EV Digest 5972
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Painting a motor?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Better than a Xebra
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: AC and DC together?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN Warp 8s)
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: AC and DC together?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Electric Cars in Crotaia
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Brake lights on regen
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Electric motor dyno
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) How is Tommy Chong's low-rider coming along, and TV show?
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Chip Gribben in the News
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery boxes
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) OT: Hybrid electric/air?
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: useful links on EV costs, surplus equipment
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN Warp
8s)
by Ron Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Chip Gribben in the News
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Creating EVs on spec
by "Steve Kobb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Fw: HI there... Greetings from Croatia - Europe ... Help needed...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: HI there... Greetings from Croatia - Europe ... Help needed...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Solectria AC55 Motor
by Ron Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Zilla BackOrder
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: motor winding for eff, drive ? Freedom EV update
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Chip Gribben in the News
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: LED brakelights
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Mechanical brush timing (Was: Re: series wound motor)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
My color trademark for all my vehicles motor compartments is black satin
epoxy, black gloss epoxy, stainless steel epoxy paint and stainless steel
brackets and fittings.
Is very industrial looking, it what the GE Jet engines colors are.
The paint I use is RUST.OLEUM Appliance Epoxy Ultra-Hard Enamel.
You do not need a primer for this paint. The stainless may go on powdery,
which is ok, because I give a stainless brush look after it dries for 24
hours. Best to put two coats on in with 20 minutes of each coat or bare
metal or you have to wait 2 weeks for a second coat.
To make it a brush look, use the very fine white scotch pads that are used
for body work. Wipe in only one direction and lift. Do not rub back and
forth.
This also may be a very good paint for battery boxes, which I did in gloss
white epoxy enamel.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 2:57 PM
Subject: Painting a motor?
> I have on my hands a recently purchased GE 7" motor. It's dirty and
> nasty, and has a thick layer of gray paint on the outside (and even some
> on the inside). After paint removal, sanding, cleaning, etc, I was
> going to paint it (the exterior) with the same paint that's used for
> ICE motor blocks.
>
> Any reason that this cannot be done, or are there suggestions for better
> / different coatings to use?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Keystone Flyer does look like a better deal than the Xebra.
The wheel base looks longer too. Perhaps in the future, there
will be more China EVs made available that will be better yet
(: Fingers crossed :).
Rod,
if one of these Keystone Flyers were given a performance make
over, would it be allowed to race them on a drag strip?
Or would they locked out from being allowed on the drag strip
like the golf/nEVs are?
At EVS-20 I drove the AC Propulsion hybrid. It had a slide
selector to chose from multiple regen power settings (weak to very
aggressive). See http://brucedp.ueuo.com/03evs20/IMG_0286.jpg
(look below the shifter).
If a Zilla Z1 were installed in the China EV Rod mentioned and
made so it had multiple power settings on the dash, it could be
driven in either: low-Eco-weenie mode (getting the most range),
or normal mode, or full-power-Scotty! mode (good for climbing
SF hills).
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
OK one more time, it SAYS:
"the following company provides products"
It does NOT say, "The following company sells OUR products"
All it says, is that if you want to build an EV, you can buy EV components
from KTA (as well as many other places), it does NOT say that you can buy
UQM products from KTA.
Got it?
If you are still in doubt, write/call them or KTA.
>
> 6. I am converting my car into an electric or hybrid electric
> vehicle.
> Can I buy one of your motors for my project?
>
> No. We only sell motors and electronics to original equipment
> manufacturers or their suppliers. However, the following company provides
> products to EV enthusiasts:
> KTA Services Inc.
> Electric Vehicle Components and Systems since 1984
> http://www.kta-ev.com
>
> Top
>
>> It says that KTA supplies products to EV enthusiasts. KTA supplies
>> products, but not UQM products.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Behalf Of torich1
>> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:01 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>>
>>
>> This umq web site say they sell thru KTA!
>>
>> http://www.uqm.com/about/FAQ.html#8
>>
>> > UQM does not sell through KTA.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Behalf Of torich1
>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:19 PM
>> > To: [email protected]
>> > Subject: Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>> >
>> >
>> > They say you can buy their product at http://www.kta-ev.com BUT! KTA
>> makes
>> > no mention of this product in their catalog....
>> > Rich Va
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Andrew Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: <[email protected]>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:08 PM
>> > Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>> >
>> >
>> > > yeah, just buy 100 of them. LOL.
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:33 PM
>> > > To: [email protected]
>> > > Subject: Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > does anyone know a way to source one at a reasonable price? Seems
>> > > like a great solution.
>> > > On Oct 4, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Andrew Roberts wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > The batteries are from www.altairnano.com, and you forgot one
>> major
>> > > > thing
>> > > > about the UQM motors: they weigh half as much as the Enova (or
>> > > > solectria or
>> > > > siemens) systems at the same power level. They're also physically
>> > > > smaller.
>> > > > I know that was one of the driving factors in Phoenix's decision
>> to
>> > > > switch.
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > > > Behalf Of Don Cameron
>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:22 PM
>> > > > To: [email protected]
>> > > > Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Hi Mark, Phoenix has been around for a while and a few years back
> was
>> > > > planning on using motor/controllers from Enova. You might want to
>> > > > ask if
>> > > > they have delivered any vehicles yet before counting on a vehicle
>> > > > two years
>> > > > out. The UQM motors are very interesting as they have big torque
>> > > > and a wide
>> > > > power band. I know that in quantities of 10 or so, the price of
>> > > > the UQM
>> > > > might drop to about half. Still pretty pricey compared to some of
> the
>> > > > motors available today.
>> > > >
>> > > > What batteries and how many are they planning on using?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>> > > >
>> > > > see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
>> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> > > > Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
>> > > > Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
>> > > > To: [email protected]
>> > > > Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>> > > >
>> > > > I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target
>> > > > price for
>> > > > the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM drive
>> > > > according to my
>> > > > conversations with them is about $28K with controller, and the
>> > > > batteries
>> > > > must be at least $15K, all purchased in one unit quantities. So,
>> > > > $44k just
>> > > > in batteries and drive and it will be sold for $1k more as a
> complete
>> > > > vehicle. If this can be delivered in a quality package in a year
>> it
>> > > > will say
>> > > > much to how fast things are moving. The UQM drives are made to
>> > > > order in
>> > > > Colorado and I think the SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I
>> > > > may just
>> > > > have to forget my conversion and buy something new in a year or
>> > > > two, but I
>> > > > really don't want an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
>> > > >
>> > > > Mark
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > > Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/462 - Release Date:
>> 10/3/2006
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.13/463 - Release Date:
> 10/4/2006
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.13/463 - Release Date:
>> 10/4/2006
>>
>>
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--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Jack Murray wrote:
>> But why not just use a big AC motor instead??
>> Such as the Azure AC55, a 13.5" 177 ft-lbs
>
> Certainly; that's the obvious way to do it. It just costs more. I think
> theoldcars was looking for a way to save some money.
Do you really think it would cost more to buy one big AC motor, than a
smaller AC motor, plus a DC motor, plus some way to couple them together,
plus figuring out how to make them work together, plus etc?
Seems to me that the Larger AC motor might be cheaper in the long run, and
certainly easier...and probably more efficient.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 5, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Andrew Roberts wrote:
Is that torque figure through a gearbox or off the motor shaft? I
have a
very hard time believing that a 9" motor can provide that kind of shaft
torque. I'd also be worried about the keyed shaft. I'd love to be
disproven though as it would be amazing to see.
Its not a 9", its a pair of 8" motors that are now one motor (one
shaft, two armatures.) The output has splines to fit the front yoke of
the drive shaft. Yes, he is talking about 770 ft/lb. of *motor* torque
going into a 4.11 rear end (I think, used to be a 4.56.)
You won't find this on the manufacturer curves, but how much torque
does one 8 inch ADC make at 2000 amps? Multiply that by 2 (launch with
the motors in series.) Its A LOT of torque, wheel standing torque! A
ride in that car is *fun* - I need another one :-)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don, if you are serious, I'd be happy to build you a fast car.
I was considering building a C5 corvette with the AC55 motor, it would
go into the trans tunnel and drives the differential, bats would be in
the engine compartment.
I'm don't see what two motors really does for you, the speed limitation
is the batteries ability to delivery enough power to the motor(s).
A big motor or two won't go any faster if the batteries can't run them.
Lead acid AGM's (Optima Yellow Tops) can pump the most juice of
available batteries, but they are heavy. The alternative is to ratchet
up the voltage instead using smaller current NiMH or Lithium batteries.
This is how the Tesla goes fast with a single relatively small motor.
I've been working with a smaller PM AC motor (BLDC) similiar to the UGM
but smaller that is going in the jetski. One could stack them to get
some big power, but I would think the AC55 is a better choice than 4-8
of the smaller motors.
Best Regards,
Jack
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello
I had a 97 Solectria Force for a while. I am not sure but is this the same
motor it had? It was a 156 volt system I don't know what bumping that up to
312 would do but I am looking for a lot more performance than one single motor.
I plan not to have a transmission and that weight would be the second motor.
I live in an area with a lot of hills. An example of one is 3 Ah up and I
could recover 1 Ah in one half of a mile in the Solectria. The S-10 NiMH and
Ranger trucks I drive do not have enough regeneration to stop the vehicle. In
fact it they gain speed and I have to use the brakes.
I also want to this EV to drive more like a sports car. Valance batteries
would be an option and I already have NiMH batteries but that would be about
1100 pounds of batteries. For most my local driving I don't go over 20 miles so
a small size Hawker could be another option. If I can buy the A123 battery
that would be about what I need.
I don't see a downside to having the two motors and if I don't like the
results I can just spilt them up and use them on some other projects. From the
post on the list it sounds like my biggest road block would be buying a Zilla
Z1K or Z2K.
I would consider the A55 motor if I could link two together. I noticed they
do weigh a lot. I not looking to just blow a mountain of money but I am
willing to spend what it takes to build this.
Don
In a message dated 10/5/2006 1:14:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I didn't think saving money was a priority:
The DC motor and controller would be 10,000 the Siemens system cost
15,000 total cost 25,000
ElectroAuto prices a complete AC55 conversion kit at $10,000
Just the motor is $1,400.
I've considered building a controller for the AC55 motor, and probably
will, but I'll put it on the top of my todo list for $10K. :)
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
Jack Murray wrote:
But why not just use a big AC motor instead??
Such as the Azure AC55, a 13.5" 177 ft-lbs
Certainly; that's the obvious way to do it. It just costs more. I think
theoldcars was looking for a way to save some money.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BOY - if that Ain't a POST built for Rodric Wilde..
Go for it Rod !!!!!!
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike wrote -
> My truck can stop incredibly fast with regen set to 100%.
So does the issue of mechanical stress upon the drive components come into play
at any point during regen, especially if it is set to 100%?
It seems that from just a straight braking point of view regen might be a worth
while mechanical advantage over drum and/or disk brakes. No wear and tear on
the brake system, or at least much less, and it adds trip and battery life.
I think I am getting to like this regen thing...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First I've seen of it:
http://mustangdyne.com/electric_motor_test_stands.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
I was just listening to a call in show on our local community radio station
KGNU 88.5 FM, whilst trying to catch up on EVDL posts, interviewing Tommy
Chong about his new book. At the end of the interview he mentioned that he
just came from the shop that is working on his eelectric low-rider, which
I'm assuming was Reverend Gadgets place. He also mentioned a TV show about
it. So, what's up with that?
BB
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
W. Laurel driver pushes electric transportation, by Steve Earley -
Gazette.Net
For West Laurel resident Chip Gribben, every trip in his royal blue
1985 Ford Escort is a declaration of independence. As the multiple
signs, stickers and emblems on the vehicle advertise, his Escort is
powered by electricity, and thus not subject to the whims of the world
oil market. ββTo me, freedom is driving electric,β said Gribben, an
asthmatic who also likes that the car is virtually pollution-free...
(continued)
Here's the story link...
http://www.gazette.net/stories/100506/laurnew180753_31940.shtml
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 5, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Jack Murray wrote:
Would it be fair to say where and how to put all the batteries in the
car is the major effort?
Well, it's one of the first steps. How difficult it is depends on the
car and battery pack.
Information like this can be found in Mike and Shari's book, "Convert
It!", available wherever EV parts are sold. Also found in local
libraries and Amazon.com. It's a short read and highly recommended.
I will say that the book is over ten years old and could use an update.
No Zillas or PFC chargers or AC drives or even sealed batteries. It's
still a great book.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just thought some here might be interested in this tech. Dunno if it
might have any use in EVs:
http://www.engineair.com.au/
tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 5, 2006, at 10:01 AM, Rush wrote:
I find it odd that you included the cost of tools, as if the tools
were an integral part of the EV such as the batteries, wire, charger,
etc.
It doesn't seem odd to me. I bought a bunch of tools just for my
conversion. I'm not a car junkie and I didn't have a garage full of
tools when I started. If I wasn't converting an EV I would not have
purchased the tools, so I can legitimately claim my tools as an EV
expense.
Consider it a start-up cost.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has NetGain ever published max torque for their motors? Anyone else
have an opinion about max torque for the 9 and 11?
I've been trying to decide if a single 9" would satisfy my requirements
for acceleration. I don't need a 12 second 1/4 mile, but I thought I'd
need two 9's to get 0-60mph in ~6.5 seconds. yes/no/opinons?
This page - http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-hp-et-mph.htm describes the
mathematical relationships between performance, weight, hp and torque.
There's a link to a spreadsheet at the bottom of the page with data on
more than 150 cars from road & track.
http://www.stealth316.com/misc/performance_lrt.xls
A 2001 Corvette weighs 3100 lbs, has 385 hp/385 ftlbs torque at 6000
rpm, 0-60mph is 4.6 seconds and 1/4 mile is 13 seconds at 110 mph.
A 2001 BMW M3 is 2425 lbs, has 444 hp/354 ftlbs torque at 7500 rpm,
0-60mph is 3.3 seconds and 1/4 mile is 11.3 at 125 mph.
If two 8's have 772 ftlbs, then would a single 9 would have at least 385
ftlbs?
Isn't 300 volts * 1100 amps = 442 hp at 6000 rpm = 387 ftlbs torque?
Can a single 9" motor produce this much torque?
Thanks,
Ron Archer
Jim Husted wrote:
Wayland called me back a little while ago and confirmed the 772 ft. lbs. as
coming from the motor shaft also. A big reason he got Keith at Dutchmans
involved with that shaft!
<snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know why the batteries have only a "life span of about four
months"? I thought that you could get 10,000 to 15,000 miles on a set of
batteries.
Curtis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Stensland
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Chip Gribben in the News
W. Laurel driver pushes electric transportation, by Steve Earley -
Gazette.Net
For West Laurel resident Chip Gribben, every trip in his royal blue
1985 Ford Escort is a declaration of independence. As the multiple
signs, stickers and emblems on the vehicle advertise, his Escort is
powered by electricity, and thus not subject to the whims of the world
oil market. ''To me, freedom is driving electric," said Gribben, an
asthmatic who also likes that the car is virtually pollution-free...
(continued)
Here's the story link...
http://www.gazette.net/stories/100506/laurnew180753_31940.shtml
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Five years ago, my wife and I bought our house from a firm that builds homes
"on spec". In other words, this company starts the construction process without
knowing for sure when the new house will be sold.
Sometimes, this builder sells a home before it's even finished... and
sometimes, the customer doesn't come along until much later.
While thinking about this, I started to wonder about the conversion shops that
are discussed on this list.
Do any of them create EVs "on spec"? In other words, do they create the EVs
first, and then put them up for sale?
...Or do these shops mostly perform commissioned work -- as in: Customer brings
in a car and -- for a fee -- the shop converts it?
Steve Kobb
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Andrej Skvorc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: HI there... Greetings from Croatia - Europe ... Help needed...
> Andrej
> In europe you could get very light car. Do you need two or four seats? A
> 72v system will get 40 miles and when we say 40 miles range the useful
range
> is 20 miles without hurting the batteries. Sometimes you can go 30 miles
> but if you go 40 miles all the time you are lucky to go one year on the
> batteries. Your range will be greater with a small vehicle. Do you have
> old Fiat 600 or some car of this size? Are there 3 wheel vehicles you can
> convert. Remember lighter is better. A small delivery truck that weights
> under 1000kg is good. The lighter the better but not rusty. That is bad &
> it weakens the car. Let us know the specifications of the vehicles you
will
> pick from. If you can find an aluminium vehicle that helps with
corrosion.
> The Altos might be good.but to make it useful It will be around 3000
pounds.
> If you can find something lighter it's better but the Altos should be
> dooable. If you want to use 72v system you might have trouble with such a
> heavy car & hill climbing. On level ground you can get by. You might be
> able to use a contactor bypass for a "turbo" gear. I'm sure you will get
> other better advice than mine. Good Luck.. Lawrence Rhodes.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Skvorc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 1:55 PM
> Subject: HI there... Greetings from Croatia - Europe ... Help needed...
>
>
> > I'm new around EV and conversion. I reading around the web for last 2-3
> > weeks now...
> >
> > i'm new to all this and i hope i wont "kill" you with all the question
> > cose i'm want to do very good research before starting to build EV
> >
> > I have couple of question if you could help me....
> >
> > I'm thinking to get 0-60 MPH (0-100 KMH) in 15 sec, and range atleast 40
> > miles (64 km)... but i would be happy to get also 30 miles...
> > my daily drive to work and back home is around 12-15 km thats around 7-9
> > miles but i would be happy to take car to the city and shoping when i
> > need to...
> >
> > here i have to test car in motor veichle center so i can register it and
> > drive it... so i can't exceed gross vehicle weight rating of
> > manufacturer cose i would fail the test
> >
> > i was thinking of using some electric engine on 72 V and 6 batteries
> > just to pass the inspection and add another 6 batteries later.. or mybe
> > just add 2 more batteries for 96 V system...
> > what would you recomend for engine... would 72 V - 96 V system be good
> > enough for my needs ?
> > which controler to use... what do you recomend?
> >
> > i have available here regular car batteries
> > i have optima blue and red top batteries -
http://www.optimabatteries.com/
> > Optima 1050-S, Optima 1050-U, Optima YT-U 4,2, Optima D900-M
> > then some Ca/Ca batteries i dont know what this are
> > Ca/Lead from http://www.monbat.com/
> > and http://www.winnerbattery.net/
> >
> > and there are this ones... i dont know what to make of them
> >
> > http://www.greensavercorp.com/compare.htm (picture) - they are using
> > them in croatia for e-bike and for e-moped... (small motorcycle)...
> >
> > if this ones are better then care batteries i was thiking in using
> > http://www.greensavercorp.com/SP3312.htm ... (picture)
> >
> > as this last ones are 33 amphours... what range would i get with them?
> >
> > I'm thinking about converting one off this three cars, all are FWD ...
> > which one would be better? i think i could get some 100 kg (220 lbs) of
> > each of them...
> > and i was thinking on leaving liquid cooling... to cool batteries in
> > summer and heat them for start in winter... here temparatures go from -5
> > to -10 (some time even -15) celsius in winter to + 35 celsius in
> > summer.. then again some winters we see only -2 or -3 celsius
> >
> > 1. Hyundai Atos - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Atos
> > Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (kg) 1,336 (2945 lbs if i'm
> > correct) and curb weight (kg) 884 (1948 lbs?)
> >
> > 2. Hyundai Getz (also know as Click or TB) -
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Getz
> > Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (kg) 1,440 (3174 lbs if i'm
> > correct) and curb weight (kg) 1100 (2425 lbs?)
> >
> > 3. Hyundai Accent from 1998 (also know as Verna) -
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Accent
> > Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (kg) 1,435 (3163 lbs if i'm
> > correct) and curb weight (kg) 995 (2193 lbs?)
> >
> > as you can see i'm hyundai fan :-D i have Hyundai Elantra
> >
> > i was laways looking for cleaner car... and this way i would have
> > atleast one :-D and oil prices have me thinking of building one also
> >
> > here 1 L of unleaded is aroun 7.5 Kn ... thats 4 L for 30 Kn ... thats 1
> > galon at 5.3 USD!!! ... so you still have a lot cheaper fuel as i
see....
> >
> > Thnx for any advice pointers anything
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ONe thing to consider is using two motors & controllers at 72v. This will
give you much more power but if you use it it will lessen your range.
Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 2:36 PM
Subject: RE: HI there... Greetings from Croatia - Europe ... Help needed...
> Andrej Skvorc wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking to get 0-60 MPH (0-100 KMH) in 15 sec, and range
> > atleast 40 miles (64 km)... but i would be happy to get also 30
> miles...
> > my daily drive to work and back home is around 12-15 km thats
> > around 7-9 miles
>
> These seem like quite realistic goals.
>
> > i was thinking of using some electric engine on 72 V and 6 batteries
> > just to pass the inspection and add another 6 batteries
> > later.. or mybe just add 2 more batteries for 96 V system...
> > what would you recomend for engine... would 72 V - 96 V system
> > be good enough for my needs ?
>
> I don't think that 72V or even 96V will give you the acceleration you
> desire, and certainly a 72 or 96V string of Optimas will not get you the
> sort of range you are looking for, except perhaps if you are travelling
> at very low speed.
>
> > which controler to use... what do you recomend?
>
> A Z1K is the obvious choice, however, with the present demand
> outsripping supply, lead times are long and given your modest
> performance objectives I would suggest that a Curtis 1231C might be
> quite a reasonable alternative.
>
> > i have optima blue and red top batteries -
>
> The red tops (RT) are starting batteries only and will not last in a
> deep cycle application like this. The blue tops (BT) come in two
> flavours, one of which is also a starting battery; stay away from this
> one also! Only consider the Optima models that come in a light grey
> case; the light grey case indicates a deep cycle model, the dark grey
> case indicates a starting battery model.
>
> The Optimas could be a good choice for your application since you will
> be calling upon the batteries to deliver relatively high currents if you
> go with a lower pack voltage, and the Optimas are proven to stand up
> well in such service.
>
> > I'm thinking about converting one off this three cars, all are FWD ...
> > which one would be better? i think i could get some 100 kg
> > (220 lbs) of each of them...
>
> > 1. Hyundai Atos - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Atos
>
> > 2. Hyundai Getz (also know as Click or TB) -
>
> > 3. Hyundai Accent from 1998 (also know as Verna) -
>
> Of these, the Atos has the highest payload capacity (994lbs), then the
> Accent (968lbs), then the Getz at a significantly lower 748lbs.
>
> The 220lbs you expect to remove will be roughly consumed by the weight
> of the motor, controller, cabling, and battery boxes you add, so the
> payload has to accommodate both your battery weight and whatever payload
> you expect to carry. Less 200lbs for the driver, the Atos allows for up
> to 794lbs of batteries, which could allow 17 Optimas for a 204V system.
> A Curtis only allows for up to a 144V pack and a Z1K-LV for up to 156V.
>
> If you want to carry a passenger, you have about 600lbs available for
> the pack, which cuts you down to about 13 Optimas, for a 156V pack. 12
> Optimas drops you to 144V and allows the use of a Curtis. This setup
> would allow you to make your commute to or from work, but you would have
> to recharge at work unless you don't mind cycling the pack deeply and
> wearing it out more quickly.
>
> If your speed requirements are more lax than the range requirement, then
> you might benefit from using a lower voltage pack of flooded batteries,
> but you'd be hard-pressed to get above 72V in a 600lb flooded pack (9 x
> 8V @ 65lbs each), and the main advantage of going to flooded is that you
> would be able to get more cycle from them when discharging them deeply.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't see any reply to your question. I don't have any experience,
but the distributor for Azure Dynamics is ElectroAuto
http://www.electroauto.com/
Ron
MARK DUTKO wrote:
Does anyone have experience with this motor? Know anyone who has used one?
Mark
http://www.azuredynamics.com/pdf/AC55%20-%20June%202005.pdf
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been hearing about the zilla back order from everyone except
Otmar so I shot him a quick email to see how lifes treating him. Since a
few people at work who drive golf carts between buildings all day have
taken notice of My EV and are asking about where to get parts.
Otmar Hasn't been able to keep up with the list but said he is currently
on Feburary's orders and doing soldering himself, but is really hopefull
about the new hire. I wonder if a "meet and solder" weekend to help hi
catch up would be a great EV weekend. Kind of take a break from racing
to pay homage to one of the driving forces :-).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: motor winding for eff, drive ? Freedom EV
update
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 14:16:47 -0700 (PDT)
>Hey Jerry
>
> I was reluctant to post to this as I am not an EE but
>instead just some schmuck who got a job rebuilding motors
>as a youngster and was never smart enough to get out of it
>8^ P To top that off I've rarely actually seen any of my
>motors out in the field. What I have seen a lot of are the
>different types of damages to a lot of different motor
>types (all forklift motors mind you).
I've alway went to those who repair things as they
see what really happens.
>
> Some motor types always burn the armatures up, some the
>coils, with undersized or poorly built motors frying both.
>The most common is a burnt armature, which is also the most
>expensive to rebuild or replace. Let's take sep-ex motor
>as an example. I hear people just raving about them here
>but I've found that the load is put almost all on the
>armature and the armatures are burnt up on almost everyone
>I get.
As they have less torque, they probably use more amps
to get moving. That's why I've stuck with series that get
9x's their rated toque for starting up hills, burning rubber
;^D , ect.
A hybrid system where one uses 1 series motor and one
shunt has possiblities with good starting power, good
cruise, speed control and regen from the shunt might be a
way of getting both's advantages. It would reqire 2
controllers though.
Regardless of it's low or high end eff, make sure
>you have a motor built that will be balanced between the
>armature and the coils for a happy successful motor.
I'm not sure how to tell if a motor is balanced, D+D
should know as they built all the ADC motors amoung other
ones before they sold ADC. I'll ask for that when I call
them tomarrow.
>
>
>jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I was asking the experts on the list, no everyones
>opinion!!
>And I asked a specific question, are series motors more eff
>wound for low or higher rpm? I'd think that would be easy
>for those who know motors.
>
> Well I'm no expert here as I'm learning to transfer my
>knowlege into the EV world with still much learning needed
>8^ )
>
> Besides the exploded comms you see at my website I've
>seen a couple motors cooked to death by not being allowed
to
>rev up to speed. The FB1 I saw cooked the armature and
>left the coils untouched if that helps.
I tend to over gear my motors to avoid just that.
Then use field weakening to get more power, speed. I
generally match my batt voltage, field weakening to get
about 5k rpms for top speed up til now. I'll probably use a
bypass contactor for any racing runs.
Though my Ewoody's GE 50 lb motor was over geared at
48 vdc on a contactor controller. But I couldn't carry 48vdc
worth of GC batteries in it so had to run it on 36vdc where
the gearing worked out. After putting in new brush holder,
brushes, it's worked many yrs commuting into Tampa at 50 mph
after 30 yrs in a Citi-car.
That's why I figured 2 A89 size motors will easily
run the much more eff Freedom EV. And an L91 size will
too. Especially on 72vdc in Fla.
My neighbor Dan
>took a 7" Yale I have and built a go-kart with it. Being a
>short comm, small brushed, non-fanned motor I figuered that
>it may not be able to handle big current very well. Short
>story is the motor only turns 1900 rpms top speed and
>doesn't even begin to get hot and after at least 10 hours
>(20-30 min. runs) the comm hasn't even developed a film yet
>, still shiny new.
That's probably the size of my Ewoody motor!! Must
be a fast cart!!
>
>Snip>>Now Lee, you talked me into going with one motor
>saying it would work!! Make up your mind ;^D
>Before that I was going 2 motors series/parallel for
>extra starting torque. more cooling area and still leaning
>torwards them but I'll give the L91 size D+D motor a try on
>the prototype to make reverse, ect easier, cheaper.
>
> If you look at a lot of the successful DC cars the twin
>motor setup is hard to argue against. Having dual comms to
>pass the current really helps to keep the motors happy.
>The series / parallel shift is a pretty neat trick also.
>Anyway, I just thought I'd offer what I can. Just don't
>undersize the motor, you and your customers will be much
>happier for it in longevity.
They do have a lot going for them like torque and
cooling power. Plus in series/parallel you get double the
torque with the same controller which saves money too. Their
main problem is the contactors needed to S/P and reverse.
>
>
> Snip>> Would it be worth splitting the fields so they can
>be series/paralleled?
>
> I still don't have a lot of info back from USU's
>snowmobile as they blew it up when the belt broke 8^ o
> They did claim thet running the motor with the fields
>plumbed series gave a better takeoff and hill climbing,
>while the fields plumbed series / parallel was more eff.
>and better for basic driving. Jays getting close to
>finishing his conversion so hopefully we'll have some data
>soon on his Gamera9 motor.
I'll ask D+D about it tomarrow. If splitting the
field will do about what S/P 2 motors will do torque/rpm
wise, I might go that way.
I guess I'll stick with rated power somewhere around
4k rpms like mine before so I can field weaken it for more
top end power.
>
> Glad to hear things are really moving for you and best of
>luck.
Yeah, figure if I tell people that I'll do it, I'll
actually have do it. ;^D I know it's wierd but a normal
person would have never done something like this. But thanks
to a good group of people as I could have never done it by
myself anytime soon, it looks like it will actually happen!!
I'm shooting for Nov 5th if everything works out.
And now the Sunrise is starting to rise again in kit
form, maybe we will have started something, showing others
that building affordable, eff, fast, long range EV's can be
very profitable ;^D
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
> Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Intentional sabotage? Was most likely supposed to be "four years"...
(Oil company slipped Steve Earley some $$$$...?)
On 10/5/06, Curtis Muhlestein wrote:
Does anyone know why the batteries have only a "life span of about four
months"? I thought that you could get 10,000 to 15,000 miles on a set of
batteries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
SuperFlux LEDs are pretty powerful and very high quality components (not
a finished device). Each one has several times more power than a common
T1 3/4 LED can create. They were designed with a wide viewing angle.
Does anyone build a lamp replacment with a superflx LED? It would be a
challenge as they need a heatsink. As a guess, maybe it would look like
a #1157 lamp with an attached reflector. The reflector is polished
aluminum, to also serve as the heatsink.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forgive me if this has been addressed in later posts, but I am no where
near caught up
Everyone is fixated on advancing and I think that is costing me amps.
The way I understand it at launch low amps I have 0 advance, at higher
rpms the advance is needed. at higher amps this is amplified. but at
high amps and low rpm I would have less advance.
I can "feel" that for my weight of vehicle the advance is too high. It
spools up after I hit 1500 rpm or so and feels like amps wasted at
launch (where part of the field is producing torque in the wrong
direction). It also seems to block full current flow until the rpm's
come up.
--- End Message ---
