EV Digest 6186
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Transmission noise
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Recovering "lost" capacity (was: Soneil 2404S's cooked my
batteries :( )
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Freedom EV , Sunrise update, Re: Tesla Motors battery
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Source for bolts Help please!
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: http://slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/index.htm
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Transmission noise
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Clutchless CVT with Reverse using 2 motors and differential
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Transmission noise
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Direct Drive
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: DC converter wiring and safety contactors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: [EV] RE: Some newbie questions
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Battery Cap Question
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) EVLN(Ed Begley Jr. promoting the Phoenix Motorcars' EVs)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) EVLN(Kansas City's plug-in hybrid bus)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Fred,
When my transmission was new, it really growl at you, especially in the 1st
gear with a 19.5 ratio and taper off some in 2nd gear with 13.5 ratio and
nothing in 3rd with a 5.57 ratio. This did this for 10 years until I broke
everything down for maintenance and inspection.
My transmission gears have a ripple machine tooling on them, and according
to my master mechanic, this may be amplifying the noise factor. Normal wear
will reduce this noise.
The input shaft of the transmission will wobble slightly when its remove
from the input shaft bearing on the the motor shaft or motor coupling. I
replace this brass bearing in the motor with a new one, because the old one
did not allow a firm fit.
Before I install the transmission to the motor, I install some heavy white
wheel bearing grease in this bearing. Also make sure that the transmission
input shaft does not butt hard against this bearing. There should be about
0.1 inch space between the taper end of the shaft to the surface of the
bearing.
If there is no clearance, then you have to tap in the brass bearing in
further. Do not use those new needle bearing type, we found that these worn
out faster because some of the bearings did not rotated.
My transmission input shaft is just supported inside the transmission by a
ball bearing set, and if you put too much force on this bearing, it may make
noise.
I use some of that transmission additive made by Lucus that I got from NAPA.
This oil has long chain molecules that allows the oil to stay up longer at
the top of the gears.
The next ten years, the sound has reduce to nothing in the 2nd gear and
there is still some in 1st gear.
One more thing to look at, is to see if the drive line that slides into the
transmission does not butt all the way. Jack up the car and the drive line
should slide out out, and then lower it and there should still be at least
1/2 inch clearance.
I found that my drive line would bottom out when I would go over a bump,
make the axle go up higher after 20 years. I had to install new springs of
a longer length and a axle stop to prevent this.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 4:47 PM
Subject: Transmission noise
> Well I have just completed my first trial run with the DakotaEV but the EV
> grin was short lived. I first drove the EV to my church for Sunday
> services
> and it was a big hit with my friends at church. Then my son-in-law and
> granddaughter wanted me to give them a ride in it so I did. Each of the
> trips was about a two mile round trip. Near the end of the second two
> mile
> round trip, I noticed that there was a noise coming from somewhere around
> the transmission. It was not a loud noise but it seemed to be a grinding
> type of sound. I was not sure if something was actually wrong or if I was
> just hearing noises that would not be heard under normal ICE motor
> conditions. But I went on and pulled the transmission anyway, just to be
> safe. I did not find anything loose on the clutch/flywheel assembly. I
> did
> find that the front shaft on the transmission was a little loose. I was
> concerned about that being the source of the noise. The gears in the
> transmission looked very new as if someone had rebuilt the transmission
> recently. My question is to all of the EV'ers out there that uses
> transmissions. Does the fact that the electric motor being so much
> quieter
> than a standard ICE motor cause you to hear more common noises than you
> would normally not hear with the ICE motor? I am not a good enough
> transmission expert to tell if there are problems with the transmission.
> I
> can only tell what my eyes see when I inspect it. The transmission looks
> ok to me with the exception of the front shaft being loose. Also I did
> not
> measure the lube when I drained it out but I did notice that when I remove
> the side plug to check the level, I did not see or feel any fluid level in
> the transmission which leads me to believe that the transmission may have
> been low on lube. I would appreciate any advice as I would like to get
> this
> problem fixed so that I can get the EV back on the road. It was fun
> driving
> it until I started hearing the noise.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I also wanted to add:
If the battery capacity is low (due to sulfation, and/or
undercharging) you must somehow "cram" those missing amp-hours back
into the battery. The amp-hours aren't going to reappear out of thin air.
Thus, you have to "over" charge the battery in a controlled
way to force the missing amp-hours back in.
Bill D.
At 11:14 AM 12/1/2006, you wrote:
Batteries are probably not "cooked" but sulfated.
You need to charge them more aggressively occasionally. Bring them
up to 15 volts and hold them there for two or three hours. If the
capacity increases on the next cycle, do it again. Keep doing it
until you get no increase in capacity.
You should do an aggressive 15 volt charge like this on a regular
basis. Perhaps once per week if you drive the vehicle every day.
I like to use a timer and a 2 amp, 15 volt Toshiba laptop
power supply for this type charge.
Bill D.
At 10:50 AM 12/1/2006, you wrote:
All:
This is a repost from
http://visforvoltage.org
I've been charging the batteries in Buttercup (4 @ 12V x 17AH) in
two strings of two. (in the background at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/822)
Four months ago, I started with a set of four new PowerSonic 12018 batteries.
I had set it up so that each 24V charger would be plugged into one
half of the battery pack individually. My hope was that, if there
were any differences between the two chargers, by randomly plugging
them in, the differences would average out. Over time, the chargers
were left plugged into their respective sockets on the pack, and
just unplugged from the mains when I needed to use the scoot.
Four months later, pack voltage falls off after about 4AH of use.
After the voltage falls off, the voltages under load are as follows:
Charger A:
#1 11.8
#2 11.6
Charger B:
#3 8.6
#4 9.2
It sure looks like charger B has cooked the batteries. I can't
believe that two batteries failed at the same time.
I'm doing voltage cutoff measurements right now. I'll "report back"
if I learn anything else.
..... (time passes) ....
By my WattsUp meter, I did capacity tests and charge profile tests.
ALL batteries had lost capacity: Batts #1 & 2 were around 10AH
(14AH expected at given discharge rate), and #3 & 4 were around
4AH, and thus collapsing on the normal short commute.
In the charge profile, they charged at a constant 1.5A until 28.9V
(14.45/battery), then switched to constant voltage (mostly). When
voltage reached 28.97V (+-.03V) they fell back all the way ... to
28.03V (14.01V/battery) and held it at that voltage until I stopped
measuring at eight hours. About one full AH more was pumped through
the batteries.
Both bricks were within .02 volts of each other. The cutoff
voltages are different than noted in the 2404 literature
(SPEC2404S.022701). I checked the WattsUp against a Fluke voltmeter
and was within .03V in the range near 24V.
My Vector "quad charger" floats batteries at 13.1V/cell, with
periodic "float charge" periods of 13.7V (every few hours, for 10
minutes or so).
Right now, I'm not using the Soneil's at all. While the charge rate
was within the published max for PowerSonic batteries, the float
voltage was a few hundredths above maximum.
I have recieved no response from Soneil: their published e-mail
address is not valid, and they have not responded to the "feedback
form" I filled out at their website.
Remaining challenges: 1) Get a response from Soneil, and 2) see if
there is some way I can continue to use the bricks.
I'm just glad I didn't cook a pack of ten...
Disappointed,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
>
>> lol
>> A little optimistic I think. : )
>>
>> -Tehben
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> OK I may have gone off the deep end, on Tesla's stuff
>, yesterday, like Sheri, I have seen 'way too many EV
>projects die off, for lack of SOMETHING. Citi car, Segway,
>Silver Volt, Henny Kilowatt, all those guys. Only thing I
>can see about Tesla, other than a relatively realistic
>product is these guys have MONEY! Money to throw at the EV
>issues, as I believe that the Electric Car's issues aren't
>technical, but political! We all have scene the movie WKtEC
>, right? Money talks, RUNS the USA, anyhow. With the Best
>Govt. Oil Money can Buy, in power and isn't too likely to
>change anytime soon.
Money diffenently helps but a good design is more
important.
One has to be good in all areas like design,
production and marketing. Then to keep going you need
customer education. It's this lack of customer education
that killed earlier EV's, murdering their first and many
times only pack at 1k-2k miles!! Add to that going too big,
too fast and mostly using ICE as gliders are the biggest
reasons for EV company failures.
I'll solve these by designing from scratch as an EV
with a design built for ease of production and only sell to
EV'ers for at least a yr with internet customer service.
Since anything in it can be repaired or replaced in under 30
minutes, the customer can do their own with info, parts from
the factory. This itself could save the EV's price over 20
yrs instead of going to a mechanic, saving money, time and
downtime!!
Another failure point is making EV's with too
cutting edge, or as I call it the bleeding edge, technology.
Yet with good design using standard lead batts, it's not
hard to get over 100 mile+ range with an 80mph top speed
with inexpensive, common, industural EV parts with most of
it 40-100yrs old!! Hell, Jay Leno's 1909? Baker Electric
still goes 45mph and over 100 mile range on it's original
Edison NiFE batteries!! It's not like we need new tech!!
>
> Tesla has the bux that EVerybody else didn't/doesen't
>have. Yeah!
Money would be nice but it really doesn't take that
much if you use your own sweat equity. I'm going into
production on about $16k on a $13k EV, including a finished
showcar. By doing it without going deeply in debt, I'll be
profitable on the 3rd EV!!!!
Though with more money, I could have went much
faster, instead have to really be tight, doing things in a
harder way to save the bucks. Luckily I'm probably one of
the cheapest guys around :^D
>
>
> To try to get back on topic;Tesla may be the car, and
>company, whose TIMING is about just right?
Timing is everything!! GM crushing the EV-1 got
others to help me get into production. Now is the time if
anyone want to get in on the ground floor of the new EV era
I believe as EV's are the best way for future transport as
electricity will soon, if not already, be the cheapest
source of energy.
I mean, Gees! people EVen
>restore/ use Citicars! THEN they, after the electric bug
>has bitten, move up to REAL EV's built by their own hand ,
>well, conversions.Other folks, not as handy , hope and prey
>for SOMEBODY to do a afordable EV. Jerry Dycus? Got yur
>ears on<g>?Roll out at Battery Beach Burnout, we hope?
The Freedom EV is having some birthing pains. I'm
now on my 3rd front suspension design, not satified with the
first 2. This has set me back some but getting it down for
the BBB should be easy still.
Bought a nice 2 quart food storage container that
had the perfect shape, smoothness to be a great mold for my
headlight, saving a lot of work doing it from scratch.
Laying out the latest front suspension tonight for
building tomarrow. Hopefuuly this one will work well. It
should as I copied the Ewoody's VW Bug suspension. It worked
well for Porsche, the Ewoody and much easier to keep tire
drag low with much less scuffing/drag in the corners, bumps
and even straight down the road.
For those wanting the Sunrise EV glider to be
available soon, should get with Lee Hart, making a group
like my EVProduction list, to help with the start up costs,
speeding it up by probably a yr+. Lee would like to put more
in but he is limited in time and money. So if a group got
together and say 30 people put in $50-100 month or other
arrangements, would allow to to be done faster by hiring out
the glass, mold work and go towards a Sunrise glider,
probably the best EV ever built. So all you out there would
say you want EV's, here's your chance to get a great EV on
the road.
What do you all think?
>
> Seeya there?
I'm planning on it. I want to race this puppy on
the Autocross!!
>
> Bob in tropical CT 50 degrees today! No snow yet!
>
Tehben wrote
.,>Don't forget Phoenix Motors David.
.>.I don't get all of you skeptics??? Could you please tell
me what you
.>.are so skeptical about; you are EV owners and builders,
right?
.>Surely 'you' could build something similar with hundreds
of thousands
.>of $$$.
For much less!! And you could too!
I'm working on an EV supercar for someone else,
similar to the Telsa, that could be built for under $30k,
sold for about twice that.
Others could take say a Crobra Coupe by Factory Five
kitcar builder, does them to turn key except motor/trans for
about $20K. Order say 10 and you will probably get them for
about $12-15k already with batt racks, other mods. Add
another $10k for EV drive, batts and you could have one bad
ass EV that would sell well at $60k.
.>Am I missing something?
Yes, balls!!! You need rather large ones to say you
are going to do what Everyone else has failed at, Building
EV's. No? It takes a very unusual person to do such a thing
and they are not common.
But you are right, there are a good number of people
on this list who could build EV's in production. So far
only Lee and I are trying to do it.
Though if someone was to give out $100k each for
starting up an EV production line, you'd have several I'd
bet.
I got lucky, having extensive boat, composite design,
low unit production experience that went well with my E
tech, RE, EV experience, combined with a rather fearless
approach to problems like this. Because I had such broad
experience, I didn't have to hire out hardly any work,
keeping start up costs low.
Anyone else who wants to try, I'll and many others
will be glad to help.
Jerry Dycus
.>Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very good point Jeff.
I get high quality stuff from China because that's
what I spec. and will not accept crappy junk. I pay a
little more at China rates, but I also get acceptable
material. As an engineer, I decide what's acceptable
in the final product and if I can't get it from China
I will get parts from the US or any other country.
This is the problem we face as engineers, in high
quantity the China stuff is cheaper, even if it is
high quality. Should I design in higher priced stuff
just because it's from the US? Often times I do, but
at some point you need to design a competitive product
regardless of the origin or your company cannot
compete. It's a real design dilema that has no easy
answer.
Rod
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob eludes to a good point, Forgive if this is off
> topic.
>
> The cheap Chinese product symptom is really the
> greedy American
> distributer syndrome. Some have dictated price
> regardless of quality and
> the Chinese are happy to provide. If it wasn't for
> American
> distributors who have decided junk is the way to
> make the most profit,
> the Chinese probably wouldn't get such a bad rep.
>
> AKA the Walmart syndrome, Caveat emptor, "give the
> people what they
> want, if they don't know tell them what they want"
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is an interesting set of articles. (I cringed when I saw the
soldered tabs. Don't do this.) Nice to see the inside of the DeWalt tool pack.
The fellow that wrote the article talks about 70 amp 10 second
discharges with soldered tabs and scoffed that you couldn't hope to
get that many amps through the four tiny spot welds with the stock tabs.
With a single stock tab welded in place, you can draw over 100 amps
for 10 seconds. If you weld on a second tab right over the stock tab
(with four tiny spot welds) you can draw over 130 amps for 10
seconds, if you warm up the cells a bit.
For our fastest runs on the KillaCycle, we warm the cells to over 70
C and draw over 170 amps per cell. We do this though double tabs with
just four tiny welds. :-)
The welds work just fine and offer very low resistance. If you solder
the tab on the end of the cell instead, you will overheat the
separator and damage it. You will also damage the seal. Don't do
that. You will wound the cells and, as he demonstrates, you will not
be able to draw the full rated current out of them.
Bill Dube'
PS
We have not needed to replace a single one of the 880 A123
System cells in the KillaCycle battery pack. This is amazing since we
routinely push them far beyond their published ratings. They "take a
licking and keep on ticking."
At 06:19 PM 12/2/2006, you wrote:
I thought this may be of interest to some on the list.
disecting the M1 dewalt packs.
I have been looking at this as a economical way of getting into the M!
cells as the packs are made in such quantity that already we can get
pricing better than small qty pricing from A123.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I first converted the Civvy to all-electric, I
heard a transmission noise that was unnoticeable
before. (Primarily happened in first gear).
Either a) converting it to electric "loaded" the
transmission differently, which caused the noise, or
b) the sound of the ICE covered the fact that I had a
longstanding transmission noise issue, and going to
electric made it obvious.
The solution was to ditch the old tranny, (98K miles),
and put in a "new one" (110K miles). To this date,
it's much quieter!
Hope that helps,
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Fred,
>
> When my transmission was new, it really growl at
> you, especially in the 1st
> gear with a 19.5 ratio and taper off some in 2nd
> gear with 13.5 ratio and
> nothing in 3rd with a 5.57 ratio. This did this for
> 10 years until I broke
> everything down for maintenance and inspection.
>
> My transmission gears have a ripple machine tooling
> on them, and according
> to my master mechanic, this may be amplifying the
> noise factor. Normal wear
> will reduce this noise.
>
> The input shaft of the transmission will wobble
> slightly when its remove
> from the input shaft bearing on the the motor shaft
> or motor coupling. I
> replace this brass bearing in the motor with a new
> one, because the old one
> did not allow a firm fit.
>
> Before I install the transmission to the motor, I
> install some heavy white
> wheel bearing grease in this bearing. Also make
> sure that the transmission
> input shaft does not butt hard against this bearing.
> There should be about
> 0.1 inch space between the taper end of the shaft to
> the surface of the
> bearing.
>
> If there is no clearance, then you have to tap in
> the brass bearing in
> further. Do not use those new needle bearing type,
> we found that these worn
> out faster because some of the bearings did not
> rotated.
>
> My transmission input shaft is just supported inside
> the transmission by a
> ball bearing set, and if you put too much force on
> this bearing, it may make
> noise.
>
> I use some of that transmission additive made by
> Lucus that I got from NAPA.
> This oil has long chain molecules that allows the
> oil to stay up longer at
> the top of the gears.
>
> The next ten years, the sound has reduce to nothing
> in the 2nd gear and
> there is still some in 1st gear.
>
> One more thing to look at, is to see if the drive
> line that slides into the
> transmission does not butt all the way. Jack up the
> car and the drive line
> should slide out out, and then lower it and there
> should still be at least
> 1/2 inch clearance.
>
> I found that my drive line would bottom out when I
> would go over a bump,
> make the axle go up higher after 20 years. I had to
> install new springs of
> a longer length and a axle stop to prevent this.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 4:47 PM
> Subject: Transmission noise
>
>
> > Well I have just completed my first trial run with
> the DakotaEV but the EV
> > grin was short lived. I first drove the EV to my
> church for Sunday
> > services
> > and it was a big hit with my friends at church.
> Then my son-in-law and
> > granddaughter wanted me to give them a ride in it
> so I did. Each of the
> > trips was about a two mile round trip. Near the
> end of the second two
> > mile
> > round trip, I noticed that there was a noise
> coming from somewhere around
> > the transmission. It was not a loud noise but it
> seemed to be a grinding
> > type of sound. I was not sure if something was
> actually wrong or if I was
> > just hearing noises that would not be heard under
> normal ICE motor
> > conditions. But I went on and pulled the
> transmission anyway, just to be
> > safe. I did not find anything loose on the
> clutch/flywheel assembly. I
> > did
> > find that the front shaft on the transmission was
> a little loose. I was
> > concerned about that being the source of the
> noise. The gears in the
> > transmission looked very new as if someone had
> rebuilt the transmission
> > recently. My question is to all of the EV'ers out
> there that uses
> > transmissions. Does the fact that the electric
> motor being so much
> > quieter
> > than a standard ICE motor cause you to hear more
> common noises than you
> > would normally not hear with the ICE motor? I am
> not a good enough
> > transmission expert to tell if there are problems
> with the transmission.
> > I
> > can only tell what my eyes see when I inspect it.
> The transmission looks
> > ok to me with the exception of the front shaft
> being loose. Also I did
> > not
> > measure the lube when I drained it out but I did
> notice that when I remove
> > the side plug to check the level, I did not see or
> feel any fluid level in
> > the transmission which leads me to believe that
> the transmission may have
> > been low on lube. I would appreciate any advice
> as I would like to get
> > this
> > problem fixed so that I can get the EV back on the
> road. It was fun
> > driving
> > it until I started hearing the noise.
> >
> >
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The first 100 cars, their "signature edition"s, sold out, for $100,000 each.
The next 100 or so cars, not signature edition, is also sold out for
$100,000 each.
Together, those make up the "2007 1/2" model year for the Roadster.
For 2008, pricing starts at a base of $92,000, but that's because the
2007 1/2 model year includes all options, whereas for 2008 the options
are, well, optional.
(This is according to the Tesla Motors' Roadster Newsletter.)
On 11/14/06, Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I want one :)
Wonder what they are selling for?
Way, way, beyond my means I am sure.
-Tehben
On Nov 14, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> 5. Tesla Motors Honored with Award from Pop Mechanics
> Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> cleannewworld
> Date: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:16 pm ((PST))
>
> TESLA MOTORS RECEIVES PRESTIGIOUS
>
> 'BREAKTHROUGH AWARD' FROM POPULAR MECHANICS
>
> Magazine Honors Silicon Valley Manufacturer of Performance
> Electric Vehicles
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
> Contact: Dan Smith, PCGCampbell (310) 224-4954 or
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> NEW YORK (October 5, 2006) - Tesla Motors,
> manufacturers of
> performance electric cars, was named a recipient of a 2006 Popular
> Mechanics
> Breakthrough Award for its work in developing the Tesla Roadster, the
> world's first all-electric production sports car. The magazine's
> editors
> presented the 2006 winners their awards Wednesday evening at the
> publication's new home, the Hearst Tower in New York City.
>
> Popular Mechanics salutes 10 advancements each year--
> and their
> innovators--that promise to shape the future by improving lives and
> expanding possibilities in the realms of science, technology and
> exploration. 2006 is the second year the publication has presented its
> Breakthrough Awards.
>
> The Tesla Roadster is the first automobile to receive a
> Breakthrough Award.
>
> "The Breakthrough Awards distinguish those ideas and
> inventions
> that are changing the face of technology, and the Tesla Roadster is
> leading
> an automotive revolution," said James Meigs, editor-in-chief of
> Popular
> Mechanics. "Martin Eberhard and his team at Tesla Motors have
> developed a
> car with something for everyone-speed, great handling, good looks
> and zero
> emissions."
>
> "We're pleased to receive the Breakthrough Award," said
> Eberhard, CEO and co-founder of Tesla Motors. "We wanted to make a
> car that
> was fun to drive and environmentally responsible. Our key
> breakthrough is
> the concept of using Lithium-ion batteries which have long been
> used in
> laptops, cell phones, cameras, and power tools. Due to the number
> of cells
> that are used in a car we had to develop some unique technology for
> managing
> the temperature, charge balance and safety of the Tesla battery pack."
>
> Tesla Motors, based in San Carlos, Calif., in the heart of
> Silicon Valley, is in the process of bringing the all-electric Tesla
> Roadster sports car to market. It is capable of going from zero to
> 60 mph in
> around four seconds, has a top speed of better than 130 mph, and
> can travel
> up to 250 miles on a single charge. The car's power comes from its
> Lithium-ion Energy Storage System, or battery pack, which can be
> recharged
> in about 3.5 hours. First deliveries are expected to begin next
> summer.
>
> A complete report of the Popular Mechanics Breakthrough
> Awards
> will be published in their November 2006 issue (on newsstands
> October 10,
> 2006). High-resolution images of the winners will be available upon
> request
> and at www.popularmechanics.com.
>
> Past Winners include Hugh Herr for his advances in
> rehabilitative prosthetics, father and daughter duo Tim and Sarah
> Pickens
> for their rocket-powered bicycle, and the Microsoft Xbox 360.
>
> About Tesla Motors
>
> Tesla Motors was founded in July 2003 by Martin
> Eberhard and
> Marc Tarpenning to create efficient electric cars for people who
> love to
> drive. The Chairman of Tesla Motors, a privately held company, is
> Elon Musk,
> who has led or co-led all three rounds of investment resulting in $60
> million in funding. Musk has been instrumental in both corporate
> and product
> development at Tesla Motors.
>
> Tesla Motors currently employs more than 80 people,
> including
> teams in California, the U.K. and Taiwan. The company has recruited
> employees whose background and experience mirror the vehicle
> itself, drawing
> from diverse expertise in the electronics, automotive and software
> industries.
>
> Tesla Motors creates vehicles that conform to all U.S.
> safety,
> environmental and durability standards. The cars include modern safety
> equipment such as airbags, front crumple zones, side impact
> protection and
> 2½ mph bumpers. Tesla Motors will only sell cars in the U.S. once
> they pass
> the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS).
>
> For more information, visit www.teslamotors.com.
>
> About Popular Mechanics
>
> Popular Mechanics is published by Hearst Magazines, a
> unit of
> Hearst Corporation (www.hearst.com) and one of the world's largest
> publishers of monthly magazines, with a total of 18 U.S. titles and
> 145
> international editions. Hearst reaches more adults than any other
> publisher
> of monthly magazines (76.3 million according to MRI, spring 2005). The
> company also publishes 19 magazines in the United Kingdom through
> its wholly
> owned subsidiary, The National Magazine Company Limited.
>
> ###
>
> Dan Smith
>
> PCGCampbell . 2340 Plaza Del Amo, Suite 130 . Torrance,
> CA 90501
>
> (310) 224-4954 office
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Add a differential as CVT, driven by 2 electric motors at
> the half-shaft outputs, while the driveshaft input is now
> the output.
I'd reccomend trying to model this using RC car parts. It sounds to me
like one of those simple ideas that ends up being complicated to
implement.
-snip-
> I can imagine this setup with 2 shunt wound motors
How are you going to hold one motor stalled while the other turns?
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fred Hartsell wrote:
I noticed that there was a noise coming from somewhere around
the transmission... I did find that the front shaft on the transmission
was a little loose.
It is common for the transmission shaft not to have its own bearing, but
to depend on the crankshaft of the ICE for its front bearing. The
crankshaft will have a hole bored in its center, and a bearing is
pressed in (the pilot bearing), because when stopped, the ICE is
spinning while the transmission shaft is not.
It could be that your motor is mounted slightly off-center, so the
transmission shaft is being held off to the side. This would produce
noise, vibration, poor transmission gear mesh, and other problems.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
What about a locking torque converter?
Many vehicles now have them. With a locking torque converter, an
automatic transmission has essentially the same efficiency as a manual
transmission.
There are various ways that they are activated, mostly electronically or
hydraulically. The challenge with an EV conversion is to figure out how
to control the locking. The control is deeply embedded in the
transmission control computer, and not easy to "hack".
Actually, you could probably use a locking torque converter *without*
the transmission, if you can figure out a way to lock it manually. For
fast accelleration, let the torque converter multiply the torque by 2:1
or so, to give you a "first gear". But for all normal driving, just lock
it up and drive as a fixed ratio EV.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John wrote:
What are the benefits and drawbacks of wiring a DC-DC converter to be
always on versus switched on by the key switch? My planned vehicle usage
is a daily commute of about 1.25 hrs total drive time (about 40 min each
way).
There has been a lot of discussion on this (check the archives). Both
always-on and on-only-while-driving can work.
If you leave the DC/DC "on" all the time:
----------------------------------------
You'll need to set a low enough DC/DC "float" voltage so you won't
overcharge it. Typically, this means about 13.5v for a lead-acid
battery. It should be temperature compensated, or you'll overcharge in
hot weather, and undercharge in cold weather.
This is lower than a car's normal system voltage (14v), so your
headlights may be a bit dimmer, and your wipers a bit slower (like a
normal ICE car when the engine is idling).
The battery is unlikely to last more than 2-3 years. After that amount
of time, the battery will still appear to work, but most of its amphour
capacity will be gone due to water loss and grid corrosion.
If you leave the car parked for long periods without use, the 12v
battery stays charged. But the propulsion pack as a whole runs down. It
will discharge the entire pack if you leave it for months.
If you leave the DC/DC "on" continuously:
----------------------------------------
You need to set a high enough DC/DC voltage so the battery will be fully
charged in the brief on-time available. This could be 13.8v for a car
driven for hours every day, to 14.4v for a car only driven 1 hour a week.
Wipers are faster, and lights are brighter... but will also burn out
sooner (especially as you go above 14v).
If you set the DC/DC voltage too low, or don't drive very often, your
12v battery never gets fully charged. It tends to last a long time,
though it loses capacity.
If you set the DC/DC voltage too high, or drive a lot, the battery tends
to overcharge and die early.
If you have different DC/DC voltages for "on" and "off":
-------------------------------------------------------
Since you rarely know how many hours per week your EV will be driven, a
better arrangement is to leave the DC/DC "on" all the time, but set it
to a low voltage when not driving, and a higher voltage while driving.
This way you have a safe "float" voltage that won't slowly overcharge
the battery to death (like 13.2v), and a "driving" voltage that will
fully charge the battery and give you normal brightness headlights (like
14.2v).
The ideal setup:
---------------
There is no one "correct" voltage for the DC/DC to insure longest
battery life. What you really want is a battery charger, not a constant
voltage power supply that happens to have a battery on it.
Ideally, you would have one DC/DC converter to supply a steady 14v for
the vehicle's loads, and a *separate* 12v battery charger that powers
the DC/DC converter if the propulsion pack fails. This backup battery
only needs to be big enough for emergency loads, like emergency
flashers, in case the main DC/DC fails.
Would I need a relay on both the positive and negative leads from
the traction pack to the DC/DC?
No; you generally don't *need* to break both sides of the input power to
the DC/DC. However, you might *choose* to do so, for various reasons.
The relay or switch might need 2 or more sections in series to have an
adequate voltage rating.
For serviceability, you might want both sides broken.
(The converter is a CC power 400watt converter that has a 20amp fuse
that looks to be on the input side)
Make sure the fuse is DC rated for your pack voltage.
Would the relay or relays need a snubber circuit as is recommended for
ceramic heater relays?
Yes, but the relay/contact protection network is different. Most DC/DCs
are actually AC power supplies, and have huge input filter capacitors.
These cause a tremendous turn-on current surge, but negligible turn-off
current. So, your protection network is not protecting against inductive
turn-off voltage spikes, but rather capacitive turn-on surges.
These are generally called "precharge" or "inrush limiter" circuits
rather than snubbers.
Do I get any benefits from adding a single safety contactor? If yes, in
positive or negative lead? The appropriate sized contactors are not
cheap. I don't recall hearing of others conversion that include them.
There is no standard answer; it all depends on exactly how your EV is
built and wired.
Safety is the "what if..." game:
- What if... all your battery terminals are exposed, so any passing
child can touch them?
- What if... your batteries are under the hood, and there's an
inside hood release, so only responsible adults can get under there?
- What if... your batteries are in totally sealed boxes, that can
only be accessed by someone with tools and special equipment?
Each situation requires different degrees of safety. For each component,
you need to assess how what kind of fault conditions are possible, and
what is the likelihood of them occurring. Then you pick your safety
system components to provide adequate protection.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I think I'll get the 2.5hp motor. Those are 'self regulating' motors?
> ie, the RPM is constant and they draw different amps depending on load?
Most (all?) of the treadmill motors are Permanent Magnent motors. PM
motors pretty much want to spin at a fixed RPM that is related to the
applied voltage. They will slow with additional load (and therefor draw
more current), how much they slow depends on how efficient they are, the
higher the efficeincy the less they slow.
So yes, they are basically "self regulating" in regards to RPM.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey All,
I would like to replace the speedcaps that came on my floodies with something a
little less bulky, like a traditional cap. I was looking at the Water Misers
which can be seen at http://search.altenergystore.com/energy/battery%20caps.
They're a bit pricey at $4.00 a piece (x 60).
So a few questions. Has anyone used these and if so what did you think? Are
they worth the $? given they "say" they'll save electrolyte and reduce gas
emissions, and other such claims. If they do as advertised they may be worth
the extra $. If not, does anyone have a source for traditional screw in caps?
Thx, Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Ed Begley Jr. promoting the Phoenix Motorcars' EVs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://spyphotos.autoblog.com/2006/10/31/sema-ed-begley-jr-says-sema-can-help-with-electric-vehicles-i/
SEMA: Ed Begley Jr. says SEMA can help with electric vehicle's
image problem Posted Oct 31st 2006 6:17PM by Mike Magda
Filed under: Aftermarket, SEMA, Green
Surrounded by millions of fossil-fuel-thirsty horsepower in the
great hall of SEMA, Ed Begley Jr., the reigning poster boy of
environmental activists, asked himself, "The electric vehicle
rally was last month. Burning man has come and gone, what are you
doing here?"
Heeding the advice of Michael Corleone (Keep your friends close
but keep your enemies closer), Begley was promoting the Phoenix
Motorcars sport-utility truck and seeking SEMA guidance in the
cool factor.
"SEMA has style, innovation and engineering," said Begley. "We
need SEMA. We need to work with all the aftermarket to give style
to this vehicle. That's what's been lacking in electric
vehicles."
Begley touted the benefits of electric vehicles and hybrids,
focusing on the economic benefits. "Forget about the
environment," he said, noting that it cost him $12 to drive from
Los Angeles to Las Vegas. "It fits my pocketbook."
The Phoenix SUT is based on a rolling platform from an
undisclosed Korean automaker. It's fitted with a 200-horsepower
Enova motor and powered by Altairnano NanoSafe rechargeable
nano-titanate batteries. Altairnano says this technology has
advantages over traditional lithium ion batteries, the least of
which is generating less heat. The company also says the battery
can handle thousands more recharging cycles, so durability and
battery life are much longer. The Phoenix SUT is designed with a
range of 100 miles and can be recharged in 10 minutes with a fast
charger. Otherwise, it takes about 7 hours with a conventional
outlet. Top speed in the 3,800-pound truck is 95 mph. The GVWR is
4,800 pounds, which gives the SUT a 1,000-pound payload.
Dan Reigert of Phoenix says fleet operators are the first target
as the vehicle starts with a planned 500-unit production in 2007.
Vehicles are currently assembled by Boshart Engineering in
Southern California. If the technology can be transferred
effectively to Korea, production could expand to 6,000 the
following year and ultimately to to 100,000 by 2010. Initial
starting price is $45,000 but Reigert says the gasoline
equivalent operating cost is 30 cents to a gallon of gasoline.
All contents copyright © 2006, Weblogs, Inc. All rights
reserved. Autoblog is a member of the Weblogs, Inc. Network
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Kansas City's plug-in hybrid bus)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/18725/
Wednesday, November 01, 2006 :: infoZine Staff ::
KU Research Plugged Into Hybrid Buses in Kansas City
This week, as the Kansas City Area Transportation Authority
begins to test a new plug-in hybrid electric bus, University of
Kansas engineers will help monitor how it performs and measure
what impact it has on air quality.
Lawrence, Kan. - infoZine - The bus works by running on
electricity until the battery is nearly depleted. Then it
switches to a backup diesel engine and operates like a
conventional diesel-electric hybrid. It is later plugged into an
electrical outlet to recharge the battery. Using grid power for
some of its operation significantly reduces its use of petroleum
fuel.
The bus is unlike most hybrids in the United States today because
it's designed to receive most of its operating energy from
electricity. Also, a driver can choose to use only the battery
system instead of the diesel engine. Most hybrid vehicles only
use the electric battery when the car is accelerating or idle,
otherwise operating on gas or diesel.
"That will dramatically reduce air pollution emissions, at least
from the exhaust from the bus," said Dennis Lane, distinguished
professor of civil, environmental and architectural engineering
at KU.
Lane and his research team will use an on-board testing system to
monitor some mechanical operations and air emissions from the
tailpipe while the bus is in motion. Other partners will measure
additional operating parameters.
He said this is important because other factors influence the
bus' emissions, such as different drivers, bus speed, the number
of people on board or steep inclines.
They will compare emissions from the plug-in hybrid electric bus
to emissions from first-generation hybrids and pure gas or diesel
buses.
The Transportation Research Institute and other sources at KU are
funding $334,000 for the emissions testing and equipment. Kansas'
Sen. Pat Roberts and Rep. Jerry Moran led efforts in Congress to
fund the institute in 2005.
Lane is the principal investigator for the grant.
Karl Birns, adjunct research associate in civil, environmental
and architectural engineering at KU, is the Metropolitan Energy
Center's hybrid bus project manager and director of research.
"You get the advantage of clean emissions, less expensive energy
that can come from environmentally beneficial sources and more
efficiency that comes with an electric vehicle," said Birns.
Lane said many of the 256 metropolitan areas in the country are
either not meeting air pollution emissions standards or barely
meeting them.
"Transit diesel is a significant contributor to these emissions,"
he said.
Those cities are beginning to consider if replacing their pure
diesel or gas buses with hybrid electric buses would
significantly reduce emissions, he said.
The On-Grid Hybrid Electric Bus Consortium will unveil the bus at
1 p.m. Wednesday, Nov. 1, at Union Station in Kansas City. The
consortium comprises the Kansas City Area Transportation
Authority, the Metropolitan Energy Center and the Electric Power
Research Institute, a Palo Alto, Calif., science and technical
think tank.
Project partners are KU, the Federal Transit Administration and
DaimlerChrysler.
The vehicle used as the platform for demonstration of plug-in
technology is the Dodge Sprinter van. DaimlerChrysler is building
up to 40 plug-in hybrid Sprinters to test the technology. The
Electric Power Research Institute contracted the auto group to
build the vehicle and provided matching funding for its
development.
"I think that's pretty important to most of the urban areas in
the United States. I think they'll find the research KU is doing
of value to them," said Lane.
© 1994-2006 INFOZINE ® A REGISTERED TRADEMARK.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
--- End Message ---
