EV Digest 5925
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: AC vs DC?
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: toyota prius donor car?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: AC vs DC?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: another conversion
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) "Remote Control" was Re: Pics of infloor charging plates
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Ballard Power Systems was Fwd: [evco]: Lithium powered Taxi soon in NYC.
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Current Eliminator news
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Join In! WAS : AC vs DC?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Getting the garage electrical up to EV snuff
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2
by Dennis Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Parts worth salvaging?
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Getting the garage electrical up to EV snuff
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re:Current Eliminator news
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Charging Woes
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Charging Woes
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Found my donor car - needs heat
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Tesla Yahoo News Story
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: GPS as speed and distance log. 0 to 60 time measurement
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: China Knock-offs (Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2)
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Parts worth salvaging?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: China Knock-offs (Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
oooooh. somebody said boat :)
Guess I can add another motor mfgr.to the list then, if the hobbyist
wants something "Cadillac". Solomon Technologies.
Web site price list here:
http://www.solomontechnologies.com/docs/Price_spreadsheet.xls
Runs underwater OK and does regen.
Some quick pics and stats here:
http://www.solomontechnologies.com/motordrive.htm
Yah, marine, but I see they now have a cars page(s) as "Under
Construction"
Tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid
--- Mike Kaplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ecycle (www.ecycle.com and www.ecyclemarine.com) make a brushless DC
> motor
> for OEMs to incorporate into their products. I purchased a
> discontinued
> model and am waititng for transmission hardware (sprockets and
> belts) to
> install it in my sailboat and evaluate it. I will post a report
> after that.
>
> Ecycle doesn't sell to consumers. I am hoping to become a conduit
> for the
> hobbyist market but I want to evaluate mine first.
>
> Ecycle claims 95% efficiency and up to 12kw peak on the 48v model.
> The
> motors can be "stacked" to create a motor with twice the torque.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:22 PM
> > Subject: RE: AC vs DC?
> >
> >
> > > As my note stated it was within the context of: "comparing the
> currently
> > > available hobbyists AC and DC systems"
> > >
> > > Are there any brushless DC systems available today for hobbyist
> EVs that
> > > don't cost $30k?
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
> > >
> > > see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > > Behalf Of Andrew Roberts
> > > Sent: September 26, 2006 9:59 AM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: RE: AC vs DC?
> > >
> > > All excellent points, however, you forgot one category:
> Brushless DC.
> > All
> > > the features of the AC systems, with better efficiency, torque,
> and
> power
> > > density. Prohibitively expensive at this time, I know, but that
> will
> > change
> > > with demand.
> > >
> > >
> > > Since this does not seem like the typical AC vs DC debate, I
> thought I
> > would
> > > weigh in. One thing to note though: we are not really comparing
> "purely"
> > > AC to DC motors, but comparing the currently available hobbyists
> AC and
> DC
> > > systems. So here is my pro and con list based on what we can
> readily
> > > purchase today:
> > >
> > > AC
> > > - regen
> > > - can use higher voltages - smaller wires, but more batteries and
> more
> > > connections
> > > - wider power band
> > > - can hold on hills without causing brush burnout
> > > - somewhat more expensive
> > > - Siemens, MES and Solectria are all AC systems
> > >
> > >
> > > DC
> > > - most powerful available to hobbyists (current leader in drag
> racing
> > cars)
> > > - can get higher power systems cheaper
> > > - entry level is inexpensive on a weight & power basis
> > > - lower voltage means less batteries and connections, but bigger
> wires,
> > > fuses, contactors and breakers
> > > - huge torque off the get go
> > > - Warp and ADC are DC motors
> > > - ADC and Zilla are controllers
> > >
> > >
> > > Then there is looking at manufacturers:
> > >
> > > Siemens AC motor/controllers
> > > - OEM quality, water proof, well built, made for automotive
> applications
> > > - liquid cooled
> > > - programmable
> > > - easy to set up
> > >
> > >
> > > Zilla Controllers
> > > - made for EVs
> > > - programmable
> > > - can drive dual motors for electronic transmission
> > > - very powerful
> > > - liquid cooled
> > >
> > > Warp/ADC Motors
> > > - the "standard" dc motor
> > > - air cooled
> > > - fork list motor used successfully in many, many EVs
> > >
> > >
> > > Hmm, well that should get a few replies!
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> > > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
> > >
> > > see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > > Behalf Of Michael Trefry
> > > Sent: September 25, 2006 5:46 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: AC vs DC?
> > >
> > > Thanks to those who took the time to welcome me, and those who
> emailed
> me
> > > personally.
> > >
> > > I'm still trying to figure out exactly how I'm going to build
> this,
> > although
> > > I think I'm sold on the 914 (I Love those cars!)
> > >
> > > I may still go for the kit offered at evparts or electroauto, but
> I want
> > to
> > > understand my options before I nail myself down to a specific
> technology.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From some of the reading I've been doing AC seems to be more
> efficient
> > > >than
> > > DC in an EV.
> > >
> > > Are there disadvantages to using an AC system? Is it more
> complex,
> > > expensive? Are there other limitations?
> > >
> > > It looks like 6v fla batteries are pretty standard, but all this
> talk
> I'm
> > > seeing about batteries is making me curious about what the best
> > > cost/performance battery solution is.
> > >
> > > Ideally I'd like to get at least 60 miles on a charge, be able to
> get up
> > to
> > > at least 85mph and have some decent acceleration. I think a 0-60
> in 20
> > > seconds car would drive me insane.
> > >
> > > Suggestions anyone?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mike (the new guy)
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--- Begin Message ---
On Sep 25, 2006, at 5:02 PM, mike golub wrote:
There was a disscussion about how a Hybrid car would
be a good donor car to be 100% EV. (I think?)
I would think so, it is a vehicle designed for efficiency. But...
I was looking at 2005 Toyota Prius that is going on
auction with front end damage. Looks like an
automatic.
Its a CVT automatic - they all are. The automatic tranny is a single
planetary gear set with the engine hooked to one gear, a small electric
motor hooked to another, and the 3rd is the output to the final drive
(including a larger electric motor and park cog.) The control of these
two electric motors are tightly integrated into the electronics of the
engine. Rich and company has done some work with the system but to my
knowledge no one has gone so far as to completely separate them.
It would likely be easier to fit some other transaxle. Remember, there
are no provisions for a shifter or clutch on a Prius either (a single
gear EV would be fitting.) The rest of the vehicle 12 volt electronics
are pretty well tied into the computers (there are a number of
computers) too.
I don't want to discourage the idea, but it would be an ambitious
project for someone with good mechanical and especially good computer
skills.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sep 25, 2006, at 5:46 PM, Michael Trefry wrote:
Ideally I'd like to get at least 60 miles on a charge, be able to get
up to
at least 85mph and have some decent acceleration. I think a 0-60 in 20
seconds car would drive me insane.
Then don't bother with golf cart batteries! Its a power/weight ratio
thing and while GC batteries have great life and range for the lowest
cost they do not make for fast acceleration. Each 60 lb. GC battery is
good for about 3 horsepower at the motor (yes - you can get somewhat
more at the expense of life.) Consider what the completed vehicle will
weigh and how many of those "3 HP" blocks of power you have available.
Compare the power/weight ratio to available vehicles that are similar
(I suspect you will be comparing to 40 HP or 36 HP Beetles.) Sorry...
There is a way to get good power. There are AGM lead acid batteries
that could deliver 800 amps at 10.5 volts in a 40 lb. package. That is
more like 9 HP per 'block.' (and its a lighter block) At the end of the
exercise range does come down to pounds of lead acid batteries, but fun
boils down to battery choice.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sharon,
Can you take a couple minutes and give some details - pack voltage, controller,
motor, dc/dc etc?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon G Alexander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: another conversion
> Hi, we just got #20 in our shop, another conversion. an S-10, Life is good
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> They can remotely at anytime either turn the cart off or on, or set
> the speed to presets (15/25/35/45) or maybe even potentially any
> speed?
Hi Ryan
What's the name of the outfit please? Any website? I'm interested in
how they have enabled the "remote control" for speed limiting. How are
"experience points" measured? by the machines (controller?)"on the
fly", or?
Tks
Lock
Human/Electric Hybrid
Toronto
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Apparently, it's fully automatic. They have a wall of Zivan NG5
> chargers hooked up to these:
>
> http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7685/chargekh2.jpg
>
> http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/97/charge1pg4.jpg
>
>
> I'll try and get some better pics of the Zivan's tomorrow:
>
> http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3992/zivanfz0.jpg
>
>
> http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/charger.shtml
>
> http://racep2r.com/
>
> Supposedly they are opening up tracks in Vegas and Dallas soon.
>
> These carts also have a setting that will let them run 75mph(after
> you
> get enough experience points). The guy working there said they took
> one out in the parking lot and clocked it doing 89mph.
>
> They can remotely at anytime either turn the cart off or on, or set
> the speed to presets (15/25/35/45) or maybe even potentially any
> speed? At the start and end of the race, they have the carts capped
> at about .5 or 1mph. Those motors have the strangest feeling hp/tq
> curves. Reminiscent of a turbo spooling up and the power increase as
> a result of that. Exponential.
>
> Smooth indoor concrete floor, temperature controlled, silent, no
> fumes, absolutely flying... Makes me want an EV even more.
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Well, I'd kinda written off Ballard as a fool cell outfit, but it seems
they are not entirely clueless about survival...
The following post references their(new?)product seen here:
http://tinyurl.com/zfhbz
--- Allan Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: Allan Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [evco]: Lithium powered Taxi soon in NYC.
> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:25:27 -0400
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: September 20, 2006 7:03:27 PM EDT (CA)
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Hybrid Technologies Inc.
> >
> > HYBRID TECHNOLOGIES INC. (NASD OTCBB: HYBT) RECEIVES UNANIMOUS
> > APPROVAL FROM NEW YORK CITY TAXI AND LIMOUSINE COMMISSION.
> >
> > GREEN LIGHT GIVEN BY NYC TLC FOR LITHIUM POWERED TAXI.
> >
> > Hybrid Technologies and New York City TLC under Mayor Bloomberg
> > begin ambitious program to introduce lithium powered taxis to the
> > streets of New York, the world's first all lithium taxi to hit the
> > streets of New York after unanimous Taxi and Limousine Commission
> > approval.
> >
> > NEW YORK, NEW YORK - September 18th, 2006 - Hybrid Technologies,
> > Inc. (NASD OTCBB: HYBT) www.hybridtechnologies.com emerging leaders
>
> > in the development and marketing of lithium powered products
> > worldwide proudly announces that after a unanimous Taxi and
> > Limousine Commission vote, Hybrid will now supply a lithium powered
>
> > L-PT Cruiser for use as a NYC Yellow Cab.
> >
> > The vote at a scheduled TLC (Taxi and Limousine Commission) hearing
> > was the result of a long process by both Hybrid and the New York
> > Taxi and Limousine Commission. The program utilizes article 14 of
> > the TLC charters, which allows the introduction of advanced or
> > experimental innovations. Taxi Commissioner Mathew Daus, under
> > Mayor Bloomberg's administration as well as other Taxi and
> > Limousine Commission members, were given a strong presentation by
> > both the Taxi Commission as well as a top Hybrid Technologies
> > Executive.
> >
> > The public hearing commenced at 10:00 a.m. and concluded shortly
> > after 11 a.m. with several other major issues addressed and voted
> > on included a proposed fare increase for metered taxi's in New York
> > City.
> >
> > Holly Roseberry, president of Hybrid Technologies stated, "On
> > behalf of Hybrid Technologies I would like to thank Mayor
> > Bloomberg's administration for being forward thinking in respect to
>
> > emerging environmental technology. Chairman Mathew Daus and the
> > board of commissioners' approval of this project, speaks volumes
> > about the pro-active nature of the TLC. We are honored to work with
>
> > them on this ground breaking project, as we all know if you can
> > make it in New York, you can make it anywhere."
> >
> > Comments such as the iconic NYC Yellow Cab going green and New York
>
> > City being the first to put into service a fully lithium taxi was
> > the buzz at the public hearing. With a green light and approval,
> > Hybrid Technologies will put into service a fully converted L-PT
> > Cruiser. Hybrid selected to utilize Daimler Chryslers PT Cruiser
> > after several meetings with the New York City Taxi Commission.
> >
> > The all lithium taxi will be hitting the streets of New York City
> > within the next two months. It is anticipated that the L version
> > taxi will also be used to highlight the Yellow Cabs 100th
> > Anniversary in NYC which commences in 2007.
> >
> > Ballard Power Systems 312V 67 MS electric drive system has been
> > selected for the NYC lithium taxi due to its design and durability.
> >
> > About Hybrid Technologies Inc www.hybridtechnologies.com
> >
> > Hybrid Technologies Inc. (OTCBB: HYBT) is an emerging leader in the
> > development and marketing of lithium powered products worldwide.
> > Superior technology coupled with aggressive marketing positions
> > Hybrid Technologies to lead the world into pollution free, zero
> > emissions living without consumers having to give up the comforts
> > and performance to which they are accustomed. Homes, automobiles,
> > motorcycles, scooters, bicycles, mopeds, watercraft, military
> > applications and many other essential products have been
> > successfully converted to lithium power.
> >
> > Media Contact888-HYBTECH (888-492-8324)Fax:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Investor Contact
> >
> > Telephone (888) 669-1808
> >
> > Fax: (702) 926-9508
> >
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Forward-Looking Statements
> >
> > This press release may include forward-looking statements within
> > the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and
> > Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. These
> > statements are based on the Company's current expectations as to
> > future events. However, the forward looking events and
> > circumstances discussed in this press release might not occur, and
> > actual results could differ materially from those anticipated or
> > implied in the forward-looking statements.
> >
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Go, Dennis! I'll be downloading that video soon. I think it's great
that you're dueling like this with the gassers.
Jude Anthony
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Current Eliminator is ranked 2nd in the NHRA Summit regular season points
in the super pro class at speedworld.I am out of 1st by 1 round. We are still
qualified for the race of champions in Bakersfield Ca. oct 13 to the 15th.
A film of the CE racing the ices and
there comments can be downloaded at KUAT Tucson with an RSS reader.
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike
You're not entirely alone. Bob Rice is down in Killingly (Killingworth?), one
of those places. I'm
up in Canton. You can't be too far. Where in the state are you? Bob has been
hosting the local EAA
meeting lately, about once a month. That's a good place to meet your EV
neighbors.
Dave Cover
--- Michael Trefry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm in CT.
>
> I haven't seen much of an EV movement up here. Not much in the way of
> alternative energy at all.
>
> The only thing I've seen in this area is NG vehicles.
>
> Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Sep 2006 at 5:04, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> just put 2 runs of that romex(although I have a 100amp sub panel
> installed in my garage and they used romex that I think is larger than
> 6) Just parallel them on the lugs
Don't do it! Parallel conductor wiring is a code violation in sizes less
than 1/0. (See 310-4). I don't know the rationale for that, but it would
be an instant "this was wired by an amateur" red flag for a home inspector
when you went to sell your house.
Besides, terminals in residential panels are usually designed for only one
conductor.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I got through
=====================
From: "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2006/09/26 Tue AM 11:49:31 CDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2
Dead Link...
Pedroman:
I emailed the company and received a reply. I have posted this at:
http://www.electricsmart.com/knockoff.htm
Interesting to say the least. I'll keep everyone updated.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom: I'm sure you know how EBay works. It's become a game for sellers, who
really know how to play the game. They don't have to be rip off artists, but
the same tricks work for them.
Take for instance mural (tile) floors. They start at a very low price. Now
you bid and find you are getting a $500 tile set for $75. Suddenly, the
price is up to $135. Notice the buyer's name. Go back to successful buyers,
and you'll find they *all* paid over $135 for similar sets. Follow the link
to bid history... and you may see this same buyer had boosted prices on
numerous ads. OK... he could be legit and just buying up bargains in tiles.
Ebay won't accept this as proof. Look at names that have given this dude
positive feedback... and see his buying record. Ah, so he's boosting prices
for 2 or 3 names, all of the same product. Look at his location... and he's
also in the same location as the seller.
That's an easy one to find. Now, if the sellers don't give their shill the
positive feedbacks, they are probably still receiving positive feedbacks
from certain people. That's harder to track.
When Ebay bans "Imacheat.com" as a seller, he simply goes to his other
active accounts for sales (competing against himself previously) so sales go
through "scamartist.com". If they also caught him, and the shill name, they
activate a sleeper account or two.
BTW, EBay's guarantees aren't worth the pixels they are written on. All a
seller has to do is string you along with false promises for over 30 days,
then your chance or reclamation of money is almost zero. That's why some
will offer good refunds, then back out (eg: return the product in its
original packaging for a 50% refund) and so forth. Ebay tries somewhat, and
their computers could catch 80% of these shill artists, but they don't care
until it's shoved in their face.
No hijacked accounts. Most deadbeats have multiples... and even reputable
companies have backup names, just in case they get caught shaving the
figures. A sniffer on the line (or monitoring a email signup) would tell
them when a user is opening multiple accounts.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Watson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2
> Something really isn't right here!
>
> I found out after trying to contact the seller of earlier ebay add
> that lhscheer91 the seller has disappeared now there is another name
> that comes up ... I think he had hijacked the account and got caught!
>
> he has now migrated to the other id(probably also hijacked!)jayreal50
> (0) the same ID who bid on the earlier add and I'd bet the first
> few(or maby all) bids on these new adds were from other hijacked
> accounts of his... imagine buying a car for 7000 that you can't look
> at and the seller has 0 rating! and he never reply's to the questions
> through ebay! He has taken his photo's from a chinese web page. he
> fudges his discription and again gives no vin number. he also doubles
> his adds and he want's to be paid by certified check or money order.
> I hope no one has gotten caught up in the bs from this guy. Yikes!
> Does anybody know what those knockoff smart cars sell for from that
> chinese company? he is obviously fishing trying to put together a
> realistic add that won't be realized(notice his "adjustments")
> T
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--- Begin Message ---
I have permission to salvage parts off of a Hyster Hi-Racker that is
destined for the scrap dealer. It is a 72 volt unit with 2 motor in wheel
units and three hydraulic pump motors.
The pump motors are labeled as 72 volt and a CAV brand. The wheel motors
are labeled 36/48 volt and also CAV brand.
There is also a GE EV1 controller on the unit.
I have posted pictures of the wheel motors and 2 of the pump motors at
http://www.indele.com/hyster_hi.htm The pictures are thumbnailed so the page
should load quickly. The third pump motor is tucked farther into the
machine and I can't see a nameplate however it is just at 8" diameter.
Are any/all of these parts worth salvaging for either an EV or for a
forklift shop? I expect the EV1 may be of interest to someone.
respectfully,
John
58 Harley Servi-car in progress (its in the paint shop now)
www.indele.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The electrical contractor will normally install non-metallic cable that
comes in sizes up to No. AWG 4/0 4 conductor.
There is two ways that they can install this service cable. One is a
non-trip circuit breaker that has the same rating as of the mains, that is
install as a branch breaker.
If the sub panel is more than 30 feet from the main panel, then the sub
panel needs a main breaker, rated the same as the main.
The second way, is use a magnetic trip branch breaker that is less ampere
than the main, and the non-metallic cable and the sub-panel will be at the
same ampere rating.
The third is what we normally recommended, because a residential main panel
may not have room to install a main branch breaker, that takes up six
spaces, is to replace the meter base with a 200 amp combination meter base
and two or more 2 pole spaces for mains.
One main breaker then will feed the existing panel, and the second main
breaker will feed the new garage panel.
You can have up to six 2 pole main circuit breakers off the service
entrance.
Lets say both sub panels, the existing one and the new garage one, are 125
amp rating and they are more than 30 feet from the main, both of these
panels must have its own main circuit breaker.
If the run is less than 100 feet, both 125 amp panels can be wire with A No.
2 copper wire, type THWN, 90 Degree C. rated wire, that must match the 90
degree C. terminal lugs in the panel.
They will normally will use stranded aluminum service entrance cable in a
No. AWG 1/0 rated at 75 Degree C, the next two size larger if the distance
is about 100 feet.
Both service cables for a 125 amp panel are rated for 125 amps or must be
125% over the rated ampere of the panel load. Both panels should be limited
to 100 amps load. If one is a 100 amp panel, then the load should be limited
to about 75 amps.
You use the 125% factor through out the circuit, the feeder, the mains at
125 amps, if you want full ampere potential at each panel.
The preferred maximum on a 20 amp circuit breaker should be 16 amps, a 30
amp at 24 amps, a 50 at 42 amps, a 60 amp is 48 amps, a 100 amp is 75 amp
and a 125 amp panel and circuit breaker is 100 amps.
A PFC-50 dial up to 50 amps DC is 45 amps AC. I been using a 2 pole 50 amp
10,000 interrupting rated breaker on my 50 amp chargers for over 30 years.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: Getting the garage electrical up to EV snuff
> On 26 Sep 2006 at 5:04, Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> > just put 2 runs of that romex(although I have a 100amp sub panel
> > installed in my garage and they used romex that I think is larger than
> > 6) Just parallel them on the lugs
>
> Don't do it! Parallel conductor wiring is a code violation in sizes less
> than 1/0. (See 310-4). I don't know the rationale for that, but it would
> be an instant "this was wired by an amateur" red flag for a home inspector
> when you went to sell your house.
>
> Besides, terminals in residential panels are usually designed for only one
> conductor.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was in touch with KUAT and was told that because of Politics the piece on
Dennis was postponed again. I was told that they will have it on for tomorrow,
Weds and it should be on the website that evening ( www.kuat.org )
I'm really looking forward to seeing the CE on the TV!
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:16 AM
Subject: Re:Current Eliminator news
> The Current Eliminator is ranked 2nd in the NHRA Summit regular season points
> in the super pro class at speedworld.I am out of 1st by 1 round. We are still
> qualified for the race of champions in Bakersfield Ca. oct 13 to the 15th.
> A film of the CE racing the ices and
> there comments can be downloaded at KUAT Tucson with an RSS reader.
>
> Dennis Berube
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I have a 144V pack of US 145s that is about a year
old. Ive been using the 2.583Vper cell number
provided by US battery at 80C to get a finish voltage
of 186V. Im using a PFC-20 and all has been well for
about a year. The pack sees light cycles, 8 miles each
way with a charge at both ends. It has seen a dozen
or so deeper cycles but never below 80% discharge.
Last week I charged the pack to 186, no problem,
constant voltage entered, timer started and the
charger shut down. The next morning I watered the
batteries and drove two or three miles on the pack and
fired the charger up figuring it would be a equalizing
charge. The charger never shut off, it ran all night
at 10 amps. I drove it to work and back the next
morning, and fired the charger up again. I kept an eye
on things and the voltage never reached 186V to
trigger the CV stage. I ended up having to lower the
voltage set point to 175V. It was OK for a couple of
days and then again wouldnt reach the CV stage. I had
been charging @ 10 to 12 amps. The voltage would go up
if I cranked the current up. I charged without
incident to 175V using the higher amperage setting of
18 to 20 amps. This worked OK for a week, today I ran
into the same problem even with the higher current
setting. The rest voltage is typically 154V, it rises
to 173 or so volts and stops. I checked the voltage
right after an 8 mile run, all the batteries read 6.3V
+/- .03.
Any guesses? I know Im supposed to kill my first
pack, but Ive been being careful. Ive limited the
current draw to 350A max and the voltage to 130V
minimum. I have run the truck at the low voltage limit
occasionally, but not for any extended period of time
and the voltage always comes back immediately after
the load is taken off.
Any and all help would be appreciated.
TiM 61 Rampside pickup
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check the battery temperatures - I suspect you're heating them up. This
lowers the finish voltage. They may be going into thermal runaway.
Others will no doubt disagree, but I think US Battery's recommended finish
voltage is too high. I use 2.5 volts per cell for new batteries, gradually
reducing it as they age.
Also, unless you've added some goodies to that PFC charger, you don't have
temperature compensation, so you should (theoretically) be tweaking the
finish voltage to match the batteries' internal temperature.
A better and safer (IMO) approach is to use DV/DT instead of absolute
voltage. Get the voltage above 2.3 to 2.4 volts per cell and then wait for
the voltage to stop rising. If it begins to >fall< , stop right away.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
In light of John Griggs discovery, I think I'm the one that owes you
(and others, such as Mr. Willmon) an apology. It hadn't occurred to me
that Outlook doesn't (properly) support threading. There's no way you
could have been aware.
Sorry about that.
-- Eric
[N.B. Outlook _does_ indeed put "in-reply-to" and "references" headers
in it's outgoing messages when replying, but it does not honor them in
messages it receives. Yahoo mail seems to not set these fields at all.]
Michael Trefry wrote:
Sorry, I thought that changing the Subject would de-link it from the
previous message.
I will create new mails from this point.
Sorry :(
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Found my donor car - needs heat
Mike, what does this have to do with suppression diodes?
Please make a new message for new topics rather than replying to
existing threads. Hitting reply links your reply to the message you
clicked on, and it appears in the "Switch protection" thread.
Michael Trefry wrote:
I found my donor car!!!!
And I'm picking it up this weekend.
A 1972 Porsche 914 in excellent condition, running, very little rust, just
a
spot on the engine mount bar.
Running is great, since I'm not yet ready to start on this without more
knowledge and info, but winter is coming soon and one of the few things
that
is wrong with this car is that the heat doesn't work.
So for my first electrical project with this car, I was thinking of
installing an electric heater.
What do you folks use in your EVs?
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmmm a little cheap shot at the Tango.............LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Tesla Yahoo News Story
> WOW
> 0-60 in 4 secs
> looks HOOOOTTT
>
> ouch, 100k dollars
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:03 PM
> Subject: Tesla Yahoo News Story
>
>
> >
<http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?&vid=c860df3ccf66c83fb61bb2ffd934330b.889
183&cache=1>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They have two and three axis compasses. I'm looking to buy a unit and I've
settled I think on a Magellan Explorist 300 or 400. Not much difference
but I can get the 300 for 126 dollars at Walmart.com. It also has altitude
& barometer. Updates every second. Better units update 5 times a second.
The Magelan explorist series use 14 satellites. Some units use 21. Anybody
have a recommendation that would work well with our EV's........Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: GPS as speed and distance log. 0 to 60 time measurement
> I would expect the external unit would have an arrow printed on it to
> point forward, but your point is well taken.
>
> Mark Fowler wrote:
> > I don't think any of the external GPS units have an on board compass.
> > Think about it.
> > An external unit (serial or usb) can be oriented in ANY direction
> > relative to the base unit (laptop, pda, whatever), so any compass
> > readings would be wrong.
> > However, pretty much all GPS software can determine the direction (and
> > speed) of movement simply by comparing the current position with the
> > previous.
> >
> > Having said that, some all-in-one GPS units may indeed have an
> > electronic compass built in, which would be useful when hiking through
> > GPS-unfriendly terrain like heavy forest or a narrow ravines, or when
> > the device is first turned on before it gets a satellite lock.
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 27 September 2006 12:45 AM
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Subject: Re: GPS as speed and distance log. 0 to 60 time measurement
> >>
> >>
> >> Jukka,
> >>
> >> Can you recommend any good GPS chips/devices that are
> >> serial/USB capable
> >> that also have an on-board compass? And (preferrably) for cheap?
> >>
> >> -- Eric
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/27/06, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Lock,
The issue here is that this Chinese company made an
unauthorized (illegal) copy of the Mercedes Smart car
styling.
Cor, who says it's "illegal"?
There may be a breach of copyright in "look and feel" terms, but that
car is no carbon copy of the Smart. It's DaimlerChrysler by the way,
not Mercedes. And as for them offering it for sale in North America,
is the real Smart car even available there? If not, I don't really
see the problem, as long as they don't try to pass it off as a real
Smart.
and are trying to sell it without providing any
proof that it can be driven on US highways
This is true, but what of it? They are not *hiding* the fact that it
doesn't have a VIN number and so on.
or even that the cars are actually available (the answer by the rep
indicated that they can be imported by the containerload)
Available means "item exists".
and they ave deliberately mis-represented these cars by
putting "Smart City car" in the advertisement text, which
has since been modified.
I agree that's a bit cheeky, the ebay ads do look a bit fishy in general.
Thay show the car on the street, suggesting that it can
be driven on public streets,
But it can. What's the problem?
The buyers (if they receive a car at all) will likely have
to wait until their money order has financed the import
from China by container, after which they can enjoy
driving their $15,000 golf cart around on their own property
$5360 isn't it?
That is a far cry from the claims in the advertisement and
the image that the Smart Car has, which is a Freeway capable
vehicle, manufactured by a very reliable company (Mercedes).
As EV community, we should put some effort in exposing and
even stopping scams like this, enabling the victims to
be informed beforehand and pointing them to the infringements
so they can file their case if it is already too late.
I think this case actually allows both Mercedes to file for
infringement on their styling as well as any unhappy buyers
to file with the FBI for misleading representation of goods.
I am not a lawyer, though and if this would happen to me,
then I would certainly like to know in advance if anyone
has more info on the background of the seller and the
You know, they're offering an EV which may suit some peoples needs and budget.
An *affordable* city EV. Why try to stop it? What do you care
whether DaimlerChrysler might be upset about it?
I agree that anyone considering getting one should consider what
they're doing carefully, and research whether they will be able to
register it if they need to first.
But rather than try to shut them out, personally I think "we" should
offer to help the factory - tell them that their sales tactics have
been rubbish so far. Advise them about registration options and what
they should be telling potential customers. Help them get it right.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:23 PM 26/09/06 -0700, John wrote:
I have permission to salvage parts off of a Hyster Hi-Racker that is
destined for the scrap dealer. It is a 72 volt unit with 2 motor in wheel
units and three hydraulic pump motors.
Yes, yes, get!!
Wheel motors are probably too much trouble to use, but the EV1, Contactors,
non-wheel motors, look for a DC/DC converter, too. Cables may be useful, if
not too corroded.
EV1 will do for a light car, a bike or a trike, not necessarily with one of
the motors from this, though. But yes, get, if not for yourself, then
another EVer.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evan,
They can't get it right after they copied the looks of a Smart,
which is a very severe infringement and any time they do
establish a business in the US trying to sell these fancy
looking golf cars, DaimlerChrysler will sue the heck out of them.
They know - that's why they try to do this fishy deal via Ebay
instead of playing it open.
If you want to know if the Smarts are sold here, why not visit
SmartUSA.com?
How do I know it's illegal? If you borrow your friend's DVD
and make a bunch of copies that you sell on Ebay, what do
you think if that's illegal?
And what if you put in the ad that it is not the original
DVD, so you are honest about your copy? Come on, you know
what is honest and what not - making a copy of a protected
(brand/styling/work/etc) and very costly to develop thing
(not just the design, but also the marketing and quality
image, supported by the manufacturer of the Smart) is a
dishonest act, which they will learn very soon.
Note that the initial ads for this electric car not only
mentioned that is was a "Smart" but also had a fake VIN (!)
The bidder on those ads is the current seller (!)
The description shows not only required information missing
but also grossly exaggerated figures, for example for range.
There are many more red flags to know this is a dishonest
business, so you may throw your energy at them to try to
get it right, but I think that stopping them is the best
way to tell them they are on the wrong track.
I emailed some of the bidders with the background info and
one of them who was bidding on 2 cars emailed me and thanked
me that I would care for a stranger - he was mislead by the
description, I presume that he thought he was bidding on a
road-worthy vehicle of the Smart quality, not a golf cart.
Since the cars likely have not been imported into the US,
they cannot be allowed on public streets, I do not
understand why you say they can.
I did not hear from the $15,000 bidder (janvanangel) but I
doubt that he knew he purchased a golf cart from China.
(That auction was the only one that exceeded the reserve.)
What I want to prevent is that EVs get a bad name from
some crooks trying to sell some illegal warez, if they
deliver them at all. And if they do, the desillusion will
be just as strong as the actual performance is not a
shadow of the suggested performance.
Guess what will happen? Those customers will never think
positive about an EV again.
That is why I want to stop such crime in progress.
You may not care and consider it none of your business,
that is your right. But do not be mistaken about the
intentions of this business, or it will do much damage.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: China Knock-offs (Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2)
On 9/27/06, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Lock,
>
> The issue here is that this Chinese company made an
> unauthorized (illegal) copy of the Mercedes Smart car
> styling.
Cor, who says it's "illegal"?
There may be a breach of copyright in "look and feel" terms, but that
car is no carbon copy of the Smart. It's DaimlerChrysler by the way,
not Mercedes. And as for them offering it for sale in North America,
is the real Smart car even available there? If not, I don't really
see the problem, as long as they don't try to pass it off as a real
Smart.
> and are trying to sell it without providing any
> proof that it can be driven on US highways
This is true, but what of it? They are not *hiding* the fact that it
doesn't have a VIN number and so on.
> or even that the cars are actually available (the answer by the rep
> indicated that they can be imported by the containerload)
Available means "item exists".
> and they ave deliberately mis-represented these cars by
> putting "Smart City car" in the advertisement text, which
> has since been modified.
I agree that's a bit cheeky, the ebay ads do look a bit fishy in general.
> Thay show the car on the street, suggesting that it can
> be driven on public streets,
But it can. What's the problem?
>
> The buyers (if they receive a car at all) will likely have
> to wait until their money order has financed the import
> from China by container, after which they can enjoy
> driving their $15,000 golf cart around on their own property
$5360 isn't it?
> That is a far cry from the claims in the advertisement and
> the image that the Smart Car has, which is a Freeway capable
> vehicle, manufactured by a very reliable company (Mercedes).
>
> As EV community, we should put some effort in exposing and
> even stopping scams like this, enabling the victims to
> be informed beforehand and pointing them to the infringements
> so they can file their case if it is already too late.
>
> I think this case actually allows both Mercedes to file for
> infringement on their styling as well as any unhappy buyers
> to file with the FBI for misleading representation of goods.
> I am not a lawyer, though and if this would happen to me,
> then I would certainly like to know in advance if anyone
> has more info on the background of the seller and the
You know, they're offering an EV which may suit some peoples needs and
budget.
An *affordable* city EV. Why try to stop it? What do you care
whether DaimlerChrysler might be upset about it?
I agree that anyone considering getting one should consider what
they're doing carefully, and research whether they will be able to
register it if they need to first.
But rather than try to shut them out, personally I think "we" should
offer to help the factory - tell them that their sales tactics have
been rubbish so far. Advise them about registration options and what
they should be telling potential customers. Help them get it right.
--- End Message ---
