EV Digest 6206
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Acceleration Sim Problem
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Petition to support the development of battery, hybrid and fuel cell
electric vehicles
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Petition to support the development of battery, hybrid and fuel
cell electric vehicles
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Good EV wiring Diagram
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EV conversion candidates
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV conversion candidates
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV conversion candidates
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Petition to support the development of battery, hybrid and fuel cell
electric vehicles
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV conversion candidates
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Pictures from Alternative Car Expo in Santa Monica
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Pictures from Alternative Car Expo in Santa Monica
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV conversion candidates
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Determining the value of some AC motors / controllers RFE
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV conversion candidates
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Determining the value of some AC motors / controllers RFE
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Determining the value of some AC motors / controllers RFE
by "Sean Korb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Wrong motor direction for Joe Sixpack Geo Metro EV
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Wrong motor direction for Joe Sixpack Geo Metro EV
by "Darin - MetroMPG.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Electric Lincolns .....WAS Determining the value of some AC motors /
controllers RFE
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV conversion candidates
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV conversion candidates
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV conversion candidates
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Firefly Batteries for Sale?
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Electric Car Motor on Google
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Phillip, that is not the purpose of the software. If you take a look at the
software, you input the torque or power curve from measured graphs. This
will already take into account motor, controller and batteries (at full
charge).
Do you have a better alternative?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Phil Marino
Sent: December 10, 2006 6:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Acceleration Sim Problem
>From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Acceleration Sim Problem
>Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 09:49:29 -0800
>
>I gave up on my acceleration spreadsheet, and now use CarTest2000.
>Much more versatile and accurate.
>
>
>
The hard part is characterizing the controller, motor, and batteries, so
that you can calculate the right torque at a given RPM.
It seems unlikely,to me, that CarTest2000 would do this, especially for the
variety of motors, batteries, and controllers available.
ISo, if you have to do this yourself anyway, what does CarTest2000
contribute?
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces
friends module.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spa
ces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I stand corrected and realize I did not choose my words well. I should
have said that fuel cell vehicles use an electric motor for propulsion. They
just use an inefficient method of supplying the electricity. You stated
that: "Unlike true electric cars, their source of energy is not electricity
from the grid ( or elsewhere) but whatever hydrocarbon fuel they use." Much
electricity from the grid is produced from burning hydrocarbons. I hope you
do not consider these BEVs not true electric cars.
On another point, I often point out to people here in the Northwest that
our Ferries are hybrids propelled by electric motors and the diesel engine
supplies the electricity. You would not believe the amount of people who are
surprised by this and had never heard of it.
Roderick Wilde
PS: I still think the petition is a step in the right direction. If you
would like to start a world wide petition yourself for pure battery
electrics, especially ones refueled by renewable resources, I would be more
than happy to support it. There is not one single fuel source on this planet
with the energy density of oil which will replace all of the energy needs of
the future. We are going to need everything we can including biofuels.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: Petition to support the development of battery, hybrid and fuel
cell electri
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Petition to support the development of battery, hybrid and fuel
cell electric vehicles
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 13:01:26 -0800
I figured since we all happen to be stuck here on the same planet, and
the EV List is open to the entire world, some of you might like to know
about this European petition that all interested parties may sign on to.
One of the organizations supporting this petition does also support
hydrogen fuel cell vehicles besides electric vehicles and hybrids. I hope
in light of recent posts here you won't let that stop you from signing.
After all they ARE electric powered vehicles.
To me, fuel cell powered cars ( whether the fuel is hydrogen, alcohol, or
some other hydrocarbon fuel, are not electric vehicles.
Unlike true electric cars, their source of energy is not electricity from
the grid ( or elsewhere) but whatever hydrocarbon fuel they use.
Similarly, I would not call an unpluggable series hybrid car an electric
powered vehicle, just because it uses electricity to transfer power between
the fossil fuel ICE engine and the electric motor.
Like a fuel cell car, an unpluggable series hybrid uses hydrocarbon fuel as
its sole energy source and uses electricity as a way to transfer power.
Would you also call one of these an electric vehicle?
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes - enter the Microsoft Office Live
Sweepstakes http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 12/9/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 12/9/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AFAIK most or all locomotive engines in the USA are diesel-electric
"hybrids" and have been so for decades.
Actually I don't totally understand the system. I don't think they use
any battery storage, rather, the use of electricity takes the place of a
difficult transmission system.
Danny
Roderick Wilde wrote:
On another point, I often point out to people here in the Northwest
that our Ferries are hybrids propelled by electric motors and the
diesel engine supplies the electricity. You would not believe the
amount of people who are surprised by this and had never heard of it.
Roderick Wilde
PS: I still think the petition is a step in the right direction. If
you would like to start a world wide petition yourself for pure
battery electrics, especially ones refueled by renewable resources, I
would be more than happy to support it. There is not one single fuel
source on this planet with the energy density of oil which will
replace all of the energy needs of the future. We are going to need
everything we can including biofuels.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That PDF file at the bottom is the best EV diagram i have ever seen. It also
uses the same components that i am going to use!
From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV wiring
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 22:13:18 -0500
Thanks for mentioning that Rush, I sent a reply the other day but
apparently if never made it through to the list.
I would also recommend checking out Don Cameron's page. He has some
diagrams inter-sperced throughout his site along with tons of good
information including reasoned and easy to follow of discussions about the
benefits and drawbacks of various components he used in his decision making
process.
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
On Saturday, December 9, 2006, at 08:31 PM, Rush wrote:
Tim wrote -
Does anyone have a very descriptive and easy to follow EV wiring diagram?
It
would be great if it included all the major components including saftey
devices.
John just put up a page that has a good schematic of what is going into
his EV -
For those still following, I created an updated version of my diagram
based on input and suggestions from the list and posted it on my
webpage.
Since there were requests, I also posted links to download the
omnigraffle file and a stencil with some EV useful shapes I used.
The revised pdf is at
http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/EVDiagram2.pdf
Check it out, it is pretty complete.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
_________________________________________________________________
Download now! Visit http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/ to enter and see
how cool it is to get Messenger with you on your cell phone.
http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone i was wondering if anyone had any good donor conversion car
ideas for me that would be easy and cheap. The ideal car would be able to
fit a 9 inch ADC motor 13 optima yellow tops(55 amp/h) and zilla 1k into the
smallest lightest car possible. It would be good if the car also did not
have power steering requirements to make it simpler.
_________________________________________________________________
Enter the "Telus Mobility Xbox a Day" contest for your chance to WIN! Telus
Mobility is giving away an Microsoft Xbox® 360 every day from November 20 to
December 31, 2006! Just download Windows Live (MSN) Messenger to your
IM-capable TELUS mobile phone, and you could be a winner!
http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
VW Karmann Ghia. Or Porsche 914. Or Datsun 1200. Basically, any
surviving 30-year-old small car.
VW kit cars have a lot of potential, too.
One of the first things I learned from the EV List is to convert a car
that you like. That's why I didn't convert a small pickup.
On Dec 10, 2006, at 9:58 PM, Tim Gamber wrote:
Hi everyone i was wondering if anyone had any good donor conversion
car ideas for me that would be easy and cheap. The ideal car would be
able to fit a 9 inch ADC motor 13 optima yellow tops(55 amp/h) and
zilla 1k into the smallest lightest car possible. It would be good if
the car also did not have power steering requirements to make it
simpler.
_________________________________________________________________
Enter the "Telus Mobility Xbox a Day" contest for your chance to WIN!
Telus Mobility is giving away an Microsoft Xbox® 360 every day from
November 20 to December 31, 2006! Just download Windows Live (MSN)
Messenger to your IM-capable TELUS mobile phone, and you could be a
winner! http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<Subject: EV conversion candidates>>>
It looks like I have a line on a very nice 1972 VW van. Four-speed standard
gearbox, bone stock essentially, with a rust-free body. What would be
recommended for a basic conversion? I don't have to get every last MPH or mile
of range out of it. This will be a
an around town vehicle that will be used in bad weather or to haul big items.
My average day seems to run 15 to 25 miles. I'd like it to be freeway capible
(up to 50mph or so) witha 50 mile range. No majot hills in our town (Colorado
Springs).
Bye the way, the three wheeler crossed 800 miles a few days ago. Works well
after "cold soaking" in single digit temps here.
Thanks
Matt Parkhouse
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free
AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
transmission, yep, they have to have incredible starting torque
and an electric motor's starting torque beats any gas or diesel engine
can you imagine trying to use a clutch on a train? engineer grinding gears,
hehe
having to replace it every day...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: Petition to support the development of battery, hybrid and fuel
cell electric vehicles
AFAIK most or all locomotive engines in the USA are diesel-electric
"hybrids" and have been so for decades.
Actually I don't totally understand the system. I don't think they use
any battery storage, rather, the use of electricity takes the place of a
difficult transmission system.
Danny
Roderick Wilde wrote:
On another point, I often point out to people here in the Northwest that
our Ferries are hybrids propelled by electric motors and the diesel
engine supplies the electricity. You would not believe the amount of
people who are surprised by this and had never heard of it.
Roderick Wilde
PS: I still think the petition is a step in the right direction. If you
would like to start a world wide petition yourself for pure battery
electrics, especially ones refueled by renewable resources, I would be
more than happy to support it. There is not one single fuel source on
this planet with the energy density of oil which will replace all of the
energy needs of the future. We are going to need everything we can
including biofuels.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
VW Kitcar. Gliders weigh ~1200-1300 lbs, manual brakes(upgradable to
disc) and steering.
> Hi everyone i was wondering if anyone had any good donor conversion car
> ideas for me that would be easy and cheap. The ideal car would be able to
> fit a 9 inch ADC motor 13 optima yellow tops(55 amp/h) and zilla 1k into
> the
> smallest lightest car possible. It would be good if the car also did not
> have power steering requirements to make it simpler.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Enter the "Telus Mobility Xbox a Day" contest for your chance to WIN!
> Telus
> Mobility is giving away an Microsoft Xbox® 360 every day from November 20
> to
> December 31, 2006! Just download Windows Live (MSN) Messenger to your
> IM-capable TELUS mobile phone, and you could be a winner!
> http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I went to the Alternative Car Expo held in Santa Monica this weekend.
Some pictures can be found here: www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Peter for putting the pictures up for everyone to see. Looks
like it was a nice show.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For me, the Ford Festiva 88 - 93. Manual everything - pleanty of room in there
for even a 9" motor. Only weighs 1800 lb as-is. Hard to find a decent one
these days though...
See my car in the EV Album (for all the lessons that I learned, like don't
expect to get by with a $150 chasis).
Steve
Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
VW Kitcar. Gliders weigh ~1200-1300 lbs, manual brakes(upgradable to
disc) and steering.
> Hi everyone i was wondering if anyone had any good donor conversion car
> ideas for me that would be easy and cheap. The ideal car would be able to
> fit a 9 inch ADC motor 13 optima yellow tops(55 amp/h) and zilla 1k into
> the
> smallest lightest car possible. It would be good if the car also did not
> have power steering requirements to make it simpler.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Enter the "Telus Mobility Xbox a Day" contest for your chance to WIN!
> Telus
> Mobility is giving away an Microsoft Xbox® 360 every day from November 20
> to
> December 31, 2006! Just download Windows Live (MSN) Messenger to your
> IM-capable TELUS mobile phone, and you could be a winner!
> http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep. The motor is huge.
234 lb
13.5" diameter
17.5" length
It "may" fit in a pickup or a big car. Then, you need a minimum of 18 x 12 V
to run it up to a maximum 26 x 12 V. I'd say put it in an old vintage VW bug
and hang it off the back - there is pleanty of open space behind the car. But,
where in the world can you fit a minimum of 18 batts in one of those? The
length would almost fit in my old Festiva project, but I'm almost positive the
diameter would hit the CV joints (I think 11" is the biggest that would fit).
For $2k (for a motor + controller set), is it worth a chance? You can't even
get an 8" ADC and Curtis for that ... now, that's a good price if it works.
The big issue is if it works ... He's got 10 + sets of these removed from some
buses to sell, so someone could take a chance on it. If if works, you could
build 10 low priced AC EV's. I'm sure those would sell for a good amount of
$$$. I'd sure like to get one in a light weight car - but old VW is the only
place I can even come up where it might fit.
I'm just a guy trying to help another EV guy. I don't know anything about
these AC parts. I'm strictly a series DC guy, but I know someone will find the
parts useful, and I just hate to see them sitting in someone's storage unit
unused. I'm passing along info if anyone is interested.
Steve
Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
These would be too big and heavy for a car, but they might work find for a
truck. When I looked at this for the new Beetle, this motor was too large
and not a great power to weight ratio. Electro auto sells the AC55 for
$1300 and the UMOC445TF controller (I think now replaced by the DM0C455)
used to sell for $2100. Note: make sure the interface kit is included in
the purchase. It sold for $1455. So the total (new) for this setup would
be $4855.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Powers
Sent: December 10, 2006 2:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Determining the value of some AC motors / controllers RFE
There is a guy local here who has several sets of motors / controllers
removed from equipment. They are AC55 motors and UMOC445TF controllers. AC
drive system 38 kW cont, 78 kW peak. Looks like from the data sheet that
they would be good for a small car. He wants to sell them, and seems
motivated to move them quick. It could be a good bargin for someone.
Anyone doing a conversion right now and want to get in on one of these RFE
drivetrains? I mentioned that he should try to sell one first at a reduced
price and have someone install it in a car and see how well it works. If it
works well, he can ask more for the rest. These came out of a bus, not a
car, so I don't know how well they will work in a car.
I have no idea what they are worth, so make an offer and I'll see what he
says. There is awlays e-bay, but I don't think he wants to go that route
and answer the 50 questions / day ...
Steve
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Matt. there are several in the ev album at www.evalbum.com. Ben Graves'
is probably the nicest looking. That'll get you a good idea of where the
batteries can be placed, and what different systems will do.
These have been discussed as good candidates, as they have a high GVWR and are
light and roomy (relative to their size, of course). Not very aerodynamic, but
you probably knew that.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It looks like I have a line on a very nice 1972 VW van. Four-speed standard
gearbox, bone stock essentially, with a rust-free body. What would be
recommended for a basic conversion? I don't have to get every last MPH or mile
of range out of it. This will be a
an around town vehicle that will be used in bad weather or to haul big items.
My average day seems to run 15 to 25 miles. I'd like it to be freeway capible
(up to 50mph or so) witha 50 mile range. No majot hills in our town (Colorado
Springs).
____________________________________________________________________________________
Have a burning question?
Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds perfect for my Silverado conversion. Unfortunately I'm not finished with
my first EV and I
still need it operational. The truck is still young, only 6 years old and
150,000 miles. Runs
great but I'd still like to convert it. Some day.
Dave Cover
--- Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yep. The motor is huge.
>
> 234 lb
> 13.5" diameter
> 17.5" length
>
> It "may" fit in a pickup or a big car. Then, you need a minimum of 18 x 12
> V to run it up to
> a maximum 26 x 12 V. I'd say put it in an old vintage VW bug and hang it off
> the back - there
> is pleanty of open space behind the car. But, where in the world can you fit
> a minimum of 18
> batts in one of those? The length would almost fit in my old Festiva
> project, but I'm almost
> positive the diameter would hit the CV joints (I think 11" is the biggest
> that would fit).
>
> For $2k (for a motor + controller set), is it worth a chance? You can't
> even get an 8" ADC
> and Curtis for that ... now, that's a good price if it works. The big issue
> is if it works ...
> He's got 10 + sets of these removed from some buses to sell, so someone could
> take a chance on
> it. If if works, you could build 10 low priced AC EV's. I'm sure those
> would sell for a good
> amount of $$$. I'd sure like to get one in a light weight car - but old VW
> is the only place I
> can even come up where it might fit.
>
> I'm just a guy trying to help another EV guy. I don't know anything about
> these AC parts.
> I'm strictly a series DC guy, but I know someone will find the parts useful,
> and I just hate to
> see them sitting in someone's storage unit unused. I'm passing along info if
> anyone is
> interested.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> These would be too big and heavy for a car, but they might work find for a
> truck. When I looked at this for the new Beetle, this motor was too large
> and not a great power to weight ratio. Electro auto sells the AC55 for
> $1300 and the UMOC445TF controller (I think now replaced by the DM0C455)
> used to sell for $2100. Note: make sure the interface kit is included in
> the purchase. It sold for $1455. So the total (new) for this setup would
> be $4855.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
> man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
> belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
> dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
> again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
> but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
> for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
> achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
> daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
> souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Steve Powers
> Sent: December 10, 2006 2:05 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Determining the value of some AC motors / controllers RFE
>
> There is a guy local here who has several sets of motors / controllers
> removed from equipment. They are AC55 motors and UMOC445TF controllers. AC
> drive system 38 kW cont, 78 kW peak. Looks like from the data sheet that
> they would be good for a small car. He wants to sell them, and seems
> motivated to move them quick. It could be a good bargin for someone.
> Anyone doing a conversion right now and want to get in on one of these RFE
> drivetrains? I mentioned that he should try to sell one first at a reduced
> price and have someone install it in a car and see how well it works. If it
> works well, he can ask more for the rest. These came out of a bus, not a
> car, so I don't know how well they will work in a car.
>
> I have no idea what they are worth, so make an offer and I'll see what he
> says. There is awlays e-bay, but I don't think he wants to go that route
> and answer the 50 questions / day ...
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 12/11/06, Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yep. The motor is huge.
234 lb
13.5" diameter
17.5" length
It "may" fit in a pickup or a big car. Then, you need a minimum of 18 x
12 V to run it up to a maximum 26 x 12 V. I'd say put it in an old vintage
VW bug and hang it off the back - there is pleanty of open space behind the
car. But, where in the world can you fit a minimum of 18 batts in one of
those? The length would almost fit in my old Festiva project, but I'm
almost positive the diameter would hit the CV joints (I think 11" is the
biggest that would fit).
Anyone got a business plan for an electric limo service? It might go over
well in San Fran or Boston or a college town with affluent baby boomers
(like Raleigh-Durham). I think an electric Lincoln would be boss!
--
Sean Korb [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.spkorb.org
'65, '68 Mustangs, '68 Cougar, '78 R100/7, '71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Darin
> No problem, we thought, we'll just take apart the
> motor and reverse the
> field connections inside. This we did, and the
> motor now goes the
> "right" way.
Okay first off those pics you linked me to tell me
what motor you're using. I know them but haven't seen
one in over a decade 8^)
Now I'm not sure what you mean by reversing the field
connection. Did you mess with the field coils or just
reverse the brush leads?? I'm guessing you just
reversed the leads to the opposit holders. What I'd
need to see is the holders and where they are in
repect to the pole shoe bolt heads. Feel free to
contact me off list to see where you guys are at on
this. Sorry but I still need more info to properly
add input.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim -
Okay first off those pics you linked me to tell me
what motor you're using. I know them but haven't seen
one in over a decade 8^)
Yeah, they came out of a forklift made sometime in the early 80's.
reversed the leads to the opposit holders. What I'd
need to see is the holders and where they are in
repect to the pole shoe bolt heads.
I'm going to get some more pics today that'll better help me explain
what we did to reverse the field. Show 'n' tell.
I'll post back later on.
Thanks -
Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Sean an' EVerybody;
Snip-a-bit!
> Anyone got a business plan for an electric limo service? It might go
over
> well in San Fran or Boston or a college town with affluent baby boomers
> (like Raleigh-Durham). I think an electric Lincoln would be boss!
> I have often thought of a E limo myself. Hell! They have PLENTY of room
for batteries! Well, I was thinking of the Town Car type thing. A limo
version of the Red Beastie concept. Red Beastie was a Pickup that John
Wayland built up to prove a point; A 100 MPC Electric with Led Acid
barreries was do-able. He stuffed 40 Yup! FORTY! T 105's Not T 145's which I
would think woulda done better?In a Toyota 90's era pickup. A rather beefy
chassis one. Maybe JW is copying the mail and can say WHAT model, but we are
talking of a 2400 lb battery load! I guess that Beastie was at least a one
ton truck?He DID have air springs/shocks in back. In looking back I wished I
had cut away the body and saved the chassis, as it survived the catastropic
fire after the Famous Runaway Dumptruck Crash/Fire that wiped out Tony
Ascrizzi's garage and almost, house, too.
But to try to get back to the point: Beastie ran up some impressive
range runs. PDX to Seattle, a bit of a trip, like NYC to Wash. or Boston,
for you Least Coast Fans. But, dispite the trux's crappy aero dynamics,it
was sheer amp hours. He ran the battery packs in 120 volt parallel mode. Boy
it woulda gone like HELL in 240 volt mode?But it woulda fireballed the
motor, a stock 9" ADC!Asking it to pull locomotive -like weight, fast. Would
have been fun to drive while it lasted!But as a truck it was maxed out with
no cargo aboard, but it was a great tow vehicle, John used it to tow Zombie
and the Heavy Garden Mettle Tracter to the races!!So. IF I had deeper
pockets and wanted to spend zillions of bux to just buy 40 T 145's they are
hidiously expensive these daze!OK ,settle for T 125's OK, EVen T 105's A
Lincoln is a hellova lot more streemlined than a pickup, cavernous trunk,
big engineroom with the hugh ICE gone. You could stuff 40 batteri aboard?, A
Transwarp 11 " motor, EVen direct drive. It isn't gunna be a Zombie
beater!But I think it would scoot right along with a low rear end
ratio?Ford, 9" Keep your Ford ALL Ford. The beefier springs, brakes, you
could get from a Limo builder, those Town Cars that are half a block long?
THEY weigh more than 40 battery's extra in a stock Lincoln.Think ya would
need an other motor to run all the OTHER stuff on board, though?PS/PB A/C
all that nonsence? Keeping the Jacusi warm<g>!?
"Yu're gunna drive me to drinkin' If you don't stop drivin' that Five Ton
Lincoln!!"Hmmm? A song, too?
My two Tons worth. How much does a Lincoln Town Car weigh anyhow?
Bob
> "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
Yeah! Look what it has done to the American People, and politicks!!
> "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
>
But the surfing is fun!!
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 12/9/06
>
> I guess?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 12:35 AM
Subject: Re: EV conversion candidates
>
>
>
>
> <<<Subject: EV conversion candidates>>>
>
>
> It looks like I have a line on a very nice 1972 VW van. Four-speed
standard gearbox, bone stock essentially, with a rust-free body. What would
be recommended for a basic conversion? I don't have to get every last MPH or
mile of range out of it. This will be a
> an around town vehicle that will be used in bad weather or to haul big
items. My average day seems to run 15 to 25 miles. I'd like it to be
freeway capible (up to 50mph or so) witha 50 mile range. No majot hills in
our town (Colorado Springs).
>
> Bye the way, the three wheeler crossed 800 miles a few days ago. Works
well after "cold soaking" in single digit temps here.
>
>
> Thanks
> Matt Parkhouse
> Hi Matt;
V-Dub Vans are good candidates for conversion. One of the Great Clean Car
Race back in the early 70's runners, Cal Tech, was a VW. They have a decent
carrying capacity. They were running about a ton of batteries. A bit of
overkill, but the stout VW made the transcon with out problems.Should be
able to run 20 T 105's for decent range?
So if ya have a clean one, go for it! 9" Warp motor , keep your clutch
and tranny, Zilla controller, (is there anything ELSE<G>)?Pfc 20-30 charger
for starters.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11 Dec 2006 at 2:51, Steve Powers wrote:
> For me, the Ford Festiva 88 - 93. Hard to find a decent
> one these days though...
I don't know if it would be worth it, but maybe you could import one
directly - not as a car, but rather as used parts to upgrade an earlier
model, to avoid the hassle of adapting it to FMVSS and emissions standards.
Kia continued to build that car for the domestic market (as the Pride) until
about 2002 or so. I don't believe they made any dramatic changes in the
design over the years. The Pride was their entry level car - I seem to
recall that the 1.3 litre version with a carburetor (!) sold for well under
$5000. Until the SUVs pretty much buried them, these and Daewoo Ticos just
about ruled Korea's streets. You can still see them by the dozens, putting
around the country, many in very nice shape.
Too bad you can't still buy them new, or they might make decent gliders for
a conversion company.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim,
I suggest that you also look at a truck conversion. A truck has the
room for 9" motor.
Yes, a truck is less aerodynamic than a sedan, but light trucks
have the suspension and brakes to handle the added weight of the EV
conversion. Sedan's suspension and brakes usually have to be beefed
up to handle the added weight.
A light truck has plenty of room for the pack to be centrally
located in the center of the vehicle (either inside or under the
truck bed).
There are plenty of donor trucks out there, so the price should be
comparable and plenty of replacement parts for the future.
I suggest you also look at http://evalbum.com for all the light
truck EV conversions.
Please keep the EV List aware of your EV conversion project
progress.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I asked a Mil Ovan, VP, at the EDTA in D.C. about availability - looks like
their first release, for some Husquevarna (sp?) lawn tractors, equipment,
etc. will be out this Spring maybe, but a 2nd
version of the battery, probably what they are developing for the military,
will be used and tested (i orginally wrote 'out' but not accurate since not
likely it will be 'out' in the sense that people like us could get any). My
brother Dana, www.myersmotors.com, has been asking Firefly the same thing,
and it looks like no one should expect any commercial Firefly battery
options for ev's for a while yet.
Maybe some EV'ers should band together at some point and try to get some
released, though at this point I suppose it makes sense for them to get as
much military money to help defray development expenses, test them, etc.
Lots of the battery presentations there (A123, some others) seem to be
interested in electric/hybrid transportation market, but need to prove their
approach, make some money first, in some other market first (home power
tools, etc.). I imagine all of them see themselves as supplying the next
hybrid battery, but it would be nice to see some affordable battery types,
such as Firefly's, in the hands of EV'ers sooner, rather than later.
I kind of wonder, similarly, about the Apollo guys who claim a $75/kWhr
lead cobalt batteries
(http://www.apolloenergysystems.com/) though I see Cobalt is supposed to
have risen in price a great deal lately (up 2.5x in 2003/2004 by someone's
statistic) and be found primarily in the Republic of Congo, probably not a
real bastion of free trade and democracy, I guess ... (I may be entirely
wrong), which is why some Li battery makers seem to be interested in using
Manganese rather than Cobalt in their Li Ion batteries - manganese
supposedly sourced from all over the world). Otherwise, I think Lb Cobalt
issupposed to be similarly pretty lightweight compared to lead acid, but the
$/kWhr doesn't seem too different from 6 volt golf cart 230 Ahr flooded
battery.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Gideon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 8:51 AM
Subject: Firefly Batteries for Sale?
I've seen the various internet articles on Firefly Batteries, an offshoot
of
Caterpillar Corp. The carbon foam technology looks very interesting.
Does
anyone know if they are actually for sale (any size) yet? Can anyone see
any "gottchas" that may be waiting downstream with this technology?
Alan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was in managing my bids on sponsored searches on Google this morning and I
came across an interesting fact. The search term for "electric car motor"
for the number one position is bid at $5.00 per click. The second place bids
are $.039, then $.038 and $.30. I found this disparity in bids quite
unusual. This add link goes to General Motors page trying to do damage
control over "Who Killed the Electric Car". Apparently that movie really got
on their nerves. Here is their link: www.onlygm.com Learn About What
Really Happened to GM's EV1 Electric Car Program.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 12/9/2006
--- End Message ---
