EV Digest 6197
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(Grocery employees get hybrid purchase rebate)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Toyota: plug-in hybrid R&D, complicated & partly green)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(UK hybrid Vehicle Conference 06 - Warwick U. Dec. 12&13)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(Environmental heckler confronts GM @ LA Auto Show)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Serial hybrid Lagoon 440 catamaran)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(Firefly PbSO4 battery: lighter Weight & increased power)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(Electric-air hybrid fraudster nabbed in Cambodia)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EVLN(Electric-air hybrid fraudster nabbed in Cambodia)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Definitly something wrong
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) RE: Definitly something wrong
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Motor arrived: Thanks, Jim!
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Need a Rev Limiter
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Rabbit EV available
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Rabbit EV available
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Grocery employees get hybrid purchase rebate)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=598&pid=0&sid=983167&page=2
Organic Grocer Thinks Green and Acts Green Nov 21st - 10:08pm
By DORI BERMAN The (Baltimore) Daily Record
ROCKVILLE, Md. (AP) - Scott Nash's "pseudo-hippie" parents used
to send him to junior high with bean-sprout sandwiches for lunch.
Little did he know those sandwiches provided a glimpse into his
future. [Nash is] the founder and owner of Rockville-based My
Organic Market [ http://myorganicmarket.com ] [...]
Nash's commitment to the environment goes beyond clean power.
Employees who work for the company for at least two years are
eligible to receive $3,000 toward a hybrid vehicle or a vehicle
that gets 45 miles per gallon or better. There are also cash
incentives for employees who purchase certain energy-efficient
appliances. And each new worker receives a "green home package,"
which includes energy-saving light bulbs and a programmable
thermostat.
Skulnik noted that Nash implemented his hybrid assistance program
before huge employers such as Bank of America and Google did the
same.
Meanwhile, Nash also encourages his customers to be
environmentally conscious. The company's Think Outside the Bag
campaign, promoted heavily in stores, offers free reusable bags
to shoppers.
Another program, We Love Inflation, brings an air pump to the
stores' parking lots twice a year to fill customers' tires.
Vehicles running on fully inflated tires use less gas than those
with deflated tires.
"I root for MOM's because they're proving the case that you can
be good for the environment and good for business," Skulnik
said.
Information from: The (Baltimore) Daily Record,
http://www.mddailyrecord.com Copyright 2006 The Associated Press.
All rights reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Yahoo! Music Unlimited
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EVLN(Toyota: plug-in hybrid R&D, complicated & partly green)-long
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http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/features/news/20061206p2g00m0fe031000c.html
Toyota in the US: Plugging in to a cleaner environment December 6,
2006
Felix Kramer shows off his plug-in Prius hybrid. (Tamotsu
Takatsuka/Mainichi Shimbun)
A lithium ion battery in the trunk of a plug-in hybrid. (Tamotsu
Takatsuka/Mainichi Shimbun)During his 2006 State of the Union
address on Jan. 31, U.S. President George W. Bush pledged to
research hybrid, electronic and hydrogen-powered cars with the
aim of reducing American dependence on Middle Eastern oil by 75
percent by 2025.
The development of plug-in hybrid cars -- vehicles powered by
electric batteries charged by plugging them into household power
points -- was one of the pillars of the president's speech.
Plug-in hybrids are garnering support from all spectrums, with
conservatives and Republican voters joining environmentalists in
backing their development. Support from the right comes from the
public security viewpoint of having an energy policy that reduces
the U.S.' dependence on Middle Eastern oil.
Toyota has hardly been a positive force in the development of
plug-in hybrid cars. It only announced it planned to tackle
plug-in research in earnest five months after Bush's speech.
Others in the U.S. have already taken Toyota's Prius hybrid car
and turned it into a plug-in themselves.
California Cars Initiative, a non-profit organization in
California, was the first to use a Prius plug-in on public roads.
Felix Kramer, founder of CalCars, as the organization calls
itself, says hybrid plug-ins can lead to dramatic reductions in
fuel consumption.
Kramer currently drives a plug-in Prius adapted by a company
called Energy CS. This is one of three companies in the U.S. and
Canada that adapts hybrid cars to make them plug-ins. It installs
a lithium-ion battery in the trunk of the car, bringing its fuel
efficiency rate up over 42 kilometers per liter.
The engine in the plug-in Prius doesn't even kick in when driving
under 40 kilometers per hour.
It can also travel for about 30 kilometers on the power of its
battery alone. The battery is charged overnight simply by
plugging the car into a household power point. It barely needs
gasoline if used for everyday tasks. Installing the battery also
takes up very little trunk space and the plug-ins are practical.
That doesn't mean everything about the plug-in hybrids is good.
Lithium ion batteries are still really only in their
developmental stages and there are problems with their safety and
longevity. Sony sold lithium ion batteries for laptop computers
and they had problems with overheating and fires breaking out,
prompting a series of recalls. Automakers believe lithium ion
batteries need to establish more reliability before they can be
used in their products.
CalCars is currently developing do-it-yourself kits that would
allow hybrid car drivers to turn their cars into plug-ins.
CalCars plans to use Nickel-hydrogen batteries instead of lithium
ion, which will allow the plug-ins to travel even greater
distances.
Kramer said that companies like Energy CS are struggling to find
people interested in turning their hybrid cars into plug-in
hybrids. He adds that it will be a long time before automakers
are selling plug-ins.
But Kramer says there is still great demand for plug-ins and he
wants to get CalCars' kits on the market within two to three
months at a price under 5,000 dollars.
Automakers are slowly turning their attention toward the
development of plug-ins. Whether Toyota, which led the way with
hybrid cars, can play a similar role with plug-ins remains to be
seen. (By Tamotsu Takatsuka/Mainichi Shimbun)
===
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/features/news/20061205p2g00m0fe022000c.html
Toyota in the U.S.: Different shades of green
Bluewater Network's ad on the New York Times and other
papers.It's Los Angeles in the morning. There are four or five
lanes along the highway, but in the morning rush hour, they're
all jam-packed. One lane on the far left, however, has fewer cars
than the others. It's the car pool lane.
This lane was originally made available only to cars carrying at
least one passenger other than the driver and was set up to try
and ease traffic congestion and limit the effects of traffic on
the environment. But there is a Toyota Prius traveling along the
car pool lane carrying only one person, though nobody is
complaining.
Since August last year, Prius and other hybrid cars like Honda's
Civic Hybrid have been allowed to use car pool lanes even if only
one person in the car because they were recognized as being easy
on the environment. Other hybrid cars like Toyota's Highlander
Hybrid and Lexus RX400h were not accorded the same status because
of their fuel efficiency. Neither of the cars met the required
efficiency rate of being able to travel 45 miles per gallon
(about 19 kilometers per liter).
When the RX400h came onto the market, the San Francisco-based
environmental activist group Bluewater Network took out ads in
the New York Times and other papers to complain about Toyota. The
ad featured Toyota Motor Co. President Katsuaki Watanabe pictured
beside a suit-clad wolf covered in a lambskin and asked the
question: Is Toyota a wolf in sheep's clothing?
Danielle Fugere, global warming campaign director at Bluewater
Network, said that Toyota and its Prius are both green, but
slammed the automaker because overall fuel efficiency in all its
cars had declined since 1990. She also said she was sad to see
Toyota become involved in litigation against the state of
California over environment-related issues.
That litigation revolves around California's Act AB1493,
legislation passed in July 2002 aimed at cutting carbon dioxide
emissions. In 2004, automakers joined forces to sue California,
claiming it had no right to enact environmental legislation and
seeking Act AB1493 be declared void.
In September, the State of California struck back, suing six
automakers from Japan and the United States, saying the carbon
dioxide emissions from their vehicles had forced the state to
spend more combating global warming. The automakers' suit against
the state is due to reach the courts next month.
Toyota has worked hard to promote its image as a green company.
Since 2003, it has joined forces with environmental group Global
Green USA to carry out the Red Carpet, Green Star campaign where
Hollywood superstars of the ilk of Leonardo di Caprio, Cameron
Diaz and Brad Pitt have been carried to red carpet events in
Prius hybrid cars, serving to bolster Toyota's image as a green
company and proving a good promotion for the vehicle, too.
Daniel M. Kammen, a professor at the University of California,
Berkeley, said that Toyota is a "complicated company," being
green some times but not at others. Kammen said Toyota is the
leading hybrid car manufacturer but has not done enough to lead
the Big Three into using hybrid technology. (By Tamotsu
Takatsuka/Mainichi Shimbun)
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
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EVLN(UK hybrid Vehicle Conference 06 - Warwick U. Dec. 12&13)
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informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
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http://www.tnn.co.uk/UKNews/plonearticle.2006-11-30.4124867376
Hybrid Vehicle Conference 2006 - Warwick University will run its
'Hybrid Vehicle Conference' on 12th and 13th December 2006.
"It will bring together technical, business and government people
in an exciting forum for information exchange and the development
of new collaborative relationships" said Adam Willows, from the
University. "The event is unique in the UK, focused on the
challenges and opportunities of hybrid vehicle technology."
Dr. Stephen Ladyman, Minister for Transport and Nick Paul,
chairman of Advantage West Midlands will give the keynote
speeches. There will also be a Gala Dinner and entertainment at
Warwick Castle on the evening of 12 December.
http://www.hevents.org.uk/conference/
by CV News Brief 30/11/2006 ©Transport News Network Ltd.
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Do you Yahoo!?
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EVLN(Environmental heckler confronts GM @ LA Auto Show)
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http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/business/16124446.htm
Posted on Wed, Nov. 29, 2006 GARY GENTILE Associated Press
Environmental heckler confronts GM chief at Los Angeles Auto
Show
LOS ANGELES - General Motors Corp. Chief Executive Rick Wagoner
got a surprise at the end of his speech Wednesday at the Los
Angeles Auto Show when an environmental activist joined him on
stage.
The heckler told Wagoner it was great to see an automaker take an
environmental stand. The man unfurled a large black-and-white
contract of sorts and asked Wagoner if he would sign a pledge to
be the fuel economy leader in the industry by 2010.
Wagoner, a bit taken aback, politely said that his speech about
GM's efforts to develop green technology including a plug-in
hybrid vehicle should speak for itself.
"I appreciate your support. I'm sorry you have to leave now,"
Wagoner told the man. "Please take it away." [...]
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Do you Yahoo!?
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EVLN(Serial hybrid Lagoon 440 catamaran)-long
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http://www.sailmag.com/boatreviews/Lagoon440/
Lagoon 440 A French catamaran offers a different approach to
power and propulsion by Tom Dove
Even a short look back in time shows how accustomed we have
become to luxury in our boats. We expect beautiful wood joinery,
smooth fiberglass work, large electrical systems, sophisticated
nav gear, electric winches, effortless sail handling, spacious
living areas, and galleys that rival our kitchens at home. The
Lagoon 440 has all that, and as the TV ads say, But wait. Thats
not all.
The hidden secret of the Lagoon 440 I sailed in Miami is its
propulsion system. This boat has no diesel drive train at
allits all electric. (Optional on the 440, and Lagoon plans to
offer this system on all its boats in the future.) Twin electric
motors, one mounted in each hull, power the boat. They turn the
props at 900 to 1,100 rpm at cruise, an ideal speed for
efficiency in this size range.
Energy for the motors comes from a 22-kW diesel genset, mounted
in a locker in the bridgedeck, which charges a massive storage
bank equivalent to twelve 8D-size batteries. (The extra weight of
the batteries is compensated for by the lack of two heavy diesel
engines mounted near the sterns and by the ability to mount the
battery weight closer to the center of the boat.) The batteries
are wired in series to give 144 volts. Its a bit like the system
in a hybrid car, where the genset starts automatically when the
batteries need recharging. This happens at 50 percent to 80
percent discharge and is adjustable.
In practice, I found the electric drive nearly silent, with only
a whir from the props when we ran at cruise speed. The big
surprise came when the genset started. The sound level was still
so low that my decibel meter couldnt register it, even when I
held it next to the generator box. This system is literally as
quiet as an air-conditioner. Thats one of the advantages of this
unique drive system. The genset can be mounted anywhere and be
insulated effectively for sound. Also, the motors are quite
small, generate little heat, and do not require cooling water or
an exhaust, so the designer has lots of freedom in placing them
in the hull and gains space for other uses.
But wait. Thats not all. Any electric motor works as a generator
if you apply torque to turn the shaft instead of putting current
into the motor and taking shaft torque out to do work. In a
hybrid car, coasting downhill puts the motor into generator mode,
recharging the batteries until the car stops. In the Lagoon,
sailing in a good breeze makes the props turn the drive shaft as
they move through the water, cranking the motors and generating
electric current from them. That recharges the battery bank.
Ive been skeptical of this regenerative aspect of the system
because it requires substantial power from the props, but the
skipper of our test boat assured me that it really works, at
least on open-ocean passages. During one trip so much current was
generated in the trades that the control system shut off the
motors and stopped the props to prevent overcharging the
batteries. This is splendid news for voyagers, who could have an
inexhaustible source of energy for onboard systems as long as
they sail. Theres a separate battery bank for the house, along
with an inverter to change the DC into AC for appliances that
require it. The same genset, or the props in regenerative mode,
power both propulsion and house systems.
With all this electrical wizardry, its almost possible to
overlook the boat itself. That would be a mistake. The Lagoon 440
is a well-made vessel with lovely, luxurious accommodations. I
especially liked the space on the flybridge and the muted decor
of the cabins. Tall sailors will welcome the substantial overhead
clearances belowdecks. The panoramic view through the saloon
windows is not only appealing, its practical in inclement
weather as you can sail the boat via autopilot from the comfort
of this living space. For entertaining a crowd, the saloon table
converts from small to large easily. The three-cabin Owners
version dedicates almost the entire starboard hull to a master
suite. Thats a lot of room on a vessel this size, and it
includes a couple of comfy chairs, a large head compartment, and
plenty of hanging-locker space.
This boats mission is long-range cruising by a family, or
charter service, and thats generally going to be in breezier
conditions than I encountered in Miami, which limited my test
sail. Any vessel this size is out of place when sailing in light
breezes and tacking in close quarters, but in the Caribbean trade
winds, the Lagoon 440 will be perfectly at home. The big cat
handles nicely under either power or sail but without much
feedback or helm feel. The sight lines from the flybridge are
excellent. The high-cut jib minimizes the blind spot. I found the
Lagoon 440 cruised easily at about 8 knots under power and was
highly maneuverable.
Sail handling on a vessel this size is a major concern, and the
Lagoon accomplishes it gracefully with the aid of electric
winches and conveniently led halyards and sheets. Theres no
shortage of power, thanks to the diesel-electric regenerative
system. The boom is too high for me, an average-height sailor, to
reach easily for flaking, but the roller-furling headsail is easy
to manage.
Conclusion
A quiet, efficient energy system in a well-made boat with all the
amenities for comfortable living is an attractive package. If the
Lagoons propulsion system proves to work in all conditions and
after years of use, well all look back on the 440 as one of the
first production boats to embrace the new technology. Kudos to
Lagoon for pushing the envelope by combining technical expertise,
sailing experience, and aesthetics in what just could be a look
into the future.
Specifications
Price: $500,404 for the three-cabin, three-head Owners version
includes standard diesel engines (electric propulsion system
optional), sails, and delivery (but not rigging, launching, or
taxes) to East Coast USA.
Builder: Lagoon America, Annapolis, MD; www.lagoon-america.com,
410-280-2368
Designer: Marc Van Peteghem & Vincent Prevost
Construction: Hulls and decks are hand laid and then
vacuum-bagged to ensure light weight and complete resin infusion.
Hulls are solid fiberglass below the waterline. Closed-cell foam
core is used above the waterline to minimize weight and provide
extra stiffness. The deck is cored with balsa, and areas where
deck hardware attaches are reinforced with solid glass. Rig is
aluminum.
Pros: Nearly silent under power, better weight distribution,
better fuel economy.
Cons: Only one power source (for electricity and propulsion)
instead of the redundancy two separate engines provide.
LOA - 44'8"
LWL - 41'10"
Beam - 25'3"
Draft - 4'3"
Displacement - 23,148 lbs (empty)
Sail Area - 1071 sq ft (main and jib)
Fuel/water/waste - 172/237/50 gals
Power - 22kW genset, 2 Solomon Technologies electric motors
Electrical - 12 8D batteries
Displacement-Length ratio - 162
Sail Area-Displacement ratio - 15 (100% foretriangle)
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
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EVLN(Firefly PbSO4 battery: lighter Weight & increased power)
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http://www.pjstar.com/stories/112106/BUS_BBJ9O4UL.004.shtml
Firefly continues its surge
New site on tap for company developing innovative battery
Tuesday, November 21, 2006 By STEVE TARTER of the Journal Star
PEORIA - The Peoria start-up company that wants to build a better
battery continues to grow in power.
Firefly Energy Inc., at work on a lightweight lead acid battery
expected to revolutionize the industry, has outgrown its
three-year home at Illinois Central College's North Campus, said
CEO and co-founder Ed Williams. The company will soon announce
plans to relocate to a new site, he said.
Firefly continues to grow in size, with the number of employees
set to go from 26 to 37 over the next six months, said Williams.
Using technology originally developed by Caterpillar Inc. and
spun off as a separate company in 2003, Firefly is busy on a
number of fronts.
Under contract with the Swedish firm Husqvarna, the largest
manufacturer of lawn mowers in the world, Firefly plans to
deliver a battery model to the firm next year with production
expected in 2008, said senior vice president and co-founder Mil
Ovan.
The company also is completing details on a pair of contracts
totaling $5.75 million with the U.S. Department of Defense, he
said.
A battery that's lighter in weight with increased power is of
great interest to a military that has to maneuver in Mideastern
deserts where temperatures can reach 130 degrees in the summer,
said Ovan. "Every 15 degrees over 70 degrees cuts power by
one-half in the traditional battery," he said.
Firefly isn't overlooking the electric and hybrid vehicle market,
said Ovan, noting that the company recently joined the
Washington, D.C.-based Electric Drive Transportation Association.
"Membership in EDTA gives us the opportunity to reach new
customers and partners and to work with the government to advance
electric drive transportation policies in Washington," he said.
Ovan will be one of the speakers at the association's conference
on hybrid and electric vehicles in Washington, D.C., next week
The future looks bright for the company, said Sivam Sabesan, a
research analyst with Frost and Sullivan, a Palo Alto,
Calif.-based consulting firm.
"While Firefly is initially looking to focus on select commercial
and military markets, it is reasonable to expect that this novel
technology will find equally viable markets elsewhere if the
company should choose to enter them, given that the overall size
of the worldwide lead acid market is over $16 billion per year in
sales," he said.
Ovan said the company's stance is "to walk before we run" in
regards to developing batteries for cars and trucks.
"If we execute really well on a first application, perhaps by
2010 or 2011, one could see Firefly batteries in vehicles. We're
already in discussion with two major car companies," he said.
In addition to automakers, Firefly is also drawing attention from
politicians such as U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., who plans to
visit the firm this afternoon.
Durbin said he wants to make energy independence a top priority
when the new Congress convenes next year.
Steve Tarter can be reached at 686-3260 or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[
http://www.fireflyenergy.com/main/images/stories/pdfs/White%20Paper%2010.30.06.pdf
]
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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EVLN(Electric-air hybrid fraudster nabbed in Cambodia)
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http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200611/200611210031.html
Car Fraudster Nabbed in Cambodia
A businessman was arrested in Cambodia on fraud charges after
accepting several billion won from investors to develop an
air-powered car, then fleeing to Cambodia and attempting to
deceive senior officials there including Prime Minister Hun Sen.
In July 2001, a demonstration for an air-powered car was held
with some 100 reporters present in Seoul. Cho Cheol-seung (63),
the CEO of the company which claimed it developed the hybrid car,
explained the car runs on an engine that won patents in eight
countries. It claimed a compressed-air engine alongside an
electric motor enabled the vehicle to travel at speeds of up to
120 km/h per hour.
The press reported that an air-powered car had been in the works,
and such inaccurate reports led to some 3,300 investors putting
W7.6 billion (US$1=W935) into the venture between June last year
and February this year. The company kept saying the car was in
the pipeline for production, but there were no signs of progress
until shareholders threatened to sue.
The embattled Cho left for Cambodia in January this year with a
view to setting up a manufacturing base there. He met with the
Cambodian premier to gain approval to use a local site for the
construction of a factory and even planned a large-scale
presentation of the car in Phnom Penh on Nov. 13 attended by the
prime minister and local celebrities.
But the National Intelligence Service persuaded the Cambodian
government to arrest Cho, who was detained on Nov. 16 at the
orders of Hun Sen. Police announced Monday that Cho was arrested
on fraud charges. A spokesman with Hyundai Motor, the nation's
largest carmaker, said, "It is true that companies are focused on
developing hybrid cars that run on alternative fuels due to
sky-high oil prices. An engine is being developed that runs on
hydrogen fuel extracted from petroleum, but it is still in its
early stage of development.¡± He added there had been ¡°no
research whatever into an air-powered car.
( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
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EVLN(Electric-air hybrid fraudster nabbed in Cambodia)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200611/200611210031.html
Car Fraudster Nabbed in Cambodia
A businessman was arrested in Cambodia on fraud charges after
accepting several billion won from investors to develop an
air-powered car, then fleeing to Cambodia and attempting to
deceive senior officials there including Prime Minister Hun Sen.
In July 2001, a demonstration for an air-powered car was held
with some 100 reporters present in Seoul. Cho Cheol-seung (63),
the CEO of the company which claimed it developed the hybrid car,
explained the car runs on an engine that won patents in eight
countries. It claimed a compressed-air engine alongside an
electric motor enabled the vehicle to travel at speeds of up to
120 km/h per hour.
The press reported that an air-powered car had been in the works,
and such inaccurate reports led to some 3,300 investors putting
W7.6 billion (US$1=W935) into the venture between June last year
and February this year. The company kept saying the car was in
the pipeline for production, but there were no signs of progress
until shareholders threatened to sue.
The embattled Cho left for Cambodia in January this year with a
view to setting up a manufacturing base there. He met with the
Cambodian premier to gain approval to use a local site for the
construction of a factory and even planned a large-scale
presentation of the car in Phnom Penh on Nov. 13 attended by the
prime minister and local celebrities.
But the National Intelligence Service persuaded the Cambodian
government to arrest Cho, who was detained on Nov. 16 at the
orders of Hun Sen. Police announced Monday that Cho was arrested
on fraud charges. A spokesman with Hyundai Motor, the nation's
largest carmaker, said, "It is true that companies are focused on
developing hybrid cars that run on alternative fuels due to
sky-high oil prices. An engine is being developed that runs on
hydrogen fuel extracted from petroleum, but it is still in its
early stage of development.¡± He added there had been ¡°no
research whatever into an air-powered car.
( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jeff,
I've had similar issues with my Orbitals. I find that checking the batteries
with no-load does NOT work. In my car I just turn on the heater and check the
batteries then. Even the ~ 15 amp load of the heater is plenty to show which
battery or batteries is weak.
Also, 5kWh for 13 miles seems very high to me.
How many cycles do you have on the Orbitals?
Cold weather can also have a big effect. Do you heat the batteries?
Regards,
Chris Brune
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> got a bad one in there, get a load tester and see which one(s) sag under
> load, test one at a time
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 10:57 PM
> Subject: Definitly something wrong
>
>
> > My EV is haveing some battery problems.
> > Range is down to 13 miles The voltage sags terribly after 10 miles(as
> > low as 230V during light acceleration) but I only use 5kwh for the 13
> > miles, that has not changed.
> >
> > 24 orbitals is over 9kwh at 1hr rate. and 80% of that is 7.8kwh So I
> > should be well below 80% DOD.
> >
> > In the last mile on the way home a week ago I smelled a hint of
> > something and was concerned.
> > Now when I was 3 miles from home I smelled a definite, more noticeable
> > smell; an AGM is venting.
> > When I get home, the voltage immediately jumps back to 289V. I check and
> > all the voltages of the bats that I could reach and they were all 12.07
> >
> > There has been a sudden drop in capacity and I was attributing it to
> > cold weather, but now I am not so sure.
> >
> >
> > I have lots of questions:
> > Is my pack murdered? or just cold (and being pushed to hard)
> > Could it be just one bad battery?
> > Would buying a load tester and check them after I charge them be the
> > best way to look for a bad battery?
> >
> > If I decide to switch to BB600 nicads, how do I set up the PFC to charge
> > automatically and safely while I am asleep? I think someone said it is
> > hard to detect end of charge.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After you drive it to this point do you have an electric heater you could use
to load the pack while you check individual voltages? It could be that most of
the batteries are OK and you have 1 or 2 hitting zero. This will shut the
current down and prevent you going further. With the light load on the pack
you'll be able to readily differentiate the stinkers. After the next charge
put a 12V charger on each of the stinkers and give them a finish charge and
even a slight equalization charge at about 1A for a couple hours. If these
batteries got imbalanced lower than the rest then they are also not getting to
full charge because the better ones are getting to a "higher than regulation"
voltage before the stinkers can catch up. Finish charge and equalize them
independantly. This wil begin to get tedious as I'll explain in my story which
sounds just like yours. Except I can't seem to get a direct post to make it to
the list. 'been trying for two days now.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 7:58 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Definitly something wrong
>
>
> My EV is haveing some battery problems.
> Range is down to 13 miles The voltage sags terribly after 10 miles(as
> low as 230V during light acceleration) but I only use 5kwh for the 13
> miles, that has not changed.
>
> 24 orbitals is over 9kwh at 1hr rate. and 80% of that is 7.8kwh So I
> should be well below 80% DOD.
>
> In the last mile on the way home a week ago I smelled a hint of
> something and was concerned.
> Now when I was 3 miles from home I smelled a definite, more noticeable
> smell; an AGM is venting.
> When I get home, the voltage immediately jumps back to 289V. I check and
> all the voltages of the bats that I could reach and they were all 12.07
>
> There has been a sudden drop in capacity and I was attributing it to
> cold weather, but now I am not so sure.
>
>
> I have lots of questions:
> Is my pack murdered? or just cold (and being pushed to hard)
> Could it be just one bad battery?
> Would buying a load tester and check them after I charge them be the
> best way to look for a bad battery?
>
> If I decide to switch to BB600 nicads, how do I set up the PFC to charge
> automatically and safely while I am asleep? I think someone said it is
> hard to detect end of charge.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My newly rebuilt motor arrived yesterday from Jim Husted. $DEITY, it's
beautiful! Copper is so shiny. I can barely wait to get it installed
and cruising again. (First I have to get the batteries charged, the
assembly with flywheel reduced and balanced, and the paint job done,
though.)
Jim sure packed it a lot smaller than I did. And it survived the trip
with no problems. He even threw in a nice little towel. (You need that
back, Jim?)
I just wanted to post a public thanks for his hard work. I believe it
is attracting a well-deserved reputation for quality.
Thanks, Jim!
Jude Anthony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So, while waiting for my motor, I've been investigating ways to prevent
the next blowup. There's little I can do about idiotic down-shifting,
but I'd like to at least avoid blowing up the motor from overzealous
acceleration. That means I need a rev limiter.
Unfortunately, EVParts no longer carries a rev limiter. I've been
examining them online, and I even stopped by the local Harley factory to
see what I could find. Everything I've seen talks about "spark
suppression" and "smooth deceleration". I don't want smooth
deceleration. I want definitive loss of power until the RPM goes down.
I'm running 144V to an ADC 9" through (groan) a Curtis 1231C.
Anybody know where I can find a rev limiter that will work with my EV?
Thanks,
Jude Anthony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the suggestion.
But, as I understand it all SepEx and shunt wound motors are unique.
Depending on the impedance of the armature and field, the response may vary
significantly from motor to motor with the same controller. So, even an "off
the shelf" 72 V controller may very well not work for this particular motor.
Plus, 72 V in that car is a far cry from a drivable EV.
I think for this one, its either fix the controller in the car or change the
motor. That's potentailly a lot of money and work. I have to question if it
is worth it. I'd say at least $5k in parts + 40 hrs labor to rebuild the drive
system as series wound. I sure don't want to take that risk, knowing that I
already have and lost a lot of money on 4 other EVs. It's much better to buy
something "turn key" even if it is old, rusty, and had 150k miles. At least
you know it works ...
Steve
David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Curtis used to make, and I assume still makes a 72 V sepex controller -- you
could drop the voltage to 72 V and do that.
----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Powers
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 5:40:47 PM
Subject: Rabbit EV available
There is a Rabbit EV on E-bay right now, ending Saturday night that I was
planning to buy.
1979 Other Makes : Volkswagen Rabbit Electric Car Item number: 140060416080
So, if I was planning to buy it, why and I tipping all of you off to it? Well,
I've been talking to the guy who owns it for the past several days trying to
get an idea of its condition etc. He has been trying to get it into a working
order to get some more money for it. But, it seems after all that the
controller is not working, and the car will not go.
It is a DC shunt wound, 108 V system. No replacement controller is available
anywhere. So, the options are to fix what it has, build a custom controller, or
changeover to a series motor and a series controller. The last option basically
consists of using it as a chasis and starting from scratch.
Benefits of the car:
1979 Rabbit with ultra low miles.
Stored many years inside (in a museum) - super clean
Supposedly worked when parked (but batteries removed). When batteries were put
back in, it did not work. Several attempts were made, but it just plain will
not go.
Has beefed up suspension.
The bad:
controller is in-op, no way to just go out and buy a replacement
it has been sitting for a very long time
it may need work from sitting - brakes, etc.
the charger is 108 V, old technology
the battery box looks like a poor design, but I've not see it in person.
The car is only 105 miles from my house, so I was going to look at it, but when
we couldn't get it running by talking over the phone, I realized it may be more
of a project than I want right now. I am not a fan of shunt wound motors or 30
years old museum cars (been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and "lost my
shirt" $$$ in the process. I don't have time to do another project like that.
It could be relatively easy, but don't bank on it firing right up.
He tried different voltage packs between 72 and 120. The car now has 10 x 12 V
batteries out of an electric bus. It still does not run. It also may not have
any fluids (i.e. brake fluid). That may require a complete brake system
rebuild, or maybe not.
He also has an AC motor and controller that he is willing to sell seperately. I
think his plan was to convert the car to AC. He said he would let the parts go
relatively cheap.
So, given all this, and the risk associated with that old of a car and no way
to get an appropriate controller without custom building it, I am going to pass
on the deal. I hope it ends up going to a good home. Maybe someone on the list.
Just FYI, this is not the same car that my friend Jim asked for help with. That
one is a 74 EVA Metro, which also just happens to have the same problem - odd
ball shunt wound motor with inop controller and no way to get an off the shelf
replacement. Things are going slow getting that car to work, so I am cautious
about starting another one with the same issues.
On a high point, the Rabbit does still have parts available for the chasis, and
may be very similar to Mr. Sharkey's very well documented car. But, who can be
sure and that is a lot of money to chance on a maybe.
http://www.mrsharkey.com/rabbit.htm
http://www.mrsharkey.com/SCT/index.html
I'm open to any comments or suggestions.
Also, BTW, the car has no title because it is here in GA and more than 20 years
old, we don't title them. That could be a big issue for someone.
Steve
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW, the Curtis Sepex manual claims the controller is adjustable for all kinds
of motors.
----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2006 3:11:29 AM
Subject: Re: Rabbit EV available
Thanks for the suggestion.
But, as I understand it all SepEx and shunt wound motors are unique.
Depending on the impedance of the armature and field, the response may vary
significantly from motor to motor with the same controller. So, even an "off
the shelf" 72 V controller may very well not work for this particular motor.
Plus, 72 V in that car is a far cry from a drivable EV.
I think for this one, its either fix the controller in the car or change the
motor. That's potentailly a lot of money and work. I have to question if it
is worth it. I'd say at least $5k in parts + 40 hrs labor to rebuild the drive
system as series wound. I sure don't want to take that risk, knowing that I
already have and lost a lot of money on 4 other EVs. It's much better to buy
something "turn key" even if it is old, rusty, and had 150k miles. At least
you know it works ...
Steve
David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Curtis used to make, and I assume still makes a 72 V sepex controller -- you
could drop the voltage to 72 V and do that.
----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Powers
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 5:40:47 PM
Subject: Rabbit EV available
There is a Rabbit EV on E-bay right now, ending Saturday night that I was
planning to buy.
1979 Other Makes : Volkswagen Rabbit Electric Car Item number: 140060416080
So, if I was planning to buy it, why and I tipping all of you off to it? Well,
I've been talking to the guy who owns it for the past several days trying to
get an idea of its condition etc. He has been trying to get it into a working
order to get some more money for it. But, it seems after all that the
controller is not working, and the car will not go.
It is a DC shunt wound, 108 V system. No replacement controller is available
anywhere. So, the options are to fix what it has, build a custom controller, or
changeover to a series motor and a series controller. The last option basically
consists of using it as a chasis and starting from scratch.
Benefits of the car:
1979 Rabbit with ultra low miles.
Stored many years inside (in a museum) - super clean
Supposedly worked when parked (but batteries removed). When batteries were put
back in, it did not work. Several attempts were made, but it just plain will
not go.
Has beefed up suspension.
The bad:
controller is in-op, no way to just go out and buy a replacement
it has been sitting for a very long time
it may need work from sitting - brakes, etc.
the charger is 108 V, old technology
the battery box looks like a poor design, but I've not see it in person.
The car is only 105 miles from my house, so I was going to look at it, but when
we couldn't get it running by talking over the phone, I realized it may be more
of a project than I want right now. I am not a fan of shunt wound motors or 30
years old museum cars (been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and "lost my
shirt" $$$ in the process. I don't have time to do another project like that.
It could be relatively easy, but don't bank on it firing right up.
He tried different voltage packs between 72 and 120. The car now has 10 x 12 V
batteries out of an electric bus. It still does not run. It also may not have
any fluids (i.e. brake fluid). That may require a complete brake system
rebuild, or maybe not.
He also has an AC motor and controller that he is willing to sell seperately. I
think his plan was to convert the car to AC. He said he would let the parts go
relatively cheap.
So, given all this, and the risk associated with that old of a car and no way
to get an appropriate controller without custom building it, I am going to pass
on the deal. I hope it ends up going to a good home. Maybe someone on the list.
Just FYI, this is not the same car that my friend Jim asked for help with. That
one is a 74 EVA Metro, which also just happens to have the same problem - odd
ball shunt wound motor with inop controller and no way to get an off the shelf
replacement. Things are going slow getting that car to work, so I am cautious
about starting another one with the same issues.
On a high point, the Rabbit does still have parts available for the chasis, and
may be very similar to Mr. Sharkey's very well documented car. But, who can be
sure and that is a lot of money to chance on a maybe.
http://www.mrsharkey.com/rabbit.htm
http://www.mrsharkey.com/SCT/index.html
I'm open to any comments or suggestions.
Also, BTW, the car has no title because it is here in GA and more than 20 years
old, we don't title them. That could be a big issue for someone.
Steve
---------------------------------
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____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
