EV Digest 6027
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Honda CX 500 Possible Conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Web Freedom ? WKtEC Piracy ? Bootleging ?
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Small request
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: parallel connections Question
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Prestolite motor mods, pics
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Small request
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Fuel gauge Peukert correction, was: lee's emeter companion?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: A123 & nanopollution
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Electrovair Corrections
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) GE ev-1 controller
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV safety
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Small request
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Theoretical question re: series vs. parallel motors
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Solar cells
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Charging idea, probably already thought of...
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello Chuck,
>
> In mixing H2S04 with H20 (add acid to water - not water to acid)
cause a
> heat reaction, making the SG reading about 1.300 at the time. After
cool
> down, it will read about 1.275.
>
Wonder why this thread is coming through as a comment on BitTorrent!
Anyways, all this talk of adding acid and taking s.g. measurements
makes me glad I have an SLA pack!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First point: converting a motorcycle as your first project is a good choice
from a simplicity perspective (e.g. no heat, power steering/brakes and air
conditioning issues to deal with). In addition most EV motorcycles are direct
drive so the transmission and clutch/adapter issues are not an issue.
Second point: most EV motorcycles use a chain final drive because it is
cheap, fairly efficient and the front sprockets for electric motors are widely
available from the industrial market.
Third: Less obvious perhaps is that an EV motorcycle lacks a great deal of
space for batteries. Mounting the electric motor on the swing arm (aka Etek
type) or transversely in the back of the engine cradle leaves a good amount of
room for the batteries. Your shaft drive project is doable, but may intrude on
the space for batteries.
Look at the EVAlbum under search -->type--> motorcycles to see more. See Rev
Gadget's BMW (Google him up) which uses shaft drive to see some of the
issues that you may need to deal with (lot's of good pictures on his site).
And be
sure to check out the _www.electricmotorcycles.net_
(http://www.electricmotorcycles.net) for EV motorcycle conversion info.
Good luck with your project and keep those questions coming!
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council (DEVC)
1994 Kawasaki Ninja EV
_http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/type/MTCY_
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/type/MTCY)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On second reflection...( the morning after...)
Last night I got word of this...
I think some one, perhaps Chris Paine, or SONY, or Chelsea, that there
is a site ( Autoblog ) Kind of like YouTube, or Google Video ( I guess)
http://wagons.autoblog.com/2006/10/15/now-showing-on-autoblog-who-killed-the-electric-car/
Any way... A whole complete copy of "Who Killed the Electric Car" is
there for any one to see. ???
Folks have voiced opinions that this would HURT the movie and the cause,
perhaps that it is UP on the WEB with out permission for FREE viewing.
Im not sure of that, for if a few ten thousand more folks see the movie
which have not yet, now that is OUT of theaters... good or bad...
SONY International and the Producers may take action...
News of this came to me through Google News Alert for: Electric Vehicles
.. one of three News Feeds I subscribe to through Google..
Any way... I am not going to sit and watch it. Seen it 4 times on the
BIG SCREEN, and have my own DVD coming from Amazon.com in a few weeks.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While cool that we can see it, it appears to be an illegal up load. Same sort
of thing the music industry has been fighting. It was not released by Sony or
Chris Paine. Truth911.com is not a valid URL. I don't know about anyone else
but I still plan on purchasing this from a Legal outlet to have a copy for my
self. In fact I have already pre-ordered it from Amazon. Not purchasing a legal
copy prevents future investment in similar venue. If we the EV enthuist want to
get the real message across, we can not support illegal copies of copywrited
material that was not freely broadcast by the producers. It would be like
taking Otmars Zilla apart and copying it and selling it for $500.00 less. Or
Rich Rudman PFC. Rich and Otmar support the list by making EV products. If say
Toyota grabbed up Rich's PFC charge to build plug in Hybrid for example but
paid Rich nothing for the design. How would we feel as a community. So lets not
download unless you plan on buying it yourself anyway.
Soapbox off
Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks to .... Truth911.com (and Google Video) The whole movie can now
be seen in good quality) It seems to have been uploaded.
http://wagons.autoblog.com/2006/10/15/now-showing-on-autoblog-who-killed-the-electric-car/
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What was the thread? I am all curious.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Trefry
Sent: October 16, 2006 7:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Small request
I know that many of you have been doing this for a very long time, and so
much of this is second nature to you.
But some of us aren't as schooled in the electronics, or even the concept of
an EV as you.
My request is that when an idea or question is presented that immediately
sets off your BS detectors or that you may be tempted to immediately
dismiss, can you please explain why. Can you give even the simplest
explanation of why something may be unrealistic or unworkable so that we
newbies and those of use with lofty goals can understand why we are being
dismissed or ridiculed?
I think it's a fair request, and many of you live up to that. But without
naming any names, some on the list such as Death to All Spammers (oops, it
slipped) really leave a bad feeling in this regard.
Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just for reference, I call a group of 9 cells in my pack a module.
Mike
--- David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 16 Oct 2006 at 7:49, Phil Marino wrote:
>
> > So, each pair of paralleled batteries is called a "module"?
>
> No, a module is another name for what most people call a battery.
> It's the
> smallest replaceable element in the battery, or what most people call
> the
> "pack." Clear? ;-)
>
> > That's the same
> > as what people mean by "buddy pair", right?
>
> "Buddy pairs" are usually paralleled modules (batteries). The pairs
> are
> then connected in series. But it's essentially similar.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
>
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey James
Sorry it took me so long to reply. I throw a big Halloween Haunted house
every year and this year I'm working with the local high school theatre group
for a whole new cast of minion 8^ ) I'll be in "freak mode" the next few weeks.
Anyway getting to the pics...
I see you went with the over / under brush leads I'm glad that worked out for
you 8^ )
I did notice that on the one bend area you have a hole that is in a bad area.
I would have filled it with silver solder to strengthen it up. Kind of
cutting down it's ability to carry current being it's lost a little mass in
that area, maybe half!. Just a little observation I had, hope you don't mind
the input 8^ P
I've painted a few yellow motors now and I like it, although you'll find they
show the dirt a little easier.
Can't wait to hear how she works for you, so keep us posted 8^ ) Nice to see
another Presolite motor being saved from the scrap yard! Anyway it looks
pretty good (other than the hole thingy)
Hey, you ought to throw up a pic of yourself (and crew?) so those here can
put a face with the name. Keep up the good work.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
BTW: I was wondering how long you think it took you to complete the
upgrades??
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
G'day All
Finally got the Prestolite motor back together today. It was a compound
motor, now a 6-terminal giving access to shunt fields, series fields, armature.
Pics start at:
http://jcmassey.gallery.netspace.net.au/Daihatsu-pics-01?page=4 with the
pics that refer to dirt.
Repairs:
* Strip, clean.
* Skim and undercut commutator.
* re-wrap fields.
* paint body tube.
* new bearings.
Modifications:
* Fields seperated and brought out on individual terminals.
* Fields reinstalled with a piece of nomex paper between windings and pole
shoes and body tube.
* Themocouple added against one of the shunt fields.
* Brush holder mounting ring placed onto an adjuster ring.
* Commutator end housing machined to accept the adjustable brush ring.
* CE housing armature terminals added.
* Brush holder cross-connection bars added, plus flexible cables to terminals.
Results:
Well, I still need to stone the comm, so it's a bit noisy. Powering the
shunt fields gets the behaviour that I'm looking for with the control
strategy that I'm planning.
This motor is planned to go into a motorcycle-style trike, belt driven to
the input of a diff on an IRS assembly.
The idea is to power the shunt field with a PWM control from a little
device that will vary the field strength in proportion to a signal from the
motor speed. Pushing a handlebar button will boost the field for a few
seconds when the RPMs are very low for more torque off the line. 72V system
with a GE EV1 SCR controller that I have being used on the series field and
armature in the normal manner. Reverse the armature for reverse. PWM
control the series field from 50% at zero speed to maybe 20% at full speed
for better speed/torque performance than with a series motor.
Comments?
Regards
[Technik] James
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I clean these things up regularly, so I can't point you to the particular
threads regarding myself, but this recent comment on a thread titled "Are we
missing the boat on charging infr.?" alludes to my thread about my planned
914 conversion and my hope of reaching 100mi range. I really don't want to
dredge up that conversation again. My only point is that some of us are
coming into this list without the extensive knowledge that many of you might
take for granted.
So please, rather than simply dismissing ideas as ludicrous or asinine,
explain why they won't work. Help us. Or don't, if you want to keep this
list exclusive to the "old-timers".
Death to All Spammers wrote:
You're right, other non-BS ideas I *have* been positive about, but ones that
waste money and distract people from a real solution I am quite negative
about. I prefer being realistic and putting ideas to immediate use, not:
converting 30-year-old sportscars with 100mi range on a currently-available
pack that is less than $20K and won't need replacement in more than 5 years;
high-current NiMH pack from D-cells that shouldn't be paralleled anyway;
making an EV-sized motor that doesn't create any back EMF; and half a dozen
other disillusioned ideas that have come and gone by listees in recent
years.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 10:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Small request
What was the thread? I am all curious.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I must admit i find it on emule few weeks ago BUT here no way to just go out
and buy it... i'm other the pond.
This said it's for my eyes only and i will purchase it (advertise it to
friends also) as soon as it's available here !
this is the most important: supporting Chris great work with massive
purchase of this superbe film !
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Weisenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
> While cool that we can see it, it appears to be an illegal up load. Same
sort of thing the music industry has been fighting. It was not released by
Sony or Chris Paine. Truth911.com is not a valid URL. I don't know about
anyone else but I still plan on purchasing this from a Legal outlet to have
a copy for my self. In fact I have already pre-ordered it from Amazon. Not
purchasing a legal copy prevents future investment in similar venue. If we
the EV enthuist want to get the real message across, we can not support
illegal copies of copywrited material that was not freely broadcast by the
producers. It would be like taking Otmars Zilla apart and copying it and
selling it for $500.00 less. Or Rich Rudman PFC. Rich and Otmar support the
list by making EV products. If say Toyota grabbed up Rich's PFC charge to
build plug in Hybrid for example but paid Rich nothing for the design. How
would we feel as a community. So lets not download unless you plan on buying
it yourself anyway.
>
> Soapbox off
>
> Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks to .... Truth911.com (and Google Video) The whole movie can now
> be seen in good quality) It seems to have been uploaded.
>
>
http://wagons.autoblog.com/2006/10/15/now-showing-on-autoblog-who-killed-the-electric-car/
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
Peukert's is based on how much current
you need in the future, not the rates you've used in the past.
Unfortunately EVs don't use anything near fixed discharge rates. Since
the meter cannot read your mind (yet), Peukert's predictions will always
be unreliable.
Danny
Danny, I'm trying to make this point, but general consensus this
unreliable prediction is better (and more comforting) than nothing
for practical purposes. So, while I agree with you, it's better
let used to decide how much he'd like to trust the prediction, so
my job is just to make it available. I'm not the one who's going to be
stuck on a freeway because blindly trust the number on it :-)
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Death to All Spammers wrote:
Anyways, all this talk of adding acid and taking s.g. measurements
makes me glad I have an SLA pack!
Or sometimes not so glad, because when things go wrong with AGMs, you
can't fix them.
If you overcharge floodeds, you can replace the lost water and they keep
on working. If you overcharge AGMs, you've ruined them (unless you're
ambitious enough to hack your way in and add water anyway).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found it on Bittorrent as well.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
I must admit i find it on emule few weeks ago BUT here no way to just go
out
and buy it... i'm other the pond.
This said it's for my eyes only and i will purchase it (advertise it to
friends also) as soon as it's available here !
this is the most important: supporting Chris great work with massive
purchase of this superbe film !
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Weisenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
While cool that we can see it, it appears to be an illegal up load. Same
sort of thing the music industry has been fighting. It was not released by
Sony or Chris Paine. Truth911.com is not a valid URL. I don't know about
anyone else but I still plan on purchasing this from a Legal outlet to
have
a copy for my self. In fact I have already pre-ordered it from Amazon. Not
purchasing a legal copy prevents future investment in similar venue. If we
the EV enthuist want to get the real message across, we can not support
illegal copies of copywrited material that was not freely broadcast by the
producers. It would be like taking Otmars Zilla apart and copying it and
selling it for $500.00 less. Or Rich Rudman PFC. Rich and Otmar support
the
list by making EV products. If say Toyota grabbed up Rich's PFC charge to
build plug in Hybrid for example but paid Rich nothing for the design. How
would we feel as a community. So lets not download unless you plan on
buying
it yourself anyway.
Soapbox off
Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks to .... Truth911.com (and Google Video) The whole movie can now
be seen in good quality) It seems to have been uploaded.
http://wagons.autoblog.com/2006/10/15/now-showing-on-autoblog-who-killed-the-electric-car/
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Lee
Adding water to an AGM? I have wondered about that myself. The problems I
thought of was you would not know how much water to add. Also getting it back
to
the correct pressure and sealed again would be a bit of work but it could be
done. Since the acid is held in the matting the amount of water one should
add wouldn't that be a problem?
The only good thing about this is not having to worry about destroying the
battery since they are scrap metal. I came to the conclusion it was just too
much work and most likely not be worth the efforts.
Don
In a message dated 10/16/2006 10:56:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Death to All Spammers wrote:
> Anyways, all this talk of adding acid and taking s.g. measurements
> makes me glad I have an SLA pack!
Or sometimes not so glad, because when things go wrong with AGMs, you
can't fix them.
If you overcharge floodeds, you can replace the lost water and they keep
on working. If you overcharge AGMs, you've ruined them (unless you're
ambitious enough to hack your way in and add water anyway).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My understanding of the A123 'nano' is that the particles are not nano
sized, it's just that the surface of the crystals have nano sized
crenulations. I.e., the surface is very rough on the nano-scale,
hugely increasing the surface area.
There should be no nano-dust from making, disposing of the A123 product.
-Mike
On 10/16/06, Osmo S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"Nanopollution is a generic name for all waste generated by
nanodevices or during the nanomaterials manufacturing process. This
kind of waste may be very dangerous because its size. It can float in
air the and might easily penetrate animal and plant cells causing
unknown effects. Most human made nanoparticles do not appear in
nature so living organism may not have appropriate means to deal with
this kind of waste. It is probably one great challenge to
nanotechnology: How to deal with its nanopollutants and nanowaste."
What´s your opinion about this. Should we take it into account when
considering A123s and other nanotechnology batteries?
I suppose there just isn´t enough information available about this
issue yet. I sent a question to the A123 manufacturer, but no reply
(although I think they don´t answer mails sent by individuals anyway).
Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just ordered my advanced sales copy on http://www.amazon.com -- nobody can
get it anywhere yet (officially, anyways).
So are the crushed electric cars what made it PG? It's not like there was
gasoline life-blood oozing out of a crushed ICE or anything.
----- Original Message ----
From: Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 11:41:03 AM
Subject: Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
I must admit i find it on emule few weeks ago BUT here no way to just go out
and buy it... i'm other the pond.
This said it's for my eyes only and i will purchase it (advertise it to
friends also) as soon as it's available here !
this is the most important: supporting Chris great work with massive
purchase of this superbe film !
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
the SCR controller could not be distressingly noisy unless it was
also making much less efficient use of its batteries
Not exactly, though they are related.
Controllers usually don't make any sound themselves. But the output
current ripple from the controller gets turned into acoustic noise by
the motor.
Air cooled motors are inherently better "speakers". They have lots of
openings for the sound to get out. Liquid cooled motors are usually
better sealed, and so trap the noise inside.
I suspect the Electrovair and EV1 were both relatively quiet, because
they used liquid cooling.
One weakness of the SCR inverter was that it had trouble
starting the motor smoothly from a dead stop.
Funny you should say that, as I *am* running an SCR controller in
my EV, and haven't noticed this effect at all. The only related
problem I've noticed is that the throttle seems to go from 0 to 2-3
instead of smoothly up from 0 to 1 (on a scale of 1-10, 10 being
full throttle)
That is probably the same effect. You also see this problem with the
Curtis 1221B when driving a large 9" motor.
The root cause is the same. The controller's design sets a minimum
on-time. With a high pack voltage and/or low inductance motor, a single
"on" pulse lets the current rise from 0 to several hundred amps. This
produces a high peak pulse of torque. The car wants to leap ahead.
But what if you only wanted to barely creep forward? The only way the
controller can do this is by having a very long "off" time, so the
average motor current is low despite the high peak.
Some of the old SCR controllers made the off-time so long that the
frequency was very low in the audio range. Sometimes so low that you
could hear them "growl" or even go "putt-putt-putt" a few times per
second, as if the car was being pushed by little hammer taps rather than
smooth torque. You had to depend on the mass of the motor, flywheel, and
car itself to make these torque pulsations acceptable.
The Curtis 1221B had the additional problem that it set a switching
frequency of 15 KHz, *and* had a relatively long minimum on-time. A
single pulse could bring the motor from 0 to 100 amps, and it only had
time to ramp back down by 50 amps before the next pulse. So the next
pulse goes from 50 to 150 amps; the next from 100-200 amps, then 150-250
amps etc. The result was a *very* high starting current, and a sudden
"lurch" ahead when trying to start a big 9" motor with a high voltage pack.
even this put a great EV grin on my face as I eased my EV out of the
garage for the first time... Not thinking, I used first gear and when
I eased gently onto the throttle I came out with both front tires
squealing and a nice matching set of black strips christening the
garage floor ;^).
Yep!
BTW, the Electrovair solved this problem the old fashioned way; they
included 3 big starting resistors. These were connected in series with
the motor phase windings when you first touched the accelerator pedal to
get from 0-1 mph. When you stepped down a bit more, the resistors were
bypassed for best efficiency. If you stepped down on it too hard from a
dead stop, you got that (satisfying?) "chirp" as the motor tried to
instantly accellerate at full torque.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Adding water to an AGM? I have wondered about that myself. The problems
I thought of was you would not know how much water to add.
The best plan is to measure the weight of each battery when it is new.
Write the weight on the battery. Then if you ever suspect it needs
water, weigh it again. If low, it's lost water! Only add the amount
needed to bring it back to the original weight.
Not enough water (lost from venting) causes the electrolyte to be too
strong; specific gravities over 1.300 will attack the plates themselves,
causing grid corrosion and destruction of the battery.
Excess water will cause raise the internal resistance, and increase
subsequent gassing and venting.
I've run into three situations where I found it worthwhile to add water
to an AGM or gel cell.
1. The battery has been dropped or suffered some kind of physical
damage.
2. Something went wrong with the charger and it severely overcharged
(with severe gassing and overheating).
3. A poor charger was used that chronically overcharged on every cycle.
I typically see this with gel cells being left on float forever.
In each case, you have to pry/drill/cut open the battery, add the water,
and then reseal it. It's usually more trouble than it's worth; but does
indeed work sometimes, if you catch it before too much damage was done.
Also getting it back to the correct pressure and sealed again would be
a bit of work but it could be done.
The "correct" pressure is just atmospheric. The case isn't pressurized
or evacuated. The case will pressurize itself at the end of a charge
cycle, so you have to seal it; you can't just leave it "vented" to the
atmosphere or the internal pressure never rises, and you will have a
very low recombination rate and so higher water loss in the future.
The only good thing about this is not having to worry about destroying
the battery since they are scrap metal.
Yes. You can't hurt it if it's already "dead".
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How many amps does the GE ev-1 deliver to the motor on a 96 volt system?
Are they close to a curtis controller in speed and acceleration?
Thanks,
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Truth911.net see the text at Google video, currently #23 in
the top 100, but the "Video is currently not available"
while last night it showed fine...
Looks like Sony or Chris already took action...
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bruce Weisenberger
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 9:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
While cool that we can see it, it appears to be an illegal up load. Same
sort of thing the music industry has been fighting. It was not released by
Sony or Chris Paine. Truth911.com is not a valid URL. I don't know about
anyone else but I still plan on purchasing this from a Legal outlet to have
a copy for my self. In fact I have already pre-ordered it from Amazon. Not
purchasing a legal copy prevents future investment in similar venue. If we
the EV enthuist want to get the real message across, we can not support
illegal copies of copywrited material that was not freely broadcast by the
producers. It would be like taking Otmars Zilla apart and copying it and
selling it for $500.00 less. Or Rich Rudman PFC. Rich and Otmar support the
list by making EV products. If say Toyota grabbed up Rich's PFC charge to
build plug in Hybrid for example but paid Rich nothing for the design. How
would we feel as a community. So lets not download unless you plan on buying
it yourself anyway.
Soapbox off
Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks to .... Truth911.com (and Google Video) The whole movie can now
be seen in good quality) It seems to have been uploaded.
http://wagons.autoblog.com/2006/10/15/now-showing-on-autoblog-who-killed-the
-electric-car/
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Is this how the safety problems of the Ford Pinto and Chevy S-10 pickups
> avoided detection during crash testing? They were tested without
> gasoline, and passed. It was later discovered that they spilled gasoline
> and burned in real accidents.
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
I suppose that's possible. I don't know as if they look for ruptured fuel
tanks. From what I'm reading, it's mostly internal damage they are looking
for... how much the passengers bounce around.
...and the crash tests are at 35MPH. Other than giving a car a bad rating,
do they have any power to *not* certify a vehicle?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michael,
That last paragraph was not really necessary to get an answer.
"When it sounds too good to be true, it usually is." is a
tried method of detecting BS.
When claims are presented without detailed description of
how it has been achieved, what materials/amounts, and so on
or clearly outside the range of achievable in real life.
Sometimes it is not that obvious or we know it's market hype,
like a claim of 150 miles and 80 MPH, where everyone knows
that what is meant is 150 miles OR 80 MPH, as the car usually
will not go its max range at max speed.
Whenever there is a claim of a "revolutionary new battery that
finally makes EV (or PHEV) possible" I sigh a little, because
I know that someone is creating a market hype and refers to
products that people know, instead of focusing on the technology
of their product (battery).
So, if you see an announcement about battery specifications
(power density, energy density, nr of cycles, and so on)
then people are talking about their own product and their
claims can be judged with the info they provide.
Alas, often claims are not made to introduce a new product for
production or market availability, but only to get a new
round of VC funding. That is when you often see outrageous
claims, product availability many years in the future and the
large risk that all is just going to stay vaporware forever.
Some on this list have seen the same claims and technology
being presented year after year and even after 10, 15, 20 years
not pan out into a product.
That is when you start to learn the difference between real and
BS, though it can be a fine line between a true revolutionary
new technology and a well-presented bubble of hot air.
Hope this gives some background.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Michael Trefry
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 7:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Small request
I know that many of you have been doing this for a very long time, and so
much of this is second nature to you.
But some of us aren't as schooled in the electronics, or even the concept of
an EV as you.
My request is that when an idea or question is presented that immediately
sets off your BS detectors or that you may be tempted to immediately
dismiss, can you please explain why. Can you give even the simplest
explanation of why something may be unrealistic or unworkable so that we
newbies and those of use with lofty goals can understand why we are being
dismissed or ridiculed?
I think it's a fair request, and many of you live up to that. But without
naming any names, some on the list such as Death to All Spammers (oops, it
slipped) really leave a bad feeling in this regard.
Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Tropica's speed is limited by the RPM of the motor. The drive train
ratio was a compromise between acceleration and top speed.
Keep in mind it was built for Florida, read flat, terrain. I've had
mine up to 70 by accident a couple of times. The RPM limiter kicks in
at 68 if you hang out there for more than a few seconds.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 3:44 PM
Subject: Theoretical question re: series vs. parallel motors
Okay, so I've got a Tropica I'm putting together, with 2 ADC 6.7"
motors, one
driving each rear wheel. I've sent the controller off to Logisystems
for an
upgrade to 144 volts and a bucket o'amps. Now I'm mulling over the
series vs.
parallel options. The Tropica is designed to run on 72 volts - one of
the
designs had dual 72 volt 400 amp controllers, one per motor - and the
gearing
will take it to around 60 mph at 72 volts, I'm told.
So here's my question: the controller should push out sufficient volts
and amps
to run either series or parallel at speeds up to 60. In parallel, I'll
be
dividing the amps by 2, while pushing full voltage into each motor. In
series,
it'll be 1/2 the volts but all the amps for each ADC. If I assume that
most of
my driving will be at speeds which wil draw between 40 and 72 volts,
which mode
is better at those speeds?
I can think of a variety of potential power-sharing issues, but I doubt
that
they have a significant effect in the real world, unless I'm starting
up with
one wheel on snow or ice or something. If that isn't really a
significant
factor, it seems to me that it boils down to this: Is it easier on the
controller to be running at, say, 200 amps and a 40% duty cycle, or
100 amps
and a 80% duty cycle? Or do I have it all wrong? I realize that to go
over 60
I'll need to be in parallel, to get the volts, but below that??? (I am
intalling a series/parallel set of switches, so I can experiment, but
I'm
looking for a theory to test, at least.)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Company unveils new solar cells with 22% efficiency, about 50% more than
conventional. Sweet!
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061016/sfm089.html?.v=66
Still, that's only a bit under 18 W per sq foot, so it's not going to
recharge an EV very effectively from solar cells mounted on the roof,
hood, and trunk unless you have a remarkably low power consumption.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got one O' them chargers...
Think $0.50 per watt of power.
So.. a 75Kw charger.. is $37,500 in rough numbers.
So how many do you want??
Bit chargers can be made.. the questions is who is going to buy them and
install them, and maintain them? This level is pretty impressive... if all
you have now is only 5Kw.
Chargers of this size.. are needed for really fast charging..yes I have done
a 12 minute charge cycle on A123s. Yes they get warm...But that's about it.
The 1400 lbs of gear to do this is kind of over kill unless your customer's
buisness modle requires really fast charging.
So the questions comes down to..Do you need that speed? yes if you have a
fleet of rigs that can benifit from it. No.. if over night charging is
acceptable.
Keep in mind the coming 100Kwhr pack. Getting that filled in 8 hours will
take 12.5 Kw charger all night. And that's about as big as you can get on
your home.
The Tesla's 70 amp "infrastructure" is going to be a pain for most home
owners. 70 amps is not a standard residential outlet.
I can see stuffing a 70 amp pin and socket set on a EV and PFC50 charger..
and then we all will have the "Tesla" standard. Who's going to be the
first??
The "Tesla" Level EV are going to want even larger fast charge ports. It's a
matter of time before somebody asks for More and faster!
Don't worry I will be there waiting.
After charging PiPrius Kit #1 yesterday on 120 VAC and 10 amps... Again,
Madman's paitience is sadly lacking when waiting for things to charge up...
Yes Wenatchee Valley College is adding a 50 amp 14-50 to the outside of the
Automotive shop.. For Plug in Hybrids, and other higher powered EV.
More on the Chellan County PUD's AVI initiative Plug in Prius, On another
post.
It runs.. Got the barked knucles and the Sleep Depravation to prove it.
Ran 4 miles on the first pass, then charged and headed home for some sleep.
We barley taxed the Inersys XE30s, Got 4 miles without any errors.
Even Plug in Kits want more charger and less charge time.
Everyone wants more..
My job here has just begun!!
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: Charging idea, probably already thought of...
> Na, I don't think it will work.
>
> There are already batteries that can be charged in 1 minute(Toshiba new
> Li-ion), 3-5 minutes(A123 li-ion), 10 minutes Lead?
>
> It's infrastructure and the amount of power needed that's the problem.
Some
> THICK cables...and a big whopping charger.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 11:33 PM
> Subject: Charging idea, probably already thought of...
>
>
> > Say you have a vehicle with 20 6volt, 20AH batteries.
> >
> > How much room/money would it take to put in supercaps in the car to
charge
> > those batteries (alla trickle-charge)
> >
> > Charging stations and your house(which have larger supercaps for big
gulp
> > charging onboard supercaps) could charge those caps in a few minutes,
you
> > can drive off using the regular batteries while the onboard caps
recharged
> > them.
> >
> > You'd end up getting rid of one of the biggest hurdles selling the cars
to
> > people. Their question of "How long does it take to recharge?" could be
> > answered "10 minutes."
> >
> > Feasible?
> >
>
--- End Message ---
