EV Digest 6123
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Solar EV power
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Correction...was Multiple NEDRA records
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Beware of this EV supplier/Customer Service
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Multiple NEDRA Records and Production Class
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Curtis Sepex motor controllers up on Aussie Ebay
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Beware of this EV supplier
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: precharge using lightbulb at 144v?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) 'lectric leo on ebay
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Curtis whine question vs. Raptor condensation issues
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Plan B for SepEx Motor Controller
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Solar EV power can work
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Batteries on bicycles
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Correction...was Multiple NEDRA records
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Batteries on bicycles
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Solar EV power
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Cheap light EV's and Re: Solar EV power can work
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 'lectric leo on ebay
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) SOlar concentrators (was: Solar EV power)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Cheap light EV's and Re: Solar EV power can work
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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You might want to have a look at the Energy Innovations web site.
They've been working on a 25x concentrator.
http://www.idealab.com/frame.php?referer=/press_room/&url=http://www.energyinnovations.com/
Bill Dennis
Ev Performance (Robert Chew) wrote:
Hi,
All cool ideas. The silicon theoretical max efficiency solar cell is
approaching its limit of around 27%. Thats for mono crystalline. But
interestingly enough, if one could build a concentrator that could
provide
1.5-2 suns onto a solar cell and have some form of active cooling on the
back of the cell nd make it economical then, it would be very
commercially
viable. Hmmm...might do some research.
For example, have a tedlar sheet of solar cells on say some arbitrary
surface and a laminating layer, instead of 3mm glass which is the
norm. this
lamiting layer could have some tricky optics sort of manufactured in and
provide a slight magnification to the solar cell beneath.
If this can all be packaged the same or even slightly thicker than the
standard module then that would make solar cells on cars somewhat more
realistic.
Cheers
On 11/11/06, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Both Peter and Robert are correct, I was being generous and keeping it
simple.
17% is the highest I have heard avail and 21% highest I heard in
research.
The 5 hours of sun number considers that the there is really an average
of 5 hours of full sun so that people can multiply it times the panel
rateing to size installations. We get way more than that in summer.
Yes a MPPT is assumed.
Peter mentions the thermal aspect, and the dust, and I have seen both
these effects. I live across from a field with a very active church
where 100's of people park in the field 3 ties a week. The panels (and
my car :-( ) are perpetually dirty. They are essentially an open face
photo transistor .
So Here is a thought. If you can keep the panels cool, you can
concentrate the solar up to about 50x (on mono-crystalline cells).
I always wanted to get a single row of cells, put them in a "solarhart"
type collector, water cool them and track the sun. The heated water
would be for domestic use. The problem is of course that useful domestic
water temp far exceeds useful panel temperature so the only choice I can
see would be the heating of a swimming pool.( and I don't have one of
those yet)
Realistically I got about 6000 kwh last year and 21*150W panels * 5
hours * 365 days is 5748 kwh. Which shouldn't surprise, the number comes
from interpolated measurements.
Lots of info, I love wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_energy
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On Nov 10, 2006, at 7:05 AM, John Wayland wrote:
It was probably too late and I should have been sleeping....I goofed
when I wrote this:
The new highest voltage classes are now 'A' at 241V-300V, 'A2' at
341V-348V (incorrectly listed at the NEDRA page as 300V-348V), and
'A3' at 349V and up.
My error was that 'A2' at 341V-348V. It of course, should have read
'A2' at 301V-348V.
The voltage levels generally increase by 24 volts in each of the lower
classes, then 48 volts stepping up to B, then 60 volts stepping up to
A. I am curious as to why the voltage step from A to A2 drops back to a
48 volt step, especially in light of the ever increasing voltages being
used.
Paul "neon" G.
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I agree again as it is reasonable to wait a short while for low
demand items but not over a month, if it's a cost issue I would
certainly pay more. Customer service is not rocket science and most
businesses would be shocked to know how many people don't do business
with them or do less business due to poor service. Also they should
consider that their very poor or non-existent communication travels
fast among others and their friends.. At times it's beyond frustrating.
On a more positive note I have done business with several suppliers
and I would like to mention that my experience with EV source has
been excellent. Ryan provides professional service, helpful answers
and prompt follow up. I would recommend him as a supplier and place
him at the top of my experiences so far as a multi-parts supplier.
His model is one others should follow.
Mark
On Nov 10, 2006, at 11:46 AM, Mike Sandman wrote:
MARK DUTKO wrote:
Thanks for the info, if he can't respond to three e-mails and four
v-mails over three weeks, and can't process or confirm an order,
then he should find another business to be in. They only have an
answering service and it's the worst customer service I have ever
encountered on the web or otherwise.
i am having the same problem with another (very well know) EV
supplier about an adapter order. it's been three weeks and i can't
get any response. i don't want to mention names, but man...we
really need some more reliable suppliers. getting this adapter
ordered is the most frustrating thing i have done in a while.
as a business owner myself (not EV related) i am with you mark,
these suppliers need to get busy or get out!
my two (inflammatory) cents.
;)
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On Nov 10, 2006, at 1:06 AM, Chip Gribben wrote:
I would suggest people build and race cars and bikes. Take a look at
the Records page and build a vehicle you feel can compete in a
particular class. We would love to see more vehicles on the Records
Page.
I did notice one thing with the new rules. There appears to be no
street class that would apply to a VW based kit car, unless the body
happened to be a replica of a production car (in that case it appears
it would fit in the XS class.)
Paul "neon" G.
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At 10:21 AM 10/11/06 -0800, Roger wrote:
> What sort of motors are these set up for, <snip>
Your best bet is to get a motor & controller together as a package,
since the controller is programmable and will have been tuned for a
specific motor.
Thanks Roger, that is the info I was looking for. Thanks also to Cor for
trying to help, but I was looking for the more specific info that Roger has
provided.
The Ebay controllers were of unknown condition and "assumed to work".
Auctions have ended, one went for $168Aus, the other for $156.50 Aus,
around $125US and $117US. No mention of history or motors, so probably
better that I held off then.
Thanks again
Regards
[Technik] James
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--- Begin Message ---
Running a web-based business is only more difficult when you don't
understand how to manage customer service and don't provide proper
content and a good customer experience. My previous job was VP of
product development of a fortune 50 doing all e-commerce and customer
service platforms. I can tell you that there are MANY home based
businesses that do great business with well done basic web sites.
Why? Because they set up a good system to manage customer service
and expectations through good communication up front, his is not that
difficult if you have reasonable business and people skills. I run a
business from my home by myself that does large gross numbers and I
manage a very large inventory with no problems. The EV parts world is
not that big and complex and I would not be surprised if someone
comes along and does it really well. Thank goodness for a free
economy... Rant Over..
M
On Nov 10, 2006, at 12:12 PM, Mike wrote:
MARK DUTKO wrote:
Thanks for the info, if he can't respond to three e-mails and
four v-mails over three weeks, and can't process or confirm an
order, then he should find another business to be in. They only
have an answering service and it's the worst customer service I
have ever encountered on the web or otherwise.
i am having the same problem with another (very well know) EV
supplier about an adapter order. it's been three weeks and i
can't get any response. i don't want to mention names, but
man...we really need some more reliable suppliers. getting this
adapter ordered is the most frustrating thing i have done in a while.
Hi Mike,
Yes, I brought up this very subject last year and the list, for the
most part, jumped up and down saying I was being unfair. 'They'
said it was hard and expensive to run a web based business, and
that no one really buys anything on the web anyway. Well, I think
'they' are in for a rude awakening as the 20 and 30 somethings out
there get into our young industry. Some day soon a supplier will
marry old school customer service with new school technologies and,
some day soon, our current suppliers, who prefer to 'do business
the old fashioned way', will go out of business the old fashioned way.
I know this from first had experience because I work for a company
that's doing it in another industry.
Another Mike
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
Electric Motorcycle Listserv
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/listserv
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On Nov 10, 2006, at 10:11 AM, mike golub wrote:
currently I precharge my 120vdc curtis system with a
25w 120v light bulb.
If I increase the voltage to 132v or 144v, will the
light bulb still work?
I would think so, but it will be harder on the bulb. I'd use one of the
long life bulbs or a 130 volt bulb. The bulb should only see full pack
voltage for an instant when precharge starts. As the input caps charge
they provide a rapidly increasing voltage drop, reducing the voltage
across the bulb. If you precharge every every time you start the EV it
would be handy to have some type of tattle tale circuit to warn you if
the bulb burned out (and carry a spare.)
In my EV the 120 volt pack remains precharged by the bulb and a relay
cuts power to KSI when the main contactor is open. Because of this, the
bulb generally only has about a 5 volt drop across it. When I first
precharge (re-precharge?) the pack for any reason I do so by
reinstalling the bulb. I can watch the bulb when I install it to see it
smoothly fade out (telling me it didn't blow.) Unless something goes
wrong the bulb never sees full pack voltage in daily operation.
Paul "neon" G.
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1980 Renault Electric Leo, $358.28 WOW
Philadelphia...
Ebay - 160050313915
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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On Nov 10, 2006, at 8:10 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
The Curtis only appears to be sealed. It actually leaks!
The only ways to keep water out of electronics in a car are
hermetically sealed packages, potting, thick conformal coatings, and
packages with no obvious holes (best to worst).
I had one more idea. A small bottle of dry compressed air (or other gas
like CO2) with a little regulator designed to maintain around 1/2 psi.
This could be plumbed with a small plastic or rubber tube and feed in
using one of the threaded adjustment holes. With a slight positive
pressure inside it wouldn't suck in outside air as it cools. (if I
understand CO2's properties correctly it would help slightly with
cooling too)
Paul "neon" G.
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--- Begin Message ---
Chet Fields wrote:
> > If the motor really is shunt wound, or at least has a shunt field,
>
> Is there some way using a multimeter that I could verify this?
Well, a shunt field means it is connected in parallel with the armature.
If you have a single pair of field terminals, and neither are connected
electrically to the armature terminals then its probably not a shunt
winding.
You could try applying a low voltage (like 6V-12V) to the armature
(only) and see if the motor spins up; if it does, then there is a good
chance that there is an internal shunt field in addition to the one you
have external access to since the motor could not spin without some sort
of powered field (or residual magnetism in the unpowered field...)
> Very interesting. So, you are saying that I could apply some
> fraction or perhaps all of the pack voltage to the motor and
> it basically would spin up to its 'base' speed. At this point
> it is drawing very little current because of the back EMF? As
> the load increases, (i.e. letting out the clutch) it will then
> draw more current?
Right. A shunt motor will try to maintain a constant speed with a given
voltage applied. Kind of the wound field equivalent to a permanent
magnet motor.
> How would I 'back off' the armature current? This would only
> be under load correct?
Downshift to a lower gear, or if you have a means of controlling the
amount of voltage applied, reduce the voltage.
> I did a search and couldn't find the high voltage/low
> amperage controllers but there are several low
> voltage/high amperage ones. Does anyone know of any off
> the shelf ones?
Unfortuantely, it is most likely that you would have to use one of the
normal high voltage controllers, which are capable of a few hundred
amps. This is why you would need to take care to ensure that *you*
don't allow the controller to overload the field, since it would be
unusual to be able to adjust the current limit on a 400-500A controller
down to as little as 20-25A.
> This vehicle already has 2 large inductors in series with the
> armature winding, one for each 200Amp power circuit.
This should be fine, yes. At higher frequency you can get by with less
inductance, but more isn't going to hurt in this case.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Cool! I want to see your low drag EV weighing 1500lbs. I agree, most
conversions on this list are heavy. I mean, that cool also, however, light =
cheap and possibly greater range using standard components.
The only problem i guess with lightweight or very small cars is that
everyone else on the road is driving large cars, making people think that
small cars are not safe. If we all sort of down grade a little, loss a few
pounds of our bellies, drive slightly smaller cars, it would make EV's a
little cheaper to convert, using generic components.
Solar is cool, however, not exactly practical for retrofitting onto an
existing car as my thesis will describe. Its definately cool for ground up
EV's. If only those damn things were cheaper we would all be doing it.
Anyway,
Bye
On 11/11/06, Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Just wanted to add another datapoint on solar power charging EVs...
At the World Fair in Paris in 1878, Augustin Mouchot demonstrated his
"Sun Machine", by using it to power a half-horsepower engine running a
printing press.
His Sun Machine used a 20-square-meter parabolic concentrating
reflector that boiled water and produced steam...
So, 20 sq.meters producing about 375 watts? At about the same latitude
as Washington State? (OK, probably less wet weather in Paris <hehe>)
Subtract losses in generator? Maybe source better tech for reflective
surface and steam engine than 130 years ago? (So maybe slightly better
efficiencies?)
eg
http://www.reflectechsolar.com/products.htm
http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/mbsteam.htm
Yah, maybe only 2% efficient overall, but cheap to build, maintain and
replace vs PV. OK, yah, Noisier for sure, `less yer a train buff, in
which case the added "music" may be a bonus?
:)
tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Robert, Peter and All,
> Cool set up Robert.
> To make solar EV's work, EVer's will like you
> have to go to lighter EV's. As most here have leadmine
> conversions, they can't reasonably do it except for a soilar
> carport.
> Let's take a look at a better choice like my
> 1500lb, low drag built as an EV which really is the only way
> to judge.
> It has 40sq' of roof, hood that can be used.
> Using Peter's. others eff figures, lets say 100wt/sq'm. That
> gives about 400wt/hr in full, noon sun into the batteries.
> Most area's get between 4 and 8 hrs of full
> sun worth of light each day for a fixed angle system, not
> tracking.
> Let's take the middle of that range, 6 hrs
> x's 400wts is 2.4kw.
> My EV should get about 60wthr/mile at 40 mph
> and 120wthr/mile at 65 mph projected. Let's take 55 mph at
> 100wthrs/mile as a good number.
> With 100wthr/mile and 2.4 kw available each
> day would get mine about 24 mpd at 55 mph!!
> Using a smaller batt pack, 50 miles worth
> instead of 100 miles range, would increase solar range even
> more from less rolling drag.
> One could build a 500 lb solar car with the
> same surface area and go farther, faster if one wanted to as
> solar racers did about 400mpd?
> For many people, this could easily work so
> stop saying it won't, instead show those how it can work.
>
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Solar EV power
> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:46:21 +1100
>
> >The little fiat with solar panel belongs to me.
> >
> >The top speed of the vehicle is low,and my driving
> >conditions is low seed, below 60 km/hr so drag is not such
> >a huge consideration.
> >
> >And also from a full days charging, i use my homebuilt
> >boost dc dc convertor to step up the voltage of my panels
> >to nominal 72.
> >
> >I get around 4kms.
> >
> >My car does from the batteries, 130-150wh /km (not AC). I
> >have 3 lots of 55 watt suntech modules on the vehicle. Over
> >here in downuner, there is plenty of sun.
> >
> >that 4km's is more than the distance i drive everyday from
> >my home to the shopping center where i park to catch a
> >train (3km's). ALthough it is great to be able to plug my
> >car in with the installed electric vehicle charging bay
> >that the shopping center as kind enough to install.
> >
> >Solar panels on cars depends on individual situation. I
> >personally think it is ideal to have a grid connected
> >system at home supplying power to the grid and then use the
> >grid to charge the car. But hey, solar panels on cars make
> >it look cool and futuristic!
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >
> >On 10/11/06, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sure, if you only drove it 15 miles or less once a week.
> >>
> >> Of course if you only go somewhere once a week, it might
> >> be cheaper to take a cab.
> >>
> >> > If you only drove the car every few days couldn't it
> >> > completely recharge it?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:42 pm, Michael wrote:
> >> >>> A little Fiat with a solar panel on top. Maybe you
> >> >>> could ask his how he
> >> >>> did it. Christie
> >> >>
> >> >> I'd ask why he bothered. <vbg> Though I suppose an
> >> >> extra mile a day could
> >> >> be worthwhile.
> >> >
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Hi Lock,
> For example, 98% of North Americans might agree that jamming your
> vehicle in your crotch then wiggling around a lot is not how they wish
> to commute?
I doubt that your colorful description of seating on a bicycle has
much to do with the issue. Bicycle seats can be very comfortable.
Besides, most people like to sit, more than stand up, during their
commute. Maybe a recumbent bicycle is an idea?
The biggest problem I see is that most roads in the USA (I have no
experience with Mexico or Canada) ar not designed to accommodate
bicycles, so even though they have the same right to the road as
cars, they are often marginalized and people find it scary to ride
at approximately 10 MPH while tons of steel whizz by at high speed.
Another big issue is the design of the cities.
If the neighborhoods were designed to integrate living, school,
shopping and where possible even work (not heavy industry, but all
desk jobs) within the perimeter of the neighborhood, preferably
the school and shops in the center, then you would see typical
commute distances drop to below 1 mile and with good road-design,
the bicycle could be the primary means of transport.
It is in every major city and high-density suburb in the
Netherlands and the weather is not much better than in the USA.
In the USA however the building code enforces the creation of
large areas exclusive for living, other areas for shopping,
schools away from that all and work at an even more distant place.
No wonder people find themselves driving around all day to get
where they need to be. Not too many people have the presence of
mind to protest this development or even see the consequences
of the choices made.
There is a relatively new movement to go back to "liveable cities"
where the old ideas of "Main Street" with shops and school in
the middle of the neighborhood are re-applied.
That is a very promising movement for sub-urban USA.
It would provide a huge savings of time, money, pollution and
even remove the necessity of car ownership to have the landscape
redesigned to fit around humans instead of being driven by
housing developers and traffic engineers.
Today's situation is that distances and road design are not
favoring the use of non-motorised transportation, so most
would-be non-motorists are scared away.
If you do not believe me, then ask random 10 people if they are
able to ride a bicycle and of those that can, ask if they would
ride into downtown (or another location a few miles away).
Now don't get me wrong - I think that bicycling is great and
actually have about equal amount of miles by bicycle as by car
in my life, both around 100,000.
Last year I bought a second-hand e-bike that is on the EV Album
(Schwinn Sierra) http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/720
This is my first choice for trips in town en even for my 10 mile
one-way commute, to provide me with the exercise that I otherwise
would need to pay for in a gym.
However, since it takes almost an hour to commute one-way, the
car is giving me a substantial time saving.
Note that I always bike in my daily attire, I have no neon-
colored spandex or fancy shoes; I dress as usual and simply
decide whether I take the car or the bike.
Occasionally I may work up a sweat but not very often, with
the throttle control of the e-bike I can select if I want to
do most of the work myself or let the Currie motor work for me.
Usually I pedal continuously and provide the bulk of the motive
power, only at ramps and at take-off from a traffic light where
there are many cars behind me, I will use the motor to give me
a boost. And to combat a strong headwind.
The really cool thing is that it provides a lot of power when I
want, helping me get home quick and effortless ride into a
headwind, yet the batteries are only 12Ah 24V so a maximum of
about 0.4 kWh is required to recharge them fully.
That means a 20 miles commute at 2c worth of electricity or a
0.2c per mile. (Most days I do not nearly run the batteries
empty, but this is just a worst-case.)
Try that with gas - even at $2 per gal you would need a 1000mpg
vehicle to get to that number!
BTW, to avoid getting your trousers in the chain, there is that
simple device called a trouser clamp. I have one for every bike
with open chain.
My wife and son still have their Dutch bikes, which have a
fully enclosed chain, so the problem is non-existent.
Indeed, folding bikes can be an asset in public transportation,
but to ride them long-distance is a nightmare because they
have small wheels and other compromises that remove the ease
provided by quality bicycles for long trips.
I ride my bike to work, then park it in front, next to the
entrance and in plain view of the front desk person.
This is for many reasons, main one is safety - it won't be
stolen when in view. The other big one is that everybody
entering or leaving the building to head into the traffic
jam at the 101 or 880 will see that there are alternatives,
but not if they first decide to live more than 50 miles
from work because they like to live in the mountains.
Further, it is an investment in a sustainable transportation.
Even if the foreign oil supply would be cut completely and
nobody would think about driving a car except in emergency,
I can still get on my bike and go everywhere.
In case the price of electricity would explode as well, I
can even go as far as thinking about whether I want to
plug it in or not - but even at 10 times the rate, I would
be talking about two dimes...
To compare scooter and bike: have you tried to keep up with
a bicycle, where both of you only used human powere to keep
the vehicles up to speed?
Did you work up a sweat?
I know for a fact that pushing a scooter ("step" in Dutch)
will cost a lot more power than riding a bike.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to mount my bike to go home.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
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HI Paul,
I wasn't on the board when the voltage classes were set, but the limits
probably
had something to do with the high voltage limits of avialable high power
controlers.
FT.
> [Original Message]
> From: Paul G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 11/10/2006 3:02:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Correction...was Multiple NEDRA records
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2006, at 7:05 AM, John Wayland wrote:
>
> > It was probably too late and I should have been sleeping....I goofed
> > when I wrote this:
> >
> >> The new highest voltage classes are now 'A' at 241V-300V, 'A2' at
> >> 341V-348V (incorrectly listed at the NEDRA page as 300V-348V), and
> >> 'A3' at 349V and up.
> >
> >
> > My error was that 'A2' at 341V-348V. It of course, should have read
> > 'A2' at 301V-348V.
>
> The voltage levels generally increase by 24 volts in each of the lower
> classes, then 48 volts stepping up to B, then 60 volts stepping up to
> A. I am curious as to why the voltage step from A to A2 drops back to a
> 48 volt step, especially in light of the ever increasing voltages being
> used.
>
> Paul "neon" G.
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roger
Some years ago Ontario did come up with their own def.of power-assist
bike. Diff.from the Feds. Only to define a vehicle that was banned :(
But for purposes of the new 3yr. "pilot test", Ontario threw out their
def.and went with the Fed.def. :)
The Fed def. requires pedals, and muscle power, but the two are not
tied together :-))
Search Fed Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations here for "power-assisted
bicycle":
http://tinyurl.com/883cf
tks
L
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lock Hughes wrote:
>
> > That's because my "bike" ("bi-cycle" aka "two-wheeler") can be
> kicked,
> > easily and comfortably...
>
> You might want to research Ontario's motor vehicle
> ligislation/definitions quite carefully. Here in BC, the
> motor-assisted
> cycle laws quite clearly exclude exactly what you are contemplating
> on
> two grounds; first, they specifically state that the vehicle must be
> capable of being propelled by muscle power, using the pedals;
> secondly,
> power-assisted scooters (electric or otherwise) sit-down or stand-up
> scooters are specifically *not* considered cycles and are illegal to
> operate on any sidewalk or public roadway.
>
> <http://www.icbc.com/licensing/macPU.asp>
>
> <http://www.icbc.com/licensing/motorized_scootersPU.asp>
>
> I would expect that if you dig deeply enough, you may find that
> Ontario's definitions and regualtiosn don't stray very far from what
> BC has already implemented...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
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So there are companys specifically making the air cleaners and you
install them right?
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 1:43 pm, Roland Wiench wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
Do you guys design your own equipment?
Mechanical engineers do the design on the mechanical units. In some
cases,
we design the electrical installation.
We also have install smaller units that are design as a factory un
assemble
units which pipe fitters and iron works assemble.
One company that makes these units is the Binks Company that make a
similar
to the water curtain unit that we install for painting aircraft.
Roland
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
`Couple of things...
1) Recent message from the [SOLAR] (Concentrators) list:
--- Scott Van Kirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 08:50:25 -0700
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> From: "Scott Van Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [SOLAR] Re: Converted Fiberglass Satelite dish (Tobias
> Gogolin)
> I just had a chance to talk to some people at spectrolab at Solar
> Power
> 2006 in San Jose. They told me their chips cost $.50/kw at 500 solar
> concentrations. Their minimum order is something like $5000, though
> sometimes you can order individual cast offs or goof ups.
> -Scott
> _______________________________________________
> Solar-concentrator mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.cichlid.com/mailman/listinfo/solar-concentrator
> Problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) And from the Spectrolab site, here:
http://www.spectrolab.com/prd/terres/cell-main.htm
"Spectrolab has continued to produce world-record concentrator cells,
the latest of which is the 36.9% in 2003 and 37.3% in 2004 (press
release). Spectrolab is currently funded by NREL to produce a 41%
concentrator cell under the High Performance Photovoltaics program."
Finally (OK, three things <g>), "available" product here:
http://www.spectrolab.com/prd/terres/q2.asp
Need to confirm that $.50/kw figure <smile>
Kits available here too:
http://www.spectrolab.com/DataSheets/TerCel/PV_Concentrator_Module.pdf
500 suns onto their 4cm2 module might be four large fresnels?
Maybe four of these 260mmx260mm lenses, tiled together as a larger
square but "bent" at the joins sortof, onto one focal point, for less
than $100US?:
http://www.3dlens.com/shop/largefresnellens.php
Amazing stuff "coming down the pipe"!
:)
tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian
--- "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> All cool ideas. The silicon theoretical max efficiency solar cell is
> approaching its limit of around 27%. Thats for mono crystalline. But
> interestingly enough, if one could build a concentrator that could
> provide
> 1.5-2 suns onto a solar cell and have some form of active cooling on
> the
> back of the cell nd make it economical then, it would be very
> commercially
> viable. Hmmm...might do some research.
>
> For example, have a tedlar sheet of solar cells on say some arbitrary
> surface and a laminating layer, instead of 3mm glass which is the
> norm. this
> lamiting layer could have some tricky optics sort of manufactured in
> and
> provide a slight magnification to the solar cell beneath.
>
> If this can all be packaged the same or even slightly thicker than
> the
> standard module then that would make solar cells on cars somewhat
> more
> realistic.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> On 11/11/06, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Both Peter and Robert are correct, I was being generous and
> keeping it
> > simple.
> >
> > 17% is the highest I have heard avail and 21% highest I heard in
> research.
> >
> > The 5 hours of sun number considers that the there is really an
> average
> > of 5 hours of full sun so that people can multiply it times the
> panel
> > rateing to size installations. We get way more than that in summer.
> >
> > Yes a MPPT is assumed.
> >
> > Peter mentions the thermal aspect, and the dust, and I have seen
> both
> > these effects. I live across from a field with a very active church
> > where 100's of people park in the field 3 ties a week. The panels
> (and
> > my car :-( ) are perpetually dirty. They are essentially an open
> face
> > photo transistor .
> >
> > So Here is a thought. If you can keep the panels cool, you can
> > concentrate the solar up to about 50x (on mono-crystalline cells).
> > I always wanted to get a single row of cells, put them in a
> "solarhart"
> > type collector, water cool them and track the sun. The heated
> water
> > would be for domestic use. The problem is of course that useful
> domestic
> > water temp far exceeds useful panel temperature so the only choice
> I can
> > see would be the heating of a swimming pool.( and I don't have one
> of
> > those yet)
> >
> > Realistically I got about 6000 kwh last year and 21*150W panels * 5
> > hours * 365 days is 5748 kwh. Which shouldn't surprise, the number
> comes
> > from interpolated measurements.
> >
> >
> > Lots of info, I love wikipedia
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_energy
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Hi Robert and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Solar EV power can work
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:24:42 +1100
>Cool! I want to see your low drag EV weighing 1500lbs.
http://www.evproduction.org/wiki/index.php?title=Progress_Pics
I
>agree, most conversions on this list are heavy. I mean,
>that cool also, however, light = cheap and possibly greater
>range using standard components.
And smaller less costly components too of proven
reliability. Not to mention great range from much smaller
battery packs dropping battery costs by 2/3's vs a 120vdc
conversion! It's the real way to get cost effective EV's.
And eventually, we will have the Sunrise gliders to
buy which will really be great, giving up to 200 mile range
on lead batts if one wants with 65% battery weight!!
Personally I'd go for 120vdc of t-125's for about 100-150
mile range in it and a small gen is probably what I'll put
in mine unless Li-ions drop a lot or Ni-cads don't fall into
my hands cheaply.
>
>The only problem i guess with lightweight or very small
>cars is that everyone else on the road is driving large
>cars, making people think that small cars are not safe. If
>we all sort of down grade a little, loss a few pounds of
>our bellies, drive slightly smaller cars, it would make
>EV's a little cheaper to convert, using generic components.
I'm solving that through design, using lighter,
higher strength composites to get about the same
crashworthyness as a compact car. My Ewoody already totaled
a compact car that rearended it and it was made from wood!!
It took just $40 to put it back on the road ;^D To be fair
I've designed wood/epoxy-composite high speed, performace
boats for 25 yrs so it's not hard to me as most sailboats
have many times the forces on them than a car does.
But just designing as an EV will save a lot of
weight.
>
>Solar is cool, however, not exactly practical for
>retrofitting onto an existing car as my thesis will
>describe. Its definately cool for ground up EV's. If only
>those damn things were cheaper we would all be doing it.
But they are!! 1,000's of lightweight, aero kitcars
have been built or partly built you can buy for under $1,000
dead. These would make a great base for either a regular or
solar assisted EV.
Take a Bradley GT converted to EV if not already and
converted and cover with solarcells and you'll get about
what I was saying for mine, 20-30 mpd!! With a $1k glider,
you should easily finish a solar EV for under $5k.
>
>Anyway,
>Bye
>
>
>On 11/11/06, Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Just wanted to add another datapoint on solar power
>>charging EVs...
>> At the World Fair in Paris in 1878, Augustin Mouchot
>> demonstrated his "Sun Machine", by using it to power a
>> half-horsepower engine running a printing press.
>>
>> His Sun Machine used a 20-square-meter parabolic
>> concentrating reflector that boiled water and produced
>>steam...
>> So, 20 sq.meters producing about 375 watts? At about the
>> same latitude as Washington State? (OK, probably less wet
>>weather in Paris <hehe>)
>> Subtract losses in generator? Maybe source better tech
>> for reflective surface and steam engine than 130 years
>> ago? (So maybe slightly better efficiencies?)
>>
>> eg
>> http://www.reflectechsolar.com/products.htm
>> http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/mbsteam.htm
>>
>> Yah, maybe only 2% efficient overall, but cheap to build,
>> maintain and replace vs PV. OK, yah, Noisier for sure,
>> `less yer a train buff, in which case the added "music"
>>may be a bonus?
>> :)
There are other, much more eff stirling units out
there though larger than a home would use, hitting 30+% eff.
I hear they are putting in a field of Helostats out west.
There are several solar steam engines online too,
Whitehorse I think is one of them.
A windgen maybe better both at home and/or put up
when parked.
Jerry Dycus
>>
>> tks
>> Lock
>> Toronto
>> Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian
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We decided in order to promote the new SouthWest UK EV group (BEVOB -
http://www.bevob.org/wordpress) that we'd run a little competition on
my personal blog for people to suggest a name for my new City El.
If you have an idea for a bright yellow City El and want to win a T
shirt just comment your ideas and the best one wins a "EVangelists
Suck Amps" T shirt!
http://aminorjourney.co.uk/wordpress/archives/309 for the story. It's
currently got the name "the flying banana" but I'm thinking it'd be
nice to have something less... fruity!
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
--- nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you have an idea for a bright yellow City El and want to win a T
> shirt just comment your ideas and the best one wins a "EVangelists
> Suck Amps" T shirt!
Rubber Ducky
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It's got a good starter! " There are no electrical issues with starter,
lights, wipers, or defrost."
Bill
Rush wrote:
1980 Renault Electric Leo, $358.28 WOW
Philadelphia...
Ebay - 160050313915
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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> Maybe four of these 260mmx260mm lenses, tiled together as a larger
> square but "bent" at the joins sortof, onto one focal point, for less
> than $100US?:
>
> http://www.3dlens.com/shop/largefresnellens.php
Umm, I'll have to dig out my Fresnel lens and check, but I don't think
tilting the lens' will move the focal point. Well, ok it will move the
focal point, but the image of the sun will stay in the same place until
the lens tilts enough that it ends up getting diffused.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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--- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Yah, maybe only 2% efficient overall, but cheap to build,
> >> maintain and replace vs PV. OK, yah, Noisier for sure,
> >> `less yer a train buff, in which case the added "music"
> >>may be a bonus?
> >> :)
>
> There are other, much more eff stirling units out
> there though larger than a home would use, hitting 30+% eff.
> I hear they are putting in a field of Helostats out west.
> There are several solar steam engines online too,
> Whitehorse I think is one of them.
> A windgen maybe better both at home and/or put up
> when parked.
> Jerry Dycus
Jerry,
Ya have to imagine a 32' EVessel (lobsterboat w/20sq.m flat cabintop -
ya, her topsides were redrawn and she was built with a full salon and
small afterdeck w/canvas, for charter fishing.)
Cabintop "papered" with mini-parabolic troughs, then glassed over (not
the fibre kind!) So, a little more weight and windage. But makin'
steam to spin a 1/2hp genny to trickle charge. Endless supply of water
of course... below the (fresh)waterline <grin>
And, a "field" of spar bouys bobbing alongside when moored, each
w/Savonious rotor on top, spinning pancake generators to feed the
propulsion pack.
Propulsion pack also serves as dump pack for the e-scoot.
So, ya, wind *and* solar for the EV's... Would this solar array make
her an EV that "steams" at 4 knots? <Big grin>
As you say with regards to "efficient" EV's, the trick is in cutting
the consumption!
tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian
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