EV Digest 6188
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) : My ev Porsche 912's first ride
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: A123 http://slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/index.htm
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Heater (again)
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: There's a Skunk on the road
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Heater (again)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery Cap Question
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Grease and even more LRR tire testing
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Grease and even more LRR tire testing
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Clutch selection...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: powerbeam fly-cylinder at Calstart meeting
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Many to thank
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: [EV] Re: [EV] Re: Some newbie questions
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Heater (again)
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Now this is a practical small electric vehicle!
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Electric Scooters
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Grease and even more LRR tire testing
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Heater (again)
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) American EV Co's 35mph Kurrent Coupe EV - ??
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Grease and even more LRR tire testing
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Heater (again)
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Heater (again)
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Heater (again)
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Electric Scooters
by "George J. Jones, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
>
> >
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2006/11/30 Thu AM 04:02:27 EST
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Subject: My ev Porsche 912's first ride
> >
> > Well it's 3 am and I'm just getting back from my shop , at 12 I was closing
> > the door , after doing some work on the Satiurn conversion I'm doing for Mr
> > S . Out side my 1969 Porsche 912 sat with many little lights blinking at
> > me. I was checking out the Lee Hart Zerier diode/ light regulars I had put
> > on each of the 23 925 hawker oddessey that are now in My 912 ( 6 more are
> > in the car but not hooked up yet ) .These weigh 24lbs each , 25ah and are
> > said to put at 925 amps . The only thing thats been keeping me from Really
> > trying it out has been that the back lights weren't working . I've done a
> > few test rides to the end of the block but with out brake and tail lights,
> > I hadn't taken it out far . Some testing around and it looks like the back
> > lights where plugged into the wrong plug ( > o . Well I got lights , I
> > got a water pump pumping , got pot box in my had , and it late and the
> > streets are empty. The batteries have had a few cycles , and tonight they
> > seemed more ali!
ve. I had been pushing it a little more on each test ride but as I hadn't
gone to far , this was the first real test . I left it in 4th gear and still
was able spin the wheels , Would things held together when I realy opened it
?, I copyed Mat Grams motor coulper , coulping the 2 9" net gain motors with
doubble link 50 chain and everthing was humming right along . I was doing 70
mph before I know it .
> > The car seems to have much better traction than my Mitsubidhe Pick up watch
> > had the 11" net gain motor and could put on a nice tire burning smoke show.
> > The 912 just squits down and goes , with a little tire spine . Well it will
> > probable be awhile till I get the series / parellel motor switching set up
> > , but tonight I got one of those EV grins that won't let you sleep.
> > Steve Clunn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
Thanks for this info.
Does anyone know of sources of the A123 M1 cells other than Dewalt?
Regards, Rod Dilkes
www.dilkesmotors.com
> I thought this may be of interest to some on the list.
> disecting the M1 dewalt packs.
> I have been looking at this as a economical way of getting into the M!
> cells as the packs are made in such quantity that already we can get
> pricing better than small qty pricing from A123.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic heater. 144v pack. 250v DC
relay. I picked up the DC at the positive input to the Raptor 600 so that the
heater would only operate when the contactor was on. Seemed safer that way.
If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights indicating a miswiring
apparently.
The relay only lasted for a few cycles and failed closed as you suggested it
would.
I am wondering why it failed. Does the Raptor make the current dirty enough
that the relay can't handle it? Or is there a problem in turning off the 144v
source while the relay is in the on position? Or am I missing something else?
Fortunately, as Bob Rice keeps observing; the weather has been most cooperative
and the need for heat has not been great, but this won't last.
I'm about to solve the problem with an old 2-pole knife switch, turning on the
blower and the element with one switch- but apparently I will have to remember
to leave it off when starting up the controller.
And to think I thought installing the element in the heater box was the
difficult part of the project! Only had to dissemble the entire dash and its
supporting structure to do that.
Thanks,
storm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations for getting some print, John.
http://www.gridleyherald.com/articles/2006/12/01/news/news04.txt
John Neiswanger wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I finally got my conversion put back together and on
> the road. As the
> painter was doing the paint job, he said it looked
> like a skunk and the
> name stuck. I have uploaded a couple of pictures to
> the EV Album site for
> anyone who is interested.
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/751
>
> respectfully,
> John
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Have a burning question?
Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You told where you picked p the positive, but you
didn't say where you picked up the negative. The
heater floats, just like the pack.
I think the issue is that the "brain" of the
controller compares current on the bus bar, as well as
one of those low gauge wires going in via the harness.
If they don't match, that might account for your
issue.
RE: The heater going on only when the contactor was
on: If you've wired a normal KTA Services heater relay
with spark suppression, then your keyswitch will
control the heater relay, and you cannot turn it on
without contactor being on as well.
Hope that helps,
--- Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic
> heater. 144v pack. 250v DC relay. I picked up the DC
> at the positive input to the Raptor 600 so that the
> heater would only operate when the contactor was on.
> Seemed safer that way.
>
> If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights
> indicating a miswiring apparently.
>
> The relay only lasted for a few cycles and failed
> closed as you suggested it would.
>
> I am wondering why it failed. Does the Raptor make
> the current dirty enough that the relay can't handle
> it? Or is there a problem in turning off the 144v
> source while the relay is in the on position? Or am
> I missing something else? Fortunately, as Bob Rice
> keeps observing; the weather has been most
> cooperative and the need for heat has not been
> great, but this won't last.
>
> I'm about to solve the problem with an old 2-pole
> knife switch, turning on the blower and the element
> with one switch- but apparently I will have to
> remember to leave it off when starting up the
> controller.
>
> And to think I thought installing the element in the
> heater box was the difficult part of the project!
> Only had to dissemble the entire dash and its
> supporting structure to do that.
>
> Thanks,
> storm
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, I don't go with exotic. I just went down to
Interstate, and they saved enough caps to do all 72
cells over about a 3-week period.
--- Mike Harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> I would like to replace the speedcaps that came on
> my floodies with something a little less bulky, like
> a traditional cap. I was looking at the Water Misers
> which can be seen at
>
http://search.altenergystore.com/energy/battery%20caps.
> They're a bit pricey at $4.00 a piece (x 60).
>
> So a few questions. Has anyone used these and if so
> what did you think? Are they worth the $? given they
> "say" they'll save electrolyte and reduce gas
> emissions, and other such claims. If they do as
> advertised they may be worth the extra $. If not,
> does anyone have a source for traditional screw in
> caps?
>
> Thx, Mike
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most of the EV'ers are use to looking at the AH meter or WtHh meter on a
E-Meter. I monitor the motor amp and volt meter 99 percent of the time and
only the AH at 1 percent to see if the AH is between 40 to 50 AH which is
the limit I place on the SOS.
The motor amp meter normally reads 220 amps at 65 volts with the old tires
at 30 mph. Now it reads 210-212 amps at 60 volts. This becomes 5 volts x
18 amps = 90 watts.
I should have said 90 watts or 18 amps reduction in motor amps.
Motor amps is the most important instrument for me. I do not monitor
battery amps as much, because the batteries are limit by the Zilla to 240
amps and I never go below 78% SOS which would take me over a week to do.
I do not have to worry about my range, where I have to squeeze every bit of
energy out of the batteries.
When I remove 40 to 50 ah from the batteries which is still above 80% SOS
which takes me a week or two to get there, then I charge them.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: Grease and even more LRR tire testing
> On 2 Dec 2006 at 12:52, Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > I am running about 90 watts per mile less than my old 8 ply nylon tires
>
> I hope you mean watt HOURS per mile less. Watts per mile is a nonsense
> unit.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: Grease and even more LRR tire testing
> Ah yes, the old nylon tires. I remember those days well.
>
> These tires are modern radials Roland. I wish they had told us brands
> as well. I am interested in the ones that had LRR in cold weather. Oh
> well. At least the grease info is good.
>
> Mike
The best tire I ever had was a Goodyear Polyglass (not radial ply) which had
straight highway threads, no all weather type that was a 8 ply rating at
2010 lbs load rating at 40 psi.
The roll down on a 7 percent average hill grade that was 2 miles long had a
additional roll out on the level of another 3 miles. The old nylon radial
would slow to a stop in the next 1 mile.
The new tires I have which are Polyglass radials do not have the roll out
distance as I had with the non-radial type 1975 Goodyears. They also was a
very smooth riding tire.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is somewhat a quandary. I really love to shift! Why? I don't know, I
just love it! I also plan on having that much power. Regardless, the
transmission (Getrag MG282) is "only" rated for 400 lbft of torque. However,
they
holds up just fine with big blown (very blown) V8's and have a very good
durability record, but I realize that is no match for a Warp-11 at 2,000 Amps.
I also plan on this being a test car that will be in perpetual development,
so I do expect some failures, though I don't want to deliberately design in
failures! It is also my daily driver involving routine "molasses" traffic and
highway driving.
It is clear that some elements of the system compromise others so it is a
matter of deciding what compromise is more desirable than another.
I have requested the torque specs. from Clutch Net, but haven't heard back
yet.
Mainly curious if anyone has had any experience with this clutch (67005CR3)
and pressure
plate (15704RR34) combination...
Ken
In a message dated 11/30/2006 10:39:19 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ...
>
> Very good question!
> I will have to research that. The website does not provide that
specification. It says that it is specifically designed for drag racing, etc.
etc...
> Ken
>
So did mine , was a wast of 500 dollars , Why not try the clutchless set up
first with a 2k zilla and a 11" net gain motor you will not need anything
other that 4th gear. I've written before how to make one of these. Now if
your not running that kind of power , then maybe you'd want some kind of clutch
so you can shift. , . There's a video of my truck taking off in 4th at
www.grassrootsev.com
Steve Clunn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Clutch selection...
>
>
> what is the toqure lbs of this clutch . ? I tried a lower end $500 racing
clutch
> in my Mitsbieshi pu and It slipped , just before braking the hub .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> A reminder : this list is focused on EVs. Other alternative
transportation
> technologies, interesting as they may be, should be discussed on other
> lists, newsgroups, or forums.
I looked this up on the internet and it seems to be an energy storage
device. I'll quote:"For ev's" Lawrence Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Recently while doing extensive high current testing of my Warp 8" powered
Fiero ( In technical terms that's Waylandizing my ride) I caused a spontaneous
brush rigging disassembly. ( in technical terms that's a big Arcing Sparky
with plasma balls & flames) Well, needless to say I was understandably
mortified. For those not well versed in EV language that's called being a
Doofus again
& getting caught at it.
After pulling the wounded motor and determining the extent of the damage I
called Jim from Hi-Torque and a few of my EV friends.
Mad Man Rudman makes frequent parts runs to Portland and agreed to
transport the motor to Plasma Boy Waylands house.
Plasma boy agreed to coordinate the transfer to Jim the Motor God from
Hi-Torque.
Jim the Motor God quickly worked his magic (at a very reasonable price I
mign't add) and talked Father Time into transporting it back to me during one
of his parts runs.
Father Time (Don Crabtree) Dropped the motor off at my shop on his way
back from picking up a motor shaft for one of his creations.
I carefully (The technical term for careful is having the right amount of
nuts & bolts with none left over) reinstalled it back into my Fiero. After a
couple of runs to wake the battery pack up my EV grin is back in face
spltting mode.
Many thanks to Rich Rudman, John Wayland, Jim Husted, and Don Crabtree You
gentlemen make the EV community great.
Sincerely
Pat Sweeney
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Try looking here:
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UID=2006120123531814&catname=electric&keyword=MBDD
>
this one:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006120311074779&item=10-1783&catname=electric
look just like what I need for the hydraulics. It should spin around 3/4000rpms
with 96 volts... so I can power the pump directly.
Maybe it can work for the aircon also... cheap enough to buy one and
test it.
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But if the relay fails on- like the contacts weld shut- then the heater will
remain on even though the car is off. Roland is having influence. :-)
----- Original Message ----
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 9:37:40 AM
Subject: Re: Heater (again)
You told where you picked p the positive, but you
didn't say where you picked up the negative. The
heater floats, just like the pack.
I think the issue is that the "brain" of the
controller compares current on the bus bar, as well as
one of those low gauge wires going in via the harness.
If they don't match, that might account for your
issue.
RE: The heater going on only when the contactor was
on: If you've wired a normal KTA Services heater relay
with spark suppression, then your keyswitch will
control the heater relay, and you cannot turn it on
without contactor being on as well.
Hope that helps,
--- Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic
> heater. 144v pack. 250v DC relay. I picked up the DC
> at the positive input to the Raptor 600 so that the
> heater would only operate when the contactor was on.
> Seemed safer that way.
>
> If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights
> indicating a miswiring apparently.
>
> The relay only lasted for a few cycles and failed
> closed as you suggested it would.
>
> I am wondering why it failed. Does the Raptor make
> the current dirty enough that the relay can't handle
> it? Or is there a problem in turning off the 144v
> source while the relay is in the on position? Or am
> I missing something else? Fortunately, as Bob Rice
> keeps observing; the weather has been most
> cooperative and the need for heat has not been
> great, but this won't last.
>
> I'm about to solve the problem with an old 2-pole
> knife switch, turning on the blower and the element
> with one switch- but apparently I will have to
> remember to leave it off when starting up the
> controller.
>
> And to think I thought installing the element in the
> heater box was the difficult part of the project!
> Only had to dissemble the entire dash and its
> supporting structure to do that.
>
> Thanks,
> storm
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Especially for hot climates!
Ebay Auction 250054081127
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a brother in law with MS, and who broke his hip last year. So
walking isn't his favorite activity any more...
I'd love to get him a Segway, but that is definitely Out Of Budget.
So, has anyone had any experiences with these:
http://www.x-tremescooters.com/electric_scooters/xt300/xt300.html
It's a segway knock-off - using 4 wheels.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to Storm and All,
Storm Connors wrote:
I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic heater.
Bad Idea.
I picked up the DC at the positive input to the Raptor 600 so that the heater
would only operate when the contactor was on. Seemed safer that way.
If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights indicating a miswiring
apparently.
This is a common mistake many do. By supplying the heater's B+ off the
same terminal or same the same NO side of the contactor that feeds the
controller's B+ input, if the element is turned on, it saps away the
precharge current the controller is looking for before it can power up
and close the contactor. Instead of charging up the caps inside the
controller, the precharge is trying to also power the heater element. I
understand wanting the extra safety of connecting the heater's core
after the main contactor...you can still do it. Keep reading.....
The relay only lasted for a few cycles and failed closed as you suggested it
would.
I'm not surprised by this.
I am wondering why it failed.
The solid state switchers of the relay are rated to go to zero potential
60 times a second on an AC line, and are not rated for pure DC. There's
also a large spike on turn-off due to wiring reactance sometimes that
could also be playing havoc with your solid state relay.
I'm about to solve the problem with an old 2-pole knife switch, turning on the
blower and the element with one switch- but apparently I will have to remember
to leave it off when starting up the controller.
I've posted many times in the past, about the way I control my ceramic
elements, with not a single failure...ever! Use a small Potter/Brumfield
relay with a built in magnetic blow-out inside, model KUEP-3D15-12, 12V
coil. It also has the number KUE-90005 on it as well. It's about 1 x 2
inches and about $12-$15 depending on who you buy it from, and though
rated for 10 amps @ 150V DC, it can easily handle 192V and a ceramic
element without any problems. This little relay has a clear cover, so
you can watch it's contacts open under a 192V / ceramic element load in
a darkened room and see how effectively the permanent magnet (glued
between the contact tips) extinguishes the arc. To add safety to the
setup, I also use a .1 mfd 630V snubber cap across the contact terminals
as well. This system is far cheaper, more compact, and pretty much
arc-less when compared to that big open frame Frankenstein type relay
and all its peripheral snubbers needed, that others use.
Wire this small relay's coil so that it's power-on switch goes to at
+12V (through the heater blower circuit so the element can only be 'on'
while the fan is blowing) while the other coil lead gets its -12V juice
off the main contactor coil's -12V terminal, as toggled from the
controller's precharge sense circuitry. You can leave your element's
positive feed lead (through this little relay's contact set) connected
after the main contactor to HV B+ the way you currently have it for that
added safety thing.
This setup allows the controller to precharge without the extra drain of
the element, then when the contactor is told to close (by the
controller), at the same time the heater relay gets the same -12V signal
to close, too.
Hope this helps.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The best tire I ever had was a Goodyear Polyglass (not radial ply) which had
straight highway threads, no all weather type that was a 8 ply rating at
2010 lbs load rating at 40 psi.
These?
http://www.drclassic.com/catalog/Camaro/Tires/TR0067.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not use a solid state relay? They take big amps, work with DC and
without worry about CEMF and come in a small package. Just protect
everything properly and they should dot the trick. I have to do something
different because of the environmental cabin temperature controller on my
Saab. I must be able to open the heater vent and control the heating
element via this controller. So that is the plan for me.
Here is one link and I am sure they can be purchased elsewhere for much
less, but I haven't needed to buy one yet.
http://www.power-io.com/products/hdd.htm
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Heater (again)
But if the relay fails on- like the contacts weld shut- then the heater
will remain on even though the car is off. Roland is having influence. :-)
----- Original Message ----
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 9:37:40 AM
Subject: Re: Heater (again)
You told where you picked p the positive, but you
didn't say where you picked up the negative. The
heater floats, just like the pack.
I think the issue is that the "brain" of the
controller compares current on the bus bar, as well as
one of those low gauge wires going in via the harness.
If they don't match, that might account for your
issue.
RE: The heater going on only when the contactor was
on: If you've wired a normal KTA Services heater relay
with spark suppression, then your keyswitch will
control the heater relay, and you cannot turn it on
without contactor being on as well.
Hope that helps,
--- Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic
heater. 144v pack. 250v DC relay. I picked up the DC
at the positive input to the Raptor 600 so that the
heater would only operate when the contactor was on.
Seemed safer that way.
If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights
indicating a miswiring apparently.
The relay only lasted for a few cycles and failed
closed as you suggested it would.
I am wondering why it failed. Does the Raptor make
the current dirty enough that the relay can't handle
it? Or is there a problem in turning off the 144v
source while the relay is in the on position? Or am
I missing something else? Fortunately, as Bob Rice
keeps observing; the weather has been most
cooperative and the need for heat has not been
great, but this won't last.
I'm about to solve the problem with an old 2-pole
knife switch, turning on the blower and the element
with one switch- but apparently I will have to
remember to leave it off when starting up the
controller.
And to think I thought installing the element in the
heater box was the difficult part of the project!
Only had to dissemble the entire dash and its
supporting structure to do that.
Thanks,
storm
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So wonder how the Think they are going to get round the 25 mph Limit on
NEV's OR cars with out air bags, and crash testing.
Was going to POST this question right to THEM at AEV... but Google did
not bring up any web site that I could find....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ryan,
The thread pattern was about the same, but my a was H-78-15 Subernite x G
Polyglass 8 ply 2010 lbs load rating @ 40 psi. There were 28.35 inches in
diameter, that has a deflection rate of 3/8 of a inch of the side walls.
Goodyear does not make these Polyglass in a load range for a 15 inch wheel.
They now have these load ranges in a 18 inch wheel. They do have only one
type that is a heavy duty truck tire in a 15 inch which has a load range of
80 lbs at 2800 lbs load rating that is mounted on a wheel with a load rating
of 3500 lbs which was too heavy.
I choose a Pierelli 6 ply thread and 2 ply sides that is a P235/75 R15 with
at load rating of 2350 lbs at 65 psi which is design for a SUB, but was be
able to hold the deflection rate to 3/8 inch.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: Grease and even more LRR tire testing
> > The best tire I ever had was a Goodyear Polyglass (not radial ply) which
> > had
> > straight highway threads, no all weather type that was a 8 ply rating at
> > 2010 lbs load rating at 40 psi.
>
> These?
>
> http://www.drclassic.com/catalog/Camaro/Tires/TR0067.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
When I was looking for a relay for my setup I found your past posts
suggesting this relay (and one of the parts suppliers on the list
recommends this relay for switching heaters). In that post and this one
you refer to system voltages 150v and higher.
With a lower system voltage (144 v for example) it seems the 10 amp
limit of the relay is approached or exceeded with a 1500 watt element.
I went with the "frankenstein type" because it has a higher rated
current limit.
Is this an overly simplified or otherwise flawed line of thinking?
On Sunday, December 3, 2006, at 01:40 PM, John Wayland wrote:
Hello to Storm and All,
I'm about to solve the problem with an old 2-pole knife switch,
turning on the blower and the element with one switch- but apparently
I will have to remember to leave it off when starting up the
controller.
I've posted many times in the past, about the way I control my ceramic
elements, with not a single failure...ever! Use a small
Potter/Brumfield relay with a built in magnetic blow-out inside, model
KUEP-3D15-12, 12V coil. It also has the number KUE-90005 on it as
well. It's about 1 x 2 inches and about $12-$15 depending on who you
buy it from, and though rated for 10 amps @ 150V DC, it can easily
handle 192V and a ceramic element without any problems. This little
relay has a clear cover, so you can watch it's contacts open under a
192V / ceramic element load in a darkened room and see how effectively
the permanent magnet (glued between the contact tips) extinguishes the
arc. To add safety to the setup, I also use a .1 mfd 630V snubber cap
across the contact terminals as well. This system is far cheaper, more
compact, and pretty much arc-less when compared to that big open frame
Frankenstein type relay and all its peripheral snubbers needed, that
others use.
Hope this helps.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
Did you read my post?
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 2:59:48 PM
Subject: Re: Heater (again)
Why not use a solid state relay? They take big amps, work with DC and
without worry about CEMF and come in a small package. Just protect
everything properly and they should dot the trick. I have to do something
different because of the environmental cabin temperature controller on my
Saab. I must be able to open the heater vent and control the heating
element via this controller. So that is the plan for me.
Here is one link and I am sure they can be purchased elsewhere for much
less, but I haven't needed to buy one yet.
http://www.power-io.com/products/hdd.htm
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Heater (again)
> But if the relay fails on- like the contacts weld shut- then the heater
> will remain on even though the car is off. Roland is having influence. :-)
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 9:37:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Heater (again)
>
> You told where you picked p the positive, but you
> didn't say where you picked up the negative. The
> heater floats, just like the pack.
> I think the issue is that the "brain" of the
> controller compares current on the bus bar, as well as
> one of those low gauge wires going in via the harness.
> If they don't match, that might account for your
> issue.
> RE: The heater going on only when the contactor was
> on: If you've wired a normal KTA Services heater relay
> with spark suppression, then your keyswitch will
> control the heater relay, and you cannot turn it on
> without contactor being on as well.
> Hope that helps,
>
>
> --- Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic
>> heater. 144v pack. 250v DC relay. I picked up the DC
>> at the positive input to the Raptor 600 so that the
>> heater would only operate when the contactor was on.
>> Seemed safer that way.
>>
>> If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights
>> indicating a miswiring apparently.
>>
>> The relay only lasted for a few cycles and failed
>> closed as you suggested it would.
>>
>> I am wondering why it failed. Does the Raptor make
>> the current dirty enough that the relay can't handle
>> it? Or is there a problem in turning off the 144v
>> source while the relay is in the on position? Or am
>> I missing something else? Fortunately, as Bob Rice
>> keeps observing; the weather has been most
>> cooperative and the need for heat has not been
>> great, but this won't last.
>>
>> I'm about to solve the problem with an old 2-pole
>> knife switch, turning on the blower and the element
>> with one switch- but apparently I will have to
>> remember to leave it off when starting up the
>> controller.
>>
>> And to think I thought installing the element in the
>> heater box was the difficult part of the project!
>> Only had to dissemble the entire dash and its
>> supporting structure to do that.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> storm
>>
>>
>
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Cheap talk?
> Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
> http://voice.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 3, 2006, at 6:10 AM, Storm Connors wrote:
I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic heater. 144v pack.
250v DC relay. I picked up the DC at the positive input to the Raptor
600 so that the heater would only operate when the contactor was on.
Seemed safer that way.
If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights indicating a
miswiring apparently.
Don't do that! The Raptor precharge circuit is trying to power the
heater. The heater will draw too power meant for the Raptor capacitors
and the system will fail to precharge (thus the failure lights.) This
can also damage the precharge circuit in the Raptor, leading to
terminal start up failure lights.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Paul. I'm not sure I understand why it happens, but anything that
triggers the trouble indication on the controller can't be good. It seems
strange that tapping the battery for the heater would have any effect other
than slightly lowering the voltage. It seems like all I have is a heater in
parallel with the controller. I will have to try connecting on the other side
of the contactor. If I get a different result, I will be even more puzzled.
Thanks again,
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 6:38:03 PM
Subject: Re: Heater (again)
On Dec 3, 2006, at 6:10 AM, Storm Connors wrote:
> I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic heater. 144v pack.
> 250v DC relay. I picked up the DC at the positive input to the Raptor
> 600 so that the heater would only operate when the contactor was on.
> Seemed safer that way.
>
> If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights indicating a
> miswiring apparently.
Don't do that! The Raptor precharge circuit is trying to power the
heater. The heater will draw too power meant for the Raptor capacitors
and the system will fail to precharge (thus the failure lights.) This
can also damage the precharge circuit in the Raptor, leading to
terminal start up failure lights.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No good, poor service. It's not even a good toy
Gman
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Electric Scooters
I have a brother in law with MS, and who broke his hip last year. So
walking isn't his favorite activity any more...
I'd love to get him a Segway, but that is definitely Out Of Budget.
So, has anyone had any experiences with these:
http://www.x-tremescooters.com/electric_scooters/xt300/xt300.html
It's a segway knock-off - using 4 wheels.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John wrote:
In that post and this one you refer to system voltages 150v and higher.
With a lower system voltage (144 v for example) it seems the 10 amp
limit of the relay is approached or exceeded with a 1500 watt element.
I went with the "frankenstein type" because it has a higher rated
current limit.
OK, understood.
Is this an overly simplified or otherwise flawed line of thinking?
You're correct from a strictly technical aspect, that the current would
be a bit too high for this nifty little relay. At system voltages lower
than 156V, the element's current is higher than the continuous contact
ratings...at 144V it's closer to 11 amps. At 156V - 192V though, it's a
really nice solution being fully enclosed and far more compact with no
open moving parts like the much larger "frankenstein type".
You mentioned that you had read my posts, thanks. If you had read some
more (I know, there's a lot of them) you would have found that these
relays easily exceed their modest 10 amp ratings. For example, I used
two of these relays in Red Beastie, a 120V machine. I had one
KUEP-3D15-12 relay for each of the two elements that truck had, and
though the current exceeded the contact ratings, there never were any
contact problems in the three and a half years I had the truck.
Subsequently, the truck was sold to East Coast EVer Tony Ascrizzi who
drove the truck through six years of c-c-cold Mass. winters, and he
too, never had a single contact failure with the relays, so that 10 amp
current rating, as I said, is conservative. Both relays worked
flawlessly for 8 and 9 years respectively (I had a single element from
'97-'98, then added the second element and relay in '98.).The only thing
that finally did do both of them in, was the terrible demise of Red
Beastie earlier this year in that freak flying dump truck accident that
flattened the Beastie, then burnt the famous electric truck to a crisp :-(
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
