EV Digest 5975
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: WKtEK in Anchorage...again
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: LED brakelights
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: LED brakelights
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EV Motorcycle on Treehugger w/ video
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: motor alignment question
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: LED brakelights
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: LED brakelights
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: motor alignment question
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: LED brakelights
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: AC and DC together?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: LED brakelights
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: motor alignment question
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: AC and DC together?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Brake lights on regen
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: LED brakelights
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: LED brakelights
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: AC and DC together?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: AC and DC together?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Awesome story Mike! Nice job!
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well the local pizza pub theather sold out a 320 people showing of
WKtEC tonight. I took the Electrabishi and a bunch of
> tri-folds, EV Info sheets from EAA site, business cards about my
conversion, and the "Not Dead Yet" Post cards. I didn't have 320
> of any one item ( but at least 50 of each). The croud loved the
movie, clapping, yelling, drinking beer, eating pizza etc. The
> theater manager blocked off two spaces for me to park right in front
of the entrance. While that was nice of him, they made
> EVeryone leave out the back entrances. No problem, I go out and
just drive the truck around the back and park it right next to
> the sidewalk by the back door. Spent an hour handing all my stuff
and answering as many questions as possible. The guy I bought
> the batteries from was there and helped a little by telling what he
knows about the conversion from my visits to his shop. (by
> the way his boss wants me to build one just like it for their
delivery vehicle). Lots of people and lots of interest. I got the
> whole way through, and when know one else was around and I was about
to pack it up, one guy came by, talked a little, and ruined
> a perfect Q&A session with the "why don't you put wind turbines on
it to charge while you drive" question. No one else was
> around, I told him that would be a good idea and that he should try
it sometime, talked a little more, and left. Many questions
> about if I would build them one and where can they get one. I did
the best I could as I'm not interested in building them for a
> living, but offered to help in their own efforts if they join the
AlaskaEVA :-) The best part was not only did I get the movie
> goers coming out, but the theater/micro-brewery was having the
"first-tap" of the month party. Got a lot of interesting people
> going in after the movie. The best comment by someone who didn't
really stop to look long was, "Hey dude, someone ripped off your
> engine". I told him "naw, I just gave it away" :-)
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now you got me on a mad search again. The last time I tried led lights
for my S10 their polarity was not marked and installing them meant
blowing fuses to find this out. The S10 requires side firing leds in
order to direct the light out the back of the tail light lens. These
guys have the first side facing 3157 wedge base lamps I've seen. Other
brands have a few side firing leds, but most are orientated to face
the end, which would lit up the side of my tail light lens, not the
back of it. The ones from Autolumination look to be 100% side firing.
This is perfect for the sideways mounted bulbs in the 1994 S10
tailights that use a reflector to guide the light towards the rear of
the tail light lens. I've not tried these yet, but if they are not too
tall I think they are a decent shot at an led replacement bulb. I
wrote the owner and will see what they say about the height. I could
also yank the tail light lens and check for clearance.
They are the Light Tower 1 and Light Tower 2 type leds bulbs found here.
http://autolumination.com/3157_3156.htm
Mike
PS This research has also found that there are led bulbs available for
the dash as well. My bulbs in the dash have lasted just a couple
thousand miles before burning out again. So an led replacement might
be the ticket.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EV parts has an inexpensive one. Gotta watch the connections. They are
weak. Had to solder mine back on. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
> I didn't change the topic clearly enough. My vacuum switch for the
> power brake vacuum pump is seized. I need a new one.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Huh, What is the vacuum switch going to do?
> > Your brake pedal already has a brake light switch
> > if that is what you want.
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:27 PM
> > To: Cor van de Water
> > Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the math. Still, if the hardware is available I might as
> > well use it.
> >
> > Where can I get a vacuum switch that can handle 5 amps at 12v?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Normal brake light is 12V 21W
> > > so with DC/DC inefficiencies the 65W can easily
> > > draw more than 80W.
> > >
> > > Just how often are you braking?
> > > I think that when I add all the time in my 20 - 25 min
> > > commute that I am actually sitting on the brake, it
> > > will total around 2 - 3 min (on level road I do not brake
> > > once stopped, on slight upramp I keep the accelerator
> > > a tiny bit depressed to hold the vehicle with an
> > > unmeasurable amount of current from the pack.)
> > > Just as unmeasurable as the brake light consumption:
> > > If you brake for 3 min that will cost you 1/20 (3min/60min)
> > > times the power consumption (=90W) or about 5Wh.
> > > If your vehicle is well aligned and needs 200Wh/mi this
> > > means that the brake lights cost you 1/40 mile range.
> > > I do not think those 120 feet makes a real difference
> > > that is so much of a cencern that you should worry
> > > about them.
> > > If you drive 1 mph less fast or take off 1/2 second slower
> > > then you are going to gain much more range.
> > > Better focus on tire rolling resistance, bearing quality,
> > > brake drag, aerodynamics and all those other big energy
> > > consumers, before paying attention to the issues below the
> > > 0.1% line.
> > >
> > > YMMV.
> > >
> > > Cor van de Water
> > > Systems Architect
> > > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:35 PM
> > > To: ev@
> > > Subject: Re: LED brakelights
> > >
> > >
> > > The emeter shows a drop of .3 amps when I step on the brake pedal.
> With
> > > out more accuracy it could be .21 amps at 300v. 60w is close to 3
> brake
> > > lamp elements IIRC.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > At 09:20 PM 10/5/2006, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > > > >At 08:55 PM 10/5/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > > >>I'm wanting to replace my 3 brake light bulbs as they pull .3 amps
> > > > from
> > > > >>the 300v pack thru the dc-dc. That's just a plain waste. Then
> there
> > > > are
> > > > >>the 2 running light elements as well.
> > > > >
> > > > >Wow, you must have BRIGHT brake lights. 900W of power!
> > > > >
> > > > >Somehow I don't think your brake lights are pulling 3A out of a
> 300v
> > > > pack.
> > > >
> > > > Oops, now I see the decimal point.
> > > > I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@
> > > > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > > > http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here's to the crazy ones.
> > > The misfits.
> > > The rebels.
> > > The troublemakers.
> > > The round pegs in the square holes.
> > > The ones who see things differently
> > > The ones that change the world!!
> > >
> > > www.RotorDesign.com
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I remember seeing that one. It just didn't quite make the 5 amps I
needed. Although I really like microswitches. I suppose adding a
relay would fix it.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> EV parts has an inexpensive one. Gotta watch the connections. They are
> weak. Had to solder mine back on. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:17 AM
> Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
>
>
> > I didn't change the topic clearly enough. My vacuum switch for the
> > power brake vacuum pump is seized. I need a new one.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Huh, What is the vacuum switch going to do?
> > > Your brake pedal already has a brake light switch
> > > if that is what you want.
> > >
> > > Cor van de Water
> > > Systems Architect
> > > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:27 PM
> > > To: Cor van de Water
> > > Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the math. Still, if the hardware is available I might as
> > > well use it.
> > >
> > > Where can I get a vacuum switch that can handle 5 amps at 12v?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Normal brake light is 12V 21W
> > > > so with DC/DC inefficiencies the 65W can easily
> > > > draw more than 80W.
> > > >
> > > > Just how often are you braking?
> > > > I think that when I add all the time in my 20 - 25 min
> > > > commute that I am actually sitting on the brake, it
> > > > will total around 2 - 3 min (on level road I do not brake
> > > > once stopped, on slight upramp I keep the accelerator
> > > > a tiny bit depressed to hold the vehicle with an
> > > > unmeasurable amount of current from the pack.)
> > > > Just as unmeasurable as the brake light consumption:
> > > > If you brake for 3 min that will cost you 1/20 (3min/60min)
> > > > times the power consumption (=90W) or about 5Wh.
> > > > If your vehicle is well aligned and needs 200Wh/mi this
> > > > means that the brake lights cost you 1/40 mile range.
> > > > I do not think those 120 feet makes a real difference
> > > > that is so much of a cencern that you should worry
> > > > about them.
> > > > If you drive 1 mph less fast or take off 1/2 second slower
> > > > then you are going to gain much more range.
> > > > Better focus on tire rolling resistance, bearing quality,
> > > > brake drag, aerodynamics and all those other big energy
> > > > consumers, before paying attention to the issues below the
> > > > 0.1% line.
> > > >
> > > > YMMV.
> > > >
> > > > Cor van de Water
> > > > Systems Architect
> > > > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > > > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > > > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > > > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > > > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > > > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:35 PM
> > > > To: ev@
> > > > Subject: Re: LED brakelights
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The emeter shows a drop of .3 amps when I step on the brake pedal.
> > With
> > > > out more accuracy it could be .21 amps at 300v. 60w is close to 3
> > brake
> > > > lamp elements IIRC.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At 09:20 PM 10/5/2006, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > > > > >At 08:55 PM 10/5/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > > > >>I'm wanting to replace my 3 brake light bulbs as they pull
.3 amps
> > > > > from
> > > > > >>the 300v pack thru the dc-dc. That's just a plain waste. Then
> > there
> > > > > are
> > > > > >>the 2 running light elements as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Wow, you must have BRIGHT brake lights. 900W of power!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Somehow I don't think your brake lights are pulling 3A out of a
> > 300v
> > > > > pack.
> > > > >
> > > > > Oops, now I see the decimal point.
> > > > > I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@
> > > > > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > > > > http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Here's to the crazy ones.
> > > > The misfits.
> > > > The rebels.
> > > > The troublemakers.
> > > > The round pegs in the square holes.
> > > > The ones who see things differently
> > > > The ones that change the world!!
> > > >
> > > > www.RotorDesign.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The brake circuit of a taillight draws a *lot* of current. 90Watts would be
about right. I had 2 1157s in my Laverda 3CL (1000cc 3 cylinder motorbike). The
bike was/is notorious for poor alternator output and weak batteries.
Replacement of the 1157s was part of the key to eliminating the charging
problem. The brake circuit (with the regular lamps lit as well) was over
60Watts.
-Ralph
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 21:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The emeter shows a drop of .3 amps when I step on the brake pedal. With
> out more accuracy it could be .21 amps at 300v. 60w is close to 3 brake
> lamp elements IIRC.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > At 09:20 PM 10/5/2006, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > >At 08:55 PM 10/5/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> > >>I'm wanting to replace my 3 brake light bulbs as they pull .3 amps
> > from
> > >>the 300v pack thru the dc-dc. That's just a plain waste. Then there
> > are
> > >>the 2 running light elements as well.
> > >
> > >Wow, you must have BRIGHT brake lights. 900W of power!
> > >
> > >Somehow I don't think your brake lights are pulling 3A out of a 300v
> > pack.
> >
> > Oops, now I see the decimal point.
> > I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
> >
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> >
> >
>
>
> Here's to the crazy ones.
> The misfits.
> The rebels.
> The troublemakers.
> The round pegs in the square holes.
> The ones who see things differently
> The ones that change the world!!
>
> www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a short little of a Derbi GPR-50 conversion, it includes a
video of the bike as well.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/10/man_create_elec.php
Nice little plug for Thunderstruck-EV.com and ElectricMotorSport.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:52 PM 10/5/2006, you wrote:
I have my motor mount back from the welder and the motor is
temporarily installed. I have a bit more refining to get the
transmission bell housing at the pre-conversion height. I am
concerned that the mount I have fabricated may not align the motor
exactly square to the transmission. Given that I only took the
vertical height measurement I don't know for sure if or how much out
of alignment the motor is.
Am I in for a potential safety hazard, gross inefficiency or possibly both.
I don't know whether your vehicle is front engine/FWD, or front
engine/RWD. If you're using the original transmission mounts, bolt
them in first and then put the motor and motor mount into the vehicle
and secure them. Then look at the original trans mounts and see if
they are distorted or twisted. If so, reposition the motor mount
until the trans mounts return to normal shape. Another good way to
test it is to remove the bolts that hold the trans mounts to the body
and see if the bolt holes still line up, and if not, how much and in
what direction they are off. The hazard exists that over time a
stressed mount might shear.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/6/2006 7:45:27 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The last time I tried LED lights
for my S10 their polarity was not marked and installing them meant
blowing fuses to find this out. The S10 requires side firing leds in
order to direct the light out the back of the tail light lens. These
guys have the first side facing 3157 wedge base lamps I've seen.>>>>
The older air-cooled BMW motorcycles had similar charging/power issues that
folks have tried to solve with LED after-market lamp. There are a few
specific made-for-certain-model tail lamp LED set ups available that are as
or
more bright than the lamp being replaced. Most of the plug-in LED substitute
lamps (regular and 90 degree) are woefully dimmer than the filament lamps
being replaced. That's a safety issue!
I'd probably go with the LED truck marker lamp units and install them on the
rear of my vehicle to replace the standard brake lamps for reduced power
draw. Be careful with those plug in LED replacements!
Matt Parkhouse
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/6/2006 3:24:46 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
IMHO the better solution is to just physically distribute the LEDs
behind the lens. I'm not going to exaggerate the importance of this
though, generally the aftermarket LED drop-in is okay.
That's exactly what the best motorcycle replacement units do. The LEDs are
spread all over a printed circuit board shaped to fit behind the bike's
existing lens. Works VERY well!
Matt Parkhouse
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Friday, October 6, 2006, at 01:51 AM, Jim Husted wrote:
Hey John
You forgot premature shaft and bearing wear 8^ P Although you maybe
excited to get it running, get it right and you'll be happier in the
end, and you won't be asking what it costs for shaft replacement in a
few months.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Thanks Jim,
I really don't mean to sound snide or anything but how exactly do I
know if I have it right?
And Assuming I can figure out where right is, how close do I have to
get: millimeters? 1/4 inch?
inches?
Given the way the motor mates to the adapter plat combination which
mates to the transmission, I suppose all those pieces are in alignment,
but as a unit it may not be in exactly the same allignmentwith the
drive shaft.
That said the back end of the transmission is bolted to its original
transmission mounts. Is that all I need?
John
John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have my motor mount back from the welder and the motor is
temporarily
installed. I have a bit more refining to get the transmission bell
housing at the pre-conversion height. I am concerned that the mount I
have fabricated may not align the motor exactly square to the
transmission. Given that I only took the vertical height measurement I
don't know for sure if or how much out of alignment the motor is.
Am I in for a potential safety hazard, gross inefficiency or possibly
both.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice LED work Victor!
Mike
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you care, look on my site how I did it:
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/lighting.htm
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Telsa only licensed a little technology from ACP for the charging
portion of their hardware. Otherwise the Testla hardware is an
original design, so said JB.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You can buy the AC Propulsion System used in the X1 and Tesla for
> $25K with 150kw motor, controller, regen, and 20KW charger built in
> and it is not heavy so you get more performance in an integrated
> package, The Azure AC 24 motor was what you had in your old car...
>
>
> http://www.acpropulsion.com/Products/AC_150.htm
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2006, at 11:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > All about money? Well maybe it is since I do not want to spend
> > 60,000 on
> > Brusa motors and controllers. Where do you find an AC motor that
> > you can also
> > get a controller for that would equal the power of the below?
> > 30,000 would not
> > be a bad deal for two motors and controllers.
> >
> > I was just so impressed on how easy the TransWarP 11 with the Turbo
> > 400
> > would be to install and a second AC motor for regeneration. Also if
> > the battery
> > power was able to handle it should be fairly fast with both motors.
> > The regen
> > would save doing brake jobs and extend the range.
> >
> > I would be willing to use a single AC motor but is there one that
> > would make
> > a 2600 to 2800 pound vehicle perform?
> >
> > Don
> >
> > In a message dated 10/5/2006 4:53:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> >
> >> Jack Murray wrote:
> >>> But why not just use a big AC motor instead??
> >>> Such as the Azure AC55, a 13.5" 177 ft-lbs
> >>
> >> Certainly; that's the obvious way to do it. It just costs more. I
> >> think
> >> theoldcars was looking for a way to save some money.
> >
> > Do you really think it would cost more to buy one big AC motor,
> > than a
> > smaller AC motor, plus a DC motor, plus some way to couple them
> > together,
> > plus figuring out how to make them work together, plus etc?
> >
> > Seems to me that the Larger AC motor might be cheaper in the long
> > run, and
> > certainly easier...and probably more efficient.
> >
> > --
> > If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of
> > legalistic
> > junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> > whatever I
> > wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that
> > your long
> > legalistic signature is void.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll see if the ones I just found are brighter than the junk I tried
before.
Good point about the motorcycle. My Goldwing does not have a marginal
system, but it would become marginal after I install a pair of driving
lights. I'll look into led's for the bike soon.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/6/2006 7:45:27 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> The last time I tried LED lights
> for my S10 their polarity was not marked and installing them meant
> blowing fuses to find this out. The S10 requires side firing leds in
> order to direct the light out the back of the tail light lens. These
> guys have the first side facing 3157 wedge base lamps I've seen.>>>>
>
> The older air-cooled BMW motorcycles had similar charging/power
issues that
> folks have tried to solve with LED after-market lamp. There are a few
> specific made-for-certain-model tail lamp LED set ups available
that are as or
> more bright than the lamp being replaced. Most of the plug-in LED
substitute
> lamps (regular and 90 degree) are woefully dimmer than the filament
lamps
> being replaced. That's a safety issue!
> I'd probably go with the LED truck marker lamp units and install
them on the
> rear of my vehicle to replace the standard brake lamps for reduced
power
> draw. Be careful with those plug in LED replacements!
> Matt Parkhouse
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
---- Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 07:52 PM 10/5/2006, you wrote:
> >I have my motor mount back from the welder and the motor is
> >temporarily installed. I have a bit more refining to get the
> >transmission bell housing at the pre-conversion height. I am
> >concerned that the mount I have fabricated may not align the motor
> >exactly square to the transmission. Given that I only took the
> >vertical height measurement I don't know for sure if or how much out
> >of alignment the motor is.
> >
> >Am I in for a potential safety hazard, gross inefficiency or possibly both.
>
> I don't know whether your vehicle is front engine/FWD, or front
> engine/RWD. If you're using the original transmission mounts, bolt
> them in first and then put the motor and motor mount into the vehicle
> and secure them. Then look at the original trans mounts and see if
> they are distorted or twisted. If so, reposition the motor mount
> until the trans mounts return to normal shape. Another good way to
> test it is to remove the bolts that hold the trans mounts to the body
> and see if the bolt holes still line up, and if not, how much and in
> what direction they are off. The hazard exists that over time a
> stressed mount might shear.
>
> Mike Brown
Mike,
My truck is 2WD and I am using the original transmission mount.
I basically did what you suggested, however:
1) The stock engine mounts were not directly across from eachother so I added
an extender plat to the driver side.
2) the stock engine mounts have a rubberized componetnt attached to a plate
with 2 holes. I created another plate with a larger area that I bolted to the
stock plate.
I fabricated a cross brace out of tubular steel then attached my motor to
this cross brace and lowered it onto my plate that is bolted to the stock
engine mounts.
For this whole process, the transmission has been bolted to the cross brace
towards the drive shaft end of the transmission consistent with what you
suggest.
With the transmission bolted to the frame, I mated the bell hoursing to the
adapter plate. So at this point the motor cross brace is in the correct place
but it is just sitting on my steel plates connected to the stock engine mount.
I traced the outline of the motor cross brace onto my steel plates, and brought
it to my welder.
My problem is there that cross brace is not welded exactly where my pencil
outline was.
However I can lower the motor/adapter plate assemply onto the stock mounts and
bolt up 3 of the 4 holes and it "looks: to be aligned.
Again the trans is bolted to its original mount on its cross brace, and the
motor/adapted assembles is bolted to the trans and the modified stock
enginmounts. The rubberized engine mounts move quite a bit as I lower the
weight of the motor onto them.
It sounds like I need to unbolt the transmission from its mount and if
everythinlg still lines up I am OK.
Knowing the way things have been going for me on this project, I will bet they
will not align exactly. (I was really close to sending a "components for sale"
message to the list the other night)
Any recommendation on how close is close enough?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.fiberfab.us/default.htmThis kitcar looks incredible and they
claim $5700 price.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Death to All Spammers wrote:
Don, if you are serious, I'd be happy to build you a fast car.
I was considering building a C5 corvette with the AC55 motor, it would
go into the trans tunnel and drives the differential, bats would be in
the engine compartment.
I'm don't see what two motors really does for you, the speed limitation
is the batteries ability to delivery enough power to the motor(s).
A big motor or two won't go any faster if the batteries can't run them.
But the AC55 peaks at 78kw - how fast of a car will that make? That's
half the kw of the smallest Zilla!
Well it looks like the Warp 11 is only rated at (75Kw) 95hp at 144 volts
(according to EV USA) and weighs 229lbs
The 78Kw for AC55 is at 300 volts, most of these type of motors can do
480v so if the AC55 can do that, looks like 128Kw
I suspect the Azure controller can't handle that voltage.
In any case the power has to move the vehicle,
long smokey burnouts may look cool, but don't make you fast.
I don't think Don is going to have big fat wrinkle-wall slicks in his
little street Opel. Actually, I think 4WD is the way to go, almost went
to look at a AWD Talon with bad motor, but I can't build anything else
until I sell my existing racecar.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is how my vacuum is wired:
Vacuum Switch - relay - pump.
When your pump starts running 100% you only need to pull the
relay to stop it. (And _stand_ on the brake pedal)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:52 AM
To: Lawrence Rhodes
Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
I remember seeing that one. It just didn't quite make the 5 amps I
needed. Although I really like microswitches. I suppose adding a
relay would fix it.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> EV parts has an inexpensive one. Gotta watch the connections. They are
> weak. Had to solder mine back on. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:17 AM
> Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
>
>
> > I didn't change the topic clearly enough. My vacuum switch for the
> > power brake vacuum pump is seized. I need a new one.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Huh, What is the vacuum switch going to do?
> > > Your brake pedal already has a brake light switch
> > > if that is what you want.
> > >
> > > Cor van de Water
> > > Systems Architect
> > > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:27 PM
> > > To: Cor van de Water
> > > Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the math. Still, if the hardware is available I might as
> > > well use it.
> > >
> > > Where can I get a vacuum switch that can handle 5 amps at 12v?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Normal brake light is 12V 21W
> > > > so with DC/DC inefficiencies the 65W can easily
> > > > draw more than 80W.
> > > >
> > > > Just how often are you braking?
> > > > I think that when I add all the time in my 20 - 25 min
> > > > commute that I am actually sitting on the brake, it
> > > > will total around 2 - 3 min (on level road I do not brake
> > > > once stopped, on slight upramp I keep the accelerator
> > > > a tiny bit depressed to hold the vehicle with an
> > > > unmeasurable amount of current from the pack.)
> > > > Just as unmeasurable as the brake light consumption:
> > > > If you brake for 3 min that will cost you 1/20 (3min/60min)
> > > > times the power consumption (=90W) or about 5Wh.
> > > > If your vehicle is well aligned and needs 200Wh/mi this
> > > > means that the brake lights cost you 1/40 mile range.
> > > > I do not think those 120 feet makes a real difference
> > > > that is so much of a cencern that you should worry
> > > > about them.
> > > > If you drive 1 mph less fast or take off 1/2 second slower
> > > > then you are going to gain much more range.
> > > > Better focus on tire rolling resistance, bearing quality,
> > > > brake drag, aerodynamics and all those other big energy
> > > > consumers, before paying attention to the issues below the
> > > > 0.1% line.
> > > >
> > > > YMMV.
> > > >
> > > > Cor van de Water
> > > > Systems Architect
> > > > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > > > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > > > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > > > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > > > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > > > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:35 PM
> > > > To: ev@
> > > > Subject: Re: LED brakelights
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The emeter shows a drop of .3 amps when I step on the brake pedal.
> > With
> > > > out more accuracy it could be .21 amps at 300v. 60w is close to 3
> > brake
> > > > lamp elements IIRC.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At 09:20 PM 10/5/2006, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > > > > >At 08:55 PM 10/5/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > > > >>I'm wanting to replace my 3 brake light bulbs as they pull
.3 amps
> > > > > from
> > > > > >>the 300v pack thru the dc-dc. That's just a plain waste. Then
> > there
> > > > > are
> > > > > >>the 2 running light elements as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Wow, you must have BRIGHT brake lights. 900W of power!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Somehow I don't think your brake lights are pulling 3A out of a
> > 300v
> > > > > pack.
> > > > >
> > > > > Oops, now I see the decimal point.
> > > > > I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@
> > > > > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > > > > http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Here's to the crazy ones.
> > > > The misfits.
> > > > The rebels.
> > > > The troublemakers.
> > > > The round pegs in the square holes.
> > > > The ones who see things differently
> > > > The ones that change the world!!
> > > >
> > > > www.RotorDesign.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
How about an "ignition-on" voltage powering a small relay. Thru
this relay runs a wire from the negative side of the shunt thru
an optocoupler to the other side of the shunt. This optocoupler
powers the relay to the brake light.
The extra relay off of ignition keeps the brakes light from coming
on during charging. :-) The optocoupler only lets current go one
way so it only activates during negative amps (regen).
A good idea, though the implementation is weak. The shunt only develops
50mv at full current; too low to turn on the LED in the optocoupler.
But you could do this easily with a SPDT reed switch and bias magnet
taped to a battery wire. Orient the magnet so it holds the reed closed
at zero current, and that positive (discharge) current just aids the
magnet, keeping the reed closed. When the current goes negative
(charging), it counteracts the bias magnet, and the reed drops out.
Use the normally-closed contact of this reed to operate your brake light
relay; this contact is off when the bias magnet or positive current is
keeping the reed switch on, and it turns on when the reed switch is
turned off by negative (charging) current.
If your charging current gets very high, the reed would turn on again;
but this shouldn't happen when regen or charging currents are much less
than the max driving current.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
SuperFlux does not use a heatsink. SuperFlux was designed to use its 4
electrical leads to draw off the heat.
But it uses enough power to need heatsinking of some sort. Whether by
its leads, or the copper foil of the PCB it's mounted on, or a
reflector, or an actual heatsink of some sort. The question was in how
this heatsinking might be provided in a package that fits a normal lamp
socket.
Lamp sockets make no sense for designers since the device will never
need replacing in the product's lifetime.
That's true; but since when does "making sense" have anything to do with
product design? :-)
A genuinely good LED replacement for a standard #1157 tail light would
have a huge market. The ones that exist are hack jobs, that don't work
well and don't fit well.
As a warning, a lot of LED mfgs do misuse LEDs.
That's for sure! Most of these LEDs are only rated at 20ma for that
"100,000 hour life" (which is a marketing exaggeration anyway). Then
they run them at several times rated current. Then they put them in
packages that trap the heat. The resulting life is drastically
shortened. But they depend on the customer not knowing this. Plus, they
make it impossible for the customer to ever return anything for warranty
or replacement. Gotcha, sucka!
--
"There is hardly a product that someone cannot make a little worse and
sell for a little less. Those who put price above all other
considerations are the natural prey of this man." -- John Ruskin
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Oops, now I see the decimal point.
I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
Probably not the lamps alone; the 300v/12v DC/DC converter he's using is
probably very inefficient with a very light load. Plus, leaving the
DC/DC on means the accessory battery is also charging (probably
unnecessarily), which wastes more power.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked at the all wheel drive vehicles. If I remember right the Talon was
around 3800 pounds with the ICE. I will be close to half that weight.
"Well it looks like the Warp 11 is only rated at (75Kw) 95hp at 144 volts
(according to EV USA) and weighs 229lbs"
So What would the Warp 11 be at 300 volts?
Don
In a message dated 10/6/2006 10:08:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Death to All Spammers wrote:
>>Don, if you are serious, I'd be happy to build you a fast car.
>>I was considering building a C5 corvette with the AC55 motor, it would
>>go into the trans tunnel and drives the differential, bats would be in
>>the engine compartment.
>>I'm don't see what two motors really does for you, the speed limitation
>>is the batteries ability to delivery enough power to the motor(s).
>>A big motor or two won't go any faster if the batteries can't run them.
>
>
> But the AC55 peaks at 78kw - how fast of a car will that make? That's
> half the kw of the smallest Zilla!
Well it looks like the Warp 11 is only rated at (75Kw) 95hp at 144 volts
(according to EV USA) and weighs 229lbs
The 78Kw for AC55 is at 300 volts, most of these type of motors can do
480v so if the AC55 can do that, looks like 128Kw
I suspect the Azure controller can't handle that voltage.
In any case the power has to move the vehicle,
long smokey burnouts may look cool, but don't make you fast.
I don't think Don is going to have big fat wrinkle-wall slicks in his
little street Opel. Actually, I think 4WD is the way to go, almost went
to look at a AWD Talon with bad motor, but I can't build anything else
until I sell my existing racecar.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don (and all),
Currently we have 4 Siemens 5135 motors left at ~1,5k off of normal
price, and inverters are also reduced, so you can get 2 systems
for about $2k less (each) than regular price.
Once these are sold, new motors will have to be built one by one
again and the price will have to return to regular. Just thought
to let you know.
Granted, Azure's AC55 is about $5k cheaper than Siemens' (so
you save $10k for both), so AC55 is your best choice if money is
a priority. You have to decide what's best in your case, just make
sure you have enough blowers to cool off the motors if you put them
to real work. Also consider that 120A (continuous!) 12V
DC/DC converter comes with Siemens inverter (60A per inverter)
helping to offset its higher cost. You'd need to buy a separate
DC-DC if you end up using inverters other than Siemens.
Not that you need 120A one, but by itself it is $2.4k.
I'm not trying to convince to buy Siemens systems. I'm saying,
if you were considering them anyway, there is an opportunity now
to save around $4k on two, and it will and as soon as 4 motors are
sold.
I really wish USD/Euro ratio would be better; current great state
of US economy does not help anybody :-(
Victor
Jack Murray wrote:
Don, if you are serious, I'd be happy to build you a fast car.
I was considering building a C5 corvette with the AC55 motor, it would
go into the trans tunnel and drives the differential, bats would be in
the engine compartment.
I'm don't see what two motors really does for you, the speed limitation
is the batteries ability to delivery enough power to the motor(s).
A big motor or two won't go any faster if the batteries can't run them.
Lead acid AGM's (Optima Yellow Tops) can pump the most juice of
available batteries, but they are heavy. The alternative is to ratchet
up the voltage instead using smaller current NiMH or Lithium batteries.
This is how the Tesla goes fast with a single relatively small motor.
I've been working with a smaller PM AC motor (BLDC) similiar to the UGM
but smaller that is going in the jetski. One could stack them to get
some big power, but I would think the AC55 is a better choice than 4-8
of the smaller motors.
Best Regards,
Jack
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello
I had a 97 Solectria Force for a while. I am not sure but is this the
same motor it had? It was a 156 volt system I don't know what bumping
that up to 312 would do but I am looking for a lot more performance
than one single motor. I plan not to have a transmission and that
weight would be the second motor.
I live in an area with a lot of hills. An example of one is 3 Ah up
and I could recover 1 Ah in one half of a mile in the Solectria. The
S-10 NiMH and Ranger trucks I drive do not have enough regeneration
to stop the vehicle. In fact it they gain speed and I have to use the
brakes.
I also want to this EV to drive more like a sports car. Valance
batteries would be an option and I already have NiMH batteries but
that would be about 1100 pounds of batteries. For most my local
driving I don't go over 20 miles so a small size Hawker could be
another option. If I can buy the A123 battery that would be about
what I need.
I don't see a downside to having the two motors and if I don't like
the results I can just spilt them up and use them on some other
projects. From the post on the list it sounds like my biggest road
block would be buying a Zilla Z1K or Z2K.
I would consider the A55 motor if I could link two together. I
noticed they do weigh a lot. I not looking to just blow a mountain of
money but I am willing to spend what it takes to build this.
Don
In a message dated 10/5/2006 1:14:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I didn't think saving money was a priority:
The DC motor and controller would be 10,000 the Siemens system cost
15,000 total cost 25,000
ElectroAuto prices a complete AC55 conversion kit at $10,000
Just the motor is $1,400.
I've considered building a controller for the AC55 motor, and
probably will, but I'll put it on the top of my todo list for $10K. :)
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
Jack Murray wrote:
But why not just use a big AC motor instead??
Such as the Azure AC55, a 13.5" 177 ft-lbs
Certainly; that's the obvious way to do it. It just costs more. I
think theoldcars was looking for a way to save some money.
--- End Message ---
