EV Digest 6194
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Introduction
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Nicad resetting, questions,comments.
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Not me!! Re: Nicad resetting vs NiMH
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Regen with ADC motors
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Controller on Trolley Transit Buses
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Motor controllers with 4 connections
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Contingent replacement VisForVoltage forum
by "George J. Jones, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVLN(REVA's Australian Government woes)-long
by "Manu Sharma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Batteries
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electric Scooters
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Bradley GTE Assembly photos
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Controller on Trolley Transit Buses
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Introduction
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Regen with ADC motors
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Batteries
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Electric Scooters
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Controller on Trolley Transit Buses, an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Electric Scooters
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Regen with ADC motors
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Regen with ADC motors
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Valence Technologies - anybody hear their presentation at EDTA
by "Jessie Lubke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Controller on Trolley Transit Buses, an' Stuff
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Regenerative Cruising
by Jordan Crane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Regenerative Cruising
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Marty, unfortunately I am not familiar with the DC equipment - enough to
pass on advice anyways. Some times it takes a couple of days for the
mainstream EVers to catch up with the email notes, give it a few more days.
Don't hesitate to phone Electro Auto, or EVParts or CanEV. Sometimes these
guys get pretty busy and may not be monitoring the list all the time.
I think you might find a few people will give you grief about your choice of
a vehicle, but don't let it dissuade you, it looks like a cool little
vehicle. If you do an inexpensive conversion it would be a fun platform to
learn on.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Escarcega
Sent: December 5, 2006 6:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Introduction
Thanks Don, my understanding they did about 40mph.
I'm surprised I got no responses about what folks think about what I was
offered or what I should look for?
Is the Sevcon controller desireable? How about the motor? What else might I
need? Advice/comments/thoughts/help appreciated.
Marty
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Cameron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Introduction
Hi Marty, welcome to the list - it looks like an exciting project.
A good idea is to shop around a bit. Check out Electro Automotive and
EVParts.com they both have all you need and lots of experience on how you
can be successful on a shoestring budget.
I am curious - what was the original top speed of those vehicles with a gas
engine?
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Hi, my name is Marty, I live in Mesa, AZ. I just recently purchased a 1963
Westcoaster Mailster.
http://members.cox.net/escarcega-photos/Mailster/63mailster2.jpg
Specs on the little guy:
1100lbs
Onan 12.9hp 2 cylinder engine. Top speed about 40mph
3 Speed Manual transmission with reverse and clutch Body is fiberglass
It was used by the post office in the 60's to deliver mail. When I laid my
eyes on it, I knew I had to have it. It would be a real head turner. Since
the engine was out and disassembled, I thought it would be great to convert
it to an electric car and use as a daily driver to and from work. My head is
spinning from all the information on the internet! (How I found you folks)
My capabilities are, machining (amateur, I have a lathe and mill at home).
Electrical work (I am an electrician by trade, I work for the City of Mesa
as a Traffic Signal technician) with some electronic background.
>From what I have read, its best to keep the transmission but use it
without
a clutch?
Mesa, is FLAT no hills to speak of. My commute is about 10miles round trip
per day.
I would like to try and reasonably keep up with traffic, so 45mph would be
great.
I'd like to build a reliable electric car on a shoe string. I have been
offered that would put a 48volt system together:
1 controller - Sevcon - sep ex - 550 amp.
1 motor, Advanced DC - Sep Ex - Up to 12.8 hp.
1 24 volt contactor (the right one for the system)
1 pin wiring kit.
1 wire diagram
For $600, I thought it sounded like a really good deal, but am looking for
your input, thoughts and advice. I also need a charger.
I hope to document the entire process on my web page, though, I am in the
research mode now.
Thank you!
Marty
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, IIRC the electrolyte is not even changed by the discharge.
It's too bad. Otherwise I'd just carry a huge tank of KOH and pump it
through cells, and recover the used stuff for "recharging". But no, the
energy is in the solid plates. Too bad.
If a cell were constructed where the consumable part of the reaction can
be replaced as it is used, it is no longer a battery. At this point it
would fall under the definition of a fuel cell.
Danny
England Nathan-r25543 wrote:
Could a NiCad be recharged by replacing the electrolyte? I don't
plan on changing KOH this regular but could this be done?
Thanks,
Nate
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Jerry,
> You believe shorting the NiCad's shortens their life because
> running one to zero volts is bad or do you mean shorting the string can
> reverse one or more cells?
Running an individual cell to zero volts does NOT harm the cell, in fact
this is the recommended storage method (run cell to zero volts and store
it shorted).
Reversing a cell is bad for it. It's not as bad for NiCads as it is for
PbA batteries, but it is still bad for it and if done frequently will
shorten it's life.
Reversing a cell under high current is worse than low current, in fact it
can lead to catastrophic damage. Running it for long periods of time in
reverse is also worse than short periods.
When the pack is "out of ballance" it means that some cell aren't as
charged as others. When shorting a pack like this it is a given that some
cells will be depleted before others. This means that some cells will get
reversed if you short the pack.
The benefits of periodically bringing the cells zero volts is
questionable, and reversing a cell is at least slightly bad for it.
It seems to me that shorting the pack does more harm than good.
>
>
> I would still like to know what changes when a cell is reversed,
> can the BB600 be taken apart, cleaned and what ever damage repaired?
Just about anything can be fixed, but for many things it's not worth the
time, effort, and cost.
The BB600 is not designed to be disassembled and rebuilt.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nate
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of jerryd
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:26 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Not me!! Re: Nicad resetting vs NiMH
>
>
> Hi Edward, Mike and All,
> While your way Edward certainly works to discharge the batts
> well, I don't see the need for it at all unless there is an actual
> balance problem.
> I've used high power SAFT 14amphr batts for about 10 yrs that
> were used over 25 yrs when I got them, heavy use for 5 yrs commuting and
> never had to completely discharge them and except for badly overcharging
> accidentally several times, never had a problem and they stayed above
> rated power to this day.
> What they want is for them to be equalized. I rather equalize
> on the top of the charge than the bottom like you, Mike do and has
> worked well for me. I found equalizing only 1/week/5-7 cycles, easily
> keep the batts in line, actually getting more equal as they got used,
> without using much water. Many times I went a week on one charge, so
> only equalizing there 1/month, watering every 3 months!! If you want to
> equalize the bottom of the cycle, just discharge them by driving down to
> 1-2% charge, then recharge. After 10 cycles or so my ni-cads were
> completely equalized together, within a couple 1/100's of a volt. All I
> did was bring them up to full charge by charging until charged, removing
> it from the temp charging string while the others reached full charge.
> This was after they set for probably a couple yrs before I got them.
> They were used as UPS' in medical equipment, given to me free by a batt
> company that didn't want to ship them back to SAFT for recycling.
> Using an E meter or better, Lee's new EV Dash when it's
> ready, to put back about 90% charge most cycles, then 110% every 5-7
> cycles. This should easily keep your ni-cads in good shape, lowering
> watering needs, work, to give your batts a nice, long, happy life.
> As for why Ni-cads are done as the manual says is everything
> about aircraft is rather anal, and for good reason, towards safety. But
> this has little in common with using ni-cads for EV use. For instance,
> I'd bet the electrolyte change is to keep the bats from shorting out,
> ect during dogfights, ect, which can ruin your whole day!!
> As our ni-cads won't be inverted much, this isn't a problem.
> However, exposing the plates to O2 or worse, CO2 is not good either and
> known to shorten life.
> On my BB600's, I'll just check them all to make sure they are
> all 0 volts to start the commissioning charges, cycles to bring them up
> to spec and just equalize the top of the charge from there.
> While reversing a cell is not terminal, you lose capacity each
> time with a 20% reversal probably losing 10% cap each time based on
> doing it with my similar SAFTS over the yrs. Luckily ni-cads are usually
> higher cap than rated so the first one doesn't show up, but a couple and
> you can really have problems. Been there, done that.
> The less often you open the caps, the less CO2 will get in,
> turning into carbonate, I forget which kind, which is a white crystal
> mass that grows in the cells and if charged/ discharged right, this
> carbonate is the thing that will eventually kill a ni-cad, though with
> care, that will be over 50 yrs based on my, other's experience. Many
> 50-90 yr old ni-cads are still going strong at rated power!!
> With such a great battery available for less than AGM's, both
> new, I don't see why people chose AGM's over BB600's, other ni-cads or
> why one would want NiMH that is marginally better capacity, much more
> tempermental and extremely costly.
> Let's see, a 12vdc BB600 battery costs $100 or less, puts out
> about 35 usable amphrs and 800amps? vs a NiMH which costs 10-15x's more
> that dies in hot weather, requires a expensive charger/BMS and limited
> in amps. I know which one I'd want!!
> So I'd not do shorting out cells unless your string was brand
> new, just out of shorted storage or hopelessly out of balance. Doing it
> will I believe shorten their life which is fine for an aircraft that
> will replace them every 2-3 yrs or so, but not for EV's which want them
> to run 20+ yrs!!
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Nicad resetting
> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:18:46 -0800
>
>>Mike,
>>
>>I am one of the first to use these BB600's in an EV. I did a few of
>>these 0 V maintenance charge before. The easiest way I found is to
>>attach a short thin wire (NiChrom may be) across the top of each cells
>>and leave them for a few hours. I drilled small holes on the
>>interconnects to slot these wires in and hold them in place. This
>>would drain each cell safely to 0V. Then, do a slow constant current
>>charge like you would the first time you recharge them.
>>
>>However, make sure you do this in s well ventilated area.
>>The combined heat of those short wire acts like a large heater.
>>
>>On 11/30/06, Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Too late now ;0
>>>
>>> Granted, it would be better to drain them individually.
>>> But with 252 cells it's just not practical.
>>>
>>> The nicad book I have talks about BB600's and liquid filled nicads
>>>alot. One thing it mentions is that cell reversal is not a big deal.
>>> I also think that the conditions in which they occur are important
>>>too. If I had a reversed cell moving 30 to 100 amps or more thru it,
>>>I'd be concerned. But I drained the pack very slowly.
>>> The bottom line is we'll see what the outcome is. This also speaks
>>>for the need for a monitoring system. So I'm back on that.
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Peter VanDerWal"
>>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> > Bad idea!!!
>>> >
>>> > You can bring individual cells down to zero volts, but
>>> if you try to bring
>>> > the whole pack down while wired in series you will almost
>>> >certainly reverse one or more cells (this is a bad thing).
>>> > At any rate, I'm not sure of the benifit from doing this and the
>>> >recommendation is concerning dry cell
>>> nicads anyway. I don't recall Daft
>>> > reccomending this as a normal maintenance requirement for their
>>> > flooded cells.
>>> >
>>> > > Somewhere I read (in my nicad book) and was told by a nicad old
>>> > > timer that every 100 charge/discharge cycles the pack should be
>>> > > brought down to zero volts.
>>> > > So I bought a 6 foot long, 240v, 1500 watt baseboard
>>heater to load the pack down after I drove it for 32.5
>>> > > ah's. When the pack was at 160v and 5 amps, some cells were at
>>> > > 1.1v and some were at -.100v. Man! So I guess it's time to zero
>>> > > them out. The book I have
>>says they vent either oxygen or hydrogen first during a
>>> > > mild reversal, then the other gas if the reversal is deeper.
>>> > > We'll see how flat it is in the morning.
>>> > >
>>> > > This flattening is just for the 225 green cells. The
>>> > > 27 red cells seem to have a higher voltage and water level, so
>>> > > they will get flattened separate from the greentops. I did 2 load
>
>>> > > tests using my load tester on
>>the redtops and they came out to 27-30 ah's at an average
>>> > > load of about 35 amps. The greentops came out to about 32.5 ah
>>> > >from just driving and watching the Emeter.
>>> > > Mike
>>> > >
>>> >>
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Edward Ang
>>President
>>AIR Lab Corp
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd like to build a controller for the ADC motors that does regen braking.
Where would I find more info on what that involves?
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know anything about how the speed is controlled on an electric
transit bus? Do they use resistors or do they use SCR or MOSFET
controllers? How about electric locomotives? What kind of controller do
they use?
Might it be possible to use a surplus bus or train controller in an EV and
get more amps than a 'Zilla?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
The paragraph below answers my question exactly, thanks for posting this.
-- Eric
John wrote:
I don't know if this adds anything to the discussion or not but I
saved this email from John Wayland answering a question of mine about
motor wiring..
On Tuesday, December 5, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Eric Poulsen wrote:
I know why the Curtis controllers have 4 connectors. The 4th one is
for plug braking.
Why does a Zilla have 4 connectors? Is one of them only for the
current shunt?
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed Mar 8, 2006 12:49:07 AM US/Eastern
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Motor wiring
Reply-To: [email protected]
My Zilla manual on the other hand has B+, B- M+ and M- terminals
with connections:
Zilla M- to motor A1
motor A2 to motor field (would this be S2 on my advanced dc motor?)
other motor field to Zilla M+
Zilla B- to Pack -
Zilla B+ to Pack + (via contactor)
The above is for controllers that are 'high side switchers', in other
words, the transistors inside the controller pulse the positive side
of the pack. The Zilla is a high side switcher type. Normally it would
be just like a Curtis, in that you would use just three connections,
B+ and B- for battery pack input, and the switched side as the M+
output to the motor with the other terminal of the motor connected to
battery minus. The difference is, that the Zilla also has a built in
shunt for measuring motor loop current. Inside the controller, the
shunt has one side connected to the battery negative terminal, with
the other end of the shunt being the M- terminal that feeds the motor
its battery negative.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all, a group of us have been working to set up a replacement V is for
Voltage forum that is existing contingent on the continued downtime of the
VV.com forum. The contingent replacement forum is located at:
http://visforvoltage.net
The forum software is a little different as it is based on the Drupal
system. We have done what we can to have it work similarly but there are
differences.
Registration and usage is free. Please try to register using the same user
name you had on the VV.com forum.
And, FWIW, if the VV.com forum returns to proper functioning theVV.net site
will more than likely become moot and be taken down. We are doing this in
support of the community and the needs of the community. If the community is
able to restore VV.com there is little need for having competing web sites.
But if VV.com is unable
to be restored, there is little need to hold the community back from having
a web site.
There are already 3 dozen or so users on this new site fairly actively using
it.
Gman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"nikki" wrote:
I hate to say it, but after driving a REVA in the UK I can think
of much worse things to happen. These little cars give EVs a bad
name. They're cheap, look like they'd fall apart when you touch
them, and uncomfortable. The driving position sucks, the rear
seat-belts are static for some random reason [...]
Reva's design was originally conceived to address a perceived gap
between two-wheelers and the smallest car available in India, a
4-seater Maruti 800 [1] [2]. It was designed around 1995 and built
later that decade by a group that had no prior experience in
building cars.
With so many EV projects that have come and gone world-over since
then, it's somewhat of a surprise that an independent and small
automotive company has survived for so long on its own, selling no
more than a few hundred vehicles a year and without any govt.
subsidy.
Last year they came out with a concept called Reva NXG that had
twice the top speed and 2.5 times the range of current Reva [3].
They had plans to mass produce NXG but nothing has happened so far.
Perhaps postponed for lack of funds?
Good news is, Reva India just secured $20 million funding from two
investors [4]. So you can expect new models and an enhanced
production capacity in the next few years.
[1] Indian Institute of Management case study on REVA
http://202.41.106.14/~rishi/reva.pdf
[2] Maruti 800
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maruti_800
[3] Reva Introduces NXG Electric City Car
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/04/reva_introduces.html
[4] Money power to rev up REVA
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1061203/asp/business/story_7084783.asp
Thanks,
Manu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Forgot to say I'm in Corrupticut. Probably not worth shipping costs.
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: List EV <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2006 10:08:04 PM
Subject: Batteries
I have 29 Dynasty 12v 33ah VRLA batteries. They are the size of garden tractor
batteries and weigh 27lbs each. See
http://www.sure-power.com/product/cd_battery/pdf/12-140.pdf . I currently have
24 of them serially buddy paired to 144v powering my Suzuki Sidekick with a
range of 16 miles of very hilly terrain. I am replacing them with flooded golf
cart batteries because I need more range. Before I go selling them off on
Craig's list or Ebay, is anybody on the list interested?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wouldn't use a chariot style scooter. Two wheels front to back is more
reliable, safer, faster & useful. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Scooters
>
> > John,
> >
> > Don't settle for those overpriced imitations.
> >
> > See the original Segway here:
> > http://www.haihongco.com/pro.asp?id=81&clas=Electric%20Scooter
> >
> > Note, Haihong says max.load capacity only 105lbs, where x-treme says
> > 300lbs?
>
> Umm, that is an imitation Segway. You don't even have to look all that
> close to see the extra two wheels.
>
> I wonder if they messed up the units when translating. I've noticed a lot
> of chinese web sites tend to mix up lbs and kgs, inches and cm etc.
>
>
>
> >
> > Other exciting new EV product from Yong Kang:
> >
> > This one is set to sweep the solar EV competitions:
> >
http://chinabotao.en.alibaba.com/product/0/51194771/Solar_Cell_Sweeper.html
> > or tinyURL here:
> > http://tinyurl.com/y46l2m
>
> Yow! All of 10mph, the other competitors will have a hard time not
> running over it :)
> Of course I'm sure it will make a "clean sweep"
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just posted to my website:
www.elecars.spaces.live.com<http://www.elecars.spaces.live.com/> a folder of
photos I located when my dad took delivery of Bradley components winter of 1980
and subsequent photos of the assembly of the Bradley GTE which I recently
inherited from his estate. Look for the folder: "Bradley GTE from Delivery to
Completion"
Don B. Davidson III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
www.dbd3.spaces.live.com<http://www.dbd3.spaces.live.com/>
www.elecars.spaces.live.com<http://www.elecars.spaces.live.com/>
Rome NY
USA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 5, 2006, at 11:17 PM, Bruce wrote:
Does anyone know anything about how the speed is controlled on an
electric
transit bus? Do they use resistors or do they use SCR or MOSFET
controllers? How about electric locomotives? What kind of controller
do
they use?
As far as I know, all trolley buses and nearly all electric locomotives
run on AC. Since batteries produce DC, you'd have a big headache
trying to use batteries to power a trolley or bus controller.
As for electric locomotives, I'm sure Bob Rice will speak up on how
they work.
I can add that there are a class of electric locomotives that run on
batteries - underground mine trains. I'd imagine these controllers
could be made to work in a car. Zapi is one company that makes these
controllers.
Might it be possible to use a surplus bus or train controller in an EV
and
get more amps than a 'Zilla?
Why would anyone want more amps than a Zilla can provide? :)
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> From: "Marty Escarcega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date
> I'm surprised I got no responses about what folks think about what I was
> offered or what I should look for?
> Is the Sevcon controller desireable? How about the motor? What else might I
> need? Advice/comments/thoughts/help appreciated.
> Marty
Hi Marty
I would go with a Alltracks controller ,,, they got one that will do 72v ,
you might even get by with less voltage , like the 48v city cars or old.
would need a series motor for it . So there is some kind of tranny with
clutch/ fly wheel ect . Probable the hardest part is going to be mounting the
motor to the tranny . What are your plans this way . ?
steve clunn
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Cameron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 8:38 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Introduction
>
> Hi Marty, welcome to the list - it looks like an exciting project.
>
> A good idea is to shop around a bit. Check out Electro Automotive and
> EVParts.com they both have all you need and lots of experience on how you
> can be successful on a shoestring budget.
>
> I am curious - what was the original top speed of those vehicles with a gas
> engine?
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
>
> Hi, my name is Marty, I live in Mesa, AZ. I just recently purchased a 1963
> Westcoaster Mailster.
> http://members.cox.net/escarcega-photos/Mailster/63mailster2.jpg
> Specs on the little guy:
> 1100lbs
> Onan 12.9hp 2 cylinder engine. Top speed about 40mph
> 3 Speed Manual transmission with reverse and clutch Body is fiberglass
>
> It was used by the post office in the 60's to deliver mail. When I laid my
> eyes on it, I knew I had to have it. It would be a real head turner. Since
> the engine was out and disassembled, I thought it would be great to convert
> it to an electric car and use as a daily driver to and from work. My head is
> spinning from all the information on the internet! (How I found you folks)
> My capabilities are, machining (amateur, I have a lathe and mill at home).
> Electrical work (I am an electrician by trade, I work for the City of Mesa
> as a Traffic Signal technician) with some electronic background.
>
> >From what I have read, its best to keep the transmission but use it
> without
> a clutch?
> Mesa, is FLAT no hills to speak of. My commute is about 10miles round trip
> per day.
> I would like to try and reasonably keep up with traffic, so 45mph would be
> great.
>
> I'd like to build a reliable electric car on a shoe string. I have been
> offered that would put a 48volt system together:
> 1 controller - Sevcon - sep ex - 550 amp.
> 1 motor, Advanced DC - Sep Ex - Up to 12.8 hp.
> 1 24 volt contactor (the right one for the system)
> 1 pin wiring kit.
> 1 wire diagram
> For $600, I thought it sounded like a really good deal, but am looking for
> your input, thoughts and advice. I also need a charger.
> I hope to document the entire process on my web page, though, I am in the
> research mode now.
>
> Thank you!
> Marty
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jack,
The following is a technical paper by Paul Hills on the theory of DC motor
speed control, circuit diagrams, the math and includes regeneration.
Just type in your search engine, Paul Hills Speed Controller, and it will
go right to the WEB address. I can't type his WEB address because I do not
have my keyboard set up to print a wavy line.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 10:48 PM
Subject: Regen with ADC motors
> I'd like to build a controller for the ADC motors that does regen
> braking.
> Where would I find more info on what that involves?
> Jack
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Storm;
Can ya hold off til the 9th as we will all(Right?) be getting together to
the EAA Meeting Club Dinner in Worster on Sat the 9th. Maybe somebody else
in our regeon might be interested? Maybe bring one wuth ya to the dinner for
show an' tell?
Seeya?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "List EV" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 10:08 PM
Subject: Batteries
> I have 29 Dynasty 12v 33ah VRLA batteries. They are the size of garden
tractor batteries and weigh 27lbs each. See
http://www.sure-power.com/product/cd_battery/pdf/12-140.pdf . I currently
have 24 of them serially buddy paired to 144v powering my Suzuki Sidekick
with a range of 16 miles of very hilly terrain. I am replacing them with
flooded golf cart batteries because I need more range. Before I go selling
them off on Craig's list or Ebay, is anybody on the list interested?
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.9/571 - Release Date: 12/5/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wouldn't use a chariot style scooter. Two wheels front to back is
> more reliable, safer, faster & useful. Lawrence Rhodes....
I'm going to guess a smoother ride also. And can't imagine how a Segway
el al performs on a sidewalk if one (left or right side) wheel drops
over the side/curb? Or traveling along a road and a left or right side
wheel contacts the curb. "Self-balancing" or not.
Besides, for a real chariot EV you have to go to the Italians:
http://www.bigaitalia.it/
:)
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 1:17 AM
Subject: Controller on Trolley Transit Buses
> Does anyone know anything about how the speed is controlled on an electric
> transit bus? Do they use resistors or do they use SCR or MOSFET
> controllers? How about electric locomotives? What kind of controller do
> they use?
>
> Might it be possible to use a surplus bus or train controller in an EV and
> get more amps than a 'Zilla?
>
> Hi Bruce, an' EVerybody;
Depends on the vintage of the trolley bus or lokie? What power source,
AC or DC, and voltage? Most light rail stuff is 600-700 volts DC, simply
from over 100 years of tradition. Older trolleys simply series paralleled
motors and resisters. Trolley busses have only one motor so hafta do it all
with big resisters, they would pipe that heat aboard, nice feature in
Vancouver and Seattle.Newer stuff is solid state, the later offerings, run
AC motors. Never had a Max train apart, but am guessing here?Stuff I worked
on thousands of years ago, in the 70's was bi sexual, could run on 11100volt
AC lines or switch over to 700 volts DC third rail. But these cars are
unique to NYC. There are alot of things unique to NYC, anyhow. Most Heavy
rail electrification was/is Hy voltage AC. Amtrak lives with THREE systems
between Boston and Washington. The anchient 11000 volt 25 HZ NY to
Washington, Upgraded, same old wire, 13500 vac @ 60 HZ Cycle. Hey! They
joined the 20th century ,in CT!!!And, hold yur breath! 25000 Volts 60 hz
New Haven to Boston! Boy! Can that give you a great pyrotechnic in a short
circus mode!The Acela Express, our version of France's TGV train and lesser
lokies carry BIG ass transformer to digest all the voltage changes. They
series- parallel the primary coils, to deal with it. Smooth it into DC and
MAKE it back into AC for the AC motors. Sounds like a big pain in the ass,
but with todaze solid state stuff, possable within the confines of a train
body.Whats a few hundred tons among friends, anyhow?The big selling point
with all this is cool regen. You pump some serious amps BACK into the
overhead. You get a warm fuzzy feeling seeing all that amps going back into
the power lines when you go for the brakes!Oh yes you can see it on the amp
meters in the cab.The older lokies read out in real amps, but they are
dumbing it down so all you see now is that it IS feeding back, but not in
amps. Sigh!Amps Smamps, with the new hires you are lucky that they EVen KNOW
it's electric!No Diseasel Rumble, must be electric?!Power is off, were
stopped?? Hmmm?Reset- reset? Nope!
You can wander off in RR history, and get WAY more OT than this. I'll
say and send ya off to the library, or Amazon for the all inclusive coffee
table book; "When the Steam Railroads Electrifyed" By William Middleton. It
is probably out of print, but ya never know?Amazon found me a copy of "
Trolley Car Treasury" from the 50's!!I recommend that one, too.By Frank
Rowsome, it is a facinating tongue in cheek history of ALL trolley cars,
including Air Cars, often a topic on here.Naptha cars, steam,Clockwork,Cable
and.. Gasp! Electric, all kinds of wierd ways to run trolleys!
I harp alot on RR stuff alot on the List as the technology is pretty
darn similar! John Wayland and Dennis Berube are rediscovering technology
that was invented in the LAST century, 18th I mean.Brush shifting , for max
timing,on Current Eliminater, Series paralleling on the Zombie. Field
weakening? I don't know if the batteries these guyz are running can handle
this? After all a series ,motor is basicly a rotery short circuit at
best<g>!All this was old hat about when the Titanic and Lusitania went down.
The latter, helped a bit , by a Diseasel electric, DC powered,
Submarine.Considered, at the time VERY unsporting, just hiding there, and
shooting without warning.
Sea Ya
Bob
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.9/571 - Release Date: 12/5/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With that Italian chariot I'd feel compelled to wear a Roman Legionaire's
helmet. Still, pretty cool for tooling around Florence.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lock Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Scooters
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I wouldn't use a chariot style scooter. Two wheels front to back is
more reliable, safer, faster & useful. Lawrence Rhodes....
I'm going to guess a smoother ride also. And can't imagine how a Segway
el al performs on a sidewalk if one (left or right side) wheel drops
over the side/curb? Or traveling along a road and a left or right side
wheel contacts the curb. "Self-balancing" or not.
Besides, for a real chariot EV you have to go to the Italians:
http://www.bigaitalia.it/
:)
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thanks Roland, but the link that comes up in google is dead.
I did find a paper written by Dean Thompson which is excellent,
http://eprints.usq.edu.au/archive/00000501/01/DeanTHOMPSON-2005.pdf
It looks like all I need is to add a high-side switch to my existing
controller. That's what I thought, but I recall something about the
field needing to be seperately excited. The Thompson paper doesn't do that.
Jack
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Jack,
The following is a technical paper by Paul Hills on the theory of DC motor
speed control, circuit diagrams, the math and includes regeneration.
Just type in your search engine, Paul Hills Speed Controller, and it will
go right to the WEB address. I can't type his WEB address because I do not
have my keyboard set up to print a wavy line.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 10:48 PM
Subject: Regen with ADC motors
I'd like to build a controller for the ADC motors that does regen
braking.
Where would I find more info on what that involves?
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> thanks Roland, but the link that comes up in google is dead.
Try here:
http://homepages.which.net/~paul.hills/SpeedControl/SpeedControllersBody.html
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/6tjhr
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid Pedestrian
> I did find a paper written by Dean Thompson which is excellent,
> http://eprints.usq.edu.au/archive/00000501/01/DeanTHOMPSON-2005.pdf
> It looks like all I need is to add a high-side switch to my existing
> controller. That's what I thought, but I recall something about the
> field needing to be seperately excited. The Thompson paper doesn't
> do that.
> Jack
>
>
> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > Hello Jack,
> >
> > The following is a technical paper by Paul Hills on the theory of
> DC motor
> > speed control, circuit diagrams, the math and includes
> regeneration.
> >
> > Just type in your search engine, Paul Hills Speed Controller, and
> it will
> > go right to the WEB address. I can't type his WEB address because
> I do not
> > have my keyboard set up to print a wavy line.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 10:48 PM
> > Subject: Regen with ADC motors
> >
> >
> >
> >>I'd like to build a controller for the ADC motors that does regen
> >>braking.
> >>Where would I find more info on what that involves?
> >>Jack
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A buddy of mine mentioned something about a new battery technology from
Valence - apparently it was announced at the EDTA conference. Anyone have
details? I hear it's a step up from their phosphate-based Li-Ion battery,
but I can't find info on this anywhere.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Dec 2006 at 10:56, Bob Rice wrote:
> John Wayland and Dennis Berube are rediscovering technology that
> was invented in the LAST century, 18th I mean.Brush shifting , for max
> timing,on Current Eliminater, Series paralleling on the Zombie.
Yep. Ben Franklin used parallel kites to get more current, series kites for
more voltage. ;-)
FWIW, Alessandro Volta developed the electric battery in 1800. A Voltaic
pile is definitely a series circuit!
But the 18th century might be a bit early for motor brush shifting. The
motor didn't yet exist. Wikipedia notes that Michael Faraday developed a
curiosity that produced motion from electricity in 1821, and the first
really useful motor came from Zenoble Gramme's workshop in 1873.
This technology was used in EVs in the early 20th century, barely 50 years
later. Remarkable.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is probably a very dumb question. I'm sorry.
I was reading about power generating windmills, and it occured to me,
what about capturing the power from the wheels of the car when it is
just cruising. Which is to say, the power is not being applied via the
accelerator, and the brakes aren't being applied via the brake, but the
car has speed, and is coasting. The turning of the wheels will generate
a current on the motor, which can then be captured in the battery.
I haven't read anything about this, why is that? It seems that it'd be
pretty simple to build a switch that charges the batteries when the
accelerator isn't being pressed.. Perhaps the amount of energy would
be negligible, but then, it seems, so would the weight of the device
to capture the energy. And then, if you changed your driving habits
a bit, I bet you could maintain the charge on the batteries for a bit
longer. Not on the freeway for sure, but for around town driving,
this could be ideal, coupled with regen braking.
Thank you for your help..
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
r e d d i n g k
1668 west boulevard. los angeles, CA 90019
(323) 857 . 5326 http://www.reddingk.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can't get something for nothing.
What most folks forget is that you don't just have to spin a
generator, you have to apply mechanical torque to get energy out of
it. (This is subtle, but vital point.)
Regenerative braking is what you get when you extract energy from the
spinning wheels. The car slows down quite nicely as its kinetic
energy is transformed into electrical energy and then stored as
chemical energy in the batteries.
Bill Dube'
At 10:23 AM 12/6/2006, you wrote:
This is probably a very dumb question. I'm sorry.
I was reading about power generating windmills, and it occured to me,
what about capturing the power from the wheels of the car when it is
just cruising. Which is to say, the power is not being applied via the
accelerator, and the brakes aren't being applied via the brake, but the
car has speed, and is coasting. The turning of the wheels will generate
a current on the motor, which can then be captured in the battery.
I haven't read anything about this, why is that? It seems that it'd be
pretty simple to build a switch that charges the batteries when the
accelerator isn't being pressed.. Perhaps the amount of energy would
be negligible, but then, it seems, so would the weight of the device
to capture the energy. And then, if you changed your driving habits
a bit, I bet you could maintain the charge on the batteries for a bit
longer. Not on the freeway for sure, but for around town driving,
this could be ideal, coupled with regen braking.
Thank you for your help..
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
r e d d i n g k
1668 west boulevard. los angeles, CA 90019
(323) 857 . 5326 http://www.reddingk.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
--- End Message ---
