EV Digest 6083
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Considering that next pack.
by "Lawrie, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: There's a Skunk on the road
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Motor Vibration, an' stuff I Forgot the Big one
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: [BULK] Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: article: Nano-Tech Batteries May Rival Lithium-Ions In Hybrids
by Artur Kubik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Motor Vibration
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: brrr cold zero F today
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by Jim Walls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: The air car???
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Jim Walls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: The air car???
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: The air car???
by Matt Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: The air car???
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: AGM battery charging
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Considering Conversion Cars
by "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Motor Vibration
by "Chris Sutton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Motor Vibration
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: The air car???
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: The air car???
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Paging Marvin Campbell
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Considering Conversion Cars
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: The air car???
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: [BULK] Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The cycle life of the kokams doesn't seem so poor:
http://www.kokam.com/english/product/kokam_Lipo_01.html
2500 cycles at 80%dod takes you to 94% rated capacity... not too shabby
imho, and cheaper and lighter than the valence or a123 cells.
I have my eye on the 40ah high power jobbies.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: 31 October 2006 13:55
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Considering that next pack.
I really need a little more range occasionally and am considering what
pack to go with next time around (looking 3 years out)
So i started comparing specs and it seems to me the valence setup weight
density is poor, the case and BMS can't weight that much?
to replace my 288V nominal 50ah AGM pack(34ah at 1hr rate) (please no
flames, haha, literally, i do understand the safety issue)
ignoring bms for now...
100ah 288V nominal pack is 24 valence modules * 34.5 lbs each or 828lbs,
my lead weights 1000 so that is about 3x better. 150A con 300Amp peak
100ah 288V of kokams is 428Lbs about 6x better and 500A cont 800A peak.
100ah 288V of A123 is 24 modules of 44*4 27lb*24=651lbs 3000A con 5280A
pulse assuming 44*4 blocks. so about 4-5 times better
Cycle life of kokams sounds poor, valence and A123 look significantly
better. I am starting to understand why Tesla went with the A123 cells.
now to find out the prices....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lyle,
Top speed is 35-40 mph. I haven't gone out of town yet to see what it could
eventually get to. 15 mi. yesterday around town and 35 was easy. It isn't
a tire smoker, but I wasn't getting run over either. I added a blower on
the motor so the heat is down and I may be able to adjust the ratio back the
other way a tooth. I think I am currently at 9.25:1. 1 tooth would take me
to 8.53:1 which could be too much.
I ended up with 8 T145s for a 48 volt system basically because of the parts
I had on hand and trying to use this as a learner project.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "lyle sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: There's a Skunk on the road
Hi John,
I like the name and the paint job. Outstanding work!!
What was the speed again? And how many batteries and
what voltage did you finally decide on?
Lyle
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi all,
I finally got my conversion put back together and on
the road. As the
painter was doing the paint job, he said it looked
like a skunk and the
name stuck. I have uploaded a couple of pictures to
the EV Album site for
anyone who is interested.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/751
respectfully,
John
____________________________________________________________________________________
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail
(http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OH YES! I left off the most importent part!!! MARK EVerything when you
disemble when you get home from the bal. shop!Or you threw away the bux you
spent to have him balance it in the FIRST place! It HAS to go back the way
it was assembled on the bal. rig, so it will run true in the car. A marking
ink pen will work fine!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: Motor Vibration, an' stuff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Sutton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:03 AM
> Subject: Motor Vibration
>
>
> > I have been trying to track down the source of a vibration I believe
> > is coming from my 8" ADC Motor. The vibration starts around 3k RPMS
> > and happens in all gears. I have had my flywheel zero balanced, and
> > have a new pressure plate and clutch.
> >
> > Recently I put my dial indicator on the face of the flywheel. The
> > runout was about .015". No matter what I do, and how I try and get
> > the taper lock and flywheel installed, I can not get rid of this. If
> > I rotate the flywheel on the taper lock (bolt in on differently), the
> > high and low readings always stay with the taper lock and shaft of the
> > motor, so I assume that the flywheel is true, and the error is with
> > the taper lock or motor shaft.
> >
> > I then took the flywheel and taper lock off and put the dial indicator
> > directly on the motor shaft.
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/284377471/
> >
> > and read a .001" wobble in the shaft.
> >
> > So, my question is, could this cause the vibration, or is there
> > potential for error in my measurements?
> >
> > Any suggestions? Can this be fixed? Is this normal?
> >
> > Chris Sutton
> > Seattle, WA
> >
> > Hi Chris;
>
> I went through this opera for years, on my Rabbit!Thought it was my
> tranny, flywheel, just lived with it til it got as loud as a Diseasel
> Rabbit. Would change out the tranny, no fix. My motor bearings would wear
> out in 30k miles, all that. So I FINALLY had the 12 lb Rabbit flywheel
> machined down to 6 lbs, who NEEDS a ring gear in an EV, anyhow? The
> machinist an' I watched POUNDS of scrap steel peel away, very gratifying!
> After all this, new motor bearings, comm cut and polished,a stronger
> pressure plate, and disc, put the whole assembly together. The motor
> armature,the taper lock, flywheel, and pressure plate TOGETHER as it would
> be in the car. Schlepped it down to a gas rig speed shop. Gas guyz run at
> higher speeds than we, I mean RACING gas stuff.He set it up, in a thing a
> crankshaft just came out of. Spun it up to whatEVer it took to get a
balance
> reading. IT WAS out of balance when it was asssembled. The motor armature
> was OK by itself, the Warfield folks took care of that, already. But when
ya
> put all this scrap iron together it sure as hell isn't!Yeah I had a bit of
> runout, too, like you, but I let the guy just BALANCE the whole thing as
it
> would live in the car.
>
> Results, WOW! Glass smooth the stuff EV grins are made of. Instant
> throttle response! Lay rubber in second just by flooring it! John Wayland
> did! We would still be honeymooning had I not wrecked it towing it home
from
> Joliet.The lightened flywheel makes a differance. Probably woulda torn up
> the tranny by now<g>?
>
> So,.....bottom line; Balance EVerything ,put together, oh, don't put
the
> clutch disc in while doing this, because you will NEVER get it
centered!!It
> will center when you put the thing together , when you re install the
motor.
>
> Happy smooooth motoring!
>
> Bob
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date:
10/27/06
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date: 10/27/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Of course, PC traces aren't like fuses -- they don't have some
critical
current that they carry indefinitely, and suddenly blow open if you
slightly exceed it. All that happens when you run a little more current
is that they get a little hotter. Over time, the board discolors, the
foil loosens from the board, and the solder joints crystallize and
become intermittent.
I have proved, by way of catastrophic experiment, that PC traces do make
very good fuses indeed! Fortunately I was wearing safety glasses. Yes,
they will cook the circuit board if slightly overloaded, however there
IS a current that will blow them off like a firecracker. There is a
trick used in cheap electronics, of using a specially calibrated thin
section of PC trace as a fuse. This does nothing for the consumer, but
allows electronics to pass certain UL tests called open-shorted
component tests. When they blow, it is quite a show! Of course all of
the other problems you mention happen as well.
--Lawrence Lile
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice but still not on market :-(
Artur
ps." Wujek" means "Uncle"?
Paul Wujek napisał(a):
Altair Nanotechnologies batteries -- so far tested to 15,000 cycles
(by them at least):
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/10/new_nanotechnol.php
Altair's site: http://www.altairnano.com/
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be other useful information about
their batteries, like capacity, cost.
--
============================================================
Uniwersytet Jagielloński
Centrum Innowacji, Transferu Technologii i Rozwoju Uniwersytetu (CITTRU)
ul.Czapskich 4,p.107; 31-110 Kraków
tel.: +126633837,
faks: +126633831
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http: www.cittru.uj.edu.pl, www.akcent.malopolska.pl
=============================================================
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think it is the other way around Roland. My 400 cu Chevy is an
external balance motor so my flywheel has a large weight at the bottom
for that. My harmonic balancer also has a large weight at the bottom.
An internal balance motor can use neutral balance flywheels and harmonic
balancers.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 8:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Motor Vibration
Hello Chris,
If you are using a flywheel and clutch set up that is design for a
existing vehicle, make sure it's a external balance type instead of a
internal balance.
The internal balance flywheels are use to balance a engine, while the
external balance ones are balance in it self.
Also, when install a bell housing to the adapter plate, use the guide
pins that insert into bell housing flange and adapter plate. This keeps
the transmission input shaft center line to the axles of the output
motor shaft.
If the guide pins do not fit tight, then pick up some over size pins.
The bell housing bolts in them self, will not give you good alignment.
If you do not have the alignment pins install, then next thing to do, is
to scribed a reference line at the bottom of bell housing flange where
it mates to the adapter plate.
Then loosen the bell housing bolts a bit and if the bell housing
reference mark has not move, then your bell housing is resting either on
the pins or bolts.
Then place a jack under the bell housing flange and see if it will move
up a
bit, if it does, than place another scribe mark. Leave it all the way
up
and tighten up the bolts and see if you still have the vibration. If
you do, than try dropping it down a bit and try again.
For good alignment, the transmission input shaft to the motor shaft,
should at least be 0.001 inch in alignment.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Sutton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: Motor Vibration
> I have been trying to track down the source of a vibration I believe
> is coming from my 8" ADC Motor. The vibration starts around 3k RPMS
> and happens in all gears. I have had my flywheel zero balanced, and
> have a new pressure plate and clutch.
>
> Recently I put my dial indicator on the face of the flywheel. The
> runout was about .015". No matter what I do, and how I try and get
> the taper lock and flywheel installed, I can not get rid of this. If
> I rotate the flywheel on the taper lock (bolt in on differently), the
> high and low readings always stay with the taper lock and shaft of the
> motor, so I assume that the flywheel is true, and the error is with
> the taper lock or motor shaft.
>
> I then took the flywheel and taper lock off and put the dial indicator
> directly on the motor shaft.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/284377471/
>
> and read a .001" wobble in the shaft.
>
> So, my question is, could this cause the vibration, or is there
> potential for error in my measurements?
>
> Any suggestions? Can this be fixed? Is this normal?
>
> Chris Sutton
> Seattle, WA
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Yesterday, driving around in 0F, the 75% element was able to defog the
front
> windshield, but my feet were cold. I agree that the air it was making
wasn't
> warm, but it was better than the outside air.
>
I wonder if you could use a waterbed heater as a floor mat.
__________________________________________________________________
http://www.evsource.com - Professional EV components and resources
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Humphrey wrote:
I wonder if you could use a waterbed heater as a floor mat.
I would recommend AGAINST using a waterbed heater. They are not
designed to operated without a large heatsink (the ton of water). If
operated without that heatsink, they will overheat and fail very quickly.
--
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ofc: 818-548-4804
http://home.earthlink.net/~k6ccc
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Improving the efficiency of the air pump will have very little effect on
the system, since it's the storage media that is the major problem.
Air gets hot when you compress it, this heat takes away a major amount of
your energy and is basically lost. Oh sure, there are ways to recover
some of this heat, but that just adds expense and very little efficiency.
When you decompress the air it requires heat (the air gets cold) because
otherwise you lose pressure.
That's why they have switched to industrial applications. Even though
it's efficiency sucks, it can be lighter than PbA batteries and it's
exhaust is (drum roll) air. If you have some application that requires
non-polluting exhaust and can't afford the weight of batteries, or perhaps
want a faster charge, it might be worth while.
For a consumer vehicle for on road use, it's dissadvantages generally out
weight it's few advantages.
> It would be awesome if they actually built those here in the states. I
> saw it on an episode of Beyond Tomorrow. They can go 150Km on a charge
> (air) and take roughly 3 hours to recharge. With all of our work to
> improve the effeciency of gas engines (basically air pumps) we could
> take that technology to huge heights. At 1500 lbs though I know the
> government would put restrictions and have to impose crash protection
> crap that would add another 1000 lbs to its weight.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark McCurdy
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 0:37
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: The air car???
>
> http://www.theaircar.com/
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone wrote:
>Of course, PC traces aren't like fuses -- they don't have some
critical
current that they carry indefinitely, and suddenly blow open if you
slightly exceed it.
Got news for you, fuses don't do that either. If you look at the actual
specs on a fuse, there is a curve that shows how much time it takes at a
given current to blow. You can exceed the current rating for quite a
while if only slightly exceeding the rated current. BTW, the curve is
dependent on the fuse holder too. Change the holder style and the curve
can change.
--
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ofc: 818-548-4804
http://home.earthlink.net/~k6ccc
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After all this time no product yet???? No thanks. Lawrence
Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 9:36 PM
Subject: The air car???
> http://www.theaircar.com/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if there is a good way to store the heat created by compression
and add it back to the air to keep in warm during decompression to
minimize the pressure drop created by the cooling of the air?
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Improving the efficiency of the air pump will have very little effect on
the system, since it's the storage media that is the major problem.
Air gets hot when you compress it, this heat takes away a major amount of
your energy and is basically lost. Oh sure, there are ways to recover
some of this heat, but that just adds expense and very little efficiency.
When you decompress the air it requires heat (the air gets cold) because
otherwise you lose pressure.
That's why they have switched to industrial applications. Even though
it's efficiency sucks, it can be lighter than PbA batteries and it's
exhaust is (drum roll) air. If you have some application that requires
non-polluting exhaust and can't afford the weight of batteries, or perhaps
want a faster charge, it might be worth while.
For a consumer vehicle for on road use, it's dissadvantages generally out
weight it's few advantages.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think they are having trouble with the heating of the air since
the cars are working perfectly as advertised. They charge faster than
electric and can definitely run longer on a charge. They are lighter
and you can repeatedly charge and discharge them without worry of
hurting your pack. I think this is a great technology and can
definitely improve from here.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Evans
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 11:12
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: The air car???
I wonder if there is a good way to store the heat created by compression
and add it back to the air to keep in warm during decompression to
minimize the pressure drop created by the cooling of the air?
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>Improving the efficiency of the air pump will have very little effect
>on the system, since it's the storage media that is the major problem.
>Air gets hot when you compress it, this heat takes away a major amount
>of your energy and is basically lost. Oh sure, there are ways to
>recover some of this heat, but that just adds expense and very little
efficiency.
>When you decompress the air it requires heat (the air gets cold)
>because otherwise you lose pressure.
>
>That's why they have switched to industrial applications. Even though
>it's efficiency sucks, it can be lighter than PbA batteries and it's
>exhaust is (drum roll) air. If you have some application that requires
>non-polluting exhaust and can't afford the weight of batteries, or
>perhaps want a faster charge, it might be worth while.
>
>For a consumer vehicle for on road use, it's dissadvantages generally
>out weight it's few advantages.
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
NOTE that this way of operation will chronically under-charge
all but one battery, as the nightlight will shut the charger
off as son as the *first* battery is full and its reg
starts shunting current.
Yes, that could happen. However, the little #PR2 lamps don't really
produce enough light until its battery is quite full, and the regulator
is bypassing 300ma or more. By the time this happens, you've put 1 or 2
amphours more into the low batteries than the full ones. So, it still
balances.
This method of charging brings the batteries to "full", but does not
equalize them. You have to do a separate equalizing charge once in a
while (i.e. defeat the charger shutoff and keep charging until all
lights come on).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mark,
The Rke Civic Center site has nothing about a Alternative Energy
Show in Dec. Do you have any other info or the e-mail address of
the contact person?
Thanks, Doc
On 10/30/06, Mark E. Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
I just bought a Porsche 914 1974' and I have to install a frame since it
folded in half due to age/rust and poor design. Apparently this vehicle
never came with a frame so one has to be installed; I got from reinforcement
specialties and a MIG welder from Northern Tool. (Harbor Frieght has a
cheaper one but looks cheaper :-)
the VW adapter bolted up with the bug singlelywheel (the Porsche has 5
bolts
Cheers,
Mark
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:
[email protected] Subject: RE: considering conversion
cars Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:03:06 -0500 Plain Text Attachment [
Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
How about a Toyota Echo? Low Cd, (.29), low weight (2050) and it's easy
and cheap to upgrade the suspension with Scion xB components ( people
upgrade the Xb a lot, so there are used XB parts cheap on
Ebay) phil >From: Jeremy Rutman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To:
[email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: considering
conversion cars >Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:30:14 +0200 > >I am looking at
either the Fiat Uno or the Suzuki Swift as conversion cars. >They have
similar frontal area (1.58m x 1.35m vs 1.55m x 1.42m) >and weight (887kg
vs. 845kg). >Does any one have any recommendations for better cheap/common
cars for >conversion? > > >Jeremy Rutman >Technion Physics
Dep't >Haifa 32000 >Israel >972 4 8293669 >
---------------------------------
Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on
the new Yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I already took my flywheel in and had them "zero balance" it. I
explained it was in an EV, and they understood. So I think I have
this covered, except it might be worth doing the taper lock, flywheel,
pressure plate, and clutch as David pointed out.
On 10/31/06, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I think it is the other way around Roland. My 400 cu Chevy is an
external balance motor so my flywheel has a large weight at the bottom
for that. My harmonic balancer also has a large weight at the bottom.
An internal balance motor can use neutral balance flywheels and harmonic
balancers.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 8:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Motor Vibration
Hello Chris,
If you are using a flywheel and clutch set up that is design for a
existing vehicle, make sure it's a external balance type instead of a
internal balance.
The internal balance flywheels are use to balance a engine, while the
external balance ones are balance in it self.
Also, when install a bell housing to the adapter plate, use the guide
pins that insert into bell housing flange and adapter plate. This keeps
the transmission input shaft center line to the axles of the output
motor shaft.
If the guide pins do not fit tight, then pick up some over size pins.
The bell housing bolts in them self, will not give you good alignment.
If you do not have the alignment pins install, then next thing to do, is
to scribed a reference line at the bottom of bell housing flange where
it mates to the adapter plate.
Then loosen the bell housing bolts a bit and if the bell housing
reference mark has not move, then your bell housing is resting either on
the pins or bolts.
Then place a jack under the bell housing flange and see if it will move
up a
bit, if it does, than place another scribe mark. Leave it all the way
up
and tighten up the bolts and see if you still have the vibration. If
you do, than try dropping it down a bit and try again.
For good alignment, the transmission input shaft to the motor shaft,
should at least be 0.001 inch in alignment.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Sutton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: Motor Vibration
> I have been trying to track down the source of a vibration I believe
> is coming from my 8" ADC Motor. The vibration starts around 3k RPMS
> and happens in all gears. I have had my flywheel zero balanced, and
> have a new pressure plate and clutch.
>
> Recently I put my dial indicator on the face of the flywheel. The
> runout was about .015". No matter what I do, and how I try and get
> the taper lock and flywheel installed, I can not get rid of this. If
> I rotate the flywheel on the taper lock (bolt in on differently), the
> high and low readings always stay with the taper lock and shaft of the
> motor, so I assume that the flywheel is true, and the error is with
> the taper lock or motor shaft.
>
> I then took the flywheel and taper lock off and put the dial indicator
> directly on the motor shaft.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/284377471/
>
> and read a .001" wobble in the shaft.
>
> So, my question is, could this cause the vibration, or is there
> potential for error in my measurements?
>
> Any suggestions? Can this be fixed? Is this normal?
>
> Chris Sutton
> Seattle, WA
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At least if you have them all on the same machine to balance it you can
adjust it until there is zero runout and have them balance it. When you
put it back on the vehicle there should be no question it will run
correctly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chris Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 11:44
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Motor Vibration
I already took my flywheel in and had them "zero balance" it. I
explained it was in an EV, and they understood. So I think I have this
covered, except it might be worth doing the taper lock, flywheel,
pressure plate, and clutch as David pointed out.
On 10/31/06, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think it is the other way around Roland. My 400 cu Chevy is an
> external balance motor so my flywheel has a large weight at the bottom
> for that. My harmonic balancer also has a large weight at the bottom.
> An internal balance motor can use neutral balance flywheels and
> harmonic balancers.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 8:49
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Motor Vibration
>
> Hello Chris,
>
> If you are using a flywheel and clutch set up that is design for a
> existing vehicle, make sure it's a external balance type instead of a
> internal balance.
>
> The internal balance flywheels are use to balance a engine, while the
> external balance ones are balance in it self.
>
> Also, when install a bell housing to the adapter plate, use the guide
> pins that insert into bell housing flange and adapter plate. This
> keeps the transmission input shaft center line to the axles of the
> output motor shaft.
>
> If the guide pins do not fit tight, then pick up some over size pins.
>
> The bell housing bolts in them self, will not give you good alignment.
> If you do not have the alignment pins install, then next thing to do,
> is to scribed a reference line at the bottom of bell housing flange
> where it mates to the adapter plate.
>
> Then loosen the bell housing bolts a bit and if the bell housing
> reference mark has not move, then your bell housing is resting either
> on the pins or bolts.
>
> Then place a jack under the bell housing flange and see if it will
> move up a
> bit, if it does, than place another scribe mark. Leave it all the
way
> up
> and tighten up the bolts and see if you still have the vibration. If
> you do, than try dropping it down a bit and try again.
>
> For good alignment, the transmission input shaft to the motor shaft,
> should at least be 0.001 inch in alignment.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Sutton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 11:03 PM
> Subject: Motor Vibration
>
>
> > I have been trying to track down the source of a vibration I believe
> > is coming from my 8" ADC Motor. The vibration starts around 3k RPMS
> > and happens in all gears. I have had my flywheel zero balanced, and
> > have a new pressure plate and clutch.
> >
> > Recently I put my dial indicator on the face of the flywheel. The
> > runout was about .015". No matter what I do, and how I try and get
> > the taper lock and flywheel installed, I can not get rid of this.
> > If I rotate the flywheel on the taper lock (bolt in on differently),
> > the high and low readings always stay with the taper lock and shaft
> > of the motor, so I assume that the flywheel is true, and the error
> > is with the taper lock or motor shaft.
> >
> > I then took the flywheel and taper lock off and put the dial
> > indicator directly on the motor shaft.
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/284377471/
> >
> > and read a .001" wobble in the shaft.
> >
> > So, my question is, could this cause the vibration, or is there
> > potential for error in my measurements?
> >
> > Any suggestions? Can this be fixed? Is this normal?
> >
> > Chris Sutton
> > Seattle, WA
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On another group (small efficient vehicles) there was a fellow talking about
having some invention (patented?) that uses wet compressed air (WCA) such that
that extra heat actually is used to convert some water spray into steam and
then to run a generator so it is a sort of steam/electric hybrid. I think he
was using some sort of small diesel to run the compressor.
Regards,
Chet
--- Matt Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wonder if there is a good way to store the heat created by compression
> and add it back to the air to keep in warm during decompression to
> minimize the pressure drop created by the cooling of the air?
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> >Improving the efficiency of the air pump will have very little effect on
> >the system, since it's the storage media that is the major problem.
> >Air gets hot when you compress it, this heat takes away a major amount of
> >your energy and is basically lost. Oh sure, there are ways to recover
> >some of this heat, but that just adds expense and very little efficiency.
> >When you decompress the air it requires heat (the air gets cold) because
> >otherwise you lose pressure.
> >
> >That's why they have switched to industrial applications. Even though
> >it's efficiency sucks, it can be lighter than PbA batteries and it's
> >exhaust is (drum roll) air. If you have some application that requires
> >non-polluting exhaust and can't afford the weight of batteries, or perhaps
> >want a faster charge, it might be worth while.
> >
> >For a consumer vehicle for on road use, it's dissadvantages generally out
> >weight it's few advantages.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business
(http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't get it. Is this a real product or not?
Do they have a working prototype?
It seems like it might work.
I wonder how much energy is used to compress the air for a full charge.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 11:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: The air car???
I don't think they are having trouble with the heating of the air since
the cars are working perfectly as advertised. They charge faster than
electric and can definitely run longer on a charge. They are lighter
and you can repeatedly charge and discharge them without worry of
hurting your pack. I think this is a great technology and can
definitely improve from here.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Evans
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 11:12
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: The air car???
I wonder if there is a good way to store the heat created by compression
and add it back to the air to keep in warm during decompression to
minimize the pressure drop created by the cooling of the air?
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>Improving the efficiency of the air pump will have very little effect
>on the system, since it's the storage media that is the major problem.
>Air gets hot when you compress it, this heat takes away a major amount
>of your energy and is basically lost. Oh sure, there are ways to
>recover some of this heat, but that just adds expense and very little
efficiency.
>When you decompress the air it requires heat (the air gets cold)
>because otherwise you lose pressure.
>
>That's why they have switched to industrial applications. Even though
>it's efficiency sucks, it can be lighter than PbA batteries and it's
>exhaust is (drum roll) air. If you have some application that requires
>non-polluting exhaust and can't afford the weight of batteries, or
>perhaps want a faster charge, it might be worth while.
>
>For a consumer vehicle for on road use, it's dissadvantages generally
>out weight it's few advantages.
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to use the list for this but I was contacted off list by Marvin Campbell
and when I replied I got the e-mail returned. So if you've got your ears on,
please send me your current good e-mail address.
Thanks,
Chet
____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business
(http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Porsche 914 is a unibody vehicle and like all unibodies does not have
a frame. Unlike most unibodies, the 914 also doesn't have a structural
roof.
The 914 gets it's support from the central tunnel and the rocker panels.
If it has rusted so bad that it has folded, then the rust is pretty bad
and is probably bad throughout the whole vehicle.
I'd seriously consider looking for another doner rather than trying to
rebuild that one. The cost of a good body will probably be less than
repairing that one. You can recover some of the cost you already have in
the vehicle by using it for parts for the next or simply parting it out.
> Hi,
>
> I just bought a Porsche 914 1974' and I have to install a frame since it
> folded in half due to age/rust and poor design. Apparently this vehicle
> never came with a frame so one has to be installed; I got from
> reinforcement
> specialties and a MIG welder from Northern Tool. (Harbor Frieght has a
> cheaper one but looks cheaper :-)
>
> the VW adapter bolted up with the bug singlelywheel (the Porsche has 5
> bolts
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you go to the website you can see the car in production. It is just
not sold in the US yet. I would be first in line if it was.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Trefry
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 12:35
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: The air car???
I don't get it. Is this a real product or not?
Do they have a working prototype?
It seems like it might work.
I wonder how much energy is used to compress the air for a full charge.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 11:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: The air car???
I don't think they are having trouble with the heating of the air since
the cars are working perfectly as advertised. They charge faster than
electric and can definitely run longer on a charge. They are lighter
and you can repeatedly charge and discharge them without worry of
hurting your pack. I think this is a great technology and can
definitely improve from here.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Evans
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 11:12
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: The air car???
I wonder if there is a good way to store the heat created by compression
and add it back to the air to keep in warm during decompression to
minimize the pressure drop created by the cooling of the air?
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>Improving the efficiency of the air pump will have very little effect
>on the system, since it's the storage media that is the major problem.
>Air gets hot when you compress it, this heat takes away a major amount
>of your energy and is basically lost. Oh sure, there are ways to
>recover some of this heat, but that just adds expense and very little
efficiency.
>When you decompress the air it requires heat (the air gets cold)
>because otherwise you lose pressure.
>
>That's why they have switched to industrial applications. Even though
>it's efficiency sucks, it can be lighter than PbA batteries and it's
>exhaust is (drum roll) air. If you have some application that requires
>non-polluting exhaust and can't afford the weight of batteries, or
>perhaps want a faster charge, it might be worth while.
>
>For a consumer vehicle for on road use, it's dissadvantages generally
>out weight it's few advantages.
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Brune wrote:
At least in the Curtis unit I'm working on the diodes are such that the
anode is connected to the tab. This connection is used to pass current
to the motor. This makes it difficult to find a replacement as most
diodes have the cathode tied to the tab. The only one I found is from
On Semi, MUR2020R (20A, 200V).
They are all like that. The "R" means reversed polarity (the anode is
normally connected to the cathode). It makes them a special, and harder
to get.
The part I mentioned, MBRF40250T, has an isolated tab, so all the
current flows though the leads. Thus I can mount it in place of the
SR4180R without having to resort to insulated washers. But it's still
not a drop-in replacement. Rather than cathode-none-anode, its pins are
anode-cathode-anode, which requires some lead-banding.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Of course, PC traces aren't like fuses -- they don't have some
critical current that they carry indefinitely, and suddenly
blow open if you slightly exceed it.
Lawrence Lile wrote:
I have proved, by way of catastrophic experiment, that PC traces
do make very good fuses indeed!
I should have said foil traces don't make GOOD fuses. They certainly
will "fuse" (i.e. burn open). But the current at which this happens, and
the time it takes to make it happen are uncontrolled and unpredictable.
It's like the old (engineering) joke of a surplus company selling
unmarked precision resistors. How do you know they are "precision" if
they are unmarked?
There is a trick used in cheap electronics, of using a specially
calibrated thin section of PC trace as a fuse.
Yes, it is all too common. And, it works badly. The trouble is, there is
nothing "calibrated" about it. The variations in width, length,
thickness, airflow, heat conductivity of the PC board material, ambient
temperature, etc. are so great that you only have a very vague idea
where it will blow. And when it does blow, it can arc or set fire to the
PC board or nearby parts, eject conductive bits into surrounding
circuitry, and in general make the board unrepairable.
Sometimes that is good enough; the circuit normally carries only 1 amp,
and can tolerate fault currents of 10 amps before the "fuse" needs to
blow. But more often, a circuit that normally carries 1 amp might catch
fire or be totally destroyed before it gets to 10 amps. So, you use a
real fuse. Then you can predict when it will blow.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
