbs each or 2160 lbs which
have a energy density of 21.6 watts per lb.
The new total weight would now be 4750 + 2160 lbs = 6910 lbs. When I weigh
the EV, it came to 6860 lbs.
So 1/3 of 6860 lbs is equal to 2286 lbs of batteries which I have 126 lbs
difference.
Another thing to consider, which no one on this list has ever talk about, is
the watts per lb of battery.
You may have a battery that weighs 50 lbs and is only 50 ah at 12 volts.
This is 50ah x 12V = 600 watts. 600W / 50 lbs = 12 watts per lb. which is
very low.
If you have 1000 lbs of these batteries which is 1/3 the weight of the
vehicle, will not have the same energy as batteries at 25 watts per lb. for
the same weight.
If you go over the gross original gross weight of the vehicle, then you
should upgrade the suspension, axles, bearings and reinforcing of the frame
and/or body to increase the gross weight of the vehicle.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "DM3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
> From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
>
>
> >1/3 of curb weight. The _total_ should not exceed
> GVWR.
>
> I know I am in for it but here it goes! I have a problem with this
> "rule". What if you start out with the curb weight and GVW the same and
> you have 30% of the wt in batteries. Next you tactfully reduce the weight
> of the car by 300 lbs(not including the batteries), are you saying you now
> have to jettison 100lbs of batteries? If you test both scenarios
> described what is your guess as to which car will have the longest range?
> >From my experience if you do not beef up the suspension or other
> >structure
> you target the GVW and put in as many batteries as you can up to that
> weight. The best car I had set up was the voltbuggy at aroud 52% power wt
> ratio (yes 52% batteries).
> We use to hear this rule back during the races in the 90s and it is
> correct for and electrothon type racer in a controlled endurance race
> environment, for an everyday vehicle that gets driven "less than
> efficient" The more batteries you have the longer the range. Ask the
> people with 25+ T125s in there vehicles how their car/truck would perform
> with 30% curb wt in batteries. This is where the theoretical analysis
> does not simulate the human condition (lead foot).
> I dont think it is right to tell these newbies to put in just enough
> battery boxes for 30% batt wt and find out later they need to add battery
> boxes.....I Know I would be peeved.
> Ok ..... now I am ready to get ripped a new one, have at it.
> Jimmy
> https://www.dm3electrics.com/
>
>
>
>
> --- Joe Plumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I've read that the battery weight should be about
> > 1/3 of the car weight.
> > However is that 1/3 of Gross weight or Curb Weight?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I started watching it without sound and it wasn't that impressive. It didn't
seem like he was
going that fast at all. But it was surprising how many red lights he ran.
Dave Cover
--- Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The sounds guys were rookies. There were several times around the 2-5
> minute marks when the tire squeel was way out of sync with the
> handling of the vehicle.
>
> But I must say it, had me seriously captivated. That was pretty much a
> suicide run.
>
> Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I too have been following this car as I have a smart here in the US. If this
is a copy it is a pretty good copy. Looks very close to the pre 2007 model
smart fourtwo however there are distinct differences. The rear hatch does
not have the same locking mechanism, the roofline / quarter glass (plastic)
at the rear hatch is different, seats and dash are definitely not smart. The
windshield wipers do not work in the same manner etc....
So I have gotten a reply and will call him today (His reply was call me at
913-563-4453)and let everyone know the outcome.
Pedroman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:18 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Strange EV on Ebay
They are showing up in the UK now.
Danny's Contentment video blog has a video of them on display at a show.
(July 31, second latest article)
http://www.dannyscontentment.net/
-Mike
PS- I'm going to win a Smart in a raffle this December. Things are going to
change, I can feel it. ;)
On 9/19/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have read somewhere that it was originally designed to be an EV, but
> I have never seen one.
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--- Begin Message ---
This actually appeared to be normal French driving and fairly tame by
Italian standards.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Cover
Sent: Friday, 22 September 2006 1:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
I started watching it without sound and it wasn't that impressive. It didn't
seem like he was
going that fast at all. But it was surprising how many red lights he ran.
Dave Cover
--- Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The sounds guys were rookies. There were several times around the 2-5
> minute marks when the tire squeel was way out of sync with the
> handling of the vehicle.
>
> But I must say it, had me seriously captivated. That was pretty much a
> suicide run.
>
> Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
When I was in the Air Force 50 years ago, we normally pull these batteries
out of the aircraft every 30 days, pull them out of the cases, clean them
with a solution I do not remember what it was.
We than discharge them all the way down by installing shorting bars, replace
the KOH and charge them back up and pick out the best ones that are in with
0.009 volt of each other out of a large stock that to reinsert into the
cases.
They were than clean again. Today in these battery shops, they must wear
latex gloves to handle these batteries, so as to not leave any conductive
tracking residue on them.
To prevent leakage between cells which was pack tight together, we grease
them up on all sides and tops with GE di-electric silicone grease.
We than do these all over again in 30 days. You may get by for 90 days with
no leakage.
These is a special design battery charger, we used, that can charge 36 cells
seperately which had 37 charger leads. A rotary switch can monitor each cell
voltage.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>; "BB600" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:40 AM
Subject: Sploded BB600
> Here are links to the pics of the cracked cell and it's location. Found
> it hunting for a ground fault. Any guesses?
>
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200402.JPG
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200403.JPG
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200404.JPG
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200405.JPG
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200406.JPG
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200407.JPG
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200409.JPG
>
> Mike
>
> PS My first ground fault!
> PSS I also found that the vacuum pump for the brakes was running 100%
> duty cycle. So I guess the vacuum switch shorted. I've heard about
> that.
>
>
> Here's to the crazy ones.
> The misfits.
> The rebels.
> The troublemakers.
> The round pegs in the square holes.
> The ones who see things differently
> The ones that change the world!!
>
> www.RotorDesign.com
>
>
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2" pipe seems too small. I used a 16" scrap of 4"PVC water pipe Sch 40 (DWV
drain line is too weak - collapsed)
We glued caps on each end. Drill and tap holes in the upper cap for 1/4NPT x
3/8" barbed brass fittings. Used 3/8 milky poly tubing that feels real stiff
from Home Depot. Vac switch can go anywhere on the system, vacuum level same
all over. We found that you don't even need to clamp the tubes on the barbed
fittings, they don't leak.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:53 AM
Subject: vacuum reservoir assembly
> I'm assembling my vacuum reservoir with some guidance from Victor.
>
> A 2" sch 40 PVC pipe about 12-16" long
>
> I plan to assemble as such
>
> Vac Pump----hose----tee to vac swtich--hose----barb to ----2"PVC
> reservoir-----reduce to 1/2" npt---tee to vac gauge----barb to hose to
> existing brake system
>
> My 2 questions please are:
>
> 1. Should my switch be on the end I have it, or the end closer to the
brake
> system (in place of the gauge)
> 2. Is Sch 40 going to withstand the vac pressure
> 3. glued or threaded (of course I have to thread the brass barb fittings
in
> to the PVC F-NPT converting piece)
>
> Re1: I realize ideally the vac switch would be at the center of the
> manifold, but that would require a 2" tee and reducers which gets
> cumbersome
>
> BTW - for those who just want to buy one, they're available online at
> $55 after shipping w. gauge whereas home built will cost approx $21 with
> gauge
>
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2DG1464&N=700+115&autoview=sku
>
> Thanks, Ben
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, A123. www.a123systems.com These are rated max storage temp 60c or 140f.
It's true, heat is VERY bad for all batteries, and unfortunately not many
batteries will like it in Phoenix! Even these will probably suffer from
reduced cycle/calendar life at these high temps. Dont't think you'll find
anything better though.
----- Original Message -----
From: "England Nathan-r25543" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Phoenix AZ and Li-Ion
I am not ready to fork out the cash on a set of Li-Ion batteries just
yet but was disappointed to see their maximum storage temperature was
too low for Phoenix, Arizona. This means I couldn't use them at any
price and live here. Valence shows 122F maximum storage temperature and
this would be very easy to exceed for this area, are there other more
temperature tolerant Lithium batteries?
Thanks,
Nate
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The return email I got from the seller was a bit garbled, but here is
what I found out.
6 12vdc 200ah batteries
6.5" motor
the controller part was cut off for some reason.
Probably a 72vdc nominal setup. Even if the car is very light, I don't
think that it is going to go 75 miles with 14.4kw of energy on board,
especially at 55mph. I don't see Sparrows going 75 miles per charge and
they have about 2x the energy.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
On 9/21/06, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> To me, this looks like a Chinese copy of the Smart car,
> without the german engineering - a kind of souped up golf cart
> or "bubble car" that is still offered on Ebay from time to time.
> A Chinese company Chery has been taken on before by GM Daewoo
> when they found a copy-cat version of the Matiz, so why not
> DaimlerChrysler's Smart copied?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the excellent tips Roland!
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> When I was in the Air Force 50 years ago, we normally pull these
batteries
> out of the aircraft every 30 days, pull them out of the cases, clean
them
> with a solution I do not remember what it was.
>
> We than discharge them all the way down by installing shorting bars,
replace
> the KOH and charge them back up and pick out the best ones that are
in with
> 0.009 volt of each other out of a large stock that to reinsert into the
> cases.
>
> They were than clean again. Today in these battery shops, they
must wear
> latex gloves to handle these batteries, so as to not leave any
conductive
> tracking residue on them.
>
> To prevent leakage between cells which was pack tight together, we
grease
> them up on all sides and tops with GE di-electric silicone grease.
>
> We than do these all over again in 30 days. You may get by for 90
days with
> no leakage.
>
> These is a special design battery charger, we used, that can charge
36 cells
> seperately which had 37 charger leads. A rotary switch can monitor
each cell
> voltage.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EVDL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "BB600" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 8:40 AM
> Subject: Sploded BB600
>
>
> > Here are links to the pics of the cracked cell and it's location.
Found
> > it hunting for a ground fault. Any guesses?
> >
> > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200402.JPG
> > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200403.JPG
> > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200404.JPG
> > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200405.JPG
> > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200406.JPG
> > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200407.JPG
> > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/P9200409.JPG
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > PS My first ground fault!
> > PSS I also found that the vacuum pump for the brakes was running 100%
> > duty cycle. So I guess the vacuum switch shorted. I've heard about
> > that.
> >
> >
> > Here's to the crazy ones.
> > The misfits.
> > The rebels.
> > The troublemakers.
> > The round pegs in the square holes.
> > The ones who see things differently
> > The ones that change the world!!
> >
> > www.RotorDesign.com
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would you have a pic by chance? I hopoe it was dropped. It would be
hard to imagine a milspec battery doing this to itself.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I dropped one of my cells and it cracked the white case. The crack
looks a lot like the one on
> yours. Maybe someone dropped a cell before assembling the pack.
>
> --- Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Here are links to the pics of the cracked cell and it's location.
Found
> > it hunting for a ground fault. Any guesses?
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Goedendag,
A 20kW outrunner motor from Rolf Strecker ( www.rs-e-motoren.de/ )
<www.rc-unionen.dk/nytforum/uploads/9302/2006918173952_Aspach%202006%201.JPG>
Vriendelijke groeten ;-) Ron van Sommeren
near Nijmegen, the Netherlands
E-fly-in, Aug.26. http://home.hetnet.nl/~ronvans/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wish to thank Lee Hart for his informative post. I respectfully suggest
that BattEQ(TM) performs much better than Lee's report about earlier "flying
capacitor" type balancers.
Lee said: "They can advertise a high current ("up to 6 amps"), but if you
put an ammeter in series, you'll find that this is the peak for less than
one second; the continuous average current is far less than one amp." Mick
says: On 9-20-06, I measured more than 13 amps of current on two of the five
cables for over 90 minutes as BattEQ worked on a client's middle-aged 24
volt battery. The power was still pumping when my work was done and I left
for home. The amp movement on the other cables was more like 2 to 5
amps--not because the balancer was maxed out, but simply because those
channels were not as far out of whack as the others. I read the amps with my
Extech clamp style digital ammeter which I have found to be accurate.
Mick says: Amp movement definitely reduces as the voltage difference narrows
from one segment to another. On a battery at rest with initial balancing
completed, the amp transfer nearly disappears--as it should. However,
charging or discharging the pack makes the segment voltages try to diverge
again, and the power transfer then ramps up.
Lee said: "actual efficiency is low... most of the power being transferred
is dissipated." Mick's reply: The 13 amps of nonstop channel to channel
energy movement that I measured on 9-20 was occurring on 6 volt increments
of the pack. 13 amps X 6 volts = 78 watts plus additional energy movement on
the other channels, for at least 90 watts of total energy being pumped. If
even 15 watts of DC had been dissipating as heat for 1.5 hours, the BattEQ
case would have heated up noticeably. In my experience, however, the units
have never even felt warm to the touch. This observation is consistent with
Smart Spark's claim of only 1% to 4% dissipation loss.
Question for Lee: could your efficiency remarks have assumed the charging of
an UNCHARGED capacitor through a resistor? In that case, about 50% of the
energy into the system would be lost in the resistance. With BattEQ,
however, the capacitors are already charged, so they only see the small
differential voltage between the batteries.
Mick says: There's obviously a difference between what Lee had seen before
and what I am reporting today. BattEQ deserves a fair trial before it is
dismissed out of hand.
Interested EVDL List members could easily test to confirm what I say...or to
refute it with measurements using genuine BattEQ product. A member with a
golf cart or other low voltage rig could do useful testing with fairly low
dollars in one day. Your low voltage test results would help other List
members who are considering a car-sized BattEQ deployment. No "free samples"
of the device are available, but I do offer a 30 day return privilege. I
would be happy to discuss testing methodology and appropriate test bed
batteries as you like....on List or off.
Yours for better battery performance,
Mick Abraham, Proprietor
Abraham Solar Equipment
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not a "Rule" it's a "Rule of Thumb".
I.e. if you want approx 50 miles range, then approx 1/3 of the vehicles
total weight should be batteries.
If 50% of the weight is batteries, then your range gets closer to 100
miles, if less weight is in batteries, then you get less range.
For most people 50 miles is a good range to shoot for. It's about 50%
farther than most people drive in a day so you get maximum battery life
and well as having some reserve range for the occasional extra trip.
If you need more than 50 miles range, then by all means, use more
batteries. If you don't need more range, then all you are accomplishing
is spending more money on batteries, that you don't really need, and
making the vehicle heavier; which means more wear and tear, poorer
performance, and longer stopping distances. Where is the advantage to
that?
> From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
>
>
>>1/3 of curb weight. The _total_ should not exceed
> GVWR.
>
> I know I am in for it but here it goes! I have a problem with this
> "rule". What if you start out with the curb weight and GVW the same and
> you have 30% of the wt in batteries. Next you tactfully reduce the weight
> of the car by 300 lbs(not including the batteries), are you saying you now
> have to jettison 100lbs of batteries? If you test both scenarios
> described what is your guess as to which car will have the longest range?
>>From my experience if you do not beef up the suspension or other
>> structure
> you target the GVW and put in as many batteries as you can up to that
> weight. The best car I had set up was the voltbuggy at aroud 52% power wt
> ratio (yes 52% batteries).
> We use to hear this rule back during the races in the 90s and it is
> correct for and electrothon type racer in a controlled endurance race
> environment, for an everyday vehicle that gets driven "less than
> efficient" The more batteries you have the longer the range. Ask the
> people with 25+ T125s in there vehicles how their car/truck would perform
> with 30% curb wt in batteries. This is where the theoretical analysis
> does not simulate the human condition (lead foot).
> I dont think it is right to tell these newbies to put in just enough
> battery boxes for 30% batt wt and find out later they need to add battery
> boxes.....I Know I would be peeved.
> Ok ..... now I am ready to get ripped a new one, have at it.
> Jimmy
> https://www.dm3electrics.com/
>
>
>
>
> --- Joe Plumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I've read that the battery weight should be about
>> 1/3 of the car weight.
>> However is that 1/3 of Gross weight or Curb Weight?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
