EV Digest 5953
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Hot, stinky motor. What does it mean?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Zapi controllers, usable regen?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Build EV For Someone Else
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Battery boxes
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery boxes
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Production EV, was RE: Build EV For Someone Else
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Importing Kit Cars & Curtis' question
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Battery boxes
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery boxes
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Battery boxes
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Dragtimes
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery boxes ( not vehicle weight vs range)
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) article: Zero tolerance
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Build EV For Someone Else
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Zapi controllers, usable regen?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: article: Zero tolerance
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) article: The =?windows-1252?Q?world=92s_first_commercially-a?=
=?windows-1252?Q?vailable_electric-solar_hybrid=2C_and_a_sport?=
=?windows-1252?Q?y_one_at_that?=
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) article: The first energy-autonomous vehicle
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Zilla controls backordered?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Build EV For Someone Else
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Battery boxes
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery boxes
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Zilla controls backordered?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Zilla controls backordered?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
No motor gauge.
> Do you have a motor current gage? I don't see one
> in
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/542.html, but if you
> do, have you been keeping your motor current below
> its
> 5 minute and one hour ratings?
Under spec. Hmmm. Had been told that running in 1st
gear at 30 would mean lower amps than 2nd @ 30, which
is why I drove that way. But through experimentation,
I don't necessarily agree with the accuracy of that
statement now.
I don't see 8" specs
> for 144V like you are running, but since the 96V and
> 120V specs are similar between 8" and 9", you should
> probably be staying below 320A over 5 minutes and
> below 185A over 1 hour, per the 9" 144V specs.
>
> I find that even when I keep the RPMs high, it's
> tough
> to climb long, steep, or high speed hills within
> these
> parameters. I also find that motor current is
> usually
> much higher than 144V battery current, which I
> assume
> your E-meter gives you, although the two do get
> closer
> at higher RPMs.
>
I'm usually under 300A from a dead stop on a hill.
Am usually running 40-140A when I drive.
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
The issue is (was?) that Zapi gained bad press a long time ago
when Jerry converted his car, initially with a Curtis, which
had the known issues, then the Zapi H3 which worked until he
tried Regen and blew the H3 and was not able to get it repaired
http://jerryrig.com/convert/step38.html
so he finally went back to a new Curtis.
Since then, things have no doubt changed, but a bad press
sticks around for a long time, especially when it is searchable
on a webpage for everyone to see.
There may be an update to this story as the website was established
10 years ago....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zapi controllers, usable regen?
Chris
I have been running H2's and H3's for several years. I can tell you
that at least in my case, the Zapi takes all I can dish out. I can stop
the Electropolitan from full speed (65-70) mph to a crawl as quick as I
want using regen alone. The AGM's seem to love it.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: Zapi controllers, usable regen?
On Mon, October 2, 2006 5:36 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> ...
> my world record 1.8K Zilla for $100K. Not a bad choice for a light
> weight EV is the 120 volt zapi 800 amp with regen for series motors.
> The regen is real cool on my street car and the controller is
> relatively cheap. Not Zilla performance but enough to run 70+ on the
> freeway and still put you back in the seat at the redlight.
The understanding that I've had about these controllers is that regen
generally doesn't work -- the controllers blow up when you try to use
it,
and so most folks don't bother (or learn the hard way). How many folks
out there are successfully getting regen out of a Zapi into a 120V
pack?
With what motors?
--chris
________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Curtis,
Make sure you have someone covering the CFO function, or you
may get disappointed real soon. The business case is the
*first* thing investers and suppliers will look at.
Sounds like a great adventure!
I agree that it seems the time is coming for EVs!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Curtis Muhlestein
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Build EV For Someone Else
Maybe the following will give you moiré information to what I am trying to
do. I have already contacted the EV'ers here in Northern Utah.
For more than 26 years I have wanted to build an EV. I have been going to
GreenCarCogress.com and other web sites everyday for the past 18 months. It
is very clear to me that with the current advancements in technology that it
is time to build.
I own the domain, DriveElectric.net (currently not up) and the DBA, (doing
business as) Drive Electric here in Utah. I am looking to put together a
team to build and sell EV's. If Tesla Motors, Universal Electric Vehicle
Inc., Mullen Motor Company and Phoenix Motorcars can do it, so can I.
I have a BS in computer science and associate degree in automotive service,
both degrees from Weber State. I currently am working as a senior software
engineer, but I have also designed, drafted and built my own 2 story, 3,700
sq. ft. home.
We are looking for a COO to join our team and be a part of the start-up
process. If you know anyone who would be interested, please have them send
me their resume.
Curtis Muhlestein
President & CEO
Drive Electric
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Build EV For Someone Else
> Money is not the issue at this point in time. I am just trying to get
> different ideas from different people. Price will came later.
>
No, money is the *primary* issue - if you have enough, you *can* get a
>95%-efficient motor and controller, you *can* buy cutting-edge
lithium batteries and BMS, you *can* afford all the other unobtainium
that other listees can only dream about for a ground-up creation, like
access to a wind tunnel, or exotic body materials. That's what many
hundreds of thousands of dollars can buy.
Bottom line: are you a hobbiest who wants to get as much as possible
out of as little money as possible, a converter who wants to do this
as a business, or someone with deep pockets who wants to know what he
can do with all that cash (or somewhere in between)?
There are, of course, those that don't even exist on that continuum,
who are just seeing how much output the list can generate, but have no
desire to do anything with the information supplied. The EVDL gets
them from time to time, as well as argumentative trolls (anyone
remember Troy?) who don't even like EVs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:04 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
Too late :)
I already got the "little" car, and what a beauty she is!
Nevertheless, if I have to go the route of buying pre-engineered boxes I
will, I was just curious as to what was involved in making them and if the
costs were justified. It sounds like the boxes they make are made very well,
I'm not disparaging that at all.
Just hoping I can cut some corners and not turn this into a $20,000 project.
Not sure where you're getting $20k for a total. The whole
Voltsporsche Kit is only $8995, and batteries add about
$1580. That's a little more than half the $20k, and that's COMPLETE
- including racks, boxes, suspension, the works.
Now, if you want to talk about some other, more expensive components
or batteries, then the Voltsporsche racks and boxes are irrelevant,
because they would not work in a different setup.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:01 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
No, what the experts here say is that a heavier car doesn't have
less range, just less acceleration.
What? An S10 will get the same range as a Metro? I don't think so!
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Curtis and All,
Glad you finaly said what you actually wanted.
Now we can actually help you. Once we have the mission,
designing the EV is much easier.
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Build EV For Someone Else
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 17:11:38 -0600
>Maybe the following will give you moiré information to
what
>I am trying to do. I have already contacted the EV'ers
>here in Northern Utah.
>
>For more than 26 years I have wanted to build an EV. I
>have been going to GreenCarCogress.com and other web sites
>everyday for the past 18 months. It is very clear to me
>that with the current advancements in technology that it is
>time to build.
It's been here for at least 20 yrs!!
>
>I own the domain, DriveElectric.net (currently not up) and
>the DBA, (doing business as) Drive Electric here in Utah.
>I am looking to put together a team to build and sell
EVs.
> If Tesla Motors, Universal Electric Vehicle Inc., Mullen
>Motor Company and Phoenix Motorcars can do it, so can I.
Yes you can if you don't blow it like the others
have!! Build a quality, well designed EV and you can make
very good money. Have lots of overhead, unnessasary people,
ect and it won't work. Build a good EV and you won't have to
spend money marketing it as EV buyers will find you.
Building from scratch a production EV to do what
you want is fairly easy and an excellent profit can be made
from it. That is if you do it right.
How to do it is build an all composite body/chassis
for it's lightweight with excellent strength, reasonable
costs. Not to mention a low start up tooling costs. Another
good point is by building it this way, 50-100 parts are
replaced by 2, cutting labor, weight, material costs a lot.
Now you have a monocoque uni-body that only weighs
300 lbs, you need a smaller battery pack, controller to do
the same speeds, accelerations.
I'd bet with 20 orbitals, a Zilla 1K HV and 2 8"
series motors, 1500lbs you will get what speed, range you
want and even more on tap if you want to upgrade with more
batteries and/or controller.
Remember an EV costs by the pound, so keep the
pounds low and you will be both fast and profitable. And
there are 1,000's of fiberglass job shops that would love to
have your steady business doing the glass body parts.
Another way is make a deal with a kitcar company
like Factory 5 to make rolling gliders to your specs, then
finish them in EV. But that's going to be $5k more expensive
than doing it yourself.
The problem is with 4 wheels, you are not going to
be able to sell many finished EV's unless you go full feds
regs which is costly. I'd go the almost finished kit route
like Factory 5, selling it with everything but the motor,
batteries, letting the owner or his mechanic bolt the motor
and battery shop install the batteries.
I'm solving that by going to a 3wh EV sportswagon
for my first production EV. I just epoxied the prototype
body to the chassis to make it a monocoque struture. The
only others doing it this way is Ferrari and Mclaren in
their most expensive street cars. And of course most if not
all F-1, Indy cars.
But to me it's just a 14' powerboat!! I learned
profitable low unit composite construction in the boating
field.
Did you see that woman hit the wall at 160mph last
week in an Indy car where it looked like no way she could
have survived and walked away from it? It was her monocoque
composite body that protected, saved her.
And by keeping overhead down by doing the first
ones at home, I'm putting it into production for $14k!! Not
bad for an EV that sells for $13K !
Jerry Dycus
Freedom EV
>
>I have a BS in computer science and associate degree in
>automotive service, both degrees from Weber State. I
>currently am working as a senior software engineer, but I
>have also designed, drafted and built my own 2 story, 3,700
>sq. ft. home.
>
>We are looking for a COO to join our team and be a part of
>the start-up process. If you know anyone who would be
>interested, please have them send me their resume.
>
>Curtis Muhlestein
>President & CEO
>Drive Electric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi
I was reading these two threads and decided the one(on curtis's
question) could be answered by this thread... design an areodynamic
body/frame to have built in china and install all the parts that are
subject to FMVSS here. This solution should give you a lower cost
glider, built to house the EV required motor, batteries and
controller, and it would be new! and maby sporty with good range?and
the right # of passengers for your application!
T
-----------snip------------
Back to Curtis' question. Look at
<http://www.acpropulsion.com/>.
Their Tzero kit car does what you want on lead acid batteries. They
also built a Honda Civic that almost did what you want (I think 0-60
was 6 seconds?).
The Tango also does it:
<http://www.commutercars.com/>
I'm not sure it is legally a car, but here is another 4 wheeled
vehicle that does it:
<http://www.wrightspeed.com/>
I am a little surprised none of the above cars goes for full aero,
like the EV1 did. That might be a niche for a new manufacturer. If
Firefly succeeds, someday we'll have cheap lead acid batteries that
are 1/3 the weight -- wouldn't that be cool! I wouldn't design to
that just yet, though!
-----------snip------------
From: Eddie
To: Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Importing Kit Cars
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/FAQ%20Site/pages/page2.html
10. Importing a disassembled vehicle.
A disassembled vehicle that is shipped without an engine and
transmission is treated for importation purposes not as a motor
vehicle, but instead as an assemblage of motor vehicle equipment
items. Such an assemblage can lawfully be imported into the U.S.,
provided any equipment included in the assemblage that is subject to
FMVSS, but was not originally manufactured to comply with that FMVSS
or was not so certified by its original manufacturer, is removed from
the assemblage prior to entry into the U.S. Equipment items that are
subject to the FMVSS include tires, rims, brake hoses, brake fluid,
seat belt assemblies, glazing materials, and lamps, reflective
devices, and associated equipment.
If the assemblage is shipped with an engine and power train (even if
those components are not installed), it would be regarded for
importation purposes as a motor vehicle, and would have to be either
manufactured to comply with all applicable FMVSS, and be so certified
by its original manufacturer, in the form of a label permanently
affixed to the vehicle, or be determined eligible for importation by
NHTSA and be imported by an RI or by a person who has a contract with
an RI to bring the vehicle into compliance with all applicable FMVSS
after importation.
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
2b. Re: Bringing electric cars into the country as a kit???
Posted by: "Eddie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] eddiecolumbus
Date: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:48 am (PDT)
My recollection of the info published on the web site where you can
learn about importing things said a car was a car, whether assembled
or not (some time ago).
The Woodbury's used the kit function to sell their cars in this
country & to sidestep DOT rules. Do you know the power behind the
rule you are talking about or where to access it? Thanks. Lawrence Rhodes.......
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ahh but the kit and the batteries are only a portion of the costs involved.
I've got the car ($4600) and some mechanical things to do, such stiffen the
rear suspension, some minor restoration tasks, install a heater, this is the
North East after all,
Things add up quickly :)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Electro Automotive
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Battery boxes
At 02:04 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
>Too late :)
>
>I already got the "little" car, and what a beauty she is!
>
>Nevertheless, if I have to go the route of buying pre-engineered boxes I
>will, I was just curious as to what was involved in making them and if the
>costs were justified. It sounds like the boxes they make are made very
well,
>I'm not disparaging that at all.
>
>Just hoping I can cut some corners and not turn this into a $20,000
project.
Not sure where you're getting $20k for a total. The whole
Voltsporsche Kit is only $8995, and batteries add about
$1580. That's a little more than half the $20k, and that's COMPLETE
- including racks, boxes, suspension, the works.
Now, if you want to talk about some other, more expensive components
or batteries, then the Voltsporsche racks and boxes are irrelevant,
because they would not work in a different setup.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Phil Marino"
That may be true, but a larger car will require more batteries for the same
range and performance as a smaller car. And, that expense will be greater
for every new pack, not just once.
Good point.
A larger car may also require a larger motor, controller, and DC-DC
converter, as well as using more electricity
And it gets even better than that. In a smaller, lighter car the
motor has an easy life. There's far less chance of overheating it,
even if you push it really hard. Also the controller has a much easier
life and runs cooler; this translates into longer life. The batteries
also have a much easier job and last longer. In EVs, weight is an
even bigger enemy than poor aerodynamics.
...John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What the experts are saying is that range is not linear
with the inverse of the weight.
So, twice as heavy is not half the range.
But it sure is less for a heavier than for a lighter vehicle.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Electro Automotive
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery boxes
At 03:01 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
>No, what the experts here say is that a heavier car doesn't have
>less range, just less acceleration.
What? An S10 will get the same range as a Metro? I don't think so!
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wrote this post this morning. It never showed up on the List,
but I did get Mark's Spam arrest message right away. This
didn't get posted, did it?
----------------------
Speaking of which, shouldnt we all be voting for killacycle at dragtimes.com?!
It still has a chance to be vehicle of the month!
http://www.dragtimes.com/Dragster-Motorcycle-Timeslip-7621.html
I just cast my vote. Now if we can just get the word Electric
in the title of Bill's bike. It currently reads "Dragster Motorcycle Killacycle"
and it would be nice if everyone knew at a glance that it was electric,
especially with the blistering 152 mph speed posted, faster than just about
all of the gassers. Hmmm, I see a Mustang coming up the list that does
159 in the 1/8th mile and 204 in the quarter! We should be able to beat
that with a capictor-stiffened pack of lithiums.
So there's no more EVs left after Bill's (that I'm aware of), who
wants to be next? How about Father Time......
I don't know if it's how I have my monitor set or what, but the
confirmation numbers are extremely easy to read. I keep my Contrast
cranked up all the way, then adjust the Brightness until I just barely
achieve an absolute black on the color palette.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack -
I'm not an expert, but I disagree with you.
The size and weight of the car directly affects the range. It takes more
energy to accelerate a heavier car to a given speed, and more power to keep
it moving at that speed. So, of course, the same batteries will give you
less range with a heavier car.
And as to the weight of the donor having little effect on the weight of the
comlete EV, was that just a typo?
Phil
From: Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery boxes
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:01:38 -0700
No, what the experts here say is that a heavier car doesn't have less
range, just less acceleration.
And the size of the glider means little compared to the weight of the
batteries. If you want to propel less weight around the planet, use NiMH
batteries instead of lead.
Jack
Phil Marino wrote:
From: Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery boxes
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:00:00 -0700
I would suggest consideration of a car to convert that doesn't require
engineered battery boxes might put you ahead on costs. For example, a car
that has a big trunk. And might not also need suspension upgrades.
These little cars that are always recommended have hidden costs..
Jack
That may be true, but a larger car will require more batteries for the
same range and performance as a smaller car. And, that expense will be
greater for every new pack, not just once.
A larger car may also require a larger motor, controller, and DC-DC
converter, as well as using more electricity (admittedly a small part of
the cost of ev ownership) per mile. And, that additional electric grid
power will probably result in more greenhouse gasses and other pollutants.
If the purpose of converting a car to electric power is to reduce the ill
effects of driving on the world ( and, I understand that there are other
reason, also) then a smaller car would help serve that purpose.
Phil
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electric Audi R-Zero concept car, won't ever be made, but you may still
find it interesting:
http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2006/10/stories/01/1.html
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Maybe the following will give you moiré information to what I am
trying to
> do. I have already contacted the EV'ers here in Northern Utah.
>
> For more than 26 years I have wanted to build an EV. I have been
going to
> GreenCarCogress.com and other web sites everyday for the past 18
months. It
> is very clear to me that with the current advancements in technology
that it
> is time to build.
>
> I own the domain, DriveElectric.net (currently not up) and the DBA,
(doing
> business as) Drive Electric here in Utah. I am looking to put
together a
> team to build and sell EV's. If Tesla Motors, Universal Electric
Vehicle
> Inc., Mullen Motor Company and Phoenix Motorcars can do it, so can I.
>
> I have a BS in computer science and associate degree in automotive
service,
> both degrees from Weber State. I currently am working as a senior
software
> engineer, but I have also designed, drafted and built my own 2
story, 3,700
> sq. ft. home.
>
> We are looking for a COO to join our team and be a part of the start-up
> process. If you know anyone who would be interested, please have
them send
> me their resume.
>
> Curtis Muhlestein
> President & CEO
> Drive Electric
>
I glad you gave us "moiré" information and made your intentions clear.
Now you'll have more input that you care to read. What market are
you aiming for, and what kind of investment funds do you have access
to? The Tesla and X-1 cover the expensive sports car end, and the
Xebra the cheap underpowered Chinese junk section. What do you want to
sell?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor, you're absolutely right about this. I researched controllers a few years
agoand assumed that Zapi wasn't an option because of the bad PR from a few
years before that. I hope some more Zapi drivers will pipe up with their
experiences.
Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The issue is (was?) that Zapi
gained bad press a long time ago
when Jerry converted his car, initially with a Curtis, which
had the known issues, then the Zapi H3 which worked until he
tried Regen and blew the H3 and was not able to get it repaired
http://jerryrig.com/convert/step38.html
so he finally went back to a new Curtis.
Since then, things have no doubt changed, but a bad press
sticks around for a long time, especially when it is searchable
on a webpage for everyone to see.
There may be an update to this story as the website was established
10 years ago....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 4:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zapi controllers, usable regen?
Chris
I have been running H2's and H3's for several years. I can tell you
that at least in my case, the Zapi takes all I can dish out. I can stop
the Electropolitan from full speed (65-70) mph to a crawl as quick as I
want using regen alone. The AGM's seem to love it.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: Zapi controllers, usable regen?
On Mon, October 2, 2006 5:36 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> ...
> my world record 1.8K Zilla for $100K. Not a bad choice for a light
> weight EV is the 120 volt zapi 800 amp with regen for series motors.
> The regen is real cool on my street car and the controller is
> relatively cheap. Not Zilla performance but enough to run 70+ on the
> freeway and still put you back in the seat at the redlight.
The understanding that I've had about these controllers is that regen
generally doesn't work -- the controllers blow up when you try to use
it,
and so most folks don't bother (or learn the hard way). How many folks
out there are successfully getting regen out of a Zapi into a 120V
pack?
With what motors?
--chris
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small
Business.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excuse me, but aren't the Brazilians planning same... ok, v.similar?
http://www.obvio.ind.br/obviona/012.htm
:)
Lock
Toronto
Hyman/Electric Hybrid
--- Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Electric Audi R-Zero concept car, won't ever be made, but you may
> still find it interesting:
http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2006/10/stories/01/1.html
> Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another unique design from Venturi:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/6256/
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And Venturi also comes at us again with something very strange looking,
but scheduled for production at an affordable price:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/6240/
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who is selling the Zapi? What kind of price? I've heard they have problems
handling the regen function & self destruct. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
> Michael,
>
> As Mr Clunn said everything has a price. However, as the proud owner
> of the world's quickest motor controller from D. Berubi's legendary 8.8
> sec dragster I think of Otmar as a hippie flavored Smokey Yunick or Big
> Daddy Don. I still think contactors are faster but wouldn't part with
> my world record 1.8K Zilla for $100K. Not a bad choice for a light
> weight EV is the 120 volt zapi 800 amp with regen for series motors.
> The regen is real cool on my street car and the controller is
> relatively cheap. Not Zilla performance but enough to run 70+ on the
> freeway and still put you back in the seat at the redlight.
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Trefry"
> > So I've decided to go DC to allow the maximum flexibility of tweaking
> and
> > tuning.
>
> > I just visited the Zilla web-site, and it looks like the controllers
> are
> > backordered over 6 months.
> >
> It kind of like the EV1 we got a taste of something so good , but now
> the well seem dry .
>
> >
> > What are the chances of finding a used Zilla, and would I want to?
>
> I'd like to see one on e bay , just to see how much it goes for . As
> they say everything has a price ,
> I'd sell my used 1k 156v used zilla for 4k , ya I wouldn't buy a use
> one for that , maybe 2500 , . My 2 k , $10,000 , ,, maybe ,
> Its like oil , when you can't get it , the price goes to the moon .
> Thing is , hi prices like this would stop allot of people from getting
> into Ev's ,
>
> > Are there any other controllers AS good for the EV hobbyist?
> >
> not that I've seen , maybe if I paint a curtis green it will work
> better, got to do something .
> Steve Clunn
>
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
> security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
> across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Moiré:
http://www.mathematik.com/Moire/
http://images.google.com/images?q=moire
(Wikipedia) A moiré pattern is an interference pattern
created, for example, when two grids are overlaid at an
angle, or when they have slightly different mesh sizes.
Seriously,
It is great that you have such an amount of hands-on
experience and have background knowledge and the domain.
However, which direction you should go is best explored
by making different business cases and selecting the
one that you deem to be the best.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 8:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Build EV For Someone Else
> Maybe the following will give you moiré information to what I am
trying to
> do. I have already contacted the EV'ers here in Northern Utah.
>
> For more than 26 years I have wanted to build an EV. I have been
going to
> GreenCarCogress.com and other web sites everyday for the past 18
months. It
> is very clear to me that with the current advancements in technology
that it
> is time to build.
>
> I own the domain, DriveElectric.net (currently not up) and the DBA,
(doing
> business as) Drive Electric here in Utah. I am looking to put
together a
> team to build and sell EV's. If Tesla Motors, Universal Electric
Vehicle
> Inc., Mullen Motor Company and Phoenix Motorcars can do it, so can I.
>
> I have a BS in computer science and associate degree in automotive
service,
> both degrees from Weber State. I currently am working as a senior
software
> engineer, but I have also designed, drafted and built my own 2
story, 3,700
> sq. ft. home.
>
> We are looking for a COO to join our team and be a part of the start-up
> process. If you know anyone who would be interested, please have
them send
> me their resume.
>
> Curtis Muhlestein
> President & CEO
> Drive Electric
>
I glad you gave us "moiré" information and made your intentions clear.
Now you'll have more input that you care to read. What market are
you aiming for, and what kind of investment funds do you have access
to? The Tesla and X-1 cover the expensive sports car end, and the
Xebra the cheap underpowered Chinese junk section. What do you want to
sell?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Oct 2006 at 18:37, Electro Automotive wrote:
> What? An S10 will get the same range as a Metro? I don't think so!
Maybe I've missed something in this discussion, but as long as the speed is
fairly low, so that the brick - er - truck's horrendous aerodynamics don't
matter, it seems to me that what counts is the proportion of battery weight.
The range for a Metro with 30% of its mass in lead would be little more
than that for, say, an S-10 with 30% of its mass in lead.
Of course there are other considerations, but all other things being equal
...
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Oct 2006 at 17:05, Phil Marino wrote:
> a larger car will require more batteries ...a larger motor, controller, and
> DC-DC
> converter, as well as using more electricity
I wonder if this could be one reason Detroit is leery of EVs. Their cost to
manufacture a large vehicle is certainly higher than their cost to build a
tiny one, but the difference is far from proportional, and the behemoths
command a huge premium in the marketplace. Thus large vehicles are far more
profitable for the automakers. Could it be that the manufacturing cost of
an EV scales more directly to its size - and thus to its selling price?
They've become dependent on those big margins, so maybe they're afraid of
losing them. Of course, I'm no insider and I could certainly be (probably
am) mistaken, but they don't seem to have any other business model waiting
in the wings.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Trefry wrote:
Thanks!
Anything else I should know? Any particular suggestions on motors to go with
this, considering the regen?
I think you already know, but just in case - AC drives offer
more than just a regen and you can consider them unless
$1,500 is your hard limit and least money spent is a top priority.
BTW, I REALLY appreciate this list and everyone on it. I've learned a ton in
just the last few days.
All of you are really very helpful!
Mike
You will say that when you'll build your first EV :-)
Good luck,
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence,
Zapi sells the H2 and H3 (Italy)
Zapi also lists the Zivan on their site,
so I do not know if you can get the Zapi where you get the Zivan.
Greg?
The EV Album says:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/zapi
"Zapi controllers are available from most EV parts suppliers. Follow this
link for a current list."
but this only gets you (again) at ZapiInc.com
http://www.zapiinc.com/
However for contact info, there is a US address and phone nr:
Address: 210 James Jackson Avenue
Cary, NC 27513
Phone: (919) 789-4588
Fax: (919) 789-4583
Success,
(Let us know what you find)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 8:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
Who is selling the Zapi? What kind of price? I've heard they have problems
handling the regen function & self destruct. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
> Michael,
>
> As Mr Clunn said everything has a price. However, as the proud owner
> of the world's quickest motor controller from D. Berubi's legendary 8.8
> sec dragster I think of Otmar as a hippie flavored Smokey Yunick or Big
> Daddy Don. I still think contactors are faster but wouldn't part with
> my world record 1.8K Zilla for $100K. Not a bad choice for a light
> weight EV is the 120 volt zapi 800 amp with regen for series motors.
> The regen is real cool on my street car and the controller is
> relatively cheap. Not Zilla performance but enough to run 70+ on the
> freeway and still put you back in the seat at the redlight.
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Trefry"
> > So I've decided to go DC to allow the maximum flexibility of tweaking
> and
> > tuning.
>
> > I just visited the Zilla web-site, and it looks like the controllers
> are
> > backordered over 6 months.
> >
> It kind of like the EV1 we got a taste of something so good , but now
> the well seem dry .
>
> >
> > What are the chances of finding a used Zilla, and would I want to?
>
> I'd like to see one on e bay , just to see how much it goes for . As
> they say everything has a price ,
> I'd sell my used 1k 156v used zilla for 4k , ya I wouldn't buy a use
> one for that , maybe 2500 , . My 2 k , $10,000 , ,, maybe ,
> Its like oil , when you can't get it , the price goes to the moon .
> Thing is , hi prices like this would stop allot of people from getting
> into Ev's ,
>
> > Are there any other controllers AS good for the EV hobbyist?
> >
> not that I've seen , maybe if I paint a curtis green it will work
> better, got to do something .
> Steve Clunn
>
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
> security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
> across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
--- End Message ---
