EV Digest 6180
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Curtis Potbox Pb-8 Pot replacement.
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) car back together - motors dc/dc
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) To Roland: how is the EV doing in BRRR - Cold Land?
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Geo Metros
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: car back together - motors dc/dc
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Tesla Motors battery
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Nicad resetting
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: To Roland: how is the EV doing in BRRR - Cold Land?
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Test only, no content
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: To Roland: how is the EV doing in BRRR - Cold Land?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: To Roland: how is the EV doing in BRRR - Cold Land?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Not me!! Re: Nicad resetting vs NiMH
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Plugs and Cars Blog
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Tesla Motors battery
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) House battery maintenance charger
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Advanced DC 8-inch motor on ebay.
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: House battery maintenance charger
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Was this the expected GM announcement?
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: House battery maintenance charger
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Clutch selection...
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Geo Metros
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I kept a copy of Paul's note:
"You know, there's a reason I don't read this list on a regular basis
and it
has to do with the tendancy of some list members to ignore proven off
the
shelf solutions to simple problems. I've posted many times over the
years on
alternatives to the convenient, but expensive and not very reliable
Curtis
potbox, but almost always been ignored.
I'll try again, just in case anybody is listening.
If you've got a controller with a 0-5K, or 5-0K, or a potentiometer
input,
then take a look at;
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=4246718
and
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=7006457
Automotive rated conductive plastic pots with 'D' shaft activation and
built
in return springs.
5 million full cycles.
10 million 'dither' cycles.
Paul Compton"
John Grigg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Motor guru's
It's been 3 weeks. I'm back and in motion with my electric truck.
Best of all, the motor repair only cost $500 for pilot bearing, brushes,
springs, enamel, all labor. THe sound was the pilot bearing. my motor is
much quieter than before. the failure was the brushes and springs having
no life left.
I took apart the whole engine compartment and after receiving the motor
reassembled everything else. THat's just a great feeling.
Now, the two questions as I start driving it again.
1 MOTOR NOISE - as my commute got to 15 miles, I heard a faint grinding
noise of a higher pitch.
I pulled over thinking my new temperature probe wire might be hitting a
moving part, but it was clear.
As I pulled back onto the road, the sound continued briefly than ceased
(almost like the brush had a small particle that had to be grinded down???
the sound began again 5 miles further and stopped again after 2 miles
What could this be?
2 temperature. As I was driving the temperature hung around 99 degree F.
When I came to park the car and turned the car off, I observed the
temperature rise passing 109 degree F at which point I left.
3 DC/DC I have the DC power systems DC/DC converter. I know it works,
because I have emeter power for the center taps. However, I don't observe
an amp draw at a stop, whether the vacuum brake is on, lights, blower, the
ampmeter is -0.00. Only when I turn on the heater does the emeter read
current draw.
So, does anyone know if this might just mean my accessory battery is still
fully charged, so the DC/DC isn't pulling power yet? I guess I'll find out
when the accessory battery is drained and my contactors open. (it's still
reading 12.5 Volts) or the emeter reads a draw.
Good to be back on the electric,
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland,
Now that I see Great Falls, MT taking its place in the
newspaper's weather columns with the 48-state low at -20degF
(high not making 0 by the way, at -7degF), I have visions dancing
in my head as to how Roland's EV is making out, crunching it way
down snow-covered roads with spindrift dancing through the air.
I have been reading your posts to a greater degree over the last
several months as I'm finally getting tuned into a bit as to what
you have done with your EV, and the conditions you have to
operate it under. But as I recall, you have a heating
arrangement for your batteries, so you're probably keeping them
nice and warm.
I have been to Montana a few times - beautiful state. Great
Falls is along the Rocky Mtn Front, right? I remember in
February 1979 I and a few friends climbed into a couple of gas
cars to go up to Montana to see the total eclipse. We drove up
to the NE corner of the state from the Denver, CO area in about
18 hours. Drove to Froid (like f-f-frigid) about fifty miles
from the Canada line. The light of a new morning lit our way
across terrain that looked like the high Arctic - cold, snow
covered, and very little vegetation. The folks we stayed with
said it went down to -38degF a few days or weeks beforehand.
Brrrr...
I grew up in the Denver area, so I have some idea as to what it
is like in the Mountain West during winter, although it's not
quite as cold there as up in Montana. But all my EV experience
has been in the lush climate of California's Bay Area, where
people feel it is cold at 40degF (60 over your recent low in
Great Falls). Yep, my car and batteries are feeling a little
cold these last few days. I think one thing I've noticed is that
the tranny fluid (MTL Redline) and wheel grease do get a little
thicker, and I imagine that becomes a real factor at sub-zero
temperatures. Heck, in Seattle and Wayland-ville (Portland, OR),
they've had snow, and I imagine I'll soon be reading a Wayland
post describing the c-c-cold. I remember a Bill Dube post from a
few years ago describing his return Wabbit commute trip home from
Boulder in a snowstorm - apparently Pb-acid EVs' extra weight
help significantly with traction. And we have Mike Willmon
making his EV way in Anchorage, so I've been watching those temps
more with EVs in mind.
So Roland, I keep wondering. Do you have an evalbum or other
website where we can see and read about your EV? I don't think
I've seen any reference to such, but I could have easily missed
it.
Chuck
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think he meant swap the auto with someone else's manual, but I could be
wrong. :)
With an auto though, you'd get rid of the torque converter, right? This is a
big source of inefficiency, and is needed just cause the ICE can't stop at
idle, I believe.
- Tony
Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Now that is nice to hear! Someone other
than me that believes in automatic transmissions!
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
---- Rich Long wrote:
> You might consider swapping a manual transmission for the automatic and
> going with a clutchless design ala Bob Batson's at Electric Vehicles of
> America.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Ben
What you're describing could in fact just be brush
noise but the intermitant there and then gone starts
to lean away from it. I can't remeber what motor type
you're using but I'm wondering what grade of brush
they installed? Anyway I'd keep a close ear out on
it. If it goes away and stays gone here soon all
should be golden. If it continues I'd block the
wheels and put a close ear to it and try to locate
where it's coming from.
As to the temp climbing after shutting it off I'd say
it's just ambient temp rising after the fan / blower
is no longer running and cooling the motor.
Anyway I hope this helps toward the motor side of your
questions
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Motor guru's
>
> It's been 3 weeks. I'm back and in motion with my
> electric truck.
> Best of all, the motor repair only cost $500 for
> pilot bearing, brushes,
> springs, enamel, all labor. THe sound was the
> pilot bearing. my motor is
> much quieter than before. the failure was the
> brushes and springs having
> no life left.
>
> I took apart the whole engine compartment and after
> receiving the motor
> reassembled everything else. THat's just a great
> feeling.
>
> Now, the two questions as I start driving it again.
>
> 1 MOTOR NOISE - as my commute got to 15 miles, I
> heard a faint grinding
> noise of a higher pitch.
> I pulled over thinking my new temperature probe wire
> might be hitting a
> moving part, but it was clear.
>
> As I pulled back onto the road, the sound continued
> briefly than ceased
> (almost like the brush had a small particle that had
> to be grinded down???
> the sound began again 5 miles further and stopped
> again after 2 miles
>
> What could this be?
>
> 2 temperature. As I was driving the temperature hung
> around 99 degree F.
> When I came to park the car and turned the car off,
> I observed the
> temperature rise passing 109 degree F at which point
> I left.
>
> 3 DC/DC I have the DC power systems DC/DC converter.
> I know it works,
> because I have emeter power for the center taps.
> However, I don't observe
> an amp draw at a stop, whether the vacuum brake is
> on, lights, blower, the
> ampmeter is -0.00. Only when I turn on the heater
> does the emeter read
> current draw.
>
> So, does anyone know if this might just mean my
> accessory battery is still
> fully charged, so the DC/DC isn't pulling power yet?
> I guess I'll find out
> when the accessory battery is drained and my
> contactors open. (it's still
> reading 12.5 Volts) or the emeter reads a draw.
>
> Good to be back on the electric,
>
> Ben
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tesla Motors seems to be building their own Lithium battery pack.
Without Altair, Valence or A123 batteries.
Take a look at this
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/11/29/tesla-motors-ready-to-license-
batter-tech-to-other-companies/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
I am one of the first to use these BB600's in an EV. I did a few of
these 0 V maintenance charge before. The easiest way I found is to
attach a short thin wire (NiChrom may be) across the top of each cells
and leave them for a few hours. I drilled small holes on the
interconnects to slot these wires in and hold them in place. This
would drain each cell safely to 0V. Then, do a slow constant current
charge like you would the first time you recharge them.
However, make sure you do this in s well ventilated area. The
combined heat of those short wire acts like a large heater.
On 11/30/06, Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Too late now ;0
Granted, it would be better to drain them individually. But with 252
cells it's just not practical.
The nicad book I have talks about BB600's and liquid filled nicads
alot. One thing it mentions is that cell reversal is not a big deal.
I also think that the conditions in which they occur are important
too. If I had a reversed cell moving 30 to 100 amps or more thru it,
I'd be concerned. But I drained the pack very slowly.
The bottom line is we'll see what the outcome is. This also speaks for
the need for a monitoring system. So I'm back on that.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bad idea!!!
>
> You can bring individual cells down to zero volts, but if you try to
bring
> the whole pack down while wired in series you will almost certainly
> reverse one or more cells (this is a bad thing).
>
> At any rate, I'm not sure of the benifit from doing this and the
> recommendation is concerning dry cell nicads anyway. I don't recall
Daft
> reccomending this as a normal maintenance requirement for their flooded
> cells.
>
> > Somewhere I read (in my nicad book) and was told by a nicad old timer
> > that every 100 charge/discharge cycles the pack should be brought down
> > to zero volts. So I bought a 6 foot long, 240v, 1500 watt baseboard
> > heater to load the pack down after I drove it for 32.5 ah's. When the
> > pack was at 160v and 5 amps, some cells were at 1.1v and some were at
> > -.100v. Man! So I guess it's time to zero them out. The book I have
> > says they vent either oxygen or hydrogen first during a mild reversal,
> > then the other gas if the reversal is deeper. We'll see how flat it is
> > in the morning.
> >
> > This flattening is just for the 225 green cells. The 27 red cells seem
> > to have a higher voltage and water level, so they will get flattened
> > separate from the greentops. I did 2 load tests using my load tester
> > on the redtops and they came out to 27-30 ah's at an average load of
> > about 35 amps. The greentops came out to about 32.5 ah from just
> > driving and watching the Emeter.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I too would be interested in the details around Roland's battery heating
setup. I am in the DC area. But on those 20 or so days a year we dip down
into the friggies as I like to call them, heating the floodies batteries
would be a nifty convenience.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL post" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 4:52 PM
Subject: To Roland: how is the EV doing in BRRR - Cold Land?
Roland,
Now that I see Great Falls, MT taking its place in the
newspaper's weather columns with the 48-state low at -20degF
(high not making 0 by the way, at -7degF), I have visions dancing
in my head as to how Roland's EV is making out, crunching it way
down snow-covered roads with spindrift dancing through the air.
I have been reading your posts to a greater degree over the last
several months as I'm finally getting tuned into a bit as to what
you have done with your EV, and the conditions you have to
operate it under. But as I recall, you have a heating
arrangement for your batteries, so you're probably keeping them
nice and warm.
I have been to Montana a few times - beautiful state. Great
Falls is along the Rocky Mtn Front, right? I remember in
February 1979 I and a few friends climbed into a couple of gas
cars to go up to Montana to see the total eclipse. We drove up
to the NE corner of the state from the Denver, CO area in about
18 hours. Drove to Froid (like f-f-frigid) about fifty miles
from the Canada line. The light of a new morning lit our way
across terrain that looked like the high Arctic - cold, snow
covered, and very little vegetation. The folks we stayed with
said it went down to -38degF a few days or weeks beforehand.
Brrrr...
I grew up in the Denver area, so I have some idea as to what it
is like in the Mountain West during winter, although it's not
quite as cold there as up in Montana. But all my EV experience
has been in the lush climate of California's Bay Area, where
people feel it is cold at 40degF (60 over your recent low in
Great Falls). Yep, my car and batteries are feeling a little
cold these last few days. I think one thing I've noticed is that
the tranny fluid (MTL Redline) and wheel grease do get a little
thicker, and I imagine that becomes a real factor at sub-zero
temperatures. Heck, in Seattle and Wayland-ville (Portland, OR),
they've had snow, and I imagine I'll soon be reading a Wayland
post describing the c-c-cold. I remember a Bill Dube post from a
few years ago describing his return Wabbit commute trip home from
Boulder in a snowstorm - apparently Pb-acid EVs' extra weight
help significantly with traction. And we have Mike Willmon
making his EV way in Anchorage, so I've been watching those temps
more with EVs in mind.
So Roland, I keep wondering. Do you have an evalbum or other
website where we can see and read about your EV? I don't think
I've seen any reference to such, but I could have easily missed
it.
Chuck
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/559 - Release Date: 11/30/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Chuck,
I do not know how cold it is outside until I look at the outside temperature
reading. It read -23 below at my place. In my new house and garage which is
super insulated which is 80 R-factor walls, and 136 R-factor ceiling. The
garage doors are a 19 R-factor doors. I am holding a steady 75 degrees in
the living areas and 65 degrees in the garage, which ramps up to 70 degrees
before I leave.
The EV cab is also preheated with under dash ceramic heaters to 80 or more
degrees about 5 minutes before I leave. The battery compartment is at the
same temperature of the garage, which takes in the garage air with the
battery intake and exhaust fans.
My gas bill use for only heating came today, and it is $22.00. The electric
bill is at $68.00. One time the gas bill got all the way up to $45.00 when
we had a steady -15 below average for a month with maximum low of -38 below.
To get this cold, its was a clear sky, so when I park my EV outside, I
position it so that hood and glass is in the direct path of the sun light,
which is very intense. Even at 30 below, the EV will maintain above 65
degrees for the first hour.
This EV is also super insulated with foam that ranges from 4 inches thick in
the battery compartment and 1 to 2 inches of soft foam in the cab area which
is cover with dark blue marine rug in the battery compartment and high pile
dark blue rug in the cab.
The motor compartment is seal like a trunk lid and any air input that is
normally use for a ICE is close off. The suspension system is completely
cover with a 1/8 inch rubber blanket, that drapes down below the motor.
Below the motor, there is a steel skid plate to protect the motor.
There is a blower motor fan for the motor and also a blower and water
cooling for the Zilla which is also enclosed in a compartment. Any time its
below 30 degrees and I travel only a mile, I do not turn on these units.
All last summer these units never went above 99 degrees with these cooling
system on.
Another cooling trick, that I was going to do, but did not do it, was wrap
the water cool feed tubing around the air conditional cold feed line and
insulated with a larger A/C hose form cover which should work good in the
hotter states.
This morning it warm up to 15 below but it was also clear. I back out of
the garage and when the rear wheels went beyond the garage door, I felt a
little resistance like the rear tires ran over a small ridge of snow, that
blew across the drive way.
Backing out until I saw I ran over, I did ran over, but also ran through a
hard pack snow bank that was 18 inches high and 6 feet wide. This EV goes
right through these snow banks, like I was driving on dry pavement.
This morning the streets were hard snow pack, so the it was taking about 5
ah per mile while it normally take 2.7 to 3.5 ah per mile. Yesterday at -23
below, the streets were not snow pack, but was 8 inches to 12 inches deep of
dry snow that took 8 ah per mile to drive through.
I was passing up a lot of ICE's that was frosted over, hard time starting,
getting jump from another ICE and tow.
I just love driving my EV in the winter, its nice and warm, frost free, and
can wear the same clothes as in the summertime.
You can see my EV at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html
Its need to be updated, there is a window in the gray enclosure for the
Zilla, so I can see the status lights.
In the rear, in the left compartment, a PVC-50 is install and rises up using
air struts. The charging DC and AC meters are transfer to the right
compartment which also hinges up.
The battery connectors are change to a battery clamp type.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL post" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:52 PM
Subject: To Roland: how is the EV doing in BRRR - Cold Land?
> Roland,
>
> Now that I see Great Falls, MT taking its place in the
> newspaper's weather columns with the 48-state low at -20degF
> (high not making 0 by the way, at -7degF), I have visions dancing
> in my head as to how Roland's EV is making out, crunching it way
> down snow-covered roads with spindrift dancing through the air.
> I have been reading your posts to a greater degree over the last
> several months as I'm finally getting tuned into a bit as to what
> you have done with your EV, and the conditions you have to
> operate it under. But as I recall, you have a heating
> arrangement for your batteries, so you're probably keeping them
> nice and warm.
>
> I have been to Montana a few times - beautiful state. Great
> Falls is along the Rocky Mtn Front, right? I remember in
> February 1979 I and a few friends climbed into a couple of gas
> cars to go up to Montana to see the total eclipse. We drove up
> to the NE corner of the state from the Denver, CO area in about
> 18 hours. Drove to Froid (like f-f-frigid) about fifty miles
> from the Canada line. The light of a new morning lit our way
> across terrain that looked like the high Arctic - cold, snow
> covered, and very little vegetation. The folks we stayed with
> said it went down to -38degF a few days or weeks beforehand.
> Brrrr...
>
> I grew up in the Denver area, so I have some idea as to what it
> is like in the Mountain West during winter, although it's not
> quite as cold there as up in Montana. But all my EV experience
> has been in the lush climate of California's Bay Area, where
> people feel it is cold at 40degF (60 over your recent low in
> Great Falls). Yep, my car and batteries are feeling a little
> cold these last few days. I think one thing I've noticed is that
> the tranny fluid (MTL Redline) and wheel grease do get a little
> thicker, and I imagine that becomes a real factor at sub-zero
> temperatures. Heck, in Seattle and Wayland-ville (Portland, OR),
> they've had snow, and I imagine I'll soon be reading a Wayland
> post describing the c-c-cold. I remember a Bill Dube post from a
> few years ago describing his return Wabbit commute trip home from
> Boulder in a snowstorm - apparently Pb-acid EVs' extra weight
> help significantly with traction. And we have Mike Willmon
> making his EV way in Anchorage, so I've been watching those temps
> more with EVs in mind.
>
> So Roland, I keep wondering. Do you have an evalbum or other
> website where we can see and read about your EV? I don't think
> I've seen any reference to such, but I could have easily missed
> it.
>
> Chuck
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
> http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
I use to heat them with a battery blanket, that comes in 28, 36 and 72 inch
lengths that you can get from a auto parts store. That was 20 years ago.
When I built my new epoxy coated battery boxes, I left a 1/2 inch space
around the perimeter, to slide in these battery heat blankets, but never use
them.
These battery boxes are double insulated with 2 inch foam inside a insulated
2 inch foam pick up bed of a El Camino that has a seal custom made hatch
back.
My EV is park inside a 65 to 70 degree building, where the batteries
maintain a temperature of 65 degrees of higher. If I charge batteries that
have a temperature of 65 degrees, I only charge them to about 95%. Its takes
too long to get to 100% and anyway my maximum daily driving is only about
six 1/2 mile runs.
I will do a equalizing about every three months, water the batteries, clean
them and then check the battery clamp torque.
If you are parking outside all the time, then either use the battery
blankets.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: To Roland: how is the EV doing in BRRR - Cold Land?
> I too would be interested in the details around Roland's battery heating
> setup. I am in the DC area. But on those 20 or so days a year we dip down
> into the friggies as I like to call them, heating the floodies batteries
> would be a nifty convenience.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EVDL post" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 4:52 PM
> Subject: To Roland: how is the EV doing in BRRR - Cold Land?
>
>
> > Roland,
> >
> > Now that I see Great Falls, MT taking its place in the
> > newspaper's weather columns with the 48-state low at -20degF
> > (high not making 0 by the way, at -7degF), I have visions dancing
> > in my head as to how Roland's EV is making out, crunching it way
> > down snow-covered roads with spindrift dancing through the air.
> > I have been reading your posts to a greater degree over the last
> > several months as I'm finally getting tuned into a bit as to what
> > you have done with your EV, and the conditions you have to
> > operate it under. But as I recall, you have a heating
> > arrangement for your batteries, so you're probably keeping them
> > nice and warm.
> >
> > I have been to Montana a few times - beautiful state. Great
> > Falls is along the Rocky Mtn Front, right? I remember in
> > February 1979 I and a few friends climbed into a couple of gas
> > cars to go up to Montana to see the total eclipse. We drove up
> > to the NE corner of the state from the Denver, CO area in about
> > 18 hours. Drove to Froid (like f-f-frigid) about fifty miles
> > from the Canada line. The light of a new morning lit our way
> > across terrain that looked like the high Arctic - cold, snow
> > covered, and very little vegetation. The folks we stayed with
> > said it went down to -38degF a few days or weeks beforehand.
> > Brrrr...
> >
> > I grew up in the Denver area, so I have some idea as to what it
> > is like in the Mountain West during winter, although it's not
> > quite as cold there as up in Montana. But all my EV experience
> > has been in the lush climate of California's Bay Area, where
> > people feel it is cold at 40degF (60 over your recent low in
> > Great Falls). Yep, my car and batteries are feeling a little
> > cold these last few days. I think one thing I've noticed is that
> > the tranny fluid (MTL Redline) and wheel grease do get a little
> > thicker, and I imagine that becomes a real factor at sub-zero
> > temperatures. Heck, in Seattle and Wayland-ville (Portland, OR),
> > they've had snow, and I imagine I'll soon be reading a Wayland
> > post describing the c-c-cold. I remember a Bill Dube post from a
> > few years ago describing his return Wabbit commute trip home from
> > Boulder in a snowstorm - apparently Pb-acid EVs' extra weight
> > help significantly with traction. And we have Mike Willmon
> > making his EV way in Anchorage, so I've been watching those temps
> > more with EVs in mind.
> >
> > So Roland, I keep wondering. Do you have an evalbum or other
> > website where we can see and read about your EV? I don't think
> > I've seen any reference to such, but I could have easily missed
> > it.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > Chuck Hursch
> > Larkspur, CA
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
> > http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Edward, Mike and All,
While your way Edward certainly works to
discharge the batts well, I don't see the need for it at all
unless there is an actual balance problem.
I've used high power SAFT 14amphr batts for about
10 yrs that were used over 25 yrs when I got them, heavy use
for 5 yrs commuting and never had to completely discharge
them and except for badly overcharging accidentally several
times, never had a problem and they stayed above rated power
to this day.
What they want is for them to be equalized. I
rather equalize on the top of the charge than the bottom
like you, Mike do and has worked well for me. I found
equalizing only 1/week/5-7 cycles, easily keep the batts in
line, actually getting more equal as they got used, without
using much water. Many times I went a week on one charge, so
only equalizing there 1/month, watering every 3 months!! If
you want to equalize the bottom of the cycle, just discharge
them by driving down to 1-2% charge, then recharge. After 10
cycles or so my ni-cads were completely equalized together,
within a couple 1/100's of a volt. All I did was bring them
up to full charge by charging until charged, removing it
from the temp charging string while the others reached full
charge. This was after they set for probably a couple yrs
before I got them. They were used as UPS' in medical
equipment, given to me free by a batt company that didn't
want to ship them back to SAFT for recycling.
Using an E meter or better, Lee's new EV Dash
when it's ready, to put back about 90% charge most cycles,
then 110% every 5-7 cycles. This should easily keep your
ni-cads in good shape, lowering watering needs, work, to
give your batts a nice, long, happy life.
As for why Ni-cads are done as the manual says is
everything about aircraft is rather anal, and for good
reason, towards safety. But this has little in common with
using ni-cads for EV use. For instance, I'd bet the
electrolyte change is to keep the bats from shorting out,
ect during dogfights, ect, which can ruin your whole day!!
As our ni-cads won't be inverted much, this isn't a problem.
However, exposing the plates to O2 or worse, CO2 is not good
either and known to shorten life.
On my BB600's, I'll just check them all to make sure
they are all 0 volts to start the commissioning charges,
cycles to bring them up to spec and just equalize the top of
the charge from there.
While reversing a cell is not terminal, you lose
capacity each time with a 20% reversal probably losing 10%
cap each time based on doing it with my similar SAFTS over
the yrs. Luckily ni-cads are usually higher cap than rated
so the first one doesn't show up, but a couple and you can
really have problems. Been there, done that.
The less often you open the caps, the less CO2 will
get in, turning into carbonate, I forget which kind, which
is a white crystal mass that grows in the cells and if
charged/ discharged right, this carbonate is the thing that
will eventually kill a ni-cad, though with care, that will
be over 50 yrs based on my, other's experience. Many 50-90
yr old ni-cads are still going strong at rated power!!
With such a great battery available for less than
AGM's, both new, I don't see why people chose AGM's over
BB600's, other ni-cads or why one would want NiMH that is
marginally better capacity, much more tempermental and
extremely costly.
Let's see, a 12vdc BB600 battery costs $100 or less,
puts out about 35 usable amphrs and 800amps? vs a NiMH which
costs 10-15x's more that dies in hot weather, requires a
expensive charger/BMS and limited in amps. I know which one
I'd want!!
So I'd not do shorting out cells unless your string
was brand new, just out of shorted storage or hopelessly out
of balance. Doing it will I believe shorten their life which
is fine for an aircraft that will replace them every 2-3 yrs
or so, but not for EV's which want them to run 20+ yrs!!
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Nicad resetting
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:18:46 -0800
>Mike,
>
>I am one of the first to use these BB600's in an EV. I did
>a few of these 0 V maintenance charge before. The easiest
>way I found is to attach a short thin wire (NiChrom may be)
>across the top of each cells and leave them for a few
>hours. I drilled small holes on the interconnects to slot
>these wires in and hold them in place. This would drain
>each cell safely to 0V. Then, do a slow constant current
>charge like you would the first time you recharge them.
>
>However, make sure you do this in s well ventilated area.
>The combined heat of those short wire acts like a large
>heater.
>
>On 11/30/06, Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Too late now ;0
>>
>> Granted, it would be better to drain them individually.
>> But with 252 cells it's just not practical.
>>
>> The nicad book I have talks about BB600's and liquid
>> filled nicads alot. One thing it mentions is that cell
>>reversal is not a big deal.
>> I also think that the conditions in which they occur are
>> important too. If I had a reversed cell moving 30 to 100
>> amps or more thru it, I'd be concerned. But I drained the
>>pack very slowly.
>> The bottom line is we'll see what the outcome is. This
>> also speaks for the need for a monitoring system. So I'm
>>back on that.
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Peter VanDerWal"
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Bad idea!!!
>> >
>> > You can bring individual cells down to zero volts, but
>> if you try to bring
>> > the whole pack down while wired in series you will
>> > almost certainly reverse one or more cells (this is a
>> >bad thing).
>> > At any rate, I'm not sure of the benifit from doing
>> > this and the recommendation is concerning dry cell
>> nicads anyway. I don't recall Daft
>> > reccomending this as a normal maintenance requirement
>> > for their flooded cells.
>> >
>> > > Somewhere I read (in my nicad book) and was told by a
>> > > nicad old timer that every 100 charge/discharge
>> > > cycles the pack should be brought down to zero volts.
>> > > So I bought a 6 foot long, 240v, 1500 watt baseboard
>heater to load the pack down after I drove it for 32.5
>> > > ah's. When the pack was at 160v and 5 amps, some
>> > > cells were at 1.1v and some were at -.100v. Man! So I
>> > > guess it's time to zero them out. The book I have
>says they vent either oxygen or hydrogen first during a
>> > > mild reversal, then the other gas if the reversal is
>> > > deeper. We'll see how flat it is in the morning.
>> > >
>> > > This flattening is just for the 225 green cells. The
>> > > 27 red cells seem to have a higher voltage and water
>> > > level, so they will get flattened separate from the
>> > > greentops. I did 2 load tests using my load tester on
>the redtops and they came out to 27-30 ah's at an average
>> > > load of about 35 amps. The greentops came out to
>> > > about 32.5 ah from just driving and watching the
>> > >Emeter.
>> > > Mike
>> > >
>> >>
>>
>
>
>--
>Edward Ang
>President
>AIR Lab Corp
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've started a blog on Plugs and Cars at:
plugsandcars.blogspot.com
Check it out.
Thanks.
Marc Geller
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tehben Dean wrote:
Tesla Motors seems to be building their own Lithium battery pack.
Without Altair, Valence or A123 batteries.
Take a look at this
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/11/29/tesla-motors-ready-to-license-batter-tech-to-other-companies/
Additionally, here is a tour of the entire car:
http://blog.wired.com/teslacar/2006/10/the_182kilowatt.html
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a regular 12 volt battery in my car for the lights, fans, radio, etc. I
plan on hooking a
dc-dc between the traction pack and the house battery to supply power during
driving, but the
dc-dc will only be connected when I'm driving. When the car is off I don't want
any parasitic
loads draining the pack.
Here's my question; is there any reason I can't hook up a simple trickle
charger to one leg of the
main charger 240 line to keep the 12 battery fresh? It would trickel charge the
12v battery any
time the car is plugged in.
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've put one of my 8" ADC motors up for sale on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330056653836
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Dave,
Yes you can, that's what I do. It's a Shumacher Solid State Smart charger I
got from Wal-Mart. It is the smallest one they have, that is mounted on
board. Its comes off a 20 amp circuit breaker that is than tap off my 50
amp 4 wire 240/120 VAC input terminal block.
This charger can still charge 2 to 30 amp, regular, deep cycle, AGM or Gel
batteries, it will auto charge, equalize and works as a maintainer. It has
a voltage indicator and a State of Charge indicator.
I also pull off the dc output to two jacks I mounted on a AC and DC meter
indicator panel. About every three months when I charge up my main battery
pack to about 99% with a PFC charger, then I can plug into this charger with
test leads to equalized the batteries, which only takes about 1 minute per
battery to match each battery voltage to the digital volt meter on the smart
charger.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:22 PM
Subject: House battery maintenance charger
> I have a regular 12 volt battery in my car for the lights, fans, radio,
> etc. I plan on hooking a
> dc-dc between the traction pack and the house battery to supply power
> during driving, but the
> dc-dc will only be connected when I'm driving. When the car is off I don't
> want any parasitic
> loads draining the pack.
>
> Here's my question; is there any reason I can't hook up a simple trickle
> charger to one leg of the
> main charger 240 line to keep the 12 battery fresh? It would trickel
> charge the 12v battery any
> time the car is plugged in.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, that was one of the open secrets in the trades for a while. They showed
a proto-type vehicle a year or so ago, with a tacky patch-job on the grill.
Someone in the media "just happened" to guess that's where the plug would
go. GM played it up as, oops, we aren't saying.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Kaftanski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:43 AM
Subject: Was this the expected GM announcement?
> GM Announces Intention to Produce Plug-in Hybrid SUV
>
>
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/29/la-auto-show-rick-wagoner-announces-development-of-plug-in-hybr/
> Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have one of those Shumacker chargers and found that ( after looking inside
) it would run on 120 dc , The thing puts out a real 30 amps at 14.xx v unlike
most heavy transformer chargers. So If ones pack is around 120 you could run
it off the traction pack and not worry about what your plugging you pfc into (
120 or 240) . You may have to switch the + and - on the ac input line to get
it to work ( if it dosn't work on the first try.
Steve Clunn
>
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/11/30 Thu PM 09:56:04 EST
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: House battery maintenance charger
>
> Hello Dave,
>
> Yes you can, that's what I do. It's a Shumacher Solid State Smart charger I
> got from Wal-Mart. It is the smallest one they have,
> From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > I have a regular 12 volt battery in my car for the lights, fans, radio,
> > etc. I plan on hooking a
> > dc-dc between the traction pack and the house battery to supply power
> > during driving, but the
> > dc-dc will only be connected when I'm driving. When the car is off I don't
> > want any parasitic
> > loads draining the pack.
> >
> > Here's my question; is there any reason I can't hook up a simple trickle
> > charger to one leg of the
> > main charger 240 line to keep the 12 battery fresh? It would trickel
> > charge the 12v battery any
> > time the car is plugged in.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Dave Cover
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ...
>
> Very good question!
> I will have to research that. The website does not provide that
> specification. It says that it is specifically designed for drag racing,
> etc. etc...
> Ken
>
So did mine , was a wast of 500 dollars , Why not try the clutchless set up
first with a 2k zilla and a 11" net gain motor you will not need anything
other that 4th gear. I've written before how to make one of these. Now if your
not running that kind of power , then maybe you'd want some kind of clutch so
you can shift. , . There's a video of my truck taking off in 4th at
www.grassrootsev.com
Steve Clunn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Clutch selection...
>
>
> what is the toqure lbs of this clutch . ? I tried a lower end $500 racing
> clutch
> in my Mitsbieshi pu and It slipped , just before braking the hub . I then
> went
> clutchless and left it in 4th . The clutch I got was suppost to handle 400
> lbs
> toqure .
> Steve Clunn
> >
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: 2006/11/30 Thu AM 11:38:08 EST
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Clutch selection...
> >
> > For my Fiero conversion, I am eying a Clutchnet clutch (67005CR3) and
> > pressure
> plate (15704RR34) from Clutchnet.com and a Fidanza flywheel (198261 C15) from
> Ultrarev.com.
> > This will be coupled to a WarP-11.
> > Don't have the money yet but this is what I am looking at. Just thought I
> would seek comments from the racing gurus!
> >
> > Ken
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
> tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web,
> free AOL Mail and more.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes - I have a '86 Metro that is clutchless
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:31 AM
Subject: RE: Geo Metros
> Apparently the clutchless idea has been discussed to death on this
> board, but all before my time. What's the short answer? Are people
> using clutchless designs successfully, commonly?
>
>
>
>
> Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
>
>
> P.S. There's a GEO Metro with a dead motor and an automatic tranny on
> EBAY right now for $100. It's in California.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rich Long
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:16 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Geo Metros
>
> You might consider swapping a manual transmission for the automatic and
> going with a clutchless design ala Bob Batson's at Electric Vehicles of
> America.
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/560 - Release Date: 11/30/2006
3:41 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
