EV Digest 5952
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Battery boxes
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Zilla controls backordered?
by "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Zilla controls backordered?
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Build EV For Someone Else
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Zilla controls backordered?
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Zilla controls backordered?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Zapi controllers, usable regen?
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Zilla controls backordered?
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Zilla controls backordered?
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Zilla controls backordered?
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Zapi controllers, usable regen?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: Battery boxes
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) SVEAA Rally images/videos
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Zilla controls backordered?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) RE: Zilla controls backordered?
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Raging Grannies at the EV Rally
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Multi Meter Recommendation Needed!
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Oh my, back to the battery argument.
Outside of costs, is that even an option, with availability, chargers,
controllers etc... Actually, I don't even know if the battery type matters
to the controller, does it?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery boxes
No, what the experts here say is that a heavier car doesn't have less
range, just less acceleration.
And the size of the glider means little compared to the weight of the
batteries. If you want to propel less weight around the planet, use
NiMH batteries instead of lead.
Jack
Phil Marino wrote:
>
>
>
>> From: Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Battery boxes
>> Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 13:00:00 -0700
>>
>> I would suggest consideration of a car to convert that doesn't require
>> engineered battery boxes might put you ahead on costs. For example, a
>> car that has a big trunk. And might not also need suspension upgrades.
>> These little cars that are always recommended have hidden costs..
>> Jack
>
>
> That may be true, but a larger car will require more batteries for the
> same range and performance as a smaller car. And, that expense will be
> greater for every new pack, not just once.
>
> A larger car may also require a larger motor, controller, and DC-DC
> converter, as well as using more electricity (admittedly a small part of
> the cost of ev ownership) per mile. And, that additional electric grid
> power will probably result in more greenhouse gasses and other pollutants.
>
> If the purpose of converting a car to electric power is to reduce the
> ill effects of driving on the world ( and, I understand that there are
> other reason, also) then a smaller car would help serve that purpose.
>
> Phil
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, October 2, 2006 3:36 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> As Mr Clunn said everything has a price.
I'd like to hear from Otmar what he thinks this price is. I'd be glad to
pay a 50% premium on my current order to get it "soon-ish" versus "maybe
never".
I know this has been gone over before, and I don't want to put excess
pressure on Otmar, but it seems like demand is far outstripping supply,
and that calls for higher prices, right? Do others agree?
There are lots of small-batch manufacturing houses that will do complete
end-to-end fabrication and assembly for devices like this. Sanmina-SCI
(http://sanmina-sci.com) comes to mind as a big one, but there are dozens
of such companies that will build and assemble in Asia, and ship back to
the U.S for you. With the average "retail" price of a Zilla at say,
$2.5k, it doesn't take much to get $1M of orders...
Steve
However, as the proud owner
> of the world's quickest motor controller from D. Berubi's legendary 8.8 sec
> dragster I think of Otmar as a hippie flavored Smokey Yunick or Big Daddy
> Don. I still think contactors are faster but wouldn't part with
> my world record 1.8K Zilla for $100K. Not a bad choice for a light weight
> EV is the 120 volt zapi 800 amp with regen for series motors.
> The regen is real cool on my street car and the controller is
> relatively cheap. Not Zilla performance but enough to run 70+ on the
> freeway and still put you back in the seat at the redlight.
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Trefry"Â
>
>> So I've decided to go DC to allow the maximum flexibility of tweaking
>>
> andÂ
>> tuning.Â
> Â
>
>> I just visited the Zilla web-site, and it looks like the controllers
>>
> areÂ
>> backordered over 6 months. Â
>>
> It kind of like the EV1 we got a taste of something so good , but now
> the well seem dry . Â
>
>> Â
>> What are the chances of finding a used Zilla, and would I want to?Â
>>
> Â
> I'd like to see one on e bay , just to see how much it goes for . As
> they say everything has a price , I'd sell my used 1k 156v used zilla for
> 4k , ya I wouldn't buy a use
> one for that , maybe 2500 , . My 2 k , $10,000 , ,, maybe , Its like oil
> , when you can't get it , the price goes to the moon .
> Thing is , hi prices like this would stop allot of people from getting
> into Ev's , Â
>
>> Are there any other controllers AS good for the EV hobbyist?Â
>> Â
>>
> not that I've seen , maybe if I paint a curtis green it will work better,
> got to do something . Steve ClunnÂ
> Â
>
>> Â
>>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
> security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across
> the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But wait,
I thought DC motors couldn't do regen without an external generator?
Steve Lacy was explaining the Zilla's valet mode to me, does the Zapi support
anything like that?
I'd really like to regulate the current drawn during regular driving (to extend
range), but be able to flip a switch to allow full power when I want to have
some fun.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
Michael,
As Mr Clunn said everything has a price. However, as the proud owner
of the world's quickest motor controller from D. Berubi's legendary 8.8
sec dragster I think of Otmar as a hippie flavored Smokey Yunick or Big
Daddy Don. I still think contactors are faster but wouldn't part with
my world record 1.8K Zilla for $100K. Not a bad choice for a light
weight EV is the 120 volt zapi 800 amp with regen for series motors.
The regen is real cool on my street car and the controller is
relatively cheap. Not Zilla performance but enough to run 70+ on the
freeway and still put you back in the seat at the redlight.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Trefry"
> So I've decided to go DC to allow the maximum flexibility of tweaking
and
> tuning.
> I just visited the Zilla web-site, and it looks like the controllers
are
> backordered over 6 months.
>
It kind of like the EV1 we got a taste of something so good , but now
the well seem dry .
>
> What are the chances of finding a used Zilla, and would I want to?
I'd like to see one on e bay , just to see how much it goes for . As
they say everything has a price ,
I'd sell my used 1k 156v used zilla for 4k , ya I wouldn't buy a use
one for that , maybe 2500 , . My 2 k , $10,000 , ,, maybe ,
Its like oil , when you can't get it , the price goes to the moon .
Thing is , hi prices like this would stop allot of people from getting
into Ev's ,
> Are there any other controllers AS good for the EV hobbyist?
>
not that I've seen , maybe if I paint a curtis green it will work
better, got to do something .
Steve Clunn
>
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe the following will give you moiré information to what I am trying to
do. I have already contacted the EV'ers here in Northern Utah.
For more than 26 years I have wanted to build an EV. I have been going to
GreenCarCogress.com and other web sites everyday for the past 18 months. It
is very clear to me that with the current advancements in technology that it
is time to build.
I own the domain, DriveElectric.net (currently not up) and the DBA, (doing
business as) Drive Electric here in Utah. I am looking to put together a
team to build and sell EVs. If Tesla Motors, Universal Electric Vehicle
Inc., Mullen Motor Company and Phoenix Motorcars can do it, so can I.
I have a BS in computer science and associate degree in automotive service,
both degrees from Weber State. I currently am working as a senior software
engineer, but I have also designed, drafted and built my own 2 story, 3,700
sq. ft. home.
We are looking for a COO to join our team and be a part of the start-up
process. If you know anyone who would be interested, please have them send
me their resume.
Curtis Muhlestein
President & CEO
Drive Electric
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Build EV For Someone Else
> Money is not the issue at this point in time. I am just trying to get
> different ideas from different people. Price will came later.
>
No, money is the *primary* issue - if you have enough, you *can* get a
>95%-efficient motor and controller, you *can* buy cutting-edge
lithium batteries and BMS, you *can* afford all the other unobtainium
that other listees can only dream about for a ground-up creation, like
access to a wind tunnel, or exotic body materials. That's what many
hundreds of thousands of dollars can buy.
Bottom line: are you a hobbiest who wants to get as much as possible
out of as little money as possible, a converter who wants to do this
as a business, or someone with deep pockets who wants to know what he
can do with all that cash (or somewhere in between)?
There are, of course, those that don't even exist on that continuum,
who are just seeing how much output the list can generate, but have no
desire to do anything with the information supplied. The EVDL gets
them from time to time, as well as argumentative trolls (anyone
remember Troy?) who don't even like EVs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
By the way,
I'm not sure what the rules are here about solicitation, so I wont
explicitly solicit anyone, but I am a professional web site designer
developer, specializing in Community sites such as forums and blogs. I have
done many, many sites including several for Microsoft.
I am willing to trade web-site work for free parts, discounts, or
preferential placement on waiting lists :)
http://customcommunity.org
Just thought I'd throw that out there :)
Michael Trefry
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Lacy
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
On Mon, October 2, 2006 3:36 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> As Mr Clunn said everything has a price.
I'd like to hear from Otmar what he thinks this price is. I'd be glad to
pay a 50% premium on my current order to get it "soon-ish" versus "maybe
never".
I know this has been gone over before, and I don't want to put excess
pressure on Otmar, but it seems like demand is far outstripping supply,
and that calls for higher prices, right? Do others agree?
There are lots of small-batch manufacturing houses that will do complete
end-to-end fabrication and assembly for devices like this. Sanmina-SCI
(http://sanmina-sci.com) comes to mind as a big one, but there are dozens
of such companies that will build and assemble in Asia, and ship back to
the U.S for you. With the average "retail" price of a Zilla at say,
$2.5k, it doesn't take much to get $1M of orders...
Steve
However, as the proud owner
> of the world's quickest motor controller from D. Berubi's legendary 8.8
sec
> dragster I think of Otmar as a hippie flavored Smokey Yunick or Big Daddy
> Don. I still think contactors are faster but wouldn't part with
> my world record 1.8K Zilla for $100K. Not a bad choice for a light weight
> EV is the 120 volt zapi 800 amp with regen for series motors.
> The regen is real cool on my street car and the controller is
> relatively cheap. Not Zilla performance but enough to run 70+ on the
> freeway and still put you back in the seat at the redlight.
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Trefry"Â
>
>> So I've decided to go DC to allow the maximum flexibility of tweaking
>>
> andÂ
>> tuning.Â
> Â
>
>> I just visited the Zilla web-site, and it looks like the controllers
>>
> areÂ
>> backordered over 6 months. Â
>>
> It kind of like the EV1 we got a taste of something so good , but now
> the well seem dry . Â
>
>> Â
>> What are the chances of finding a used Zilla, and would I want to?Â
>>
> Â
> I'd like to see one on e bay , just to see how much it goes for . As
> they say everything has a price , I'd sell my used 1k 156v used zilla
for
> 4k , ya I wouldn't buy a use
> one for that , maybe 2500 , . My 2 k , $10,000 , ,, maybe , Its like oil
> , when you can't get it , the price goes to the moon .
> Thing is , hi prices like this would stop allot of people from getting
> into Ev's , Â
>
>> Are there any other controllers AS good for the EV hobbyist?Â
>> Â
>>
> not that I've seen , maybe if I paint a curtis green it will work better,
> got to do something . Steve ClunnÂ
> Â
>
>> Â
>>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
> security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across
> the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Zapi has at least 2 cutback speeds for "valet" and definitely has
regen. If you fit a potentiometer to your brake pedal you can program
variable regen level based on pedal position. At full tilt it sure
puts the brakes on AND makes the battery meter shine full.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 7:06 PM
Subject: RE: Zilla controls backordered?
But wait,
I thought DC motors couldn't do regen without an external generator?
Steve Lacy was explaining the Zilla's valet mode to me, does the Zapi
support
anything like that?
I'd really like to regulate the current drawn during regular driving
(to extend
range), but be able to flip a switch to allow full power when I want to
have
some fun.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf
Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 6:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
Michael,
As Mr Clunn said everything has a price. However, as the proud owner
of the world's quickest motor controller from D. Berubi's legendary 8.8
sec dragster I think of Otmar as a hippie flavored Smokey Yunick or Big
Daddy Don. I still think contactors are faster but wouldn't part with
my world record 1.8K Zilla for $100K. Not a bad choice for a light
weight EV is the 120 volt zapi 800 amp with regen for series motors.
The regen is real cool on my street car and the controller is
relatively cheap. Not Zilla performance but enough to run 70+ on the
freeway and still put you back in the seat at the redlight.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Trefry"
So I've decided to go DC to allow the maximum flexibility of tweaking
and
tuning.
I just visited the Zilla web-site, and it looks like the controllers
are
backordered over 6 months.
It kind of like the EV1 we got a taste of something so good , but now
the well seem dry .
What are the chances of finding a used Zilla, and would I want to?
I'd like to see one on e bay , just to see how much it goes for . As
they say everything has a price ,
I'd sell my used 1k 156v used zilla for 4k , ya I wouldn't buy a use
one for that , maybe 2500 , . My 2 k , $10,000 , ,, maybe ,
Its like oil , when you can't get it , the price goes to the moon .
Thing is , hi prices like this would stop allot of people from getting
into Ev's ,
Are there any other controllers AS good for the EV hobbyist?
not that I've seen , maybe if I paint a curtis green it will work
better, got to do something .
Steve Clunn
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, October 2, 2006 5:36 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> ...
> my world record 1.8K Zilla for $100K. Not a bad choice for a light
> weight EV is the 120 volt zapi 800 amp with regen for series motors.
> The regen is real cool on my street car and the controller is
> relatively cheap. Not Zilla performance but enough to run 70+ on the
> freeway and still put you back in the seat at the redlight.
The understanding that I've had about these controllers is that regen
generally doesn't work -- the controllers blow up when you try to use it,
and so most folks don't bother (or learn the hard way). How many folks
out there are successfully getting regen out of a Zapi into a 120V pack?
With what motors?
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 18:07:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Multi Meter Recommendation Needed!
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I don't see where Mark's response said, "Buy a "TRUE
RMS" meter," (such as the Fluke he suggested). I
think it has to do with ripples in the sample you are
measuring, but it's what an EVer needs. Take it from
a non E.E. lister.
peace,
--- Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> MARK DUTKO wrote:
>
> > Can anyone recommend a good meter for EV building.
> I don't mind
> > spending a little more for useful features and
> would like some
> > guidance on brands and where to buy. Perhaps a
> simple good quality
> > meter is all that is needed? What about measuring
> pulse output, etc?
> >
> There are lots of cheap meters and they are all
> about the same. Your
> local Radio Shack will have plenty of them and they
> are generally good
> enough for most users. Just make sure you are
> getting AC/DC volts, and
> resistance. A continuity test with audible alert is
> also nice. Most of
> the features are unnecessary or rarely useful.
> (Transitor/Diode
> testers, frequency counters that only count square
> waves, value hold,
> etc). Avoid the $20 and under Harbor Frieght or
> Home Depot meters, they
> tend to have accuracy issues.
>
> If you are willing to spend a bit more, find a
> Fluke. Nearly any of
> their meters will have the features you need.
> Excellent durability, and
> high accuracy are part of the package. I have an
> older Model 79 that
> has never failed me yet, and most of the 80 series
> are also excellent.
> Price will be $100-$200US, but I think its worth it.
> You can find older
> units on EBay for reasonable prices.
>
> Mark Farver
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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--- End Message ---
