EV Digest 6023
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: E-volks now offering a series motor
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Prestolite motor mods, pics
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Honda Insight unsave according to Click & Clack the Tappet brothers.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: A123 Group buy?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: New Battery Technology Achieves 100 Miles with Hybrid Electric
Vehicles
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: E-volks now offering a series motor
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Fuel gauge Peukert correction, was: lee's emeter companion?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: E-volks now offering a series motor, and exhaust pipes
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Gliders
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Good batteries exist now, and in use
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Our business
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Gliders
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: web site
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: New Battery Technology Scams through out histroy
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Gliders, an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Good batteries exist now, and in use
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: web site
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV safety
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: EV safety
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Our business
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: E-volks now offering a series motor
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Honda CX 500 Possible Conversion
by "Daniel Eyk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Honda CX 500 Possible Conversion
by ZillaVIlla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Gliders
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Hondas: Good for newbie converters?
by "Steve Kobb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Our business
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Gliders
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
They have sold ev's with the exhaust system still in. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: E-volks now offering a series motor
> Another interesting point is that they show the 6.7" dia motor with a blue
casing at the top photo, but the other 2 pics show a 9" dia motor with a
sticker on the motor mount that looks like 'CanadiaN' in large type and
other words in smaller type on it. Anybody recognize the sticker?
>
> Notice also that there are no hookups at all, so this is an installation
in progress...
>
> Also why did they leave the exhaust system in.
>
> Deceptive to say the least...
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:42 PM
> Subject: RE: E-volks now offering a series motor
>
>
> > Too funny that they write
> > "our kit #2 has no clutch" right next to a picture
> > where their motor is mated to a tranny with the most
> > prominent feature on the top of the tranny (as far as
> > I can determine): The clutch lever and cable....
> >
> > (let me know if I mistook the tranny gear selector
> > for the clutch
> >
> > I would expect that E-volks do not deliver the clutch,
> > as it is usually already in the donor - as long as their
> > motor mating allows for the clutch to stay in place....
> >
> > Another interesting feature is the open exhaust flange
> > sticking out from under the motor.....
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of jmygann
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:12 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: E-volks now offering a series motor
> >
> >
> > http://www.e-volks.com/about2.html
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All
Finally got the Prestolite motor back together today. It was a compound
motor, now a 6-terminal giving access to shunt fields, series fields, armature.
Pics start at:
http://jcmassey.gallery.netspace.net.au/Daihatsu-pics-01?page=4 with the
pics that refer to dirt.
Repairs:
* Strip, clean.
* Skim and undercut commutator.
* re-wrap fields.
* paint body tube.
* new bearings.
Modifications:
* Fields seperated and brought out on individual terminals.
* Fields reinstalled with a piece of nomex paper between windings and pole
shoes and body tube.
* Themocouple added against one of the shunt fields.
* Brush holder mounting ring placed onto an adjuster ring.
* Commutator end housing machined to accept the adjustable brush ring.
* CE housing armature terminals added.
* Brush holder cross-connection bars added, plus flexible cables to terminals.
Results:
Well, I still need to stone the comm, so it's a bit noisy. Powering the
shunt fields gets the behaviour that I'm looking for with the control
strategy that I'm planning.
This motor is planned to go into a motorcycle-style trike, belt driven to
the input of a diff on an IRS assembly.
The idea is to power the shunt field with a PWM control from a little
device that will vary the field strength in proportion to a signal from the
motor speed. Pushing a handlebar button will boost the field for a few
seconds when the RPMs are very low for more torque off the line. 72V system
with a GE EV1 SCR controller that I have being used on the series field and
armature in the normal manner. Reverse the armature for reverse. PWM
control the series field from 50% at zero speed to maybe 20% at full speed
for better speed/torque performance than with a series motor.
Comments?
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unsafe. Too small, etc. All the things you'd think an SUV driver would
say. Just knucklehead stuff. Lots of jokes. Sometimes they repeat the
show on Sunday mornings. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Honda Insight unsave according to Click & Clack the Tappet
brothers.
> What did the Tappet Brothers say about the Insight?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SFEVA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 9:23 AM
> Subject: Honda Insight unsave according to Click & Clack the Tappet
> brothers.
>
>
> > Once again those BOZO's the Tappet Brothers (on Car Talk carried by NPR)
> > have stuck there feet in their mouths again. They really gave some
> > negative
> > comments about the safety of the Honda Insight. I'm not on the Insight
> > list
> > but there should be a large number of complaints from Insight owners & I
> > think John Wayland was involved in an accident in his Insight where he
> > came
> > out the winner to a much larger car.that rear ended him. Please forward
> > this to the Insight list & I think Honda itself should go on the program
> > and
> > rebutt these slanderous comments. Lawrence Rhodes....
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Exactly.
Although soldering skills are not as prevalent as you might think.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > Building a BMS is a piece of cake.
>
> If you mean stuffing pre-fabricated for you PCBs and load
> pre-written software, then sure. If you're patient enough
> you can train monkey to stuff your PCBs...
>
> Victor
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are the URLs to some of their pages:
http://www.alternativeenergystorage.com/about.htm
http://www.alternativeenergystorage.com/salient.htm
They list RTP, NC and Port Orange FL but no street addresses which is
very odd. I live near RTP, NC Would make an interesting Triangle
Electric Auto Association meeting to tour their lab...
Peter
ROBERT GOUDREAU wrote:
Friday, 13 October 2006
*Technology Research Laboratories introduces Battery Technology that
Achieves 100 Miles with Hybrid Electric Vehicles*
Research Triangle Park, NC and Port Orange, Florida -- Technology
Research
Laboratories (TRL) is announcing a new long-life battery technology
that can
make hybrid electric vehicle traveling a reality. The battery's unique
properties of low cost, long life and safety are all characteristics that
are a necessity of a power source for electric vehicles, or any
consumer and
industrial product.
TRL's battery operates on physical chemistry principles different from
those
of conventional batteries. It resembles nothing on the market. The
battery
utilizes materials that are plentiful, inexpensive and far less polluting
than other battery devices. Fabricated almost entirely of carbon and
plastic, the battery has the ability to withstand severe electrical
abuse,
including total discharge or disuse for prolonged time periods.
A very immediate and attractive application is the "plug-in"
hybrid-electric
car. These cars have been around for years but until now, the power
sources
have been very unreliable. The TRL battery provides a means to achieve
hybrid electric vehicles with a range of 75 or more miles per charge.
Tests
from TRL confirm that a typical 4-passenger electric car powered by less
than 1000 pounds of TRL batteries would have a range of between 75 and
100
mile depending upon speed and road conditions.
*History*
From the early 19th century to the present the attempts have continued
toward developing a practical electrically powered road vehicle. The
obstacles have been the same for the past 150 years – a practical
source of
motive power, i.e., economical source of electrical energy. An
electrically
rechargeable battery is the most desirable solution. Despite its
simplicity,
the electric car never became a commercial success because of its limited
range and uncertainty of returning home on a charge.
In order for the hybrid design approach to have a significant impact upon
"fuel consumption", the range of the hybrid operating solely on battery
charge must be in the region of typical driving for a large portion of
motorists. That range is probably in the 100 to 150 miles per day,
including
some margin for unusual amounts of travel. With such performance the
hybrid
car could be driven on battery power most of the time, and the internal
combustion engine used only for extended trips.
Predominant problems preventing or seriously inhibiting the practical
commercialization of the electric car are:
• Battery life
• Battery cost
• Battery weight
TRL now has a solution that has been long coming.
TRL is seeking to place the technology with organizations that have the
necessary manufacturing and marketing capabilities to bring it to
fruition
as useful energy products. The battery also has potential
applications for
stand-alone wind or solar power systems and power station load leveling.
For more detailed information and specifications on the technology,
please
visit
http://www.AlternativeEnergyStorage.com<http://www.alternativeenergystorage.com/>and
http://www.hybridnrg.com .
*About Technology Research Laboratories*
TRL is an independent R&D company with over 35 years of developing unique
energy systems. Their purpose is to properly place new technology so
that it
may be taken to commercialization as products. Prototypes for test and
evaluation are available.
*Media contact:*
Ralph Zito
Technology Research Laboratories, Inc.
Port orange, Florida
Phone: (386) 763-9340
Fax: (386) 763-9341
[EMAIL PROTECTED] This email address is being protected from spam bots, you
need Javascript enabled to view it
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks to me like there trying to give the people what they want , a very low
cost EV. As we see more EV's and EV's shops we well see different levels of
product. My guess is they don't have alot of money to work with . If they
where in the lawn biss we'd see a Zilla and pfc charger . They are doing
what they can afford and cars and parts are on the same leval.... If your
first EV started off the a hi class AC drive , then there's a good chance
your ev's or ev parts will be of the same hi class , and you will deal with
people who want hi end EV's . Do we not need all classes , Hi and low end
stuff "?
Steve Clunn ( somewhere in the middle I think:-) www.grassrootsev.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes
They have sold ev's with the exhaust system still in. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
Another interesting point is that they show the 6.7" dia motor with a
blue
casing at the top photo, but the other 2 pics show a 9" dia motor with a
sticker on the motor mount that looks like 'CanadiaN' in large type and
other words in smaller type on it. Anybody recognize the sticker?
Also why did they leave the exhaust system in.
Deceptive to say the least...
> Too funny that they write
> "our kit #2 has no clutch" right next to a picture
> where their motor is mated to a tranny with the most
> prominent feature on the top of the tranny (as far as
> I can determine): The clutch lever and cable....
>
> I would expect that E-volks do not deliver the clutch,
> as it is usually already in the donor - as long as their
> motor mating allows for the clutch to stay in place....
>
> Another interesting feature is the open exhaust flange
> sticking out from under the motor.....
>
>
> http://www.e-volks.com/about2.html
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
Gotta get my two watts in as to all this " Gas Gage" fadarah, of late. I
lived for YEARS with only a Good quality(Simpson) $60 bux Volt meter, with
no discomfort. This is for you neewbees, here. After driving your car awile
you will notice the variation of voltage, under load, which, in time YOU
will calculate what's left, in your MIND. Pretty soon, as you get to know
your car, you will be able to "predict" what's left, just by the voltage
sag, and the amps draw, Yes, ya need a good Ampmeter, too!But for a long
while I lived without an ampmeter, Hooked it up as a VOLT meter, and
destroyed it!Duh!But the VOLT meter was the way I knew what was left. But no
skinping! Go out and BUY a good one that will actually show you a real
reading.Then you will see a dying battery real fast!
Sorta like a sailboat sailor, sailing to windward, how much you can head
intio the wind, tiller feel, a bit of luff in the sail, "Feel" of the boat,
almost a living thing. Running a steam locomotive, how much throttle-and
cutoff thing, for what you want her to do.Real EV ,homebrew ,driving can and
will be in that sort of catagory. But a drive in a Rav-4 is well thought
out, you just key in, put it in drive and aim it! EVen Grandma could drive
it! Has a cool "gas Gage" Sorta takes the sport out of it, like a Motorboat
or Electric Locomotive handles the above. Not dissing the Rav, but
complimenting it. If EVery American could take a 60 mile drive in a E Rav,
they would beat down Toyota's doors to ORDER one!Or a EV-1 Too.
Hell! I'm preaching to the choir here.Getting OT too. but the "fuel
Gage" thing is different things to different people. Never had one, so I
don't know, but I think in any car ya gunna market to Jan Sixchip and her
hubby Joe, hasta have some forn of "gas gage"But we don't wanna call it
THAT, though." Juice Gage?" or the more mundane; Fuel Gage?
My two bars worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 4:24 AM
Subject: Re: E-volks now offering a series motor! Sounds like fun!
> They have sold ev's with the exhaust system still in. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
> ----- Original Message -----
THAT'S how you can get it "Smog Tested" <g>!LOOK no smog! When I went to
the Test Place with my Rabbit the guy sez" Howthehell an I supposed to TEST
it , NO exhaust pipe??!!"He, howEVer DID give me a real No. in DOT in CT of
a real guy that I could talk to asbout exempting me. He was real nice
fellow, chatted abit about EV's and what mine was and switched my Vin no
listing on their archives so it didn't say " Diseasel" anymore.Home free!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reason no manufacturer will make "gliders" is that it wouldnt have a
complete VIN number,,,,, with out a VIN number it cant be titled or taged
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Facts are hard to argue with.
1. Corrupted politicians exist. Putting themselves first, instead of their
country (which do you think they were elected to do)? Why do you think the
EV1 was crushed? Because special interest groups (oil/auto) got the
government (polluted politicians) to weaken the law which made them be
created in the first place.
2. Some companies are withholding technology that would further independance
from oil (not just USA, everyone would benefit from better batteries), just
because it MIGHT hurt their bottom line (they could license it or produce it
themselves and still make millions, if not billions, from it)
If anyone wants to flame me or disagrees with the above facts, please send
me an email saying so. I'll be happy to add you to my email block list.
Would rather not receive or respond to emails from people who might
distribute false EV information because their political views coincide with
polluted/polluting politicians and with a self-serving oil industry.
But, I'm sure that most of the list are cheering someone who's tired of
being "politically correct" all the time.
Facts are facts. Anyone that wants to argue about them are only wanting to
hide the facts.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: Good batteries exist now, and in use
Please, let's be careful of making partisan political comments. A recent
post in this thread made comments that could be controversial and cause
flames on the list.
Where necessary some discussions can be presented in general, non-
judgemental terms - including those dealing with energy policy. However,
please avoid writing posts which might generate a flaming response from
one
whose political views are opposite yours. Flame wars ruin the signal to
noise ratio.
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod has written us ,saying we should share ideas and how we do things,,why not.
I will let it up to you guys, you ask us a question, we respomd, its easier
this way. It seems that theres just a few companys doing conversions latlely,
I cant explaine that .but were doing OK and keep pushing them out as fast as we
can make them. I can convert one in about 10 days to 2 weeks, it takes that
long because I have to wait for controllers that long. If I had all the parts
in front of me, I probly get one out in a week. Even logicteck in Texas cant
supply any controllers,at an "off the shelf" I talked to them,,they want a dead
one to rebuild. A reason I have a few Boeing engineers looking at the idea. I
built a bunch of conversions for people at Boeing in Wichits Ks.
As for my experance,,I did my first conversion ,at the first oil embargo
in the 70s. it was fast & dirty, but it worked. no frills no bells & whistles,
6 volt & 12 volt packed together. who cared?? not me,, it ran down the street,
and thats all I was looking for.
it didnt even have brakes. I just reversed the motor, useing everything from
a 5,000 lb Clark fork lift.
One of the reasons we sell so many conversions is ,,My sparkling and
charming personality, the other reason,,were the cheapest in the industery 10K$
out the door batterys and charger included,with a doner car,or I find one for
you and bill you(,I keep the title till its payed)..So, ask away....Wayne
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My EV that was manufacture back in 1976 has two VIN numbers. The bare body
came from Canada minus every thing except for the glass and some interial
panels.
It came with a VIN number by the manufacturer who built the body. When the
electrical systems and mechanical was install, then a second VIN number was
place on the door frame that also have a statement that says that this
vehicle conforms to federal motor vehicle safety standards, except for crash
test.
This label list a Fed reference number and a new VIN number, date of
manufacture, weight of vehicle and tire pressure.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon G Alexander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: Gliders
> The reason no manufacturer will make "gliders" is that it wouldnt have a
> complete VIN number,,,,, with out a VIN number it cant be titled or taged
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sharon G Alexander wrote:
I came to this site to get new ideas not fool around discussing trivia.
Relax, Sharon. Sometimes constructive criticism comes in err,
"constructive" ways. :-)
I think you will find the EV Discussion List to be a rich mine of ideas.
But like any mine, there is still a lot of waste rock to dig through to
find the gold. The successful miner learns to hit that "delete" key
quickly and frequently, and concentrate on the good stuff.
so far we have done 21 conversions, starting 22, any one else out
there doing that?
This really is great news! It's been said, "Some people dream about
doing great things. Others get out of bed and *do* them! You're one of
the doers!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jukka Järvinen wrote:
Lee, You are so right in here. EV's are for companies with death wish. :)
I wouldn't be quite this negative. There are certainly many companies
that build EVs and EV components that have a long-lived and prosperous
business. But they build golf carts, fork lifts, or EV parts and
accessories that can sell in much wider markets.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
Going into the ancient history of EV's ; Am erican Motors, remember
them? We at Electric Fuel Propulsion of Detroit, the Bob Aronson daze of
yore, we had a deal going with AMC to get Hornet, and Gremlin gliders, for
conversion. I felt that Bob missed a good oportunity to get SOMETHING into
production. Sitting down with AMC engineer types, we disscussed setting up a
Gremlin with HD springs, shocks and brakes ready to carry a backbreaking
load of Tri Polar batteries. THEY were willing to do the engineering work to
set us up with a glider actually BUILT to be an EV!I mean loaded with a
hidiously heavy load of batteries. After all we stuffed 2000 lbs of Tri
Polars in a Poor little Renault R -10!!! A real tribute to the guyz in
France that designed the car!! That it didn't collapse from fright, and
metal fatigue, at those axle loadings!Ha! Remember the THREE lug nut pattern
on the wheels!?
In my Con Rail daze of training , 100 ton cars loaded to 130-140
tons, only time anything was amis , was when the train couldn't get up the
hills, CT has PLENTY!,on rainy nights!The CARS didn't care, it was a
traction issue with the lokies!What's a few hundred tons among friends,
anyhow?
Back to the story; AMC was willing to approve of our EV conversions, I
thought that waas a real good thing back in those daze! 'm SURE Renault
would have had something to day as to the Mars 2 conversions? Can ya say "No
Way" in French?We sold them to power co's and anybody else with deep
pockets back in the 60's. A FIVE grand Renault just wasn't a door buster
price!When V-Dubs were about 1500 bux! UsOld Farts remember!But AMC is
gone an' forgotten, too. Sigh!
My two Gremlins worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Facts" are debatable, the rules of this list are not.
The rules prohibit politics because the debate wastes bandwidth.
If your ego prohibits you from following the rules, then go ahead and
block me, I've already blocked you.
> Facts are hard to argue with.
>
> 1. Corrupted politicians exist. Putting themselves first, instead of their
> country (which do you think they were elected to do)? Why do you think the
> EV1 was crushed? Because special interest groups (oil/auto) got the
> government (polluted politicians) to weaken the law which made them be
> created in the first place.
>
> 2. Some companies are withholding technology that would further
> independance
> from oil (not just USA, everyone would benefit from better batteries),
> just
> because it MIGHT hurt their bottom line (they could license it or produce
> it
> themselves and still make millions, if not billions, from it)
>
> If anyone wants to flame me or disagrees with the above facts, please send
> me an email saying so. I'll be happy to add you to my email block list.
> Would rather not receive or respond to emails from people who might
> distribute false EV information because their political views coincide
> with
> polluted/polluting politicians and with a self-serving oil industry.
>
> But, I'm sure that most of the list are cheering someone who's tired of
> being "politically correct" all the time.
>
> Facts are facts. Anyone that wants to argue about them are only wanting to
> hide the facts.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 2:03 AM
> Subject: Re: Good batteries exist now, and in use
>
>
>> Please, let's be careful of making partisan political comments. A
>> recent
>> post in this thread made comments that could be controversial and cause
>> flames on the list.
>>
>> Where necessary some discussions can be presented in general, non-
>> judgemental terms - including those dealing with energy policy.
>> However,
>> please avoid writing posts which might generate a flaming response from
>> one
>> whose political views are opposite yours. Flame wars ruin the signal to
>> noise ratio.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EV List Assistant Administrator
>>
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
>> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---
In Lee's defense I will also add that there is a "club" (you know the type)
here in Connecticut by that name.
Wayne wrote:
> Lee Hart said we have a sexual web site
John wrote:
> He didn't actually say that, I believe he said that the
> name Electric Blue had some unsavory sexual connotations.
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--- Begin Message ---
Michael Perry wrote:
They pull a lot of "dangerous" materials out of a car for crash testing,
and install weights for the same weight... For instance, they wouldn't
want gas suddenly spilling on the floor.
Is this how the safety problems of the Ford Pinto and Chevy S-10 pickups
avoided detection during crash testing? They were tested without
gasoline, and passed. It was later discovered that they spilled gasoline
and burned in real accidents.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Here is a summary of crash tests performed on vehicles. Note that in the
US, some tests do not actually have to be performed if there is adequate
proof that the vehicle will pass the test via computer modeling. In Canada,
all crash test have to be physically performed. SAE J305 is specific to
electric vehicles.
S201 Occupant Protection
Head impacts the instrument panel
S 201 (3) Head impact area
SAE J921b - instrument panel laboratory impact test - head area
SAE J211 - instrumentation for impact tests
24 km/h at front
S201 Occupant Protection
Head impacts the seat
S 201 (4) Seatback impact
SAE J346 Impact test procedure - head area
24 km/h at front
S201 Occupant Protection
Door latch impact test
S 201 (5) Door Latch test
SAE J839 Passenger Car Side door latch Systems
48 km/h perpendicular at door
S202 Head Restraints
The head restraints on the seat is tested.
S202 Head Restraints
Accel forward till seat fails or withstands load of 890N
S203 Driver Impact Protection
Body block impacts the steering wheel
S203 Driver Impact Protection
SAE J944 Steering Control System - Passenger Car
24 km/h forward
S204 Steering Column Rearward Displacement
Steering wheel displaces into body
S204 Steering Column Rearward Displacement
48 km/h perpendicular
S205 Glazing Materials
Glass fracture test
S205 Glazing Material
ANSI Z26 Safety Standard
S206 Door Locks and Door Retention
Test door latches S206 & TSD 206
. 2500 & 1000 lbs longitudal and transverse loads on latches
. 30g inertia load on latch
S206 Door Locks and Door Retention
Test door hinges
S206 & TSD 206
2500 lb load on hinges
S207 Anchorages of Seats Test the seat anchors
TM 207
. 20 times seat weight back and forth
. 20g acceleration load
S208 Occupant Retraints in frontal collision
Test seat belts
48km/h front crash
S209 Seat Belt Assemblies
Breaking strength, abrasion resistance
TM 209 None
S210 Seat Belt Anchorages
Stress anchorages with static load
J383 None
S212 Windshield Mounting Test
that most 75% of windshield is retained.
48km/h front crash
S214 Side Door Strength Test side door strength
TM214 Smuck the door with a cylinder
S215 Bumpers
Bump the car at low speed, doors, lights, motor still work. No
leaks.
8 km/h impact test
S216 Roof Intrusion Protection
Roof Strength
Drop a flat plate 1.5 x weight of car on the roof at an angle (NA
for convertibles)
S219 Windshield Zone Intrusion
Windshield strength when a head bashes out the window.
48km/h front impact, head hits window.
S304 Flammability Test car to see if interior material burns.
Ignite the soft stuff on fire
S305 Electrolyte Spillage
Test if battery crap leaks.
Test if battery voltage enters cabin or chassis.
48km/h front crash
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: October 15, 2006 9:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV safety
Michael Perry wrote:
> They pull a lot of "dangerous" materials out of a car for crash
> testing, and install weights for the same weight... For instance, they
> wouldn't want gas suddenly spilling on the floor.
Is this how the safety problems of the Ford Pinto and Chevy S-10 pickups
avoided detection during crash testing? They were tested without gasoline,
and passed. It was later discovered that they spilled gasoline and burned in
real accidents.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Wayne -
What components do you typically use? ( motor, controller, batteries ( type
and number), charger, DC-DC converter (do usually use one?).
It sounds like you use rebuilt and/or upgraded Curtis controllers from
Logictech. Can you tell us which ones you use and your general experience
with Logictech?
And, what kind of instrumentation, if any, do you usually install? (
e-meter, ammeter, voltemeter, etc)
Last - maybe you posted the links and I missed them, but, do you have any
pictures of your conversions?
Thanks
Phil
From: Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Our business
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 08:21:58 -0700 (PDT)
Rod has written us ,saying we should share ideas and how we do things,,why
not.
I will let it up to you guys, you ask us a question, we respomd, its
easier this way. It seems that theres just a few companys doing
conversions latlely, I cant explaine that .but were doing OK and keep
pushing them out as fast as we can make them. I can convert one in about 10
days to 2 weeks, it takes that long because I have to wait for controllers
that long. If I had all the parts in front of me, I probly get one out in a
week. Even logicteck in Texas cant supply any controllers,at an "off the
shelf" I talked to them,,they want a dead one to rebuild. A reason I have a
few Boeing engineers looking at the idea. I built a bunch of conversions
for people at Boeing in Wichits Ks.
As for my experance,,I did my first conversion ,at the first oil
embargo in the 70s. it was fast & dirty, but it worked. no frills no bells
& whistles, 6 volt & 12 volt packed together. who cared?? not me,, it ran
down the street, and thats all I was looking for.
it didnt even have brakes. I just reversed the motor, useing everything
from a 5,000 lb Clark fork lift.
One of the reasons we sell so many conversions is ,,My sparkling and
charming personality, the other reason,,were the cheapest in the industery
10K$ out the door batterys and charger included,with a doner car,or I find
one for you and bill you(,I keep the title till its payed)..So, ask
away....Wayne
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Searchsay hello!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
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Easier for them I guess, takes less time to prep the vw for conversion. Much
less professional though.
Do they leave in the fuel tank?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 1:24 AM
Subject: Re: E-volks now offering a series motor
> They have sold ev's with the exhaust system still in. Lawrence Rhodes.....
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I have a chance to pickup a Honda CX500 that could be put back on the
road as is or I have thought for some time about converting one to
electric in either it's original form or as a three wheeler like a
Vortex or Trimagnum. For those who have done these motorcycle
conversions, what are your thoughts about this bike in either form?
Also, could the transmission be used with the electric motor? It is an
early crosswise mounted motor with shaft drive. The price is right to
either put back on the road as is or consider for a conversion as a
friend said he would give it to me. He just recently upgraded to a
KZ1000 and is willing to give up the Honda. Thanks for your thoughts
and comments.
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I like the 3 wheeled conversions with 2 wheels in front. you can still
register it as a motorbike, and you can put a canopy over your head so
driving on rainy days isn't such a downer. plus it's much lighter than
converting some 3000lb car which means less money on
batteries/motor/controller. I gues it depends on what kind of fabrication
tools you have at your disposal.
On 10/15/06, Daniel Eyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have a chance to pickup a Honda CX500 that could be put back on the
road as is or I have thought for some time about converting one to
electric in either it's original form or as a three wheeler like a
Vortex or Trimagnum. For those who have done these motorcycle
conversions, what are your thoughts about this bike in either form?
Also, could the transmission be used with the electric motor? It is an
early crosswise mounted motor with shaft drive. The price is right to
either put back on the road as is or consider for a conversion as a
friend said he would give it to me. He just recently upgraded to a
KZ1000 and is willing to give up the Honda. Thanks for your thoughts
and comments.
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GM sold the Geo Metro and S-10 to Solectria as Gliders. There are hundreds
of them all over the US still.
Don
In a message dated 10/15/2006 7:57:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The reason no manufacturer will make "gliders" is that it wouldnt have a
complete VIN number,,,,, with out a VIN number it cant be titled or taged
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I've studied Bob Bath's website, as well as Mike Chancey's. As you probably
know, both focus on the conversion of Hondas.
Here are some questions for The List:
Are Hondas good donor cars for first-time EV converters? Aside from the
reverse-rotation issue, is there anything else about Hondas that make them
unusually difficult for newbies?
(By "newbie", I mean not only someone who's working on his first conversion,
but also someone who does not have professional-level auto maintenance skills.)
If I wanted to do a small Asian car, would I be better advised to work on a
Toyota, Kia, Hyundai, etc.? Or is it impossible to discuss suitability at the
make-level?; i.e., do we have to talk about specific models that may or may not
be appropriate?
Let me know.
Steve Kobb
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I just posted three new entries to the EV Album showing 3 of Wayne's
conversions, #17,20, and 21. They can be found at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/905
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/904
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/903
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Webmaster
EV Photo Album
http://evalbum.com
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Sharon G Alexander wrote:
The reason no manufacturer will make "gliders" is that it wouldnt have a
complete VIN number,,,,, with out a VIN number it cant be titled or taged
VIN numbers are not going to be the issue. Two ways it could be handled:
Glider ships with no VIN, and converter takes full responsibility for
crash testing completed vehicle.
Or it can be done as it is done for RVs or Roland's experience. The
vehicle is assigned two VINs, or it keeps the chassis VIN. Yes, the
Chassis VIN will have some fields for engine data that will not be
correct, but that is only a minor issue. The important issue for
titling is that the VIN indicate the gross weight (by identifying the
model) and that the VIN is unique. Insurers like to use the additional
data enclosed in the VIN like engine size for adjusting the rates, but
they will just have to deal.
Interestingly, the practice of using some numbers of the VIN to
indicated place of manufacture, engine size and trim have caused
manufacturers to use up VINs faster than the SAE originally planned.
There is talk that the American manufacturers will run out of VINs
within the next 5-10 model years. Currently the SAE is steal VIN
prefixes originally planned for manufacturers in other countries and
reassigning them to the American manufacturers. Even this will only
delay the issue, there is also talk of adding additional characters to
the VINs (bad, since lots of computers systems have the length
hardcoded) or recycling VINs assigned to very old vehicles.
Mark
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