EV Digest 6115
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: A Very Interesting Quote - from Automotive News - and GM's Lutz
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by "Greg Watson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: VW Vanagon as Glider?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: New Zilla startup questions, (HELP!)
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Battery standing voltage question
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Siamese motors are now considered "HACKED!"
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Tesla mentioned in the IEEE Institute Online Newsletter
by Jay Snable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) OT: Fox News falls for Steorn
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Or this line ***Such a vehicle would require "a much smaller fuel cell stack"
than a vehicle in which the fuel cell powers an electric engine,***
and if they ditch the fuel cell altogether it could be an affordable car....
as well as the gas engine they could get back on a Green Track
:-O
>Steven Lough wrote
> But it is his last line ....
>
> .... "what started as a fuel cell project is now an electric
> vehicle
> project."
>
> W H A T ? ? ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Altair is claiming a possible 25 year life versus 2 years for
conventional Lithium batery.
Check out these pdf's
http://www.altairnano.com/documents/060926HOUSECARBZEV.pdf
http://www.altairnano.com/documents/NanoSafeBackgrounder060920.pdf
If these claims are true I can see why Phoenix Motrorcars switched. : )
-Tehben
On Nov 8, 2006, at 1:37 PM, Paschke, Stephen wrote:
We heard about this on this list in a press release a few months ago.
There was a lot of "I'll believe it when I see it."
I still say prove it. I'm sure that is not a full charge. Maybe
80% or
the top 5%?
Remember they said "as little as".
Stephen Paschke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of GWMobile
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
Why haven't we heard of this battery technology before?
That's astounding and the 10 minute charge changes EVERYTHING.
Range isn't a problem if you can recharge in 10 minutes. That is less
than the time it takes to fill a gas tank!
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:43 pm, Tehben Dean wrote:
Sweet!
I guess they have changed battery suppliers. They were going to be
using Valence batteries at one point, It was putting valence in the
news, I wonder what happened?
The Altairnano batts sound pretty cool, 250 mile range, 95mph, 10
minute charge time.
Wonder what their vehicles will cost? $$$,$$$.$$
-Tehben
On Nov 8, 2006, at 9:17 AM, MIKE WILLMON wrote:
Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
10:00 a.m. 11/07/2006 Provided by
ONTARIO, Calif., Nov 07, 2006 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Phoenix Motorcars,
exhibiting their new zero emission, all-electric, freeway-ready
sports utility truck, received substantial media attention at the
SEMA show last week. SEMA is the Specialty Equipment Market
Association ( www.sema.org ) show attended by over 200,000
automobile
industry buyers.
Phoenix Motorcars introduced a zero emission, all-electric sport
utility truck, which is powered by a revolutionary Altairnano
NanoSafe(TM) battery pack (ALTI), and the truck targets the fleet
vehicle owner market. The Phoenix Motorcars sport utility truck
exceeds all specifications for a Type III ZEV, having a driving
range
of 130 miles, it can be recharged in less than 10 minutes and the
battery pack has a life of 12 years or more. Surprisingly, the cost
to recharge the battery pack is less than $3.00!!
The Phoenix Motorcars zero emission, all-electric sport utility
truck
can cruise on the freeway at up to 95 mph while carrying 5
passengers
and a full payload. The Phoenix Motorcars Sport Utility Truck has a
low cost maintenance schedule and will be introduced in early 2007.
The Phoenix Motorcars SUV will be introduced in late 2007 with two
configurations, having a range of either 130 or 250 miles and both
configurations can be recharged in less than 10 minutes.
Phoenix Motorcars is receiving a solid market response with over
600
expressions of interest from fleet vehicle owners and great press
coverage with over 50 media briefings conducted in the past week,
including two press conferences held by the actor and environmental
activist Ed Begley Jr. An excellent media story was a lead article
on
the Popular Mechanics website at: http://
www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4201003.html
"The Phoenix Motorcars Sport Utility Trucks and Vehicles astound
people because these vehicles are full sized vehicles which carry
five people at freeway speeds, unlike the public perception of an
electric vehicle which is a golf cart sized, low speed, two
passenger
vehicle. There is tremendous pent up demand for a real zero
emission,
all-electric vehicle and we are well positioned to satisfy this
market demand," comments Phoenix Motorcars CEO Dan Elliott.
Phoenix Motorcars will introduce our Sport Utility Truck for the
Fleet Vehicle Market in early 2007 and plan to produce at least 500
zero emission, all electric trucks in 2007. The SUV will be
introduced in late 2007. Vehicle orders are being taken for the
Phoenix SUT now for delivery in early 2007 and for the SUV for
delivery in late 2007, at affordable pricing.
ABOUT PHOENIX MOTORCARS, INC.
Phoenix Motorcars Inc., headquartered in Ontario, California, has
been an industry leader in the development of battery electric
freeway speed vehicles since 2001. The mission of Phoenix Motorcars
is to manufacture zero emission vehicles including Sport Utility
Trucks and Sport Utility Vehicles to reduce the toxic emissions
from
the largest contributor to air pollution, personal automobiles. For
additional information visit: www.phoenixmotorcars.com .
Phoenix Motorcars Inc.
Jana White, +1-909-987-0815
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copyright Business Wire 2006
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
**************************************************************
This message, including any attachments, contains confidential
information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is
protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies.
You are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or
distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on
it, is strictly prohibited.
TIAA-CREF
**************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good point.
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 2:52 pm, Paschke, Stephen wrote:
We heard about this on this list in a press release a few months ago.
There was a lot of "I'll believe it when I see it."
I still say prove it. I'm sure that is not a full charge. Maybe 80%
or
the top 5%?
Remember they said "as little as".
Stephen Paschke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of GWMobile
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
Why haven't we heard of this battery technology before?
That's astounding and the 10 minute charge changes EVERYTHING.
Range isn't a problem if you can recharge in 10 minutes. That is less
than the time it takes to fill a gas tank!
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:43 pm, Tehben Dean wrote:
Sweet!
I guess they have changed battery suppliers. They were going to be
using Valence batteries at one point, It was putting valence in the
news, I wonder what happened?
The Altairnano batts sound pretty cool, 250 mile range, 95mph, 10
minute charge time.
Wonder what their vehicles will cost? $$$,$$$.$$
-Tehben
On Nov 8, 2006, at 9:17 AM, MIKE WILLMON wrote:
Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
10:00 a.m. 11/07/2006 Provided by
ONTARIO, Calif., Nov 07, 2006 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Phoenix Motorcars,
exhibiting their new zero emission, all-electric, freeway-ready
sports utility truck, received substantial media attention at the
SEMA show last week. SEMA is the Specialty Equipment Market
Association ( www.sema.org ) show attended by over 200,000
automobile
industry buyers.
Phoenix Motorcars introduced a zero emission, all-electric sport
utility truck, which is powered by a revolutionary Altairnano
NanoSafe(TM) battery pack (ALTI), and the truck targets the fleet
vehicle owner market. The Phoenix Motorcars sport utility truck
exceeds all specifications for a Type III ZEV, having a driving
range
of 130 miles, it can be recharged in less than 10 minutes and the
battery pack has a life of 12 years or more. Surprisingly, the cost
to recharge the battery pack is less than $3.00!!
The Phoenix Motorcars zero emission, all-electric sport utility
truck
can cruise on the freeway at up to 95 mph while carrying 5
passengers
and a full payload. The Phoenix Motorcars Sport Utility Truck has a
low cost maintenance schedule and will be introduced in early 2007.
The Phoenix Motorcars SUV will be introduced in late 2007 with two
configurations, having a range of either 130 or 250 miles and both
configurations can be recharged in less than 10 minutes.
Phoenix Motorcars is receiving a solid market response with over 600
expressions of interest from fleet vehicle owners and great press
coverage with over 50 media briefings conducted in the past week,
including two press conferences held by the actor and environmental
activist Ed Begley Jr. An excellent media story was a lead article
on
the Popular Mechanics website at: http://
www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4201003.html
"The Phoenix Motorcars Sport Utility Trucks and Vehicles astound
people because these vehicles are full sized vehicles which carry
five people at freeway speeds, unlike the public perception of an
electric vehicle which is a golf cart sized, low speed, two
passenger
vehicle. There is tremendous pent up demand for a real zero
emission,
all-electric vehicle and we are well positioned to satisfy this
market demand," comments Phoenix Motorcars CEO Dan Elliott.
Phoenix Motorcars will introduce our Sport Utility Truck for the
Fleet Vehicle Market in early 2007 and plan to produce at least 500
zero emission, all electric trucks in 2007. The SUV will be
introduced in late 2007. Vehicle orders are being taken for the
Phoenix SUT now for delivery in early 2007 and for the SUV for
delivery in late 2007, at affordable pricing.
ABOUT PHOENIX MOTORCARS, INC.
Phoenix Motorcars Inc., headquartered in Ontario, California, has
been an industry leader in the development of battery electric
freeway speed vehicles since 2001. The mission of Phoenix Motorcars
is to manufacture zero emission vehicles including Sport Utility
Trucks and Sport Utility Vehicles to reduce the toxic emissions from
the largest contributor to air pollution, personal automobiles. For
additional information visit: www.phoenixmotorcars.com .
Phoenix Motorcars Inc.
Jana White, +1-909-987-0815
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copyright Business Wire 2006
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
**************************************************************
This message, including any attachments, contains confidential
information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is
protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies. You
are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of
this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly
prohibited.
TIAA-CREF
**************************************************************
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
but if I'm on the same phase...I'll just get the 120
vac...Right?
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Without knowing it they are on the same phase or
> not,
> you have no clue whether you are going to get 120
> or 240V! when using two diode bridges.
>
> NOTE that with each cord feeding its own diode
> bridge
> (a great idea to avoid current flowing out one cord
> when plugging in the other) then each of the two
> bridges will provide the highest voltage it sees to
> the + output of the bridge and the lowest voltage to
> the - output of any bridge.
>
> With the two bridges' outputs connected + to + and -
> to -
> they can be supplying the same rectified 120V if the
> two circuits are on the same phase.
> However, if they are different phases, then only one
> diode of each bridge conducts, from the highest of
> the
> two 120V phases to the + and from the lowest of the
> two phases to the - output.
> All other 3 diodes in each bridge will block.
> This means that the two phases are added and you get
> rectified 240V, approximately 340V, from the bridge.
>
> NOTE that the bridges must be 400V or higher types
> or
> they will fail.
>
> It depends on your charger if it can take the 340V
> input or will fail as soon as you plug into two
> different phases.
>
> NOTE there are so many failure cases with using two
> sockets combined at the same time, that I would
> advice
> against it and use appropriate outlets and plugs to
> get the power you want and that is safely available!
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
> http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD#
> 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 9:56 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging
>
>
> The block heaters typically have the 20amp breaker
> where the outlet is. If not you can walk about 30
> feet
> to the clearly marked box. Most outlets are
> numbered,
> and are clearly written which outlet is which. So
> sometimes you can walk the 30 feet look into the
> circuit breaker box and see that they are both on
> separate circuits and if they are on different
> "phases".
>
> But the question remains is it ok to make something
> universal that would use to extension cords to
> separate diode bridges. I know each will have its
> own 20 amp breaker, but not always on the same
> phase.
>
> thanks
>
> --- steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "mike golub" >
> > > I was wondering if I could connect each outlet
> to
> > a
> > > separate diode bridge and then parallel the
> output
> > for
> > > my 120v dc battery pack. (Take the +168v from
> each
> > > bridge and each -168v from each bridge, and
> > applying
> > > them to my batteries).
> > >
> > > Can that work?
> > >
> > Only if each out let is on the same leg and if
> they
> > both or on different
> > brakers. You can tell if they are on the same leg
> > buy using a meter and
> > putting it across the two hot leads , if it reads
> 0
> > then your on the same
> > leg , if not it will read 240 ( I would test all
> > combinations incase the out
> > let is miss wired ) . Telling if it has its own
> > braker is going to be
> > harder. How many watts dose a block heater use ?
> > another way around this is
> > with a isolation transformer. This will also let
> you
> > plug into 240 . The way
> > I hooked this one for 240 was to have the ac go
> > through the ac part of the
> > bridge rectifier , then through the input of the
> > isolation transformer , the
> > other end of the input goes to the other 240 ac
> wire
> > . You'll need another
> > bridge on the out put of the isolation transformer
> > and both bridges have
> > there out puts going to the batteries . I would
> > also not just use 1 bridge
> > but 2 or 3 , and heat sinks and fans .
> > Steve Clunn ,,,, my spell checker says braker is
> not
> > a word hmmmm .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > thanks,
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> ________
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> Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's - in less than
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____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 6, 2006, at 1:41 PM, Michael wrote:
Driving w/ a hitch would be lifting, so perhaps it'd be wise to balance
the trailer with a bit more weight on the tonge than you'd normall use.
Another good catch. The torque of the drive wheels on the trailer will
tend to lift the trailer tongue. Your proposed solution sounds like a
good one.
How about making the trailer tongue longer? Would this improve or hurt
safety and handling?
Picking the right donor vehicle would help. You want one with some
weight forward of the front wheels.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The battery technology is very impressive:
http://www.altairnano.com/documents/060926HOUSECARBZEV.pdf
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
Why haven't we heard of this battery technology before?
That's astounding and the 10 minute charge changes EVERYTHING.
Range isn't a problem if you can recharge in 10 minutes. That is less than
the time it takes to fill a gas tank!
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 12:43 pm, Tehben Dean wrote:
Sweet!
I guess they have changed battery suppliers. They were going to be using
Valence batteries at one point, It was putting valence in the news, I
wonder what happened?
The Altairnano batts sound pretty cool, 250 mile range, 95mph, 10 minute
charge time.
Wonder what their vehicles will cost? $$$,$$$.$$
-Tehben
On Nov 8, 2006, at 9:17 AM, MIKE WILLMON wrote:
Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
10:00 a.m. 11/07/2006 Provided by
ONTARIO, Calif., Nov 07, 2006 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Phoenix Motorcars,
exhibiting their new zero emission, all-electric, freeway-ready sports
utility truck, received substantial media attention at the SEMA show
last week. SEMA is the Specialty Equipment Market Association (
www.sema.org ) show attended by over 200,000 automobile industry
buyers.
Phoenix Motorcars introduced a zero emission, all-electric sport
utility truck, which is powered by a revolutionary Altairnano
NanoSafe(TM) battery pack (ALTI), and the truck targets the fleet
vehicle owner market. The Phoenix Motorcars sport utility truck exceeds
all specifications for a Type III ZEV, having a driving range of 130
miles, it can be recharged in less than 10 minutes and the battery pack
has a life of 12 years or more. Surprisingly, the cost to recharge the
battery pack is less than $3.00!!
The Phoenix Motorcars zero emission, all-electric sport utility truck
can cruise on the freeway at up to 95 mph while carrying 5 passengers
and a full payload. The Phoenix Motorcars Sport Utility Truck has a low
cost maintenance schedule and will be introduced in early 2007. The
Phoenix Motorcars SUV will be introduced in late 2007 with two
configurations, having a range of either 130 or 250 miles and both
configurations can be recharged in less than 10 minutes.
Phoenix Motorcars is receiving a solid market response with over 600
expressions of interest from fleet vehicle owners and great press
coverage with over 50 media briefings conducted in the past week,
including two press conferences held by the actor and environmental
activist Ed Begley Jr. An excellent media story was a lead article on
the Popular Mechanics website at: http://
www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4201003.html
"The Phoenix Motorcars Sport Utility Trucks and Vehicles astound people
because these vehicles are full sized vehicles which carry five people
at freeway speeds, unlike the public perception of an electric vehicle
which is a golf cart sized, low speed, two passenger vehicle. There is
tremendous pent up demand for a real zero emission, all-electric
vehicle and we are well positioned to satisfy this market demand,"
comments Phoenix Motorcars CEO Dan Elliott.
Phoenix Motorcars will introduce our Sport Utility Truck for the Fleet
Vehicle Market in early 2007 and plan to produce at least 500 zero
emission, all electric trucks in 2007. The SUV will be introduced in
late 2007. Vehicle orders are being taken for the Phoenix SUT now for
delivery in early 2007 and for the SUV for delivery in late 2007, at
affordable pricing.
ABOUT PHOENIX MOTORCARS, INC.
Phoenix Motorcars Inc., headquartered in Ontario, California, has been
an industry leader in the development of battery electric freeway speed
vehicles since 2001. The mission of Phoenix Motorcars is to manufacture
zero emission vehicles including Sport Utility Trucks and Sport Utility
Vehicles to reduce the toxic emissions from the largest contributor to
air pollution, personal automobiles. For additional information visit:
www.phoenixmotorcars.com .
Phoenix Motorcars Inc.
Jana White, +1-909-987-0815
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copyright Business Wire 2006
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and
the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.29/520 - Release Date: 6/11/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The bad transmission is a negative. Usually you want a good manual
tranny, not a bad automatic.
Compare the weight and the GVWR. The difference is how much of a load
the vehicle can carry. If it's a large number, you can carry lots of
batteries and get lots of range (and spend lots of money on batteries).
Personally I liked driving the Microbuses. Do you like the Vanagon?
If you like the vehicle you should consider converting it, if you can
put together a plan that will provide you with an EV that meets your
needs. Which brings us to the next question: what are your needs?
What do you need your EV to do?
And if you haven't already, browse the EV Album to get an idea of the
sorts of vehicles people have made. There's at least one Microbus and
couple of Vanagons in there.
On Nov 6, 2006, at 9:43 AM, David Roden wrote:
On 6 Nov 2006 at 11:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have an opportunity to purchase a VW Vanagon (water-cooled flat four
engine) with a bad automatic transmission for $500.
Check the weight. I may be thinking of a newer generation VW van, but
I
seem to recall that these were pretty heavy and had all the
aerodynamics of
a brick. They had about the lowest MPG among all minivans at the time.
Some successful conversions have been made of earlier VW Microbuses.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To find out what the best hitch to use, go to a Air Stream Dealer and look
at the different type of trailer hitches they have.
One day a large front wheel car pulling a Air Stream up to the Café I was
at. The hitch system was something else. It had the standard center ball
type hitch and then there were two telescoping torsion bars on both sides of
the center hitch.
There was a maze of control cables that work the brakes and lights on the
trailer.
It had electric cylinders that work like hydraulic cylinders that tighten
the whole hitch system as to make the car and trailer as one, then you
install safety pins.
I talk to the guy and he said, he can adjust the suspension air system on
the car as where the rear wheels would just come off grade.
For this towing system, the rear hitch unit had the support structure welded
to the frame, was not off the bumper supports.
Of course you have to have a front wheel vehicle for this type of towing
system.
If this hitch system is strong enough to become one with the vehicle, than
it should be able to push it with no problem.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: EV pusher Trailer
>
> On Nov 6, 2006, at 1:41 PM, Michael wrote:
>
> > Driving w/ a hitch would be lifting, so perhaps it'd be wise to balance
> > the trailer with a bit more weight on the tonge than you'd normall use.
>
> Another good catch. The torque of the drive wheels on the trailer will
> tend to lift the trailer tongue. Your proposed solution sounds like a
> good one.
>
> How about making the trailer tongue longer? Would this improve or hurt
> safety and handling?
>
> Picking the right donor vehicle would help. You want one with some
> weight forward of the front wheels.
> --
> Doug Weathers
> Las Cruces, NM, USA
> <http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The PDF data sheet indicates 10 minutes to 90%.
http://www.altairnano.com/documents/060926HOUSECARBZEV.pdf
Ken
In a message dated 11/8/2006 5:56:06 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Good point.
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 2:52 pm, Paschke, Stephen wrote:
> We heard about this on this list in a press release a few months ago.
> There was a lot of "I'll believe it when I see it."
> I still say prove it. I'm sure that is not a full charge. Maybe 80%
> or
> the top 5%?
> Remember they said "as little as".
>
>> Stephen Paschke
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The "as little as" statement assumes you have the 100kW or so charger to force
that much energy into the batteries. My PFC-20 will still take several hours
to charg that battery.
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, November 8, 2006 4:17 pm
Subject: Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
To: [email protected]
> The PDF data sheet indicates 10 minutes to 90%.
>
> http://www.altairnano.com/documents/060926HOUSECARBZEV.pdf
>
> Ken
>
>
> In a message dated 11/8/2006 5:56:06 PM Central Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Good point.
>
> On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 2:52 pm, Paschke, Stephen wrote:
> > We heard about this on this list in a press release a few months
> ago.> There was a lot of "I'll believe it when I see it."
> > I still say prove it. I'm sure that is not a full charge.
> Maybe 80%
> > or
> > the top 5%?
> > Remember they said "as little as".
> >
> >> Stephen Paschke
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
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If you can spin the wheels in 4th, you don't need 2nd or 3rd.
(Unless you are in a long distance ultra-efficiency type event)
Leave it in 4th and let the Zilla do the series/parallel switch.
Mark
> From: steve clunn
>
> as for the shifting gears and what not , with a 2k
> zilla and the
> motors in series you will spin the wheels in 4th from a
> stand still so
> taking off in 2nd or 3ed just means shifting soon .
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks.
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 2:52 pm, MIKE WILLMON wrote:
Look back through the archives at subjects on Ceramic and NanoTech
batteries.
Here's another press release about:
Altairnano Demonstrates Excellent Battery Performance at SEMA Show
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/061107/20061107005720.html?.v=1
The detail not mentioned is $$$,$$$.$$
I didn't read the above referenced subjects enough and pricing may have
been mentioned.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, November 8, 2006 1:24 pm
Subject: Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why haven't we heard of this battery technology before?
That's astounding and the 10 minute charge changes EVERYTHING.
Range isn't a problem if you can recharge in 10 minutes. That is
less
than the time it takes to fill a gas tank!
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
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Hi All,
I have been taking short runs with the electric bike and have come to a
question about the standing voltage readings I am getting.
Specs. Trojan T145 floodies
running a 48 volt system, and charging in parallel 24 volt string.
I have a Curtis "battery fuel gauge" which I think is actually just a
minimum recording volt meter.
After a 5 to 10 mile ride, the "fuel gauge" reads anywhere from 1/3 to 3/4
full. But when I read the voltage with a DMM I read 80 to 95% charged based
on a chart that I downloaded from Trojan's website.
I understand that the instructions are to not measure the voltage just after
a charge or a discharge. I expected that to be because just after a charge
the voltage would be overly high and that just after the discharge that it
would be falsely low.
My current draw is 80-125 amps as I cruise and can surge to 300+ on
acceleration. I expect that I am getting bit by Puekerts effect on the fuel
gauge. My basic question is does a heavy discharge cause an overly high
standing voltage reading? I have taken the readings anywhere from 15
minutes to the following day with similar results.
respectfully,
John Neiswanger
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Siamese motors are HACKED!
see: http://www.hackaday.com/2006/11/07/siamese-electric-motors/ Picture of
two motors siamesed!
I stumbled upon this site when looking for graphics on cell phones today.
(Class project on cheating)
Take a look it's pretty cool outside of the EV world to be considered COOL!
Pedroman
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--- Begin Message ---
And a bit more Tesla news - I just tuned in to their blog and saw
that the "2007 1/2" model year is now sold out. I assume that means
that the second hundred Roadsters are spoken for...
Jay
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Hey look, I guess everybody can use "magnetic free energy" to power
their EVs now.
Fox News' Neil Cavuto featured it, so it must be true!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV4Ja5Cjtvc
I think the nation is a bit stupider for having watched this.
Danny
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--- Begin Message ---
Correct.
Why would you want to do that?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of mike golub
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 4:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
but if I'm on the same phase...I'll just get the 120
vac...Right?
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Without knowing it they are on the same phase or
> not,
> you have no clue whether you are going to get 120
> or 240V! when using two diode bridges.
>
> NOTE that with each cord feeding its own diode
> bridge
> (a great idea to avoid current flowing out one cord
> when plugging in the other) then each of the two
> bridges will provide the highest voltage it sees to
> the + output of the bridge and the lowest voltage to
> the - output of any bridge.
>
> With the two bridges' outputs connected + to + and -
> to -
> they can be supplying the same rectified 120V if the
> two circuits are on the same phase.
> However, if they are different phases, then only one
> diode of each bridge conducts, from the highest of
> the
> two 120V phases to the + and from the lowest of the
> two phases to the - output.
> All other 3 diodes in each bridge will block.
> This means that the two phases are added and you get
> rectified 240V, approximately 340V, from the bridge.
>
> NOTE that the bridges must be 400V or higher types
> or
> they will fail.
>
> It depends on your charger if it can take the 340V
> input or will fail as soon as you plug into two
> different phases.
>
> NOTE there are so many failure cases with using two
> sockets combined at the same time, that I would
> advice
> against it and use appropriate outlets and plugs to
> get the power you want and that is safely available!
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
> http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD#
> 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 9:56 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging
>
>
> The block heaters typically have the 20amp breaker
> where the outlet is. If not you can walk about 30
> feet
> to the clearly marked box. Most outlets are
> numbered,
> and are clearly written which outlet is which. So
> sometimes you can walk the 30 feet look into the
> circuit breaker box and see that they are both on
> separate circuits and if they are on different
> "phases".
>
> But the question remains is it ok to make something
> universal that would use to extension cords to
> separate diode bridges. I know each will have its
> own 20 amp breaker, but not always on the same
> phase.
>
> thanks
>
> --- steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "mike golub" >
> > > I was wondering if I could connect each outlet
> to
> > a
> > > separate diode bridge and then parallel the
> output
> > for
> > > my 120v dc battery pack. (Take the +168v from
> each
> > > bridge and each -168v from each bridge, and
> > applying
> > > them to my batteries).
> > >
> > > Can that work?
> > >
> > Only if each out let is on the same leg and if
> they
> > both or on different
> > brakers. You can tell if they are on the same leg
> > buy using a meter and
> > putting it across the two hot leads , if it reads
> 0
> > then your on the same
> > leg , if not it will read 240 ( I would test all
> > combinations incase the out
> > let is miss wired ) . Telling if it has its own
> > braker is going to be
> > harder. How many watts dose a block heater use ?
> > another way around this is
> > with a isolation transformer. This will also let
> you
> > plug into 240 . The way
> > I hooked this one for 240 was to have the ac go
> > through the ac part of the
> > bridge rectifier , then through the input of the
> > isolation transformer , the
> > other end of the input goes to the other 240 ac
> wire
> > . You'll need another
> > bridge on the out put of the isolation transformer
> > and both bridges have
> > there out puts going to the batteries . I would
> > also not just use 1 bridge
> > but 2 or 3 , and heat sinks and fans .
> > Steve Clunn ,,,, my spell checker says braker is
> not
> > a word hmmmm .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > thanks,
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Arthur W. Matteson wrote:
> You said "heatsink temperature" to begin with. This, then, changes
> the calculations.
I'm sorry; trying to write quickly often means writing less clearly. I
was trying to provide an example to show how to derate the advertised
specs based on the limitations imposed by real heatsinks. It was
oversimplified; but the things exaggerated were compensated for by the
things left out, so I think the end result was pretty close to reality.
> If a 600V part were used, the loss would be lower...
> Let's consider an IGBT suited for the situation: the CM600HU-12F.
Yes; that's a much better choice for a low-voltage high-current
controller. Let's go through a more thorough analysis. The relevant data
sheet specs are:
Vce(sat) = 2.2v max at 600a, 25 deg.C
= 1.6v typ at 600a, 25 deg.C
= 1.6v typ at 600a, 125 deg.C (interesting; no change w. temp.)
Rth(jc) = 0.088 deg.C/w max (thermal resistance, junction to case)
Rth(cs) = 0.02 deg.C/w typ (thermal resistance, case to heatsink)
> Let's go with the worst kind of heatsink, the 0.15*C/W one I listed.
Actually, that's a pretty fancy, expensive, high performance heatsink.
It's built for clean, dry, indoor environments where you want the
smallest possible size for a given amount of cooling. You need more fan
power because of the tight air passages and restrictive air flow.
A more practical automotive heatsink would have bigger fins and
passageways, so it wouldn't be plugged by bugs or leaves. It would have
thicker fins, so it won't corrode away from salt and water. And it would
be physically larger, to require a less aggresive fan.
(To be honest, I'd try using an aluminum transaxle case as my heatsink.
It's there already, has lots of surface area, has circulating oil inside
to spread the heat better, doesn't need a cooling fan, etc.)
> let's start with the worst ambient temperature of 50*C, and
> limit the junction to 100*C.
>
> Power = 50*C / (0.258*C/W) = 194W
> Current = 194W / 1.38V = 140A
Here's my try at the same calculation.
Rth(total) = Rth(jc) + Rth(cs) + Rth(sa)
= 0.088 + 0.02 + 0.15
= 0.258 deg.C/w
Power = 50 deg.C / 0.258 deg.C/w = 194 watts
These are the same numbers you had (great minds think alike :-)
But, we are both mixing typical and maximum units. This is acceptable
because it's unlikely they will all be at their maximum limits at the
same time.
Vce(sat) = at 100 deg.C
The Powerex data sheet has a graph that shows typical Vce(sat) for
various currents at 25 deg.C and 125 deg.C. Interpolating, I'd guess the
typical Vce(sat) = 1.1v at 140a and 100 deg.C. The ratio between
Vce(sat) max/typ is 2.2v/1.6v = 1.375. So, I'd guess Vce(sat)max = 1.1v
x 1.375 = 1.5125v.
Current = 194W / 1.5125V = 128A
That's a little more conservative than your guess (140a) but we're still
in the same ballpark.
> Disclaimer: 140A does not include switching loss.
Agreed. I didn't count it on my earlier crude analysis either. This part
has a 400 nsec rise time, and 250 nsec fall time. At 20 KHz, its
switching losses are as much as its resistive losses. Your 140a is
halved to 70a continuous because half the heat is produced by switching
losses.
But, the motor current is greater than the transistor current. If this
part was being switched at a 50% duty cycle, that 70a average produces
140a average motor current. This is why I left out switching losses.
They are hard to calculate, confusing, and in the end you come back
pretty much to where you started.
> So even with an undersized heatsink in the middle of a bad summer,
> you can still get 140A out of the thing.
In other words, we basically agree, i.e. that this 600a module is only
good enough for a 128a (or 140a if you like) controller.
> If I were building the controller... limit the current based on the
> heatsink temperature.
Of course. All controllers do this. If they didn't, they'd *die* the
first time someone tried to climb a hill on a hot day.
> I would also choose a heatsink that is *appropriate* to the situation.
Yes, though that's a big challenge. Notice that most controller
manufacturers "dodge the bullet" and supply their controllers *without*
heatsinks, as they are big and expensive. Beginners tend to seriously
underestimate the amount of heatsinking needed. The end result is that
controllers frequently overheat, and die early.
It's all about design margins. How optimistic/pessimistic should you be?
"Pollyanna" buys a 600amp module and builds 600amp controllers. They are
cheap and powerful, but only work for a while before blowing up. Her
company fails from warranty returns and poor reliability.
"Grumpy" buys a 600amp module and builds a 100amp controller. It works
forever, but is so expensive for the power it produces that no one buys
it. His company fails from lack of sales.
I'd say you can safely get about 1/3 the rated current out of a module.
A 600amp module is adequate for a 200amp controller; roughly equivalent
to a Curtis 1221C-7401 controller (which is rated 250a for 5 minutes,
150a for 1 hour).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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