EV Digest 5974
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) $18K conversion on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) motor alignment question
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: motor alignment question
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
by Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: $18K conversion on eBay
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) How is Tommy Chong's low-rider coming
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: LED brakelights
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Zilla BackOrder
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Zilla BackOrder
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: LED brakelights
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: LED brakelights
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: LED brakelights
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: AC and DC together?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: useful links on EV costs, surplus equipment
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: AC and DC together?
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: OT: Hybrid electric/air?
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) WKtEK in Anchorage...again
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: LED brakelights
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: LED brakelights
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: WKTEC in Geneva Ny Oct 13-15-16-17
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: LED brakelights
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
...and that's the starting bid. This has been on eBay before, but no-one made
the starting bid, and with OEM Rangers on eBay averaging $12K, a 14 yr old
conversion, even if fully repaired, can't be worth more than a 5-8 yr old
production EV:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220034731488
I think the statement "when the batteries reach their full performance levels
the range will be between 75 150 miles" is far from truthful; this pickup
uses the same components as a VoltsPorsche, which posts a range of 80-100
miles. With the extra weight and poorer aero (both frontal area and Cd) of a
pickup, this seller's claimed 50-60mi range is probably not going to improve.
It does look very clean and well-constructed, but I think only RAV4's are going
for more than their purchase price right now, and the NiMH pack is a big
reason.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have my motor mount back from the welder and the motor is temporarily
installed. I have a bit more refining to get the transmission bell
housing at the pre-conversion height. I am concerned that the mount I
have fabricated may not align the motor exactly square to the
transmission. Given that I only took the vertical height measurement I
don't know for sure if or how much out of alignment the motor is.
Am I in for a potential safety hazard, gross inefficiency or possibly
both.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey John
You forgot premature shaft and bearing wear 8^ P Although you maybe excited
to get it running, get it right and you'll be happier in the end, and you won't
be asking what it costs for shaft replacement in a few months.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have my motor mount back from the welder and the motor is temporarily
installed. I have a bit more refining to get the transmission bell
housing at the pre-conversion height. I am concerned that the mount I
have fabricated may not align the motor exactly square to the
transmission. Given that I only took the vertical height measurement I
don't know for sure if or how much out of alignment the motor is.
Am I in for a potential safety hazard, gross inefficiency or possibly
both.
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small
Business.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Right. But that still means that they run the whole time the car is
plugged in, cooling the batteries even when charging has completed. I'd
like to keep my batteries as warm as possible in winter. And my
original setup did that by shutting the fans off when the charge was
complete.
Thanks,
Jake Oshins
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
You only need to run the fans while the charger
is actually charging, so the simplest way to avoid your
pack or aux battery can be run down by the fans is
to power them from the charger *input*, essentially
straight from the plug (with transformer and rectifier
to create the proper voltage).
When the plug loses power, for example when you unplug the
car, it is OK for the fans to stop UNLESS you need them
for cooling the batteries, then you need to use either
the pack or the 12V acc battery to power them.
YMMV.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jake Oshins
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
So what did you do about the battery box fans? With the Zivan charger,
they only run while the charger is charging. Do you just strap them so
that they run while the car is plugged in?
Thanks,
Jake
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Edward Ang
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
Jake,
On the EV's I upgraded to use the PFC series chargers, I simply
replaced the AC interlock relay with a 12V relay. On the Sparrow, it
is a direct drop-in replacement. I then use a 12V universal input
switching power supply to power the relay.
On 10/2/06, Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So how do people usually wire up a PFC-30 so that you can't drive away
> while it's charging?
>
>
>
> Can I use the +5V from the Regbus to trigger a relay? If so, how much
> power can I safely draw from it? Will the regs pull that line high
even
> when I'm not charging?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jake Oshins
>
>
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes! I have seen that space-box before!
Great artistic work, but a pity to lose
the premium place in the bed.
I regularly carry some cargo and like to
place it as far forward as possible, no
matter whether it's a bike, a dozen
crates with stones or other loose stuff.
When I brake it will come forward and
for weight distribution I need to have
it at the front, between the four wheels.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:37 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: $18K conversion on eBay
...and that's the starting bid. This has been on eBay before, but no-one
made
the starting bid, and with OEM Rangers on eBay averaging $12K, a 14 yr old
conversion, even if fully repaired, can't be worth more than a 5-8 yr old
production EV:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220034731488
I think the statement "when the batteries reach their full performance
levels
the range will be between 75 - 150 miles" is far from truthful; this pickup
uses the same components as a VoltsPorsche, which posts a range of 80-100
miles. With the extra weight and poorer aero (both frontal area and Cd) of a
pickup, this seller's claimed 50-60mi range is probably not going to
improve.
It does look very clean and well-constructed, but I think only RAV4's are
going
for more than their purchase price right now, and the NiMH pack is a big
reason.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, we are shooting the end of Tommy's car on
saturday. We are using it for a sizzle reel for a
series we're pitching. Tommy is also using it for a
pilot of a show that he is shooting. There are also
two other shows that are being pitched that have to do
with conversions. One is being pitched to a major
network.
Gadget
> To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: How is Tommy Chong's low-rider coming
> along, and TV show?
>
> All,
> I was just listening to a call in show on our local
> community radio station
> KGNU 88.5 FM, whilst trying to catch up on EVDL
> posts, interviewing Tommy
> Chong about his new book. At the end of the
> interview he mentioned that he
> just came from the shop that is working on his
> eelectric low-rider, which
> I'm assuming was Reverend Gadgets place. He also
> mentioned a TV show about
> it. So, what's up with that?
> BB
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Normal brake light is 12V 21W
so with DC/DC inefficiencies the 65W can easily
draw more than 80W.
Just how often are you braking?
I think that when I add all the time in my 20 - 25 min
commute that I am actually sitting on the brake, it
will total around 2 - 3 min (on level road I do not brake
once stopped, on slight upramp I keep the accelerator
a tiny bit depressed to hold the vehicle with an
unmeasurable amount of current from the pack.)
Just as unmeasurable as the brake light consumption:
If you brake for 3 min that will cost you 1/20 (3min/60min)
times the power consumption (=90W) or about 5Wh.
If your vehicle is well aligned and needs 200Wh/mi this
means that the brake lights cost you 1/40 mile range.
I do not think those 120 feet makes a real difference
that is so much of a cencern that you should worry
about them.
If you drive 1 mph less fast or take off 1/2 second slower
then you are going to gain much more range.
Better focus on tire rolling resistance, bearing quality,
brake drag, aerodynamics and all those other big energy
consumers, before paying attention to the issues below the
0.1% line.
YMMV.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: LED brakelights
The emeter shows a drop of .3 amps when I step on the brake pedal. With
out more accuracy it could be .21 amps at 300v. 60w is close to 3 brake
lamp elements IIRC.
Mike
--- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 09:20 PM 10/5/2006, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> >At 08:55 PM 10/5/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> >>I'm wanting to replace my 3 brake light bulbs as they pull .3 amps
> from
> >>the 300v pack thru the dc-dc. That's just a plain waste. Then there
> are
> >>the 2 running light elements as well.
> >
> >Wow, you must have BRIGHT brake lights. 900W of power!
> >
> >Somehow I don't think your brake lights are pulling 3A out of a 300v
> pack.
>
> Oops, now I see the decimal point.
> I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
?? My bad then, I thought induction, as more common type,
is the main line of UQM moors. Sorry, I need to pay better attention
to the info on the web...
So, only synchronous PM machines (As far as usable in an EV) or any
other types as well?
Victor
Andrew Roberts wrote:
Victor, UQM does not sell any induction machines. As for your other
questions, I couldn't find a way to respond without sounding like a paid
advertiser. We can discuss offline.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I keep meaning to drop him a line.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> >I have been hearing about the zilla back order from everyone except
> >Otmar so I shot him a quick email to see how lifes treating him.
Since a
> >few people at work who drive golf carts between buildings all day have
> >taken notice of My EV and are asking about where to get parts.
> >
> >Otmar Hasn't been able to keep up with the list but said he is
currently
> >on Feburary's orders and doing soldering himself, but is really
hopefull
> >about the new hire. I wonder if a "meet and solder" weekend to help hi
> >catch up would be a great EV weekend. Kind of take a break from racing
> >to pay homage to one of the driving forces :-).
> >
> >
> I think this is a *great* idea. Does anyone here know what skill level
> it takes to assemble a complete Zilla? Would it make sense to sell
them
> in "unassembled kit" form?
>
> Steve
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the math. Still, if the hardware is available I might as
well use it.
Where can I get a vacuum switch that can handle 5 amps at 12v?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Normal brake light is 12V 21W
> so with DC/DC inefficiencies the 65W can easily
> draw more than 80W.
>
> Just how often are you braking?
> I think that when I add all the time in my 20 - 25 min
> commute that I am actually sitting on the brake, it
> will total around 2 - 3 min (on level road I do not brake
> once stopped, on slight upramp I keep the accelerator
> a tiny bit depressed to hold the vehicle with an
> unmeasurable amount of current from the pack.)
> Just as unmeasurable as the brake light consumption:
> If you brake for 3 min that will cost you 1/20 (3min/60min)
> times the power consumption (=90W) or about 5Wh.
> If your vehicle is well aligned and needs 200Wh/mi this
> means that the brake lights cost you 1/40 mile range.
> I do not think those 120 feet makes a real difference
> that is so much of a cencern that you should worry
> about them.
> If you drive 1 mph less fast or take off 1/2 second slower
> then you are going to gain much more range.
> Better focus on tire rolling resistance, bearing quality,
> brake drag, aerodynamics and all those other big energy
> consumers, before paying attention to the issues below the
> 0.1% line.
>
> YMMV.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: LED brakelights
>
>
> The emeter shows a drop of .3 amps when I step on the brake pedal. With
> out more accuracy it could be .21 amps at 300v. 60w is close to 3 brake
> lamp elements IIRC.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > At 09:20 PM 10/5/2006, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > >At 08:55 PM 10/5/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> > >>I'm wanting to replace my 3 brake light bulbs as they pull .3 amps
> > from
> > >>the 300v pack thru the dc-dc. That's just a plain waste. Then there
> > are
> > >>the 2 running light elements as well.
> > >
> > >Wow, you must have BRIGHT brake lights. 900W of power!
> > >
> > >Somehow I don't think your brake lights are pulling 3A out of a 300v
> > pack.
> >
> > Oops, now I see the decimal point.
> > I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
> >
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> >
> >
>
>
> Here's to the crazy ones.
> The misfits.
> The rebels.
> The troublemakers.
> The round pegs in the square holes.
> The ones who see things differently
> The ones that change the world!!
>
> www.RotorDesign.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I just did.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I keep meaning to drop him a line.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Lacy <ev@> wrote:
> >
> > Jeff Shanab wrote:
> >
> > >I have been hearing about the zilla back order from everyone except
> > >Otmar so I shot him a quick email to see how lifes treating him.
> Since a
> > >few people at work who drive golf carts between buildings all day
have
> > >taken notice of My EV and are asking about where to get parts.
> > >
> > >Otmar Hasn't been able to keep up with the list but said he is
> currently
> > >on Feburary's orders and doing soldering himself, but is really
> hopefull
> > >about the new hire. I wonder if a "meet and solder" weekend to
help hi
> > >catch up would be a great EV weekend. Kind of take a break from
racing
> > >to pay homage to one of the driving forces :-).
> > >
> > >
> > I think this is a *great* idea. Does anyone here know what skill
level
> > it takes to assemble a complete Zilla? Would it make sense to sell
> them
> > in "unassembled kit" form?
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you care, look on my site how I did it:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/lighting.htm
This was done back in 2001 when no one use to sell LED replacement lamps
(widely as today, only buses use to use them).
Even if they would, I'd do it anyway. It takes time and is was
Fun project, and my LEDs dub as the status display.
But if you only want to save battery energy with minimal effort,
such undertaking is not practical - just buy replacement LED lamps and
they will look like stock while working better.
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different.
Phil Marino wrote:
In an effort to minimize my 12V draw ( especially since I'm using a 25
amp Sevcon, which is barely enough, with a small aux battery for
buffering) I'm thinking about trying some LED brakelights.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you care, look on my site how I did it:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/lighting.htm
This was done back in 2001 when no one use to sell LED replacement lamps
(widely as today, only buses use to use them).
Even if they would, I'd do it my way anyway. It takes time and is was
fun project -my LEDs dub as the status display as you can see.
But if you only want to save battery energy with minimal effort,
such undertaking is not practical - just buy replacement LED lamps and
they will look like stock while working better.
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different.
Phil Marino wrote:
In an effort to minimize my 12V draw ( especially since I'm using a 25
amp Sevcon, which is barely enough, with a small aux battery for
buffering) I'm thinking about trying some LED brakelights.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you care, look on my site how I did it:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/lighting.htm
This was done back in 2001 when no one use to sell LED replacement lamps
(widely as today, only buses use to use them).
Even if they would, I'd do it my way anyway. It takes time and is was
fun project -my LEDs dub as the status display as you can see.
But if you only want to save battery energy with minimal effort,
such undertaking is not practical - your best bet is certainly
just buy replacement LED lamps and they will look like stock
while working better for you.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different.
Phil Marino wrote:
In an effort to minimize my 12V draw ( especially since I'm using a 25
amp Sevcon, which is barely enough, with a small aux battery for
buffering) I'm thinking about trying some LED brakelights.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All about money? Well maybe it is since I do not want to spend 60,000 on
Brusa motors and controllers. Where do you find an AC motor that you can also
get a controller for that would equal the power of the below? 30,000 would not
be a bad deal for two motors and controllers.
I was just so impressed on how easy the TransWarP 11 with the Turbo 400
would be to install and a second AC motor for regeneration. Also if the battery
power was able to handle it should be fairly fast with both motors. The regen
would save doing brake jobs and extend the range.
I would be willing to use a single AC motor but is there one that would make
a 2600 to 2800 pound vehicle perform?
Don
In a message dated 10/5/2006 4:53:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Jack Murray wrote:
>> But why not just use a big AC motor instead??
>> Such as the Azure AC55, a 13.5" 177 ft-lbs
>
> Certainly; that's the obvious way to do it. It just costs more. I think
> theoldcars was looking for a way to save some money.
Do you really think it would cost more to buy one big AC motor, than a
smaller AC motor, plus a DC motor, plus some way to couple them together,
plus figuring out how to make them work together, plus etc?
Seems to me that the Larger AC motor might be cheaper in the long run, and
certainly easier...and probably more efficient.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When installing solar on your house you may deduct the cost of tools and
fair price for your labor if you do it yourself. Why shouldn't it be the
same for EV's?
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 6:41 pm, Doug Weathers wrote:
On Oct 5, 2006, at 10:01 AM, Rush wrote:
I find it odd that you included the cost of tools, as if the tools
were an integral part of the EV such as the batteries, wire, charger,
etc.
It doesn't seem odd to me. I bought a bunch of tools just for my
conversion. I'm not a car junkie and I didn't have a garage full of
tools when I started. If I wasn't converting an EV I would not have
purchased the tools, so I can legitimately claim my tools as an EV
expense.
Consider it a start-up cost.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can buy the AC Propulsion System used in the X1 and Tesla for
$25K with 150kw motor, controller, regen, and 20KW charger built in
and it is not heavy so you get more performance in an integrated
package, The Azure AC 24 motor was what you had in your old car...
http://www.acpropulsion.com/Products/AC_150.htm
On Oct 5, 2006, at 11:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
All about money? Well maybe it is since I do not want to spend
60,000 on
Brusa motors and controllers. Where do you find an AC motor that
you can also
get a controller for that would equal the power of the below?
30,000 would not
be a bad deal for two motors and controllers.
I was just so impressed on how easy the TransWarP 11 with the Turbo
400
would be to install and a second AC motor for regeneration. Also if
the battery
power was able to handle it should be fairly fast with both motors.
The regen
would save doing brake jobs and extend the range.
I would be willing to use a single AC motor but is there one that
would make
a 2600 to 2800 pound vehicle perform?
Don
In a message dated 10/5/2006 4:53:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jack Murray wrote:
But why not just use a big AC motor instead??
Such as the Azure AC55, a 13.5" 177 ft-lbs
Certainly; that's the obvious way to do it. It just costs more. I
think
theoldcars was looking for a way to save some money.
Do you really think it would cost more to buy one big AC motor,
than a
smaller AC motor, plus a DC motor, plus some way to couple them
together,
plus figuring out how to make them work together, plus etc?
Seems to me that the Larger AC motor might be cheaper in the long
run, and
certainly easier...and probably more efficient.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of
legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that
your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Huh, What is the vacuum switch going to do?
Your brake pedal already has a brake light switch
if that is what you want.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:27 PM
To: Cor van de Water
Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
Thanks for the math. Still, if the hardware is available I might as
well use it.
Where can I get a vacuum switch that can handle 5 amps at 12v?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Normal brake light is 12V 21W
> so with DC/DC inefficiencies the 65W can easily
> draw more than 80W.
>
> Just how often are you braking?
> I think that when I add all the time in my 20 - 25 min
> commute that I am actually sitting on the brake, it
> will total around 2 - 3 min (on level road I do not brake
> once stopped, on slight upramp I keep the accelerator
> a tiny bit depressed to hold the vehicle with an
> unmeasurable amount of current from the pack.)
> Just as unmeasurable as the brake light consumption:
> If you brake for 3 min that will cost you 1/20 (3min/60min)
> times the power consumption (=90W) or about 5Wh.
> If your vehicle is well aligned and needs 200Wh/mi this
> means that the brake lights cost you 1/40 mile range.
> I do not think those 120 feet makes a real difference
> that is so much of a cencern that you should worry
> about them.
> If you drive 1 mph less fast or take off 1/2 second slower
> then you are going to gain much more range.
> Better focus on tire rolling resistance, bearing quality,
> brake drag, aerodynamics and all those other big energy
> consumers, before paying attention to the issues below the
> 0.1% line.
>
> YMMV.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: LED brakelights
>
>
> The emeter shows a drop of .3 amps when I step on the brake pedal. With
> out more accuracy it could be .21 amps at 300v. 60w is close to 3 brake
> lamp elements IIRC.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > At 09:20 PM 10/5/2006, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > >At 08:55 PM 10/5/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> > >>I'm wanting to replace my 3 brake light bulbs as they pull .3 amps
> > from
> > >>the 300v pack thru the dc-dc. That's just a plain waste. Then there
> > are
> > >>the 2 running light elements as well.
> > >
> > >Wow, you must have BRIGHT brake lights. 900W of power!
> > >
> > >Somehow I don't think your brake lights are pulling 3A out of a 300v
> > pack.
> >
> > Oops, now I see the decimal point.
> > I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
> >
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> >
> >
>
>
> Here's to the crazy ones.
> The misfits.
> The rebels.
> The troublemakers.
> The round pegs in the square holes.
> The ones who see things differently
> The ones that change the world!!
>
> www.RotorDesign.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice web site, however the information given is all hype with no
numbers, "100% better efficiency than other air motors", stuff like
that. They are looking for funding or partnerships. Except for some
niche markets air driven vehicles are a dead end. The physics of
compressed air do not allow great range or hi efficiency.
From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: October 5, 2006 6:12:44 PM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: OT: Hybrid electric/air?
Just thought some here might be interested in this tech. Dunno if it
might have any use in EVs:
http://www.engineair.com.au/
tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid
On Oct 5, 2006, at 10:35 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
Mike Swift
Two things only the people anxiously desire—bread and circuses.
Decimus Junius Juvenalls
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well the local pizza pub theather sold out a 320 people showing of WKtEC
tonight. I took the Electrabishi and a bunch of
tri-folds, EV Info sheets from EAA site, business cards about my conversion,
and the "Not Dead Yet" Post cards. I didn't have 320
of any one item ( but at least 50 of each). The croud loved the movie,
clapping, yelling, drinking beer, eating pizza etc. The
theater manager blocked off two spaces for me to park right in front of the
entrance. While that was nice of him, they made
EVeryone leave out the back entrances. No problem, I go out and just drive the
truck around the back and park it right next to
the sidewalk by the back door. Spent an hour handing all my stuff and
answering as many questions as possible. The guy I bought
the batteries from was there and helped a little by telling what he knows about
the conversion from my visits to his shop. (by
the way his boss wants me to build one just like it for their delivery
vehicle). Lots of people and lots of interest. I got the
whole way through, and when know one else was around and I was about to pack it
up, one guy came by, talked a little, and ruined
a perfect Q&A session with the "why don't you put wind turbines on it to charge
while you drive" question. No one else was
around, I told him that would be a good idea and that he should try it
sometime, talked a little more, and left. Many questions
about if I would build them one and where can they get one. I did the best I
could as I'm not interested in building them for a
living, but offered to help in their own efforts if they join the AlaskaEVA :-)
The best part was not only did I get the movie
goers coming out, but the theater/micro-brewery was having the "first-tap" of
the month party. Got a lot of interesting people
going in after the movie. The best comment by someone who didn't really stop
to look long was, "Hey dude, someone ripped off your
engine". I told him "naw, I just gave it away" :-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well they may or may not be like stock.
The stock bulk had an even 360 deg spread. The outer red/yellow lens
has prisms cut in it so it will redirect the light and glow evenly, and
sometimes there is a reflector which will not only make use of the light
projected in the wrong direction initially but does a nice job of
spreading it across the lens.
LEDs are more directional, to varying degrees. I'm assuming the guys
who make drop-in replacements go for the wide beams. While narrow is
helpful for a flashlight, in this application it may only cause the
center of the taillight to glow since no light strikes the lens anywhere
else. The same problem will occur if the LEDs are placed closer to the
lens than the original bulb. Even with the wide beam LEDs, it's still
narrower than a bulb.
IMHO the better solution is to just physically distribute the LEDs
behind the lens. I'm not going to exaggerate the importance of this
though, generally the aftermarket LED drop-in is okay.
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
But if you only want to save battery energy with minimal effort,
such undertaking is not practical - just buy replacement LED lamps and
they will look like stock while working better.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I mentioned before, the 1156 and 1157 replacements from
www.superbrightleds.com are not highly directional, as individual LED's may be.
These replacements are specifically designed to utilize the existing
reflectors to spread the light, as well as the built-in lenses on the LED's
themselves. Mine look great in use, and are plainly visible, even standing
almost directly to the *side* of the car. Just use the replacements the same
color as the lenses, white for backup, amber for turn, red for brake/tail.
Although you didn't do this, some claim LED's are unsafe because they are
highly directional. In this case, I found that to be totally false.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 6, 2006 4:48:46 AM
Subject: Re: LED brakelights
Well they may or may not be like stock.
The stock bulk had an even 360 deg spread. The outer red/yellow lens
has prisms cut in it so it will redirect the light and glow evenly, and
sometimes there is a reflector which will not only make use of the light
projected in the wrong direction initially but does a nice job of
spreading it across the lens.
LEDs are more directional, to varying degrees. I'm assuming the guys
who make drop-in replacements go for the wide beams. While narrow is
helpful for a flashlight, in this application it may only cause the
center of the taillight to glow since no light strikes the lens anywhere
else. The same problem will occur if the LEDs are placed closer to the
lens than the original bulb. Even with the wide beam LEDs, it's still
narrower than a bulb.
IMHO the better solution is to just physically distribute the LEDs
behind the lens. I'm not going to exaggerate the importance of this
though, generally the aftermarket LED drop-in is okay.
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> But if you only want to save battery energy with minimal effort,
> such undertaking is not practical - just buy replacement LED lamps and
> they will look like stock while working better.
>
> Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will be displaying an EV (solectria force) in front of the WKTEC theatre
in Geneva Ny-Smith opera House ( thesmith.org ) and handing out flyers
etc.Might bring my elec lawn mower and daughters elec scooter too. Sounds
like quite a few people around the country are doing the same thing
lately.Any local ev people be sure to show up and help me strut our stuff.
Mike Young -solectria force cars
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 5:22 PM
Subject: WKTEC in Langley, WA. Oct 10-12th
I finally got ahold of the Theater, and I'll be parking my Sparrow right
out in front. I'm also planning on being there before and after the movie
on Tuesday, and before the movie on Weds and Thurs.
I'm going to get some of the flyers other people have mentioned, including
some of the ones from the EAA site. (For the ones I end up printing
myself, I'm going to add SEVA contact info to them!)
So, I won't be at the SEVA meeting on Tuesday, I'll be at a different
EVent!
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't change the topic clearly enough. My vacuum switch for the
power brake vacuum pump is seized. I need a new one.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Huh, What is the vacuum switch going to do?
> Your brake pedal already has a brake light switch
> if that is what you want.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:27 PM
> To: Cor van de Water
> Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
>
>
> Thanks for the math. Still, if the hardware is available I might as
> well use it.
>
> Where can I get a vacuum switch that can handle 5 amps at 12v?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@> wrote:
> >
> > Normal brake light is 12V 21W
> > so with DC/DC inefficiencies the 65W can easily
> > draw more than 80W.
> >
> > Just how often are you braking?
> > I think that when I add all the time in my 20 - 25 min
> > commute that I am actually sitting on the brake, it
> > will total around 2 - 3 min (on level road I do not brake
> > once stopped, on slight upramp I keep the accelerator
> > a tiny bit depressed to hold the vehicle with an
> > unmeasurable amount of current from the pack.)
> > Just as unmeasurable as the brake light consumption:
> > If you brake for 3 min that will cost you 1/20 (3min/60min)
> > times the power consumption (=90W) or about 5Wh.
> > If your vehicle is well aligned and needs 200Wh/mi this
> > means that the brake lights cost you 1/40 mile range.
> > I do not think those 120 feet makes a real difference
> > that is so much of a cencern that you should worry
> > about them.
> > If you drive 1 mph less fast or take off 1/2 second slower
> > then you are going to gain much more range.
> > Better focus on tire rolling resistance, bearing quality,
> > brake drag, aerodynamics and all those other big energy
> > consumers, before paying attention to the issues below the
> > 0.1% line.
> >
> > YMMV.
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:35 PM
> > To: ev@
> > Subject: Re: LED brakelights
> >
> >
> > The emeter shows a drop of .3 amps when I step on the brake pedal.
With
> > out more accuracy it could be .21 amps at 300v. 60w is close to 3
brake
> > lamp elements IIRC.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@> wrote:
> >
> > > At 09:20 PM 10/5/2006, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > > >At 08:55 PM 10/5/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > >>I'm wanting to replace my 3 brake light bulbs as they pull .3 amps
> > > from
> > > >>the 300v pack thru the dc-dc. That's just a plain waste. Then
there
> > > are
> > > >>the 2 running light elements as well.
> > > >
> > > >Wow, you must have BRIGHT brake lights. 900W of power!
> > > >
> > > >Somehow I don't think your brake lights are pulling 3A out of a
300v
> > > pack.
> > >
> > > Oops, now I see the decimal point.
> > > I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
> > >
> > > --
> > > John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@
> > > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > > http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Here's to the crazy ones.
> > The misfits.
> > The rebels.
> > The troublemakers.
> > The round pegs in the square holes.
> > The ones who see things differently
> > The ones that change the world!!
> >
> > www.RotorDesign.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll look at these guys and see if they have an S10 version that's 90
degrees to it's socket.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> As I mentioned before, the 1156 and 1157 replacements from
www.superbrightleds.com are not highly directional, as individual
LED's may be. These replacements are specifically designed to utilize
the existing reflectors to spread the light, as well as the built-in
lenses on the LED's themselves. Mine look great in use, and are
plainly visible, even standing almost directly to the *side* of the
car. Just use the replacements the same color as the lenses, white
for backup, amber for turn, red for brake/tail.
>
> Although you didn't do this, some claim LED's are unsafe because
they are highly directional. In this case, I found that to be totally
false.
>
> David Brandt
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, October 6, 2006 4:48:46 AM
> Subject: Re: LED brakelights
>
>
> Well they may or may not be like stock.
>
> The stock bulk had an even 360 deg spread. The outer red/yellow lens
> has prisms cut in it so it will redirect the light and glow evenly, and
> sometimes there is a reflector which will not only make use of the
light
> projected in the wrong direction initially but does a nice job of
> spreading it across the lens.
>
> LEDs are more directional, to varying degrees. I'm assuming the guys
> who make drop-in replacements go for the wide beams. While narrow is
> helpful for a flashlight, in this application it may only cause the
> center of the taillight to glow since no light strikes the lens
anywhere
> else. The same problem will occur if the LEDs are placed closer to the
> lens than the original bulb. Even with the wide beam LEDs, it's still
> narrower than a bulb.
>
> IMHO the better solution is to just physically distribute the LEDs
> behind the lens. I'm not going to exaggerate the importance of this
> though, generally the aftermarket LED drop-in is okay.
>
> Danny
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> > But if you only want to save battery energy with minimal effort,
> > such undertaking is not practical - just buy replacement LED lamps and
> > they will look like stock while working better.
> >
> > Victor
>
--- End Message ---
