--- Begin Message ---
Hi Evan,
Yeah, I did wonder about these cells myself as I saw them about 10
months back. I was wondering about getting some to test but haven't
yet got around to it. Not at £72 a pop anyway!
Nikki.
DC [EMAIL
PROTECTED])¢Ë\¢{Z{~Û×^g¬±¨ ~æjÛ.r¬jvµ§!y×âæ¯qªÝ 3 ~æjÛbâ²Û¶Èì¹çn¢yriÇ ¦ÓË StÈ*.®,¶)à±Ø¬¦V²¶¬ë,j²¢êæj)i®+jh¬lzÛh±éÝ<°51LãKa©Ý籧cºËbMessage-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:13:08 +0000
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: large NIMH available?
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Hi Nikki,
Fair point. 20% off if you buy 10 though :) Actually the price is
probably substantially lower than that if you order in quantity from
the factory - for example if you were setting up as an EV manufacturer
(hint, hint, Jerry et al!). But yes, test first..
While I remember, on the city-el battery subject, the contact can be
found on this website:
http://www.reapsystems.co.uk/
Regards
Evan
On 11/16/06, nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Evan,
>
> Yeah, I did wonder about these cells myself as I saw them about 10
> months back. I was wondering about getting some to test but haven't
> yet got around to it. Not at £72 a pop anyway!
>
> Nikki.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
> * This post contains a forbidden message format *
> * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
> * Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
> * If your postings display this message your mail program *
> * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
> ----
>
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:29:41 -0500
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Hey Roland,
Sorry for the confusion. I do have the UTLs with the studs on US-125s US
Batteries. They are mounted directly on top of the batteries. Do I need
clearance below as well? Or should I do as Lee suggests and go have Large L
posts w/ 3/8 holes cast on them?
Thanks Again.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Harvey<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:20 AM
> Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
>
>
> Hey Roland,
>
> Thanks much. I really do appreciate the help. These posts are giving me
> the
> willies. As I have the UTL posts now, it sounds like the mod you did
> would
> work for me. Im just unclear about what happens to the the existing post.
> Do
> I cut that off which just leaves the pad (3/8" by 1" as you described
> sounds
> about right). Anyway I could get a pic of what yours look like now so I
> can
> visualize?
>
> Thanks again for the info.
>
> Regards, Mike
>
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> Look at the US Battery Terminal WEB site, and you will see what at UTL
> battery terminal looks like. There is two types, either a low profile
> pad that is about 1 inch in diameter and 3/8 inch high with a stud and a
> higher large diameter with a stud.
>
> These are not the L post type.
>
> If you have the large L post, I bolt your terminal lugs right to these L
> post. If you have the hole through a negative and positive post, then
> use the positive & negative pair battery clamp by making up new cables
> with plated brass units. You can get these from EV Parts or KTA.
>
> To bolt a all positive battery clamp around the 1 inch diameter UTL pad
> which is only 3/8 inch high, you also have to provide some down pressure
> to prevent them from popping off. This requires using the stud to do this.
> If you do not have a stud, then you cannot use this of clamp around a pad.
>
> On my UTL low profile with stud, I cannot use a standard size battery
> clamp, the only thing that work for me was using the all positive type
> #22206 that clamp around the pad which use grooves in the ring, plus using
> the stud to provide downward pressure.
>
> If you go to the wirthco . com site, you will see a picture on how a lug
> type battery cable connects to these battery clamps.
>
> The UTL post pads with stud on my Trojan batteries are mounted on a
> offset lead bar that is about 2 inches long that is welded to the battery
> post, so this pad is off the surface of the by about 3/4 inch, so there
> was enough clearance to use this type of clamp.
>
>
>
> Roland
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Water heaters
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:36:25 -0500
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Hey Lee. Do you have the specs on the thermal fuse you're using? Sounds like
the right way to go.
Thanks, Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Water heaters
> Storm Connors wrote:
>> Blocking all airflow seems an extreme test.
>
> It is; but it can happen in the real world. What if there's an ice storm
> and the air intake is completely iced shut? What if fall leaves get sucked
> into the air intake, and completely block it? What if a mouse builds a
> nest (of nice combustible materials) in your air duct, right on top of the
> heater?
>
>> How did they fare with convective flow?
>
> The more air, the cooler they run.
>
>> It sounds like the voltage should be dropped to like 120v?
>
> I'm sure that at a low enough voltage, the ceramic element's temperature
> should not get hot enough even worst case to melt the plastics or start a
> fire. However, I don't know what that voltage is. Maybe 120v is OK; maybe
> less. If it's much lower, you won't get useful amounts of heat under
> normal conditions.
>
> > What would be the best way to do this?
>
> PWM (on/off switching at some duty cycle) might work. But it might also be
> that the ceramic behaves in a nonlinear fashion with respect to voltage
> (i.e. a small increase in voltage causes a large increase in temperature).
> If that were the case, you'd have to use some method that literally
> reduces the voltage -- adding an inductor and capacitor to your PWM to
> make it a true buck converter, or wiring the heater elements in series
> instead of parallel if the temperature exceeded "X".
>
> In my case, I chose to have a working thermal fuse just in case something
> went seriously wrong (like the above scenarios).
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:53:57 -0700
From: "Derek Barger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las Vegas - THE VIDEO
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The sparks are copper in the end bell of the motor vaporizing in
plasma. We picked up a bolt or other metallic object on the track or
it just couldn't take the power and let go. The sparks you see are
aimed do at the track and are bouncing off the track. The rider was
perfectly safe we have a heavy blast shield on the bike. Scotty didn't
even know anything had happened. I walked the track after all the
racing had been done. Not one sign of any copper balls or any evidence
that it had happened. But I did find 2 bolts laying on track at about
the same spot as were it happened. Evidence that the tire may have
picked up a bolt and put it in the rear motor.
Derek Barger
On 11/16/06, Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yahh... I've watched the video a half dozen times.
>
> I SECOND the question... "What are all the SPARKS.. at the end of the
> Run ????"
>
> ?
> Could it be that at 145 mph as the track goes UP-Hill... Some metal
> part of the bike scraped the ground HARD..
>
> Or maybe it is a bit of show-man-ship.... an intentional sparks - n -
> fire as the bike crosses the line.. That would be cool too..
>
> But Seriously... What Was It..???
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:53:06 -0700
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Hello Lee,
These Trojans 260 ah stay very clean, there is no terminal corrosion at all.
I use to have 1/4 epoxy coated aluminum boxes that had no ventilation and the
batteries were all tight together. It was a nightmare in trying to keep them
clean.
There would be conduction of current from any one battery post to the frame of
the vehicle.
The battery charger enclosure was bolted right to the steel body of the
vehicle.
I change all this, by building 1/4 inch thick fiberglass battery boxes which I
coated with that very thick epoxy coating that comes in a kit to recoat sinks,
tubs and showers.
The fiberglass box has a 1 inch space around the perimeter of the batteries to
the side wall and there is about 1/4 between the battery side walls.
I ventilated this battery box with a all plastic total enclose fan, the same
type this is used in inboard engine enclosures for boats. My fan is rated
for 150 CFM through a 2 inch ID PVC flexible pipe that has 1/4 inch walls.
These are normally a suction type hose.
These hoses are connected to the battery boxes by connecting to 2 inch high
pressure PVC plumbing fits that consist of street elbows and couplings, that
this hose press fit into.
Before I place the batteries in the battery box, I layer the bottom of the box
with a 1 inch thick layer of baking soda. I set the batteries right on this
compound with seems to stable the batteries. Most of the baking soda is still
powdery, with some hard crystals along the edge.
All the electronics and battery chargers are install in a fiberglass enclosure
which the only thing that is ground on the AC side is the charger enclosure.
Now there is no conductance from any battery surfaces or post to the body of
the vehicle.
There is a on-board GFIC circuit breaker between the input plug and the
charger.
The input plug and connector is a totally enclose water tight unit, that does
not self ground to the connector housing. This is a isolated unit.
The battery caps on the batteries are not a push in type, They are a locking
type with O-rings that turn on very hard.
The top of the batteries are very dry.
I only charge these batteries to 85 to 90 % about once a week, and about every
3 or 4 months, I will add water at the 80% SOC, do a equalization charging,
clean the batteries with Whitaker Battery cleaner that goes on clear and then
wipe all the surfaces of the batteries with paper towels and a paper towel wrap
around a wood paint stick to get into the tight spaces.
While the battery charging at about 5 amps or lower. I drape rubber electrical
blankets over the batteries and car body to test the battery connections link
while the charger is on. This is call a shunt test where you read the ampere
on a MA scale in parallel with the battery connector link.
You put the leads of the meter on the lead post, not on the link ends. Lets
say the amp reading is 0.01 amp on many of the connections, but one is reading
lower which means that that link has more resistance then the others.
Another way to electrical check the links, is to use a lab type ohm meter that
will read about 10 places to the left of the decimal point.
Now you take a fully insulated socket ratchet and tighten that one connection
that is ready low until it matches the others. You only have to tighten one
battery connection with a in.lbs torque wrench as a reference and then tighten
the other connections with the ratchet to match.
For
maximum safety when you do the shunt test, is that you use electrical rubber
blankets that is rated for the voltage that you are working on. Use electrical
rated rubber gloves and a insulated boots and floor. I am a electrical
technician, so I use all these products for my work.
So, if you do all of the above, you batteries should stay very clean.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
Roland Wiench wrote:
> The flag type terminals were on my 2nd battery pack from 1985 to
> 1991. They were the large ones with a 3/8 hole.
Aha... now the 3/8" ring terminal makes sense.
> The post with the hole... used to run his VW bug... did not last long.
Was this a low-voltage, high-current EV setup? If so, no wonder!
> my Trojan T-145's are a low profile post... about 1 inch in diameter
> and only 3/8 inch high... WirthCo #22206 which are all positives can
> be expanded to one inch without breaking. All the others were too
> high and could not be expanded to 1 inch ID without breaking.
>
> This terminal not only makes contact around the pad, but also
> contacts the top surface of the L pad and can torque to over 100
> inch lbs with additional downward pressure by using the top stud
> and washer tool.
OK, that makes sense. It'a a way to make the most of a bad situation.
You essentially have half an automotive post, plus a 5/16" stud terminal
in parallel. Neither by itself would do the job, but both together works.
> These battery terminals are still as bright today as when they were new.
That's good. How do you keep the acid off them from your flooded batteries?
Most gold plated stuff only has a few microinches of plating; that's
enough to look good, but is porous and lets corrosives get under it to
corrode the base metal.
Gold itself doesn't corrode; but whatever metal is in contact with it
will corrode instead.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:26:00 -0700
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Hello Mike,
If you do not have the offset lead bar that this pad does not set on, then you
cannot use these battery clamps, because they will push done on the plastic on
the battery tops.
If you have the offset lead bar that these pads set on, then you can get more
contact area on the bottom of the link, which works very good for me. I only
need to torque this studs to 75 in.lbs make a good contact.
It depends on what you want to do, if there is no place that can install the L
post like Lee said, then I would try the battery clamps. If you want to use
your existing battery links, make sure the L post are place so you existing
links will work. Measure this distance and see if the L connections need to be
move to one side abit.
If the top of the battery clamp does flush with the top of the post, in some
cases, the battery clamp will be a little higher. So I went to a fishing gear
place and got pure lead that 1/8 , 3/16, or 1/4 inch diameters that comes on a
roll like solder does.
Roll this around a long bolt, the same size bolt that is the stud, cut them and
you have a lead washer that you can place over the stud and flushes with the
top of the battery clamp. I tap it down lightly with the back in of a socket
that has the same inside diameter of the battery clamp after its install.
This puts pressure on top of the battery pad, so you do not pull out the stud.
You tighten the battery clamp just a little, and then tighten the stud with a
stainless steel washer, lock washer and nut, which will press the battery link
down into the off set bar. Then finish tightening the battery clamp and then
go back and finishing tightening the stud to the final 75 in.lbs or to the
manufactures specs.
The stud on top makes a good connections for Lee balancer unit. Install the
spade end against the lead, not on top of the stainless washer. Too much
resistance in a stainless steel connection.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Harvey<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
Hey Roland,
Sorry for the confusion. I do have the UTLs with the studs on US-125s US
Batteries. They are mounted directly on top of the batteries. Do I need
clearance below as well? Or should I do as Lee suggests and go have Large L
posts w/ 3/8 holes cast on them?
Thanks Again.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Harvey<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:20 AM
> Subject: Re: Lead acid terminal types
>
>
> Hey Roland,
>
> Thanks much. I really do appreciate the help. These posts are giving me
> the
> willies. As I have the UTL posts now, it sounds like the mod you did
> would
> work for me. Im just unclear about what happens to the the existing post.
> Do
> I cut that off which just leaves the pad (3/8" by 1" as you described
> sounds
> about right). Anyway I could get a pic of what yours look like now so I
> can
> visualize?
>
> Thanks again for the info.
>
> Regards, Mike
>
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> Look at the US Battery Terminal WEB site, and you will see what at UTL
> battery terminal looks like. There is two types, either a low profile
> pad that is about 1 inch in diameter and 3/8 inch high with a stud and a
> higher large diameter with a stud.
>
> These are not the L post type.
>
> If you have the large L post, I bolt your terminal lugs right to these L
> post. If you have the hole through a negative and positive post, then
> use the positive & negative pair battery clamp by making up new cables
> with plated brass units. You can get these from EV Parts or KTA.
>
> To bolt a all positive battery clamp around the 1 inch diameter UTL pad
> which is only 3/8 inch high, you also have to provide some down pressure
> to prevent them from popping off. This requires using the stud to do this.
> If you do not have a stud, then you cannot use this of clamp around a pad.
>
> On my UTL low profile with stud, I cannot use a standard size battery
> clamp, the only thing that work for me was using the all positive type
> #22206 that clamp around the pad which use grooves in the ring, plus using
> the stud to provide downward pressure.
>
> If you go to the wirthco . com site, you will see a picture on how a lug
> type battery cable connects to these battery clamps.
>
> The UTL post pads with stud on my Trojan batteries are mounted on a
> offset lead bar that is about 2 inches long that is welded to the battery
> post, so this pad is off the surface of the by about 3/4 inch, so there
> was enough clearance to use this type of clamp.
>
>
>
> Roland
>
>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:28:06 -0800
Subject: Re: EVLN(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
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To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mime-Version: 1.0
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I find it dascinating as well.
However it also says something else.
It says the chinese manufacturing is so advanced they can reprogram
their tools to make something at little risk.
Frankly with plastic panels and reprogramable robots mills and forming
almost every part now there simply is no retooling cost in the newest
factories.
If you go to an automated milling conference , you will see robotic arms
make a complete engine block from a solid block of metal in less than 30
minutes. It selects it's tooling heads on the fly and there are no cast
parts and it all happens in acrlyic sheilded space that is less than 10
by 10 ft and self contained. The machines cost between $150,000 and
$750,000 so they are cheap and retooling is zero cost.
It can make different models of engine blocks one right after another
because there is just a change of cad files being loaded into the
computer between each engine block.
Stamping is now similiarly advanced and you don't need a lot of time to
make stamping forms.
> Danny Miller wrote:
>> I find it fascinating that it was financially viable to tool up an
>> entire vehicle production line based on copied plans, when they had to
>> have known full well that it was likely that the real mfg would kill
>> them before too long. When you think about it, being able to tool up
>> and build an entire car as a "bandit" operation is actually pretty
>> impressive.
>
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:12:55 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: SOFC CHP
From: "Martin K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I saw it mentioned that people are interested in CHP for their homes/EVs.
This is a solid-oxide fuel cell CHP that runs on methane and propane
standard I believe. It appears to be unavailable but it claims efficiency
of 80-90% (heat+electricity)
My opinion that the lack of noise and the flexibility of fuels (methanol
and ethanol is an option I believe) makes it a good candidate when
combined with solar or other renewable energies.
--
Martin K
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:19:08 -0800
From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Changing Output Voltage on Zivan NG3 Battery Chargers
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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When I asked about this a couple of years back, I was told you have to send
it pack to Zivan USA
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: November 14, 2006 9:29 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Changing Output Voltage on Zivan NG3 Battery Chargers
Does anyone know how to change the output voltage on the Zivan NG3 line of
battery chargers? This page:
http://www.zivanusa.com/NG3BatteryCharger.htm
shows the different models, each specifically for a certain nominal voltage
battery pack ranging from 12 volts up to 312 volts. What if I wanted to go
from a 120 volt pack to a 132 volt pack? Is it possible to modify an NG3
120-18 into an NG3 132-16?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:08:34 -0500
From: Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: SOFC CHP
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Hey I guess it would be good if I gave you the link:
http://acumentrics.com/Residential.htm
--
Martin
Martin K wrote:
> I saw it mentioned that people are interested in CHP for their homes/EVs.
> This is a solid-oxide fuel cell CHP that runs on methane and propane
> standard I believe. It appears to be unavailable but it claims efficiency
> of 80-90% (heat+electricity)
> My opinion that the lack of noise and the flexibility of fuels (methanol
> and ethanol is an option I believe) makes it a good candidate when
> combined with solar or other renewable energies.
> --
> Martin K
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: large NIMH available?
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 23:32:11 +0100
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Last China NIMH cell test we made here turned into a 3 cells packs failure
from termal runaway under low charge current and low discharge current !
ask cell sample or purchase only one for testing !
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:37 PM
Subject: large NIMH available?
> I was just looking for some E-bike batteries and in searching turned up
these:
>
> http://www.eurobatteries.com/sitepages/description1.asp?id=1243&cat=NIMH
>
> 80AH Nimh cells! The data sheet is for the wrong model but it
> mentions the manufacturer (Chinese of course!):
> http://www.peacebay.com/en/product_view.asp - which lists cells up to
> 200AH.
>
> I don't know if these are actually any use or good value, but thought
> I'd pass it on as I haven't seen a mention of actual, buyable EV-size
> NiMH for a while.
>
>
> Actually, perhaps I shouldn't have posted this here, someone will
> probably run off to tell Texaco-Chevron about those bad Chinese patent
> infringers again..
>
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:14:31 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: SOFC CHP
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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On 16 Nov 2006 at 20:12, Martin K wrote:
> It appears to be unavailable but it claims efficiency of 80-90%
I've been reading about this cogeneration fuel cell for years. It's a fine
idea, I guess; but it's never been available, and I'm tempted to wonder if
it ever will be. Not much use for EVers, I'm afraid.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:59:44 -0800
Subject: Re: EVLN(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
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To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I hate it that d and f are so close on the keyboard :-)
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:49 pm, GWMobile wrote:
> I find it dascinating as well.
> However it also says something else.
> It says the chinese manufacturing is so advanced they can reprogram
> their tools to make something at little risk.
>
> Frankly with plastic panels and reprogramable robots mills and forming
> almost every part now there simply is no retooling cost in the newest
> factories.
>
> If you go to an automated milling conference , you will see robotic
> arms make a complete engine block from a solid block of metal in less
> than 30 minutes. It selects it's tooling heads on the fly and there are
> no cast parts and it all happens in acrlyic sheilded space that is less
> than 10 by 10 ft and self contained. The machines cost between $150,000
> and $750,000 so they are cheap and retooling is zero cost.
>
> It can make different models of engine blocks one right after another
> because there is just a change of cad files being loaded into the
> computer between each engine block.
>
> Stamping is now similiarly advanced and you don't need a lot of time to
> make stamping forms.
>
>> Danny Miller wrote:
>>> I find it fascinating that it was financially viable to tool up an
>>> entire vehicle production line based on copied plans, when they had
>>> to have known full well that it was likely that the real mfg would
>>> kill them before too long. When you think about it, being able to
>>> tool up and build an entire car as a "bandit" operation is actually
>>> pretty impressive.
>>
>
> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
> and the melting poles.
>
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:43:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: large NIMH available?
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
--- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was just looking for some E-bike batteries and in searching turned
> up these:
>[SNIP]
> 80AH Nimh cells! The data sheet is for the wrong model but it
> mentions the manufacturer (Chinese of course!):
> http://www.peacebay.com/en/product_view.asp - which lists cells up to
> 200AH.
> I don't know if these are actually any use or good value, but thought
> I'd pass it on as I haven't seen a mention of actual, buyable EV-size
> NiMH for a while.
Read their Memorabilia page. Pretty cool. Toshiba willing to assist.
"Better" than Panasonic...
http://www.peacebay.com/en/dashiji.asp
Stuff like:
On November 28, 2000,? F100 battery was installed in the electric car
of Beijing Industrial University and proceeded the route situation test
in Tianjin with the result of mileage 215 kilometer after 1 charging
and top speed 120 kilometer/ hour.
Peace Bay have been EV'in' for years now.
> Actually, perhaps I shouldn't have posted this here, someone will
> probably run off to tell Texaco-Chevron about those bad Chinese
> patent infringers again..
Hehe...
I think I saw another lister comment on the investment involved in
these gambles (copying cars and patented stuff.)
(BTW, one site mentioned that HuoYun actually bought a toy *model* of
the Smart to copy...)
Anyway, point is only, that several sites (if they are correct) say
HuoYon is a sub of Sinopec?
Well, Sinopec's site says their shares are "71.23% held by the State"
So when another lister says "risky for a fly-by-nighter" (paraphrasing)
re the Smart splash, well, who are we really tapping about?
And DC lawyers stopping them in their tracks? Yah, right. :)
Reports are that the HuoYun "smart" is a pale comparison.
They really need to hire on some EVDL listers at huge rates for an
all-expenses-paid "vacation" to ZiBo...
Their heart is in the right place.
Tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian
__________________________________________________
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:10:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: EVLN(DaimlerChrysler stops Chinese knock offs)
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Being China, they probably thought they could get away with it.
> There are vast numbers of products being copied in China, and
> sold worldwide despite all actions by the product's originators.
> In this case though, the auto companies are working hard to build
> factories and sell their cars *in China*. Daimler/Chrysler probably
> has a Chinese partner that is setting up a factory to sell the
> Smart in China. This means there are two *Chinese* companies
> producing the same product, and fighting over who has the
> rights to do it. The Chinese government and courts are
> much more sympathetic to this situation.
<cough cough> quote:
The main products are, passenger cars, freight carts and refrigerator
cars, three eries four-wheel electric motor vehicles. These are patents
product in China. At present, it has three whole-electrodynamic
assembly lines. 73 partners outside Shandong province are cooperating
with us. "HuoYun" Brand Four-Wheel electric motorvehicle have the
unique appearance the reasonable designs and the safely devices,so it
is better used in airports, railway stations, docks, scenic spots, golf
fields, elders, purchase for family, be on-off dutys carriage, cargo,
etc. This kind of products filled in the blank of that in Shandong
Province. They were satified with many merchants of South Africa and
Bangladesh and ordered with a long-term contracts. In order to greet to
Beijing Olympic Games in 2008,our company will give our efforts to
exploit the new products.
Chairman of the board & general manager Mr. Wang Xiaobin welcome
friends from both domestic and abroad to consult with us. Our company
will provide the whole-heartedly service for you with real strength,
classic quality and good fame.
"Shandong"... aka one hundred million or so persons. Just one province
in China. What... 3x California in souls?
An electric "steam roller" really, vs the USA or EU, to lapse into
vehicle history.
tks
Lock
Toronto
Hybrid Human/Electric Pedestrian
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:37:25 -0600
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: SOFC CHP
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Well they say 40%-50% electrical efficiency. That is impressive, as is
its ability to run off of non-fossil hydrocarbon fuels. I don't see
anything that rules out its use in an EV. Well, the size depicted seems
large and more power is needed, but we don't know if there are hardcore
limits on what kind of power density is possible or if this is just a
first-generation version.
Don't forget, being able to recharge your vehicle by adding some form of
fuel is more practical than hours of recharging for many people, as is
being able to add capacity by carrying more fuel.
I don't get this though. What is a "solid oxide fuel" when they talk
about natural gas/methane/propane/ethanol/methanol/hydrogen? None of
these come as a solid.
I see nothing but a generic cabinet here, no detailed description of
their technology, which leads me to believe this is a mock-up of
nonexistant technology again. Since if such a fuel cell were available
that lived up to these specs would solve half the world's energy
problems if it existed, I'd have expected to have heard more about it by
now.
Danny
David Roden wrote:
>On 16 Nov 2006 at 20:12, Martin K wrote:
>
>
>
>> It appears to be unavailable but it claims efficiency of 80-90%
>>
>>
>
>I've been reading about this cogeneration fuel cell for years. It's a fine
>idea, I guess; but it's never been available, and I'm tempted to wonder if
>it ever will be. Not much use for EVers, I'm afraid.
>
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EV List Assistant Administrator
>
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:11:11 -0500
From: Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: SOFC CHP
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Solid-oxide fuel cell describes the structure of the cell, not the fuel.
The cogeneration part of the equation is the most interesting,
especially for those of us that need to heat our houses 6 months of the
year.
I believe they have some working technology, I don't have any info
beside that. I'm sure it will be expensive when it comes out. I'd buy it...
--
Martin K
Danny Miller wrote:
> Well they say 40%-50% electrical efficiency. That is impressive, as
> is its ability to run off of non-fossil hydrocarbon fuels. I don't
> see anything that rules out its use in an EV. Well, the size depicted
> seems large and more power is needed, but we don't know if there are
> hardcore limits on what kind of power density is possible or if this
> is just a first-generation version.
>
> Don't forget, being able to recharge your vehicle by adding some form
> of fuel is more practical than hours of recharging for many people, as
> is being able to add capacity by carrying more fuel.
>
> I don't get this though. What is a "solid oxide fuel" when they talk
> about natural gas/methane/propane/ethanol/methanol/hydrogen? None of
> these come as a solid.
>
> I see nothing but a generic cabinet here, no detailed description of
> their technology, which leads me to believe this is a mock-up of
> nonexistant technology again. Since if such a fuel cell were
> available that lived up to these specs would solve half the world's
> energy problems if it existed, I'd have expected to have heard more
> about it by now.
>
> Danny
>
> David Roden wrote:
>
>> On 16 Nov 2006 at 20:12, Martin K wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> It appears to be unavailable but it claims efficiency of 80-90%
>>>
>>
>> I've been reading about this cogeneration fuel cell for years. It's
>> a fine idea, I guess; but it's never been available, and I'm tempted
>> to wonder if it ever will be. Not much use for EVers, I'm afraid.
>>
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EV List Assistant Administrator
>>
>>
>>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:38:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: large NIMH available?
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
And if you believe everything you read on Chinese websites; I have this
really nice bridge for sale in Brooklyn....
>
> Read their Memorabilia page. Pretty cool. Toshiba willing to assist.
> "Better" than Panasonic...
> http://www.peacebay.com/en/dashiji.asp
>
> Stuff like:
> On November 28, 2000,? F100 battery was installed in the electric car
> of Beijing Industrial University and proceeded the route situation test
> in Tianjin with the result of mileage 215 kilometer after 1 charging
> and top speed 120 kilometer/ hour.
>
> Peace Bay have been EV'in' for years now.
>
>> Actually, perhaps I shouldn't have posted this here, someone will
>> probably run off to tell Texaco-Chevron about those bad Chinese
>> patent infringers again..
>
> Hehe...
> I think I saw another lister comment on the investment involved in
> these gambles (copying cars and patented stuff.)
>
> (BTW, one site mentioned that HuoYun actually bought a toy *model* of
> the Smart to copy...)
>
> Anyway, point is only, that several sites (if they are correct) say
> HuoYon is a sub of Sinopec?
>
> Well, Sinopec's site says their shares are "71.23% held by the State"
>
> So when another lister says "risky for a fly-by-nighter" (paraphrasing)
> re the Smart splash, well, who are we really tapping about?
>
> And DC lawyers stopping them in their tracks? Yah, right. :)
>
> Reports are that the HuoYun "smart" is a pale comparison.
>
> They really need to hire on some EVDL listers at huge rates for an
> all-expenses-paid "vacation" to ZiBo...
>
> Their heart is in the right place.
>
> Tks
> Lock
> Toronto
> Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 18:03:11 -0800
From: "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: large NIMH available?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lock Hughes wrote:
> --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I was just looking for some E-bike batteries and in searching turned
>> up these:
>> [SNIP]
>> 80AH Nimh cells! The data sheet is for the wrong model but it
>> mentions the manufacturer (Chinese of course!):
>> http://www.peacebay.com/en/product_view.asp - which lists cells up to
>> 200AH.
>> I don't know if these are actually any use or good value, but thought
>> I'd pass it on as I haven't seen a mention of actual, buyable EV-size
>> NiMH for a while.
>>
FYI, these batteries can also be found here:
http://www.powerstream.com/Ni-Prism.htm
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:37:03 -0500
From: Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Flooded vs. Dry cell nicads
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Also, I seem to remember that NiCads don't parallel well. However, this
> might not be that big a deal with a drag bike, especially if you charge
> the strings separately.
I've been using the BB600's in my Elec-trak for about 2 years now. The
pack (two strings of 30 cells) balances pretty well overall (within an
ah diff on discharge that is made even on charge). About twice a year I
disconnect one string and charge them separately.
If you're planning on parallel BB600 strings I would recommend a
contactor per string (to isolate when power is off to prevent
back-charging) a shunt monitor per string, and a way to turn the strings
on one at a time for annual charge balancing.
Chris
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:22:52 -0800 (PST)
From: DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Video is on YouTube
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Bill,
Congrats on the quick run, I am sure you will have some more good runs
with the LIon pack.
Does something fly off the track at 1:12 on the youtube video?
Jimmy
> Subject: Re: Video is on YouTube (was: KillaCycle Team, Back from Las
> Vegas)
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> Very cool!
>
> What caused the plasma splash at the end of the run?
>
> > Scot Colburn just put up the awesome video on YouTube. (Scotty
> > Pollacheck's girlfriend, Susan, took this fantastic video.)
> >
> > Here's the link:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dRpAZci9m0
> >
> > And a better way to put the link on your website:
> >
> > <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie"
> > value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3dRpAZci9m0";></param><embed
> > src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3dRpAZci9m0";
> > type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="600"
> > height="350"></embed></object>
> >
> > Bill Dube'
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