EV Digest 5971
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) HI there... Greetings from Croatia - Europe ... Help needed...
by Andrej Skvorc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: motor winding for eff, drive ? Freedom EV update
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) WKTEC in Langley, WA. Oct 10-12th
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: multiple chargers
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Our litigious society
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN Warp 8s)
by "Andrew Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: HI there... Greetings from Croatia - Europe ... Help needed...
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN Warp 8s)
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Painting a motor?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Painting a motor?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Painting a motor?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Painting a motor?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Brake lights on regen
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Our litigious society
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Brake lights on regen
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: AC and DC together?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Croatia conversion (Re: HI there... Greetings from Croatia - Europe ...
Help needed...)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I'm new around EV and conversion. I reading around the web for last 2-3
weeks now...
i'm new to all this and i hope i wont "kill" you with all the question
cose i'm want to do very good research before starting to build EV
I have couple of question if you could help me....
I'm thinking to get 0-60 MPH (0-100 KMH) in 15 sec, and range atleast 40
miles (64 km)... but i would be happy to get also 30 miles...
my daily drive to work and back home is around 12-15 km thats around 7-9
miles but i would be happy to take car to the city and shoping when i
need to...
here i have to test car in motor veichle center so i can register it and
drive it... so i can't exceed gross vehicle weight rating of
manufacturer cose i would fail the test
i was thinking of using some electric engine on 72 V and 6 batteries
just to pass the inspection and add another 6 batteries later.. or mybe
just add 2 more batteries for 96 V system...
what would you recomend for engine... would 72 V - 96 V system be good
enough for my needs ?
which controler to use... what do you recomend?
i have available here regular car batteries
i have optima blue and red top batteries - http://www.optimabatteries.com/
Optima 1050-S, Optima 1050-U, Optima YT-U 4,2, Optima D900-M
then some Ca/Ca batteries i dont know what this are
Ca/Lead from http://www.monbat.com/
and http://www.winnerbattery.net/
and there are this ones... i dont know what to make of them
http://www.greensavercorp.com/compare.htm (picture) - they are using
them in croatia for e-bike and for e-moped... (small motorcycle)...
if this ones are better then care batteries i was thiking in using
http://www.greensavercorp.com/SP3312.htm ... (picture)
as this last ones are 33 amphours... what range would i get with them?
I'm thinking about converting one off this three cars, all are FWD ...
which one would be better? i think i could get some 100 kg (220 lbs) of
each of them...
and i was thinking on leaving liquid cooling... to cool batteries in
summer and heat them for start in winter... here temparatures go from -5
to -10 (some time even -15) celsius in winter to + 35 celsius in
summer.. then again some winters we see only -2 or -3 celsius
1. Hyundai Atos - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Atos
Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (kg) 1,336 (2945 lbs if i'm
correct) and curb weight (kg) 884 (1948 lbs?)
2. Hyundai Getz (also know as Click or TB) -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Getz
Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (kg) 1,440 (3174 lbs if i'm
correct) and curb weight (kg) 1100 (2425 lbs?)
3. Hyundai Accent from 1998 (also know as Verna) -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Accent
Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (kg) 1,435 (3163 lbs if i'm
correct) and curb weight (kg) 995 (2193 lbs?)
as you can see i'm hyundai fan :-D i have Hyundai Elantra
i was laways looking for cleaner car... and this way i would have
atleast one :-D and oil prices have me thinking of building one also
here 1 L of unleaded is aroun 7.5 Kn ... thats 4 L for 30 Kn ... thats 1
galon at 5.3 USD!!! ... so you still have a lot cheaper fuel as i see....
Thnx for any advice pointers anything
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jerry
I was reluctant to post to this as I am not an EE but instead just some
schmuck who got a job rebuilding motors as a youngster and was never smart
enough to get out of it 8^ P To top that off I've rarely actually seen any of
my motors out in the field. What I have seen a lot of are the different types
of damages to a lot of different motor types (all forklift motors mind you).
Some motor types always burn the armatures up, some the coils, with
undersized or poorly built motors frying both. The most common is a burnt
armature, which is also the most expensive to rebuild or replace. Let's take
sep-ex motor as an example. I hear people just raving about them here but I've
found that the load is put almost all on the armature and the armatures are
burnt up on almost everyone I get. Regardless of it's low or high end eff,
make sure you have a motor built that will be balanced between the armature and
the coils for a happy successful motor.
jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was asking the experts on the list, no everyones
opinion!!
And I asked a specific question, are series motors more eff
wound for low or higher rpm? I'd think that would be easy
for those who know motors.
Well I'm no expert here as I'm learning to transfer my knowlege into the EV
world with still much learning needed 8^ )
Besides the exploded comms you see at my website I've seen a couple motors
cooked to death by ot being allowed to rev up to speed. The FB1 I saw cooked
the armature and left the coils untouched if that helps. My neighbor Dan took
a 7" Yale I have and built a go-kart with it. Being a short comm, small
brushed, non-fanned motor I figuered that it may not be able to handle big
current very well. Short story is the motor only turns 1900 rpms top speed and
doesn't even begin to get hot and after at least 10 hours (20-30 min. runs) the
comm hasn't even developed a film yet, still shiny new.
Snip>>Now Lee, you talked me into going with one motor
saying it would work!! Make up your mind ;^D
Before that I was going 2 motors series/parallel for
extra starting torque. more cooling area and still leaning
torwards them but I'll give the L91 size D+D motor a try on
the prototype to make reverse, ect easier, cheaper.
If you look at a lot of the successful DC cars the twin motor setup is hard
to argue against. Having dual comms to pass the current really helps to keep
the motors happy. The series / parallel shift is a pretty neat trick also.
Anyway, I just thought I'd offer what I can. Just don't undersize the motor,
you and your customers will be much happier for it in longevity.
Snip>> Would it be worth splitting the fields so they can
be series/paralleled?
I still don't have a lot of info back from USU's snowmobile as they blew it
up when the belt broke 8^ o
They did claim thet running the motor with the fields plumbed series gave a
better takeoff and hill climbing, while the fields plumbed series / parallel
was more eff. and better for basic driving. Jays getting close to finishing
his conversion so hopefully we'll have some data soon on his Gamera9 motor.
Glad to hear things are really moving for you and best of luck.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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--- Begin Message ---
I finally got ahold of the Theater, and I'll be parking my Sparrow
right out in front. I'm also planning on being there before and
after the movie on Tuesday, and before the movie on Weds and Thurs.
I'm going to get some of the flyers other people have mentioned,
including some of the ones from the EAA site. (For the ones I end up
printing myself, I'm going to add SEVA contact info to them!)
So, I won't be at the SEVA meeting on Tuesday, I'll be at a different EVent!
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NOTE that if either the Zivan or the Lester is not isolated
then you may be in for a nice fireworks when hooking up the
bad boy, because - as the name indicates - it is a dangerous
device if you are fully aware of what you are doing.
Bruce P has quite some experience in parallel charging
his Blazer pack (he has 6 charger plugs on his grille)
so he may have some suggestions on what to do/avoid.
But in general - use either a bad boy alone or restrict
yourself to well-behaved chargers, don't mix those two.
Before combining multiple chargers, always check if they
are "live" - meaning if they have a direct galvanic
connection to the grid. If more than one has this, you
cannot guarantee how currents will flow and instead of
charging faster, you may blow up your chargers and have
no charging.
Even if one charger has a galvanic conenction, the fact
that there are multiple (capacitive) paths to the grid
could mean that you are contantly tripping GFCI's and
the result is that charging is not going to be faster,
though it depends on the charger types and your own
installation.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: multiple chargers
Who uses a Zivan with a bad boy?.
Does anyone use a Zivan, badboy, and a Lester?
I know the batteries, the lester and the badboy can handle it, but my
biggest concern is, can the Zivan handle such a situation. I don't know
electrical theorgy, and all electrical practice comes from.... Practice.
(just something to know for the rare occurence I would want to dump 30 amps
in for 1-2 hours (zivan 13 ,bad boy 7, & lester 10)
Thanks for any knowledge.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree, laws vary widely, as does the enforcement of them. My experience
was in Texas, where a legal corportation could be set up very cheaply and
offer immense protection. This was 10 years ago, too, and may have changed.
Another option, as I have recently discovered, is to put everything in
someone else's name. People make a lot of money in Maryland buying worn out
cars, cleaning them up a bit, rolling back the odometer, and selling them as
average mileage cars. I got burned a couple of months ago buying a car from
an "individual" that showed 108,000 miles. Found out a month later it
actually had 168,000 miles. The state will do absolutely nothing. They
only enforce the law against licensed dealers. USDOT will do absolutely
nothing. My only option is a civil suit against the individual. Found out
he has absolutely nothing, lives in a rented house, and doesn't keep
anything in his name. Bottom line, I'm stuck with no recourse.
Dave
From: Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Our litigious society
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 16:05:35 -0700 (PDT)
Victor brings up a good point: laws are different from state to state. I
like this law - it enforces responsibility. California doesn't have a law
exactly like this, but the general principle does apply in many places: if
your corporation is just "on paper" the courts may ignore it and find you
personally responsible anyway.
But like I said: Do your best, be honest, take responsibility, and things
usually will work out OK. Try to figure out a scam or a "Get out of jail
free" gimmick and, well, you may have problems somewhere down the road.
Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave Davidson wrote:
> Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
>
> Having said that, I would suggest forming a corporation, which would
> then build and sell the EVs. Have a lawyer draw up the incorporation
> papers to make sure you're well protected. The corporation could lease
> space, equipment, etc. from another corporation or even from you. If
> somone sues, only the assets of the corporation can normally be at
> risk. If the corporation has no assets, there is nothing to lose.
Yes, I can see you're not a lawyer :-)
The statement above is incorrect: if you form the corporation
it only have legal status of corporation (with all its protection)
if it has minimum set of assets worth I think $50k (at least in Oregon)
others *must be able to* sue for if they choose to. You *cannot*
have legal protection of the corp status without allowing others to
take advantage of responsibilities a corp must have. Now, you don't
need actual $50k of assets, you must at least have $50k insurance
coverage someone *has to be able to win* if they sue and you loose.
This insurance is $600-$700 /year.
If you have no assent and no insurance, you don't have
corporation in the eyes of a law - you're *personally* liable
and CAN loose your own assets if loose in court, despite filed
status of corporation. If you want to take advantage of corp protection,
you *must* provide opportunity for others to take advantage of
that corporation (or from you - your choice) as well.
It's 2-way street.
That's what my lawyer told me when incorporating so we took care of this
with appropriate arrangements.
Even having your own [paper] company but not being employed by it
and subcontracting with it still does not always protect you personally
- people must be able to sue for something real - yours or company's
or insurance's.
Bottom line: one condition allowing you to take advantage of
the system (corp. status) is the system can take advantage of you
(or your insurance). If it can't, you can't either.
Don't make mistake about it.
Situation in your state may be different.
Victor
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rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's some great stuff there. I would imagine that using a common shaft
and one common end plate would eliminate some weight from using two separate
motors. Can anyone confirm the system weight? We've done a common shaft
dual PP100 with 1100 Nm, and I'd like to compare. The only other points I'd
be curious about would be efficiencies and lifetime.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 1:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN
Warp 8s)
Hey Andrew
I'm not sure but I believe motor (could be wrong being just the dumbass
motor guy, LMAO). Of course the Siamese8 doesn't have a standard keyed
shaft no more!
In fact Matt Graham has had some shaft issues (as did John) with the keyed
shafts and pounding the motors as hard as they do. Regardless of where it's
calculated from, both cars are in fact, amazing to see!
John has lots of pics posted of the Siamese8 and the Dutchman shaft that
was plugged into it 8^ )
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
Sorry I can't confirm but I don't wanna bug John at work again 8^ P
Hope this helps.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Andrew Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is that torque figure through a gearbox or off the motor shaft? I have a
very hard time believing that a 9" motor can provide that kind of shaft
torque. I'd also be worried about the keyed shaft. I'd love to be
disproven though as it would be amazing to see.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN
Warp 8s)
Hey Don
I just called John up being we havent talked in a while. He told me that
although the 8's haven't been dyno tested he believes they fall somewhere in
the 240 HP area. The 772 ft lbs of torque have been calculated and he feels
that's a pretty solid number to quote. Now he also stated that it would be
even higher with a stouter battery pack as even with his current Hawkers
he's battery limited 8^ )
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Don Cameron wrote:
>The Warp 8s will do
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--- Begin Message ---
Andrej Skvorc wrote:
> I'm thinking to get 0-60 MPH (0-100 KMH) in 15 sec, and range
> atleast 40 miles (64 km)... but i would be happy to get also 30
miles...
> my daily drive to work and back home is around 12-15 km thats
> around 7-9 miles
These seem like quite realistic goals.
> i was thinking of using some electric engine on 72 V and 6 batteries
> just to pass the inspection and add another 6 batteries
> later.. or mybe just add 2 more batteries for 96 V system...
> what would you recomend for engine... would 72 V - 96 V system
> be good enough for my needs ?
I don't think that 72V or even 96V will give you the acceleration you
desire, and certainly a 72 or 96V string of Optimas will not get you the
sort of range you are looking for, except perhaps if you are travelling
at very low speed.
> which controler to use... what do you recomend?
A Z1K is the obvious choice, however, with the present demand
outsripping supply, lead times are long and given your modest
performance objectives I would suggest that a Curtis 1231C might be
quite a reasonable alternative.
> i have optima blue and red top batteries -
The red tops (RT) are starting batteries only and will not last in a
deep cycle application like this. The blue tops (BT) come in two
flavours, one of which is also a starting battery; stay away from this
one also! Only consider the Optima models that come in a light grey
case; the light grey case indicates a deep cycle model, the dark grey
case indicates a starting battery model.
The Optimas could be a good choice for your application since you will
be calling upon the batteries to deliver relatively high currents if you
go with a lower pack voltage, and the Optimas are proven to stand up
well in such service.
> I'm thinking about converting one off this three cars, all are FWD ...
> which one would be better? i think i could get some 100 kg
> (220 lbs) of each of them...
> 1. Hyundai Atos - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Atos
> 2. Hyundai Getz (also know as Click or TB) -
> 3. Hyundai Accent from 1998 (also know as Verna) -
Of these, the Atos has the highest payload capacity (994lbs), then the
Accent (968lbs), then the Getz at a significantly lower 748lbs.
The 220lbs you expect to remove will be roughly consumed by the weight
of the motor, controller, cabling, and battery boxes you add, so the
payload has to accommodate both your battery weight and whatever payload
you expect to carry. Less 200lbs for the driver, the Atos allows for up
to 794lbs of batteries, which could allow 17 Optimas for a 204V system.
A Curtis only allows for up to a 144V pack and a Z1K-LV for up to 156V.
If you want to carry a passenger, you have about 600lbs available for
the pack, which cuts you down to about 13 Optimas, for a 156V pack. 12
Optimas drops you to 144V and allows the use of a Curtis. This setup
would allow you to make your commute to or from work, but you would have
to recharge at work unless you don't mind cycling the pack deeply and
wearing it out more quickly.
If your speed requirements are more lax than the range requirement, then
you might benefit from using a lower voltage pack of flooded batteries,
but you'd be hard-pressed to get above 72V in a 600lb flooded pack (9 x
8V @ 65lbs each), and the main advantage of going to flooded is that you
would be able to get more cycle from them when discharging them deeply.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Andrew
You like that do ya?? LMAO. Thanks.
I believe (Wayland correct me here) that the end results left the motor
weighing 222 lbs. I remember cause of that old TV show "romm 222" LMAO, God
I'm getting old! That should be down from the 125 lbs. each that's posted at
ADC.
Wayland called me back a little while ago and confirmed the 772 ft. lbs. as
coming from the motor shaft also. A big reason he got Keith at Dutchmans
involved with that shaft!
As to it's longevity, and I say this with the utmost pride (see Johns motto)
that despite a couple of flashovers (both not the motors fault IMO) the motor
had it's first Bday last month 8^ ) So being niether John nor Tim, nor Ted
West could kill it so far makes me a very happy man!
I am hoping to go through it this winter and add some Kevlar comm banding
where I'll see how the bearing are doing etc. I'm sure John will post pics
when it happens. I have a feeling he's cooking something up for next year as
my ears are just burning, LMAO! Being he's running low to mid 6K rpms already
I'm hoping he'll allow me to band it up before he presses past the point of no
return.
As to it's eff, hopefully we can get John to chime in here, but from memory
his little 1200 is very eff. and he don't baby the motors or batteries either
when he drives it. If you think about the fact that you have 1 less bearings
friction being applied and it is running as true as it can then you have less
losses in heat there. I did add a much larger bearing to the drive / "other"
comm end (LMAO) to help hold the beast in line with it's monster torque though.
Glad you enjoyed.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Andrew Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That's some great stuff there. I would imagine that using a common shaft
and one common end plate would eliminate some weight from using two separate
motors. Can anyone confirm the system weight? We've done a common shaft
dual PP100 with 1100 Nm, and I'd like to compare. The only other points I'd
be curious about would be efficiencies and lifetime.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 1:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN
Warp 8s)
Hey Andrew
I'm not sure but I believe motor (could be wrong being just the dumbass
motor guy, LMAO). Of course the Siamese8 doesn't have a standard keyed
shaft no more!
In fact Matt Graham has had some shaft issues (as did John) with the keyed
shafts and pounding the motors as hard as they do. Regardless of where it's
calculated from, both cars are in fact, amazing to see!
John has lots of pics posted of the Siamese8 and the Dutchman shaft that
was plugged into it 8^ )
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
Sorry I can't confirm but I don't wanna bug John at work again 8^ P
Hope this helps.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Andrew Roberts wrote:
Is that torque figure through a gearbox or off the motor shaft? I have a
very hard time believing that a 9" motor can provide that kind of shaft
torque. I'd also be worried about the keyed shaft. I'd love to be
disproven though as it would be amazing to see.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN
Warp 8s)
Hey Don
I just called John up being we havent talked in a while. He told me that
although the 8's haven't been dyno tested he believes they fall somewhere in
the 240 HP area. The 772 ft lbs of torque have been calculated and he feels
that's a pretty solid number to quote. Now he also stated that it would be
even higher with a stouter battery pack as even with his current Hawkers
he's battery limited 8^ )
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Don Cameron wrote:
>The Warp 8s will do
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I have on my hands a recently purchased GE 7" motor. It's dirty and
nasty, and has a thick layer of gray paint on the outside (and even some
on the inside). After paint removal, sanding, cleaning, etc, I was
going to paint it (the exterior) with the same paint that's used for
ICE motor blocks.
Any reason that this cannot be done, or are there suggestions for better
/ different coatings to use?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Eric
High-temp rattlecan paint works just fine, in fact really good. If the motor
heats up at all it'll just cure it instead of cooking it off 8^ )
Cya
Jim Husted
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have on my hands a recently purchased GE 7" motor. It's dirty and
nasty, and has a thick layer of gray paint on the outside (and even some
on the inside). After paint removal, sanding, cleaning, etc, I was
going to paint it (the exterior) with the same paint that's used for
ICE motor blocks.
Any reason that this cannot be done, or are there suggestions for better
/ different coatings to use?
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well now that Jim said it was ok. I repainted my rusted Advanced motor with
some rattle can high temp stuff 2 years ago or so and it still looks all nice
and shiney without any problems at all. I just made sure to cover all the holes
and the studs for the battery cables and it was really easy to do.
Now as for the rest of my vehicle that I didn't repaint that is a whole
'nother story. I wonder if the 9" would fit in the Freedom EV when my S-15
falls apart :-)
----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2006 5:12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Painting a motor?
Hey Eric
High-temp rattlecan paint works just fine, in fact really good. If the motor
heats up at all it'll just cure it instead of cooking it off 8^ )
Cya
Jim Husted
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have on my hands a recently purchased GE 7" motor. It's dirty and
nasty, and has a thick layer of gray paint on the outside (and even some
on the inside). After paint removal, sanding, cleaning, etc, I was
going to paint it (the exterior) with the same paint that's used for
ICE motor blocks.
Any reason that this cannot be done, or are there suggestions for better
/ different coatings to use?
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well now that Jim said it was ok. I repainted my rusted Advanced motor with
some rattle can high temp stuff 2 years ago or so and it still looks all nice
and shiney without any problems at all. I just made sure to cover all the holes
and the studs for the battery cables and it was really easy to do.
That just made me crack up so hard 8^ ) (what so if I say jump off a cliff,
hehe) Here's a little secret... Shhhh... The Siamese8 is just a rattle can
paint job and it's not even hi-temp paint. I actually brought the housings
down to the Wayland juice bar last year and John painted them himself with his
color choice right there in his driveway outside the garage, so if your motors
are not overheating even regular old rattlecan will work just fine and there's
a lot more colors to choose from, 8^P
In fact it's a lot better to repaint a rusting motor cheaply than to just let
it rust! Being these motors in an EV enviroment tend to be exposed to wetter
conditions than most forklifts its good to keep them coated and rust free, best
one can. Just so you know, a motor can get hot enough to cook regular paint
off but then again you have bigger problems then cooking paint, so it's almost
that canary in a coal mine thing. Kind of a paint temp. gauge LMAO!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Husted
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2006 5:12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Painting a motor?
Hey Eric
High-temp rattlecan paint works just fine, in fact really good. If the motor
heats up at all it'll just cure it instead of cooking it off 8^ )
Cya
Jim Husted
Eric Poulsen wrote:
I have on my hands a recently purchased GE 7" motor. It's dirty and
nasty, and has a thick layer of gray paint on the outside (and even some
on the inside). After paint removal, sanding, cleaning, etc, I was
going to paint it (the exterior) with the same paint that's used for
ICE motor blocks.
Any reason that this cannot be done, or are there suggestions for better
/ different coatings to use?
---------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
My truck can stop incrediblyfast with regen set to 100%. So it's a
safety issue not having the brake lights come on during regen.
The ACP cars have their railights come on with 50 amps of regen or
more. The USE vehicles have documentation that they wanted to do the
same thing at 50 amps, but changed their minds. I'm wanting the brake
lights to come on over 5 amps of regen.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> My Dodge TEVan has regen in Low range that starts about 1 to 1.5 seconds
> after you let off the accelerator. It does NOT turn on the brake
lights. In
> High range when you let off the accelerator it coasts until pressing the
> brake pedal. The brake system has a normal brake light switch and
the regen
> system has a pressure actuator for the regen. The harder the braking
- the
> higher the regen. Regen can be as high as 150A into a nominal 180V
pack.
>
> BTW: I don't know of any vehicle that activates the brake lights
when you
> let off the accelerator or downshift and use the engine to brake
with. Even
> tractor-trailers don't have brake lights connected to the "Jake-Brake".
>
> Jim
> '93 Dodge TEVan
> '88 Fiero ESE
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it isn't looking good in CARFAX, don't buy it unless you don't care.
That avoids buying rolled back, wrecked and other salvaged junk for
as-new prices.
In case the individual advertises in certain media (like the popular
Craigslist) you can from time to time post a warning against him
with your experiences, that will tell others to avoid him, but
requires some of your attention all the time.
I am assuming that you confronted the individual already?
Since the person is renting and selling cars, he has income so
even if he can't pay a large bill, that does not mean he is broke.
It is a hassle to go to small claims court or somethinng like that
and then get the person to pay - I do not know if you have those
helpful bureaus to reclaim your money, like impounding one of the
cars he is trying to sell.
Not a nice situation to be in anyway - better avoid getting there.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dave Davidson
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 2:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Our litigious society
I agree, laws vary widely, as does the enforcement of them. My experience
was in Texas, where a legal corportation could be set up very cheaply and
offer immense protection. This was 10 years ago, too, and may have changed.
Another option, as I have recently discovered, is to put everything in
someone else's name. People make a lot of money in Maryland buying worn out
cars, cleaning them up a bit, rolling back the odometer, and selling them as
average mileage cars. I got burned a couple of months ago buying a car from
an "individual" that showed 108,000 miles. Found out a month later it
actually had 168,000 miles. The state will do absolutely nothing. They
only enforce the law against licensed dealers. USDOT will do absolutely
nothing. My only option is a civil suit against the individual. Found out
he has absolutely nothing, lives in a rented house, and doesn't keep
anything in his name. Bottom line, I'm stuck with no recourse.
Dave
>From: Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Our litigious society
>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 16:05:35 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Victor brings up a good point: laws are different from state to state. I
>like this law - it enforces responsibility. California doesn't have a law
>exactly like this, but the general principle does apply in many places: if
>your corporation is just "on paper" the courts may ignore it and find you
>personally responsible anyway.
>
>But like I said: Do your best, be honest, take responsibility, and things
>usually will work out OK. Try to figure out a scam or a "Get out of jail
>free" gimmick and, well, you may have problems somewhere down the road.
>
>Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave Davidson wrote:
> > Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
> >
> > Having said that, I would suggest forming a corporation, which would
> > then build and sell the EVs. Have a lawyer draw up the incorporation
> > papers to make sure you're well protected. The corporation could lease
> > space, equipment, etc. from another corporation or even from you. If
> > somone sues, only the assets of the corporation can normally be at
> > risk. If the corporation has no assets, there is nothing to lose.
>
>Yes, I can see you're not a lawyer :-)
>
>The statement above is incorrect: if you form the corporation
>it only have legal status of corporation (with all its protection)
>if it has minimum set of assets worth I think $50k (at least in Oregon)
>others *must be able to* sue for if they choose to. You *cannot*
>have legal protection of the corp status without allowing others to
>take advantage of responsibilities a corp must have. Now, you don't
>need actual $50k of assets, you must at least have $50k insurance
>coverage someone *has to be able to win* if they sue and you loose.
>This insurance is $600-$700 /year.
>
>If you have no assent and no insurance, you don't have
>corporation in the eyes of a law - you're *personally* liable
>and CAN loose your own assets if loose in court, despite filed
>
>status of corporation. If you want to take advantage of corp protection,
>you *must* provide opportunity for others to take advantage of
>that corporation (or from you - your choice) as well.
>
>It's 2-way street.
>
>That's what my lawyer told me when incorporating so we took care of this
>with appropriate arrangements.
>
>Even having your own [paper] company but not being employed by it
>and subcontracting with it still does not always protect you personally
>- people must be able to sue for something real - yours or company's
>or insurance's.
>
>Bottom line: one condition allowing you to take advantage of
>the system (corp. status) is the system can take advantage of you
>(or your insurance). If it can't, you can't either.
>
>Don't make mistake about it.
>
>Situation in your state may be different.
>
>Victor
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
>rates.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sooo - do not set the regen so absurdly high if that gives you a situation
you want to avoid.
When you set the regen for the accelerator released to 10%
or something like that, you have exactly what you want.
Press the brake pedal for more regen and your brake lights
come on automatically as a bonus!
I do not see the problem.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 3:58 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Brake lights on regen
My truck can stop incrediblyfast with regen set to 100%. So it's a
safety issue not having the brake lights come on during regen.
The ACP cars have their railights come on with 50 amps of regen or
more. The USE vehicles have documentation that they wanted to do the
same thing at 50 amps, but changed their minds. I'm wanting the brake
lights to come on over 5 amps of regen.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> My Dodge TEVan has regen in Low range that starts about 1 to 1.5 seconds
> after you let off the accelerator. It does NOT turn on the brake
lights. In
> High range when you let off the accelerator it coasts until pressing the
> brake pedal. The brake system has a normal brake light switch and
the regen
> system has a pressure actuator for the regen. The harder the braking
- the
> higher the regen. Regen can be as high as 150A into a nominal 180V
pack.
>
> BTW: I don't know of any vehicle that activates the brake lights
when you
> let off the accelerator or downshift and use the engine to brake
with. Even
> tractor-trailers don't have brake lights connected to the "Jake-Brake".
>
> Jim
> '93 Dodge TEVan
> '88 Fiero ESE
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello
I had a 97 Solectria Force for a while. I am not sure but is this the same
motor it had? It was a 156 volt system I don't know what bumping that up to
312 would do but I am looking for a lot more performance than one single
motor.
I plan not to have a transmission and that weight would be the second motor.
I live in an area with a lot of hills. An example of one is 3 Ah up and I
could recover 1 Ah in one half of a mile in the Solectria. The S-10 NiMH and
Ranger trucks I drive do not have enough regeneration to stop the vehicle. In
fact it they gain speed and I have to use the brakes.
I also want to this EV to drive more like a sports car. Valance batteries
would be an option and I already have NiMH batteries but that would be about
1100 pounds of batteries. For most my local driving I don't go over 20 miles so
a small size Hawker could be another option. If I can buy the A123 battery
that would be about what I need.
I don't see a downside to having the two motors and if I don't like the
results I can just spilt them up and use them on some other projects. From the
post on the list it sounds like my biggest road block would be buying a Zilla
Z1K or Z2K.
I would consider the A55 motor if I could link two together. I noticed they
do weigh a lot. I not looking to just blow a mountain of money but I am
willing to spend what it takes to build this.
Don
In a message dated 10/5/2006 1:14:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I didn't think saving money was a priority:
>> The DC motor and controller would be 10,000 the Siemens system cost
>> 15,000 total cost 25,000
ElectroAuto prices a complete AC55 conversion kit at $10,000
Just the motor is $1,400.
I've considered building a controller for the AC55 motor, and probably
will, but I'll put it on the top of my todo list for $10K. :)
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
> Jack Murray wrote:
>
>> But why not just use a big AC motor instead??
>> Such as the Azure AC55, a 13.5" 177 ft-lbs
>
>
> Certainly; that's the obvious way to do it. It just costs more. I think
> theoldcars was looking for a way to save some money.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[ref
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/76939
]
Hi Andrej,
Rodger gave some good ideas. The Atos has a rear area that might
have room for all the batteries without losing the rear seat. See
http://www.in.gr/auto/dokimes/pr_dokimes_in/Hyundai_Atos/big/in_Hyundai_Atos_19.jpg
Since the Atos has a higher payload, it is likely to have a
stronger suspension and brakes as well (better suited for
conversions).
Rodger has a point about your acceleration to top speed with a
lower voltage pack. Generally a lower voltage pack with a lower
amperage controller/motor set means less horsepower to the
wheels, meaning less acceleration and less top speed.
But all may not be lost if you are going to start with a 72 V
to pass an inspection and later convert to a higher voltage.
Perhaps you could design your battery rack to accomdate different
types of batteries and / or numbers of batteries, so you could
adjust the size and type of pack to fit your needs.
What motor and controller do you plan to use?
What battery charger you plan to use? What type of chargers
are available in your area?
The type of charger you use will matter depending on what your
charging-time needs are, what batteries you decide to use, and
what available power you can plug into (what amperage outlets are
available. Assuming all outlets where you are are 220 VAC).
I do not know the battery companies you had links for, but if
you want range with Lead-acid, go with 6 V traction batteries,
and avoid batteries for starting engines (ICE).
The term deep-cycle can be mis-leading. See if the battery is
being sold for golf cart or industrial cart use, and not also
rated for starting an engine (ICE).
Then you will have a battery that has thicker and fewer plates
(the type you want). Batteries for renewable energy uses
(i.e.: Solar. etc.) may have the capacity you seek, but may not
be designed to handle the vibrations from a vehicle.
Possibly the MP 6V http://www.monbat.com/mnltpen.html might be
what you are looking for for use in a 72 or 96 V pack.
Optima's are good batteries, but mostly for higher voltage packs
and EV system designs that seek higher horsepower, and less
about range.
Optima's are AGM lead-acid batteries that need a charger that
is designed to charge them. Also an AGM pack will benefit from
having smoother's installed. Wet-cell lead-acid batteries are less
work and usually at a much lower cost (low-tech = low-cost).
Have you decided on a 12 V aux battery or a DC to DC converter
yet?
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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