EV Digest 6060
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Battery Chargers
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Freedom EV Update, Sunrise news
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Battery Chargers
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) ELECTRO-SOLAR HYBRID
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again
(please)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit'
again (please)
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing);
precharge 'circuit' again (please)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: was the 4th option/ Solar car corp ...
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) nickel iron battery performance
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ELECTRO-SOLAR HYBRID
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Not recieving posts
by David Lautenschlager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Playing with an EV-1 and/or GM... Any suggestions?
by "Chelsea Sexton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Not recieving posts
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: open controller designs?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Controller co-op
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again
(please)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: dc-dc working
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Freedom EV Update, Sunrise news
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Not recieving posts
by David Lautenschlager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: how to stop getting emails
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Not recieving posts
by Marty Landman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Hot Rod Magazine Needs NEDRA photos
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: open controller designs?
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
How do I "test" SLA/AGM or Gel batteries when I cannot access the acid? How
much can a voltmeter tell me?
Don B. Davidson III
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Battery Chargers
Like Don Cameron says, you have to *test* the charger yourself to know
what you're getting! All too often I find that the specs are optimistic,
exaggerations, or outright lies. Maybe it used to work they way they
claimed, but they cheapened the design and never updated the manual. Or,
it never worked that way, and they just counted on customers to be so
gullible that they'd never test it.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Things have been moving along on the Freedom EV,
having my D+D ES31 motor, Alltrax 7245 controller delivered
by Bob Rice and Lee Hart who came down to pick up the
Sunrise body to get it into kitcar production ;^D. That's
going to get it done a lot faster as it would have taken me
a while before I could get to it. They left last night
heading back to Net Gain/Warfield Motors where Bob's car is,
Sunrise going to Minn with Lee for body finishing, making a
mold, tooling from it.
Lee donated a lot of spare EV parts, wire,
meters, nice transformer/charger parts, DC/DC, ect for the
Freedom, helps a lot getting it started on a slim budget.
Thanks Lee, Bob for all your help! We spent many hrs on
composites, structures, electronics, motors, ect.
I got the windshield made from flat truck
windshield glass, made flanges for it, doors, built a dash
but will probably change it, got materials for the rear
suspension, front spindle brackets to mate the brake/spindle
to the double A Arms, found the taper needed to mount the
ball joints, ect. So many little parts!!!!!! They just eat
up time. Luckily time is one thing I have cheap.
We fit Bob who is 6'5" in it for a size test so it
takes large people well with the right seats. And I got in
with him so it handles 2 wide well too ;^D
This week I'll concentrate on the suspension,
reinforcing the doors, hood, windshield and making the rear
door, it's a wagon. Then it's just ;^D a matter for bolting
on the motor, drive and wiring it up, upolstery, steering,
brakes, paint, ect.
Probably won't hit my Nov 5 date but will be close.
I'm able to work longer now before I have to rest should
help things along.
I took some pics of it, will finish the roll
tommarow so in about a week, they should be up and everyone
can finally see what it looks like with doors, windshield,
wheels.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before I bought my smart charger, that says it will
charge -Standard-, -Deep Cycle- and -AGM,GEL- batteries, I call a Exide
Tech for the data on the Orbital deep cycle AGM batteries.
You will notice that the AGM,GEL are at the same selection on the Schumacher
Smart charger.
The tech at Exide said that the Orbital AGM batteries are a GEL battery.
Ok, So I bought one 12 volt to test for the next four years connected to my
5 kw inverter for my shop. The load on the battery will vary from 0 to over
200 amps at 12 VDC or 20 amps at 120 VAC.
This battery is charge with the AGM,GEL setting of the charger.
To duplicated the discharging and charging of this battery as in a EV, I
still have to install AC magnetic contactor with one power pole set for N.O.
and another set at N.C. So the charger is not on at the same time the load
is on the Inverter.
Right now, its acting as a float charger, and stand by if power is loss.
I see what happens after four years. I always test out different types of
batteries several years before I would use them in my EV.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: Battery Chargers
> How do I "test" SLA/AGM or Gel batteries when I cannot access the acid?
> How much can a voltmeter tell me?
> Don B. Davidson III
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Battery Chargers
>
>
> Like Don Cameron says, you have to *test* the charger yourself to know
> what you're getting! All too often I find that the specs are optimistic,
> exaggerations, or outright lies. Maybe it used to work they way they
> claimed, but they cheapened the design and never updated the manual. Or,
> it never worked that way, and they just counted on customers to be so
> gullible that they'd never test it.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://tinyurl.com/yczzrk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an AC relay to cut out the resistor when charging. That's pretty
easy. I've got the pack split with two contactors so drain isn't a problem.
Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:10 AM
Subject: Cursit controllers revisited (squealing); precharge 'circuit' again
(please)
> ok, this is really part of the "Controllers: the (n)th option" thread
> (haven't looked back quite far enough to find out options 1-2-3, can only
> guess). 2 main points/questions: Curtis controller squeal and 'precharge
> circuit'
>
> 1. Curtis squealing:
>
> I talked to a converter about this discussion, and asked about the
> squealing phenomenon
> (I guess that makes us all phenomenologists?! I always sort of liked Kant
> and Hegel, I suppose), and his response was that
>
> - mounting the controller on a non-conductive MDO or MDF board, (form of
> plywood), 4 bolts,
> resulted in minimal squeal (0-3 mph)
> - benefits: 'tells people' the ev is moving (of course, squealing your
tires
> a little will do that too :-)
> but maybe not best policy in a parking lot )
> - 'theoretically' not supposed to make a difference, but in practice,
does,
> esp., better than
> mounting directly to sheet metal which allows it to resonate more through
> whole vehicle
>
> At this point, the options for my ev project are to wait several
months
> for a $2000 or likely $2500 Otmar controller that doesn't squeal, or spend
> half of it for a Curtis and get it anytime.
> I'm not going for a 1000 amp-pulling dragster, would like more range, some
> moderate performance, so maybe upgrade to the $1400 or so 550 Amp Curtis
(or
> get a rebuilt Curtis with higher amp capacity from say golf cart
controller
> people). Of course, with 'economy/range' batteries like 6 volt gc-ers, it
> sounds like 350 amps is the most you really want to take out of them,
though
> a little extra oomph and being able to take it higher occasionally might
be
> nice ...
> generally a 'what do I want out of my ev' philosophy question (and I've
> never had the thrill of personally experiencing the squeal, so I am,
> granted, no authority here)
> Does someone like Unique Mobility or others make decent controllers,
for
> ev's, similar in price
> and performance (of course, better would be desirable) than Curits, for ev
> use? Does DC Power
> still make theirs (though their 1200 amp version, apparently the
> only/present version, is around $2200, according to an old kta catalog) ?
I
> guess, as people seem to be saying, the controller is probably where you
> least want to skimp as it affects vehicle performance perhaps most
directly
> (aside from batteries, motor, etc.) ...
>
> 2. Precharge Circuit:
>
> it was written: "(how often does it blow up (or similar) )"
> >Quite often, thank you. I have a 1231C carcass here, with the end blown
> >clear off after it was powered up by another EVer who didn't heed my
> >advice of using a precharge circuit. I know of at least 10 instances of
> > this, not just one or two
>
> The advice about precharge:
> We do not use the precharge resistor because it would always energize the
> controller. That is fine if you are running 8 hr and 16 hrs shifts; but
> most on-road EVs are only 30 -60 minutes a day. Then 23 hours of
nothing.
> Plus even milliamps over time will discharge the battery pack. For
example,
> someone goes on vacation.
>
> So, for advice to someone encountering their first ev conversion
> project, I am curious what
> 'circuitry' might be involved, i.e. some way to have the resistor
> disconnected or something to resolve the above situation, or is the
> 'circuit' a simple resistor. What value or type, etc. (where do I get it,
> any special way to install it, etc?) / any other advice? would also like
a
> little explanation
> of the actual function (ok, I understand resistors) of 'precharging', for
> myself and other newbies, wannabes, etc. out there ...
> Also, any practical advice for not blowing up non-precharged
> controllers, i.e. don't floor it, stay within current limits (don't try to
> floor a 400 amp controller when you're at 350 amps or something?), etc.
>
> Thanks for any advice,
>
> Seth
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Myers wrote:
The advice about precharge:
We do not use the precharge resistor because it would always energize
the controller. That is fine if you are running 8 hr and 16 hrs
shifts; but most on-road EVs are only 30 -60 minutes a day. Then 23
hours of nothing. Plus even milliamps over time will discharge the
battery pack. For example, someone goes on vacation.
A properly designed precharge circuit shouldn't have the resistor
"always on," for two reasons: 1) Safety -- you don't want full pack
voltage at your controller when the contactor is off. It probably
_will_ have considerable voltage for some time because of the internal
capacitors, but having the precharge resistor always on will ensure that
capacitors that you though you had discharged will _recharge_. 2) Power
savings. I have no idea what the quiescent current of the B+ connector
of your average controller is, but it is probably (total guess here) in
the < 10 mA range. Whether or not this drains your pack significantly
is a matter of how long your vehicle will be sitting and not charging,
and the actual current draw.
FWIW, the current draw of the car alarm, stereo, clock, etc in a
standard ICE vehicle is somewhere in the < 10 mA range.
It should have a relay that places the precharge resistor in series
across the (currently open) contactor. Then, when the voltage on the
controller side of the contactor is > 80% (exact percentage open to
debate), it should then energize the main contactor, which shorts the
precharge resistor and provides full current/voltage the the
controller. Actual implementation of the precharge varies.
Zillas have this circuit built into them with connectors for precharge.
They won't go until the precharge sequence is complete.
So, for advice to someone encountering their first ev conversion
project, I am curious what
'circuitry' might be involved, i.e. some way to have the resistor
disconnected or something to resolve the above situation, or is the
'circuit' a simple resistor. What value or type, etc. (where do I get
it, any special way to install it, etc?) / any other advice? would
also like a little explanation
of the actual function (ok, I understand resistors) of 'precharging',
for myself and other newbies, wannabes, etc. out there ...
Also, any practical advice for not blowing up non-precharged
controllers, i.e. don't floor it, stay within current limits (don't
try to floor a 400 amp controller when you're at 350 amps or
something?), etc.
Thanks for any advice,
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 1. Curtis squealing:
>
> I talked to a converter about this discussion, and asked about the
> squealing phenomenon
> (I guess that makes us all phenomenologists?! I always sort of liked Kant
> and Hegel, I suppose), and his response was that
>
> - mounting the controller on a non-conductive MDO or MDF board, (form of
> plywood), 4 bolts, resulted in minimal squeal (0-3 mph)
-snip-
> - 'theoretically' not supposed to make a difference, but in practice,
> does, esp., better than mounting directly to sheet metal which allows it
> to resonate more through whole vehicle
Hmm, that's interesting. The "squeal" is supposedly caused by magnetic
resonance making the motor's coils vibrate, so the bulk of the noise
should be coming from the motor. I suppose it's possible that the
capacitors in the controller are also squealing, so bolting it directly to
a piece of sheet-metal might act like a sounding board and make it louder.
At any rate, some folks make a really big deal about this and it's not
that bad. The only reason you can even hear it is because, at low speed,
there is hardly anything else making noise in the EV.
I have an older GE controller in my truck and it squeals at ALL speeds,
above about 30 mph the noise from the tires drowns it out though.
That's something to be aware of...because you no longer have a continuous
string of explosions happening in close proximity, you notice a lot of
noises you don't hear with an ICE. The tires on the ground, the growl
from you transmission, perhaps a squeak from your brakes. As quiet as
these all are, they are much louder than the motor squeal.
> - benefits: 'tells people' the ev is moving (of course, squealing your
> tires a little will do that too :-) but maybe not best policy in a
> parking lot )
>
There is a lot to be said about the benifits of motor squeal in parking
lots. When I take my foot off the throttle the noise goes away. If I just
coast through a parking lot, most folks don't notice me coming. Leaving
my foot lightly on the throttle results in a gentle squeal with surprising
results. Even though it's not loud, people aren't used to hearing this
kind of noise and they almost always look around to find what is causing
it.
> 2. Precharge Circuit:
-snip-
> So, for advice to someone encountering their first ev conversion
> project, I am curious what
> 'circuitry' might be involved, i.e. some way to have the resistor
> disconnected or something to resolve the above situation, or is the
Well, you could do something fairly simple. Have the precharge resistor
come on when the ignition is in the "on" position, but not have the
contactor pull in until you move the ignition to "start" and have it latch
there. Add an indicator light that comes on when the capacitors are
charged up enough.
So then you just turn the ignition to "on" wait for the light to come on,
then turn it to start, contactors engage, then let go of the key and it
goes back to "on".
Sort of like starting a deisel.
Other folks have made slightly more complex circuits that automatically
handle pulkling in the contactor after the controller's caps have charged.
Either way, you aren't continously keeping the capacitors charged so.
However, I know the controller in my truck has a built in precharge
circuit, and I'm pretty sure that it keeps the caps charged all the time.
The current draw is minimal, it would probably take a month or two to draw
down the pack. A few hours while I'm at work has no noticiable effect.
Nor does having the truck sit around for a few days when I'm not driving
it. however, a week or more might. I haven't really paid any attention
to that aspect.
> Also, any practical advice for not blowing up non-precharged
> controllers, i.e. don't floor it, stay within current limits (don't try to
Yeah, add a precharge circuit. THe "blowing" up effects mentioned occur
as soon as power is applied, it's caused by the huge inrush currents. You
haven't even gotten to the point where you are driving yet.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:02 PM 10/23/2006, you wrote:
.
Roderick Wilde wrote:
John, I'm going to have to have a difference of opinion here with
you on the compatibility of the 9" ADC motor with the Curtis
1221B. This particular controller was responsible for the demise
of one of the earliest EV conversion companies in existence in the
last century. Curtis refused to warranty the controllers installed
by Solar Electric in Melbourne Florida run by Steve McCrea.
Not Steve McCrea. Doug Cobb. He was using these with a clutchless
design in S10s, with novice drivers. The controllers couldn't
protect themselves from the high current/low speed conditions and
blew up. Hence, the "C" models and the "whine" that people whine about.
This is where I got my first Curtis , When it blow I drove up there
( 60 miles north of me ) thinking I'd get another , now I know why
it never got fixed ... I got a zapi while waiting , it still took 6
months though . .
Steve was also famous for
the no longer available publication, "Why Wait for Detroit". Steve
was definitely one of the early pioneers but when you Google
him or Solar Car Corporation now you will get hardly anything.
Steve is still active, and putting an updated version of WWFD on the web.
Doug Cobb came to California and was involved in the early stages of
the Sparrow. Don't know where he is now.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I am considering buying some used 200 ah nickel iron batteries to use
in a 96 volt ev with a GE 9" motor. What kind of performance can I
expect from these batteries? I have read that they give up their charge
slowly. It will have a curtic 400 amp controller.
Thanks,
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
3.6 square meters at 21% efficiency equals about 1HP max. coming from
the solar panels..
Bill Dennis.
jmygann wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/yczzrk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have not received any posts from the list in almost two days. Is it broken?
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very interesting, all of it...
Unless MSU signed an agreement significantly different from other
universities, the original agreement does not preclude MSU from rebuilding
the car- even as an EV1 (though it requests not doing to original spec), if
that were possible. Given the particular components removed, that would be
nearly impossible- it's not that GM removed a lot, but what they took is the
hardest to replace with original parts- which is one reason why the
universities who have rebuilt their cars haven't done it to spec. The
original agreement also doesn't have any language in it about not selling
the vehicle, not getting parts for it etc. However, you can't order parts
through a dealer w/o a VIN in most cases, and inputting an EV1 VIN into the
system would no doubt set off all kinds of bells and whistles. Some of the
components are the same in the Chevy S-10 Electric, however, and some of
those were legitimately sold, so if you had a VIN....
Quoting from another university's agreement:
"You institution may tear the vehicle down and rebuild it, develop new
components, evaluate the advanced aerodynamic characteristics to study fluid
dynamics or CAD design, examine the state-of-the-art use of lightweight
materials (magnesium and aluminum), study the structural adhesive bonding
and use of spot welds, rivets and structural adhesives, etc.
We do request that the vehicle not be reconstructed to the original EV1
configuration, and we will not be in a position to make components available
from our limited parts supply. The schools may, however, use the chassis,
body and/or other components to make running hybrid vehicles, alternative
fuel vehicles, or other electric vehicles."
This is an excerpt, for sure- but, while GM will not make parts (or
engineering expertise, for that matter) available, there's no language that
says the university can't procure them themselves. And the strongest
verbiage against making the car as originally configured is "request".
Whether you'd want to is a whole other matter. Personally, I kind of like
the universities who are using the chassis as an opportunity to create the
car as it could have been has the program continued to evolve.
For what it's worth, I once went through the whole agreement a while back
when another institution was interested in potentially selling their car. I
don't recall finding any language precluding such a thing, nor mandating
destruction. There are other factors besides the agreement when it comes to
selling the car, but if the university truly isn't going to do anything with
it, it could be a fantastic fundraising opportunity for that department, and
we can help ensure it goes to someone (or a group) that would truly
appreciate it.
The GM rep on the agreement is the same person who wrote the letter you
posted.
On a side note, it was never GM's plan to add solar panels to the car. It
was, however, one of the most frequent suggestions we'd get from the general
public.
Here's a recent video of another EV1 being used by U of Wisconsin:
http://amandacongdon.com/roadblog/2006/10/17/ev1-madness
Yes, I'd definitely suggest showing WKtEC to the folks at the college... I
suspect that if they really had any sense of what they had, they'd have a
very different perspective.
I'm also happy to have further conversation with "Shop Supervisor" and
"Assistant Dean". You can assure them (as evidenced above) that I'm pretty
good at concealing identities too. ;o)
chelsea
From: "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Playing with an EV-1 and/or GM... Any suggestions?
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:42:24 -0400
I rarely start threads here, but there was no question about this one.
As I may have mentioned before, I'm involved with the Solar Car Team at
Michigan State University (I'm the longest member). We've recently
learned that the race for 2007 may not happen because of a lack of
funding. Besides that, we've never had a car before and are finding it
difficult to get motivation and knowledge to build one from scratch.
So, the new advisor and I had a talk about other options.
A couple of years ago, the professor who I now work for in graduate
school took his class to visit MSU's EV-1. I wasn't in the class at the
time, but one of my friends who coincidentally got to test the car
(Delphi employee, now a Ph.D. in E.E.) called me and I tagged along. Of
course, I brought my camera. Pictures can be seen here:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt/msuev1.html
The advisor and I came up with a suggestion of adding solar panels to it
and/or using it to experiment with. (GM of course wanted to design it
with a solar panel, but they found it would increase the cost too much.)
I just think it would be fun to see it go, no matter what we did. It
would be better than what we have now, that's for sure. I see this as a
huge opportunity that I don't want to pass up; how many of us would even
get this chance?
So I wrote an E-mail to two people that are in charge of taking care of
it, or giving access to it (I'm concealing their identities). Their
responses are shown below. We also have a hybrid car from a team that
existed a few years ago. Keep reading after this!
First message, from 'Shop-Supervisor':
> You are welcome to visit/view the EV-1 at your convenience. You may
> wish to let the folks at 'MSU-Building' (555-5555) know that you will
> be coming by and arrange a time when they can let you into the storage
> area.
>
> Please check with 'Assistant-Dean' about authorized uses for both the
> hybrid and the EV-1.
>
> My only thought is that there may be some space problems in the Solar
> cage if you are planning to have one or more of the cars in your cage
> at 'Solar-Car-Garage.'
>
> Let me know if you have any questions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> 'Shop-Supervisor'
Second message, from 'Assistant-Dean':
> Please see the attached letter from GM. They had us and other schools
> (Wisconsin got a red one) write a proposal to get an EV-1, and then GM
> got significant liability concerns. They put many restrictions on the
> use, removed the batteries, and took other measures to essentially
> make the car inoperable. So it has "zero" range. As we are paying for
> storage with essentially no use, we have been considering disposing of
> both cars, but I haven't had the heart to junk a classic collector's
> item.
>
> As I read the attached letter, the vehicle could be cannibalized for
> parts for another use, or use its components as visual aids in a
> class. The third bullet would suggest we can't get it running "as an
> EV-1".
>
> The hybrid is ours to use as we wish.
>
> Like 'Shop-Supervisor,' my primary concern is whether you have space
> to bring this vehicle to 'Solar-Car-Garage.' I suggest you and your
> team go out and take a further look, and have further conversations
> with 'Shop-Supervisor' about your intent.
>
> - 'Assistant-Dean'
Now I bet you all want to see the attached letter from GM. So I've
attached it here in HTML format. Just kidding!
I'll provide it in edited graphic and text format, but I'll need your
help to interpret it! (It was written long after MSU got the car, since
I saw it in November 2003.)
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/ev1.gif
> 'Advanced Technology Vehicles' Letterhead
>
> November 7, 2005
>
> Dear Dr. Professor:
>
> We hope that you are enjoying the use of the GM EV1 for educational
> purposes and that it is providing a good learning opportunity for your
> students in automotive technology.
>
> We wanted to remind you that as part of the donation agreement that
> the university signed, the school and its representatives agreed that:
>
> - It would not sell, give away, donate or in any way transfer
> ownership of this vehicle or any parts or components therein.
> - If you find you no longer can use the vehicle and/or its components,
> the school will scrap them in an appropriate and environmental manner,
> and/or contact GM for assistance in scrapping.
> - The school will not attempt to get the vehicle running again as an
> EV1.
> - The school will not attempt to get EV1 parts for the vehicle from
> GM, a Saturn retailer, or any other source.
>
> We trust that you will continue to abide by this agreement. If you
> have any questions, please contact me.
>
> Thank you for your continued cooperation.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> 'EV-Program-Manager' (hand-signed)
I like how she says to contact GM for assistance in scrapping. Yeah,
they're awfully good at that. I guess if you're going to scrap an
electric car, you might as well do it environmentally!
Questions for the EV-List:
- Any ideas of what to do with the EV-1, that would be legal?
- Should I try to get in contact 'EV-Program-Manager' at all?
- What should I tell the Solar Car Team advisor, the 'Shop-Supervisor,'
and the 'Assistant-Dean'?
- The hybrid car MSU built from scratch (I think) can be seen at the
left of some of the EV-1 pictures. You might get a glimpse of its name,
"Spartan Challenger." Should we do anything with it? I think the EV-1
would be 100 times as fun.
- The team still wants to put effort into building a solar car, albeit
not much. How would I deal with having two projects? Any ideas on how
to connect the two so the team doesn't think we're giving up on the
solar car?
- I could easily build a three-phase motor controller to at least get
the car going (be forewarned: I'm not ready to sell controllers yet).
We can supply our own batteries, since we still have some money left.
- Also...the Solar Car Team's never-used, two-year-old pack of (8)
Trojan SG-50s died. I charged them once in a while; they never worked
particularly well. Where did I go wrong? Can they be revived? They
act like a leaky 100uF capacitor with a 16V zener diode across it, and
make lots of bubbling noises. (On the contrary, my Renault's flooded
marine batteries from Sears are still fine after six years.)
- Should I provide a showing of WKTEC to the Solar Car Team and our
advisor (he's already "green")? I haven't seen it yet.
- Any other comments or suggestions?
- Arthur Matteson
Master's candidate, Elec. Eng., MSU
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You have a Yahoo email account, it may be blocking them thinking they are
spam. See if you have any emails in your spam folder.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lautenschlager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:10 PM
Subject: Not recieving posts
I have not received any posts from the list in almost two days. Is it
broken?
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And you are going to wait eternity man with such reaction !
When i received this, as is, from an USA ev lister, first thing i told him
was THANKS a lot !
and not... "still waiting for.... blablablabla "
go and buy the book you will have it perfect ...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: open controller designs?
> still waiting for that to be rescanned, some of the values are not
readable
>
> YES, I have downloaded the images and tried to view them in different
> programs (including photoshop), still unable to read some of the resistor
> and cap values
>
> if someone has the book, I'd be happy to scan the book in higher
resolution
> (this one looks like it was scanned in a fax machine (brrr)
>
> plus, lot of the components are obsolete and someone needs to update it
> :o(
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 2:59 PM
> Subject: Re: open controller designs?
>
>
> seems you have not looked hard enough:
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/racingcontroller.html
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:18 PM
> Subject: open controller designs?
>
>
> > I've been looking around quite a bit, and while I've found some
> > information, it looks like most people building EVs aren't putting out
> > their controller designs. Why isn't there an open controller? Am I just
> > unable to find it?
> >
> > I ran across a few designs on AustinEV.org, but that's about it. There
> > is the OSMC, but it's made for robotics.
> >
> > I'm a fan of open hardware designs, it's silly that everyone has to
> > re-invent the electric wheel. If people are interested in collaborating,
> > I don't mind setting up a site for it.
> >
> > On a side note, it looks like I managed to kill electric7.com
> > Well, not directly, but I featured it on hackaday - looks like it's been
> > down since.
> >
> > Will
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My design was same schematic but i used only one driver and 6 MTY100N10
paralleled mosfets
i had instead of high cost IGBT modules.
>From memory i had problems with current adjustement and made modification
directly on the PCB,
In this design current limitation is sensed by using the IGBT on voltage
which Mosfet don't have at such level !
so you have to change resistance to adapt it.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Controller co-op
> Philippe Borges wrote:
> > If you want to make it inexpensive, simple and effective i built a
100V600A
> > out of this design very easily (though i used big mosfets not IGBT and
had
> > to rework current sensing)
> >
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/racingcontroller.html
> >
> > It has minimal function, but can be made for less than 500$ by every one
who
> > have minimum electronics skill.
> >
>
> Any details on your modifications to that design?
>
> > For more complet motor controller with other functions (rev limiter,
> > contactor/precharge command, LCD with volts/amps on dashboard etc.)
> > it would be better starting from scratch with a microcontroller as Atmel
(my
> > favorite ;^) or such powerfull/inexpensive chip...
> >
> > cordialement,
> > Philippe
> >
>
> A very good overview read on designing/building a simple yet expandable
> MCU-based DC motor controller, for any curious types like myself:
>
> http://www.stmicroelectronic.com/stonline/products/literature/an/3714.pdf
>
> I like how the critical protection features (short circuit, overvoltage,
> overtempature) are implemented without the use of the MCU. The idea is
> to have discreet pass/fail circuits perform those functions (or even the
> MOSFET itself)
>
> ~ Peanut Gallery ~
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 24 Oct 2006 at 11:10, Seth Myers wrote:
> mounting the controller on a non-conductive MDO or MDF board, (form of
> plywood), 4 bolts, resulted in minimal squeal (0-3 mph)
The noise doesn't come from the controller, it comes from the motor. The
controller is like a giant power amplifier, and the motor is its speaker. If
the
MDF helps (and BTW I can't imagine using MDF where it would get wet), it's
by absorbing noise from below it.
> Does someone like Unique Mobility or others make decent controllers ...
One small operation's controller has been discussed here in the last few
days; check the archives.
DCP is now Alltrax. They no longer make large high voltage road EV
controllers, but they do make low voltage (up to 72v) series motor controllers.
Zapi (Zivan's cousin) makes series motor controllers up to 120v and 800a,
though they have a bit of a mixed rep.
Electrocraft (Canada) claim they make custom DC motor controllers to 300v
and 400a. A friend of mine had some kind of difficulties with them over a
charger, though, so you might want to use caution.
Russ Kaufmann (Russco) is reportedly developing another DC controller (his
last one was in the mid-80s), but I don't know how close to ready it is.
> Precharge Circuit ...
Lee Hart has published a few here on the list. They're not difficult to make.
The Curtis manual's suggestion of using a simple resistor across the main
contactor to keep the caps charged all the time is what your advice refers to,
and I would concur : this is not a great idea for a road EV.
> practical advice for not blowing up non-precharged controllers ...
Just don't do it. The failure (>if< it happens) will occur on closing the main
contactor. I don't know of any driving technique that will make any difference.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 24 Oct 2006 at 10:09, Lee Hart wrote:
> The Iota is an AC-input supply, so it has huge input filter capacitors.
Since the supply is being used on pure DC, could the filters be safely
removed or disconnected?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This report sounds very familiar. Haven't I seen this post before?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are not in my spam folder. Also, I tried sending a query to [EMAIL
PROTECTED] and got not response. I think I only got your reply because you CC'd
me. Someone here suggested that my yahoo may have bounce a couple of emails and
that the list server may have drooped me from the list. How would I reset this?
Dave
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark McCurdy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:35:14 PM
Subject: Re: Not recieving posts
You have a Yahoo email account, it may be blocking them thinking they are
spam. See if you have any emails in your spam folder.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lautenschlager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:10 PM
Subject: Not recieving posts
>I have not received any posts from the list in almost two days. Is it
>broken?
>
> Dave
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland, thanks for the concern, but (addressed to you and all other list
members) there's no need to respond to "unsubscribe me" or "help me
unsubscribe" requests. I always respond directly (off-list) to the person
asking for help.
David Roden
EV List Assistant Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you'd been dropped from the list Dave then the rest of us wouldn't
be reading your posts.
Marty
At 02:42 PM 10/24/2006, David Lautenschlager wrote:
They are not in my spam folder. Also, I tried sending a query to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and got not response. I think I only got
your reply because you CC'd me. Someone here suggested that my yahoo
may have bounce a couple of emails and that the list server may have
drooped me from the list. How would I reset this?
Dave
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark McCurdy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:35:14 PM
Subject: Re: Not recieving posts
You have a Yahoo email account, it may be blocking them thinking they are
spam. See if you have any emails in your spam folder.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lautenschlager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:10 PM
Subject: Not recieving posts
>I have not received any posts from the list in almost two days. Is it
>broken?
>
> Dave
>
--
Marty Landman, Face 2 Interface Inc. 845-679-9387
Free Database Search App: http://face2interface.com/Products/FormATable.shtml
Web Installed Formmail: http://face2interface.com/formINSTal
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Little late in the game to be needing photos, 3 day notice and all. Why
doesn't NEDRA itself have any photos to use? Sure, the website versions
are scaled down, but the originals should still exist somewhere, right?
Chip Gribben wrote:
Hello,
Hot Rod magazine is going to spotlight NEDRA in the February issue.
If anyone has any 300 dpi photos which are about 4 x 4 inches from a
recent NEDRA race please let me know. We will make sure you get the
photo credits. Most of the photos I have are all webified for the
NEDRA site so I can't really be much help.
We need the photos by this Thursday, October 26. Hot Rod is working on
that particular story now for the February issue.
The last race at PIR would be great material to use if anyone has some
photos that meet the requirements.
This is what we need photos of:
1) Shot of a NEDRA drag race with cars lined up at the tree
2) A shot of a conversion type car
3) A shot of a typical conversion engine compartment as well as the
battery packs.
For obvious reasons we can't have pictures off a website because most
of those are 72 dpi. So we need high resolution 300 dpi photos for the
magazine.
Just let me know and I will put you in touch with the Associate Editor.
Thanks,
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
0-o
check the archives, more than one said they were going to buy/rescan the
book
that's why I commented about "still waiting"
please keep flames offlist, saves on imbarrassment and ill will
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: open controller designs?
And you are going to wait eternity man with such reaction !
When i received this, as is, from an USA ev lister, first thing i told him
was THANKS a lot !
and not... "still waiting for.... blablablabla "
go and buy the book you will have it perfect ...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: open controller designs?
still waiting for that to be rescanned, some of the values are not
readable
YES, I have downloaded the images and tried to view them in different
programs (including photoshop), still unable to read some of the resistor
and cap values
if someone has the book, I'd be happy to scan the book in higher
resolution
(this one looks like it was scanned in a fax machine (brrr)
plus, lot of the components are obsolete and someone needs to update it
:o(
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: open controller designs?
seems you have not looked hard enough:
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/racingcontroller.html
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:18 PM
Subject: open controller designs?
> I've been looking around quite a bit, and while I've found some
> information, it looks like most people building EVs aren't putting out
> their controller designs. Why isn't there an open controller? Am I just
> unable to find it?
>
> I ran across a few designs on AustinEV.org, but that's about it. There
> is the OSMC, but it's made for robotics.
>
> I'm a fan of open hardware designs, it's silly that everyone has to
> re-invent the electric wheel. If people are interested in collaborating,
> I don't mind setting up a site for it.
>
> On a side note, it looks like I managed to kill electric7.com
> Well, not directly, but I featured it on hackaday - looks like it's been
> down since.
>
> Will
>
--- End Message ---
