EV Digest 6177
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Suppressors for EV radios
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EVs on Fox TV today
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Suppressors for EV radios
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Input on diagram please
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: New Thunder-Sky Lithium Ion Battery 30Ah - 800Ah
by "Joe Plumer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EVs on Fox TV today, Hydrogen Fule Cell
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Input on diagram please
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Input on diagram please - One more thing
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Suppressors for EV radios
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Input on diagram please
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Suppressors for EV radios
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Suppressors for EV radios
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: New Thunder-Sky Lithium Ion Battery 30Ah - 800Ah
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Suppressors for EV radios
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Suppressors for EV radios
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
James, Victor,
Am I to understand then that I should forget putting an FM radio in?
I don't mind using the cassette part of the radio as an input for my
iPod. I went for a whole year before without a decent radio in my
last car ;)
So, when designing the system for Hebe: EV I should consider
suppression at the first stages of wiring design?
Regards
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
On 29 Nov 2006, at 02:54, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
James,
You meant to say it is better because of *type* of modulation
(FM), not because the FM radio stations carrier frequency just
happen to be way higher, right?
At 100 MHz but AM mod the noise from the radio would be almost
as horrible as at 1600 kHz.
Victor
James Massey wrote:
...
If neet and tidy there may be some hope, but VHF radio (FM) will
work a lot better than SW (AM) due to the clicks not being as
strong way up the spectrum.
Hope his helps
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great! I'll link to them from the BEVOB website.
Does anyone know if these will be permanent or are they likely to be
removed in a few days? I also had some major issues viewing it on my
computer - jittery as hell. I've got a fairly large ADSL connection
which normally is fine with video... Any one put it on Youtube or
anything like that?
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
On 29 Nov 2006, at 06:27, Geopilot wrote:
That was great!
I found it by your link below but not the other one. it is off the
scroll.
Chip Gribben wrote:
Hi everyone,
Here's the link to the EV story Fox is showcasing at the Electric
Drive Transportation Association Conference in Washington DC.
They were also able to include my interview in there too.
http://www.myfoxdc.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?
contentId=1619829&version=3&locale=EN-
US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1 Also at 5:33 pm EST, Fox will run
an abbreviated segment of the EV story they ran this morning. At
least the Fox station in DC. It may be bumped though if something
newsworthy comes up, but from what the producer said they plan to
run it.
What's also cool is Fox listed on the web page the links for the
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC (EVA/DC) and NEDRA.
I haven't actually seen the story this morning but from what the
neighbors and the UPS man just told me it turned out great.
See ya!
Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
National Electric Drag Racing Association
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:33 AM 29/11/06 +0000, Nikki wrote:
James, Victor,
Am I to understand then that I should forget putting an FM radio in?
I don't mind using the cassette part of the radio as an input for my
iPod. I went for a whole year before without a decent radio in my
last car ;)
So, when designing the system for Hebe: EV I should consider
suppression at the first stages of wiring design?
Nikki
First thing, try a good quality car FM radio, it may work OK. AM is
probably wiped out, but if where you are is like most places, AM radio is
hardly worth listening to anyway :^)
When I say try a radio, just sit it on the floor/etc, connect a couple of
speakers and throw them anywhere and go for a spin around the block. If you
get acceptable results, reception-wise (you probably won't get good audio,
but you'll be able to tell if you are going to be able to get there) then
install it and enjoy. If your results are a little more marginal than you'd
like, but OK, then a little attention to the traction wiring and maybe a
filter or two on your DC/DC may be all the difference needed. If there is
no hope, then enjoy your CDs and iPod.
When designing your wiring system for your Minor, yes, attention to details
when installing can take almost no more time or cost no more money but make
a huge difference when done. You'll be able to get a lot of guidance from
this list, but in general the principles are:
Run all your traction and high voltage cables as twisted pairs wherever
possible.
If you can, install these cables in steel conduit (available in hard or
flexible), preferrably plastic coated with a connection of the steel
conduit parts to frame at one point only.
There are a lot of other things that can be done, but many of them are
dependent on your layout and components - better to make a proposal and ask
for comments.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, it seems OK, except that the 2-16V voltmeter is connected to the traction
pack. You'd probably want to make that a traction pack voltmeter, and add a
2-16 V voltmenter to the other side. Also, the 77 deg. C thermal fuse in the
heater core seems low. Might want to build it so that it is easy to get to in
case you have to replace it.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:35:42 PM
Subject: Input on diagram please
EVers,
I have been working on a EV diagram for a while and I would very much
like some input. I put it on my lame excuse for a web page where it
will stay for a month or two.
http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/
It is there as a jpg or you can just download a PDF here
http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/EVDiagram.pdf
Thanks in advance.
John
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, if $100K grand is too much, we have to wait a bit. Tesla has
revealed a bit on their plans for followup Sedan model ( i think i saw
a approximate price of ~ $60K quoted somewhere but not in the article
that follows ) :
http://1000www.autoblog.com/2006/11/24/tesla-electric-sedan-to-join-updated-roadster/
"Following the enthusiastic response from its electric Roadster
(pictured), Tesla Motors is working on a sedan. The new four-door
model is tipped to share similar dimensions and performance with the
BMW 5-Series, which, as the benchmark sports sedan, is a pretty
ambitious target.
The Tesla sedan will have the electric motor and batteries up front,
sending power down the rear wheels. Two powertrain options are
expected to be on offer, the smaller featuring a range of 200 miles,
and a more powerful version with a 300-mile range. Unlike the
Roadster, with a Lotus-built aluminum structure, the sedan is expected
to be made of steel. Tesla figures on building 10,000-20,000 sedans
each year and will be sold globally.
Along with the sedan, the roadster will undergo an update by 2010, at
which point the more powerful engine from the higher-end sedan will
also likely be offered in the two-door, giving it some serious punch.
It's a pretty shrewd move on Tesla's part to have made the Roadster
first, in the process garnering some excitement over a sportscar
before branching out into more practical applications."
On 11/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, I double checked and sure enough they took the price down. It was on
the right side of the home page. Anyway, it was $100,000 for the signature
series - which are sold out. If you click the FAQ about the price, the site
directs you to the order page. I suspect the price will come down from the
$100,000 since that figure is no longer stated. But still, that is in line
with
similar class cars. Doesn't mean I can afford one but I am certainly glad
it is
being produced!
Ken
In a message dated 11/14/2006 6:45:59 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If ya gotta ask, you can't afford it.
Lawrence Lile
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Phil Marino
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
I give up - I couldn't find the price on their website. Anyone know
what
the price of a Tesla is?
Phil
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>You don't have to wonder. Visit their website: www.teslamotors.com.
>All the info is there.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For me they still don't work.
Take this one for example:
TS-LFP400AHA 3.2V 400AH 1200A 1000 452x289x71 13.5kg US$800
To keep battery weight to 1000 lbs (454 kg) you can only get 30 of these
batteries for a
total voltage of less than 100 V for $24k. The weight has to come down, or
the voltage
has to go up to be worthwhile for me.
The AH ratings are good and are what I think should be a good minimum for a
battery.
I think it won't be long until we have better battery choices at a decent
price.
Thunder-Sky have released a new Lithium Ion battery which uses LiFeSO4 and
claim
3C continuous, 1500+ cycles and a good price. These cells look pretty
interesting if the claims have some truth in them. They are available from
Everspring.
Regards, Rod Dilkes
www.dilkes-motors.com
----- Forwarded message from "keith-Lau \\(everspring\\)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -----
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:36:18 +0800
From: "keith-Lau \\(everspring\\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "keith-Lau \\(everspring\\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Update: Lithium Ion Power Battery 30Ah - 800Ah
To: "keith-Lau \\(everspring\\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Lithium ion Re-chargeable Power Batteries
New battery models update: high capacity and high current.
BMS and
Charger availability.
a.. Introduction of TS-LFP models with 3C high continous
current,
longer life cycle and are suitable for motor drive applications. Capacity
from
30Ah to 800Ah batteries with continous current from 90A to 2400A !.
Selection and Pricing :
http://www.everspring.net/txt/product-battery-pricing.htm or the bottom of
this
page.
a.. TS-LCP models with lighter weight and smaller size have
extended the capacity to 600Ah.
Selection and Pricing :
http://www.everspring.net/txt/product-battery-pricing.htm or the bottom of
this
page.
a.. Please ask for the aggressive volume-pricing break
a.. New battery management system (BMS) module is available.
See
attached reference document.
Each BMS module can control upto 10 cells for overvoltage
charging
protection and voltage monitoring of individual cell with LCD display
panel.
BMS module - unit price US$500
Display panel - unit price US$500
a.. Custom-built matching charger for the BMS module.
The cost of a custom-built charger is US$ 750 per KW with
ordering
leadtime of 6-8 weeks in general.
For example, if you have 14 cells of 100AH cells
(TS-LCP100AHA),
in order to charge it, you need 4.25v charging voltage per cell and the
charging
current is 0.3C or 33A. Therefore, the charger will be a 14x 4.25v x 33A =
1963
watts or 2 KW. The pricing of the charger will be US$ 1,500.
See the BMS and charger in action:
http://www.everspring.net/charger/
Best Regards,
Keith Lau
Director
Everspring Global Ltd.
Hong Kong. Dubai. Austria
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- LITHIUM ION RE-CHARGEABLE POWER BATTERY Selection Guide and
Pricing (in US$)
TS-Series LCP model Lithium ion Power Batteries
Light weight, small size, high current, high capacity at high
current, and are suitable for battery backup applications.
Nominal Nominal Max Discharge Cycle Life Dimension
Weight List Price
Voltage capacity Current (80%DOD) (mm) (Kg)
US$
@ 0.3C (Continuous)
TS-LCP50AHA 3.6V 50AH 15A 300 190x116x46 1.6kg
US$100
TS-LCP90AHA 3.6V 90AH 30A 300 215x115x61 2.4kg
US$180
TS-LCP100AHA 3.6V 100AH 33A 300 220x145x61 3.0kg
US$200
TS-LCP200AHA 3.6V 200AH 66A 300 285x182x71 5.5kg
US$400
TS-LCP600AHA 3.6V 600AH 200A 300 452x288x71
14.8kg
US$1,500
TS-Series LFP model Lithium ion Power Batteries
3C high current, high capacity at high current, longer life
cycle
and are suitable for motor drive applications.
Nominal Nominal Max Discharge Cycle Life Dimension
Weight
List Price
Voltage capacity Current (80%DOD) (mm)
(Kg) US$
@ 0.3C (Continuous)
TS-LFP30AHA 3.2V 30AH 90A 1000 180x160x46 1.6kg
US$60
TS-LFP80AHA 3.2V 80AH 240A 1000 220x145x61 3.0kg
US$160
TS-LFP150AHA 3.2V 150AH 450A 1000 285x182x71 5.3kg
US$300
TS-LFP400AHA 3.2V 400AH 1200A 1000 452x289x71 13.5kg
US$800
TS-LFP800AHA 3.2V 800AH 2400A 1000 850x289x71 25kg
US$2,000
TS-Series LCP model vs LFP model LCP model LFP
model
Operating Voltage: 2.8-4.25V 2.0-4.2V
Nominal Voltage: 3.6V 3.2V
Max Discharge Current (Continuous): 0.3 C 3 C (C =
rated A)
Max Discharge Current (pulse): 3 C 5 C (C = rated A)
Maximum Charge Current: 0.3 C 0.3 C (C = rated A)
Cycle Life: (80%DOD) 300 1000
Cycle Life: (70%DOD) 500 1500
Size over Norminal Capacity 33% larger
Weight over Norminal Capacity 20% heavier
Flame retarded Better
Best Applications Energy storage Motor drive
Volume (Ah) Discount on List Price
Per Order Discount %
less than AH ?
200 0.00%
1,000 5.00%
3,000 7.00%
5,000 10.00%
10,000 15.00%
15,000 20.00%
20,000 25.00%
40,000 28.00%
60,000 30.00%
80,000 30.00%
100,000 32.00%
200,000 33.00%
400,000 34.00%
600,000 36.00%
800,000 38.00%
1,000,000 40.00%
----- End forwarded message -----
_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was amazed that the video in the middle from your link below on Honda's
fuel cell vehicle actually stressed the fact that the vehicle was an
electric vehicle. I have never seen this reported on in any media before. It
is always something like: "Well electric cars will not happen but the
hydrogen fuel cell car looks very promising". I am so glad that there is
actually some honest reporting going on somewhere on this planet. The false
reporting has been very damaging to the acceptance of EVs.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geopilot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: EVs on Fox TV today
That was great!
I found it by your link below but not the other one. it is off the scroll.
Chip Gribben wrote:
Hi everyone,
Here's the link to the EV story Fox is showcasing at the Electric Drive
Transportation Association Conference in Washington DC.
They were also able to include my interview in there too.
http://www.myfoxdc.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=1619829&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1
Also at 5:33 pm EST, Fox will run an abbreviated segment of the EV story
they ran this morning. At least the Fox station in DC. It may be bumped
though if something newsworthy comes up, but from what the producer said
they plan to run it.
What's also cool is Fox listed on the web page the links for the Electric
Vehicle Association of Washington DC (EVA/DC) and NEDRA.
I haven't actually seen the story this morning but from what the
neighbors and the UPS man just told me it turned out great.
See ya!
Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
National Electric Drag Racing Association
http://www.nedra.com
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--- Begin Message ---
From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Input on diagram please
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:35:42 -0500
EVers,
I have been working on a EV diagram for a while and I would very much like
some input. I put it on my lame excuse for a web page where it will stay
for a month or two.
http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/
It is there as a jpg or you can just download a PDF here
http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/EVDiagram.pdf
Thanks in advance.
John
Johm- It looks like you are using the motor-side shunt to measure current,
but not the battery-side shunt. Is that because you only have space for
one current meter in the dash- or was it just left off the diaram by
mistake?
It may be more useful to monitor battery current than motor current ( esp.
if you have flooded battereis, where you want to be aware of the max current
you're drawing)
Also, you show a capacitor (labeled as "diode on contactor")in the ground
lead of the contactor coil. I think that coil lead should to right to
ground.
But, you should have something across the contactor coil to limit the spike
voltage when the coil power is turned off. A good solution for this ( much
better than a single diode, which will delay the contactor opening, and
cause arcing and contact wear) is a zener diode ( 24 V or so) and a regular
diode in series ( back-to-back) across the coil. This will limit the
transient voltage to about the zener voltage, but still allow fast opening
of the contacts.
Phl
_________________________________________________________________
Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends
list.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: Input on diagram please
One more thing, I forgot to tell you, is that you can use the Zilla hairball
tach output to a tach and program the hairball for AMP ON TACH. This reads
the motor amp which I think is the most important instrument that is large
and right in front of you.
To program for Amps On Tach, in the Option Menu, you turn a) off and k) on
for reading Amps on Tach.
You do not need a speed sensor for Amps on Tach.
You can also install a separate speed sensor design for a tach (which does
not go through the Hairball, but go directly to the tach, then use a two
position switch to select tach or motor amps.
If you want to read RPM with a motor sensor connected to the Hairball, then
you need a motor speed sensor connected to motor speed 1 on the Hairball,
then turn a) on and k) off for reading rpm on tach.
I had install a separate small motor amp meter which was to one side, but I
rather use the Amps on Tach.
At low speed, you may find that the motor amps is at 200 amps, the battery
amps will be at 50 amps. The higher the speed at about 60 mph the motor and
battery amperes will be about the same. Then it's become important to motor
the battery ampere, as so you do not melt the battery connections off.
After many years of driving, I know what my RPM is by reading the Speedo
indicator. You can use the following formula to determine the RPM at the
MPH.
MPH x Overall Gear Ratio x 1056
RPM = ---------------------------------
Wheel Circumference
Overall gear ratio in each gear is the ratio of that gear times the
differential gear.
Roland
> Hello John,
>
> One thing I would add is two safety contactors that is install on the
> lines from the battery pack negative and positive that goes to the main
> contactor and controller.
>
> The heater circuits should tap off the lines between the safety contactors
> and controller and the DC-DC unit comes off the battery pack controller a
> control switch.
>
> The reason for the safety contactors, is that they are off while you
> battery charger is on. Charging 144 volts of battery can get over 180
> volts and you have the charging voltage suppress on this units.
>
> AT one time I had a arc over in my dc-dc unit and the commentator of the
> motor to the motor shaft while I was charging.
>
> Also A battery voltmeter and amp meter circuit would come off between the
> safety contactor and controller if you are not using a E-meter.
>
> Its also a safety thing, if your controller or accelerator unit does not
> shut down, then you can shut down these safety contactors with a separate
> switch.
>
> If you DC-DC is design to accept over 180 volts, then you can connected
> directly to the battery pack, maybe with a control switch.
>
> There should be Zener Overvoltage Transient Suppressors which are
> Bidirectional and connected across the coil of the main contactor or any
> contactor. These are NTE4990 to NET4999 which are rated for the voltages
> you are using. You want one that is rated around 36 volts for a 12 volt
> coil. I tried to run the main contactor directly off the Hairball and
> took out this circuit. I end up using Square D glass plug in relay that
> draws on 0.01 amp to control a contactor coil that was pulling about 5
> amp.
>
> Ran the 12 volts from my ignition switch directly to the relay which then
> goes to the contactors.
>
> To turn on my two safety contactors, my ignition switch in the ignition
> position turns on power to the Hairball and turns on a glass plug in relay
> that turns on the two safety contactors
>
> Between this relay and the safety contactors, I also have a in console
> switch that I normally leave on all the time, but can use it as a kill
> switch.
>
> I also have a back up switch in the console for every circuit in the EV.
> I normally leave them on, but if I turn them off, they act like a cypher
> system, which you have to switch 42 switches in the correct position to
> get the the EV to run. Push the wrong one and a siren goes off or other
> alarms, remotes and etc will go off.
>
> I am using special contactors that are design for EV at the different
> voltages that are use. My are rated at 180 volts, but will operated the
> coils at 240 volts, which is the maximum charge voltage, and can drop all
> the way down to 11 volts and still hold the contactor close.
>
> The contactor then will not come on until the voltage rises to 165 volts
> which is the battery pack minimum volts anyway.
>
> If you are using contactors with 12 volts coil, then you will have to
> either have the DC-DC unit connected to the battery pack all the time or
> connect to the battery pack with a switch if it not rated higher than 180
> volts so it's not connected while the battery charger is on.
>
> I ground my Hairball the same way you did, but the voltage from ground
> negative to positive was too low. So, I had to remove the paint with a
> rotary file that has a pilot point design for chassis work. I ran a
> ground counter poise system, where I came of Pin No. 1 to the ground point
> on the hairball, then jumper to the the flange on the Zilla, went around
> to the other side and ground both flanges of the zilla and Hairball again.
> From this point went to the vehicle ground counter poise system which is a
> buss system made of No 4 wire.
>
> Also came off the Hairball Pin #1 again and ran a no 10 AWG ground wire to
> the vehicle counter poise system. My voltage came up from 12.1 to 14.5
> volts.
>
> When doing circuit drawing, it is best to use three different types, the
> block diagram, the schematic, and the actual wiring layout as it would
> look if you are looking at it.
>
> Years later if you have to trouble shoot or do a mod, then I find the
> actual wiring layout is the best to use at times.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:35 PM
> Subject: Input on diagram please
>
>
> > EVers,
> >
> > I have been working on a EV diagram for a while and I would very much
> > like some input. I put it on my lame excuse for a web page where it
> > will stay for a month or two.
> >
> > http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/
> >
> > It is there as a jpg or you can just download a PDF here
> >
> > http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/EVDiagram.pdf
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
I am using a Sony AM/FM/TAPE/DISC with a remote. It is in a steel enclosure
which is place inside another frame enclosure that has addition covers to
blank out the face, so it looks like a blank panel on the dash. It uses
double shield speaker wires that are place in a separate conduit, which you
can make out of aluminum tubing that does not run into the dash compartment,
but runs in the console to behind the driver on a sound bar which the
speakers are enclosed in vinyl cover metal enclosure.
This places the speakers as far away from the motor and motor controller as
possible.
I do not have any noise on the AM at all except if I drive under a 500k volt
power line.
Again you must have a good counter poise ground system. Do not relied on
any devices in your vehicle to use chassis ground. I run a no. 4 AWG
stranded copper wire off the negative of a DC-DC and/or negative of a
battery and loop it around the perimeter of the vehicle with grounding
points for all devices to tap off.
Some grounding circuits may require a separate wire directly to a DC ground
source which also may have to be shield.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: Suppressors for EV radios
> At 07:33 AM 29/11/06 +0000, Nikki wrote:
> >James, Victor,
> >
> >Am I to understand then that I should forget putting an FM radio in?
> >I don't mind using the cassette part of the radio as an input for my
> >iPod. I went for a whole year before without a decent radio in my
> >last car ;)
> >
> >So, when designing the system for Hebe: EV I should consider
> >suppression at the first stages of wiring design?
>
> Nikki
>
> First thing, try a good quality car FM radio, it may work OK. AM is
> probably wiped out, but if where you are is like most places, AM radio is
> hardly worth listening to anyway :^)
>
> When I say try a radio, just sit it on the floor/etc, connect a couple of
> speakers and throw them anywhere and go for a spin around the block. If
> you
> get acceptable results, reception-wise (you probably won't get good audio,
> but you'll be able to tell if you are going to be able to get there) then
> install it and enjoy. If your results are a little more marginal than
> you'd
> like, but OK, then a little attention to the traction wiring and maybe a
> filter or two on your DC/DC may be all the difference needed. If there is
> no hope, then enjoy your CDs and iPod.
>
> When designing your wiring system for your Minor, yes, attention to
> details
> when installing can take almost no more time or cost no more money but
> make
> a huge difference when done. You'll be able to get a lot of guidance from
> this list, but in general the principles are:
>
> Run all your traction and high voltage cables as twisted pairs wherever
> possible.
> If you can, install these cables in steel conduit (available in hard or
> flexible), preferrably plastic coated with a connection of the steel
> conduit parts to frame at one point only.
>
> There are a lot of other things that can be done, but many of them are
> dependent on your layout and components - better to make a proposal and
> ask
> for comments.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Really nice job laying out the circuit. After you do the minor tweaks that
Roland and the others suggested, how about posting a link again to the diagram?
It is a fine enough job I would like to use it on "Saabrina" Other than mine
possibly being 156V it is more or less the same thing I had in mind.
Thanks!
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
---- John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> EVers,
>
> I have been working on a EV diagram for a while and I would very much
> like some input. I put it on my lame excuse for a web page where it
> will stay for a month or two.
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/
>
> It is there as a jpg or you can just download a PDF here
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/EVDiagram.pdf
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> John
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
>> VHF radio (FM) will work a lot better than SW (AM) due to the
>> clicks not being as strong way up the spectrum.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
You meant to say it is better because of *type* of modulation
(FM), not because the FM radio stations carrier frequency just
happen to be way higher, right?
At 100 MHz but AM, mod the noise from the radio would be almost
as horrible as at 1600 kHz.
Actually, no. AM is used on VHF radio for some services (notably
television and aircraft radio); it has a little more noise than FM, but
not much.
Broadcast FM radio owes most of its noise immunity to being higher
frequency (so impulse noise is greatly weaker), and to being wideband
(many times wider per channel than broadcast AM).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
nikki wrote:
Am I to understand then that I should forget putting an FM radio in? I
don't mind using the cassette part of the radio as an input for my iPod.
I went for a whole year before without a decent radio in my last car ;)
So, when designing the system for Hebe: EV I should consider suppression
at the first stages of wiring design?
If you consider RFI early, and take measures to reduce it, you certainly
can have both AM and FM radio in your EV. Many EVs have been built with
radios that work normally. The key points are:
- Put noisy things in 6-sided metal boxes (ventilation holes are
OK as long as they are small).
- Closely bundle wires in pairs. Twist them together if possible.
Putting them inside a grounded metal shield is even better (conduit,
braided shielding, or even tinfoil works).
- Use RFI filters (inductor and capacitor) on particularly noisy
items, like across the brushes of brushed motors.
You can often find the source of your noise, and the particular wires
that are serving as antennas to radiate that noise, by probing around
with a small handheld AM radio, tuned between stations.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about this then...
TS-LFP150AHA 3.2V 150AH 450A 1000 285x182x71 5.3kg
100 cells gives you a 530kg pack, 320V, 48kWh, >100kw for $30k or less
than 10 cents per mile assuming 200 mile range and 1500 cycles.
Probably much less since you're not likely to go 200 miles between
every charge.
Alternatively
TS-LFP80AHA 3.2V 80AH 240A 1000 220x145x61 3.0kg
How about this then...
TS-LFP150AHA 3.2V 150AH 450A 1000 285x182x71 5.3kg
300kg, 320V >50kW, 24kWh, $14k.
Personally I wouldn't buy them at this time since it's a lot of money
to spend on a pack that may not perform as advertised.
On 11/29/06, Joe Plumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
For me they still don't work.
Take this one for example:
TS-LFP400AHA 3.2V 400AH 1200A 1000 452x289x71 13.5kg US$800
To keep battery weight to 1000 lbs (454 kg) you can only get 30 of these
batteries for a
total voltage of less than 100 V for $24k. The weight has to come down, or
the voltage
has to go up to be worthwhile for me.
The AH ratings are good and are what I think should be a good minimum for a
battery.
I think it won't be long until we have better battery choices at a decent
price.
>
>
>Thunder-Sky have released a new Lithium Ion battery which uses LiFeSO4 and
>claim
>3C continuous, 1500+ cycles and a good price. These cells look pretty
>interesting if the claims have some truth in them. They are available from
>Everspring.
>
>Regards, Rod Dilkes
>www.dilkes-motors.com
>
>----- Forwarded message from "keith-Lau \\(everspring\\)"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -----
> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:36:18 +0800
> From: "keith-Lau \\(everspring\\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "keith-Lau \\(everspring\\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Update: Lithium Ion Power Battery 30Ah - 800Ah
> To: "keith-Lau \\(everspring\\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
> Lithium ion Re-chargeable Power Batteries
>
> New battery models update: high capacity and high current.
>BMS and
>Charger availability.
>
>
>
> a.. Introduction of TS-LFP models with 3C high continous
>current,
>longer life cycle and are suitable for motor drive applications. Capacity
>from
>30Ah to 800Ah batteries with continous current from 90A to 2400A !.
> Selection and Pricing :
>http://www.everspring.net/txt/product-battery-pricing.htm or the bottom of
>this
>page.
>
>
>
> a.. TS-LCP models with lighter weight and smaller size have
>extended the capacity to 600Ah.
> Selection and Pricing :
>http://www.everspring.net/txt/product-battery-pricing.htm or the bottom of
>this
>page.
>
>
>
> a.. Please ask for the aggressive volume-pricing break
>
>
> a.. New battery management system (BMS) module is available.
>See
>attached reference document.
> Each BMS module can control upto 10 cells for overvoltage
>charging
>protection and voltage monitoring of individual cell with LCD display
>panel.
>
> BMS module - unit price US$500
>
> Display panel - unit price US$500
>
> a.. Custom-built matching charger for the BMS module.
> The cost of a custom-built charger is US$ 750 per KW with
>ordering
>leadtime of 6-8 weeks in general.
>
> For example, if you have 14 cells of 100AH cells
>(TS-LCP100AHA),
>in order to charge it, you need 4.25v charging voltage per cell and the
>charging
>current is 0.3C or 33A. Therefore, the charger will be a 14x 4.25v x 33A =
>1963
>watts or 2 KW. The pricing of the charger will be US$ 1,500.
>
>
> See the BMS and charger in action:
>http://www.everspring.net/charger/
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Keith Lau
>
> Director
>
> Everspring Global Ltd.
>
> Hong Kong. Dubai. Austria
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> - LITHIUM ION RE-CHARGEABLE POWER BATTERY Selection Guide and
>Pricing (in US$)
>
>
>
> TS-Series LCP model Lithium ion Power Batteries
>
> Light weight, small size, high current, high capacity at high
>current, and are suitable for battery backup applications.
>
>
>
>
> Nominal Nominal Max Discharge Cycle Life Dimension
>Weight List Price
> Voltage capacity Current (80%DOD) (mm) (Kg)
>US$
> @ 0.3C (Continuous)
>
>
> TS-LCP50AHA 3.6V 50AH 15A 300 190x116x46 1.6kg
>US$100
>
> TS-LCP90AHA 3.6V 90AH 30A 300 215x115x61 2.4kg
>US$180
>
> TS-LCP100AHA 3.6V 100AH 33A 300 220x145x61 3.0kg
> US$200
>
> TS-LCP200AHA 3.6V 200AH 66A 300 285x182x71 5.5kg
> US$400
>
> TS-LCP600AHA 3.6V 600AH 200A 300 452x288x71
>14.8kg
>US$1,500
>
> TS-Series LFP model Lithium ion Power Batteries
>
> 3C high current, high capacity at high current, longer life
>cycle
>and are suitable for motor drive applications.
>
> Nominal Nominal Max Discharge Cycle Life Dimension
>Weight
> List Price
> Voltage capacity Current (80%DOD) (mm)
>(Kg) US$
> @ 0.3C (Continuous)
>
>
> TS-LFP30AHA 3.2V 30AH 90A 1000 180x160x46 1.6kg
>US$60
>
> TS-LFP80AHA 3.2V 80AH 240A 1000 220x145x61 3.0kg
>US$160
>
> TS-LFP150AHA 3.2V 150AH 450A 1000 285x182x71 5.3kg
>US$300
>
> TS-LFP400AHA 3.2V 400AH 1200A 1000 452x289x71 13.5kg
>US$800
>
> TS-LFP800AHA 3.2V 800AH 2400A 1000 850x289x71 25kg
>US$2,000
>
> TS-Series LCP model vs LFP model LCP model LFP
>model
>
>
> Operating Voltage: 2.8-4.25V 2.0-4.2V
>
> Nominal Voltage: 3.6V 3.2V
>
>
> Max Discharge Current (Continuous): 0.3 C 3 C (C =
>rated A)
>
> Max Discharge Current (pulse): 3 C 5 C (C = rated A)
>
> Maximum Charge Current: 0.3 C 0.3 C (C = rated A)
>
> Cycle Life: (80%DOD) 300 1000
>
> Cycle Life: (70%DOD) 500 1500
>
> Size over Norminal Capacity 33% larger
>
> Weight over Norminal Capacity 20% heavier
>
> Flame retarded Better
>
> Best Applications Energy storage Motor drive
>
>
> Volume (Ah) Discount on List Price
>
> Per Order Discount %
> less than AH ?
> 200 0.00%
> 1,000 5.00%
> 3,000 7.00%
> 5,000 10.00%
> 10,000 15.00%
> 15,000 20.00%
> 20,000 25.00%
> 40,000 28.00%
> 60,000 30.00%
> 80,000 30.00%
> 100,000 32.00%
> 200,000 33.00%
> 400,000 34.00%
> 600,000 36.00%
> 800,000 38.00%
> 1,000,000 40.00%
>
>
>----- End forwarded message -----
>
_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought a lot of the noise difference between AM and FM was due to the type
of modulation. In AM
the data is determined by changing the amplitude of the wave. In FM the data is
determined by
changing the frequency of the wave. AM is noisier because interference, like
lightning, causes
spikes in the wave, affecting the amplitutde and thus the information being
broadcast. FM isn't
affected in the same way.
Yes/no?
Dave Cover
> >> VHF radio (FM) will work a lot better than SW (AM) due to the
> >> clicks not being as strong way up the spectrum.
>
> > You meant to say it is better because of *type* of modulation
> > (FM), not because the FM radio stations carrier frequency just
> > happen to be way higher, right?
> >
> > At 100 MHz but AM, mod the noise from the radio would be almost
> > as horrible as at 1600 kHz.
>
> Actually, no. AM is used on VHF radio for some services (notably
> television and aircraft radio); it has a little more noise than FM, but
> not much.
>
> Broadcast FM radio owes most of its noise immunity to being higher
> frequency (so impulse noise is greatly weaker), and to being wideband
> (many times wider per channel than broadcast AM).
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Suppressors for EV radios
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:25:25 -0800 (PST)
I thought a lot of the noise difference between AM and FM was due to the
type of modulation. In AM
the data is determined by changing the amplitude of the wave. In FM the
data is determined by
changing the frequency of the wave. AM is noisier because interference,
like lightning, causes
spikes in the wave, affecting the amplitutde and thus the information being
broadcast. FM isn't
affected in the same way.
Yes/no?
Yes - well said.
Phil
Dave Cover
> >> VHF radio (FM) will work a lot better than SW (AM) due to the
> >> clicks not being as strong way up the spectrum.
>
> > You meant to say it is better because of *type* of modulation
> > (FM), not because the FM radio stations carrier frequency just
> > happen to be way higher, right?
> >
> > At 100 MHz but AM, mod the noise from the radio would be almost
> > as horrible as at 1600 kHz.
>
> Actually, no. AM is used on VHF radio for some services (notably
> television and aircraft radio); it has a little more noise than FM, but
> not much.
>
> Broadcast FM radio owes most of its noise immunity to being higher
> frequency (so impulse noise is greatly weaker), and to being wideband
> (many times wider per channel than broadcast AM).
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now.
http://ideas.live.com
--- End Message ---
