EV Digest 6179
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Using AA's NiMH instead of Lead Acid?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Input on diagram please
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Controller on e-bay <$20
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Input on diagram please
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Curtis Potbox Pb-8 Pot replacement.
by "Peter Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Noise Suppression in EV's
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: [EV] Controller on e-bay <$20
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Geo Metros
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Geo Metros
by Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Nicad resetting
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Using AA's NiMH instead of Lead Acid?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Geo Metros
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Was this the expected GM announcement?
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Geo Metros
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) My Electric Cobra Will Be at AltCarExpo Dec 9-10
by "Michael T Kadie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Clutch selection...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) RE: Geo Metros - Clutchless?
by Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Some KillaCycle Pictures
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Nicad resetting
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Clutch selection...
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Nicad resetting
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Clutch selection...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: Nicad resetting
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Nicad resetting
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Was this the expected GM announcement?
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Geo Metros
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Nicad resetting
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: A ffriend of mine needs help with his controller for motor 5bt2366c11
in 1974 EVA Metro
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Input on diagram please
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Curtis Potbox Pb-8 Pot replacement.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Suppressors for EV radios
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well, there are other great benefits of NiMH/NiCd vs lead-acid.
They don't mind the deep discharges. If you have a 10KWH lead-acid but
through Peukert's and the desire to avoid deep discharge that you decide
not to use below 50%, well, you've only got a 5KWH battery there as far
as range and cost per KWH are concerned. Almost all the NiMH/NiCd
capacity is usable.
I think I heard NiMH/NiCd lose less capacity than lead-acid in cold
temperatures, but I have no numbers on that.
But again the basic problem is it's impractical to gang up many small
cells of this type.
Danny
Tony Hwang wrote:
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the info about the UB12750's, I'm probably going to end up using them. A 5%
failure rate, that's pretty bad! I have no doubts that prices/performance will improve
for battery technology, I just want something NOW. :) With lead-acid being so
"cheap", I guess it still wins out.
- Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I assume that you have the battery current shunt there to
connect an Emeter - the reason that also the charging
current goes through the same shunt in the opposite
direction?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Input on diagram please
Here a few things to consider:
If you can, put the breaker in the middle of the pack, so that when it is
switched, the total voltage will be 72 volts
Is it possible to have only a single shunt? This will reduce resistance in
the main motor circuit.
I seem to recall that a diode might be needed on the motor blower relay.
Hopefully Lee can comment.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John
Sent: November 28, 2006 7:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Input on diagram please
EVers,
I have been working on a EV diagram for a while and I would very much like
some input. I put it on my lame excuse for a web page where it will stay for
a month or two.
http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/
It is there as a jpg or you can just download a PDF here
http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/EVDiagram.pdf
Thanks in advance.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
GE EV-1 Control Card with SCR board Item number: 230056795179
I was bidding on it, but I have too many of these already. For $10, I
figured I'd get it. But, it went a little higher.
I believe it to be an EV-1C based on the picture. If it is, that is a decent
controller for an EV. But, it does have the 24-48 V control card, so you would
have to get a new one of those. Still, EV-1C controllers are hard to get. I
can't be sure because I don't have the model number, but looking at all mine
and the Flight System's manual, I'd have to say its an EV-1C. For, $20, maybe
its worth something.
Steve
---------------------------------
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, JP.
You wrote:
"The voltmeter listed as 6-16 should be labeled 115 - 175 it is intended
to be my traction pack volt meter.
I need to add a 6-16 volt gage for my accessory system.
Is there anything wrong with moving the traction pack volt meter
connections to the input side of the DC/DC and then the accessory
system 6-16 volt meter on the DC/DC output side? (I think this is what
Dave B. suggested)"
That would work (your DC-DC should be an isolated model), but it may give you
unusually optimistic readings on the 12V side. It would be better to connect
it to the auxilliary battery. this could be done at the existing fuse panel if
you desire.
Regarding the contactor, you wrote:
"JPOC: How would this be represented using the symbols I have here. On
the actual contactor there are 4 tabs, 2 connected with what I believe
is a diode, and the other 2 power the coil (I assume that is the way it
works anyway)"
The albright contactors come with a diode already installed (not always
correctly installed, I might add - I had one that was backwards from the
factory and so burned out on the first cycle). The tabs are connected to each
other in pairs. This gives them extra tabs so they can easily put a diode
across one pair and hook the switched power to the other. The diode is in
parallel with the coil, not in series with it. There are several alternatives
to using a diode. They are discussed at
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/appnotes/app_pdfs/13c3311.pdf.
Regarding the KTA supression system on the heater relays, I have used their
relays, wired as they recommend, on multiple systems, and have had no problems.
The diode isn't across the heater relay coil, it is across the relay output to
the heater. I believe your diagram was correct.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear All
My Curtis Potbox pb-8 0-5k Pot needs replacing. PN 89191 anyone have one in
the UK or part no of an equivalent replacement please. Fairly urgent as van
is off road until replaced, Curtis UK have a minimum order level of
£50.00!!! Part is a Clarostat Marked PMC98191 CM44675 200124 5k linear.
Thanks Peter
www.solarvan.co.uk
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/559 - Release Date: 30/11/2006
05:07
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, I always ty-rap the power battery cables together (cancels EMI) and run
them under the right side of the EV and bundle the control wiring under the
left side. The controller should be mounted as close to the motor as possible
since the interface cabling is the main source of EMI. Less than a foot if
possible. I can listen to AM no problem (but always listen to NPR 89.1-FM).
BTW, I bought a Porsche 914 cheap ($900) on account of a few slight defects,
the right rear wheel fell off and the frame sagged in half. I'm welding on a
new trailing arm and was curious if the rear tow in should be straight or about
1/8" tow in.
Thanks,
Mark in Roanoke, VA
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:39:07 -0800 Subject: Re: Suppressors for
EV radios To: [email protected] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From:
"GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to
Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
You are correct. Fm is always quieter regardless of the frequency. On
Wed, 29 Nov 2006 9:31 am, Dave Cover wrote: > I thought a lot of the noise
difference between AM and FM was due to > the type of modulation. In AM >
the data is determined by changing the amplitude of the wave. In FM the >
data is determined by > changing the frequency of the wave. AM is noisier
because interference, > like lightning, causes > spikes in the wave,
affecting the amplitutde and thus the information > being broadcast. FM isn't
> affected in the same way. > > Yes/no? > > Dave Cover >> >> VHF radio
(FM) will work a lot better than SW (AM) due to the >> >> clicks not being
as strong way up the spectrum. >> >> > You meant to say it is better because
of *type* of modulation >> > (FM), not because the FM radio stations carrier
frequency just >> > happen to be way higher, right? >> > >> > At 100 MHz
but AM, mod the noise from the radio would be almost >>
> as horrible as at 1600 kHz. >> >> Actually, no. AM is used on VHF radio
> for some services (notably >> television and aircraft radio); it has a
> little more noise than FM, >> but >> not much. >> >> Broadcast FM
> radio owes most of its noise immunity to being higher >> frequency (so
> impulse noise is greatly weaker), and to being wideband >> (many times
> wider per channel than broadcast AM). >> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily
> images about hurricanes, globalwarming and the melting poles.
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 03:13:33AM -0800, Steve Powers wrote:
> GE EV-1 Control Card with SCR board Item number: 230056795179
>
> I was bidding on it, but I have too many of these already. For $10, I
> figured I'd get it. But, it went a little higher.
>
> I believe it to be an EV-1C based on the picture. If it is, that is a
> decent controller for an EV. But, it does have the 24-48 V control card, so
> you would have to get a new one of those. Still, EV-1C controllers are hard
> to get. I can't be sure because I don't have the model number, but looking
> at all mine and the Flight System's manual, I'd have to say its an EV-1C.
> For, $20, maybe its worth something.
>
sounds interesting for my early testing purposes.
can you please point me to info on how to use one of those? manuals or
other info?
is it possible to modify it for 96 votls?
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got a line on a cheap Geo Metro needing engine work. A friend
wants to sell it, maybe for a couple hundred. Might make a perfect
donor car, except it has an automatic transmission. How much effort is
it to put a manual tranny in one of these things? How about the clutch?
Should I pass?
Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might consider swapping a manual transmission for the automatic and
going with a clutchless design ala Bob Batson's at Electric Vehicles of
America.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Somewhere I read (in my nicad book) and was told by a nicad old timer
that every 100 charge/discharge cycles the pack should be brought down
to zero volts. So I bought a 6 foot long, 240v, 1500 watt baseboard
heater to load the pack down after I drove it for 32.5 ah's. When the
pack was at 160v and 5 amps, some cells were at 1.1v and some were at
-.100v. Man! So I guess it's time to zero them out. The book I have
says they vent either oxygen or hydrogen first during a mild reversal,
then the other gas if the reversal is deeper. We'll see how flat it is
in the morning.
This flattening is just for the 225 green cells. The 27 red cells seem
to have a higher voltage and water level, so they will get flattened
separate from the greentops. I did 2 load tests using my load tester
on the redtops and they came out to 27-30 ah's at an average load of
about 35 amps. The greentops came out to about 32.5 ah from just
driving and watching the Emeter.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Well, there are other great benefits of NiMH/NiCd vs lead-acid.
>
> They don't mind the deep discharges. If you have a 10KWH lead-acid but
> through Peukert's and the desire to avoid deep discharge that you decide
> not to use below 50%, well, you've only got a 5KWH battery there as far
> as range and cost per KWH are concerned.
Actually it's worse than that. If you have a typical 10kwh (20 hr rate)
flooded PbA pack, then at the 1hr rate Peukert reduces that to about
6.5-7kwh.
If you want to keep it below 50% DoD, for longevity, then you only have
about a 3.5kwh pack.
The 50% rule is 50% of the usable capacity, not 50% of the maximum 20hr
(or longer) capacity.
> I think I heard NiMH/NiCd lose less capacity than lead-acid in cold
> temperatures, but I have no numbers on that.
Very true, however NiCad and especially NiMH dont like getting hot.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Apparently the clutchless idea has been discussed to death on this
board, but all before my time. What's the short answer? Are people
using clutchless designs successfully, commonly?
Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
P.S. There's a GEO Metro with a dead motor and an automatic tranny on
EBAY right now for $100. It's in California.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Long
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Geo Metros
You might consider swapping a manual transmission for the automatic and
going with a clutchless design ala Bob Batson's at Electric Vehicles of
America.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
GM Announces Intention to Produce Plug-in Hybrid SUV
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/29/la-auto-show-rick-wagoner-announces-development-of-plug-in-hybr/
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now that is nice to hear! Someone other than me that believes in automatic
transmissions!
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
---- Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You might consider swapping a manual transmission for the automatic and
> going with a clutchless design ala Bob Batson's at Electric Vehicles of
> America.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electric Cobra Coupe Will Be at http://www.altcarexpo.com in Santa Monica
Dec 9-10 (and at the pier for the press conference on Dec. 8)
Picture - http://ssinc.us/kitcar/images/painted_640.jpg
Won't be quite finished (definitely no wipers, carpet or side windows) but
it will be running and the stereo is setup and tested :).
So I need to get the car from San Diego to Santa Monica for the show. Any
ideas for affordable safe transport? I already have the use of a Ford F150
pickup truck to tow a trailer... Thanks
KD - build site = http://ssinc.us/kitcar/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For my Fiero conversion, I am eying a Clutchnet clutch (67005CR3) and pressure
plate (15704RR34) from Clutchnet.com and a Fidanza flywheel (198261 C15) from
Ultrarev.com.
This will be coupled to a WarP-11.
Don't have the money yet but this is what I am looking at. Just thought I
would seek comments from the racing gurus!
Ken
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free
AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm in the middle of converting a '94 S10 using the clutchless design.
I'm real anxious to get it on the road and find out the pros and cons
for myself. Here is a link showing some assembly (note: not my
assembly).
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4429/cl3.htm
I think even the naysayers would consider this option when the glider
does not come with a clutch pedal.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for catching that, John. I should have noticed as I posted the
article.
I've made the correction and included the timeslips to eliminate any
confusion.
-Dave
On Nov 29, 2006, at 11:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You are correct, I transposed the 5 and the 4. My mistake.
I think that the article was based on my post to this list, ironically
enough.
Bill D.
\At 07:45 PM 11/29/2006, you wrote:
Hello to Bill and All,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You can see a nice write-up about the bike at
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/display.asp?
dismode=article&artid=322
Your report and your timeslip show your trap speed at 145 mph, but
the above referenced article has it at 154 mph. Did you perhaps flip
the 4 and 5? The ET is of course, the most important part, but I
would think you'd want the run listed correctly. You go on to say,
"This is the best time ever for any electric-powered vehicle (of any
sort) in history" (no argument on this), but since you're trying to
establish this in historical context, it should be correctly posted,
wouldn't you think? Besides, you don't want Dennis to start nit
picking, do you? :-)
Again, congrats on this great accomplishment!
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bad idea!!!
You can bring individual cells down to zero volts, but if you try to bring
the whole pack down while wired in series you will almost certainly
reverse one or more cells (this is a bad thing).
At any rate, I'm not sure of the benifit from doing this and the
recommendation is concerning dry cell nicads anyway. I don't recall Daft
reccomending this as a normal maintenance requirement for their flooded
cells.
> Somewhere I read (in my nicad book) and was told by a nicad old timer
> that every 100 charge/discharge cycles the pack should be brought down
> to zero volts. So I bought a 6 foot long, 240v, 1500 watt baseboard
> heater to load the pack down after I drove it for 32.5 ah's. When the
> pack was at 160v and 5 amps, some cells were at 1.1v and some were at
> -.100v. Man! So I guess it's time to zero them out. The book I have
> says they vent either oxygen or hydrogen first during a mild reversal,
> then the other gas if the reversal is deeper. We'll see how flat it is
> in the morning.
>
> This flattening is just for the 225 green cells. The 27 red cells seem
> to have a higher voltage and water level, so they will get flattened
> separate from the greentops. I did 2 load tests using my load tester
> on the redtops and they came out to 27-30 ah's at an average load of
> about 35 amps. The greentops came out to about 32.5 ah from just
> driving and watching the Emeter.
>
> Mike
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what is the toqure lbs of this clutch . ? I tried a lower end $500 racing
clutch in my Mitsbieshi pu and It slipped , just before braking the hub . I
then went clutchless and left it in 4th . The clutch I got was suppost to
handle 400 lbs toqure .
Steve Clunn
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: 2006/11/30 Thu AM 11:38:08 EST
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Clutch selection...
>
> For my Fiero conversion, I am eying a Clutchnet clutch (67005CR3) and
> pressure plate (15704RR34) from Clutchnet.com and a Fidanza flywheel (198261
> C15) from Ultrarev.com.
> This will be coupled to a WarP-11.
> Don't have the money yet but this is what I am looking at. Just thought I
> would seek comments from the racing gurus!
>
> Ken
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I was working in a aircraft battery shop 50 years ago, we would pull
the Nicad pack every 30 days, remove the cells from the case. Either
install shorting bars across the cells and monitor them until they reach 0
volts or later install a load bank across each cell.
Replace the KOH electrolyte with new KOH and then charge them with a 18 cell
battery charger with 36 leads that can charge each cell separately until
they all match.
Did a load test, and do it all over again if any one cell did not come up to
specs.
We grease the entire cell, bottoms, sides and top with GE dielectric grease,
and insert back into the cases.
If I had Nicad's I don't want to do this anymore, I would hire a person with
experience in this field.
Roland
> > Somewhere I read (in my nicad book) and was told by a nicad old timer
> > that every 100 charge/discharge cycles the pack should be brought down
> > to zero volts. So I bought a 6 foot long, 240v, 1500 watt baseboard
> > heater to load the pack down after I drove it for 32.5 ah's. When the
> > pack was at 160v and 5 amps, some cells were at 1.1v and some were at
> > -.100v. Man! So I guess it's time to zero them out. The book I have
> > says they vent either oxygen or hydrogen first during a mild reversal,
> > then the other gas if the reversal is deeper. We'll see how flat it is
> > in the morning.
> >
> > This flattening is just for the 225 green cells. The 27 red cells seem
> > to have a higher voltage and water level, so they will get flattened
> > separate from the greentops. I did 2 load tests using my load tester
> > on the redtops and they came out to 27-30 ah's at an average load of
> > about 35 amps. The greentops came out to about 32.5 ah from just
> > driving and watching the Emeter.
> >
> > Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very good question!
I will have to research that. The website does not provide that specification.
It says that it is specifically designed for drag racing, etc. etc...
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Clutch selection...
what is the toqure lbs of this clutch . ? I tried a lower end $500 racing
clutch
in my Mitsbieshi pu and It slipped , just before braking the hub . I then went
clutchless and left it in 4th . The clutch I got was suppost to handle 400 lbs
toqure .
Steve Clunn
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: 2006/11/30 Thu AM 11:38:08 EST
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Clutch selection...
>
> For my Fiero conversion, I am eying a Clutchnet clutch (67005CR3) and
> pressure
plate (15704RR34) from Clutchnet.com and a Fidanza flywheel (198261 C15) from
Ultrarev.com.
> This will be coupled to a WarP-11.
> Don't have the money yet but this is what I am looking at. Just thought I
would seek comments from the racing gurus!
>
> Ken
>
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free
AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Too late now ;0
Granted, it would be better to drain them individually. But with 252
cells it's just not practical.
The nicad book I have talks about BB600's and liquid filled nicads
alot. One thing it mentions is that cell reversal is not a big deal.
I also think that the conditions in which they occur are important
too. If I had a reversed cell moving 30 to 100 amps or more thru it,
I'd be concerned. But I drained the pack very slowly.
The bottom line is we'll see what the outcome is. This also speaks for
the need for a monitoring system. So I'm back on that.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bad idea!!!
>
> You can bring individual cells down to zero volts, but if you try to
bring
> the whole pack down while wired in series you will almost certainly
> reverse one or more cells (this is a bad thing).
>
> At any rate, I'm not sure of the benifit from doing this and the
> recommendation is concerning dry cell nicads anyway. I don't recall
Daft
> reccomending this as a normal maintenance requirement for their flooded
> cells.
>
> > Somewhere I read (in my nicad book) and was told by a nicad old timer
> > that every 100 charge/discharge cycles the pack should be brought down
> > to zero volts. So I bought a 6 foot long, 240v, 1500 watt baseboard
> > heater to load the pack down after I drove it for 32.5 ah's. When the
> > pack was at 160v and 5 amps, some cells were at 1.1v and some were at
> > -.100v. Man! So I guess it's time to zero them out. The book I have
> > says they vent either oxygen or hydrogen first during a mild reversal,
> > then the other gas if the reversal is deeper. We'll see how flat it is
> > in the morning.
> >
> > This flattening is just for the 225 green cells. The 27 red cells seem
> > to have a higher voltage and water level, so they will get flattened
> > separate from the greentops. I did 2 load tests using my load tester
> > on the redtops and they came out to 27-30 ah's at an average load of
> > about 35 amps. The greentops came out to about 32.5 ah from just
> > driving and watching the Emeter.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
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That still sounds like the ideal way to treat the BB600 nicads. Tons
of work. We'll see how this goes. Besides, the garage gets nice and
warm now when discharging into that baseboard heater.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> When I was working in a aircraft battery shop 50 years ago, we would
pull
> the Nicad pack every 30 days, remove the cells from the case. Either
> install shorting bars across the cells and monitor them until they
reach 0
> volts or later install a load bank across each cell.
>
> Replace the KOH electrolyte with new KOH and then charge them with a
18 cell
> battery charger with 36 leads that can charge each cell separately
until
> they all match.
>
> Did a load test, and do it all over again if any one cell did not
come up to
> specs.
>
> We grease the entire cell, bottoms, sides and top with GE dielectric
grease,
> and insert back into the cases.
>
> If I had Nicad's I don't want to do this anymore, I would hire a
person with
> experience in this field.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Somewhere I read (in my nicad book) and was told by a nicad old
timer
> > > that every 100 charge/discharge cycles the pack should be
brought down
> > > to zero volts. So I bought a 6 foot long, 240v, 1500 watt baseboard
> > > heater to load the pack down after I drove it for 32.5 ah's.
When the
> > > pack was at 160v and 5 amps, some cells were at 1.1v and some
were at
> > > -.100v. Man! So I guess it's time to zero them out. The book I have
> > > says they vent either oxygen or hydrogen first during a mild
reversal,
> > > then the other gas if the reversal is deeper. We'll see how flat
it is
> > > in the morning.
> > >
> > > This flattening is just for the 225 green cells. The 27 red
cells seem
> > > to have a higher voltage and water level, so they will get flattened
> > > separate from the greentops. I did 2 load tests using my load tester
> > > on the redtops and they came out to 27-30 ah's at an average load of
> > > about 35 amps. The greentops came out to about 32.5 ah from just
> > > driving and watching the Emeter.
> > >
> > > Mike
>
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--- Begin Message ---
"Although no time frame was cited, Wagoner insists that development is
underway with battery manufacturers to develop the technology as
quickly as possible."
Excuses, excuses.
-Mike
On 11/30/06, Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
GM Announces Intention to Produce Plug-in Hybrid SUV
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/29/la-auto-show-rick-wagoner-announces-development-of-plug-in-hybr/
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.
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The manual and auto transmission Metro/Swifts use different lengths of
half-shafts, so that adds to the expense of changing over to a manual
tranny. I think at least some of the motor &/or tranny mounts are
different also.
I think the Metro/Swift/Sprint (Suzuki-based) cars make very good
conversions, but given how common they are, you may want to find one
that already has a manual transmission. I suspect that if you look
around a bit, you're likely to find a manual transmission Metro with
engine trouble for about the same cost as the cheap one you've found
plus the cost of a new tranny, clutch pedal assy, halfshafts, tranny &
motor mounts, etc...
If you're lucky, you might even find a Suzuki Swift GT...
cheers,
Andrew (driving Sprint/Swift/Metro variants since 1992)
Lawrence Lile wrote:
I've got a line on a cheap Geo Metro needing engine work. A friend
wants to sell it, maybe for a couple hundred. Might make a perfect
donor car, except it has an automatic transmission. How much effort is
it to put a manual tranny in one of these things? How about the clutch?
Should I pass?
Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
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Here's the maintenance quote from the BB600a manual.
"For aircraft nickel-cadmium batteries, maintenance shown in flow
chart is required every 100 flight hours or every 120 days (whichever
shall occur first). For non aircraft nickel-cadmium batteries,
maintenance is required quarterly or every 100 cycles (whichever shall
occur first). The periodic maintenance cycle should result in the
rebalancing of all cells in the battery, the reactivation of inactive
plate material, and the replacement of defective cells."
My cells are aircraft cells. But the non aircraft are the same type,
they are just smaller in size and capacity.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bad idea!!!
>
> You can bring individual cells down to zero volts, but if you try to
bring
> the whole pack down while wired in series you will almost certainly
> reverse one or more cells (this is a bad thing).
>
> At any rate, I'm not sure of the benifit from doing this and the
> recommendation is concerning dry cell nicads anyway. I don't recall
Daft
> reccomending this as a normal maintenance requirement for their flooded
> cells.
>
> > Somewhere I read (in my nicad book) and was told by a nicad old timer
> > that every 100 charge/discharge cycles the pack should be brought down
> > to zero volts. So I bought a 6 foot long, 240v, 1500 watt baseboard
> > heater to load the pack down after I drove it for 32.5 ah's. When the
> > pack was at 160v and 5 amps, some cells were at 1.1v and some were at
> > -.100v. Man! So I guess it's time to zero them out. The book I have
> > says they vent either oxygen or hydrogen first during a mild reversal,
> > then the other gas if the reversal is deeper. We'll see how flat it is
> > in the morning.
> >
> > This flattening is just for the 225 green cells. The 27 red cells seem
> > to have a higher voltage and water level, so they will get flattened
> > separate from the greentops. I did 2 load tests using my load tester
> > on the redtops and they came out to 27-30 ah's at an average load of
> > about 35 amps. The greentops came out to about 32.5 ah from just
> > driving and watching the Emeter.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Powers wrote:
A friend of mine with some controller issues on his
recently purchased 1974 EVA Metro. GE motor 5BT2366C11...
He says it is a shunt motor, which I found surprising.
I still have a couple of EV-1's and some contactors,
so I was thinking about rigging something up for him. Maybe:
1. Full armature, with field going between full and 1/2.
That will give you an abrupt start. Closing the contactor to connect the
armature straight to the pack will cause it to draw a tremendous
starting current surge, as it tries to get up to about 2000 rpm
instantly. Once started, varying the field from full to 1/2 will speed
up the motor about 2:1 (i.e. 4000 rpm).
As an absolute minimum, you'd have to add a starting resistor in series
with the armature, and a second contactor to control it. This would give
you a cheap, simple system that just *barely* works, with the manual
transmission providing most of the speed control.
It would have powerful regen, though. Let up the throttle to increase
field current, and the motor *immediately* slows down, generating large
regen currents in the process.
2. Armature 0 - full, with 3 stage field (contactor controller
on the field).
That will work better. You can use the EV-1, or any series motor
controller to power the armature, and just leave the field on full. This
will give you speed control from 0-2000 rpm. At around 2000 rpm, the
armature will be at full pack voltage. To go faster, you need to reduce
the field current, either with a big rheostat, a contactor controller
and fixed resistors, etc.
If your EV-1 has a bypass contactor, you will get regen by controlling
the field, as described in #1 above.
3. Two PWM controllers. One on the armature, 0-full. One on the
field, full-1/2.
Same as #2, but with a PWM on both armature and field. If you can
coordinate the two, this can operate quite nicely. But that will take a
lot of time and experimentation.
4. Maybe just put the field in parallel with the armature and
let it go at that.
That won't work. A shunt motor tries to run at constant speed,
regardless of the applied voltage.
5. Or, a variable resistor in the field like e-volks did early on.
This works; but your other solutions are better.
Not knowing the resistance values of that motor, I'm not sure
what is the best (cost effective) solution.
I'd start with the EV-1 to control the armature, and a big rheostat to
control the field. Rig the throttle to operate the EV-1 potbox from
0-1/2 throttle, and the rheostat from 1/2-full throttle.
Below is the data on the motor. It is currently running 96 V.
I'm concerned about getting him some decent acceleration
performance and top speed in the 65 MPH range.
GE# 5BT2366C11. It is rated at 32 HP, 175 amp, 165V, 5925 rpm.
Since you're running it at about half voltage, speed will be lower.
You're not likely to get more than 4000 rpm even at half field. I'm not
sure you want to go below 1/2 field, or he might burn up the motor from
excessive armature current.
It also has ENCL BV, Duty 1 Hour-140 deg.c
Probably means "enclosed, blower cooled". I.e. you need an external
blower to cool it. A 1-hour duty cycle is normal for traction motors.
Not sure about the 140 deg.C -- usually, motors have class B = 130 deg.C
or class H = 180 deg.C insulation ratings.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
If you can, put the breaker in the middle of the pack, so that when
it is switched, the total voltage will be 72 volts.
That's a good idea; safer to work on the EV. It would also stop the
DC/DC and heater if they ever run away.
Is it possible to have only a single shunt? This will reduce
resistance in the main motor circuit.
Yes, though it's also nice to know what the motor current is. You may
have less trouble with noise if you put the motor shunt in the M- lead
(the Zilla switches the high side; B+ to M+).
I seem to recall that a diode might be needed on the motor blower relay.
Hopefully Lee can comment.
As shown, the "stock blower motor" relay will switch the heater relay
cleanly, despite the blower motor's back emf. However, I wouldn't put a
diode straight across the heater relay's coil; it will also causes slow
drop-out. You can put a resistor in series with this diode, equal to the
coil's resistance, to help.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Peter Perkins wrote:
Dear All
My Curtis Potbox pb-8 0-5k Pot needs replacing. PN 89191 anyone have one in
the UK or part no of an equivalent replacement please. Fairly urgent as van
is off road until replaced, Curtis UK have a minimum order level of
£50.00!!! Part is a Clarostat Marked PMC98191 CM44675 200124 5k linear.
The stock Curtis potbox is a $1 pot in a $30 box. It is very low
quality, and fails often in outdoor vehicular service.
Paul Compton posted some references to a part available at Farnell in
the UK that is cheaper, and actually built for the automotive
environment. I don't have the link handy, but maybe he's listening and
will respond?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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GWMobile wrote:
FM has less noise because it is frequency modulated rather than an
amplitude modulated signal.
I apologize for being stubborn, but this is an oversimplification.
All things being equal (same frequency, same bandwidth, same signal
strength etc.), FM has more noise immunity than AM against impulse noise
(noise caused by sparks, lightning, arcing motor brushes, switch
contacts opening and closing, etc.).
However, all things are NOT equal! If we are comparing broadcast AM
(0.54-1.6 MHz) to broadcast FM (88-108 MHz), the FM signal is at 100
times the frequency, which attenuates impulse noise by 100:1. The FM
signal also has 20 times the bandwidth (10 KHz AM vs. 200 KHz FM), which
which greatly increases FM's noise immunity. These are *major*
differences, and account for almost all of FM's perceived improvement.
Aircraft radios, 118-132 MHz, use AM with a 25 KHz bandwidth. FM was
tested, and found to offer no significant improvement. In fact, under
marginal signal conditions, AM gets through when FM cannot.
Essentially all AM radios have AGC (Automatic Gain Control) and noise
blanking, which considerably improve the noise performance.
Most modern noise sources are *not* impulse noise; they are interference
from other transmitters; other radio stations, or other devices that
incidentally radiate RF as a side effect (like computers, motor
controllers, DC/DC converters, chargers, etc.) FM has no particular
advantage over AM for interference from such sources; in fact, FM is
undesirable because the offending signal can "capture" the receiver so
it is impossible to hear the desired station at all.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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