EV Digest 6189
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Heater (again): How to save E-mail
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Red Beastie was: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Outlaw 912s
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Heater (again)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Heater (again): How to save E-mail
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Link-10/E-meter Availabity
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) EVLN(More GM lies? : 'GM believes EVs are the future')
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EVLN(Phoenix Motorcars' solid market response)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) EVLN(Havraneks VW Beetle EV, the Internet made it easy)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) EVLN(Uplift diesels to plug-in hybrids)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks John. Now I see what I was missing when Paul tried to explain it. The
contactor is still open when all this is happening. It isn't the parallel
connection I thought it was. Send me a dope slap!
I will go looking for the relay and hook it up as you suggest.
Too bad this oft repeated message of yours couldn't be put somewhere
accessible. Finding such things in the archives is nearly impossible.
Thanks again,
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 1:40:19 PM
Subject: Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
Hello to Storm and All,
Storm Connors wrote:
>I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic heater.
>
Bad Idea.
>I picked up the DC at the positive input to the Raptor 600 so that the heater
>would only operate when the contactor was on. Seemed safer that way.
>If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights indicating a miswiring
>apparently.
>
>
This is a common mistake many do. By supplying the heater's B+ off the
same terminal or same the same NO side of the contactor that feeds the
controller's B+ input, if the element is turned on, it saps away the
precharge current the controller is looking for before it can power up
and close the contactor. Instead of charging up the caps inside the
controller, the precharge is trying to also power the heater element. I
understand wanting the extra safety of connecting the heater's core
after the main contactor...you can still do it. Keep reading.....
>The relay only lasted for a few cycles and failed closed as you suggested it
>would.
>
>
I'm not surprised by this.
>I am wondering why it failed.
>
The solid state switchers of the relay are rated to go to zero potential
60 times a second on an AC line, and are not rated for pure DC. There's
also a large spike on turn-off due to wiring reactance sometimes that
could also be playing havoc with your solid state relay.
>I'm about to solve the problem with an old 2-pole knife switch, turning on the
>blower and the element with one switch- but apparently I will have to remember
>to leave it off when starting up the controller.
>
>
>
I've posted many times in the past, about the way I control my ceramic
elements, with not a single failure...ever! Use a small Potter/Brumfield
relay with a built in magnetic blow-out inside, model KUEP-3D15-12, 12V
coil. It also has the number KUE-90005 on it as well. It's about 1 x 2
inches and about $12-$15 depending on who you buy it from, and though
rated for 10 amps @ 150V DC, it can easily handle 192V and a ceramic
element without any problems. This little relay has a clear cover, so
you can watch it's contacts open under a 192V / ceramic element load in
a darkened room and see how effectively the permanent magnet (glued
between the contact tips) extinguishes the arc. To add safety to the
setup, I also use a .1 mfd 630V snubber cap across the contact terminals
as well. This system is far cheaper, more compact, and pretty much
arc-less when compared to that big open frame Frankenstein type relay
and all its peripheral snubbers needed, that others use.
Wire this small relay's coil so that it's power-on switch goes to at
+12V (through the heater blower circuit so the element can only be 'on'
while the fan is blowing) while the other coil lead gets its -12V juice
off the main contactor coil's -12V terminal, as toggled from the
controller's precharge sense circuitry. You can leave your element's
positive feed lead (through this little relay's contact set) connected
after the main contactor to HV B+ the way you currently have it for that
added safety thing.
This setup allows the controller to precharge without the extra drain of
the element, then when the contactor is told to close (by the
controller), at the same time the heater relay gets the same -12V signal
to close, too.
Hope this helps.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Storm,
To save this email or any email:
Click X to close out the E-mail you are reading.
Then right click the E mail in the subject line
A drop down menu will appear and click save.
Then just follow directions which you will name it.
A E-mail file will show up on the left side of the E-mail page which you can
click at any time to bring it up.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
> Thanks John. Now I see what I was missing when Paul tried to explain it.
> The contactor is still open when all this is happening. It isn't the
> parallel connection I thought it was. Send me a dope slap!
>
> I will go looking for the relay and hook it up as you suggest.
>
> Too bad this oft repeated message of yours couldn't be put somewhere
> accessible. Finding such things in the archives is nearly impossible.
>
> Thanks again,
> storm
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 1:40:19 PM
> Subject: Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
>
> Hello to Storm and All,
>
> Storm Connors wrote:
>
> >I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic heater.
> >
>
> Bad Idea.
>
> >I picked up the DC at the positive input to the Raptor 600 so that the
> >heater would only operate when the contactor was on. Seemed safer that
> >way.
> >If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights indicating a
> >miswiring apparently.
> >
> >
>
> This is a common mistake many do. By supplying the heater's B+ off the
> same terminal or same the same NO side of the contactor that feeds the
> controller's B+ input, if the element is turned on, it saps away the
> precharge current the controller is looking for before it can power up
> and close the contactor. Instead of charging up the caps inside the
> controller, the precharge is trying to also power the heater element. I
> understand wanting the extra safety of connecting the heater's core
> after the main contactor...you can still do it. Keep reading.....
>
> >The relay only lasted for a few cycles and failed closed as you suggested
> >it would.
> >
> >
>
> I'm not surprised by this.
>
> >I am wondering why it failed.
> >
>
> The solid state switchers of the relay are rated to go to zero potential
> 60 times a second on an AC line, and are not rated for pure DC. There's
> also a large spike on turn-off due to wiring reactance sometimes that
> could also be playing havoc with your solid state relay.
>
> >I'm about to solve the problem with an old 2-pole knife switch, turning
> >on the blower and the element with one switch- but apparently I will have
> >to remember to leave it off when starting up the controller.
> >
> >
> >
> I've posted many times in the past, about the way I control my ceramic
> elements, with not a single failure...ever! Use a small Potter/Brumfield
> relay with a built in magnetic blow-out inside, model KUEP-3D15-12, 12V
> coil. It also has the number KUE-90005 on it as well. It's about 1 x 2
> inches and about $12-$15 depending on who you buy it from, and though
> rated for 10 amps @ 150V DC, it can easily handle 192V and a ceramic
> element without any problems. This little relay has a clear cover, so
> you can watch it's contacts open under a 192V / ceramic element load in
> a darkened room and see how effectively the permanent magnet (glued
> between the contact tips) extinguishes the arc. To add safety to the
> setup, I also use a .1 mfd 630V snubber cap across the contact terminals
> as well. This system is far cheaper, more compact, and pretty much
> arc-less when compared to that big open frame Frankenstein type relay
> and all its peripheral snubbers needed, that others use.
>
> Wire this small relay's coil so that it's power-on switch goes to at
> +12V (through the heater blower circuit so the element can only be 'on'
> while the fan is blowing) while the other coil lead gets its -12V juice
> off the main contactor coil's -12V terminal, as toggled from the
> controller's precharge sense circuitry. You can leave your element's
> positive feed lead (through this little relay's contact set) connected
> after the main contactor to HV B+ the way you currently have it for that
> added safety thing.
>
> This setup allows the controller to precharge without the extra drain of
> the element, then when the contactor is told to close (by the
> controller), at the same time the heater relay gets the same -12V signal
> to close, too.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
> John wrote:
> Snip-a-bit> You mentioned that you had read my posts, thanks. If you had
read some
> more (I know, there's a lot of them) you would have found that these
> relays easily exceed their modest 10 amp ratings. For example, I used
> two of these relays in Red Beastie, a 120V machine. I had one
> KUEP-3D15-12 relay for each of the two elements that truck had, and
> though the current exceeded the contact ratings, there never were any
> contact problems in the three and a half years I had the truck.
> Subsequently, the truck was sold to East Coast EVer Tony Ascrizzi who
> drove the truck through six years of c-c-cold Mass. winters, and he
> too, never had a single contact failure with the relays, so that 10 amp
> current rating, as I said, is conservative. Both relays worked
> flawlessly for 8 and 9 years respectively (I had a single element from
> '97-'98, then added the second element and relay in '98.).The only thing
> that finally did do both of them in, was the terrible demise of Red
> Beastie earlier this year in that freak flying dump truck accident that
> flattened the Beastie, then burnt the famous electric truck to a crisp :-(
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
> Hi John an' EVerybody; I always look for and read yur posts!
The Red beastie demise? Well stated. Tony an' I decided to try and
salvage the motor, tranny setup youse guys built for it. Tony har rented(on
his own nickle) a Bobcat loader to start to clean up the backyard carnage, a
few weaks after the disaster. I went up to Worst -er with my famous Ford
Brown van with a torch outfit aboard, jacks and other demolition tools. We
dragged the dead Beastie out of the wreckage, and rolled it over on the
starboard side, to see what we could salvage. Actually, in looking back I
shouldsa cut the burnt body off, and trailered home the chassis? Sigh, never
thought of that.But the motor and tranny turned and the motor was scorched,
but looked good inside dispite the brush cover strip burnt off!Quickist way
to get the motor-tranny? Torch away the torsion bars and crossmember, I felt
I heard John grown as I burnt away anything in the way, EVen the driveshaft.
Tony put the Bobcat bucket under the motor tranny and it just rolled out and
away! Loaded it in the van, to take home for safekeeping.The rest of the
wreck? We dropped it back on what was left of the wheels, hitched it up to
the Bobcatt and dragged it out to the street, for the Wooster DPW to collect
as they still drag in abandoned cars. Hell! It is MONEY , nowadaze for them!
Think of 100 bux a ton, for steel/iron?We salveged the Red Beastie tailgate,
for you, John! I was gunna bring it out to Woodburn(PIR) for ya, but other
stuff interveined, Grand kid born around Race Weakend. Glad ya asked, he's
growing like crazy! Got motors an' Wheels set aside for a go kart when he
gets a tad older!Electric? Well, how did ya guess?Gotta start them off
right!
Back to the story; The RB motor and tranny lived in my van for awile. It
is so GODAMN HEAVY that I just left it there, Til I could sucker somebody to
help me unbload it! After all what are 20 something kids good for,
anyhow?Made a parts run to my friendly junk yard, showed Jimmy the motor
tranny and asked him if he could put a truck around it? A Toyota? John what
YEAR and Model WAS the Beastie?Yeah! Right. Trucks all come with
Rust_O_Matic, standard, sold here in the Least Coast. Any older Jap truck is
usualy mulch, if it is much over 10 years old. Struck out. But in passing I
asked him if he had any dead or alive CAR bodies, 5 speed trannies, for a
glider? He DID, showed me a newer clean Datsun, well, Nissan, Sentra, No
rot, engine or gas tank! I'll take it! I sez, bring the clutch an' pressure
plate, flywheel, shitcan the engine and gas tank. He did, and delivered it
on a nice flatbed rig,right to my garage, all for 500 bux, not bad for a
clear title clean '97 body. Got started with the adapter and coupling, made
it up and when I get the remedial machining done. Had a 50-50 chance of
getting the SIDE right, when cutting the locating hole for the 9" motor.
Just have to flop over the aluminum plate. You forget about these surprises
when it is chucked up in the Bridgeport!Been making several runs to the
Machinist Shop of late. Same guy that I walked in with my EV stuff and he
was working on a Stanley Steamer Boiler thing! I just KNEW I was in the
right place!He spun me a new pully for the Jetta power steering, which could
be used with an American V belt. Gunna wrap a belt around the vacuum pump
AND the PS pump, all in one fall swoop, drivin' off the motor pulley in
place on the Rabbit that ran the Vacuum pump all those years.Then get the
Godam VW Shifting linkage to shift right. For all you older VW fans, think
splined shifter shaft, get it one gnat's hair off and you have a hellova
time shifting it? Tony Ascrizzi? Where are ya NOW? Tomy could adjust them
just great! Tony has bought a house in Rapid City South? Dekota, ONE of the
Dekotas, and probably is in transit there. He has been waiting to collect
some money from the parties responsible for the Dump Truck Disaster, that
wiped out his shop/garage.He has had enough of the Worst-er, non- help. The
house will join thousands of abandoned houses there. I guess the city will
own it at tax time as the taxes are based on what they THINK it is worth?
Not the ghetto reality.I mean, instead of HELPING him hook up the
electricity, they, the city, wanted the 100 year old house wired up to CODE
before reconnecting! Whatthehell, house had lived just fine with the
Ascrizzi Upgrades. House still haz the old GAS light fixtures and fittings,
Hook up the Gas? No way, they cut THAT off, too!At last report the water was
still on? An oversight! city will run out and shut it off , quick as a
flash,after they read this! Can you say Beurocracy, Say it ,as I can't spel
it!I suggested to Worster that they COULD send over a Bob Cat , dump
truck(with Brakes)A crew with shovels, to dig him out so you could even GET
in the back door of the house. It woulda taken the DPW, or what ever they
call them, maybe a busy mourning to remove THEIR dirt from HIS premises.I
may as well have asked for the Nimh Patents from Chevron, or GM to restart
the EV-1 line! I sez to Tony, "Just take the dirt with the loader, and DUMP
in the street, Worst-er would HAVE to cart it away?" Nah! I better not?They
could and probably fine him for littering. He needs Dewey, Cheetem and Howe,
legal group that the Tappet Bros Click and Clack of "Car Talk" fame, mention
all the time. What? You don't listen to them on PBS? Look at all the Boston
Culture yur missing!
Anyhow, back to heater relays. I had a simple crapaciter setup on mine,
worked MOST of the time. Gunna take John's relay advice, go with one of
those? I like Storm's Sure- Fire, knife switch. Well, I din't mean Fire,
mean that it will work, as John's Scram switch in the Zombie, a close cuzzin
to a knife switch, works great. A polished copper knife switch on the dash
would look cool anyhow. Bigger the better!
Seeya?
Bob
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/565 - Release Date: 12/2/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sunday, December 3, 2006, at 07:25 PM, John Wayland wrote:
John wrote:
In that post and this one you refer to system voltages 150v and
higher.
With a lower system voltage (144 v for example) it seems the 10 amp
limit of the relay is approached or exceeded with a 1500 watt
element. I went with the "frankenstein type" because it has a higher
rated current limit.
OK, understood.
Is this an overly simplified or otherwise flawed line of thinking?
You're correct from a strictly technical aspect, that the current
would be a bit too high for this nifty little relay.
You mentioned that you had read my posts, thanks. If you had read some
more (I know, there's a lot of them) you would have found that these
relays easily exceed their modest 10 amp ratings.
<snip>
I read em all, it's the remembering part I have a problem with.
For example, I used two of these relays in Red Beastie, a 120V
machine. I had one KUEP-3D15-12 relay for each of the two elements
that truck had, and though the current exceeded the contact ratings,
there never were any contact problems in the three and a half years I
had the truck.
See Ya.....John Wayland
Hopefully this can help someone else, or me in the future if I manage
to break the one I have.
Thanks,
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did a search after Steve Clunn posted about his 912. Lawrence Rhodes.....
Warning: Some concours and preservation enthusiasts may find this section
disturbing and should proceed directly to the next section. Over the
years privateers have created aesthetic and mechanical variations of the
912. Maybe you'd like a 912 speedster. Or with new fenders and winged
engine lid, 912s can look like the the slant-nose or 930 Turbo®. Some have
chopped the top. Some have removed the 912 Targa® roll bar and added the
Cabriolet top. At least one 912 dragster exists. Owners have modified the
engine with aftermarket big-bore 1750 cc pistons and cylinders, special
crankshafts, updated ignition equipment, different carburetion, extra oil
coolers, turbo and exhaust systems resulting in significant horsepower
boosts. Mechanical swaps have included replacing the factory 1.6L engine
with 911, 914, turbo, rotary, and even small-block Chevy V8 engines. A
one-of-a-kind 912R racecar exists, a 912 with twin-plug motor exists, and
one 912E has a engine so modified you could call it a 912S. A 912 was
transformed into a 993 racecar, eventually winning against turbocharged
competitors in the 1999 Tribute to Le Mans. The latest sign of the times?
A "912EV", an electric motor powered 912, with batteries in place of the
fuel tank and also in the former engine / now motor bay.
http://www.912registry.org/history.htm#Polizei
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Storm;
I had my heater hooked up in FRONT of the controller, I mean it was
directly hooked to the poz and neg of the 120 volt battery, a small
Waylandsque type relay, to turn it on, it was wired so when the ignition was
on and the "Heat" switch, blower was turned on for the fan HAD to run when
the relay fed power to the Walmart, White Heater Ceramic , TWO heaters gave
their lives for this one.3rd one lives on, as my bathroom heater, still.It
kept me comfortable down to about 30 degrees. Crappy? Yeah, but it did
"Defrost" best of all. Wore gloves whan it was REALLY cold!It needed a
recirculate feature as it drew air from outdoors to heat, rather than "used"
air from inside.They are predicting snow tonite ,so get it fixed<g>!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: Heater (again)
> Thanks Paul. I'm not sure I understand why it happens, but anything that
triggers the trouble indication on the controller can't be good. It seems
strange that tapping the battery for the heater would have any effect other
than slightly lowering the voltage. It seems like all I have is a heater in
parallel with the controller. I will have to try connecting on the other
side of the contactor. If I get a different result, I will be even more
puzzled.
>
> Thanks again,
> storm
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Paul G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 6:38:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Heater (again)
>
> On Dec 3, 2006, at 6:10 AM, Storm Connors wrote:
>
> > I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic heater. 144v pack.
> > 250v DC relay. I picked up the DC at the positive input to the Raptor
> > 600 so that the heater would only operate when the contactor was on.
> > Seemed safer that way.
> >
> > If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights indicating a
> > miswiring apparently.
>
> Don't do that! The Raptor precharge circuit is trying to power the
> heater. The heater will draw too power meant for the Raptor capacitors
> and the system will fail to precharge (thus the failure lights.) This
> can also damage the precharge circuit in the Raptor, leading to
> terminal start up failure lights.
>
> Paul "neon" G.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/565 - Release Date: 12/2/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Roland. I can save messages for me, but someone looking for this info
in the future will have to rely on John noticing the question and answering it
yet again. A repository of such info would be real handy and save everyone a
lot of time repeating themselves. Many sites have a FAQ for this purpose. The
archives are not useful at all as far as I can tell.
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 8:40:59 PM
Subject: Re: Heater (again): How to save E-mail
Hello Storm,
To save this email or any email:
Click X to close out the E-mail you are reading.
Then right click the E mail in the subject line
A drop down menu will appear and click save.
Then just follow directions which you will name it.
A E-mail file will show up on the left side of the E-mail page which you can
click at any time to bring it up.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
> Thanks John. Now I see what I was missing when Paul tried to explain it.
> The contactor is still open when all this is happening. It isn't the
> parallel connection I thought it was. Send me a dope slap!
>
> I will go looking for the relay and hook it up as you suggest.
>
> Too bad this oft repeated message of yours couldn't be put somewhere
> accessible. Finding such things in the archives is nearly impossible.
>
> Thanks again,
> storm
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 1:40:19 PM
> Subject: Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
>
> Hello to Storm and All,
>
> Storm Connors wrote:
>
> >I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic heater.
> >
>
> Bad Idea.
>
> >I picked up the DC at the positive input to the Raptor 600 so that the
> >heater would only operate when the contactor was on. Seemed safer that
> >way.
> >If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights indicating a
> >miswiring apparently.
> >
> >
>
> This is a common mistake many do. By supplying the heater's B+ off the
> same terminal or same the same NO side of the contactor that feeds the
> controller's B+ input, if the element is turned on, it saps away the
> precharge current the controller is looking for before it can power up
> and close the contactor. Instead of charging up the caps inside the
> controller, the precharge is trying to also power the heater element. I
> understand wanting the extra safety of connecting the heater's core
> after the main contactor...you can still do it. Keep reading.....
>
> >The relay only lasted for a few cycles and failed closed as you suggested
> >it would.
> >
> >
>
> I'm not surprised by this.
>
> >I am wondering why it failed.
> >
>
> The solid state switchers of the relay are rated to go to zero potential
> 60 times a second on an AC line, and are not rated for pure DC. There's
> also a large spike on turn-off due to wiring reactance sometimes that
> could also be playing havoc with your solid state relay.
>
> >I'm about to solve the problem with an old 2-pole knife switch, turning
> >on the blower and the element with one switch- but apparently I will have
> >to remember to leave it off when starting up the controller.
> >
> >
> >
> I've posted many times in the past, about the way I control my ceramic
> elements, with not a single failure...ever! Use a small Potter/Brumfield
> relay with a built in magnetic blow-out inside, model KUEP-3D15-12, 12V
> coil. It also has the number KUE-90005 on it as well. It's about 1 x 2
> inches and about $12-$15 depending on who you buy it from, and though
> rated for 10 amps @ 150V DC, it can easily handle 192V and a ceramic
> element without any problems. This little relay has a clear cover, so
> you can watch it's contacts open under a 192V / ceramic element load in
> a darkened room and see how effectively the permanent magnet (glued
> between the contact tips) extinguishes the arc. To add safety to the
> setup, I also use a .1 mfd 630V snubber cap across the contact terminals
> as well. This system is far cheaper, more compact, and pretty much
> arc-less when compared to that big open frame Frankenstein type relay
> and all its peripheral snubbers needed, that others use.
>
> Wire this small relay's coil so that it's power-on switch goes to at
> +12V (through the heater blower circuit so the element can only be 'on'
> while the fan is blowing) while the other coil lead gets its -12V juice
> off the main contactor coil's -12V terminal, as toggled from the
> controller's precharge sense circuitry. You can leave your element's
> positive feed lead (through this little relay's contact set) connected
> after the main contactor to HV B+ the way you currently have it for that
> added safety thing.
>
> This setup allows the controller to precharge without the extra drain of
> the element, then when the contactor is told to close (by the
> controller), at the same time the heater relay gets the same -12V signal
> to close, too.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
Is Xantrex dropping the Link 10? We have a local EVer who was
planning on installing one in his EV and it seems like all the EV
suppliers are dropping them from their catalogs and price
sheets. Who still has them? We have a guy that could use one and
the matching prescaler and DC/DC in the Kansas City area.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(More GM lies? : 'GM believes EVs are the future')
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061107/FREE/61106014/1024/STATIC
New Step, Same Direction
No way GM will kill the electric car says Lutz
By JAMIE LAREAU | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS
AutoWeek | Published 11/06/06, 12:37 pm et
DETROIT -- General Motors CEO Rick Wagoner will reveal a new step
in GM's alternative-fuel vehicle programs at the Los Angeles auto
show this month.
While not saying which direction GM will take, Vice Chairman Bob
Lutz says GM executives believe electric vehicles are the future.
GM's work on fuel cell vehicles may first bear fruit as a "series
hybrid" vehicle, he says.
A series hybrid could run primarily on electricity from
lithium-ion batteries, with an engine as backup to replenish
batteries, Lutz says. The backup engine could be a diesel or
gasoline internal combustion engine. Backup energy also could
come from a fuel cell.
"Tom Stephens (group vice president of GM Powertrain), Rick
Wagoner and I believe in the ultimate electrification of the
automobile," Lutz said in an interview with Automotive News. "We
believe that's where it's going."
Such a vehicle would require "a much smaller fuel cell stack"
than a vehicle in which the fuel cell powers an electric engine,
Lutz said. It would be less complex than a parallel hybrid
system, which constantly shifts between an electric and gasoline
engine to power a vehicle.
Lutz said lithium-ion batteries must be improved to hold a bigger
charge and deliver the charge gradually. Lutz believes there will
be rapid battery development over the next three to four years
that will provide more energy storage.
But, he said, for GM, "what started as a fuel cell project is now
an electric vehicle project."
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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EVLN(Phoenix Motorcars' solid market response)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20061107005071&newsLang=en
Phoenix Motorcars Takes SEMA Show by Storm 2006 SEMA Show
ONTARIO, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Phoenix Motorcars, exhibiting
their new zero emission, all-electric, freeway-ready sports
utility truck, received substantial media attention at the SEMA
show last week. SEMA is the Specialty Equipment Market
Association (www.sema.org) show attended by over 200,000
automobile industry buyers.
Phoenix Motorcars introduced a zero emission, all-electric sport
utility truck, which is powered by a revolutionary Altairnano
NanoSafe battery pack, and the truck targets the
fleet vehicle owner market. The Phoenix Motorcars sport utility
truck exceeds all specifications for a Type III ZEV, having a
driving range of 130 miles, it can be recharged in less than 10
minutes and the battery pack has a life of 12 years or more.
Surprisingly, the cost to recharge the battery pack is less than
$3.00!!
The Phoenix Motorcars zero emission, all-electric sport utility
truck can cruise on the freeway at up to 95 mph while carrying 5
passengers and a full payload. The Phoenix Motorcars Sport
Utility Truck has a low cost maintenance schedule and will be
introduced in early 2007. The Phoenix Motorcars SUV will be
introduced in late 2007 with two configurations, having a range
of either 130 or 250 miles and both configurations can be
recharged in less than 10 minutes.
Phoenix Motorcars is receiving a solid market response with over
600 expressions of interest from fleet vehicle owners and great
press coverage with over 50 media briefings conducted in the past
week, including two press conferences held by the actor and
environmental activist Ed Begley Jr. An excellent media story was
a lead article on the Popular Mechanics website at:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4201003.html
The Phoenix Motorcars Sport Utility Trucks and Vehicles astound
people because these vehicles are full sized vehicles which carry
five people at freeway speeds, unlike the public perception of an
electric vehicle which is a golf cart sized, low speed, two
passenger vehicle. There is tremendous pent up demand for a real
zero emission, all-electric vehicle and we are well positioned to
satisfy this market demand, comments Phoenix Motorcars CEO Dan
Elliott.
Phoenix Motorcars will introduce our Sport Utility Truck for the
Fleet Vehicle Market in early 2007 and plan to produce at least
500 zero emission, all electric trucks in 2007. The SUV will be
introduced in late 2007. Vehicle orders are being taken for the
Phoenix SUT now for delivery in early 2007 and for the SUV for
delivery in late 2007, at affordable pricing.
ABOUT PHOENIX MOTORCARS, INC.
Phoenix Motorcars Inc., headquartered in Ontario, California, has
been an industry leader in the development of battery electric
freeway speed vehicles since 2001. The mission of Phoenix
Motorcars is to manufacture zero emission vehicles including
Sport Utility Trucks and Sport Utility Vehicles to reduce the
toxic emissions from the largest contributor to air pollution,
personal automobiles. For additional information visit:
www.phoenixmotorcars.com .
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
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EVLN(Havraneks VW Beetle EV, the Internet made it easy)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.rblandmark.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=1959&TM=82987.3
11/7/2006 10:00:00 PM
Brookfield resident Dana Havraneks car has an MPG of infinity.
All it took was 800 hours of work and a used Volkswagen
Photo by Mark Rice Photo courtesy of Dana Havranek
Battery-powered: Under the hood of Dana Havraneks VW Beetle is
no longer a gas-powered engine, but an electric motor, powered by
18 golf cart batteries. Plug-in wheels By JOHN RICE
How would you like a car that runs almost silently and doesn't
need oil changes? Oh yeah, and it doesn't use gas. Well, if you
had engineering skill, a used Volkswagen and about 800 hours on
your hands, you could do what Dana Havranek did. The Brookfield
resident removed the internal combustion engine from a 1998 New
Beetle and replaced it with an electric motor.
Havranek uses his silver Beetle to commute to his civil
engineering job at the Illinois Tollway offices in Downers Grove.
Although his contraption has a top speed of 60 mph and a cruising
range of 60 miles, Havranek describes his car as "not ready for
prime time. It has too many limitations."
An electric car may sound futuristic but the concept originated
100 years ago, at the birth of the automobile. "Electric cars
pre-dated internal combustion cars," Havranek explained.
The genesis of Havranek's creation also goes back quite a few
years, to the gas crisis in the 1970s.
"I was taking auto shop at Morton West," Havranek recalled. "When
our teacher, Mr. Reynolds, showed us a car could be powered by a
war surplus aircraft generator."
Havranek was intrigued, because he literally couldn't find gas
for his 1966 Mustang. Fuel was scarce and long lines clogged gas
stations.
In 1979, while working as a mechanic for a school bus company,
Havranek became reacquainted with electric-powered cars, when he
entered an alternator shop in Cicero.
"The owner had a car he built from a kit and put batteries and an
electric motor in it," Havranek said. "He took me for a ride and
I never forgot it."
At the time, the controllers for electric motors were unreliable,
and Havranek didn't have time to build his own electric car. But
he always remembered that quiet ride through the streets of
Cicero.
After he obtained his civil engineering degree from the
University of Illinois at Chicago, Havranek went to work for the
tollway. He relocates utilities for road projects and helped
develop the I-Pass system. After 20 years on the job, Havranek
noticed that the technology for electric cars had greatly
improved. In April 2005, his electric-power project began. Unlike
the shop owner in Cicero, Havranek didn't use a kit.
After he purchased his Beetle, Havranek removed the engine and
sold it to "a guy in Indiana." The Internet not only made it easy
to unload an engine, it also made it simple for Havranek to
purchase parts for the new motor. So began a yearlong labor of
love. It took Havranek 800 hours to install the electric
components and get the car running. Finally, on July 6, 2006,
Havranek took it for its first spin.
The car is equipped with 18 golf cart batteries-12 in back and
six in front. The batteries are so heavy that the car is back to
its original gross weight. There is one big switch to turn the
car on and a smaller switch to activate the power steering. In
place of a gas gauge, the driver keeps his eye on a volt gauge.
The Beetle is a stick shift, but the driver doesn't depress the
clutch to shift gears. Havranek simply starts it in second gear
and shifts to third when he reaches 40 mph. The car does have a
few quirks.
"It's had a lobotomy," Havranek joked, "so the check engine
buzzer goes off every time, warning that there's no engine."
The car is sensitive to weather and road conditions.
"When it gets cold, it shrinks the car's driving range," Havranek
explained. "It also doesn't like a lot of stops and starts and
uphill grades. It runs best in 80-degree weather, on a smooth,
flat road with no stop signs."
The car definitely drives differently than a gas-powered car.
"It doesn't have kick-in-the-butt pickup," Havranek said with
typical understatement.
In fact, the car performs best when driven slowly and smoothly.
"I don't race up to red lights," Havranek said, "The power goes
down too quickly."
Havranek uses the Beetle for his 13-mile commute, whooshing
silently down the expressway at 60.
"I drive it whenever I can, because it's cheap to drive. It costs
about one-third of a gas car," he said.
Havranek has to remember to plug the car in at night, and he did
see a $10 jump in his electric bill. The killing expense,
however, is replacing the batteries every four years for $1,600.
The old lead-acid battery is the biggest obstacle to making
electric cars a cheap alternative to gas-powered.
"They're the same as car batteries," Havranek said. "They
deteriorate and die."
What did his family think of the project?
"Well, I got away with it," Havranek said. "Now there's a lot of
pressure to work on the house. My dog divorced me, but I didn't
get as much static as I expected."
His wife, Diane, drives the electric car occasionally, but his
daughter, Carly, is not only too young to drive, she wants no
part of it. The Beetle would actually be a perfect car for a
teenager. It can only carry one passenger, and it's almost
impossible to speed. But Carly, who's a freshman at
Riverside-Brookfield High School, wants a Hummer.
Havranek's motivation wasn't to build a car that has an MPG of
infinity.
"I built it for the mechanical challenge," he explained. "Not to
save the world."
Still, electric power shows promise in hybrid cars. In fact,
Havranek knows of a Toyota Prius that's been converted to a
plug-in.
Havranek hasn't forgotten Mr. Reynolds, that great auto shop
teacher who introduced him to electric powered vehicles. Havranek
is continuing Reynolds' legacy by showing his
not-ready-for-prime-time vehicle to auto shop students at RB.
Copyright 2006, Riverside Brookfield Landmark, 141 S. Oak Park
Ave., Oak Park, IL 60302, 708-442-6739 Software © 1998-2006 1up!
Software, All Rights Reserved
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
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EVLN(Uplift diesels to plug-in hybrids)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20061109005159&newsLang=en
Odyne Corp Awarded Municipal and Utility Projects
HAUPPAUGE, N.Y.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Odyne Corporation today
announced the receipt of two new orders. The customers, Keyspan
Energy Delivery Long Island and the Town of Oyster Bay, received
partial funding from the Greater Long Island Clean Cities
Coalition as part of its Round 7.1 Congestion Mitigation & Air
Quality (CMAQ) Program. The projects highlight the versatility
and adaptability of Odynes proprietary hybrid technology
propulsion system.
KeySpan Energy Delivery Long Island and the Town of Oyster Bay in
New York State will utilize Odynes fuel agnostic system for
somewhat different, yet vital applications. The use of the Odyne
system will reduce the fuel consumption and air pollution
associated with both of these applications.
The KeySpan project, the first of its kind in the region, will
take a heavy duty 33,000 lbs chassis diesel stake truck, and
upfit it to run on compressed natural gas (CNG), as a hybrid
electric vehicle. The upfit will consist of the installation of a
CNG engine, CNG fuel storage tanks in lieu of a liquid fuel tank,
and a hybrid electric propulsion system. Projected to displace
3,750 gallons of diesel fuel annually, the vehicle will have an
extremely clean burning engine, and provide a pathway for meeting
2010 USEPA emissions standards ahead of schedule. The vehicles
range will also increase by 20% as compared to a non-hybrid CNG
truck. Utilizing an inherently clean engine, and improving it via
the hybrid propulsion system, this vehicle can be considered
among the cleanest of clean fueled vehicles.
The second project funded under the Greater Long Island Clean
Cities program is for the installation of plug-in hybrid power
systems into three existing diesel-powered recycling trucks.
Syosset Truck Sales, Inc. will install the Odyne systems.
Utilizing hybrid technology to attain the goals of the recycling
program helps to further green the Town of Oyster Bay and
improves the environment by introducing innovative clean air
transportation improvements to the Towns fleet. The vehicles
will operate as part of the S.O.R.T. program, which performs
curbside pickup of recyclables such as paper, plastics, glass,
and metal wastes. The hybridization will involve removal of the
existing transmission, and installation of the Auxiliary Power
Unit, and a specialized battery pack and electric motor.
The project sponsors, KeySpan Energy Delivery Long Island and the
Town of Oyster Bay, are leaders in maintaining environmental
quality in the Long Island community, and it is expected that
with the addition of the hybrid vehicles to their respective
fleets, they will be among the national leaders utilizing
innovative fleet technologies.
About Odyne Corporation
Odyne Corporation is a clean technology company that develops and
manufactures propulsion systems for advanced Plug-in Hybrid
Electric Vehicles for medium and heavy-duty trucks and buses by
integrating its proprietary electric power conversion, electric
power control and energy storage systems with a range of
off-the-shelf components including electric motors and storage
batteries. Odynes Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle systems are
series configuration hybrids that offer customers significant
advantages when compared to the more familiar parallel
architecture found in hybrid passenger cars. Odynes
environmentally friendly and cost-effective Plug-in Hybrid
Electric Vehicle systems allow vehicles to operate at lower costs
and with lower vehicle emissions.
This news release contains certain forward-looking statements,
[...] Contacts Crescendo Communications, LLC David K. Waldman,
866-787-8619 [EMAIL PROTECTED] © Business Wire 2006
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
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