EV Digest 5963
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(PHEV Prius CSU debute)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Vacuum Reservoir
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: ADC 8" inch rotation direction
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Zapi controllers, usable regen?
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Power Designers May Soon Think Zinc
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) AW: series wound motor
by "Hofer Tobias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Vacuum Reservoir
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) AW: series wound motor
by "Hofer Tobias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EVLN(Ceramic EV power source)
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Wandering Ranger
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: ADC 8" inch rotation direction
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Big/unexpected voltage drop
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Weight and range (Was: Re: Battery boxes)
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Our litigious society
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "Andrew Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) New motor winding for eff info needed? Freedom EV update
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Why electric car companies should be focused on this one ideal EV
market: Hawaii
by "martin emde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(PHEV Prius CSU debute)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.tmcnet.com/altpowermag/articles/2764-debut-plug-hybrid-electric-vehicle.htm
Alternative Power September 21, 2006
DEBUT: Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle
By Stefania Viscusi, TMCnet Assistant Editor
If you thought cars that plugged in for power were only part of a
collection amongst young boys toy boxes, you may want to think
again.
Plug-in electrical cars are entering the market with promising
benefits for both the environment and our pockets.
In the most recent bid to reduce our dependency on foreign fuel
while also helping the environment, a new hybrid vehicle has been
debuted.
With these cars, fewer emissions, fuel savings and a cut in fuel
consumption by 50 percent can all be recognized since the cars
run on both the gas engine and an electrical motor.
The PHEV Prius debuted this past Monday at the "Clean Energy
Partnerships" event held at Colorado State University Engine and
Energy Conversions Laboratory.
For the project, Colorado Governor's Office of Energy Management
and Consumption (OMEC) and other partners including Hybrids-Plus
Inc., A123Systems, U.S. Department of Energy's National Renewable
Energy Laboratory (NREL) and Xcel Energy all joined forces.
As a model for the concept, a 2006 Toyota Prius was converted by
Hybrids-Plus into a PHEV, which included an advanced lithium ion
battery from A123Systems. NERL and Xcel will conduct analysis of
the project and its benefits and impact.
PHEV's, which is an acronym for Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles,
are a step beyond Hybrid Electrical Vehicles as they offer
improved amounts of energy consumption with the inclusion of a
larger battery.
According to a news release, the Pirus is also set to include
Vehicle to Grid (V2G) for the ability to provide and receive
power from the electrical grid.
Commenting on the benefits and future adoption of this
initiative, Carl Lawrence of Hybrid-Plus said in a statement to
the press, "We retain the original storage space and spare tire
location so that the conversion is next to invisible to the user,
except of course in the extended mileage."
"Although today's conversion cost is high, that cost, as well as
installation time, is expected to drop in the next few years by
30 to 50 percent, making this technology widely available to
businesses and individual consumers alike."
Stefania Viscusi
[
http://www.tmcnet.com/tmcnet/columnists/columnist.aspx?id=100056&nm=Stefania%20Viscusi
]
is an established writer and avid reader
===
http://www2.townonline.com/acton/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=579234
[...]
The word around the industry is some people are trying to
convince Toyota to make hybrids this way, but Sghia-Hughes says
as far as he knows, it's just hearsay. However, the success of
the Prius may prove to auto manufacturers that [PIHs] are
something worth investing in.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
I priced it out.
I was going to spend $50 on sch 80 PVC and fittings, so instead I'm just
gonna buy the premade tank from
www.jegs.com
or www.summitracing.com
Comp Cams 5200 vacuum reservoir.
The steel tank is cheaper but heavier.
so I'll spend $56
Good luck, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are three bolt holes for the 8" end bell. Currently the middle
bolt hole is being used. I would think this is neutral timing, the
other two are advanced and retarded (for a given direction).
Is this the case?
Jack
steve clunn wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Murray"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:46 AM
Subject: ADC 8" inch rotation direction
Does an 8" ADC motor have advanced timing to rotate in a specific
direction?
Is it easy to change it if it does?
First you have to decide how much your going to advance . What I did to
a 9 was , first take clips that hold the brushes out , take out the
bolts that hold the end cap , pull end cap off . I then took a piece of
steel and drilled a 5/16 hole and 3/4 of an inch away (what I though was
the right timing ) drilled another 2 sizes smaller ( drill size for
tape) hole . I then bolted the piece to the motor , using the old 5/16
holes and lined the 2nd hole to the middle of the motors case ( don't
want you drill coming through the side of the motor) . This got all the
new holes right in the right place . you could also just turn the motor
end cap and set it where you like and drill but my first way seems better.
Steve Clunn
I don't want to mount this motor in the wrong way and find out it
needs to go on the other side..
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone needs to sell an inexpensive inductive charge setup,
like the go cars and buses have to eliminate the problem and make
charging easy.
Jack
Edward Ang wrote:
Seriously guys, there is no way to prevent 100% unless you lock the
wheel when you are plugged in. In my case, one time, my wife forgot
to unplug our conversion and just released the hand brake. The car
rolled down the driveway and damage the inlet before she realized
that.
At some point, the driver has got to take the responsibility. For
example, you do not turn off the car, don't pull the hand brake, don't
turn the steering sharply etc. while you are on the freeway. While
filling up at the gas station (ICE), you don't pump until the nozzle
is in the tank inlet. You don't drive if the OIL light is on on the
dash etc.
On 10/3/06, Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I concur.
Don't assume the cord is live.
Don't assume the charger is turned on.
Use a switch on the door (or connector) to indicate 'a cord is attached'
rather than 'the charger is on.'
Also make sure that if someone opens the cover or the switch fails,
the car
does not become disabled.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
> Edward Ang wrote:
>
> >
> > On 10/2/06, Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> So how do people usually wire up a PFC-30 so that you can't drive
away
> >> while it's charging?
> >>
> Just don't... put a plunger or reed switch on the fuel door or whatever
> covers over the power inlet. Using the charger or AC voltage does not
> protect you if the cord is plugged in but no power is applied. (Blown
> breaker or GFCI, other end of the cord pulled from outlet, etc)
>
> Mark Farver
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 400A 1221B-7401 in my EV provides marginal performance. I'm
following this thread with great interest.
Here's a link to a photo of the Zapi in Shawn's Electropolitan. The
picture was taken in June of 2005 at the Power of DC event...
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/resource.asp?
func=display&resid=1228&tree=603&thumb=1&id=404
Here's the TinyURL... http://tinyurl.com/ox7hf
-Dave
On Oct 2, 2006, at 7:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chris
I have been running H2's and H3's for several years. I can tell you
that at least in my case, the Zapi takes all I can dish out. I can
stop the Electropolitan from full speed (65-70) mph to a crawl as
quick as I want using regen alone. The AGM's seem to love it.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: Zapi controllers, usable regen?
On Mon, October 2, 2006 5:36 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
...
my world record 1.8K Zilla for $100K. Not a bad choice for a light
weight EV is the 120 volt zapi 800 amp with regen for series motors.
The regen is real cool on my street car and the controller is
relatively cheap. Not Zilla performance but enough to run 70+ on the
freeway and still put you back in the seat at the redlight.
The understanding that I've had about these controllers is that regen
generally doesn't work -- the controllers blow up when you try to use
it,
and so most folks don't bother (or learn the hard way). How many folks
out there are successfully getting regen out of a Zapi into a 120V
pack?
With what motors?
--chris
_______________________________________________________________________
_
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Zinc Matrix Power has recently been awarded the
âTechnology Innovation Acceleratedâ (TIA) Award at
the Intel Developers Forum (IDF) for its Silver-Zinc
rechargeable battery technology. The technology, which
has not yet been branded, is a battery chemistry based
on zinc, silver and water, and was developed to
improve battery safety and performance in portable
applications (see figure below).
Based on zinc, silver and water, the Silver-Zinc
battery from Zinc Matrix Power significantly improves
on the energy density of Li-ion batteries.
This technology is fundamentally different from
Li-ion, and comparisons between the two battery
chemistries underscore the implications of an
alternative power source for portable electronics,
especially laptop computers. Given the recent recalls
of Li-ion laptop batteries manufactured by Sony, which
began with Dell and Apple and now include IBM and
Toshiba, the most important point of comparison
between Li-ion and Silver-Zinc is battery safety.
According to Ross Dueber, CEO of Zinc Matrix Power,
the failure mechanism of the silver-zinc chemistry is
relatively benign. While it is possible for the growth
of the zinc electrode to cause internal shorting, it
would not result in a fire or explosion. This is
because the electrolyte for the reaction is water, and
a safety vent of the type used in many other battery
technologies would prevent the buildup of dangerous
pressure in the event of self heating. In contrast,
the reactants of a Li-ion cell are flammable and
possibly explosive under the heating or venting
conditions caused by an internal short.
Dueber said silver-zinc batteries are currently rated
to operate up to 50°C and even 60°C. They may be
capable of operation at even higher temperatures
without the inherent risks that would be present in
Li-ion batteries.
In addition to improved safety, Silver-Zinc batteries
also provide improved performance. Dueber stated the
volumetric energy density of silver-zinc batteries
from Zinc Matrix Power represents as much as a 50%
increase over comparable Li-ion cells, and the power
density of the two technologies is essentially the
same.
Dueber stated that Li-ion cells have a typical
endurance of about 300 to 500 charge cycles, and at
present, silver-zinc batteries are also rated for
several hundred charge cycles. This will be increased
as the technology matures. Furthermore, the increased
energy density of silver-zinc further contributes to
the cellâs endurance by extending the time between
battery recharges. As with other battery technologies,
endurance can also be increased by electrical
techniques that protect the battery from excessive
current spikes during operation.
The basic charging method for silver-zinc is based on
carefully managed constant-current techniques. This is
different from the multi-stage charge techniques of
Li-ion batteries, and is one of the major reasons why
silver-zinc technology is unsuitable for the Li-ion
aftermarket in the wake of laptop battery recalls.
Dueber also stated that Silver-Zinc batteries provide
flexibility in the design of the cells and can be
configured to accommodate various load spikes for a
variety of applications. While the initial focus is on
portable applications such as laptops and cell phones,
other potential markets could include power tools and
hybrid-electric vehicles. As load demands increase and
air-breathing power sources such as fuel cells emerge
as options for the power designer, Zinc Matrix Power
could even explore the possibility of adapting
Silver-Zinc technology to develop its own version of
the rechargeable zinc-air battery.
For the present, Zinc Matrix Power plans to partner
with Tyco Electronics to manufacture its Silver-Zinc
battery. Multiple laptop OEMs are planning to test
samples, which will be available in Q1 of 2007. This
battery is poised to significantly increase the
runtime of portable devices, as well as the range of
energy-storage options available to designers for
powering them.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some words to my project.
It is not a car it is an electro go-cart with high acceleration performance.
So i need
This capacitor only to accelerate and to regen during braking. It is not a
electro
Car for long ranges.
I will build in 1 or two batteries to overcome the losses in the system.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im
Auftrag von Peter Gabrielsson
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2006 21:35
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: series wound motor
zapi controllers has regen.
Are you using Ultracaps and batteries, if so how are you adressing the
coupling between them? And if not what's you expected range?
On 10/3/06, Hofer Tobias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Ralph
>
> I bough the ultracap-cell directly from maxwell switzerland. It is a
> Boost-cap cell 145F/42V 600A with active cell balancing.
>
> I red some article on the internet (i.e dean thompson, etmar
> embenhoech) they describe the possiblity To regen with a serie wound
> motor with a book-boost topology.
>
> Regards tobias
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im
> Auftrag von Ralph
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Oktober 2006 20:22
> An: [email protected]
> Betreff: Re: series wound motor
>
>
> So are you saying that you can get ultracaps for your project? If so,
> what is your source?
>
> You will need an alternator to develop regenerative energy- so far as
> I've heard, this is not possible with conventional series-wound DC
> motors.
>
> -Ralph
>
>
> On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 20:42:37 +0100
> "Hofer Tobias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hello everybody
> >
> > I'm new on your list and i have already a question.
> > I'm working on a electric car with a series wound motor and maxwell
> > ultracapacitor as the primary energy storage element. To have a max.
> > advantage with the ultracapacitor i need to regenerate
> energy
> > during
> > deceleration.
> > I red som article on the internet. but at the moment it is not clear
> > for
> me
> > how this will
> > work with a series wound motor.
> >
> > if somebody has more experience or ideas pleas let me know.
> >
> > best regards
> >
> > hofer tobias
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:33 PM 10/3/2006, you wrote:
Arrg,
How do folks create vacuum reservoirs that actually hold a vacuum?
I tried self tapping the PVC end cap with a brass fitting which did
not work, then I got a rubber stopper from home depot and fashioned
a grommet that another brass fitting is squeezed through. That is
holding a vacuum for about 1 minute then the pump switches back on.
It is all rather frustrating.
John
Use a proper tapered thread pipe tap and some thread sealant. I
usually only run the tap in 3/4 the length of the threads on the
tap. We've done hundreds of them this way out of ABS.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>If you want to charge a capacitor bank instead, you'd need to follow the
>boost converter with a buck converter, to step the fixed voltage down to
>whatever was needed at the moment to charge the capacitors.
You are right, it is difficult to charge the capacitor with the appropriate
voltage.
One solution could be a sepic converter instead of the boost. But this is
going to
Be difficult.
So i decided to leave out the series-wound motor. Now i will use an
integrated servomotor
48V approx. 10kW peak power. Integrated means there is the whole power stage
(3phase bridge) and
Controller (power-pc) inside the motor. This is a product we are developing
in our company.
With this servomotor i overcome all the problems. Maybe i have less torque
at zero rpm. So it is
Not that funny accelerating motor and not that cheap.
Regards tobias
> Randall Prentice
>
>> -----Original Message-----
Hofer Tobias asked:
>> I'm working on a electric car with a series wound motor and >> Maxwell
ultracapacitor as the primary energy storage element. >> I need to
regenerate energy during deceleration... it is not >> clear how this will
work with a series wound motor.
A series motor makes this an especially difficult problem. By nature, a
series generator's voltage varies a lot with rpm and load. The
capacitor's voltage varies a lot depending on state of charge. Whatever
sort of converter you use between the two will therefore have to deal
with a wide range of input voltages, *and* a wide range of output
voltages. That's a difficult beast!
Randall Prentice wrote:
> There are ways to do this with series wound.
> The most common is to separately excite the field winding (SEPEX) by
> applying low voltage to it, then you can buck boost off the motor.
It's better not to do it this way. Most series motors have simple field
structures, with no interpoles or compensating windings. This means the
optimal brush timing changes dramatically with current. So, you get
excessive brush arcing if you run it as separately excited, with (say)
low field current but high armature current.
The more common method to get regen with a series motor is to keep the
field and armature wired in series -- this insures that the series field
is always as strong as the armature's field, to minimize arcing. The
motor will generate a voltage that varies considerably with rpm.
A boost converter is used to deal with this variation. Its input is the
highly variable voltage from the series generator. It steps this up to a
(relatively) constant output voltage, to charge the batteries.
If you want to charge a capacitor bank instead, you'd need to follow the
boost converter with a buck converter, to step the fixed voltage down to
whatever was needed at the moment to charge the capacitors.
> Note: The more current you draw the more voltage you get up to serious
> current.
Actually, a series generator has the opposite characteristics; max
current at *minimum* voltage.
> Faviorite kill controller trick is to roll backwards until controller
> diodes conduct in reverse then current increases until you blow the
> diodes up (1/2 sec event).
This brings up another problem with the series generator -- it is
unstable. Like a bicycle, it requires active balancing to get a stable
output. Thus, some form of controller is required. It must constantly
sense the desired output voltage, and adjust the series generator's
current to regulate this voltage.
The "controller killer" event described above happens when a series
generator is allowed to operate *without* any control system. It runs
wild, trying to deliver "infinite" current. Just as a series motor tries
to draw "infinite" current at zero rpm; a series generator tries to
GENERATE "infinite" current at zero rpm. This uncontrolled current surge
murders the controller.
> From what I have seen regen is nice but not the panacea that it
> appears to be; you only get about 50% back from braking (80% motor
> * 80% silicon [both ways] * 80% battery)...
That's about right. Each part loses 10-20% or so of your energy. The
energy has to pass through so many parts between driving and charging
that you're doing well to get 50% of it back.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
this sounds too good to be true....
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: EVLN(Ceramic EV power source)
EVLN(Ceramic EV power source)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/15/technology/disruptors_eestor.biz2/index.htm
Gentlemen, stop your engines
EEStor's new automotive power source could eliminate the need for
the combustion engine - and for oil.
By Erick Schonfeld and Jeanette Borzo, Business 2.0
September 20 2006: 2:16 PM EDT
SAN FRANCISCO (Business 2.0 Magazine) -- The Disruptor: EEStor
The Innovation: A ceramic power source for electric cars that
could blow away the combustion engine
CNN and Business 2.0 look at ways to improve technology in terms
of engine and fuel efficiency. (September 20)
Play video
http://www.cnn.com/video/business/2006/09/20/pkg.the.next.disruptors.traffic.wjw/content.html#
The Disrupted: Oil companies and carmakers that don't climb
aboard
[...]
EEStor's device is not technically a battery because no chemicals
are involved. In fact, it contains no hazardous materials
whatsoever. Yet it acts like a battery in that it stores
electricity. If it works as it's supposed to, it will charge up
in five minutes and provide enough energy to drive 500 miles on
about $9 worth of electricity. At today's gas prices, covering
that distance can cost $60 or more; the EEStor device would power
a car for the equivalent of about 45 cents a gallon.
And we mean power a car. "A four-passenger sedan will drive like
a Ferrari," Clifford predicts. In contrast, his first electric
car, the Zenn, which debuted in August and is powered by a more
conventional battery, can't go much faster than a moped and takes
hours to charge.
The cost of the engine itself depends on how much energy it can
store; an EEStor-powered engine with a range roughly equivalent
to that of a gasoline-powered car would cost about $5,200. That's
a slight premium over the cost of the gas engine and the other
parts the device would replace -- the gas tank, exhaust system,
and drivetrain. But getting rid of the need to buy gas should
more than make up for the extra cost of an EEStor-powered car.
EEStor is tight-lipped about its device and how it manages to
pack such a punch. According to a patent issued in April, the
device is made of a ceramic powder coated with aluminum oxide and
glass. A bank of these ceramic batteries could be used at
"electrical energy stations" where people on the road could
charge up.
EEStor is backed by VC firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, and
the company's founders are engineers Richard Weir and Carl
Nelson. CEO Weir, a former IBM-er, won't comment, but his son,
Tom, an EEStor VP, acknowledges, "That is pretty much why we are
here today, to compete with the internal combustion engine." He
also hints that his engine technology is not just for the small
passenger vehicles that Clifford is aiming at, but could easily
replace the 300-horsepower brutes in today's SUVs. That would
make it appealing to automakers like GM (Charts) and Ford
(Charts), who are seeing sales of their gas-guzzling SUVs and
pickup trucks begin to tank because of exorbitant fuel prices.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
feel your wheel hubs after driving it for a while and you will find the one
that is overheating...caliper...
Rich Va
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: Wandering Ranger
> Sounds more like a dragging brake to me - still needs to be fixed before
you
> drive it anymore!
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:01 PM
> Subject: RE: Wandering Ranger
>
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > Recently, I have found my range dropping, and noticed the
> > > truck pulling to the right on the freeway - not so dramatic
> > > at lower speeds, but still moves that way if you let go. I
> > > suppose this is something more than toe-in; anyone have
> > > links to how to fix this without paying for someone more
> > > mechanically minded to do it? It's a 2000 Ford Ranger EV
> > > - these use a 4x4 frame, but since it doesn't
> > > have FWD, it probably uses a 2WD's steering assembly.
> >
> > First thing to check is your tire pressures; you may have a low tire.
> >
> > If that isn't it, have you struck a curb, etc. recently? The front end
> > may be out of alignment. It is probably worth taking the truck in to a
> > shop to have the alignment checked/set if you suspect it to be out. A
> > front-end alignment shouldn't be an expensive proposition.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/462 - Release Date:
10/3/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- Begin Message ---
I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target
price for the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM
drive according to my conversations with them is about $28K with
controller, and the batteries must be at least $15K, all purchased in
one unit quantities. So, $44k just in batteries and drive and it will
be sold for $1k more as a complete vehicle. If this can be delivered
in a quality package in a year it will say much to how fast things
are moving. The UQM drives are made to order in Colorado and I think
the SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I may just have to forget
my conversion and buy something new in a year or two, but I really
don't want an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jack
You got it!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Eletric
Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There are three bolt holes for the 8" end bell. Currently the middle
bolt hole is being used. I would think this is neutral timing, the
other two are advanced and retarded (for a given direction).
Is this the case?
Jack
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
From: "Chris & Patrick"
This trip was 11.4 miles, 27.8 amphours and 2836 watthours long
That seems like a lot of energy for such a small car. When my
Ghia was at that voltage, it never used more than one Ah per mile.
I would check for a low tire, dragging brakes, etc. Check how well
the car coasts, listen for noises that may give a clue, and also look
for anything that's getting hot. If your energy consumption has
always been at this level, the sudden sagging could be from cooler
temperatures dropping your battery capacity?
hth,
John
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jerry,
For those who say you
can't use the back seat in a Ghia for other than groceries,
I recently
took John Wayland, Jim Husted, and Tim Brehm for a ride, all
at the same time.
John, I'm going to have to turn you in for EV and
Ghia abuse!!! ;^0 That poor car!!!
And some would have said "the poor fellows in the back seat!"
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
If you check the archives, I proposed a solution for this a few weeks back.
Create a co-operative of which the buyer must be a member first. Involve them
in some of the aspects of the vehicle's creation. End result: they cannot sue
themselves. However the co-operative situation (which otherwise works like a
corporation) would not allow you (or anyone else in it) to be irresponsible
either. IOW its a workable and proven solution.
-Ralph
On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 20:16:30 -0500
"Steve Kobb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This evening, I saw a TV commercial that got my attention.
>
> The ad presented the services of a local law firm, and the announcement went
> something like this:
>
> "Have you been hurt by a product defect? Have you or your family experienced
> pain and suffering because of the negligence of a callous and irresponsible
> manufacturer?
>
> Well, if you have, give us a call and tell us about it. If we think you have
> a case, we'll sue the peewaddie out of those heartless bastards!"
>
> Now, in the past, I wouldn't even have paid attention to such a pitch.
> Lately, however, I've had EVs on the brain, and I've even been mulling over
> the idea of selling converted vehicles to other people... maybe even for a
> profit.
>
> Seeing the law firm's commercial put me in a different state of mind, however.
>
> Suddenly, I had visions of a disgruntled customer who only got 40 miles out
> of a charge instead of an anticipated 50. Or worse, a wreck-survivor who
> blamed the accident on that "poorly-installed controller" in his EV.
>
> You get the idea.
>
> So here's what I wondered: Has anyone developed a sales contract that
> basically says --
> 1. This is experimental technology.
> 2. If you buy my converted EV, you acknowledge that the vehicle may still
> have kinks, even though every effort has been made to create a flawless
> installation.
>
> Does that boilerplate exist anywhere?
>
> My father used to say that "anyone with $25 in his pocket can file a
> lawsuit", so I know that no contract can offer complete protection against a
> product liability charge.
>
> Nevertheless -- I'm still hoping that the right kind of written agreement
> would make a litigious client think twice before he speed-dials his lawyer.
>
> Your comments are welcome.
>
> Steve Kobb
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--- Begin Message ---
OK, I have been reading this thread too long without commit. There is
several ways to solve this problem depending on your setup and/or money
available.
Method 1: (my method) Use an Avcon inlet with the built-in sensor to
tell the Zilla not to engage. The Zilla's a have a sensor port for this
function. Problem solved if you can't start the vehicle. The Avcon
inlet only cost $175 and I can use it to charge almost anywhere in
Sacramento.
Method 2: Use a Reed Relay in the charge port door that is NC when the
charge door is shut and wire that inline with the main contactor.
My 2 Cents
John Grigg
Jack Wrote:
Someone needs to sell an inexpensive inductive charge setup,
like the go cars and buses have to eliminate the problem and make
charging easy.
Jack
Edward Ang wrote:
> Seriously guys, there is no way to prevent 100% unless you lock the
> wheel when you are plugged in. In my case, one time, my wife forgot
> to unplug our conversion and just released the hand brake. The car
> rolled down the driveway and damage the inlet before she realized
> that.
>
> At some point, the driver has got to take the responsibility. For
> example, you do not turn off the car, don't pull the hand brake, don't
> turn the steering sharply etc. while you are on the freeway. While
> filling up at the gas station (ICE), you don't pump until the nozzle
> is in the tank inlet. You don't drive if the OIL light is on on the
> dash etc.
>
> On 10/3/06, Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I concur.
>>
>> Don't assume the cord is live.
>> Don't assume the charger is turned on.
>>
>> Use a switch on the door (or connector) to indicate 'a cord is
attached'
>> rather than 'the charger is on.'
>>
>> Also make sure that if someone opens the cover or the switch fails,
>> the car
>> does not become disabled.
>>
>> Joe Smalley
>> Rural Kitsap County WA
>> Fiesta 48 volts
>> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
>>
>>
>> > Edward Ang wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > On 10/2/06, Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> So how do people usually wire up a PFC-30 so that you can't
drive
>> away
>> > >> while it's charging?
>> > >>
>> > Just don't... put a plunger or reed switch on the fuel door or
whatever
>> > covers over the power inlet. Using the charger or AC voltage does
not
>> > protect you if the cord is plugged in but no power is applied.
(Blown
>> > breaker or GFCI, other end of the cord pulled from outlet, etc)
>> >
>> > Mark Farver
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Mark, just remember that the production costs of the systems you're
referring to will be much less than those prototype costs. With a sale
price of $45k, I would assume that they can build the whole thing for around
$27k including assembly, tooling, and labor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target
price for the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM
drive according to my conversations with them is about $28K with
controller, and the batteries must be at least $15K, all purchased in
one unit quantities. So, $44k just in batteries and drive and it will
be sold for $1k more as a complete vehicle. If this can be delivered
in a quality package in a year it will say much to how fast things
are moving. The UQM drives are made to order in Colorado and I think
the SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I may just have to forget
my conversion and buy something new in a year or two, but I really
don't want an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark, Phoenix has been around for a while and a few years back was
planning on using motor/controllers from Enova. You might want to ask if
they have delivered any vehicles yet before counting on a vehicle two years
out. The UQM motors are very interesting as they have big torque and a wide
power band. I know that in quantities of 10 or so, the price of the UQM
might drop to about half. Still pretty pricey compared to some of the
motors available today.
What batteries and how many are they planning on using?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target price for
the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM drive according to my
conversations with them is about $28K with controller, and the batteries
must be at least $15K, all purchased in one unit quantities. So, $44k just
in batteries and drive and it will be sold for $1k more as a complete
vehicle. If this can be delivered in a quality package in a year it will say
much to how fast things are moving. The UQM drives are made to order in
Colorado and I think the SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I may just
have to forget my conversion and buy something new in a year or two, but I
really don't want an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
As the finish date on the Freedom EV prototype
comes closer, I have to order the motor for it.
I can order any windings I want so what should
I go for for eff, power?
Should I go for more torque per amp and low rpm
so the reduction gear is smaller, lighter cheaper? Or should
I go higher rpm, more gearing?
The motor will be a D+D 6.7", probably the L
size length at 85lbs. The battery pack is 72vdc and
controller is an Alltrax 7245.
Just finished gluing the bottom to the body,
tabbed in and cut out the wheelwells. After grinding it
flush, I'll roll it back over upright and cut out the
windshield, doors so it will soon start looking like it
should!!
Then it's just a matter of bolting everything
in, wiring it up. Right? ;^D
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
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--- Begin Message ---
My point exactly- UQM makes the motors now- ordered to quantity...
On Oct 4, 2006, at 11:25 AM, Andrew Roberts wrote:
Mark, just remember that the production costs of the systems you're
referring to will be much less than those prototype costs. With a
sale
price of $45k, I would assume that they can build the whole thing
for around
$27k including assembly, tooling, and labor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target
price for the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM
drive according to my conversations with them is about $28K with
controller, and the batteries must be at least $15K, all purchased in
one unit quantities. So, $44k just in batteries and drive and it will
be sold for $1k more as a complete vehicle. If this can be delivered
in a quality package in a year it will say much to how fast things
are moving. The UQM drives are made to order in Colorado and I think
the SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I may just have to forget
my conversion and buy something new in a year or two, but I really
don't want an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sebastian,
Your observations regarding Hawaii and its potential as an EV test ground
is spot on. There is no reason why Hawaii should not be a leader in EV
technology for the reasons you mentioned. In fact we should be innovators
in all areas of alternate and renewable energy development. We have such an
abundance of energy in the form of solar, wind, geothermal, wave, biomass
(sugar cane), etc. that we have no excuse not to be more self sufficient in
this regard. If anything, we in Hawaii should be exporting energy.
I teach math and science at a high school in Maui. I, along with another
teacher, offer an engineering elective where our goal is to expose students
to the field of engineering. We started out building Electrathon cars and
competing in a statewide competition. The local utility sponsored the event
over the past 10 years and just recently dropped the program. As a result
we've revamped the course and this year we will be doing an EV conversion.
In addition to covering engineering concepts we hope to educate our students
on the issues surrounding peak oil, global warming, sustainability, etc. We
also plan on building a solar garage that will charge the vehicle during the
day. Our ultimate goal is to demonstrate that EV's are a practical and
viable solution to our local transportation needs. When complete we hope to
get the car out in the community to raise awareness.
A large portion of the cars driving our roads are operated by tourists. It
would seem that by having such a large rental fleet, we could introduce the
EV to our rental fleet and require that the hotels add charging stations to
their parking structures. As you mentioned, a 50 to 60 mile range would be
more than adequate to satisfy most tourist transportation needs. Something
to this effect was attempted a few years back. A company in Lahaina (West
Maui) rented a fleet of GEM's. It was more a novelty as the tourists who
rented these already had a normal rental car. As such the GEM's are
currently deteriorating in the sun and salt spray at a junk yard.
Your point on Hawaii citizens being environmentally conscience is generally
true, however if you look at the resistance the developers experienced in
constructing the recently completed wind farm (Maui's first) it's clear that
not everyone sees the bigger picture. Many people (both locals and
tourists) complained of the unsightliness of the structures. Many of these
same people don't realize that our power plants have at most a 30 day supply
of oil to keep the electricity flowing. It won't take long after the boats
stop coming in that Hawaii is screwed (we have no more than 1 weeks worth of
food and other essential supplies).
So the bottom line is I agree with you completely. Hawaii could and should
be completely self sufficient when it comes to energy (power generation and
transportation). In terms of the EV, I think that if one existed at a price
comparable to an ICE car (not a Tesla) with a reasonable range (for Island
commuting) we could get something going here. Does this car exist in the US
market? The idea of then charging the EV using sun or wind power is even
more appealing. Maybe I should quit my teaching job and start importing
EV's :) .
Martin Emde
On 10/3/06, Lock Hughes < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
Original URL here:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/10/02/why-electric-car-companies-should-be-focused-on-this-one-ideal-e/
or tiny here:
http://tinyurl.com/ndd8m
Posted Oct 2nd 2006 1:57PM by Sebastian Blanco
I'm currently in sunny Hawaiʻi doing research on a book. Having
come from Michigan, where gas prices had dropped down to $2.20 a gallon
or so before I left, the $3 a gallon signs up at all the local stations
here reminded me that transportation fuel is a big cost here in
"paradise". Walking around the other day, I had the most obvious
brainstorm: Hawaiʻi is the ideal testing ground for electric
vehicles. Seriously. Electric car companies should be falling over each
other to release EVs here, and the major automakers shouldn't be far
behind. You can read why after the jump.
Range: one of the biggest complaints people have about EVs is that you
can't go very far without recharging (gasoline cars need to be
"recharged", too, but for some reason we've all agreed to build gas
stations at every other intersection to accomplish this feat). In
Hawaiʻi, though, except on the Big Island, range isn't really an
issue. How far can you drive on Oahu before you start coming back? To
go all the way around the island is farther than the 40-50 mile range
of most EVs for sale today, but not a lot of people here drive from
Honolulu to Turtle Bay and back every day. Those that do can stick with
their gas burners, for most everyone else, EVs are ideal.
Target audience: Hawaiʻi citizens are often at the forefront of
ecological issues. And why shouldn't they be? The environment here is
beautiful and nature is so much a part of one's daily life. From the
ocean to the fresh air, the rocks to the deep valleys, people here are
passionate about the ʻaina (loosely: the land) and the
environment.
High energy costs: as I said, gas prices here are high. This is because
almost every little bit needs to be transported here. Because gasoline
costs an arm and a leg here, the cost difference to drive a standard
gasoline car here versus on the mainland makes the EV's cost premium in
Hawaiʻi so much less of an issue, especially when you take solar
energy into consideration.
Solar: the sun shines so much here, it's a crime there aren't solar
panels atop every roof. Tesla Motors will offer a solar package with
their Roadsters to make driving that speed demon net energy positive.
Any electric car company that comes to Hawaiʻi should do the same
thing, because it's cool and because it's sensible. There are enough
people with money here who would gladly buy an EV and a set of solar
panels just so they never have to buy gas again. Trust me.
So, that's my reasoning. There are some groups here who are thinking
the same thing. If I have time, I'll check up on them while I'm here
and see how long it'll be before there's nothing but EVs here.
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