EV Digest 6135
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Batteries, Beasties an' Stuff.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Optima & Orbital Dimensions
by EVSource <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: Got my copy of "Who Killed the Electric Car" today!
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Parallel packs.
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Water heaters
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Battery Addative for Floodies?
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Parallel packs.
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Lead acid terminal types
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Parallel packs.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: go kart ideas and parts sources
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Parallel packs.
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Email or Web address doubles up.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Water heaters
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: go kart ideas and parts sources
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Lead acid terminal types
by "Nawaz Qureshi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Hello Howard,
> I think you needs a Red Beastie sorta thing? A Toyota or other sturdy
pickup that he can load 40 golf cart batteries in series parallel. Of course
were talking frarsome weight here, up in the Roland W. size thing<g> But you
WILL get the range you are looking for. Several other guyz here have stuffed
40 batteri into a truck. It's a how-deep-are-your-pockets thing?Were only
talking about 2600 lbs of battery<g>!Nothing on a RR car, thats about what
they used to carry for lighting<g>!But you CAN beef up a Toyota truck to
carry that. John Wayland did. Unfortunately it was killed in the famous Tony
Acrizzi Dumptruck Disaster. I helped him cut it up after. Was sad to torch
the still intact chassis, cutting away the frame, driveshaft and suspension
to free the still good motor and tranny. In retrospect I shoulda torched ALL
the sheetmetal away and trailered home the chassis, burnt, but still
structurally sound.
Bottom line; think LEAD for range, trucks will do it.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ben and all,
On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:18:51 -0500, Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Could someone with an Optima and/or Orbital
> dig out their ruler and calipers and take some measurements for me? To
> simplify discussion, I've labeled the dimensions I need at
> http://bapollo.com/battery.jpg
>
Maybe the information on this page will help:
http://www.evsource.com/faqs/batteries/orbital_dimensions.php
-Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We set a new record! (More on that later.)
The KillaCycle team (me, Scotty Pollacheck, Steve Ciciora, Derek
Barger, and Scot Colburn) just got back from the All Harley Drag
Racing Association (AHDRA) event at Las Vegas. I believe that the
KillaCycle was the very first non-Harley motorcycle ever to
participate in the Las Vegas AHDRA event, ever. Quite an honor.
The reception was warm, but the weather was a bit chilly at times.
This made it difficult to get all 880 of the A123 Systems lithium ion
cells up to the toasty temperature where they deliver the most HP.
During the course of the event, we progressively posted better times
as we figured out ways of warming up the pack. On Saturday morning,
we ran a restrained 10.19 @130 mph just to shake down the bike and
cycle the pack. (900 pack amps, 374 volts.) Neither the fans or the
tower announcer were expecting a nearly silent drag bike, so there
were a lot of puzzled looks and "What the heck was THAT!" comments
after the run.
This event is the AHDRA season finale, so there were a LOT of bikes
running. (Great track prep by AHDRA, by the way.) We were very lucky
to get three runs in all day. (10.19, 9.217 and 9.346) The runs were
many hours apart, so we couldn't get the A123 Systems pack
temperature up to the desired 70 degrees Celsius for maximum power.
(Other brands of Li-Ion cells would be ablaze at this temperature, by
the way.) We knew we had to figure out a new strategy for Sunday.
By the end of Saturday, all the Harley fans knew who we were and
were universally positive about the bike. We had a parade of tattooed
bikers patting us on the back and telling us how much they liked the
KillaCycle.
Scotty worked with the AHDRA officials and scheduled our Sunday
exhibition runs for the afternoon. We ran the bike in the back lot
several times and charged it up several times in the late morning to
pre-heat the pack. We turned the Zilla up to 1350 amps, knowing the
hot pack would be able to dish it out.
We ran a bit later than originally planned, so the pack was just a
bit cooler than we would have liked for the first run. We set a new
record on this run, however, of 9.035 @142.79 mph! (Our old record
was 9.156) We quickly returned to the pits, recharged the bike, and
the AHDRA folks let us run again just as soon as we were ready. The
pack was up to temperature and we were able to back up our new
record, making it official.
This last run was near the end of the event and it was quite dark by
then. The crowd was all ready for us and cheered Scotty as he did a
truly awesome burn-out. (We will post the video shortly on You-Tube.)
He then rolled out of the water box and up to the staging lights,
taking his time, letting the pack recover from the burn-out
discharge. He launched hard and we all knew this run was going to be
even better than the previous one. Just as Scotty crossed the finish
line, the rear motor splashed plasma onto the track, creating an
awesome fireworks display. (You MUST see the video.)
The scoreboard lit up showing: 8.760 @ 145.44 mph
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
That is COOKIN!!! Congratulations to you and Scotty. You have just
blown the door wide open to the beginning of the 2007 racing season.
It is going to be some year.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 3:32 AM
Subject: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
We set a new record! (More on that later.)
The KillaCycle team (me, Scotty Pollacheck, Steve Ciciora, Derek
Barger, and Scot Colburn) just got back from the All Harley Drag Racing
Association (AHDRA) event at Las Vegas. I believe that the KillaCycle
was the very first non-Harley motorcycle ever to participate in the Las
Vegas AHDRA event, ever. Quite an honor.
The reception was warm, but the weather was a bit chilly at times. This
made it difficult to get all 880 of the A123 Systems lithium ion cells
up to the toasty temperature where they deliver the most HP. During the
course of the event, we progressively posted better times as we figured
out ways of warming up the pack. On Saturday morning, we ran a
restrained 10.19 @130 mph just to shake down the bike and cycle the
pack. (900 pack amps, 374 volts.) Neither the fans or the tower
announcer were expecting a nearly silent drag bike, so there were a lot
of puzzled looks and "What the heck was THAT!" comments after the run.
This event is the AHDRA season finale, so there were a LOT of bikes
running. (Great track prep by AHDRA, by the way.) We were very lucky to
get three runs in all day. (10.19, 9.217 and 9.346) The runs were many
hours apart, so we couldn't get the A123 Systems pack temperature up to
the desired 70 degrees Celsius for maximum power. (Other brands of
Li-Ion cells would be ablaze at this temperature, by the way.) We knew
we had to figure out a new strategy for Sunday.
By the end of Saturday, all the Harley fans knew who we were and were
universally positive about the bike. We had a parade of tattooed bikers
patting us on the back and telling us how much they liked the
KillaCycle.
Scotty worked with the AHDRA officials and scheduled our Sunday
exhibition runs for the afternoon. We ran the bike in the back lot
several times and charged it up several times in the late morning to
pre-heat the pack. We turned the Zilla up to 1350 amps, knowing the hot
pack would be able to dish it out.
We ran a bit later than originally planned, so the pack was just a
bit cooler than we would have liked for the first run. We set a new
record on this run, however, of 9.035 @142.79 mph! (Our old record was
9.156) We quickly returned to the pits, recharged the bike, and the
AHDRA folks let us run again just as soon as we were ready. The pack
was up to temperature and we were able to back up our new record,
making it official.
This last run was near the end of the event and it was quite dark by
then. The crowd was all ready for us and cheered Scotty as he did a
truly awesome burn-out. (We will post the video shortly on You-Tube.)
He then rolled out of the water box and up to the staging lights,
taking his time, letting the pack recover from the burn-out discharge.
He launched hard and we all knew this run was going to be even better
than the previous one. Just as Scotty crossed the finish line, the rear
motor splashed plasma onto the track, creating an awesome fireworks
display. (You MUST see the video.)
The scoreboard lit up showing: 8.760 @ 145.44 mph
Bill Dube'
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
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across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got my 2 copies from Amazon too!
--- Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, happy to say I was able to find a copy of the movie locally today! It
> did take me a little
> while though. I first tried Best Buy. That particular location did not have
> it, but the
> employees were very helpful and were able to look up the other stores, most
> of which had at
> least 3 copies in stock. I tried a near by Circuit City, they didn't have it.
> I went inside the
> mall I was circling and found a Suncoast video store. They're generally more
> expensive, but they
> have odd-ball stuff you won't find elsewhere. I walked around the store for a
> few minutes
> looking for a documentary section or special intrest, and didn't find it. I
> was about to go ask
> if they had it when I glanced over and there it was right in front on a rack!
> I think it was the
> only copy there, but I didn't care, I had found it!
>
> With a big smile on my face I went to the counter, set it down and gleefully
> said "you have it"!
> To my suprise the girl at the checkout said she wanted to see it. "It's very
> good" I said. "Ohh
> where'd you see it?" she asked. Me "Camelview 5". "Ohh, it didn't play long
> there did it?". Me
> "Only two weeks, but I did help sell out some of the opening night showings."
>
> Now this is the ironic part; the mall I bought the movie at is the Fiesta
> Mall in Mesa, AZ. This
> mall used to have an electric vehicle charging station, but it has long since
> been removed.
> Looking at the old EV1 club web site I'm 90% sure I was able to figure out
> where it used to be.
> There's usually a little hump in the black top where the charger pedestal
> used to be.
>
> The DVD has some good specail featuers including deleted scenes and some cool
> behind the scene
> footage from the filming. I won't ruin the suprise for anyone though.
>
> I'm watching it for a 2nd time today. I think I'm going to give my Saturn
> conversion a hug now.
>
>
>
> Later,
> Ricky
> 02 Insight - Sold
> 06 Civic IMA
> 92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
> Glendale, AZ USA
>
> ---------------------------------
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 11/15/2006 1:02:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> The scoreboard lit up showing: 8.760 @ 145.44 mph
>
>
> Bill Dube'
>
Impressive run Bill and Scotty, Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys and gals.
After an initial few days with the Mini El I've discovered that it
will, at a push, do 25 miles on the current lead acid pack of 3x12V,
75Ah (at C/5) batteries.
In my garage I have some 12v 66AH sealed gel batteries which I could
put in the trunk to further the range. I'd be connecting the second
set in parallel to the first.
While I know it's not a great way to increase my range (of course I'm
going to increase the weight) but the car had these batteries in when
I got it - they're only a few months old and the ones I have in the
garage were given to me a few weeks ago. They seem to hold their
charge without a problem.
Any comments or ideas as to the best way to do this? Is it wise? I
can't afford a nice new pack yet (we'll probably go for some nice
Yellow Tops for a 48 V pack along with a new controller /charger when
the current cells have had it). It would be nice to get the range
nudging 35 or 40 miles rather than 25. It also means I can run the
heater on shorter trips without risking running out! (Although I've
never got back home with a pack voltage under 35V!)
I'd appreciate any comments, good or bad!
Thanks
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Water heaters
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:54:20 -0800
Phil Marino wrote:
> 350 watts is more than enough to melt or burn things if there
> is no external airflow to take away the heat. Have you tried
> leaving the heater on (with no air flow) for an hour? Any
> damage or fire then? Let us know what happens.
Phil, I think Randy's message already addressed this. He wrote:
> >I had a fleet customer with a Nissan pick up a few years
> >(12 years) ago that had a defective heater relay and was
> >welded closed for a few months in the summer before the
> >customer noticed the extra warm air coming out of the
> >vents even with the "heat" switch turned off.
> >It had done no damage to any of the duct or the element and
> >that truck is still in his fleet with the same heater.
Cheers,
Roger.
Right. But, if the customer was feeling the heat out the vents, then the
system was allowing air flow through the heater, and that would keep the
temperatures in and around the heating element under control.
In some heating systems ( mine, for example), if the temperature control is
not set to "heat", the heater element is completely bypassed and no air
flows through it. In that case, and temperatures in and around the heater
could get much higher. This could, possibly, cause a fire, or at least some
severe damage.
My concern is that, an anecdotal report of a single failure in one
particular vehicle that didn't result in a fire or catastrophic damage does
not prove that this could never be a dangerous situation.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was looking for some battery manitenance tools and came across a battery
addative called "Battery Equaliser". The details are here:
http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-restoration/6-volt/BE32OZ.html
Basically the theory is that you add a dose to each cell to reduce
sulpherization and resistance. Has anyone used this or something like it with
any noticable improvement to performance or lifespan of their battery pack?
Thanks, Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Roland,
I have the stud type terminals as well and I looked for these on wirthco.com
with no luck. I browsed and searched by part number. Any ideas?
Thanks, Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
Hello John,
I have use the three different type of battery post. The L terminal, the
post with a hole in it and the standard auto post with a stud.
In all three I was a 2/0 size cable lug with a 3/8 hole. The L terminal
post had a recommended torque of 90 in.lbs., but would not stand up to the
pressure, they would continue to shrink back and the post would keep
getting flatten more until the this post develop cracks.
I must make a note on the ampere, I was using at the time. I was not
running a Zilla where the battery amperes would be about 50 amps and the
motor amps was 200 amps. I was running about 400 to 600 battery amps for
about 2 miles on a very steep hill to work every day.
The post with the hole in it was the worst, the surface was not large
enough and these post would squeeze down till it broke off the top
section.
Then I tried the post with studs, because I wanted to used my terminal
lugs. The torque specs call for 90 to 105 inch lbs, but right from the
start they could not withstand more than 75 inch lbs. This terminal would
mushroom and/or bulge with the head of the stud trying to come out. At
600 amps there was sometimes a lost of power, meaning the stud type had a
high shrink back because again the surface contact was not there.
To solve this problem at the time, was that I order ring type battery
connectors from Wirthco . com. These are like the marine type but is a
forge brass, with a removable bolt that is gold plate instead of the cast
in bolts. I got these for $1.75 each at the time. They could be way up
to $2.00 or more now.
The ring band on these type of terminals are narrower then the standard
rings, but have a groove spline like contact. You can torque these down
until you are blue in the face. I also use a stainless washer, lock
washer and nut on the stud on the post to provide down ward pressure on
this battery terminal and cause more internal pressure of post against the
inside of this ring type connector.
I now can torque the battery post stud to 105 inch lb or even over with
out pulling out, which the ring connector is providing pressure around the
post and the head of the stud.
The part no of these ring terminals I use is #22205 for a Positive &
Negative Pair. They come with a wing-nut, but I replace that with a
stainless steel nut and lock washer.
Later I transfer these ring terminals to my Trojan T-145's which the
battery post was at a different spacing then the US batteries, but I can
just rotate the battery clamps to fit the existing cable lugs length.
Again, I can torque all these studs and bolts until I and red and blue in
the face about 5 years ago. These forge brass ring clamps will stretch and
not break like a cast battery clamp. I check them one time in the first
year and today they are still maintaining a torque over 100 in.lbs. while
running a Zilla of which my average battery amp is now between 50 to 100
amps and sometimes peak to 180 amps.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: John<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:53 PM
Subject: Lead acid terminal types
I am in the process of procuring batteries and would like some input on
terminal types for flooded lead acid batteries. I realize ElectroAuto
recommends the 'L' style terminal and in "Convert It" they present what
looks to be a good argument against the types with a steel post
sticking out of the terminal (cold creep if you keep them tight, loose
connection, high resistance and possible fire hazard if you do not keep
them tight all the time).
I ordered a set of batteries (with L terminals) from one of the US
Battery dealers in my region, however they showed up with what look
like standard or UT terminals (with the steel post and a nut). I sent
them back and now I'm not sure the dealer is still willing to deal with
me any more.
I have since discovered my local town has a Interstate dealer that
sells what appears to be a re-branded US Battery product. The
interstate specs indicate 2 terminal types are available: auto w/ hole
or thread stud.
Is the auto with hole a suitable substitute for the 'L' terminal?
I would prefer to not use the standard automotive style because I don't
want to by the 48 terminal connectors I would need, in particular
because the "kit" I got from electroauto cam with lugs.
Thanks,
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wouldn't parallel different types of batteries. How about a battery switch.
When one set gets low, bring in the other.
----- Original Message ----
From: nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 8:25:59 AM
Subject: Parallel packs.
Hi guys and gals.
After an initial few days with the Mini El I've discovered that it
will, at a push, do 25 miles on the current lead acid pack of 3x12V,
75Ah (at C/5) batteries.
In my garage I have some 12v 66AH sealed gel batteries which I could
put in the trunk to further the range. I'd be connecting the second
set in parallel to the first.
While I know it's not a great way to increase my range (of course I'm
going to increase the weight) but the car had these batteries in when
I got it - they're only a few months old and the ones I have in the
garage were given to me a few weeks ago. They seem to hold their
charge without a problem.
Any comments or ideas as to the best way to do this? Is it wise? I
can't afford a nice new pack yet (we'll probably go for some nice
Yellow Tops for a 48 V pack along with a new controller /charger when
the current cells have had it). It would be nice to get the range
nudging 35 or 40 miles rather than 25. It also means I can run the
heater on shorter trips without risking running out! (Although I've
never got back home with a pack voltage under 35V!)
I'd appreciate any comments, good or bad!
Thanks
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
I look in there catalog again, and the cat.no. 22205 is correct for the pair.
They have a E-mail which is sales @ withco . com and a phone no:
1-800-959-0879
I call them and they sent me there catalog.
I think there is a minimum order and I think there is 50 pair of them in a box
, that are lay out like eggs in a egg crate, so they stay mirror finish.
These types of battery terminals are half the height of a standard lead type,
but have a higher contact pressure. I also push them all the way down so the
bottom is press against the bottom of the post. I am using low profile post
with studs so the top of the battery clamp flush out on top and can use a
washer, lock, and nut to provide downward pressure too.
If you have the high post type, just install them all the way down anyway. If
you want the top stud to put downward pressure on these battery clamps, cut a
collar out of a 1 inch od stainless steel tubing and place over the battery
post so it just flush with the top of the post. I got some of this tubing that
a steel company in Jersey is selling on Ebay in misc lengths. I got a 56 inch
length that cost be $56.00 which was also mirror finish. I going to used these
on my next set of batteries in 5 or 6 years from now.
WirthCo normally distributed to dealers, but tell them you do research in EV
proto type conversions and give them some technical EV name that they can put
on there order form.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Harvey<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
Hey Roland,
I have the stud type terminals as well and I looked for these on wirthco.com
with no luck. I browsed and searched by part number. Any ideas?
Thanks, Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
> Hello John,
>
> I have use the three different type of battery post. The L terminal, the
> post with a hole in it and the standard auto post with a stud.
>
> In all three I was a 2/0 size cable lug with a 3/8 hole. The L terminal
> post had a recommended torque of 90 in.lbs., but would not stand up to the
> pressure, they would continue to shrink back and the post would keep
> getting flatten more until the this post develop cracks.
>
> I must make a note on the ampere, I was using at the time. I was not
> running a Zilla where the battery amperes would be about 50 amps and the
> motor amps was 200 amps. I was running about 400 to 600 battery amps for
> about 2 miles on a very steep hill to work every day.
>
> The post with the hole in it was the worst, the surface was not large
> enough and these post would squeeze down till it broke off the top
> section.
>
> Then I tried the post with studs, because I wanted to used my terminal
> lugs. The torque specs call for 90 to 105 inch lbs, but right from the
> start they could not withstand more than 75 inch lbs. This terminal would
> mushroom and/or bulge with the head of the stud trying to come out. At
> 600 amps there was sometimes a lost of power, meaning the stud type had a
> high shrink back because again the surface contact was not there.
>
> To solve this problem at the time, was that I order ring type battery
> connectors from Wirthco . com. These are like the marine type but is a
> forge brass, with a removable bolt that is gold plate instead of the cast
> in bolts. I got these for $1.75 each at the time. They could be way up
> to $2.00 or more now.
>
> The ring band on these type of terminals are narrower then the standard
> rings, but have a groove spline like contact. You can torque these down
> until you are blue in the face. I also use a stainless washer, lock
> washer and nut on the stud on the post to provide down ward pressure on
> this battery terminal and cause more internal pressure of post against the
> inside of this ring type connector.
>
> I now can torque the battery post stud to 105 inch lb or even over with
> out pulling out, which the ring connector is providing pressure around the
> post and the head of the stud.
>
> The part no of these ring terminals I use is #22205 for a Positive &
> Negative Pair. They come with a wing-nut, but I replace that with a
> stainless steel nut and lock washer.
>
> Later I transfer these ring terminals to my Trojan T-145's which the
> battery post was at a different spacing then the US batteries, but I can
> just rotate the battery clamps to fit the existing cable lugs length.
>
> Again, I can torque all these studs and bolts until I and red and blue in
> the face about 5 years ago. These forge brass ring clamps will stretch and
> not break like a cast battery clamp. I check them one time in the first
> year and today they are still maintaining a torque over 100 in.lbs. while
> running a Zilla of which my average battery amp is now between 50 to 100
> amps and sometimes peak to 180 amps.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:53 PM
> Subject: Lead acid terminal types
>
>
> I am in the process of procuring batteries and would like some input on
> terminal types for flooded lead acid batteries. I realize ElectroAuto
> recommends the 'L' style terminal and in "Convert It" they present what
> looks to be a good argument against the types with a steel post
> sticking out of the terminal (cold creep if you keep them tight, loose
> connection, high resistance and possible fire hazard if you do not keep
> them tight all the time).
>
> I ordered a set of batteries (with L terminals) from one of the US
> Battery dealers in my region, however they showed up with what look
> like standard or UT terminals (with the steel post and a nut). I sent
> them back and now I'm not sure the dealer is still willing to deal with
> me any more.
>
> I have since discovered my local town has a Interstate dealer that
> sells what appears to be a re-branded US Battery product. The
> interstate specs indicate 2 terminal types are available: auto w/ hole
> or thread stud.
>
> Is the auto with hole a suitable substitute for the 'L' terminal?
>
> I would prefer to not use the standard automotive style because I don't
> want to by the 48 terminal connectors I would need, in particular
> because the "kit" I got from electroauto cam with lugs.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would this just be for occasional use? If so, then I wouldn't carry the
extra weight around unless you think you're going to need it.
Are the ones in the El right now flooded or gel cells?
If they are flooded, then the 66AH gel cells probably have a higher
internal resistance. This means that, early on most of the current will
come from the flooded batteries. As the flooded get discharged their
internal resistance will rise and more current will come from the gel
cells.
If the current pack is gel cells, then the current distribution should be
a bit more even.
Either way, they should work OK on dischare.
Charging is a different matter, they should be disconnected and charged as
separate strings.
> Hi guys and gals.
>
> After an initial few days with the Mini El I've discovered that it
> will, at a push, do 25 miles on the current lead acid pack of 3x12V,
> 75Ah (at C/5) batteries.
>
> In my garage I have some 12v 66AH sealed gel batteries which I could
> put in the trunk to further the range. I'd be connecting the second
> set in parallel to the first.
>
> While I know it's not a great way to increase my range (of course I'm
> going to increase the weight) but the car had these batteries in when
> I got it - they're only a few months old and the ones I have in the
> garage were given to me a few weeks ago. They seem to hold their
> charge without a problem.
>
> Any comments or ideas as to the best way to do this? Is it wise? I
> can't afford a nice new pack yet (we'll probably go for some nice
> Yellow Tops for a 48 V pack along with a new controller /charger when
> the current cells have had it). It would be nice to get the range
> nudging 35 or 40 miles rather than 25. It also means I can run the
> heater on shorter trips without risking running out! (Although I've
> never got back home with a pack voltage under 35V!)
>
> I'd appreciate any comments, good or bad!
>
> Thanks
>
> Nikki.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Old car? New tricks?
> Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
>
> E-minor isn't just a key any more...
> _______________________________
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to all who responded! This is putting me well on my way to building a
nice kart test bed.
> I have done this with a 6.6 inch diameter series motor and Curtis 275 amp
> control with 48 volts of battery.
>>SNIP<<
> Could probably get by with
> smaller electric motor, but 6.6 inchers are common.
Does anyone have an example or a link to a 6.6" motor? I am thinking about using
the Perm Motor PMG 080 one for high performance (bottom of this link):
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/marketplace_motors_perm.html
It looks like it would be a badass and very light (expensive, though). Anyone
have any experience with these motors?
--
joe vitek
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bill;
Way to go! Congrats! To all of ya! And right in Hog Heaven, Sorry,
couldn't resist. Had the weather been dry at Joliet, ya might have run those
times there?Looks like your closing in on the old Bolder Battery record of
153 or so?
A heartwarming morning read.Let us know when it hits"You Tube" YT is sure
great for getting the EV word out to the world, it's more than train /truck
crashes, and Bullet Train runbys<g>!
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 3:32 AM
Subject: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas
> We set a new record! (More on that later.)
>
> The KillaCycle team (me, Scotty Pollacheck, Steve Ciciora, Derek
> Barger, and Scot Colburn) just got back from the All Harley Drag
> Racing Association (AHDRA) event at Las Vegas. I believe that the
> KillaCycle was the very first non-Harley motorcycle ever to
> participate in the Las Vegas AHDRA event, ever. Quite an honor.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would do it as mentioned before - with a switch to bring in the other
pack. But what I would do is completely switch OUT the depleted pack.
Run completely on one pack and then switch to another pack for extended
range. If you parallel the packs the discharged pack will be partially
charged by the other pack instead of the total current going to the
motor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 10:21
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Parallel packs.
Would this just be for occasional use? If so, then I wouldn't carry the
extra weight around unless you think you're going to need it.
Are the ones in the El right now flooded or gel cells?
If they are flooded, then the 66AH gel cells probably have a higher
internal resistance. This means that, early on most of the current will
come from the flooded batteries. As the flooded get discharged their
internal resistance will rise and more current will come from the gel
cells.
If the current pack is gel cells, then the current distribution should
be a bit more even.
Either way, they should work OK on dischare.
Charging is a different matter, they should be disconnected and charged
as separate strings.
> Hi guys and gals.
>
> After an initial few days with the Mini El I've discovered that it
> will, at a push, do 25 miles on the current lead acid pack of 3x12V,
> 75Ah (at C/5) batteries.
>
> In my garage I have some 12v 66AH sealed gel batteries which I could
> put in the trunk to further the range. I'd be connecting the second
> set in parallel to the first.
>
> While I know it's not a great way to increase my range (of course I'm
> going to increase the weight) but the car had these batteries in when
> I got it - they're only a few months old and the ones I have in the
> garage were given to me a few weeks ago. They seem to hold their
> charge without a problem.
>
> Any comments or ideas as to the best way to do this? Is it wise? I
> can't afford a nice new pack yet (we'll probably go for some nice
> Yellow Tops for a 48 V pack along with a new controller /charger when
> the current cells have had it). It would be nice to get the range
> nudging 35 or 40 miles rather than 25. It also means I can run the
> heater on shorter trips without risking running out! (Although I've
> never got back home with a pack voltage under 35V!)
>
> I'd appreciate any comments, good or bad!
>
> Thanks
>
> Nikki.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Old car? New tricks?
> Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
>
> E-minor isn't just a key any more...
> _______________________________
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
I wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
long legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you notice that sometimes the Email address in the T0: ev @ list ..... is
double for some reason and at other times it is not. Some times when I or
other's send a E-mail and comes back it may be double or not.
Also the same thing happens when listing a WEB address in the email.
I call my server which is MSN and we sent E-mail back and forth and this does
not happen, it only happens when I send and reply from the EV list.
The HTTP 1 is set and also the text is set to display in plain text.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Randy said that the heater contactor was welded shut, I wonder if that
means that the heater was on even when the car was parked, or was the
main contactor cutting off the heater's current when the keyswitch was
off? If it was on while the car was parked, then that would certainly
answer your question, Phil. Randy, was the heater off when the car was
parked?
Bill Dennis
Phil Marino wrote:
Right. But, if the customer was feeling the heat out the vents, then
the system was allowing air flow through the heater, and that would
keep the temperatures in and around the heating element under control.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using the 140-01-4005 motor, available from KTA services, evparts, and
other EV dealers. I'm running a 275 amp curtis with 48 battery volts. Don't
have any experience with PM motors for a go-kart. David Roden is using some
BLDC motors, I believe.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Joe Vitek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 3:01:58 PM
Subject: Re: go kart ideas and parts sources
Thanks to all who responded! This is putting me well on my way to building a
nice kart test bed.
> I have done this with a 6.6 inch diameter series motor and Curtis 275 amp
> control with 48 volts of battery.
>>SNIP<<
> Could probably get by with
> smaller electric motor, but 6.6 inchers are common.
Does anyone have an example or a link to a 6.6" motor? I am thinking about using
the Perm Motor PMG 080 one for high performance (bottom of this link):
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/marketplace_motors_perm.html
It looks like it would be a badass and very light (expensive, though). Anyone
have any experience with these motors?
--
joe vitek
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland:
For the USBMC deep cycle batteries you should be able to get any of the
terminals shown in the link below except the "bus lug" which are available
on the 8D-HC batteries only.
http://www.usbattery.com/pages/usbterminals.htm
Please contact your dealer, or your nearest Interstate Battery System of
America, Inc., to order the batteries with the "Small L" terminals. If you
have problems with the dealer not handling your request, please contact
Christie Dellario at 1-800-695-0945.
We install any of the terminals requested on the orders.
Sincerely
Nawaz M. Qureshi
Vice-President of Engineering
US Battery Mfg. Co.
1675 Sampson Avenue
Corona, CA 92879-1889
T:951-371-8090
Fax:951-371-4671
email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Wiench [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
Hello John,
I have use the three different type of battery post. The L terminal, the
post with a hole in it and the standard auto post with a stud.
In all three I was a 2/0 size cable lug with a 3/8 hole. The L terminal
post had a recommended torque of 90 in.lbs., but would not stand up to the
pressure, they would continue to shrink back and the post would keep getting
flatten more until the this post develop cracks.
I must make a note on the ampere, I was using at the time. I was not
running a Zilla where the battery amperes would be about 50 amps and the
motor amps was 200 amps. I was running about 400 to 600 battery amps for
about 2 miles on a very steep hill to work every day.
The post with the hole in it was the worst, the surface was not large enough
and these post would squeeze down till it broke off the top section.
Then I tried the post with studs, because I wanted to used my terminal lugs.
The torque specs call for 90 to 105 inch lbs, but right from the start they
could not withstand more than 75 inch lbs. This terminal would mushroom
and/or bulge with the head of the stud trying to come out. At 600 amps
there was sometimes a lost of power, meaning the stud type had a high shrink
back because again the surface contact was not there.
To solve this problem at the time, was that I order ring type battery
connectors from Wirthco . com. These are like the marine type but is a
forge brass, with a removable bolt that is gold plate instead of the cast
in bolts. I got these for $1.75 each at the time. They could be way up to
$2.00 or more now.
The ring band on these type of terminals are narrower then the standard
rings, but have a groove spline like contact. You can torque these down
until you are blue in the face. I also use a stainless washer, lock washer
and nut on the stud on the post to provide down ward pressure on this
battery terminal and cause more internal pressure of post against the inside
of this ring type connector.
I now can torque the battery post stud to 105 inch lb or even over with out
pulling out, which the ring connector is providing pressure around the post
and the head of the stud.
The part no of these ring terminals I use is #22205 for a Positive &
Negative Pair. They come with a wing-nut, but I replace that with a
stainless steel nut and lock washer.
Later I transfer these ring terminals to my Trojan T-145's which the battery
post was at a different spacing then the US batteries, but I can just
rotate the battery clamps to fit the existing cable lugs length.
Again, I can torque all these studs and bolts until I and red and blue in
the face about 5 years ago. These forge brass ring clamps will stretch and
not break like a cast battery clamp. I check them one time in the first
year and today they are still maintaining a torque over 100 in.lbs. while
running a Zilla of which my average battery amp is now between 50 to 100
amps and sometimes peak to 180 amps.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: John<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:53 PM
Subject: Lead acid terminal types
I am in the process of procuring batteries and would like some input on
terminal types for flooded lead acid batteries. I realize ElectroAuto
recommends the 'L' style terminal and in "Convert It" they present what
looks to be a good argument against the types with a steel post
sticking out of the terminal (cold creep if you keep them tight, loose
connection, high resistance and possible fire hazard if you do not keep
them tight all the time).
I ordered a set of batteries (with L terminals) from one of the US
Battery dealers in my region, however they showed up with what look
like standard or UT terminals (with the steel post and a nut). I sent
them back and now I'm not sure the dealer is still willing to deal with
me any more.
I have since discovered my local town has a Interstate dealer that
sells what appears to be a re-branded US Battery product. The
interstate specs indicate 2 terminal types are available: auto w/ hole
or thread stud.
Is the auto with hole a suitable substitute for the 'L' terminal?
I would prefer to not use the standard automotive style because I don't
want to by the 48 terminal connectors I would need, in particular
because the "kit" I got from electroauto cam with lugs.
Thanks,
John
--- End Message ---
