EV Digest 6061
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: dc-dc working
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) List up?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Not Receiving Emails
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Not getting posts
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: DVD-Who Killed the Electric Car?
by "Chelsea Sexton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
by "Chelsea Sexton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Cruise Control
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: After Market Electric power steering box
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) no more individual emails?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Yahoo subscribers not getting list e-mails.
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: ELECTRO-SOLAR HYBRID
by "Christie Cooksey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Not recieving posts
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: ELECTRO-SOLAR HYBRID
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Reattaching Magnets on PM Motors
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) clutch release bearing
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Battery Chargers
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Battery Chargers
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Next week on Hot and Cold
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Reattaching Magnets on PM Motors
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Motor Theory Animations
by John Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Possible Motors
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) article: Vectrix Electric Scooter Launching in November
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Freedom EV Update, Sunrise news
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit'
again (please)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Battery Chargers
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: clutch release bearing
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again
(please)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again
(please)
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit'
again (please)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again
(please)
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) RE: open controller designs?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: dc-dc working
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Not getting any evdl posts
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I tried this just last week; it caused so much noise(I presume) in the
battery loop my e-meter freaked out and was reporting 80amps of usage
instead what should have been 1amp. I put the caps back in...
--- John Grigg
David wrote:
"Since the supply is being used on pure DC, could the filters be safely
removed or disconnected?"
On 24 Oct 2006 at 10:09, Lee Hart wrote:
> The Iota is an AC-input supply, so it has huge input filter
capacitors.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why haven't I received anything from EVDL today? Trouble on your end or mine?
Thanks.
Jeff Major
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I also have Yahoo and have attempted to resuscribe to the list since the last
email I received was
Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
from: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
on: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:03:24 PM
still no emails. I have added the evlist to my contact list in an attempt to
whitelist it to no effect. I even completely disabled the spam in my mailbox
and still don't get any emails. I have not yet yeard back from yahoos contact
us.
Only way I am keeping up is on the ev-list-archive on yahoo groups.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I also haven't gotten any posts since Sunday - I'm reading the list off the
yahoo board. My e-mail's with yahoo - is it just yahoo which isn't sending
the posts through?
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
We've now got the info up on our site:
http://www.pluginamerica.com/wktec.shtml for both the WKtEC dvd as well as
Sherry's book, "Plug-In Hybrids, the Cars that Will Recharge America." We've
created package options as well as individual copies of each. For those that
want 10 or more of either, we have bulk price options available as well.
We're relatively competitive with the other sites, and you'll enable even
more EV wave-making!
chelsea
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: DVD-Who Killed the Electric Car? Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006
15:45:14 -0700
Hi Chelsea,
I just checked the Plug In America website
but did not find the DVD in the webstore yet.
Any idea of a date it will be offered?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Chelsea Sexton
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: DVD-Who Killed the Electric Car?
Hey all,
It does indeed look like Plug In America will be offering the upcoming "Who
Killed the Electric Car?" DVD!!! We are currently putting together pricing
information, a variety of packages (which will likely include as an option
Sherry Boschert's upcoming and greatly anticipated book, "Plug In Hybrids,
the Cars That Will Recharge America"), etc. Information will be on our
website soon, but I wanted to give all of you a heads up in case you are so
inclined to place orders with PIA instead of other retailers.
Many people have expressed interest in bulk orders. If you are interested,
please send me an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or reply privately to me
and let me know roughly how many you want so we can get an idea of total
quantity we need and get a bulk price for you.
Thank you!
chelsea
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We can thank a particularly descriptive comment from Dan Neil for that
rating... Just one word changed the film's rating.
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:36:53 -0400
On 16 Oct 2006 at 10:56, David Dymaxion wrote:
> So are the crushed electric cars what made it PG?
According to the listing at Video Universe, the rating is for "brief mild
language," which strikes me as an odd reason to assign a PG rating. Heck,
I use mild language almost all the time, in fact I'm generally pretty mild-
mannered, and nobody's yet rated >me< PG. At least not to my knowledge.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I designed a CCCC Constant Current Cruise Control for Lawson Huntley in the
mid 90's using a MC68HC05K1 processor. It was actually a binary 4 bit sequence
of resistors in place of the pot box, not a true feedback loop control, more of
a throttle lock with an increment/decrement button on the shift knob. It's
purpose was to maintain a constant current for battery longevity regardless of
hills which proved to impractical for daily driving. I think he renamed in
"MicroThrust"
Cheers,
Mark
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 23:39:17 -0400 From: "Mike Sandman" <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Cruise control?
Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
Joe Plumer wrote: > Has anyone implemented a cruise control? Just curious if
it is > possible, and how > people have done it in the past. i would be
interested in this too. i mostly do town driving 5-15 miles but i still use
my cruise a lot on my ICE, a honda element. i just set it at 35 mph around
town and let the crazies drive around me. i also notice that i get better
mileage that way. the computer holds the pedal steadier than me :)
anyone?
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Column Mounted Electric Power Steering:
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=356/prd356.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello
I stopped receiving evdl emails sunday night.
I signed onto yahoo groups, and it's only giving me
the digest option.
anyone else in this situation?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That was also the last one I got. Seems lkely that it's a list-yahoo issue
rather than our personal accounts.
I also have Yahoo and have attempted to resuscribe to the list since the last
email I received was Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
from: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
on: Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:03:24 PM
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 2:33 AM
Subject: ELECTRO-SOLAR HYBRID
> http://tinyurl.com/yczzrk
------------------------------
Cool!
But I like my idea better: Normal electric car that gets charged from a
solar array on the garage roof!
Cheers
Christie :0)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, haven't used Yahoo in a while but there should be some privacy/security
settings you can try. See if there's a place to add the list's email as a
trusted email and to not bounce it?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lautenschlager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Not recieving posts
They are not in my spam folder. Also, I tried sending a query to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and got not response. I think I only got your
reply because you CC'd me. Someone here suggested that my yahoo may have
bounce a couple of emails and that the list server may have drooped me from
the list. How would I reset this?
Dave
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark McCurdy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:35:14 PM
Subject: Re: Not recieving posts
You have a Yahoo email account, it may be blocking them thinking they are
spam. See if you have any emails in your spam folder.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lautenschlager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:10 PM
Subject: Not recieving posts
I have not received any posts from the list in almost two days. Is it
broken?
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, but it has batteries and can plug in as well.
How many hours a day does a car just sit there, soaking up the sun,
compared to hours spent driving?
Notice the aero shape (well, minimal frontal area) and skinny wheels.
Like solar racers, this car would use far less power to drive along than
your typical converted ICE.
It's a good idea. It's a concept car. Imagine if you could build a car
that was entirely self sufficient for fuel. It would look something like
this car.
(Not saying that it is practical, or even that it works, just that it's
a good idea.)
Mark
> From: Bill Dennis
>
> 3.6 square meters at 21% efficiency equals about 1HP max. coming from
> the solar panels..
>
> Bill Dennis.
>
>
> jmygann wrote:
> > http://tinyurl.com/yczzrk
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
JB-Weld is the stuff I was told to use by an employee of GE Motors
division.....FWIW.
Now, you may notice that there are different formulations of JB-Weld,
Marine-Weld is one that comes to mind....well...because I needed some.
Did some research, got the answer from JB-Weld themselves; all that stuff is
exactly the same, just comes in different packages and different names for
different markets.
I was simply amazed by this stuff once when I repaired a broken roto-tiller
handle with it. Got two seasons out of it. About the only thing I could
imagine being a tougher test would be a jack-hammer.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
GE I-5
Blossvale, NY
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Roden
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:16 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Reattaching Magnets on PM Motors
>
> Never tried it, but I've heard of success with JB Weld. It can even hold
> broken magnets together. Clean case and magnet thoroughly with solvent
> before applying the stuff.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to
> unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to
> digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = =
=
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will
not reach me.
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage
> http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
http://www.evsource.com - Professional EV components and resources
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--- Begin Message ---
All,
Having followed the advice of the list, I got a performance clutch disk
and pressure plate. However, the clutch supplier (clutchnet.com) does
not appear to sell release bearing assemblies or release bearings.
I went to my local NAPA auto parts store and they special ordered an
assembly for me. As my brother and I were checking it out this weekend,
we noticed it doesn't look quite like the one that came off the truck.
The shape of the bearing was different, the recess on the inside of the
assembly that gets packed with grease was only 1/3 the size of the
original, and the bearing did not spin smoothly at all.
I have returned the part because I did not have a good feeling about
it. (I think I would have preferred to put the old one back in rather
than the one I returned.
Not being a car guy I ask,
Is the release bearing supposed to spin smoothly?
Is the size of the assembly recess that gets packed with grease
important?
If I end up installing a lower quality part, what is the downside?
Does SKF make a good product? (their number N3051 is the one I
returned, but I wouldn't know quality release bearing if it bit me)
John
On a positive note I am one step closer to a working EV.
We were able to assembly the motor adapter such that the flywheel is
the appropriate distance from the transmission bell housing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
Whatever you get, make sure that the charge algorithms are correct for the
type of battery.
so, once my Zivan NG3 (120v) charger arrives, how do i know if the
"algorithm" is correct? is this thing programmable? testable? by me?
btw, i will be using floodies--per the kit specifications either US
8V-GC or Trojan T-875 batteries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> how do i know if the "algorithm" is correct? is this thing programmable?
testable? by me?
I have a couple of radio shack data logging meters. I just hooked them up
to monitor voltage and current (through a shunt), recorded it on the
computer, then plotted the results. That being said, when you purchase your
Zivan you can specify the charge algorithm. From what I understand it is
programmable but has to go back to Zivan USA to reprogram it (although I
think some have hacked into it).
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Sandman
Sent: October 24, 2006 4:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery Chargers
Don Cameron wrote:
> Whatever you get, make sure that the charge algorithms are correct for
> the type of battery.
so, once my Zivan NG3 (120v) charger arrives, how do i know if the
"algorithm" is correct? is this thing programmable? testable? by me?
btw, i will be using floodies--per the kit specifications either US 8V-GC or
Trojan T-875 batteries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is from an upcoming Hot and Cold TV program in Maine. It is running on
102V of nicads. Present land speed record of 62 peppy mph.
Next stop, stick wood generator hybrid electric!!
Tom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCCPVQRXd-w
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AHi folks,
Thanks for all the responses both on and off list to the magnet
question. This may be a first though, all five responses said the
same thing, JB-Weld. I can't recall any question on the EVDL ever
before getting the same answer from everyone. :^)
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
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--- Begin Message ---
This site at New South Wales University has a very informative overview
of motor theory with excellent animations: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/%
7Ejw/HSCmotors.html#DCmotors . Just thought listers might find it
interesting - lots of other topics there also.
Still in the ev research mode,
John
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--- Begin Message ---
Sorry for not seeing this sooner. Interesting to say the least...
On Oct 17, 2006, at 7:41 PM, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
I've run into a guy selling some DC Electric Motors for $300 ea.
25HP (qty 2) and 15HP (Qty 5) continuous duty. Some are brand new in
the box.
The problem is that I think they are rated for 500V.
Hopefully he will fax me the data sheet on these.
Anyone think these might be worth pursuing?
I think they may be worth pursuing, but I don't know of any application
right off hand. EV voltages seem to be climbing though, and many of the
lower voltage motors EVers use can have issues at 300 volts <g>.
Paul "neon" G.
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--- Begin Message ---
Apparently they are about to ship:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/10/vectrix_electri.php
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup, on this very list...
It was a double email, I have been getting a few of them. And also the emails I
send out take 2 or more days to show up...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: Freedom EV Update, Sunrise news
> This report sounds very familiar. Haven't I seen this post before?
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think this is really a matter of taste so we need to be able to agree
to disagree.
For me, I heard the squeal and said to myself "no thanks". Basically I
see it as un-necessary so why have it and I think it is hard on the
motor insulation too. In a ICE powered car the fact that the tranny made
noise wasn't an issue now that and the darn vacuum pump annoy me.
I give this one piece of advice.
I bought the zilla when there was no wait and it sat and sat, and sat
until I got the motor mounted battery boxes built(I went and got a dummy
battery from the distributer)
Unless you have a prefabed kit that can go in in a weekend, just get the
zilla last, It is really worth it. (Safety,power, convienence of error
codes, valet mode, s/p switching...)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
how do i know if the "algorithm" is correct? is this thing programmable?
testable? by me?
I have a couple of radio shack data logging meters. I just hooked them up
to monitor voltage and current (through a shunt), recorded it on the
computer, then plotted the results. That being said, when you purchase your
Zivan you can specify the charge algorithm. From what I understand it is
programmable but has to go back to Zivan USA to reprogram it (although I
think some have hacked into it).
cool. i have a instrumentation/controller project in the works using
the *Make Controller* board, so i should be able to add some charging
monitoring (data logging) to this.
http://makezine.com/controller/
btw, i am really digging this controller. for a $150 it has killer
features (even a real-time OS, open source too!) and is just good fun to
play with :)
thanks for the info don!
mike
ps. i would be interested in hearing from anyone that has hacked a Zivan
charger!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John wrote:
> Not being a car guy I ask,
> Is the release bearing supposed to spin smoothly?
It should spin smoothly, but may feel/sound "different" from other
bearings you may be familiar with (such as wheel bearings).
> Is the size of the assembly recess that gets packed
> with grease important?
You don't pack clutch release bearings with grease. They are
permanently lubricated (graphite, I believe, which is why they
feel/sound different from wheel bearings, etc.). Bear in mind that the
only time the release bearing spins is while you have the clutch pedal
depressed, which is a very small fraction of the time you spend driving.
> If I end up installing a lower quality part, what is the downside?
It may fail prematurely, resulting in you having to pull the motor or
tranny to replace it. Note that when it fails, the symptom will be
squealing when you depress the clutch pedal, the car will not leave you
stranded on the side of the road. Being an EV, and so not needing to
use the clutch each time you stop or start will both extend the
bearing's life and reduce the impact of its eventual failure since you
could easily continue driving and just shift clutchless if/when required
until you can get a new bearing installed.
> Does SKF make a good product?
Yes.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Myers wrote:
> 1. Curtis squealing:
>
> I talked to a converter about this discussion, and asked
> about the squealing phenomenon (I guess that makes us all
> phenomenologists?! I always sort of liked Kant and Hegel,
> I suppose), and his response was that
>
> - mounting the controller on a non-conductive MDO or MDF
> board, (form of plywood), 4 bolts, resulted in minimal
> squeal (0-3 mph)
This seems fairly unlikely, since the vast majority of the noise will be
coming from the motor, not the controller itself.
Regadless, it also seems like a particularly poor design decision as
MDO/MDF provides absolutely no heatsinking for the poor Curtis and it
needs all it can get!
> I'm not going for a 1000 amp-pulling dragster, would like
> more range, some moderate performance, so maybe upgrade to
> the $1400 or so 550 Amp Curtis (or get a rebuilt Curtis
> with higher amp capacity from say golf cart controller
> people).
I would stay far, far away from the hopped up Curtii until they have
been proven in *on-road* applications. The Curtis has a particularly
poor thermal design, so I would expect these hopped up controllers to
offer little if any benefit in the real world since the controller will
go into thermal cutback to protect itself when it gets hot. There also
isn't a huge amount of space in the Curtis case to add much more bus
cap, which really leaves only the option of replacing the stock caps
with better quality units (lower ESR, higher temp, etc.) A hopped up
Curtis may do just fine in a lightweight vehicle like a golf cart,
where it is unlikely to see peak amps for more than a second or two at a
time, but life in a 3000-4000lb+ on-road EV is much more demanding.
> Does DC Power still make theirs (though their 1200 amp
> version, apparently the only/present version, is around
> $2200, according to an old kta catalog)?
As far as I know, DCP no longer exists. Peter Senkowsky (sp?) has taken
over support for the DCP controller line, but unless he is now
producing them there are no new units available.
Before dropping $1400 on a new Curtis 1231, you might see if you can
search out a used Auburn or DCP controller; either of these are far
superior to the Curtis and should be available used for less money than
a new 1231.
One of the best ways to buy parts like this is to look for someone's
unwanted or unfinished conversion. Often you can get a working
controller and motor cheaper this way (even if you do end up with a
Curtis out of the deal) than even buying them used as parts.
> The advice about precharge:
> We do not use the precharge resistor because it would always
> energize the controller. That is fine if you are running
> 8 hr and 16 hrs shifts; but most on-road EVs are only 30 -60
> minutes a day. Then 23 hours of nothing. Plus even milliamps
> over time will discharge the battery pack.
I start to question the credibility of this converter ;^>
The proper way to implement a precharge resistor is to place the
resistor and a relay in series across the main contactor. When the key
is off, the precharge relay is open, and so the precharge resistor is
disconnected so the controller is not left energised and there is no
drain on the pack. When the key is on, the relay closes, placing the
resistor across the (open) main contactor and allowing the controller
to precharge. If the controller is wired up to drop the main contactor
out then the throttle is released or the brake pressed, the precharge
relay remains closed and keeps the controller energised through the
precharge relay.
> So, for advice to someone encountering their first ev
> conversion project, I am curious what 'circuitry' might
> be involved, i.e. some way to have the resistor disconnected
> or something to resolve the above situation, or is the
> 'circuit' a simple resistor. What value or type, etc. (where
> do I get it, any special way to install it, etc?) / any other
> advice?
The disconnect part is covered above. As for the resistor value/type,
the controller documentation will have recommendations appropriate for
that particular controller.
As for circuitry, it depends how automated you want things to be. A
fully manual approach could be as simple as powering the precharge
relay from the ignition circuit (on as soon as key is on), and powering
the main contactor through a latching relay that pulls in off the start
circuit (main contactor pulls in by turning the key to 'start', and the
latching relay remains powered (and the main contactor pulled in) off
the ignition circuit until the key is turned off completely). A more
automated system would have the main contactor pull in automatically
when the controller voltage rises to an appropriate 'charged' level.
Some where in between is to have the main contactor close a set delay
after the precharge is first engaged.
> would also like a little explanation of the actual function
> (ok, I understand resistors) of 'precharging'
When you first get in the car, the controller caps are discharged and
appear as essentially a dead short. If you simply close the main
contactor and apply full pack voltage to the controller, the inrush
current can be *huge* (as in 100s of amps). Think of the caps as a
battery; you are connecting them to your battery pack through some
small resistance (the wiring, connectors, etc). The current that will
initially flow is going to be defined by the difference in voltage
between the two 'batteries' divided by the resistance. Precharging the
capacitors raises their voltage such that when the contactor closes and
connects the battery directly to the caps, the voltage difference is
smaller and so the inrush current is smaller. You precharge the caps
through a resistor because when the resistor is initially connected
between the traction pack and the discharged caps (0V 'battery'), you
can't do anything to reduce the voltage difference and so instead
increase the resistance to limit the inrush current to something
reasonable.
You precharge the caps in this way to reduce the inrush current to a
reasonable value because the huge inrush current that otherwise results
is hard on both the caps and the contactor and will eventually cause
one or both to fail.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Myers" >
So, for advice to someone encountering their first ev conversion
project, I am curious what
'circuitry' might be involved, i.e. some way to have the resistor
disconnected or something to resolve the above situation, or is the
'circuit' a simple resistor.
This realy isn't that hard , on my first ev I had a 120v christmass tree
light bulb and a pust button switch , all in series and running accross the
contactor ( so pust button switch and light bulb are hooked in parrelle with
the contactor's battery + and controller + . It was neat pushing the button
and seeing the light come on bright that dim out , after watch I'd trun the
key .
What value or type, etc.
the good thing about the light is your can see it work and they are cheep ,
any 120v blube will do
would also like a little explanation
of the actual function
there are 2 , the flood of current to the empty cap is hard on them , when
they are being used the voltage dose not rise and fall so much but when hit
with 120v and sitting a 0 alot of engery moves fast , and that makes heat.
, The other is that its hard on the contactor. ,
Also, any practical advice for not blowing up non-precharged
pre charge them , don't have car in forward while coasting back wards , have
timing set right on motor , watch the little spade trimminels that they
don't get conductive dirt going from them to the hi voltage wires , . Keep
the thing cool , alot of time my old curtis would get so hot you couldn't
put your hand on it . Don't drive in you hi a gear , steep hills use 1st but
still keep you rpm's up by driving somewhat fast . With a 120v system you
can have your foot to the floor and be crusing in 2nd without blowing up the
motor , the controller is full on and is not working hard , if your cursing
in 4th the controller is working harder as the motor voltage will be lower
and the motor amparge will be much higher ( to get some power ) this means
more amps flowing through the controller and so more heat, wear and tear,
motor is also working harder . This is a hard one from many new drivers ,
they want to shift , I saw a big improvement in crutis controller over the
years , I thing the fet's are better now . .
controllers, i.e. don't floor it, stay within current limits (don't try to
floor a 400 amp controller when you're at 350 amps or something?), etc.
with a 120 144 volt systum your not going to see alot of 400 amps for long
unless you are in 3ed or 4th .
steve clunn
Thanks for any advice,
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger wrote:
> When you first get in the car, the controller caps are discharged and
> appear as essentially a dead short. If you simply close the main
> contactor and apply full pack voltage to the controller, the inrush
> current can be *huge* (as in 100s of amps).
Make that thousands of amps.
Most batteries have a series resistance of a few milli-Ohm,
mine have 4 mOhm for a 12V battery.
When I dead-short then with capacitors, the initial burst
will start at 12V/4mOhm = 3000 Amp.
Usually a contactor is not closing its contacts completely
when first pulled it, they first "bounce" a little due to the
speed and mass with which they hit each other. After many
milliseconds they stop bouncing, like a steel ball dropped
on the floor when you push it down stops bouncing quickly,
but the contacts will be damaged if they are required to
bounce while carrying 3000 Amps.
Soon they will either weld shut (you can't turn the car off)
or they will not "make" reliably due to crud built up
between the contacts and they may burn up or flake, so
you won't be able to drive.
The precharge uses a resistor to control the current flowing
into the capacitors to usually just a few amps.
Within a second usually the capacitors are charged to a high
enough voltage that closing the main contactor will not
cause a large current flow, because the voltage difference
has become small.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about using Inductors to delay the current, and Caps to delay Voltage?
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:17 PM
Subject: RE: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit'
again (please)
Roger wrote:
When you first get in the car, the controller caps are discharged and
appear as essentially a dead short. If you simply close the main
contactor and apply full pack voltage to the controller, the inrush
current can be *huge* (as in 100s of amps).
Make that thousands of amps.
Most batteries have a series resistance of a few milli-Ohm,
mine have 4 mOhm for a 12V battery.
When I dead-short then with capacitors, the initial burst
will start at 12V/4mOhm = 3000 Amp.
Usually a contactor is not closing its contacts completely
when first pulled it, they first "bounce" a little due to the
speed and mass with which they hit each other. After many
milliseconds they stop bouncing, like a steel ball dropped
on the floor when you push it down stops bouncing quickly,
but the contacts will be damaged if they are required to
bounce while carrying 3000 Amps.
Soon they will either weld shut (you can't turn the car off)
or they will not "make" reliably due to crud built up
between the contacts and they may burn up or flake, so
you won't be able to drive.
The precharge uses a resistor to control the current flowing
into the capacitors to usually just a few amps.
Within a second usually the capacitors are charged to a high
enough voltage that closing the main contactor will not
cause a large current flow, because the voltage difference
has become small.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We were just discussing this in the past couple of weeks. Several people
brought up examples of open controller designs.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Obrien, Haskell W.
Sent: October 23, 2006 8:18 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: open controller designs?
I've been looking around quite a bit, and while I've found some information,
it looks like most people building EVs aren't putting out their controller
designs. Why isn't there an open controller? Am I just unable to find it?
I ran across a few designs on AustinEV.org, but that's about it. There is
the OSMC, but it's made for robotics.
I'm a fan of open hardware designs, it's silly that everyone has to
re-invent the electric wheel. If people are interested in collaborating, I
don't mind setting up a site for it.
On a side note, it looks like I managed to kill electric7.com Well, not
directly, but I featured it on hackaday - looks like it's been down since.
Will
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The zilla manual specifically requires nothing to be placed after that circuit.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 4:52:11 PM
Subject: RE: dc-dc working
If your problem is inrush then a parallel resistor
does not help - a series resistor maybe.
Altenatively - what is the unloaded draw of the Iota?
You may be able to direct connect it to the battery input
of the controller, so you are after the precharge circuit,
this should take care of slowly ramping voltage, avoiding
the inrush, but you will need a high-current 12V relay
in the output to avoid any significant current draw while
the precharge circuit is trying to get the capacitors
charged up.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Brandt
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:47 AM
To: EVDLposts
Subject: dc-dc working
Well, I discovered something. A KLKD fuse can blow without any visible
indications. And the inrush current for an Iota 240V DC-DC will blow a 5A
KLKD fuse instantly. I had to short the fuseholder with a test clip
(serving as a fusible link) before inserting a fuse. Then removed the clip
and all was well.
Any recommendations with avoiding this problem in the future? Maybe a
resistor could be added across the fuse?
David Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got no posts either.
----- Original Message ----
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]; Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:39:25 AM
Subject: RE: Not getting any evdl posts
Jim,
your post was nr 53 today, by my count.
If your email program or service provider has an
issue so the posts cannot be delivered to you, then
you will receive all the posts 2 days later
is my experience.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 10:16 PM
To: EVDL
Subject: Not getting any evdl posts
Hey all
Not sure whats going on now but I didn't recieve a
single EVDL post today. I know there were some by
going to the archieves. Yahoo's been slower than
normal today but I've gotten privates and test mails.
Anyway is there a way to check to see if it's Yahoo or
a glitch toward me getting it from the list??
Meanwhile I'll surf the stuff manually untill I figuer
out what the heck is going on.
Anyone else having, seeing anything like this??
It's been several days since I changed to text only so
it can't be related, being everything was working
fine.
Thanks
Jim
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--- End Message ---
