EV Digest 6124
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Curtis whine question vs. Raptor condensation issues
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: SOlar concentrators (was: Solar EV power)
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: CO2 per mile calculations
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil
tax
by doug korthof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: CO2 per mile calculations
by "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm
by Steven Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Batteries on bicycles
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Customer Service (was: Beware of this EV supplier)
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 'lectric leo on ebay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil
tax
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Customer Service (was: Beware of this EV supplier)
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) return of the 'crazy boy' charger
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil
tax
by Kenneth Dove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) NiMH patents, was Re: A programme for the Dems
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: NiMH patents, was Re: A programme for the Dems
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) '07 Racing Plans
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH,
oil tax
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
--- "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I had one more idea. A small bottle of dry compressed air (or other gas
> like CO2) with a little regulator designed to maintain around 1/2 psi.
> This could be plumbed with a small plastic or rubber tube and feed in
> using one of the threaded adjustment holes. With a slight positive
> pressure inside it wouldn't suck in outside air as it cools. (if I
> understand CO2's properties correctly it would help slightly with
> cooling too)
>
Most cars have positive cabin pressure to keep fumes away from the passengers.
How about running a
small conduit to the controller or an enclosure around it to provide some
conditioned air and keep
environmental moisture away? My car has a huge hole in the firewall where the
engine wiring
harness used to be. It would be easy to run a 2 or 3 inch conduit to my
electronics package to
keep the water away. Keep the elctronics as comfy as me.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ouch. That sounds right Peter. Oh well, I'll ask the Concentrator
folks.
Those lenses I saw quoted focal length 200mm, so a *little* tilt might
still be *mostly* effective?
I'm more of a reflective guy (dish), rather than refractive (lense)
:)
L
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Maybe four of these 260mmx260mm lenses, tiled together as a larger
> > square but "bent" at the joins sortof, onto one focal point, for
> less than $100US?:
> >
> > http://www.3dlens.com/shop/largefresnellens.php
>
> Umm, I'll have to dig out my Fresnel lens and check, but I don't
> think
> tilting the lens' will move the focal point. Well, ok it will move
> the
> focal point, but the image of the sun will stay in the same place
> until the lens tilts enough that it ends up getting diffused.
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why would you count tank cars? Then you need to figure in all the burnt
electric vehicles in the last year or so!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "JS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: CO2 per mile calculations
> Carl,
> Include on your list all the railroad and truck tank cars that burn. In
> today's news another train derailed and
> thousands of gallons of petroleum burned. That's the second incident of
> that type in about 2 weeks.
>
> John in Sylmar, CA PV-EV conversion
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.2/528 - Release Date: 11/10/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [BULK] Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
> So there are companys specifically making the air cleaners and you
> install them right?
We did the electrical installation, if we get the bid. Like any other
electrical contracting business.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The auto companies are widely viewed as appealing to the Dems for aid both in
clearing their pension liability and in erecting trade barriers to foreign
cars. At the same time, Democrats, it's predicted, will rescind the special
tax benefits Bush handed out to the oil companies.
Now is the time to demand that Dems actually do more than just payback the
unions for their contributions...Any aid to the auto companie, and policy
toward the oil companies, must be accompanied by:
1. Freeing the NiMH patents from Chevron, or else forcing Toyota to produce the
EV-95 battery as a condition of doing business; eminent domain is one
possibility, criminal prosecution is another.
2. Raising CAFE standards.
3. A graduated tax on oil, so that the more you use, the more you pay. One way
to do this is via ration cards; another is by raising the price but giving "gas
credit cards" to everyone for the first $100/month of free gas. After that,
they would have to pay the going price, perhaps $8/gallon. Other ways to do
this are by regional taxes on gas deliveries, and a gas-guzzler tax.
4. A new, national ZEV mandate, "a ZEV must be produced to satisfy the demand
of the free market so that everyone who wants to buy one at a fair price will
be served an EV".
This can be a letter writing campaign, testimony, picketing, petitions, and
perhaps just contacting your elected representatives.
The mainstream does not even know that Chevron controls the NiMH patents, nor
that the existence of EVs depends on these batteries, the only proven
economical, long-lasting, and powerful enough to drive a car without an IC in
EV service.
It's possible that Lithium, or lead-acid, might be made sufficient, perhaps
with nano-tech; but that's a different issue. We know, now, that the batteries
exist; we know that they work; and no pissant company, no matter how many
bribes they pay, should be allowed to stand in the way of the national interest
in the interest of their oil megalopoly and bloated profits.
The price of gas has already started to rise; there's no reason to believe that
the oil companies won't use the excuse of "peak oil" to jack prices as high as
they wish, and reduce competition and regulation while they can.
The issue is plain; the obfuscaters are the oil companies and their paid hacks
and bribed politicians.
/Doug
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
El
Vellow
or
El-Vellow
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lock Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
--- nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you have an idea for a bright yellow City El and want to win a T
shirt just comment your ideas and the best one wins a "EVangelists
Suck Amps" T shirt!
Rubber Ducky
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could count all the EVs that caught on fire this past year while your at
it.
Ted
Olympia, WA
N47 02.743 W122 53.772
"THE Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long
before the world runs out of oil."
Quotation is from Sheikh Zaki Yamani, a Saudi Arabian who served as his
country's oil minister three decades ago.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: CO2 per mile calculations
Carl,
Include on your list all the railroad and truck tank cars that burn. In
today's news another train derailed and
thousands of gallons of petroleum burned. That's the second incident of
that type in about 2 weeks.
John in Sylmar, CA PV-EV conversion
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You ask "what is the price?" If you go to their website and read all of
the "ABOUT" copy (which is like a brief prospectus for investors), you
will see a detailed explanation of their businesss model, which is:
1) sell the car for about $45,000 and maybe make some profit on it
(probably not)
2) sell 40 ZEV credits to GM, Ford, etc for at least $5000 each lieu of
their actually making a ZEV ($200,000)
So, they hope to sell about 1000 cars in the first year (2007), and take
in revenue of about $245K each ($245 million), and up to 10,000 cars a
year in later years.
This is only for California I think, where this system is set up by CARB
(the ZEV credits). I believe it is 2% of cars sold in CA by 2008 have
to be "gold" ZEV (pure BEV or HFC) or manufacturers have to pay a $5000
fine, which can be offset by buying the credits from a company like
Phoenix that actually makes ZEVs like. To encourage manufacture of
ZEVs, each ZEV sold will earn either 12 or 40 credits (Phoenix cars
supposedly qualify for the 40 credits) that can be sold to another
manufacturer who does not meet the 2% quantity. These credits could
also be sold on the open market to speculators.
So, one could infer from this that the price will be in the $45K
ballpark, which is how they are going to pay for the batteries I guess!
I wonder if some of our EVDL BEV builders can take advantage of this and
sell ZEV credits to finance their operations? I hope CA and CARB
support cottage industry in this way!! Too bad NY doesn't have a
similar system... If you live in CA, check with CARB and your
representatives!
Steve Wilson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Even people in moderate good shape can out perform most e-bikes and
>> folks in good shape can out perform ALL of the legal e-bicycles.
>
> Good thing "legal" was added here. What is "legal" changes over time
> and jurisdictions of course, often as folks become more enlightened...
> or more desperate?
I doubt any of us will live to see the day when a "legal" electric bicycle
is allowed to exceed 40mph (speed achieveable on a time trial bike) or
even 30mph (speeds achieveable with a standard safety bike without
aerodynamic enhancements, current 1 hour record is close to 31mph)
FWIW at well over 200lbs I'm not exactly a competitive cyclist, but even
I've done 24 miles in 1 hour in a solo effort.
>
> My next "legal" e-bike will have a tiny pair of pedals mounted on it
> somewhere. I'll probably be able to strip a pair off one of those
> desk-top miniature bikes made for display in a office or something.
You might want to check to see what the legal definition actually is. I
don't know about other countries, but most states in the USA require
"Functional" pedals and many have a requirement that the wheels be over
12" in diameter
> That's because my "bike" ("bi-cycle" aka "two-wheeler") can be kicked,
> easily and comfortably... for exercise and for warmth and to conserve
> the power stored in the batteries.
To each their own, but /your/ definition of "bicycle" doesnt seem to match
that of the vast majority of the world.
> If you think of yourself as an "EV'er", and you hear folks say:
>> Even people in moderate good shape can out perform most e-bikes and
>> folks in good shape can out perform ALL of the legal e-bicycles.
>
> Please point out that adding batteries to two-wheels makes for a far
> superior vehicle than the Victorian pedal bicycle (usually what folks
> are referring to when they say "bicycle" these days...)
"Superior" in this case is a matter of opinion. Most bicycling
enthusiasts would disagree with your opinion.
>
> And that "performance" is defined by your objectives.
>
> Some performance criteria for your bicycle might include: does it fold
> up, stow in a shoulder bag, fly as luggage and park in your closet?
Hmm, there are several companies that make folding bicycles, "Bike Friday"
is probably the best, or at least most widely known.
I have a firend who has a Bike Friday that comes with a Samsonite case
thats about average size for checked luggage.
There are also some other companies that make couplers that allow you
split a normal safety bike apart in the middle.
>
> Does it need a seat (that needs to be kept dry, or that might be stolen
> if you don't detach it and lock it up too, or carry it with you)?
Is this a big problem where you live? I've been riding bikes for almost
40 years now and I've NEVER had a seat stolen. Considering that my
current saddle retails for close to $100, I'd think that if anyone was
inclined to steal a seat, this is the one they'd steal, and yet...hasn't
happened.
And who cares if it gets wet? If it's raining and wet out, everything is
going to end up wet anyway.
>
> Does most of it stow under your seat on the subway?
?? I don't think there /are/ any subways in my state, in fact very few
places you can find subways in the USA. Most buses around here have a
bike rack though.
>
> Is it easy to turn around in an elevator, and does it hide well behind
> your desk or a potted plant?
Sure, I normally stand it up and wheel it around on it's back wheel when
I'm in a building.
>
> Do you need special shoes, or clothing, or can you ride it dressed for
> the office?
I could ride it dress for the office, in fact I used for years, but my
clothes would often get dirty. Now I normally change at work.
Of course the big advantage of bicycles is getting exercise, which most of
the developed world is in sore need of.
Adding an electric assist to a bicycle allows those folks who are out of
condition get /some/ exercise.
>
> As a "bicycle" with power-assist, but no seat, so a stand-up, the
> weight of the (hub) motor and battery pack are kept very low down.
Again /your/ definition seems to be quite different from the rest of the
worlds.
. EVen
> the weight of the rider, resting on their feet instead of up higher on
> their rear end. This makes for a more stable vehicle, which doesn't
> wobble around, especially at very slow speeds (as eg mixed in with
> pedestrians.)
Actually where your weight rests makes no difference, it's where the
center of mass is that matters.
Ballance is ballance, if you're good at it, speed doesn't matter. In fact
I, and many other cyclists, can ballance at a complete stop with my feet
on the pedals... without wobbling. It's called a track stand.
> Does your "bicycle" have the *option* of arriving for work without you
> having broken a sweat, and needing a change of clothes and a shower?
Does your "scooter" provide any exercise?
FWIW I usually take it easy on the way to work so I don't break a sweat,
and I probably get there faster than you do on your scooter.
Tell me, how long does it take you to go 11 miles? It used to take me
about 50 minutes on the way to work and 30-35 on the way home.
I just moved and now I live uphill from work, so the commute to work will
probably be quicker now.
>
> Does your "bicycle" have the *option* of avoiding exertion and so
> higher respiration rates, while traveling through smoggy urban canyons
> along lines of smoking tail pipes?
Smog isn't a problem where I live, I choose to keep it that way. However,
they make masks to filter out smog if it's a big concern to you.
> One fun thing about strapping batteries to two wheels is that the motor
> provides superior acceleration. This makes it easier to *slow down*.
>
> In a stop-and-go urban world, slowing down on a Victorian pedal bicycle
> is "hard to do", because a lot of the energy expended goes into
> accelerating back up to speed again.
I'm not following your logic here. I can slow down fast enough to leave
skid marks.
> Electrics make this easy. It's so
> much safer to have the "luxury" of slowing down when approaching an
> intersection, etc, so you can have a good look around to determine that
> it really is safe to proceed.
Still not following you, I mentioned track stands earlier, this is what
they are for. Stop at the intersection and look around, then go. No
problem.
>
> Standing up on your "bicycle", it's easier to twist around on your
> ankles, rather than from your waist while seated, to get a look around
> at the other vehicles etc around you.
Sounds like you are grasping at straws now, I have no problem turning
around and looking directly behind me. However, I just added a mirror to
my sunglasses so it only takes a split second to switch between looking
forward and backward.
>
> Standing up on your "bicycle" means it is easier to see and be seen.
Yup, definitely grasping at straws. While riding my head is at almost the
same height as it is when standing, unless I'm riding in the drops. Even
when riding in the drops, my head is above where most drivers are.
As for beiung seen, as you pointed out, bicycles are usually larger than
scooters which makes them easier to see. THe person is the same size
regardless of what they are riding.
>
> (And yeah, OK, standing up on your vehicle is the worst aero
> imaginable, but hey, nothing's perfect, eh? :-)
Not to mention that statistics seem to indicate that scooters are more
dangerous than bicycles. I think this might be because people think that
since their feet are close to the ground, they can just "step" off to
avoid an accident. This usually doesn't work so well if you are moving at
speeds above a quick walk.
I tried this on a skate board once, tried to avoid an accident by jumping
off. Ended up doing a face plant.
>
> Standing up on your "bicycle" means you can get on and *off* much
> faster than when you are straddling it as jammed in your crotch. This
> makes it easy to move from motoring to kicking to walking, as eg,
> around pedestrians.
Yes which means you might be inclined to try to "step off" when going to
fast.
>
> When you take a tumble off your two wheels and your vehicle is jammed
> in your crotch, your hips and arms and shoulders and *head* will head
> for the pavement.
I guess it depends on how you tumble off it. If you ride straight on into
an obstacle (why?) then you go head first into the ground, on a bike /or/
a scooter.
I don't know about scooters, but my experience with bicycles and
motorcycles is that you usually end up landing on your side
>
> When you take a tumble off a stand-up kick scooter, your hands and
> knees and hips end up on the pavement... not so much your head. Most of
> the time you will just land on your feet, or knees and hands.
>
> Anyway, these are just my observations and perspective, based on
> readings plus my commuting experiences over 10,000km as an urban north
> american.
Hmm, well get back to us once you got some real miles down. I normally do
about 10,000km a year on my bike.
>
> In 2001 the CPSC (US Consumer Product Safety Commission) studied
> (non-powered) kick scoots because of rabid reports of a rapid rise in
> injuries (true), however in their conclusions they basically found that
> the kick scoots suffered *half* the injuries of the kids on bicycles,
> and many, many fewer injuries than the kids on skateboards and in-line
> skate blades...
> http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/FOIA/FOIA02/os/Scooters.pdf
Yes fewer injuries because fewer people ride them (duh). What we need to
look at is injuries per mile, or even injuries per rider. I haven't been
able to find these statistics yet.
Did you notice that 27% of the injuries were because the scooter hit a
small object like a pebble? I don't even notice when I hit a bebble, I
don't even notice rocks until they get over 1/2" (12mm) in diameter. I've
even riden over 2" rocks and didn't crash. I try to avoid this though, it
usually pops a tube.
Anyway, my biggest problem with scooters is that their wheels are usually
too small. Small wheels just don't do as well as larger wheels on rough
surfaces. This means that you have to go slower on them.
Which I guess is for the best, since the short wheel base, combined with
the rider's high center of gravity, limits their braking ability.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electric Banana
Mark McCurdy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: El
Vellow
or
El-Vellow
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lock Hughes"
To:
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: Name my car... win a T Shirt ;)
> --- nikki wrote:
>> If you have an idea for a bright yellow City El and want to win a T
>> shirt just comment your ideas and the best one wins a "EVangelists
>> Suck Amps" T shirt!
>
> Rubber Ducky
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i ordered the bulk of my parts from KTA. Ken was very helpful and up
front about any delays in parts. he is of course limited by how fast he
can get them and i certainly understand that. he always called me back
promptly if i had to leave a voice mail. i too have no issue with
delays so long as i am kept up-to-date. but some places just simply do
not respond. this is unacceptable.
i don't want to see businesses publicly bashed. doesn't really help
anyone. i would like to hear from others that have had GOOD experiences
with suppliers. this would be very useful!
MARK DUTKO wrote:
On a more positive note I have done business with several suppliers and
I would like to mention that my experience with EV source has been
excellent. Ryan provides professional service, helpful answers and
prompt follow up. I would recommend him as a supplier and place him at
the top of my experiences so far as a multi-parts supplier. His model is
one others should follow.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's up to 900. Secret bidders all. Hmmmmm. The car looks nice it should
go for about 5 to 7k. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 7:43 AM
Subject: 'lectric leo on ebay
> 1980 Renault Electric Leo, $358.28 WOW
> Philadelphia...
>
> Ebay - 160050313915
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
$100 per month in gas?
If I am really trying, I may burn 10 gallons in a month.
I'd say if you hand out more than $50 per month, you are
lowering a lot of people's cost of addiction.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of doug korthof
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: A programme for the Dems: Energy Independence, free NiMH, oil
tax
The auto companies are widely viewed as appealing to the Dems for aid both
in clearing their pension liability and in erecting trade barriers to
foreign cars. At the same time, Democrats, it's predicted, will rescind the
special tax benefits Bush handed out to the oil companies.
Now is the time to demand that Dems actually do more than just payback the
unions for their contributions...Any aid to the auto companie, and policy
toward the oil companies, must be accompanied by:
1. Freeing the NiMH patents from Chevron, or else forcing Toyota to produce
the EV-95 battery as a condition of doing business; eminent domain is one
possibility, criminal prosecution is another.
2. Raising CAFE standards.
3. A graduated tax on oil, so that the more you use, the more you pay. One
way to do this is via ration cards; another is by raising the price but
giving "gas credit cards" to everyone for the first $100/month of free gas.
After that, they would have to pay the going price, perhaps $8/gallon.
Other ways to do this are by regional taxes on gas deliveries, and a
gas-guzzler tax.
4. A new, national ZEV mandate, "a ZEV must be produced to satisfy the
demand of the free market so that everyone who wants to buy one at a fair
price will be served an EV".
This can be a letter writing campaign, testimony, picketing, petitions, and
perhaps just contacting your elected representatives.
The mainstream does not even know that Chevron controls the NiMH patents,
nor that the existence of EVs depends on these batteries, the only proven
economical, long-lasting, and powerful enough to drive a car without an IC
in EV service.
It's possible that Lithium, or lead-acid, might be made sufficient, perhaps
with nano-tech; but that's a different issue. We know, now, that the
batteries exist; we know that they work; and no pissant company, no matter
how many bribes they pay, should be allowed to stand in the way of the
national interest in the interest of their oil megalopoly and bloated
profits.
The price of gas has already started to rise; there's no reason to believe
that the oil companies won't use the excuse of "peak oil" to jack prices as
high as they wish, and reduce competition and regulation while they can.
The issue is plain; the obfuscaters are the oil companies and their paid
hacks and bribed politicians.
/Doug
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I, too have had excellent experiences with KTA services and Ryan at
evsource.com. CANEV was borderline, as they had good services, but could have
been a bit more upfront about the particular technical issues I faced.
EVparts.com, I've not had any problems with, but I really haven't done that
much business with them.
grassrootsev.com, Steve Clunn's business, I have had good experiences with,
too. They are a little scattered, since they are in multiple locations and
work this as a side business and all, so it took a while before all the
communication was done, but they made sure I understood all the issues and had
all my questions answered, and that I was kept up to date on delivery and
status.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 5:51:51 AM
Subject: Re: Customer Service (was: Beware of this EV supplier)
i ordered the bulk of my parts from KTA. Ken was very helpful and up
front about any delays in parts. he is of course limited by how fast he
can get them and i certainly understand that. he always called me back
promptly if i had to leave a voice mail. i too have no issue with
delays so long as i am kept up-to-date. but some places just simply do
not respond. this is unacceptable.
i don't want to see businesses publicly bashed. doesn't really help
anyone. i would like to hear from others that have had GOOD experiences
with suppliers. this would be very useful!
MARK DUTKO wrote:
> On a more positive note I have done business with several suppliers and
> I would like to mention that my experience with EV source has been
> excellent. Ryan provides professional service, helpful answers and
> prompt follow up. I would recommend him as a supplier and place him at
> the top of my experiences so far as a multi-parts supplier. His model is
> one others should follow.
>
> Mark
>
--- End Message ---
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Most of you guys now on the list were not around for the thread on the ‘crazy
boy’ chargers. Lee had the best one (he might post it again if there’s enough
demand)…until now.
So it seems I’m sent off to Germany on extremely short notice for work. They
kindly give me a ‘loaner’ cell phone that works in Germany for the trip. Only
problem, as I later find out, is that it runs itself down in only a day. I
happen to have a car charger that works, but the wall charger is dead. I don’t
have one, the local stores don’t have one that fits, so I am unable to get one
before my trip (I almost got a gadget that plugs into the wall and has a 12V
cigarette lighter socket, but it wasn’t universal input). I packed the car
charger, hoping to scrounge some electrons on the trips to and from work.
Fortunately, the guy I’m working with has a working wall charger at work, so
I’m in business. They didn’t rent me a car, so if I was to use the car charger
it’d be only a few minutes per day. Then comes the weekend, and I’m stuck
powerless.
Seems the other guy who arrived Saturday isn’t going to be meeting me anytime
soon, so the phone will certainly run down before then. What’s more, he called
me on the cell phone to tell me this, so it’s down more than halfway, and it’s
only 10:00 in the morning.
What to do? First, understand that I’m in a tiny town, not a big city. The
single convenience store doesn’t have stuff like this, and there certainly
isn’t anything like wal-mart or radio shack around. Trust me, I walked the
whole town, and it took only 15 minutes round trip.
Well, I have an AC adapter for the charger for my camera batteries that
provides 12VDC, and hallelujah, it’s *universal input*! So I can plug it in
and have 12VDC. I also have the car charger I know works. How to connect the
two? First, I disassembled 2 ballpoint pens for the springs. Then I expanded
one spring around the positive nib of the car charger, and attached the other
spring over the negative side contact of the car charger. Then I screwed the
negative spring into a third spring (one pen had two springs) which happened to
fit snugly over the outer, negative terminal of the AC adapter. The positive
terminal of the AC adapter was the inner terminal, so I freed a staple from
some papers, and pressed it down inside, then screwed the positive spring
contact around it.
At first, nothing happened. But then, after breaking one staple while trying
to get better contact, and using another (my last one), I tried connecting to
the negative contact on the opposite side of the car charger. At long last,
the phone signaled it was charging. Seems the car charger only takes power
from one of the contacts.
OK, I guess Lee’s was fancier, since he included the switch from the lamp he
used and a light bulb resistor, but keep in mind he also had a paper clip
available, and the charger circuitry was built into the razor!
Next time I’ll pack some paper clips – lots easier to bridge distances, and you
can twist them together without them breaking..a little bit anyway. And in
Europe, the paper clips are made of copper!
Til the next charge:
David Brandt
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I will wholeheartedly support this agenda with the notable exception of
point number three.
Any more tax intrusions into my life may result in the methodical
elimination of any and all elected officials.
Gasoline tax in Ohio is already about 41 cents per gallon so this
initiative would be like taxing the product twice (which is not unheard of)!
My wife and I both have longish commutes (45 mi each way) and we would
go over 100 gallons per month. Of course, if I could buy a Toyota RAV4
EV for 30 grand (as opposed to 52 grand) I would gladly flip off every
gas station along the way!
Good ideas Doug..........
doug korthof wrote:
The auto companies are widely viewed as appealing to the Dems for aid both in
clearing their pension liability and in erecting trade barriers to foreign
cars. At the same time, Democrats, it's predicted, will rescind the special
tax benefits Bush handed out to the oil companies.
Now is the time to demand that Dems actually do more than just payback the
unions for their contributions...Any aid to the auto companie, and policy
toward the oil companies, must be accompanied by:
1. Freeing the NiMH patents from Chevron, or else forcing Toyota to produce the
EV-95 battery as a condition of doing business; eminent domain is one
possibility, criminal prosecution is another.
2. Raising CAFE standards.
3. A graduated tax on oil, so that the more you use, the more you pay. One way to do
this is via ration cards; another is by raising the price but giving "gas credit
cards" to everyone for the first $100/month of free gas. After that, they would
have to pay the going price, perhaps $8/gallon. Other ways to do this are by regional
taxes on gas deliveries, and a gas-guzzler tax.
4. A new, national ZEV mandate, "a ZEV must be produced to satisfy the demand of the
free market so that everyone who wants to buy one at a fair price will be served an
EV".
This can be a letter writing campaign, testimony, picketing, petitions, and
perhaps just contacting your elected representatives.
The mainstream does not even know that Chevron controls the NiMH patents, nor
that the existence of EVs depends on these batteries, the only proven
economical, long-lasting, and powerful enough to drive a car without an IC in
EV service.
It's possible that Lithium, or lead-acid, might be made sufficient, perhaps
with nano-tech; but that's a different issue. We know, now, that the batteries
exist; we know that they work; and no pissant company, no matter how many
bribes they pay, should be allowed to stand in the way of the national interest
in the interest of their oil megalopoly and bloated profits.
The price of gas has already started to rise; there's no reason to believe that the oil
companies won't use the excuse of "peak oil" to jack prices as high as they
wish, and reduce competition and regulation while they can.
The issue is plain; the obfuscaters are the oil companies and their paid hacks
and bribed politicians.
/Doug
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On Fri, November 10, 2006 10:26 pm, doug korthof said:
>
> 1. Freeing the NiMH patents from Chevron, or else forcing Toyota to
> produce the EV-95 battery as a condition of doing business; eminent domain
> is one possibility, criminal prosecution is another.
> [...]
> The mainstream does not even know that Chevron controls the NiMH patents,
> nor that the existence of EVs depends on these batteries, the only proven
> economical, long-lasting, and powerful enough to drive a car without an IC
> in EV service.
Does anyony know the actual patent number(s) in question here?
--chris
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Chris Robison wrote:
Does anyony know the actual patent number(s) in question here?
i found the number 4,623,597 in this article...way at the bottom. maybe
this helps lead to others???
http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&blogid=104&authorid=51&archive=0
i goggled for NiMH patent infringement and got many hits.
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Hello to All,
Though we had a lot of fun racing this year, team Plasma Boy failed to
hit our goal of cracking the 11's. The Siamese 8 motor, the Zilla
control system, and the Dutchman drive train deliver power effortlessly
and reliably, but we feel the car is battery limited in terms of the
amount of total hp available. Consistently running low 12's isn't too
bad, and we did get a good deal of media attention that can only help
the image of EVs...still, we're not satisfied and are determined to do
better in '07!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey John,
Reading your posts reminds me why I love electric drag racing. The
changes we make to drive, chassis, control, batteries, etc... are wide
ranging and wide open. It's the "I wonder what doing this will do?"
and then finding out, that is such a blast for me.
Speaking of changes and getting blasted....Dick Brown, Tim, and I will
be changing the Zombie's battery pack for '07. The new Hawker based pack
will have about 35%-40% MORE power than the current pack, and what a
blast that will be! The Hawker electrochemist I spoke with agrees with
my calculations on what the new pack will do. The present pack based on
30 of the 24.5 lb. 26 ahr Hawker Aerobatteries generates an initial 321
hp, then about 4-5 seconds into the run it falls to 241 hp as the inner
cell straps soften and sag inside each battery. The new pack's smaller
batteries' interior cell straps are short and thick and don't suffer in
the same way as the bigger batteries' straps do, they have higher
specific power producing plates, and so they will initially generate a
whopping 422 hp! If Hawker's and my predictions are correct, this new
pack will still be cranking out 350+ hp at the far end of the track!
I don't believe in secrets and like to share my racing ideas, so here's
the plan. The current pack of 30 Hawkers will be replaced with 60 of the
smaller 13.5 lb. 16 ahr style Hawkers. Here's how the math works out.
When warmed up and fully charged, right off the line the present larger
batteries sag to 8V @ 1000 amps. That's 8V X 30 = 240V X 1000 amps = 240
kw for 321 'battery hp'. Soon after launch however, each battery quickly
falls to 6V, so that's 6V X 30 = 180V X 1000 amps = 180 kw for 241
'battery hp' for the rest of the run. These figures are confirmed by the
plotted graphs we pulled from Hairball info. Any more than 1000 amps and
the batteries each fall to under 6V and detonation is probable.
Looking back to '98 - '02 when I used to run with a single string of the
Hawker 16 ahr Genesis batteries, at 800 amps I'd blow up a battery or
two about every 5 runs or so. At 750 amps though, the batteries held up
very well. Keep in mind, that back then the total time at the 750 amp
high discharge was in the 13.1 - 13.5 second range, too. If things work
out the way I think they will, the car will be running mid to high 11's
@ 750 amps from each battery, so that's about two seconds less total
time at high discharge...should be easy street for the batteries. Again,
back then each small Hawker discharged at 750 amps would stay above 7
volts right off the line and sag to 6.9V at the end of the run. Hawker's
engineer I spoke with confirms what I saw back then, and says that the
newest 16 ahr Hawkers sag to a pinch over 7 volts at 750 amps discharge.
Now....two 16 ahr Hawkers at 7 volts and 750 amps comes to 1500 amps @ 7
volts, and two of these 13.5 lb. batteries weigh 27 lbs....pretty close
to the present 24.5 lb. batteries I'm using right now.
So the comparison looks this way. The present batteries initially limit
the car to 8V @ 1000 amps per module right as it leaves the line. These
batteries then, are good for about 10.7 hp per module for the first 4-5
seconds....times 30, that's 321 battery hp. Two of the smaller batteries
essentially makes a 27 lb. module that makes 7V @ 1500 amps, for about
14 hp per module....times 30, that's 420 battery hp.
The plan is to not run buddy pairs, rather, there will be two single
strings @ 360V, and those two strings will be paralleled. Yes, this new
pack will be heavier than my target weight limit of around 700 lbs. (the
current pack weighs 735 lbs.) and will be 810 lbs., but the dramatic
power increase should be worth the 75 lb. weight increase. Marko and I
will try to shave 20 lbs. off battery boxes and brackets in the redesign
to hold the 60 small batteries, and there might be 10-15 lbs. elsewhere
I could get out of the car, so it's possible that the car might only
gain 40 lbs. or so. An aluminum Ford nine inch differential in back
would be good for a 45 lb. weight reduction, so if all the planets are
aligned just right, the car could actually end up a pinch lighter with a
lot more power!
As it is now, on a sticky track White Zombie launches hard and carries
the front tires for about 50 feet under a 1000 amp battery current, but
that limit restricts the length of time the motor stays at full boil.
With an extra 500 amps battery current limit (1500 amps instead of 1000
amps) the motor will have a wider power band on launch, so excessive
wheel stands are a concern and wheelie bars might be needed to keep the
car under control off the line...guess we'll have to wait to see how it
works out. The other concern is when the series-parallel upshift occurs
down the track. Even with its sagging pack and a 1000 amp battery
current limit, the rear end breaks loose on that transition, but it's
fairly controllable. With 1500 battery amps on tap and as much as 30
extra 'loaded volts', Tim and I don't want the car to get sideways at
70+ mph...lots to think about with such a powerful battery pack!
One can only imagine what a 500 lb. lithium pack could do in this car!
'07 should be fun.
See Ya.......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
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>> 1. Freeing the NiMH patents from Chevron, or else forcing Toyota to
>> produce the EV-95 battery as a condition of doing business; eminent
>> domain is one possibility, criminal prosecution is another.
Wah, wah, wah. Personally I LIKE living in a Capitalistic Democracy. nId
hate to live in a country where the government could sieze someone's
intelectual property and give it away to someone else, just because YOU
don't like how they are handling their property.
The patents will expire in a few years at which point Cheveron will be the
big loser and we will be the overall winners because LiIon/LiPol batteries
will be freely available and affordable. Much more affordable than NiMH.
>>
>> 2. Raising CAFE standards.
Absolutely, well overdue
>>
>> 3. A graduated tax on oil, so that the more you use, the more you pay.
I'd be happy if they'd just quit subsidizing the oil companies.
>> 4. A new, national ZEV mandate, "a ZEV must be produced to satisfy the
>> demand of the free market so that everyone who wants to buy one at a
>> fair price will be served an EV".
You know, I get the strong feeling that you'd like to be a dictator of
your own country. I'd suggest you take a few classes on civics and
economics so that you can understand the real consequences of what you're
suggesting.
>> The price of gas has already started to rise; there's no reason to
>> believe that the oil companies won't use the excuse of "peak oil" to
>> jack prices as high as they wish, and reduce competition and regulation
>> while they can.
Yup. After years of keeping the price of gasoline lower than bottled
water, they have finally allowed it to go up to near it's real cost.
Right now, however, it's falling back to previous levels. A shame really,
while it was at $3 a gallon even the republicans were talking about
electric cars.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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