EV Digest 6003
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Cruise control?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Jiffy lube...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Comparator circuit 1.0 for nicad pack monitoring
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: I have a CitiCar for sale
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) RE: Getting an AC motor inverter built
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) OT fiberglass questions
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: lee's emeter companion?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: OT fiberglass questions
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: OT fiberglass questions
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EVDL breaks old record for number of posts per day!
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Ajustable air shocks, Re: air suspension - Roland, got your ears on?
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) OT--Re: Jiffy lube...
by Matt Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Getting an AC motor inverter built
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Siamese low power setup
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Siamese low power setup
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Cruise control?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: air suspension - Roland, got your ears on?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Cruise control?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Getting an AC motor inverter built
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Twisting cables together
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: lee's emeter companion?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: cost effetive, long range EV's,
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: OT fiberglass questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: Intelect 9 ah D cells.
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In SW this function is trivial,
just keep motor RPM constantly to the set speed.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 7:31 AM
To: Joe Plumer
Subject: Re: Cruise control?
I know an ACP Saturn that has cruise control. Just a pushbutton to
activate it. Then a tiny knob to dial in the speed. It has amazing
accuracy. I've often wondered how it was connected. Seems to me it's
put in place of the pot box. I suspect with ACP it's not that way. But
it's highly useful for measuring terrain losses due to slope. You can
set the car to a speed that will get you to your destination with a
low pack, because the BMS lets you know the remaining ah's and useage
while driving.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Joe Plumer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Has anyone implemented a cruise control? Just curious if it is
possible,
> and how
> people have done it in the past.
>
> Thanks.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to
Windows Live
> Spaces
>
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www
.get.live.com/spaces/features
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well,
that should bring them a few new customers and
install trust in their organisation.
/sarcasm off
Seriously: 5 out of 9 repairs charged were never done?
They should be seeing a storm of lawsuits - in particular
if people had trouble with their car after going to them...
No wonder I like to service my cars myself and if it needs
to go in, I have the urge to stay with it to see the work
being done.
Good that EVs don't need an oil change, or fuel filter
or transmission ..... wait - the tranny may still need
its service.
Oh yes, that you can do yourself.
In fact, today I am going to pick up a Prius transaxle
gasket to replace its transaxle fluid and wipe down the
pan from the deposits of the first 35,000 miles
from the oil-splash lubricated and cooled motors and
torque converter.
(recommended after oil analysis on Prius_technical_stuff)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rush
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Jiffy lube...
Hi all,
This was sent to me by a friend...
http://mfile.akamai.com/12924/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2006/0503/9152183.200k.asx
"The above site will open to a blank screen - just wait for the video to
load. NBC in California got some great shots on Jiffy Lube stores ripping
their customers off big time. I wouldn't drive past a Jiffy Lube let alone
let them work on my car! The information below is customer's complaints
about Jiffy Lube cheating them. Notice they come from all across America."
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
Lee stated that the metal film evaporates,
the ceramic body of the resistor stays where it is
so the resistor does not mechanically disintegrate,
only electrically.
I have seen resistors burst open, but that were the
old carbon resistors, which would generate so much
heat inside their body that they would explode when
shorted across a HV supply.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 10:23 AM
To: Lee Hart
Subject: Re: Comparator circuit 1.0 for nicad pack monitoring
Thanks for that great explanation Lee.
What I envision is each module will have a monitor. But the monitors
will all be on one pcb. So a pair of 24ga teflon insulated wires would
go from each module to a DB connector on the monitor board. Having a
DB connector allows me to remove it from the monitoring board and use
it for plugging in an equalizing board made up of 28 Zregs. Maybe the
EQ board and the monitoring board could be in parallel all of the time.
If the metal film resistor blows open then the wire going to it would
be hanging loose. So does the ring lug that holds the metal film
resistor need to have shrink tubing overlapping the lug and the
resistor to keep a mechanical connection in case of a blown resistor?
Or does the metal film resistor not melt in half as it's failure mode?
Something else. I have a small lcd temerature monitor watching over
the pack temp in one location. It uses a thermistor. Whenever the main
contactors engage, the thermometer display goes from scrambled to 0.0c
to 25c (actual temp). Is there some EMI/EFI that's conducting into the
thermistor wiring? Could this same thing happen with a monitoring system?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > Lee,
> >
> > Some time ago you mentioned using 1/8 or 1/4 watt metal film resistors
> > for fuses at each battery. Does it matter if it's metal film or could
> > it be carbon? Is it more of a size issue that determines the
> > "fuseability" of a resistor?
>
> Carbon composition resistors are good for handling huge overloads
> *without* failing. You do *NOT* want to use them as fuses, because you
> can't predict when they'll finally fail.
>
> Carbon film resistors have a ceramic tube with a layer of carbon
> deposited on it as the resistance element. They will work as fuses, but
> tend to change resistance value drastically as a consequence of
heating.
> Don't use them as fuses if you depend on their resistance value to
> make the circuit work, because a near-fusing even will permantently
> change their resistance.
>
> Metal film resistors make the best fuse resistors. Nothing happens to
> their resistance until the metal hits its melting point; then it tends
> to vaporize almost instantaneously. The resistor is either at its
> correct value, or blown open.
>
> And of course, there are special resistors that have been characterized
> as fuses. They are your best choice if you can find one of the
> appropriate resistance and wattage.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Cor,
I am located in Phoenix Arizona. Thanks, David.
-------------------------------------------------
FastQ Communications
Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod,
At $299 this sounds like an interesting start, not the fact
that it does so much more than the OSMC, but because it has
the nice Graphical Motor interface ;-}
Serious though - this could make a great start for an AC
motor drive, not for DC as the H-bridge outputs are twice
as lossy as the single switch used in DC controllers.
Only when you need electronic reverse is this necessary.
(Robots do not have manual transmission for example)
Hey Rod, what is your experience with this board?
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 7:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Getting an AC motor inverter built
I haven't been following the thread about AC motor control but I have
mentioned
this before and will mention it again. The control bit is not a problem,
just
check out this site:
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&;
dDocName=en010071&part=DM183011
I have one of these boards and it seems to me that the control is all there
ready to go. You just need to upgrade the IGBTs (and maybe drivers) to EV
(say
20KW) power ratings. It can be done.
The big problem is the motor, three phase EV motors aren't that cheap or
easy to
come by.
Anyway, just thought I'd mention it, back to sundays of building my A123
BMS.
Regards, Rod Dilkes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reading a recent post about use of fiberglass for weight savings, it reminded
me of a challenge
I'm facing and I could use some advice. I bought some 1" fiberglass I-beams I'm
using as strutural
elements in my car. For instance, I'm using two to go between the cars frame
rails to support my
controller/ contactor package. They bridge the distance nicely and support the
weight well.
I'd also like to use these as the frame for two door panels I'm making for my
battery pack. THese
doors will lie flat over the battery boxes and act as the floor to the hatch
area in the back of
my car. I'll miter the pieces at the corners. Can I just use some of the epoxy
resin to glue the
I-beams togther in the corners, or is there a better way to connect these
fiberglass members?
To skin the doors I need to have a flat surface to lay the fiberglass on and
then the frame. Jerry
mentioned using formica as a mold surface, but I also need a release agent. I
noticed some of the
release agents are carnuba wax, just like car wax. Even made by companies like
Maguires. Can I
just use car wax on the formica as a release agent? The door panels will be an
inch thick with
fiberglass skins, is there a particular kind of styrofoam or other product I
can use as a light
weight filler in the doors? I'm using regular fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin.
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
You are not addressing the issue.
Without Peukert correction the "fuel gauge"
can read 1/4 full when your batteries are empty,
so you are guaranteeing that a newbie EVer is
going to hurt his pack big time.
This has nothing to do with reading in miles or %
or whatever you want to calibrate your fuel gauge in,
simply the fact that you can take out no more than
15 kWh after you put in 20 kWh (for example) so if
you blindly rely on a fuel gauge counting down the
energy you put in while taking it out to show how
far you would be able to go, you are going to get
stuck at 3/4 the range that you were expecting,
unless you do correct for Peukert and other
inefficiencies.
I know that Peukert is only valid for lead, but
other chemistries are also inefficient, so you
should correct for that as well, only differently.
The fact that this feature is not implemented in
the Brusa tells me that they rather ignored the
problem or received feedback from the wrong people
because when I as a lay person get an indication
gauge and it does not register reliably and may
cause me to run out of fuel while it still
indicates I should have 1/4 capacity left, then I
do not trust that gauge after that any more.
And I already cause a lot of damage (running the
pack too low, possibly reversing cells and in
general I would consider how I could get my damage
back from the people that give me a digitally
accurate indicator and then have it misrepresent
the information so badly.
I would not at all be pleased with a Brusa meter.
Count me out.
Thanks for the warning.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: lee's emeter companion?
Lee Hart wrote:
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Lee Hart wrote:
>>> You really should add it, especially for lead-acid packs. The single
>>> most useful number it can provide is State of Charge. Without the
>>> Peukert correction, simple amphour or watthour data is all but useless.
>
>> Gee, I didn't realize BRUSA Ah counter designers who purposely chose
>> not to implement Peukert correction (they easily could have) are such
>> an idiots who keep producing their useless device...
>
> What is the purpose of the Brusa Ah counter? As an engineering
> instrument so a technologically adept driver can measure what he's
> doing? Or, is it meant as a "gas gauge" for typical ICE drivers?
The purpose of Ah counter (which is also Wh-counter) is to count
amp-hours (or Wh) spent as you drive. No different from the
gas fuel gauge which shows amount of fuel in gallons (at best)
or 1/2, 1/4 etc. at worst and you have to remember how many
gallons your tank is). ICE fuel gauges aren't calibrated
in miles and people has no issue with that. They learn
quickly to associate 1/2 with, say, 200 miles, or rather
with "I can fill up after tomorrow". Wh consumption is no
different. I know, Wh available depends much more on
how you drive EV than gas consumption in ICE, but the
principle stands: if I got 20 kWh pack and my counter shows
I spent 15 kWh obviously my pack is 1/4 full, e.g. 5 kWh left.
*Then* (and the process is no different than for ICE) I know
that with consumption of 5 miles per kWh, I can go about
5*5=25 more miles before drop dead, plain and simple.
If you adjust for Peukert, you:
a) need to know exactly what it is for your battery
b) need to make adjustment to it based on the temp and age
else it throws one more variable in the mix.
I'm not saying it is useless, but value added is very little
after I already know Wh spent.
Not to mention, that if you use non-lead acid battery,
Peukert adjustment becomes absolute useless feature.
BRUSA's decision not to include this adjustment was
based on the feed back from test drivers whether they
see it as a benefit. Most expressed desire to know
how much energy their vehicle spent and how far they
still can go. This has nothing to do with type of the
battery and adjustments for its characteristics; Ah meter
is just an energy consumption meter.
Only if you try to convert it to miles, adjustment
is needed, but as you said about average Joe, he
does not convert "1/2 of tank" to miles left.
So he wouldn't do it for Ah (Wh) consumed either.
I don't miss lack of Peukert adjustment at all
(well, I don't use lead battery, but when I did,
I didn't miss it either).
I guess it's a matter of personal preference.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My father used to make surf boards with fiberglass skin
after shaping the foam.
You can either buy foam blocks or mix and pour it
yourself in the approximate shape you want, then cut it.
My guess is that boat supply shops can give the answer
which foam and where to get and related questions.
They will likely also know about structural connections
between fiberglass elements, as a boat has the same issues.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dave Cover
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: OT fiberglass questions
Reading a recent post about use of fiberglass for weight savings, it
reminded me of a challenge
I'm facing and I could use some advice. I bought some 1" fiberglass I-beams
I'm using as strutural
elements in my car. For instance, I'm using two to go between the cars frame
rails to support my
controller/ contactor package. They bridge the distance nicely and support
the weight well.
I'd also like to use these as the frame for two door panels I'm making for
my battery pack. THese
doors will lie flat over the battery boxes and act as the floor to the hatch
area in the back of
my car. I'll miter the pieces at the corners. Can I just use some of the
epoxy resin to glue the
I-beams togther in the corners, or is there a better way to connect these
fiberglass members?
To skin the doors I need to have a flat surface to lay the fiberglass on and
then the frame. Jerry
mentioned using formica as a mold surface, but I also need a release agent.
I noticed some of the
release agents are carnuba wax, just like car wax. Even made by companies
like Maguires. Can I
just use car wax on the formica as a release agent? The door panels will be
an inch thick with
fiberglass skins, is there a particular kind of styrofoam or other product I
can use as a light
weight filler in the doors? I'm using regular fiberglass cloth and epoxy
resin.
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave, I have a 1" thick large fiberglass faced honeycomb panel with nomex core
you could use. shipping might cost a lot due to the size, though. What size
do you need, and I'll check to see if it's big enough. I think it is about
3.5' X 3.5', but there is a 1" dia. hole right at one corner. skins are 0.02"
thick, overall thickness is 1". Made by nordam. I have some other sizes, too.
they are press cured, so are quite flat.
This wouldn't need a frame. It's plenty stiff and strong.
For joining those beams, gluing them together will get them to stick in place,
but you need to joint the corners together mechanically somehow or the glue
joint will crack when flexed. I'd use some aluminum sheet bent into an "L"
shape and attach it to the webs, leaving the flanges flat for your door. An
angle extrusion would also work. An extrusion would be thicker so the joint
would be a lot stiffer.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 2:25:23 PM
Subject: OT fiberglass questions
Reading a recent post about use of fiberglass for weight savings, it reminded
me of a challenge
I'm facing and I could use some advice. I bought some 1" fiberglass I-beams I'm
using as strutural
elements in my car. For instance, I'm using two to go between the cars frame
rails to support my
controller/ contactor package. They bridge the distance nicely and support the
weight well.
I'd also like to use these as the frame for two door panels I'm making for my
battery pack. THese
doors will lie flat over the battery boxes and act as the floor to the hatch
area in the back of
my car. I'll miter the pieces at the corners. Can I just use some of the epoxy
resin to glue the
I-beams togther in the corners, or is there a better way to connect these
fiberglass members?
To skin the doors I need to have a flat surface to lay the fiberglass on and
then the frame. Jerry
mentioned using formica as a mold surface, but I also need a release agent. I
noticed some of the
release agents are carnuba wax, just like car wax. Even made by companies like
Maguires. Can I
just use car wax on the formica as a release agent? The door panels will be an
inch thick with
fiberglass skins, is there a particular kind of styrofoam or other product I
can use as a light
weight filler in the doors? I'm using regular fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin.
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11 Oct 2006 at 1:46, Nathaniel Olsen wrote:
> Sadist thing is to see the msgs from folks signing off the EVDL,
> `cause of being swamped w/EV msg traffic.
I hope you mean "saddest" because I'd rather not have any more sadists on
this list. ;-)
Actually, neither heavy traffic nor signoffs is anything new. The EV list has
always had relatively heavy traffic. It has always had people who signed up
and shortly thereafter signed off (sometimes posting a plaintive "please
unsubscribe me" message because they hadn't either read or saved the
welcome message telling them how to sign off).
This list is not for every with every EV interest. A lot of folks who sign up
are
looking for info on where to BUY an EV, not on how to build one. They know
nothing about EVs but think they sound like an interesting idea.
Often these folks disappear quickly. Either they decide that EVs are too
much hassle (you have to build your own or at least maintain it yourself), or
that EVs won't work for them for one reason or another. The list has quickly
done its job for them and it's entirely natural for them to vanish.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David and All,
I use Grabriel Hijackers from Auto Zone,
normally used as helper springs, for all my 3 wheels so I'll
be able to lower it for highway speeds, lowering aero drag
and adjusting for variable weight in the rear cargo area and
raiosing for flood waters, a normal thing here in flat,
rainy Fla.
Monroe, VW Buggy supplies, and others sell them
too and they are fairly cheap at about $35 per wheel
including hoses for remote adjustments either from an
onboard compressor or a gas station air supply.
They use the same space as a reg shock.
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EVDLposts <[email protected]>
Subject: air suspension - Roland, got your ears on?
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:43:32 -0700 (PDT)
>I've lowered the fiero back to the ground, and noted the
>differences in ride height, and I've contacted a couple of
>spring vendors for quotes, but I was still wondering about
>using an air system.
>
>I was wondering if Roland could give more details of his
>air suspension system, including the vendor, and whether it
>was a selection from stock products or of it had to be
>custom engineered.
>
>I know these systems allow the adjustment of ride height,
>but I was wondering more about the ride and handling. How
>is that?
>
>Did you add this to a stock El Camino suspension, or are
>you using units that replace the stock springs and shocks?
>
>Also, how much space do the pump and valving take up?
>
>Lastly, how much did it cost?
>
>Also, if anyone else uses an air system, please let us know
>the details.
>
>Thanks!!!
>
>PS I wound up with 19 batteries for 228V. For now at
>least. Need to reassemble the interior and instrumentation
>to be able to move the car, though. Z1K and Warp 9" with
>stock 4 speed.
>
>
>
>David Brandt
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is pretty far off topic, but I have suspected as much each of the
three times I have taken a car to Jiffy Lube. I do all of my own Maint.
Cant trust anyone.
Rush wrote:
Hi all,
This was sent to me by a friend...
http://mfile.akamai.com/12924/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2006/0503/9152183.200k.asx
"The above site will open to a blank screen - just wait for the video to load. NBC
in California got some great shots on Jiffy Lube stores ripping their customers off big
time. I wouldn't drive past a Jiffy Lube let alone let them work on my car! The
information below is customer's complaints about Jiffy Lube cheating them. Notice they
come from all across America."
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These PIC18Fxx31 evaluation boards are available on ebay for about $150.
Surplus IGBT 600amp/1200v go for about $20. Dual trench gate 300amp/1200V for
about the same.
There is whole lot of info from Powerex at
http://www.pwrx.com/igbt.asp?catid=50
Check the application notes. They even have PCB layouts for isolated universal
gate drivers. Others on the list have listed many other great sources of info.
You can probably take the PIC evaluation board, some IGBT and customize the
software to make AC controllers, BLDC controllers, sepex, DC controllers.
It has been 20 years since I brought out the breadboard but I use to be a good
design EE. Anyways, I have already ordered one of these PIC18Fxx31 evaluation
kits, along with some PIC16F877A evaluation kits, a dozen big IGBTs and a dozen
dual IGBT, some big fast diodes, big caps, etc.
The PIC16F877A may work well for a DC controller. JB Staubel (AKA Tesla design
guy) built one for his 944 Porshe so we know it works.
http://www.jstraubel.com/944EV/EVproject.htm
I have a few ideas for getting regen onto a DC motor. It would be nice to have
a 1000 amp higher voltage DC controller with regen.
EZESPORT
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:52:32 AM
Subject: Re: Getting an AC motor inverter built
I haven't been following the thread about AC motor control but I have mentioned
this before and will mention it again. The control bit is not a problem, just
check out this site:
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en010071&part=DM183011
I have one of these boards and it seems to me that the control is all there
ready to go. You just need to upgrade the IGBTs (and maybe drivers) to EV (say
20KW) power ratings. It can be done.
The big problem is the motor, three phase EV motors aren't that cheap or easy to
come by.
Anyway, just thought I'd mention it, back to sundays of building my A123 BMS.
Regards, Rod Dilkes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack is it more cost effective to siamese two 5hp electrics than buy one
motor with the same power.
Can you turn off one of them when cruising for more range.?
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops to john wayland not jack,
John is it more cost effective to siamese two 5hp electrics than buy one
motor with the same power.
Can you turn off one of them when cruising for more range.?
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
In SW this function is trivial,
just keep motor RPM constantly to the set speed.
Could someone address my earlier post on this issue, regarding engine
breaking? In an EV, how would you keep the RPM's constant when you
wanted to slow the vehicle? If you just let up on the throttle as you
do in an ICE, the car will keep coasting for a long while, only
gradually slowing. If you're on a slight downgrade, the car will even
pick up speed. Wouldn't you need regen, or a mechanical equivalent to
slow the motor?
Bill Dennis
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello David,
I am using a air suspension from Air Ride Technologies.
www.tidetech.com Ph: 812-482-2932
I used a unit in the front call ShockWave which replaces the coil spring and
shock. Its bolt right in like a shock would.
There catalog did not show one for a 1977 El Camino, but the tech said one
for a 70-81 Camaro with a 2 inch extension would work.
Had to cut the bottom A-Arm flange on one side. This unit than fit fine.
The battery pack is place just ahead of the center of balance, causing the
rear to be 1 inch lower than the front. Could have use a shorter spring in
the front or a 1 inch lift pads in the rear.
I use a heavy duty spring in rear with Standard Monroe Air Shocks.
The Air Ride systems can lower the front making the car level. Can lower
the rear and front 2 inches for a low rider effect.
I have separate air lines for the back and front. I do not use a on board
air compressor, because I just run out of room to fit anything more into it.
I use a built in air gage on the lines at the fill value point and a Stewart
Warner air gage on the dash. If I pump them up to 100 lbs front and rear,
with 70 psi tire pressure, this makes a stiff ride, but knocks off .5 ah per
mile.
For a softer ride, you can go down to about 60 psi minimum. I normally run
at 80 psi which takes about a month or so to get down to 60 psi.
The air lines are 1/4 o.d. inch plastic, the same commercial type use on
truck air breaks which you can get from Air Ride. I wrap my air lines with
black spiral 1/4 i.d. plastic wire looms to provide extra protection. All
fittings are brass that fits these lines.
You initially put in about 100 psi of air pressure to set all the air
connections which makes it a tighter fit and than you back off to the
pressure you want.
If you jack up one side of the car, leaving the weight on one tire on the
other side, you do not have to remove the air for the Air Shocks. If you
jack up both wheels, than remove the air down to about 60 lbs, so you do not
blow out the bellows which may happen or not. I forgot to do this and so
far it did not happen.
When I took it in for alignment, I just left it at 80 lbs which would be the
average height, and it was ok.
The cost of these Air Ride Systems cost $849.00 back in 2002.
I did not go with the rear systems, because this would require a complete
rebuild and replacement of all suspension components. But you could lower a
car until it scraps the ground.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Brandt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDLposts" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:43 AM
Subject: air suspension - Roland, got your ears on?
> I've lowered the fiero back to the ground, and noted the differences in
> ride height, and I've contacted a couple of spring vendors for quotes, but
> I was still wondering about using an air system.
>
> I was wondering if Roland could give more details of his air suspension
> system, including the vendor, and whether it was a selection from stock
> products or of it had to be custom engineered.
>
> I know these systems allow the adjustment of ride height, but I was
> wondering more about the ride and handling. How is that?
>
> Did you add this to a stock El Camino suspension, or are you using units
> that replace the stock springs and shocks?
>
> Also, how much space do the pump and valving take up?
>
> Lastly, how much did it cost?
>
> Also, if anyone else uses an air system, please let us know the details.
>
> Thanks!!!
>
> PS I wound up with 19 batteries for 228V. For now at least. Need to
> reassemble the interior and instrumentation to be able to move the car,
> though. Z1K and Warp 9" with stock 4 speed.
>
>
>
> David Brandt
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I'm sure Otmar will love me for mentioning this.
The Zilla has provision to support cruise control. Now it actually
working is all a matter of the code being written. That might be awhile :)
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Professional grade electric vehicle parts and resources
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One mans cheap is another mans expensive but I think these are fairly
reasonable and they have hundreds of them. If anyone is interested in multiple
units they will deal on price. They have their phone number listed.
_http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230029345207_
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230029345207)
If anyone wants a good deal on a single one contact me.
Don
In a message dated 10/11/2006 12:16:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The big problem is the motor, three phase EV motors aren't that cheap or
easy to
come by.
Anyway, just thought I'd mention it, back to sundays of building my A123 BMS.
Regards, Rod Dilkes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No problem, you can twist or leave them un twisted. I ran all my battery
power cables untwisted with no problem in metal conduit and separate metal
conduits of different systems in a common wireway or raceway.
We in the electrical installing, always pull in wires un twisted. If you
have to re wired, or add wires than you can pull them out or in. Sometimes
if the conduits are too small, you may break the wire trying to pull it in.
It is recommended that you only fill the conduit to 60 percent.
It is also recommended not to mix different voltages and amperage rating of
wires in the same conduit.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: Twisting cables together
> I'm running some cables through conduit and I have some questions for the
> group. What I'm doing is
> running a pair of 2/0 cables from the battery pack to the controller
> through 1 1/4" conduit. I'll
> be twisting them together in an effort to minimize noise/radio
> interference. So far so good. I'd
> also like to run a pair of #10 wires from my charger through the same
> conduit. Any problem running
> them all in the same conduit? The pair of #10 wires will be twisted
> together, and then I'd like to
> wrap them together with the 2/0 cables so they fit better in the conduit?
> If I laid the pair of
> #10 wires next to the 2/0 cables, they might not pull them all through the
> conduit. That's why I
> was thinking of twisting them all together.
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> The purpose of Ah counter (which is also Wh-counter) is to count
> amp-hours (or Wh) spent as you drive. No different from the
> gas fuel gauge which shows amount of fuel in gallons (at best)
> or 1/2, 1/4 etc. at worst and you have to remember how many
> gallons your tank is). ICE fuel gauges aren't calibrated
> in miles and people has no issue with that. They learn
> quickly to associate 1/2 with, say, 200 miles, or rather
> with "I can fill up after tomorrow". Wh consumption is no
> different.
I think Wh consumption *is* significantly different with respect to a
fuel guage indication. The difference is that the size of your ICE fuel
tank doesn't vary depending on how you drive. Since the size of the
tank is a known constant, the 1/2 or 1/4 markings on the fuel guage are
useful and can be interpreted in terms of miles of range remaining
provided one has some idea of what their fuel consumption is at their
present speed.
In an EV, the size of the tank is always changing (though admittedly
perhaps this is most applicable to PbA packs), such that the EV driver
doesn't know what size his tank is and therefore what 1/2 or 1/4 really
means in terms of range remaining. For instance, if my 'fuel' guage
shows 1/4 capacity remaining, and I am consuming about 100Wh/mi driving
on surface streets at low speed, I might mentally figure that 1/4 my
capacity is X Wh, so I have X/100 miles of range remaining. However, if
I am driving on the highway and consuming 300Wh/mi, and do the same
calculation, I will run out of juice because my remaining range is not
X/300 miles, because at this higher discharge rate my remaining capacity
is something less than X: the size of my tank depends on how I am
driving!
Peukert is only part of this, of course, since the size of my (PbA) tank
also varies with battery temperature, age/condition, etc., but if
incorporating a Peukert correction into the *fuel guage* display can
help to make the size of my tank more nearly constant then the
usefulness of this guage truly does approach that of the ICE fuel guage.
Of course, I agree completely that Peukert or other correction factors
should *not* be applied to the Ah or Wh displays! Note, that the E-Meter
only uses Peukert to correct the fuel guage display; it, like the Brusa,
does *not* apply Peukert correction to the Wh or Ah displays.
As for Peukert only being useful/applicable to PbA, this doesn't mean it
shouldn't be supported by the meter's software, it just means that the
meter must allow the valid range for the Peukert exponent to include the
value 1.0 (which effectively turns off Peukert correction). This is the
best both worlds since it allows the user to enable the feature if they
find it useful and to disable it if they don't or if it isn't applicable
to their pack chemistry.
> If you adjust for Peukert, you:
> a) need to know exactly what it is for your battery
> b) need to make adjustment to it based on the temp and age
> else it throws one more variable in the mix.
(a) is absolutely true. Just like any other parameter that the guage
requires that quantify your battery to it (capacity, capacity tempco,
etc.), the challenge is how the user will figure out what the correct
value is for their particular battery. The bottom line is that while
the guage will work more accurately with values that are 'close' than it
will with none at all. With flooded PbA, it is certainly going to
result in a more useful fuel guage if the Peukert exponent is specifed
as a ballpark guess of 1.2 when the acutal value happens to be somewhere
between 1.15 and 1.25 than to have no Peukert correction at all (1.0).
(b) is probably not a factor in real world use. The variation in the
Peukert factor over temperature, age, and discharge rate is going to be
small relative the the difference in value between, say, a YT and a
flooded GC battery. Given that the best users can probably do is enter
a Peukert value in the general ballpark for their battery type/model
there is probably little practical value trying to account for these
smaller variations. Remember, a fuel guage is not a precision
instrument (I'm sure we've all had the ICE experience of it taking
'forever' for the guage to move off of 'F', and then have it drop like a
rock once it finally does start moving); if it is accurate to better
than +/-10% it is probably more than adequate (even though you and I
might prefer to see +/-1% ;^).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jerry and all,
Take my soon to be done EV that weights 600 lbs
without batteries, over twice that with, yet the battery
pack only costs $800 and will get me between 100 and 150
mile range on a charge and 80mph+ top speed.
Do you have a website showing what you're working on or what you've
done? My 30 second Google search didn't turn up much. I'm really
interested to see pictures and specs.
Best of luck to you.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Professional grade electric vehicle parts and resources
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I frequently use plain old carnuba car wax as a release agent for my
fiberglass work. Cheap and works great in the small mold parts that I am
making. For
larger pieces that have corner seams and bonding points I use an epoxy mixed
well with fiberglass powder (not the cloth chop, but much finer) which I buy
in bulk from a local fiberglass fabrication shop.
Good luck with your project.
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council (DEVC)
1994 Kawasaki Ninja EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody run the numbers on assembling an ev from small nickal metal
hydrides?
As in consumer electronic equipment types? Or is that what you are
doing?
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 8:41 am, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I goofed on the weight & ah of their pack.
But, by referring to capacity of Optima battery, you could get (in
theory)
a 50-cell pack (10s x 5p config) with 12V 45Ah at estimated weight
~10Kg (22
pounds). Given a careful housing design, this pack could be discharged
at
50A continuously, and be recharged at 3.6A per 10-cell sub-group.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:11 AM
Subject: Intelect 9 ah D cells.
3.85809 is the weight of one string( each cell is 175 gram) at 12v
equaling
9ah. Just multiply by the ah you need. It would be in units of
9ah. So
an
Optima sized pack would be around 23 pounds & 54 ah. 60 batteries. 20
batteries or about 8 pounds for a BB 17 ah sized battery that is
18ah for
the d cells. At 5 dollars per cell that is 300 per battery. At 10
dollars
per cell that is 600 dollars or what you'd spend for a used Panasonic
NiMh
from a Rav4. Lawrence Rhodes.....
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
