EV Digest 6191
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(For Sale: Returned G-Wiz in Somers Town, London)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(American Electric Vehicle Company's Kurrent Coupe EV)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Link-10/E-meter Availabity
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Heater (again): How to save E-mail
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EVLN(Nissan li-ion 125mi EV in 2010)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6)
by "George J. Jones, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) genetically-engineered blood protein can be used to split water into
oxygen and hydrogen.
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) better summary of genetically-engineered blood protein can be used
to split water into oxygen and hydrogen.
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) 250V DC 400A 2-pole breaker on EBay
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EV FAQs
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: EV FAQs
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Electric Scooters
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Many to thank
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV FAQs
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Direct Drive
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Geo Metros
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Direct Drive
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Direct Drive
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19)
by "Marty Escarcega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Introduction
by "Marty Escarcega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Direct Drive
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Direct Drive
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Direct Drive
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(For Sale: Returned G-Wiz in Somers Town, London)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/content/camden/hamhigh/news/story.aspx?brand=NorthLondon24&category=Newshamhigh&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newshamhigh&itemid=WeED24%20Nov%202006%2016%3A07%3A26%3A937
G-Wiz, what a waste of time a car you cant run
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 24 November 2006
A Somers Town driver has pulled the plug on Camden's green
credentials after being forced to give back an electric car she
won in a competition.
Angela Inglis from Goldington Street won the G-Wiz electric
vehicle in a raffle at a Bloomsbury festival last month.
But she had to return it because it is too difficult to run in
Camden.
The council, which uses a fleet of 16 electric cars, only offers
11 recharge points, all in the south of the borough, and doesn't
provide free parking - just a reduced-cost residents' permit.
Neighbouring Westminster offers free parking and three recharging
points.
"I feel really sad I can't use the car," said Ms Inglis, who has
asked the festival to sell the car on her behalf.
"Whenever I see anyone go past in one I wish I could have kept
it," she said. "Camden Council is meant to be encouraging people
to use these cars but it is not doing a good job. They have their
own fleet so they can shout about doing the right thing without
actually doing it.
"You need a drive so you can charge it overnight. Where I live
there is nowhere I can put it.
"It would be no good in the street as Camden doesn't provide free
parking like Westminster does.
"They have some electric vans which have their own area to be
charged - why are they not open to the public? If they are
helping employees use them why not us?"
The council has also recently been criticised for failing to
address air quality concerns in King's Cross and Kentish Town.
And its contractor Grosvenor Waste Management - one of the
companies which is sorting Camden's rubbish - is facing charges
of exporting illegal waste to China.
Green councillor Maya de Souza is campaigning for better
facilities for electric cars.
She said: "We have been told it is too costly. In our view Camden
should improve facilities and give free parking as other boroughs
have done. We also want, so far as possible, these facilities to
be run with renewable energy - that would be perfect. We would
like to see a clear commitment to this."
But BBC Newsnight's Justin Rowlatt, who is spending the year
living ethically in his Belsize Park home, questioned the
environmental value of electric cars.
He said: I am not a massive fan of electric cars. We took a G-Wiz
for a test drive. Its maximum speed is 40mph - you would be using
it for journeys you should be making with public transport. Why
not just get on a bus or bicycle?"
A council spokeswoman said: "We are currently reviewing our
policies relating to electric vehicles. We are looking into
trialling on-street charging facilities in the south of Camden.
But this is new technology and the pilot will need to be assessed
carefully to ensure we could make it work."
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copyright © 2006 Archant Regional. All rights reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(American Electric Vehicle Company's Kurrent Coupe EV)
http://blackbearspeaks.blogspot.com/2006/11/american-electric-vehicle-co.html
American Electric Vehicle Co. introduces the "Kurrent"
American Electric Vehicle Company in Ferndale, Michigan, will
soon begin selling an all-electric car dubbed the "Kurrent" for
$9,800 (with a $3,000 federal tax rebate). The car costs about
1-cent per mile to drive, compared to 14- to 16-cents per mile
for an SUV.
In this video, SpartanEdge.com Editor Alex "Cool Man" Scott
and cameraman Phil Moon take the test vehicle out for a spin
on the Michigan State University campus.
AEV President says he expects to hire 40 to 70 assembly
employees at the Ferndale plant by next Spring to produce
15,000 of the Italian designed electric vehicles.
Check out the video [ http://youtube.com/v/aufbQ7nw1AA ],
it's a cool little car.
[...]
# posted by Jerome Alicki @ 10:40 PM
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Have a burning question?
Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
Energy Outfitters can sell you the Link-10 and other components. There web
address is too long to type here, but you can get there by typing Xantrex
Link-10 E-meter in your search engine.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 8:46 PM
Subject: Link-10/E-meter Availabity
> Hi folks,
>
> Is Xantrex dropping the Link 10? We have a local EVer who was
> planning on installing one in his EV and it seems like all the EV
> suppliers are dropping them from their catalogs and price
> sheets. Who still has them? We have a guy that could use one and
> the matching prescaler and DC/DC in the Kansas City area.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is an FAQ at evparts.com, albeit a little out of date it still has
**lots** of useful information.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Storm Connors
Sent: December 3, 2006 6:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Heater (again): How to save E-mail
Thanks, Roland. I can save messages for me, but someone looking for this
info in the future will have to rely on John noticing the question and
answering it yet again. A repository of such info would be real handy and
save everyone a lot of time repeating themselves. Many sites have a FAQ for
this purpose. The archives are not useful at all as far as I can tell.
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 8:40:59 PM
Subject: Re: Heater (again): How to save E-mail
Hello Storm,
To save this email or any email:
Click X to close out the E-mail you are reading.
Then right click the E mail in the subject line
A drop down menu will appear and click save.
Then just follow directions which you will name it.
A E-mail file will show up on the left side of the E-mail page which you can
click at any time to bring it up.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
> Thanks John. Now I see what I was missing when Paul tried to explain it.
> The contactor is still open when all this is happening. It isn't the
> parallel connection I thought it was. Send me a dope slap!
>
> I will go looking for the relay and hook it up as you suggest.
>
> Too bad this oft repeated message of yours couldn't be put somewhere
> accessible. Finding such things in the archives is nearly impossible.
>
> Thanks again,
> storm
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 1:40:19 PM
> Subject: Re: ***DHSPAM*** Heater (again)
>
> Hello to Storm and All,
>
> Storm Connors wrote:
>
> >I decided to try a solid state relay for my ceramic heater.
> >
>
> Bad Idea.
>
> >I picked up the DC at the positive input to the Raptor 600 so that the
> >heater would only operate when the contactor was on. Seemed safer that
> >way.
> >If the heater is on, the Raptor lights up its lights indicating a
> >miswiring apparently.
> >
> >
>
> This is a common mistake many do. By supplying the heater's B+ off the
> same terminal or same the same NO side of the contactor that feeds the
> controller's B+ input, if the element is turned on, it saps away the
> precharge current the controller is looking for before it can power up
> and close the contactor. Instead of charging up the caps inside the
> controller, the precharge is trying to also power the heater element. I
> understand wanting the extra safety of connecting the heater's core
> after the main contactor...you can still do it. Keep reading.....
>
> >The relay only lasted for a few cycles and failed closed as you suggested
> >it would.
> >
> >
>
> I'm not surprised by this.
>
> >I am wondering why it failed.
> >
>
> The solid state switchers of the relay are rated to go to zero potential
> 60 times a second on an AC line, and are not rated for pure DC. There's
> also a large spike on turn-off due to wiring reactance sometimes that
> could also be playing havoc with your solid state relay.
>
> >I'm about to solve the problem with an old 2-pole knife switch, turning
> >on the blower and the element with one switch- but apparently I will have
> >to remember to leave it off when starting up the controller.
> >
> >
> >
> I've posted many times in the past, about the way I control my ceramic
> elements, with not a single failure...ever! Use a small Potter/Brumfield
> relay with a built in magnetic blow-out inside, model KUEP-3D15-12, 12V
> coil. It also has the number KUE-90005 on it as well. It's about 1 x 2
> inches and about $12-$15 depending on who you buy it from, and though
> rated for 10 amps @ 150V DC, it can easily handle 192V and a ceramic
> element without any problems. This little relay has a clear cover, so
> you can watch it's contacts open under a 192V / ceramic element load in
> a darkened room and see how effectively the permanent magnet (glued
> between the contact tips) extinguishes the arc. To add safety to the
> setup, I also use a .1 mfd 630V snubber cap across the contact terminals
> as well. This system is far cheaper, more compact, and pretty much
> arc-less when compared to that big open frame Frankenstein type relay
> and all its peripheral snubbers needed, that others use.
>
> Wire this small relay's coil so that it's power-on switch goes to at
> +12V (through the heater blower circuit so the element can only be 'on'
> while the fan is blowing) while the other coil lead gets its -12V juice
> off the main contactor coil's -12V terminal, as toggled from the
> controller's precharge sense circuitry. You can leave your element's
> positive feed lead (through this little relay's contact set) connected
> after the main contactor to HV B+ the way you currently have it for that
> added safety thing.
>
> This setup allows the controller to precharge without the extra drain of
> the element, then when the contactor is told to close (by the
> controller), at the same time the heater relay gets the same -12V signal
> to close, too.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Color me unimpressed. The Nissan Altra could do 140
mi, and also used Sony's Li batts. Have they
forgotten what they already did?!
Ummm, for lack of a better response... "Duuuuuuhhhhh!"
peace,
--- bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> EVLN(Nissan li-ion 125mi EV in 2010)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public
> EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for
> reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
>
http://www.resourceinvestor.com/pebble.asp?relid=26527
> Nissan plans to sell electric car within three
> years...
> By Karl Heilman 27 Nov 2006 at 11:34 AM
>
> The Nihon Keizai (Nikkei) business daily reported on
> Sunday that
> Nissan intends to develop and begin selling
> subcompact electric
> cars, which will be powered by self-developed
> lithium-ion
> batteries in approximately three years.
>
> Japan's number two automaker also said it plans to
> develop and
> sell hybrids by 2010 in an attempt to catch up with
> Honda [...].
>
> ===
>
>
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117701
> Report: Nissan To Start Selling 125-Mile-Range
> Electric Car by 2010
> Date posted: 11-28-2006
>
> TOKYO Nissan plans to develop and start selling a
> subcompact
> electric car in three years that will be able to
> travel 125 miles
> per charge.
>
> That's about twice the range of the company's 2000
> prototype
> electric vehicle, according to the Nihon Keizai
> Shimbun
> newspaper.
>
> The Japanese automaker also plans to develop and
> sell
> gas-electric hybrids by 2010 in an attempt to catch
> up with Honda
> and Toyota. [...]
> -
>
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at
> www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Have a burning question?
Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
set ev mail digest
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
if it pans out this would be a huge breakthrough
http://science.slashdot.org/science/06/12/01/2127259.shtml
Blood Protein Used to Split Water
Posted by Zonk on Friday December 01, @04:53PM
from the what-else-are-you-going-to-use-it-for dept.
Biotech Power Science
brian0918 writes "The Imperial College in London is reporting that
genetically-engineered blood protein can be used to split water into
oxygen and hydrogen. The abstract can be viewed for free from the
Journal of the American Chemical Society." From the article: "Scientists
have combined two molecules that occur naturally in blood to engineer a
molecular complex that uses solar energy to split water into hydrogen
and oxygen. This molecular complex can use energy from the sun to create
hydrogen gas, providing an alternative to electrolysis, the method
typically used to split water into its constituent parts. The
breakthrough may pave the way for the development of novel ways of
creating hydrogen gas for use as fuel in the fu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
better summary
http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/newssummary/news_1-12-2006-11-4-23?newsid=3016
Imperial College London News Release
For immediate release
Friday 1 December 2006
Scientists have combined two molecules that occur naturally in blood to
engineer a molecular complex that uses solar energy to split water into
hydrogen and oxygen, says research published today in the Journal of the
American Chemical Society.
This molecular complex can use energy from the sun to create hydrogen
gas, providing an alternative to electrolysis, the method typically used
to split water into its constituent parts. The breakthrough may pave the
way for the development of novel ways of creating hydrogen gas for use
as fuel in the future.
Professors Tsuchida and Komatsu from Waseda University, Japan, in
collaboration with Imperial College London, synthesised a large
molecular complex from albumin, a protein molecule that is found at high
levels in blood serum, and porphyrin, a molecule which is used to carry
oxygen around the body and gives blood its deep red colour. Porphyrin
molecules are normally found combined with metals, and in their natural
state in the blood they have an iron atom at their centre. The
scientists modified the porphyrin molecule to swap the iron for a zinc
atom in the middle, which completely changed the chemistry and
characteristics of the molecule.
This modified porphyrin molecule was then combined with albumin; with
the albumin molecule itself being modified by genetic engineering to
enhance the efficiency of the process. The resulting molecular complex
was proven to be sensitive to light, and can capture light energy in a
way that allows water molecules to be split into molecules of hydrogen
and oxygen.
Dr Stephen Curry Opens in new window, a structural biologist from
Imperial College London's Division of Cell and Molecular Biology who
participated in the research explains: "This work has shown that it is
possible to manipulate molecules and proteins that occur naturally in
the human body by changing one small detail of their make-up, such as
the type of metal at the heart of a porphyrin molecule, as we did in
this study.
"It's very exciting to prove that we can use these biological structures
as a conduit to harness solar energy to separate water out into hydrogen
and oxygen. In the long term, these synthetic molecules may provide a
more environmentally friendly way of producing hydrogen, which can be
used as a 'green' fuel."
For further information please contact:
Laura Gallagher
Imperial College London Press Office
Tel: +44 (0)20 759 46702
Mob: +44 (0)7803 886248
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Notes to Editors:
1. "Photosensitised reduction of water to hydrogen using human serum
albumin complexed with zinc protoporphyrin IX", Journal of the American
Chemical Society
Teruyuki Komatsu (1, 2), Rong-Min Wang (1, 3), Patricia A Zunszain (4),
Stephen Curry (4), Eishun Tsuchida (1).
(1) Advanced Research Institute for Science and Engineering, Waseda
University, 3-4-1 Okubo, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo 169-8555, Japan
(2) Japan Science and Technology Agency, 4-1-8 Honcho, Kawaguchi-shi,
Saitama 332-0012, Japan
(3) Gansu Key Laboratory of Polymer Materials, Northwest Normal
University, Lanzhou 730070, China
(4) Biophysics Section, Division of Cell and Molecular Biology, Faculty
of Natural Sciences, Imperial College London, South Kensington Campus,
London SW7 2AZ, UK
Published online at http://pubs.acs.org/journals/jacsat/
2. Consistently rated in the top three UK university institutions,
Imperial College London is a world leading science-based university
whose reputation for excellence in teaching and research attracts
students (11,500) and staff (6,000) of the highest international
quality. Innovative research at the College explores the interface
between science, medicine, engineering and management and delivers
practical solutions that enhance the quality of life and the environment
- underpinned by a dynamic enterprise culture.
Website: www.imperial.ac.uk
if it pans out this would be a huge breakthrough
http://science.slashdot.org/science/06/12/01/2127259.shtml
Blood Protein Used to Split Water
Posted by Zonk on Friday December 01, @04:53PM
from the what-else-are-you-going-to-use-it-for dept.
Biotech Power Science
brian0918 writes "The Imperial College in London is reporting that
genetically-engineered blood protein can be used to split water into
oxygen and hydrogen. The abstract can be viewed for free from the
Journal of the American Chemical Society." From the article: "Scientists
have combined two molecules that occur naturally in blood to engineer a
molecular complex that uses solar energy to split water into hydrogen
and oxygen. This molecular complex can use energy from the sun to create
hydrogen gas, providing an alternative to electrolysis, the method
typically used to split water into its constituent parts. The
breakthrough may pave the way for the development of novel ways of
creating hydrogen gas for use as fuel in the fu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All
A Westinghouse 250V DC 400A 2-pole breaker on EBay, $10US with day and a
half to go. Item 120058894851 located Penfield, New York, United States.
Might be an opportunity for a traction breaker cheap for someone.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I note that updates will come from members of the EV List. To whom should we
send material for inclusion?
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 10:13:33 PM
Subject: RE: Heater (again): How to save E-mail
There is an FAQ at evparts.com, albeit a little out of date it still has
**lots** of useful information.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out the main page to the FAQ, there is an admin contact.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Storm Connors
Sent: December 4, 2006 10:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: EV FAQs
I note that updates will come from members of the EV List. To whom should we
send material for inclusion?
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 10:13:33 PM
Subject: RE: Heater (again): How to save E-mail
There is an FAQ at evparts.com, albeit a little out of date it still has
**lots** of useful information.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Don't settle for those overpriced imitations.
See the original Segway here:
http://www.haihongco.com/pro.asp?id=81&clas=Electric%20Scooter
Note, Haihong says max.load capacity only 105lbs, where x-treme says
300lbs?
Just for fun while on the Haihong page, try a right click :)
I have to guess that Haihong has brought all their experience )in
making auto dispensing shoe covers) to bear in the design and
construction of their scoot...
Other exciting new EV product from Yong Kang:
This one is set to sweep the solar EV competitions:
http://chinabotao.en.alibaba.com/product/0/51194771/Solar_Cell_Sweeper.html
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/y46l2m
And this one should mow down any competition too:
http://zhongxing.en.alibaba.com/product/50066376/50088338/Garden_Tools_/Riding_Electric_Lawn_Mower.html
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/v5sf9
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian
--- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a brother in law with MS, and who broke his hip last year. So
> walking isn't his favorite activity any more...
> I'd love to get him a Segway, but that is definitely Out Of Budget.
> So, has anyone had any experiences with these:
> http://www.x-tremescooters.com/electric_scooters/xt300/xt300.html
> It's a segway knock-off - using 4 wheels.
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey That's what we are here for ....
madman
. After a
> couple of runs to wake the battery pack up my EV grin is back in face
> spltting mode.
>
> Many thanks to Rich Rudman, John Wayland, Jim Husted, and Don Crabtree You
> gentlemen make the EV community great.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Pat Sweeney
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That would be me. I serve as a volunteer 'editor' to compress and enter the
data into the FAQ. I used to get an email a day, then a month, and now it has
been many months since I got an email. I should say a LEGITIMATE email - a lot
of SPAM has been coming through the evparts.com link lately. I have asked them
to fix that, but no response yet.
If you have an update for the FAQ, send them to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be
checking my spam folder to make sure it doesn't accidentaly get put in there,
too.
Thanks.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2006 1:18:58 PM
Subject: EV FAQs
I note that updates will come from members of the EV List. To whom should we
send material for inclusion?
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 10:13:33 PM
Subject: RE: Heater (again): How to save E-mail
There is an FAQ at evparts.com, albeit a little out of date it still has
**lots** of useful information.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
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Jeff Shanab wrote:
> The two DC motors on the same controller you would of had
> before on just 1 motor (and a decent enough pack voltage
> to do this for a few thousand RPM) You will still get twice
> the torque off the line as with one motor.
So far so good...
> Obviously this goes to sleep pretty fast as the rpm's climb
> and a switch from series to parallel is called for. Where
> again you get twice the torque per amp you would of had with
> only one motor Up to the limit of the controller.
Nope; I believe you are being too optimistic here.
The switch to parallel is made so that more voltage may be applied to
each motor; otherwise the motors can see no more than 1/2 pack voltage.
There is *no* torque advantage to operating the motors in parallel vs
running a single motor, and indeed, there is actually a *loss*.
Problem is that unless you have so much current on tap that you can
saturate the motor(s) even at 1/2 the controller output (since in
parallel each motor sees 1/2 the total motor loop amps), then the torque
is proportional to current raised to a power somewhere between 1 and 2.
I think Rich Rudman has posted data showing a better than linear torque
to current relationship even out to currents in excess of 1000A.
Consider that if torque is proportional to amps^1.2 (which I believe is
right in the ballpark for 8" and 9" ADC motors) and you put 1000A
through each of a pair of paralleled motors, then your total torque is
proportional to 2*(1000^1.2) = 7962. If you put the same 2000A total
through *one* of the motors, the torque would be proportional to
2000^1.2 = 9146.
Counter-intuitively enough, this means the single motor would deliver
13% more torque than the parallel combination! (John are you listening?
I just found the 'Zombie 13% more HP for the last 1/2 of the run! ;^)
If the motors are stout enough and/or the demand brief enough (e.g. drag
racing), it might just be that the better arangement would be to start
in series mode and switch to a single motor rather than paralleled
motors.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
What kind of range and speed can you achieve with your Geo Metro? Bob
Batson is telling me that a Geo won't be able to achieve 40 mile range
at near highway speeds - is that your experience?
What voltage pack are you using? About how much weight in batteries?
Did you beef up your suspension?
Lawrence Lile
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joseph H. Strubhar
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Geo Metros
Yes - I have a '86 Metro that is clutchless
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:31 AM
Subject: RE: Geo Metros
> Apparently the clutchless idea has been discussed to death on this
> board, but all before my time. What's the short answer? Are people
> using clutchless designs successfully, commonly?
>
>
>
>
> Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
>
>
> P.S. There's a GEO Metro with a dead motor and an automatic tranny on
> EBAY right now for $100. It's in California.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Rich Long
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:16 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Geo Metros
>
> You might consider swapping a manual transmission for the automatic
and
> going with a clutchless design ala Bob Batson's at Electric Vehicles
of
> America.
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/560 - Release Date:
11/30/2006
3:41 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't forget the "power between 1 and 2" steadily changes from 2 at very low
currents to near 1 at high current. Suppose doubling the current from 1000 A to
2000A dropped it just slightly from 1.2 to 1.18.
2*(1000^1.2) = 7962
2000^1.18 = 7856 less torque
Now what would be fun is to get the curve (I couldn't find it at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com ) and see if one vs. two always gave less torque,
or it if depended on the current.
----- Original Message ----
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2006 3:40:59 PM
Subject: RE: Direct Drive
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> The two DC motors on the same controller you would of had
> before on just 1 motor (and a decent enough pack voltage
> to do this for a few thousand RPM) You will still get twice
> the torque off the line as with one motor.
So far so good...
> Obviously this goes to sleep pretty fast as the rpm's climb
> and a switch from series to parallel is called for. Where
> again you get twice the torque per amp you would of had with
> only one motor Up to the limit of the controller.
Nope; I believe you are being too optimistic here.
The switch to parallel is made so that more voltage may be applied to
each motor; otherwise the motors can see no more than 1/2 pack voltage.
There is *no* torque advantage to operating the motors in parallel vs
running a single motor, and indeed, there is actually a *loss*.
Problem is that unless you have so much current on tap that you can
saturate the motor(s) even at 1/2 the controller output (since in
parallel each motor sees 1/2 the total motor loop amps), then the torque
is proportional to current raised to a power somewhere between 1 and 2.
I think Rich Rudman has posted data showing a better than linear torque
to current relationship even out to currents in excess of 1000A.
Consider that if torque is proportional to amps^1.2 (which I believe is
right in the ballpark for 8" and 9" ADC motors) and you put 1000A
through each of a pair of paralleled motors, then your total torque is
proportional to 2*(1000^1.2) = 7962. If you put the same 2000A total
through *one* of the motors, the torque would be proportional to
2000^1.2 = 9146.
Counter-intuitively enough, this means the single motor would deliver
13% more torque than the parallel combination! (John are you listening?
I just found the 'Zombie 13% more HP for the last 1/2 of the run! ;^)
If the motors are stout enough and/or the demand brief enough (e.g. drag
racing), it might just be that the better arangement would be to start
in series mode and switch to a single motor rather than paralleled
motors.
Cheers,
Roger.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Have a burning question?
Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's also R*I^2 loss to consider.
With 2 identical motors, the resistive losses for the 2 cases would look
like:
1 motor, 2000A: Pres ~ 4*10^6 * Rmtr
2 motor, 1000A: Pres ~ 2*10^6 * Rmtr
I.E. twice the resistive loss in the single motor case.
And at these high currents, the resistive losses are likely VERY
substantial.
This resistive loss difference alone could easily make up for any
theoretical gain due to over-one series-field power factor. Add to this the
fireball risk on the brushes and commutator with 2x current, the single
motor approach may not look so good after all.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
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index EV
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Hi, my name is Marty, I live in Mesa, AZ. I just recently purchased a 1963
Westcoaster Mailster.
http://members.cox.net/escarcega-photos/Mailster/63mailster2.jpg
Specs on the little guy:
1100lbs
Onan 12.9hp 2 cylinder engine. Top speed about 40mph
3 Speed Manual transmission with reverse and clutch
Body is fiberglass
It was used by the post office in the 60's to deliver mail. When I laid my
eyes on it, I knew I had to have it. It would be a real head turner. Since
the engine was out and disassembled, I thought it would be great to convert
it to an electric car and use as a daily driver to and from work. My head is
spinning from all the information on the internet! (How I found you folks)
My capabilities are, machining (amateur, I have a lathe and mill at home).
Electrical work (I am an electrician by trade, I work for the City of Mesa
as a Traffic Signal technician) with some electronic background.
>From what I have read, its best to keep the transmission but use it without
a clutch?
Mesa, is FLAT no hills to speak of. My commute is about 10miles round trip
per day.
I would like to try and reasonably keep up with traffic, so 45mph would be
great.
I'd like to build a reliable electric car on a shoe string. I have been
offered that would put a 48volt system together:
1 controller - Sevcon - sep ex - 550 amp.
1 motor, Advanced DC - Sep Ex - Up to 12.8 hp.
1 24 volt contactor (the right one for the system)
1 pin wiring kit.
1 wire diagram
For $600, I thought it sounded like a really good deal, but am looking for
your input, thoughts and advice. I also need a charger.
I hope to document the entire process on my web page, though, I am in the
research mode now.
Thank you!
Marty
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Direct Drive
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 14:40:59 -0800
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> The two DC motors on the same controller you would of had
> before on just 1 motor (and a decent enough pack voltage
> to do this for a few thousand RPM) You will still get twice
> the torque off the line as with one motor.
So far so good...
> Obviously this goes to sleep pretty fast as the rpm's climb
> and a switch from series to parallel is called for. Where
> again you get twice the torque per amp you would of had with
> only one motor Up to the limit of the controller.
Nope; I believe you are being too optimistic here.
The switch to parallel is made so that more voltage may be applied to
each motor; otherwise the motors can see no more than 1/2 pack voltage.
There is *no* torque advantage to operating the motors in parallel vs
running a single motor, and indeed, there is actually a *loss*.
Problem is that unless you have so much current on tap that you can
saturate the motor(s) even at 1/2 the controller output (since in
parallel each motor sees 1/2 the total motor loop amps), then the torque
is proportional to current raised to a power somewhere between 1 and 2.
I think Rich Rudman has posted data showing a better than linear torque
to current relationship even out to currents in excess of 1000A.
Consider that if torque is proportional to amps^1.2 (which I believe is
right in the ballpark for 8" and 9" ADC motors) and you put 1000A
through each of a pair of paralleled motors, then your total torque is
proportional to 2*(1000^1.2) = 7962. If you put the same 2000A total
through *one* of the motors, the torque would be proportional to
2000^1.2 = 9146.
Counter-intuitively enough, this means the single motor would deliver
13% more torque than the parallel combination! (John are you listening?
Interesting way to look at it, but I don't think your conclusion is
necessarily true. As the current gets really high, you get magnetic
saturation and the torque does not even rise linearly with the current.
Also, with all of that current in a single motor, there would be a higher
risk of unplanned disassembly of the motor.
Phil
Phil
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--- End Message ---
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Phil Marino wrote:
> Interesting way to look at it, but I don't think your conclusion is
> necessarily true. As the current gets really high, you get magnetic
> saturation and the torque does not even rise linearly with
> the current.
This is false on two counts: first, no matter how deep into saturation
you push the motor, the *worst* a series motor gets is to the torque
increasing linearly with current, and secondly, if you look at the real
world data posted later in this thread, you will see that even for an
ADC8" at the maximum current that series/parallel capable controllers
(Z1K, Z2K) can deliver, the torque is still building better than
linearly even at 2000A.
> Also, with all of that current in a single motor, there would
> be a higher risk of unplanned disassembly of the motor.
Absolutely! As I've noted, the observation is made with *racers* in
mind, since these are the folks who would sufficiently value the extra
10-20% HP at speed that is potentially available to take these sorts of
risks.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to rush off and buy stock in Jim
Husted's motor shop ASAP! ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
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David Dymaxion wrote:
> Don't forget the "power between 1 and 2" steadily changes
> from 2 at very low currents to near 1 at high current.
> Suppose doubling the current from 1000 A to 2000A dropped it
> just slightly from 1.2 to 1.18.
>
> 2*(1000^1.2) = 7962
>
> 2000^1.18 = 7856 less torque
>
> Now what would be fun is to get the curve (I couldn't find it
> at http://www.manzanitamicro.com ) and see if one vs. two
> always gave less torque, or it if depended on the current.
I just looked through my archives and it was Otmar who provided the data
for his 8" ADC motors:
> Capope Data Car weight lb Ratio Tire R "
> 3155 3.75 10.93
> Friction is ignored in this and may be an issue.
> G force Amps One motor torque Notes:
> 0.04 250 15.326288889 Math: weight*A5*(TireR/12)/2/ratio
> 0.09 384 34.48415
> 0.13 489 49.810438889
> 0.28 793 107.28402222
> 0.4 1009 153.26288889
> 0.66 1479 252.88376667
> 0.72 1555 275.8732 Possible bad data, wheel slipped
In a follow-up post, Otmar provided data for higher current in 4th gear
(2.67 ratio):
0.68 1950 365.9366729 Note: ratio of 2.67 rather than 3.75
used.
He also noted that CaPope requires about 100A in 3rd and 150A in 4th
just to hold speed.
Plotting the torque calculated above vs current, one finds that a near
perfect curve fit is provided by:
Torque = 0.03 * (current - 100)^1.251
The important thing to note is that this curve fits almost perfectly at
both 1000A (150.75 predicted vs 153.26 observed) and 1950A (366.7
predicted vs 365.6 observed), so the change in the exponent between
1000A and 2000A for Otmar's 8" motors is very slight.
At any rate, notice that comparing the 1950 and 1009A points reveals
that slightly less than 2x the current results 2.39x the torque.
Likewise, comparing the 489 and 1009A points shows that slightly more
than 2x the current results in over 3x the torque.
This seems to suggest that if one is running a Z1K, they would likely
benefit even more by switching from series to single motor instead of
parallel. With a Z2K one is further up the curve such that the
difference is smaller (though still significant, since 2.39x the torque
vs 2x the torque of paralleled motors is still a 19.5% gain).
Myles Twete wrote:
> There's also R*I^2 loss to consider.
I think the real world data above illustrates that the R^2 losses do not
negate the benefits of running more current through a single motor.
> Add to this the fireball risk on the brushes and commutator
> with 2x current, the single motor approach may not look so
> good after all.
I certainly wouldn't suggest it to be a sensible approach for everyday
street use; if you've got the extra comm in the car anyway, you might as
well use it to spread the power around and improve reliability.
I think the biggest risk may be running 2x the current at the higher
motor voltages that would accompany the switch out of series mode. If
the pack is capable of hitting the motors with anything near (or over)
the magic 170V level, then running 2x the current through a single motor
might push it over the edge into fireball territory.
However, for racing, the possibility of getting another 10-20% from your
hardware is certainly worth taking some risk... ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
