EV Digest 6109
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Heaters
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Input requested on heater assembly
by "Hartsell, Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Ultra capacitor's
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: speedometer replacement
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, truly those are some exceptional heatsinks. What kind of
device-to-sink thermal impedance can you achieve?
I did agree with your note that the device on-state voltage drop would
be a better case than Lee estimated, btw.
Now also you're not taking into account switching losses though. Do you
have any estimate on those?
Danny
Arthur W. Matteson wrote:
Lee said the heatsink temperature was 50*C. Given that parameter, I
calculated the current correctly. Even if he had said that the ambient
temperature were 50*C, his current calculation is still too low because
it doesn't account for the lower voltage drop due to the lower-than-600A
current and the higher-than-25*C junction temperature.
Clearly, a brief websearch is not going to teach you much (at least if
you interpret the results incorrectly). The heatsink in question is
obviously larger than that of a CPU.
These are the heatsinks we use at work:
http://www.d6industries.com/HeatSinks.htm
Even the worst on that page is 0.15*C/W, and it can fit in a 5" cube!
This would barely hold the module anyway. The water-cooled heatsink I'm
using for my project is around 0.006*C/W, and could fit about four
modules. This would still be one-quarter of the thermal resistance Lee
quoted (but the value doesn't matter anyway, as I said above).
- Arthur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Gocze wrote:
> You could get real fancy with thermal storage, but there is
> some mass in the vehicle cab.
I haven't seen it mentioned in thie thread yet, but a possibility that
Lee Hart once suggested is to use your battries as the thermal storage.
The rationale is that the batteries like to be kept at temperatures that
are comfortable for people, and will perform their best when warm. If
it is cool enough out that you need cabin heat, then it is probably cool
enough that your batteries would benefit from some heating.
So, insulate the battery boxes and heat your batteries when
parked/charging using heating pads, etc. powered from the AC line. When
driving, have a fan circulate cabin air through the battery boxes to
heat the cabin. There is still a good chance that there will be some
smell to the heated air (battery smell), but probably less objectionable
than brush dust, etc. as would result if motor cooling exhaust were
circulated. More efficient than burning traction energy up in a
resistor or even than running a ceramic heater, however, thre is no
doubt that the ceramic heater is really going to result in the best
quality of cabin heat.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am getting ready to wire up my heater and I thought about just putting
in a separate 12 volt switch to handle the relay. I would also use this
switch to send 12 volts to the fan switch so that it would not be able
to run until I turn on the primary switch. Would this be okay to use?
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 11:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Input requested on heater assembly
Dave Cover wrote:
> Non-EE question: How does power generated on the CONTROLLED circuit
> of a relay affect the CONTROLLING circuit? If you cut power to the
> solenoid of the relay, how does the fan (generator) keep the solenoid
> engaged? Or am I overlooking something obvious?
Suppose you connect your heater control relay's coil directly across
your heater blower motor. When the fan comes on, the heater comes on.
When the fan goes off, the relay goes off and the heat stops. What could
be simpler?
But, you'll find there's a problem. Relays are built to be pure on/off
devices. Apply full power to the coil, and it pulls in. Remove all power
from the coil, and it turns off.
But if you slowly apply power to a relay coil, you will observe that it
slowly pulls in. Typically, the armature (moving part) doesn't move
until you reach about 50% of rated voltage. Then it moves part-way, so
the contacts barely touch, and stops. You have to raise the coil voltage
a little more, to 60-70% of rated voltage, before the armature pulls in
the rest of the way, and seats in its fully-on position.
When you slowly remove power from the coil, the reverse happens. The
armature stays fully-on until the voltage falls to about 10-20% of rated
voltage. Then it slowly releases.
The relay's contact ratings are based on fast turn-on and turn-off of
the contacts. When they open and close slowly, their voltage and current
rating is much less. The contacts will arc and burn, and eventually
stick and weld.
Remember the motor directly across the relay coil? When you first switch
it on, there is usually a resistor in series with the fan, to control
its speed. It takes time for the motor to come up to speed; maybe a
second. During this time, its voltage starts near zero and ramps up, as
the motor speed comes up. So the relay coil sees a slowly increasing
voltage.
And when you turn off the fan, it free-wheels for a couple seconds.
During this time, it is acting as a generator. The relay coil has a
slowly-decreasing voltage across it.
So, you have created the worst possible situation for the relay's
contacts. They can not switch anywhere near their full rated load, and
will fail early.
The best solution is to switch the relay with a separate switch; one
pole for the fan, one for the relay. Now the relay snaps on and off
cleanly.
Next best is to add a diode in series with the fan, so it can't generate
current to hold the relay in. This won't solve the turn-on problem, but
fans usually come up to speed a lot faster than they slow down, you you
might get by with it.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That why I said, No, I will not used this type of system. They are charging
at 480 V or higher multiphase at about or over 300 amps for about 15 minutes
at the end of each 8 to 10 mile loop.
I did not even buy the off board 200 amp charger for my 300 ah cobalt
batteries back in 1976, that is as large as a pad mount transformer. These
require three banks of 50 kva transformers connected in three phase 250 V
delta.
I could have install these on my service, because I have 7200/12,470 V 3
phase at my place, but I do not have to be in a panic to charge my batteries
in less than 40 minutes. Nice and slow is ok for me.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
> "supercapactior" and "ultracapacitor" have no official meaning, and are
> essentially meaningless. They do not specify any particular technology
> or size.
>
> There are a number of researchers working on the idea now. Unlike
> batteries, there do not seem to be hard limits as to what is possible in
> terms of capacity/power to size/weight ratios. I mean, there are no
> credible claims that a person can make a li-ion with 10x the capacity
> per unit weight, or even 5x. But with capacitors, the technical
> limitations are unclear. Somebody claiming a capacitor 50x larger than
> anything seen before, I'd be skeptical but wouldn't call it impossible
> and bullsh*t right off the bat.
>
> The claim of being able to recharge in minutes is problematic. The part
> which is unclear is even if the cap could take astronomical charging
> currents, where would you get that much current to do it that fast?
> Even hooking directly up to your house's 220V mains is nowhere near
> enough current to charge that fast before you'd pop the breakers.
>
> Danny
>
> Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> >George F. Hamstra is correct, they are Super capacitors, not ultra
> >capacitors. They are a different chemistry.
> >
> >I brought the subject of super capacitors up about four years ago, and
> >most
> >everyone said that was impossible to drive a EV with a capacitor, because
> >it
> >charge would only last seconds.
> >
> >People back in the 50's said it was impossible for electric cars to go
> >over
> >50 miles or to charge a battery in one hour.
> >
> >If you want to order super capacitors design for EV's (not the type for
> >Hybreds) here is the address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >You tell them what voltage and ampere you need plus the weight of EV,
> >speed,
> >acceleration and etc.
> >
> >For my EV, they said 15 modules of 17 volts each
> >would be equal to about 50ah battery at a cost of $40,000.00 which would
> >give me a range of 15 miles.
> >
> >They normally used these for electric buses that have a drive loop of 10
> >miles and then they can quick charge them at the end of each loop.
> >
> >No, I will not used these, I will go back to a battery that is design
> >for
> >EV's that I had before. Not these 6 or 12 volts batteries. Something
> >like
> >the Exide Tuder EV cells I had before.
> >
> >Roland
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike golub" >
I was wondering if I could connect each outlet to a
separate diode bridge and then parallel the output for
my 120v dc battery pack. (Take the +168v from each
bridge and each -168v from each bridge, and applying
them to my batteries).
Can that work?
Only if each out let is on the same leg and if they both or on different
brakers. You can tell if they are on the same leg buy using a meter and
putting it across the two hot leads , if it reads 0 then your on the same
leg , if not it will read 240 ( I would test all combinations incase the out
let is miss wired ) . Telling if it has its own braker is going to be
harder. How many watts dose a block heater use ? another way around this is
with a isolation transformer. This will also let you plug into 240 . The way
I hooked this one for 240 was to have the ac go through the ac part of the
bridge rectifier , then through the input of the isolation transformer , the
other end of the input goes to the other 240 ac wire . You'll need another
bridge on the out put of the isolation transformer and both bridges have
there out puts going to the batteries . I would also not just use 1 bridge
but 2 or 3 , and heat sinks and fans .
Steve Clunn ,,,, my spell checker says braker is not a word hmmmm .
thanks,
Michael
__________________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You would have to ask ESMA about that.
They are saying it would give me about 15 mile range for 7000 lbs weight.
If my batteries uses 50 ah for 15 miles, then would not that be about equal
usage?
Its not the total rating of the ampere-hour of the pack, but just the usage.
I am just comparing distance travel with my battery pack.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: Ultra Capacitors, Aluminum Batteries
> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > For my EV, they said 15 modules of 17 volts each
> > would be equal to about 50ah battery at a cost of $40,000.00 which would
> > give me a range of 15 miles.
> >
>
> What are the joule rating of these caps? When I looked it up, 3600
> kilojoules is equal to 1KWh. Isn't a 240V, 50Ah pack around 12KWh? Did I
> get something wrong here, or do you need about 43 megajoules to equal
> such a pack?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Performance might not be a problem but using a 0.5kw 2 connector motor on my
chopper I do notice range isn't as good as my scooter. But the performance
is much better than the rated plate numbers. I need two motors of 0.5kw to
match this big honker or a motor. These two connector motors are usually
pump motors. The traction motors are better for efficiency. It'll probably
work. I don't know if someone like Jim Husted could help. I'll Bcc him.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "john bart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 6:46 PM
Subject: Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
> I came across a forklift motor, and it has everything i want for my
pocketbike. A keyed shaft, 10kw continous power, and about 65 lbs. Anyway
it only has two studs coming out of the motor, plus and minus, and no studs
on the housing itself like a regular adc motor or similar would have. Do
these types of motors perform just as well as a 4 studed motor, or will the
2 studed motor give me lousy performance?
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the
new Yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He already answered. Lawrence Rhodes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: Forklift motors with only 2 polarity bolts
> Hey John
>
> Having just the two terminal posts is an issue only if
> it runs opposite of the direction you want. Although
> to advance the brush timing you might have to extend /
> lengthen the jumper lead that runs from the fields to
> the brush ring (that is if it's a series wound motor,
> not a PM). What voltage was the motor rated at in the
> lift and then what voltage are you planning on running
> it? If it's a big difference then you'll probably
> need to advance it.
> Having just the two terminals means it was designed to
> run just one direction. If ya want, send me a pic or
> two and I'd be happy to put an eyeball on them if
> you'd like. Anyway hope this helps.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> --- john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I came across a forklift motor, and it has
> > everything i want for my pocketbike. A keyed shaft,
> > 10kw continous power, and about 65 lbs. Anyway it
> > only has two studs coming out of the motor, plus and
> > minus, and no studs on the housing itself like a
> > regular adc motor or similar would have. Do these
> > types of motors perform just as well as a 4 studed
> > motor, or will the 2 studed motor give me lousy
> > performance?
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Get your email and see which of your friends are
> > online - Right on the new Yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
________
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> Access over 1 million songs.
> http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Fred,
A heating system, gas or electric is wire with safety and fan limits, which
we connect them up in this way:
The thermostat or in your case a 12 volt control switch.
This switches on 12 volt power to a Hi-Limit control normally set between
180 and 220 degrees. This Hi-Limit switch is install inside the heater
enclosure at the highest point.
If the temperature goes above this set point, then it will shut off the
power to the relay for the heater elements.
There is about a 20 degree differential, or it will drop about 20 degrees
before it turns on the relay again.
This Hi-Limit control keeps your elements and/or enclosure from getting too
hot. Some code requires two of these Hi-Limits in series, incase one fails.
>From the same 12 volt control switch, a 12 volt circuit goes to a Fan-Limit
which is adjustable from 110 to 160 F.
The Fan-Limit switches power to a fan relay when the enclosure temperature
reaches the set point you adjusted to and which turns on the fan.
We normally set the Fan-Limit to about 130 degrees, 110 F. degrees feels
cool to some people.
Now when you turn off the 12 volt control switch, this turns off the heater
elements relay and then the heater elements right away.
It takes some time for the elements to cool down, so the fan will continue
to operated until the temperature reduces down to 130 F degrees.
If you want to run this fan separately without the heater, Install another
12 volt control switch mark FAN, which the 12 V power goes directly to the
fan bypassing the Fan-Limit. This is normally call a summer position.
These are the safety items install in a heating system, which will keep the
heater elements from burning up if go into over temperature and burning down
your EV.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hartsell, Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 6:23 AM
Subject: RE: Input requested on heater assembly
> I am getting ready to wire up my heater and I thought about just putting
> in a separate 12 volt switch to handle the relay. I would also use this
> switch to send 12 volts to the fan switch so that it would not be able
> to run until I turn on the primary switch. Would this be okay to use?
>
> Fred
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 11:51 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Input requested on heater assembly
>
> Dave Cover wrote:
> > Non-EE question: How does power generated on the CONTROLLED circuit
> > of a relay affect the CONTROLLING circuit? If you cut power to the
> > solenoid of the relay, how does the fan (generator) keep the solenoid
> > engaged? Or am I overlooking something obvious?
>
> Suppose you connect your heater control relay's coil directly across
> your heater blower motor. When the fan comes on, the heater comes on.
> When the fan goes off, the relay goes off and the heat stops. What could
>
> be simpler?
>
> But, you'll find there's a problem. Relays are built to be pure on/off
> devices. Apply full power to the coil, and it pulls in. Remove all power
>
> from the coil, and it turns off.
>
> But if you slowly apply power to a relay coil, you will observe that it
> slowly pulls in. Typically, the armature (moving part) doesn't move
> until you reach about 50% of rated voltage. Then it moves part-way, so
> the contacts barely touch, and stops. You have to raise the coil voltage
>
> a little more, to 60-70% of rated voltage, before the armature pulls in
> the rest of the way, and seats in its fully-on position.
>
> When you slowly remove power from the coil, the reverse happens. The
> armature stays fully-on until the voltage falls to about 10-20% of rated
>
> voltage. Then it slowly releases.
>
> The relay's contact ratings are based on fast turn-on and turn-off of
> the contacts. When they open and close slowly, their voltage and current
>
> rating is much less. The contacts will arc and burn, and eventually
> stick and weld.
>
> Remember the motor directly across the relay coil? When you first switch
>
> it on, there is usually a resistor in series with the fan, to control
> its speed. It takes time for the motor to come up to speed; maybe a
> second. During this time, its voltage starts near zero and ramps up, as
> the motor speed comes up. So the relay coil sees a slowly increasing
> voltage.
>
> And when you turn off the fan, it free-wheels for a couple seconds.
> During this time, it is acting as a generator. The relay coil has a
> slowly-decreasing voltage across it.
>
> So, you have created the worst possible situation for the relay's
> contacts. They can not switch anywhere near their full rated load, and
> will fail early.
>
> The best solution is to switch the relay with a separate switch; one
> pole for the fan, one for the relay. Now the relay snaps on and off
> cleanly.
>
> Next best is to add a diode in series with the fan, so it can't generate
>
> current to hold the relay in. This won't solve the turn-on problem, but
> fans usually come up to speed a lot faster than they slow down, you you
> might get by with it.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A practical example in an EV:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/ultracaps.htm from Victor's web site
http://www.metricmind.com/
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tehben Dean
Sent: November 5, 2006 7:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Ultra capacitor's
I have heard talk about "Ultra capacitor's" (basically a gigantic
capacitor) being used to capture braking energy and rapidly discharge it for
speedy acceleration.
Is there such thing as an "Ultra capacitor" available? Has anyone ever
tried it?
-Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have any of you did road rallying? Back in the 50's-60's I had a Swiss
watch design for road rallying? Road rallying is a time event where you are
to travel at 39.5 mpg for 19.8 miles and then turn left and so forth. If
there is no road at your left turn, then you made a mistake.
The Swiss watch I had is where you input the tire diameter, gear ratios,
rpm at mph, distance and etc.
While traveling at a set rpm, it will count down in minutes and seconds to
where you must make the next change.
Normally I would have a co-driver to do all the calculations.
The winner of these events are in about 0.1 of a second of the time for that
distance.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: speedometer replacement
> Lock Hughes wrote:
> > Can't get changes in elevation on the speedo either
> > :)
> > tks
> > Lock
> > Toronto
> > Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian
> >
> > --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Not this one. It seems as useful as my speedometer. It's a great
> >> way to
> >> find out the error of your speedometer and it's an amazing trip
> >> odometer.
> >> Lawrence Rhodes.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[email protected]>
> >> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 10:54 AM
> >> Subject: Re: speedometer replacement
> >>
>
> What about tunnels?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim, John,
Does 10 kW continuous for a 65 lb motor sound a bit fishy?
Jeff
Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey John
Having just the two terminal posts is an issue only if
it runs opposite of the direction you want. Although
to advance the brush timing you might have to extend /
lengthen the jumper lead that runs from the fields to
the brush ring (that is if it's a series wound motor,
not a PM). What voltage was the motor rated at in the
lift and then what voltage are you planning on running
it? If it's a big difference then you'll probably
need to advance it.
Having just the two terminals means it was designed to
run just one direction. If ya want, send me a pic or
two and I'd be happy to put an eyeball on them if
you'd like. Anyway hope this helps.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- john bart wrote:
> I came across a forklift motor, and it has
> everything i want for my pocketbike. A keyed shaft,
> 10kw continous power, and about 65 lbs. Anyway it
> only has two studs coming out of the motor, plus and
> minus, and no studs on the housing itself like a
> regular adc motor or similar would have. Do these
> types of motors perform just as well as a 4 studed
> motor, or will the 2 studed motor give me lousy
> performance?
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your email and see which of your friends are
> online - Right on the new Yahoo.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Access over 1 million songs.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
If the outlets are on the same phase, and the circuit is limit to 20 amps,
then you can only draw up to about 18 amps.
If the outlets are on two separate phases, where you would read 240 volts
between the two outlets, than you can run two circuits of 18 amps.
Note: It is preferred to stay at 16 amps on a 20 amp outlet which is 80%.
Sometimes the 18 amps will overheat a thermo circuit breaker instead of a
magnetic circuit breaker.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike golub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 12:46 AM
Subject: Dual outlet opportunity charging
>
>
> First, all the outlets for block heaters here in
> Fairbanks, AK are on 20 amp breakers.
>
> Sometimes I'll park somewhere, and I can have access
> to two 20 amp outlets.
>
> I was wondering if I could connect each outlet to a
> separate diode bridge and then parallel the output for
> my 120v dc battery pack. (Take the +168v from each
> bridge and each -168v from each bridge, and applying
> them to my batteries).
>
> Can that work?
>
> thanks,
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________________________
> Sponsored Link
>
> Talk more and pay less. Vonage can save you up to $300 a year on your
> phone bill.
> Sign up now. http://www.vonage.com/startsavingnow/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Series/parallel swittching is a solution to a problem, that, in a car with
a
multi-speed transmission, does not exist. Series-parallel switching
capability is most useful when you don't have multiple gears. In that
case, this switching provides you with two effective gear ratios ( with a
ratio of 2:1) instead of one. If you do have multiple gears, there is
little or no benefit, especially considering the time delay during the
switch.
I'm not sure but it may be 4 to 1 my thinking .... say each motor is at a
rpm that gives it 1 ohm , in series it would equal 2 ohms and it parallel
1/2 ohm. as for the shifting gears and what not , with a 2k zilla and the
motors in series you will spin the wheels in 4th from a stand still so
taking off in 2nd or 3ed just means shifting soon . I had a 11 in my
Mitsubishi pu and found 4th gear to be the best for take offs , any other
gear would not spin the wheels as fast or as long. This is a video of it
taking off in 4th
http://www.grassrootsev.com/mits.htm in any other gear the burn out is
shorter , at take off the speed o would say 60 mph . With this set up at
about 80 the 11 was starting to fall asleep as the amps are starting falling
. It would need another gear or another 11 and the parallel shift so the
controller could again pull heavy on the batteries . Another problem with
shifting is that you need a clutch that can take the torque .
steve clunn
If you have a 5-speed gearbox AND series-parallel switching, you would
effectively have 10 gears instead of five - with most of those gears
effectively overlapping.
For instance 2nd gear in parallel would be effectively the same as 4th
gear in series - if your second and forth gears differ in ratio by a
factor of 2. By this I mean that if the car were at the same speed in
these two cases, and the current out of the controller was the same, the
torque at the wheels AND the voltage at the controller would be the same
in both cases. There are some minor differences, such as the motor will
be better cooled in the higher RPM case.
In any case, switching from series to parallel when the RPMs drop ( such
as just after an upshift) is not the right time to do it.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I have been testing and using ultracapacitors for years, including Tavrima,
ESMA, Maxwell and EPCOS. Here's some of my thoughts.
The terms super and ultra really do not mean anything here. There is no
industry standard for this terminology. Probably most correct to call these
monsters "electrochemical capacitors", as opposed to electrostatic or
electrolytic.
The Tavrima product is made by Econd of Russia. It is bipolar, carbon-carbon
(symetric) device using aqueous electrolyte (KOH) and consist of many cells,
each rated at about one volt. They have been around for many years, first
developed and used for diesel engine cranking in Siberia.
Different manufacturers of these electrochemical capacitors will use aqueous
or organic electrolyte, depending on their recipe. "Super" and "ultra" have
nothing to do with it. Mnay companies offer "ultracapacitors" which are the
low voltage (2v to 3v) carbon-carbon cells. Some have organic, some have
aqueous electrolyte.
Jeff
Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What do you use yours for?
-Tehben
On Nov 6, 2006, at 3:37 PM, George F. Hamstra wrote:
> Just a quick point of clarification:
>
> Tavrima make SUPERcapacitors - I have some that are 400 Volt 2
> Farads (165,000 Joules each) These differ from
> ULTRAcapacitors which are typically MUCH lower voltage per cell.
> The main difference between super and ultra caps is this:
> SUPERcaps are aqueous based, while ULTRAcaps are organic based...
> I hope this helps clarify a bit...
>
> Ryan Stotts wrote:
>> Is any of this stuff going to be a reality, or is it just the same
>> old story?
>>
>> http://electricperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=11
>>
>>
>
---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some sort of 'brake buddy' would work. Though one would have to leave
the brake pedal operating. A 'brake buddy' is connected to the brake
pedal, it senses negative accelaration and actually pushes the brake
pedal with compressed air.
We use it to pull our car behind a motorhome.
Michaela
> I would be interested in seeing what you find for surge breaks. The only
> ones I've seen are on the utility trailers. They have enough spring
> pressure
> so they don't operate when backing the trailer. But for a pusher trailer,
> you might be dragging the brake all the time, unless you have an
> alternative. Maybe a solenoid that cuts the brakes when the throttle is
> on?
>
> BTW, have you come up with a kill switch? If this unit kicks loose from
> your
> car (it can happen) you wouldn't want it rampaging the neighborhood. <g>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> The plan is to add a surge brake
>> couple designed for hydraulic disc brakes, and then couple that to
>> the stock Honda front discs. A solenoid valve, the kind used on boat
>> trailers to allow them to back up, will be wired through a relay to
>> the brake lights. Basically, the valve will be closed preventing the
>> brakes from applying, unless the brake lights are on. This will
>> allow the pusher to push without triggering the brakes.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I added a factory relay to the bracket on the firewall. It looks
bone stock and very clean. The only problem is that the relay
oscillates every time the vacuum switch opens. Can I put a cap
somewhere to mellow out the oscillations?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> That is how my vacuum is wired:
> Vacuum Switch - relay - pump.
> When your pump starts running 100% you only need to pull the
> relay to stop it. (And _stand_ on the brake pedal)
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:52 AM
> To: Lawrence Rhodes
> Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
>
>
> I remember seeing that one. It just didn't quite make the 5 amps I
> needed. Although I really like microswitches. I suppose adding a
> relay would fix it.
>
> Mike
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <ev@> wrote:
> >
> > EV parts has an inexpensive one. Gotta watch the connections.
They are
> > weak. Had to solder mine back on. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@>
> > To: "Cor van de Water" <ev@>
> > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
> >
> >
> > > I didn't change the topic clearly enough. My vacuum switch for the
> > > power brake vacuum pump is seized. I need a new one.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Huh, What is the vacuum switch going to do?
> > > > Your brake pedal already has a brake light switch
> > > > if that is what you want.
> > > >
> > > > Cor van de Water
> > > > Systems Architect
> > > > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > > > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > > > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > > > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > > > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > > > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:27 PM
> > > > To: Cor van de Water
> > > > Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the math. Still, if the hardware is available I
might as
> > > > well use it.
> > > >
> > > > Where can I get a vacuum switch that can handle 5 amps at 12v?
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Normal brake light is 12V 21W
> > > > > so with DC/DC inefficiencies the 65W can easily
> > > > > draw more than 80W.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just how often are you braking?
> > > > > I think that when I add all the time in my 20 - 25 min
> > > > > commute that I am actually sitting on the brake, it
> > > > > will total around 2 - 3 min (on level road I do not brake
> > > > > once stopped, on slight upramp I keep the accelerator
> > > > > a tiny bit depressed to hold the vehicle with an
> > > > > unmeasurable amount of current from the pack.)
> > > > > Just as unmeasurable as the brake light consumption:
> > > > > If you brake for 3 min that will cost you 1/20 (3min/60min)
> > > > > times the power consumption (=90W) or about 5Wh.
> > > > > If your vehicle is well aligned and needs 200Wh/mi this
> > > > > means that the brake lights cost you 1/40 mile range.
> > > > > I do not think those 120 feet makes a real difference
> > > > > that is so much of a cencern that you should worry
> > > > > about them.
> > > > > If you drive 1 mph less fast or take off 1/2 second slower
> > > > > then you are going to gain much more range.
> > > > > Better focus on tire rolling resistance, bearing quality,
> > > > > brake drag, aerodynamics and all those other big energy
> > > > > consumers, before paying attention to the issues below the
> > > > > 0.1% line.
> > > > >
> > > > > YMMV.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cor van de Water
> > > > > Systems Architect
> > > > > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > > > > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > > > > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > > > > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > > > > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > > > > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:35 PM
> > > > > To: ev@
> > > > > Subject: Re: LED brakelights
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The emeter shows a drop of .3 amps when I step on the brake
pedal.
> > > With
> > > > > out more accuracy it could be .21 amps at 300v. 60w is close
to 3
> > > brake
> > > > > lamp elements IIRC.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > At 09:20 PM 10/5/2006, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > > > > > >At 08:55 PM 10/5/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > > > > >>I'm wanting to replace my 3 brake light bulbs as they pull
> .3 amps
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > >>the 300v pack thru the dc-dc. That's just a plain waste.
Then
> > > there
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > >>the 2 running light elements as well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Wow, you must have BRIGHT brake lights. 900W of power!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Somehow I don't think your brake lights are pulling 3A
out of a
> > > 300v
> > > > > > pack.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oops, now I see the decimal point.
> > > > > > I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@
> > > > > > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > > > > > http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's to the crazy ones.
> > > > > The misfits.
> > > > > The rebels.
> > > > > The troublemakers.
> > > > > The round pegs in the square holes.
> > > > > The ones who see things differently
> > > > > The ones that change the world!!
> > > > >
> > > > > www.RotorDesign.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you want a snubber circuit.
Mike Phillips wrote:
So I added a factory relay to the bracket on the firewall. It looks
bone stock and very clean. The only problem is that the relay
oscillates every time the vacuum switch opens. Can I put a cap
somewhere to mellow out the oscillations?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That is how my vacuum is wired:
Vacuum Switch - relay - pump.
When your pump starts running 100% you only need to pull the
relay to stop it. (And _stand_ on the brake pedal)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:52 AM
To: Lawrence Rhodes
Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
I remember seeing that one. It just didn't quite make the 5 amps I
needed. Although I really like microswitches. I suppose adding a
relay would fix it.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <ev@> wrote:
EV parts has an inexpensive one. Gotta watch the connections.
They are
weak. Had to solder mine back on. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <mikep_95133@>
To: "Cor van de Water" <ev@>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
I didn't change the topic clearly enough. My vacuum switch for the
power brake vacuum pump is seized. I need a new one.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@>
wrote:
Huh, What is the vacuum switch going to do?
Your brake pedal already has a brake light switch
if that is what you want.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:27 PM
To: Cor van de Water
Subject: Re: LED brakelights (Vacuum switch)
Thanks for the math. Still, if the hardware is available I
might as
well use it.
Where can I get a vacuum switch that can handle 5 amps at 12v?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@>
wrote:
Normal brake light is 12V 21W
so with DC/DC inefficiencies the 65W can easily
draw more than 80W.
Just how often are you braking?
I think that when I add all the time in my 20 - 25 min
commute that I am actually sitting on the brake, it
will total around 2 - 3 min (on level road I do not brake
once stopped, on slight upramp I keep the accelerator
a tiny bit depressed to hold the vehicle with an
unmeasurable amount of current from the pack.)
Just as unmeasurable as the brake light consumption:
If you brake for 3 min that will cost you 1/20 (3min/60min)
times the power consumption (=90W) or about 5Wh.
If your vehicle is well aligned and needs 200Wh/mi this
means that the brake lights cost you 1/40 mile range.
I do not think those 120 feet makes a real difference
that is so much of a cencern that you should worry
about them.
If you drive 1 mph less fast or take off 1/2 second slower
then you are going to gain much more range.
Better focus on tire rolling resistance, bearing quality,
brake drag, aerodynamics and all those other big energy
consumers, before paying attention to the issues below the
0.1% line.
YMMV.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:35 PM
To: ev@
Subject: Re: LED brakelights
The emeter shows a drop of .3 amps when I step on the brake
pedal.
With
out more accuracy it could be .21 amps at 300v. 60w is close
to 3
brake
lamp elements IIRC.
Mike
--- "John G. Lussmyer" <Cougar@> wrote:
At 09:20 PM 10/5/2006, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
At 08:55 PM 10/5/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
I'm wanting to replace my 3 brake light bulbs as they pull
.3 amps
from
the 300v pack thru the dc-dc. That's just a plain waste.
Then
there
are
the 2 running light elements as well.
Wow, you must have BRIGHT brake lights. 900W of power!
Somehow I don't think your brake lights are pulling 3A
out of a
300v
pack.
Oops, now I see the decimal point.
I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
